#Idk if i should mention Hari because i know their tag and i should be using it but i forgot anfnbf im sos orry Hari

[dxwnxdusk]

@qicixian @crossed-worlds @siixkiing

might as well post it here! it did quite the numbers on twt 💀

[golbatgender]

@thegreatjackal replied to your post

“By anti standards, any ship involving a vampire is necrophilia”

and it's likely pedophilia too

Vampires (and immortal/near-immortal characters) do raise some interesting (and almost entirely hypothetical) questions about establishing consent, but all those issues have to do with relative aging, which humans will never actually have to deal with in the real world unless we make contact with a sentient species with a vastly different lifespan/life stages cycle than ours, or if our own longevity technology advances to the point where some humans (or humanoid AIs with sexual capabilities and/or desires) end up living many times longer than their apparent age, but not others (because, you know, capitalism is like economic MRSA). If we ever do end up in such a situation, which will likely be a fairly sudden development if it does happen), it is probably best if we do already have several different fictional archetypes exploring these situations!

Eternal growth. The “vampire” (I’m just going to use this word as short for “immortal”) keeps developing normally after becoming immortal, and can be considered experientially and developmentally equivalent to a human of the same age, though at some point they stop (or dramatically slow) somatic aging. (In general. Otherwise you get the Struldbrugs.) This works just like any other human/mortal until the vampire outlives humans, or dramatically outlives apparent age. Two possible consent issues: Deception, where it might be considered dishonest (if mitigated by self-preservation, sometimes drastically) not to mention to one’s partner that one is actually several decades or centuries older than one appears; or Experience Gap, where the vampire’s long life (or species nature) essentially makes them into an ascended being that a mortal’s mind/experience can’t really compare to. I personally would say that as long as the mortal is an adult, such a relationship could work if the mortal is fully apprised of what’s going on, although it is higher risk. Adults can legally consent to risk. This is the basis of several entertainment and medical industries. Examples of ships with this type of vampire or immortal: The Doctor/Any human, Zeus/numerous mortal women, Henry/Abigail (Forever, 2014).

Subtype: Ancient child. An eternal-growth type vampire who is either permanently somatically “fixed” as a child, or whose somatic childhood has been dramatically extended while mostly or completely allowing adult faculties to develop (neoteny; might have fictional use in, for example, training a super-translator by extending the best language-learning period). An example of the first would be Claudia from Interview with the Vampire, and an example of the second would be the octospiders from Arthur C. Clarke’s Rama series (most of whom take puberty blockers in perpetuity, but still function as adults in their society). Any relationship with such a character would have to be evaluated based on context: whether the character is considered an adult or late adolescent in their society (as opposed to a child; i.e., whether such neoteny is common), whether their potential partner is from the same or a similarly neotenic culture or not, and, if the first two questions are “no,” whether the potential partner is attracted to them because they think they are a child or because they know the person and became attracted to them based on pre-established friendship or rivalry. (This one does, in fact, have some real-word implications currently, with regards to some trans people--as puberty blockers become more common--and to some kinds of disabilities.) If it’s a “ truly adult mind, child body, attraction is mostly based on interpersonal stuff,” you still might want to tag a fic as underage to be safe, but I’m pretty sure that’s at least almost in the “fine in real life” territory. IDK. I’m 99.99% likely never to be in that situation--I’m old enough that even if I were dating a trans person who’d been on puberty blockers, they’d almost certainly have switched to HRT before I ever met them, since the main use for puberty blockers is to delay onset of puberty until the age of majority when HRT is easier to get (and they don’t stop all growth, just puberty, anyway). It’s a fraught trope--and that’s why we should explore it in literature, because how else are we going to figure it out?

Eternal youth. The “vampire” remains mentally the same age as when they were turned, never maturing psychologically much beyond that (though experience may compensate to a degree). In fact, the “vampire” may even forget memories from before a certain amount of time (such as in the case of Ashildr|”Me,” Doctor Who Series 9), as part of this psychological growth limitation. Consent values in relationships depend on the age at turning; difficulties arise as the mortal partner ages past the immortal one. (For example, if such a vampire was turned at 15, and you were also 15, it wouldn’t be an issue, but then as you grew up, it would be, particularly if the vampire doesn’t legally, as opposed to physically, age. Less serious legally, but almost as much emotionally, if you got together at 30 and apparently-actually-30, and then you aged but your vampire partner stayed 30.) Examples not already given include Edward/Bella (before she’s turned as well), or human/android ships (such as Hari Seldon/Dors Venabili from the Foundation prequels).

Lifespan gap. Exactly what it sounds like, either due to species differences or technology (growth deceleration or acceleration), where either one character’s normal lifespan is much shorter (but with a similar distribution of life stages) than the other, or (often regardless of total lifespan) one character spends a much greater proportion of their life in a specific phase of development than the other. This is a very common sci-fi scenario; it doesn’t actually usually apply to vampires, except where vampires are actually a mortal, humanoid species with a much longer lifespan. Humans are actually pretty likely to be “causing the problem” in many of these scenarios, since we take such a large percentage of our average lifespan to grow up. (And, to complicate things, particularly with aliens who aren’t used to humans, we tend to develop secondary sexual characteristics while we’re still psychologically children. Considering how many problems that causes among humans who know what the fuck is going on, imagine how awkward it’s going to be with aliens who won’t.) Meanwhile, another sentient species might (hypothetically) take only five years to reach maturity and live for several hundred thereafter, or some similar ratio (such as Mass Effect’s Asari), or be born fully physically and psychologically mature (like tribbles, but sentient). Conversely, a sentient species might in equal probability have a lifespan of only a few years, but some of these years would be a fully adult stage (such as replicants, or Mass Effect’s Salarians). Or, particularly in dystopic settings, some members of one species may have vastly longer lifespans than other members of the same species (whether genetically or artificially), which may be proportional (as if, say, being born on February 29th actually did mean you would stay the same age for four years), or be the same in early life and diverge later (such as Homestuck’s Alternian Trolls). Basically, while the differences could have some emotional and logistic issues for long-term relationships, if both parties are capable of consent by their own species’ or sub-species’ metrics, it probably doesn’t deserve a major content warning for that alone. A short-term thing is certainly fine.

As a footnote, cryostasis or similar states aren’t generally considered aging. Possibly there’d be some issues with legal age (indeed, with being considered legally dead, in many such scenarios), but if such technologies were to become common or even extant, legal precedent for time spent is stasis not “counting” beyond what little aging might occur despite the tech would be established pretty quickly--if only so that no one could hop in a cryopod in a non-extradition country or secret location (because in the US, statutes of limitations get put “on hold” for any time outside the country, but if they can’t find the cryopod...) until a statute of limitations ran out.

This was not the thousand-plus words I meant to write tonight, I’ll tell you that. (I’d planned to work on a commission. I’ll still get to it.) But these are situations that come up a lot in fantasy and science fiction scenarios, and might come up someday in the real world if we ever encounter sentient aliens (or build fully sentient AI). And yes, it’s a controversial topic. That’s why we should explore the moral issues of sex with vampires and aliens with non-human aging stuff in fiction, so we have some idea of what to go on if it ever becomes an issue in real life. And that includes the “bad” stuff, and the “possibly-bad” stuff, because fiction is a simulation of a non-real event, where you can test what happens without anybody actually getting hurt. Which is at the very least a lot better than (should it ever be possible) testing it on real people (and real aliens/AIs) in real life!

(And as for the original hypothetical question the reply was in response to, attraction to vampires is not necrophilia. Particularly not modern vampires--Anne Rice and Stephanie Meyer have pretty much seen to that. But even if you prefer your vampires to be corpselike? Well, the reasons real necrophilia is bad is because corpses/their original owners can’t consent, and secondarily because it’s unhygienic (the main basis of general corpse taboos)--though like, I’m not going to aggressively stop someone from sticking raw ground beef up their everything, which is comparably unhygienic, so long as they’re aware of why it’s a bad idea and I don’t have to pay for or deal with the aftermath. So, in the hypothetical where vampires are real and can consent, go for it, just...research the risks first. Or have your characters do the same.)