#IVE FAILED BOTH THE PRINCE AND MY ROLE MODEL HOW COULD I DO THIS

[prosebushpatch]

Now that the bulk of the thesis is over im trying to go back into fan fic and I was brainstorming while watching Detective Pikachu and in my head im like, man what the last name i gave this nameless character. I cannot remember. I don’t think i ever gave him a last name. Guess I’ll get on it. And then I go to reread the first four chapters I wrote like ages ago and wouldn’t u believe hIS FULL NAME IS LITERALLY THE FIRST TWO WORDS IM AN IDIOT

[curiosity-killed]

Lang Qianqiu deserves more love goddammit: a post, unfortunately

This brought to you by the wonderful @veliseraptor & @/yuer on Twitter but also mostly out of spite and the fact that it’s preventing me from writing a very dumb poke-the-bear post abt the entire weird social media culture around The Minors

As always ✨SPOILERS!! SPOILERS EVERYWHERE✨

So first off: when I hit the scene where lqq confronts xl and screams “I will never be like you” I sat up in bed, did a little shimmy of delight, and hissed “fuck yes” at like 2 AM so. Now you have a preview of wtf this train wreck will be

1 ) lqq is a good character

We don’t get a ton of time with lqq because tgcf is 87 side characters running across stage with The Most Interesting Concept constantly one-upping each other before vanishing. But what we do get is, I think, enough to make a pretty compelling story: Lang Qianqiu is a kind and generous prince who is also the sole survivor of the bloody massacre of his entire family, committed by the people dearest to him (both in his belief that Gusohi Fangxin did it and in the reality of An Le’s involvement), who goes on to peacefully lead his fractious nation into a peaceful reign before he ascends as a powerful enough (aka beloved and worshipped enough) god to be ranked among the top heavenly generals. That’s like. Pretty fucking classic protagonist vibes right there.

And, as usual with mxtx’s characters, we get a lot more than this lovely little backstory. In his interactions in canon, lqq is capable of great grief and anger; he is willing to sacrifice himself if it means avenging his murdered family; and he simultaneously holds both great hatred and great respect for his old teacher. And, of course, he winds up raising and taking care of his enemy’s son which shows a remarkable depth of compassion and emotional messiness that I find terribly compelling. He struggles with a simplistic view of justice that is supported by lies told to “protect” him and that is uprooted by the truth and forces him to try to make sense of the world without the guardrails that others installed around him (looking at you mister fangxin sir).

Also I’m stealing my own tweets bc I’m Right but:

*pulls up single barstool to lqq is a good character table* I think it’s interesting & Says Things abt the continued relationship btwn lqq & xl that lqq *didn’t* recognize xl, implying that he left fangxin’s mask in place even when he went to kill him

Like here is the man who killed his family & best friend, who left him abandoned in bloodshed on his 17th bday—& here is also the man who saved his life, who taught him, who lqq looked up to & wanted to be like

Even when lqq *does* recognize xl, he still has so much respect for him paired with that hatred that it’s honestly rlly tragic? Like man. There’s so much grief in lqq’s repeated demands for a duel & insisting it’s fine if xl kills him as long as he doesn’t hold back

*pats lqq pompom* this bb is so sad. And so much more like his teacher than either of them seem to realize or necessarily want

Despite being a pretty minor character, lqq gets a lot of complexity and nuance! Look at this child trying to be grown up while desperately turning to his old master for guidance and “the truth”! Look at him! Be sad!!

2 ) lqq is an excellent parallel to xl

Okay stealing my own tweet again don’t look at me I yell the same shit everywhere

Xl didn’t want lqq to become like him (self-sacrificing, vengeful, alone) but lqq not only became alone, chasing vengeance, & willing to sacrifice himself for revenge—he also became kind, open-minded, & remorseful!! & he still clearly respects xl @ novel end 🙃🙃

We all know hc’s “they’re not very alike at all” and yeah sure baby go support your man but narratively, there’s a lot of importance given to cycles, parallels, and foils in mxtx’s writing and most explicitly (compared to mdzs, haven’t read svss) in tgcf. For example, *gestures at beefleaf, gestures at Xianle Trio vs Wuyogn Crew, gestures at Xie Lian & Jun Wu’s whole uh. Deal.* And while I’d argue xl and lqq are part of a triumvirate rather than a pair, we’re not including mister three-face in this conversation so just looking at xl and lqq:

Both adored and sheltered crown princes

Both taught by a guoshi who was seeking to prevent the repetition of their own tragedies and in their efforts, lied/omitted information and failed to protect their charge from tragedy

Both were betrayed* by their closest friends

Both are the last living members of their respective royal families

Both caught the interest of supernatural beings from a young age

Etc etc I’m getting v bored and distracted writing this so moving on

Most importantly to me, we have their betrayal by a very close and adored mentor and how they react. The confrontation I mention at the start of this shitshow is really imo one of the most important scenes in the novel because it a) illustrates the differences in xl and Jun Wu and b) sort of gives you a preview of how xl ultimately wins

So a) Jun Wu and Xie Lian both take a talented, marked-for ascension young prince under their wing. Jun Wu sees himself in the boy and obsesses over shaping him into Jun Wu’s own image in the belief that this will make him the perfect heir. Jun Wu pushes his chosen heir into situations where Xie Lian is repeatedly harmed in an effort to show that the common people are fickle and cruel and don’t deserve his compassion and care.

Meanwhile, Xie Lian is reluctantly roped into mentoring his prince due to his inability to stand aside when he feels he could do something to prevent hurt or injustice befalling another (simultaneously his great strength and great weakness! God I love him). Xie Lian tries to teach his student to believe in and care for the common people and not to sacrifice himself (see: flashback convo re:taking the force of the sword strike into his own body).

When Xie Lian refuses to bend in the shape Jun Wu demands, Jun Wu bashes his head into the wall. When Lang Qianqiu cries “I will never be like you!”, Xie Lian laughs and says “Good!”.

B) this of course feeds directly into foreshadowing! Like Lang Qianqiu’s bold words, xl ultimately refuses to become like his mentor and remains defiant even when it would stop him from being hurt. Xl beats lqq and says so what if I tricked you, so what if I lied, I still won. Naturally, xl beats Jun Wu not through standard swordplay but by using a trick he learned while forced to busk and wander the earth alone and unlucky for centuries.

…okay so I have fully forgotten what I was actually saying here! Anyway!

Like Xie Lian, Lang Qianqiu spends a time consumed with the need for vengeance, hunting his enemy and rejecting the heavens. And like Xie Lian, he winds up caring for his enemy’s “son” and trying to both comfort him and maintain what’s left of Qi Rong’s life force despite having previously been hellbent on destroying him—bc he sees the impact it has on another person. In the end, he even gives a gift to Xie Lian—his mentor, his role model, and the one who killed his father—that was once given to him as a symbol of unexpected kindness. Sound familiar?

But, importantly, and contradictory to what I have been yelling abt but whatever it’s 12:30 am, Lang Qianqiu is not a direct mirror of Xie Lian but a closing of a vital loop in the story. Lqq is very similar to xl (I will die on this hill!! Only I won’t bc I’m stronger than y’all and will keep swinging these pots and pans) but bc xl tries to do better and keep lqq from suffering the way xl has, lqq is able to have a gentler and more optimistic path forward. He’s proof that even a small act of kindness or even kindness to only one person still matters and has a ripple effect that can’t be seen when you’re in the middle of it—a thread started with xl giving the coral pearl to Lang Ying and closed with Lang Qianqiu returning the pearl to Xie Lian.

So I have no idea if any of this is coherent or compelling but I meant to be asleep two hours ago and the points are:

A) Lang Qianqiu is good actually

B) parallels!!!

C) look ive already started another wip about Lang Qianqiu and Xie Lian and I didn’t want this but no one else wrote it so now I have to so pls just accept this as a warning

*sort of air quotes around this for Xie Lian bc frankly Mu Qing was right & Xie Lian kicked feng xin out BUT on the other hand, it was experienced as a betrayal and we also again have all of Jun Wu’s shit so it evens out

[reallifesultanas]

Portraid of Ahmed I's sons / I. Ahmed szultán fiainak portréi

Ez a portrésorozat nem tartalmazza I. Ahmed három fiát, akikből később szultán lett (II. Oszmán, IV. Murad és I. Ibrahim). A szultánoknak különálló portré készült vagy fog készülni.

This series of portraits do not include the three sons of Ahmed I, who later became sultans (Osman II, Murad IV, and Ibrahim I). Separate portraits have been or will be published for them.

Şehzade Mehmed

Ahmed ascended the throne in December 1603, his first son Osman II was born in November 1604, followed a few months later by Prince Mehmed. Mehmed's mother was Kösem Sultan and he was born in March 1604 in Istanbul. The identity of his mother has long been in question, but nowadays we have evidence that indirectly clarifies that he was born as the son of Kösem Sultan. One such proof is that Kösem Sultan became a Haseki in late 1605 or early 1606, and this would hardly have been possible without a son. Another piece of evidence is an ambassadorial report from 1611/12 that says "The King has two sons, one is seven years old, the other six. His Majesty has three daughters as well, and to him sons are born very often, both for the abundancy of women and both for his youth and prosperity". Simone Contarini, who wrote this understood Osman and Mehmed as the two boys, but the three girls must have been mistaken, as Ahmed had four daughters alive at that time (Ayşe, Gevherhan, Fatma, and Hanzade). Perhaps Contarini only knew about the existence of Ayşe, Fatma, and Hanzade, as they were the children of Kösem Sultan, the famous favorite of Ahmed.

The counter-arguments that Mehmed was not the son of Kösem Sultan have now been overturned. In 1614, Della Valle recorded the second son of Sultan Ahmed as Sehzade Mahmud, which was mistakenly identified with Prince Murad by some. Murad was born in 1612 though. Mahmud was certainly a misunderstood version of Mehmed, not Murad. Another counter-argument was Valier's account of 1615. In that, he wrote that the Sultan not allowing the two older princes near Kösem Sultan, for the Sultan is well aware of Kösem Sultan's ambitions for her own children. Many identified the two princes as princes of Osman and Mehmed, so they though none of them were Kösem's sons. However, it was more likely that Valier meant Mustafa, Ahmed’s brother, and Osman, Ahmed's firstborn son. This is supported in particular by an earlier account of Valier, where he clearly describes that the sultan has four sons, two from the dead sultana and two from the living one. Since Mahfiruze - the mother of Osman - died around 1612, it is clear that she was the dead sultana. Mahfiruze's other son may have been Prince Bayezid, who was born in 1612 soon after Murad, the second son of the living sultana, Kösem.

It can be seen that the counter-arguments are much weaker, so we can say with relative certainty that Prince Mehmed was the firstborn son of Kösem Sultan. Not much is known about Mehmed's childhood. It is known that although they were taught and raised separately with Osman, their teacher was the same Ömer Efendi. Mehmed had joint programs with Osman after 1612 though. Kösem Sultan visited the Old Palace regularly to meet with Safiye Sultan, Ahmed's grandmother, and she regularly took Prince Mehmed with her, and occasionally also Osman. After Ahmed forbade her to spend time with Osman, she probably traveled to the Old Palace with Mehmed and possibly with her daughters or her second oldest son, Murad.

Mehmed's first real public appearance was shortly before his father's death, in 1617. It was then that the mosque complex of Sultan Ahmed was completed. Ahmed took his two oldest sons, Osman and Mehmed, to the opening ceremony. Ahmed died at the end of the year and a chaotic period ensued. The abolition of fratricide has long been a central theme in the Ottoman Empire and although Ahmed himself was against it and he did not execute his brother, Mustafa, he never made a legal decree about the topic. The only chance to save the lives of Mehmed and his younger brothers was to change the succession-system. Kösem Sultan for years tried to convince Ahmed and although she undoubtedly had something to do with Prince Mustafa surviving, after Ahmed’s death she could do nothing. However Haci Mustafa Aga, the chief black eunuch who was in close association with Kösem Sultan, was able to do something. He influenced the divan and ulema to enthrone the oldest living prince and spare the lives of the others. Thus the brother of Ahmed, Mustafa I, was put to the throne, so Mehmed and his brothers were locked up in the harem, but stayed alive.

Little is known about this short period since Mustafa was soon dethroned and Osman was enthroned. It was easy to influence Osman and this often pushed him to make wrong decisions. Osman was not popular, there were no supporters of his, there was no strong mother behind him who would have helped, so he was understandably terrified of Prince Mehmed. Mehmed was only four months younger, but his mother was an extremely popular and influential woman. Kösem Sultan never did anything against Osman, on the contrary, she tried to build a nice relationship and Osman also visited her in the Old Palace regularly. Over time, however, Osman's paranoia grew bigger. In the spring of 1621, he wanted to leave the capital to go on a campaign but was afraid to leave Mehmed in the capital. Osman feared that Kösem Sultan and Mehmed would do something and would enthrone Mehmed while he was at war. The logical step would have been for Osman to take Mehmed with him to the campaign, but Osman wanted a more definitive solution. For this reason, during the preparations for the campaign, he executed his brother in January 1621.

Mehmed certainly saw exactly how dangerous the situation was, and we can assume that during Osman's reign he feared that Osman would eventually revive the law of fratricide. Mehmed’s death shook Istanbul, poets of the age often write about this bloody event with immense disgust. Naima, for example, openly condemns and calls Osman a tyrant for making an innocent prince, Mehmed Khan, a martyr for his own power. According to legend, while Mehmed fought for his life with his executioners, he cursed Osman: "Osman! I beseech God that your life and your reign be full of dread, and as you have deprived me of my life, may the same fate be yours."

Whether the curse is true or not, the end soon reached Osman. A few days after Mehmed’s death, a huge snowstorm struck Istanbul, killing thousands of people. Commoners interpreted this as Revenge of Allah for Osman's disgusting act, so his popularity sank to unprecedented depths. And soon after his failed campaign, Osman was dethroned and brutally executed and mutilated.

Şehzade Cihangir

All we know about Prince Cihangir was that he was born in 1609 and died soon after. The identity of his mother is unknown, but it is almost certain that it was not Kösem Sultan. Kösem Sultan gave birth to another child, Hanzade Sultan, in 1609. It is unlikely that she would have given birth to two children in one year.

Şehzade Selim

Prince Selim was born in the summer of 1611 and died a month after his birth. The identity of his mother is unknown. He was buried in his father's mausoleum.

Şehzade Hasan

Prince Hasan was born in November 1612 between the later sultan Murad IV and Prince Bayezid, as the child of an anonymous concubine. He died shortly after his birth and was buried in his father's mausoleum.

Şehzade Bayezid

Prince Bayezid was born in December 1612, a few months after the birth of Prince Murad (later Murad IV) in July. Accounts suggest that Bayezid was Osman's full-brother, so his mother was Mahfiruze, too. Mahfiruze disappears from the harem records around this time, perhaps for complications after childbirth, perhaps for other reasons, but she died during this period.

We don't know much about his childhood. After the deaths of Prince Mehmed and Sultan Osman II, Murad, who was barely older than Bayezid, ascended the throne in 1623. This essentially made Bayezid the heir to the throne, with many dangers, especially since he was only a half-brother to Sultan Murad. Because of Murad's youth, his mother, Kösem Sultan, ruled the empire as a regent. The situation was very bad, in recent years the empire has gradually sunk into anarchy and the situation has become increasingly bleak. Kösem Sultan and the statesmen fought hard to pull the empire out of the chaos, and although they achieved success, they failed to solve all the problems.

Then, in 1632, tension peaked in a Janissary rebellion. The Janissaries executed several of Murad's close confidants and demanded that the Sultan show them the princes. Murad was forced to agree to this and showed his brothers the Janissaries, who at this time began to rejoice for the princes. This humiliation was never forgotten and forgiven by Murad later. It was then that he experienced for the first time in his life that Bayezid (and also his other brothers) posed a huge threat to him. It is not known how Bayezid felt about the situation, however, given that he was not the son of Kösem, he could not expect too much support, which made it probably a difficult time for him.

In fact, we know almost nothing about Bayezid's life and personality, he lived his life locked up in the palace. Contrary to the picture conjectured by the series, Bayezid was not particularly close to Murad and there was no bond between them. This, too, certainly played a role in Bayezid's destiny. Murad considered Selim I to be his role model, trying to follow him in everything, so he also wanted to bring back the old succession-system so that his son would follow him on the throne, and not one of his younger brothers. In addition, Murad was getting worse mentally and physically over the years, so he began to become paranoid and saw conspiracy against him in everything. These things together caused the end of Murad's brothers. After the victory of Revan in 1635, while the people celebrated he ordered the execution of two of his half-brothers, Prince Bayezid and Suleiman. Bayezid was buried in the mausoleum of his father, Ahmed I.

Şehzade Orhan

The birth, death of Prince Orhan, and his mother's identity are all unknowns. Most give his birth date between 1612 and 1617, but there is no primer evidence to suggest this. Since we know so little about him, he probably died shortly after his birth.

Şehzade Hüseyin

Prince Hüseyin was born in November 1613, not knowing who his mother was, but it is certain that it was not Kösem Sultan. The time of his death is 1617, however, we do not have a more precise date. It is interesting, however, that he was not buried in the mausoleum of his father, Ahmed I, but in his grandfather's, Mehmed III's mausoleum. The reason for this was perhaps that Ahmed's mausoleum was not completed when he died (very early 1617), which is why he was buried in Mehmed III's mausoleum. Of course, they could have been reburied him to Ahmed's mausoleum as they did with Ahmed’s previously deceased sons. We don't know why they did not rebury him. Maybe since Ahmed himself had soon passed away, there was no time for that. Maybe the prince's tomb was too fresh when the other princes were reburied so he was left out?

Şehzade Kasim

He was born in the beginning of 1614 as the son of Kösem Sultan. Prince Kasim spent a significant part of his childhood separated from his mother, locked in the kafes during the reigns of Mustafa II, Osman II, and then again Mustafa I. From 1617 to 1623 he had little or no access to his mother. It is not known how Kasim spent his childhood after 1623. As the son of Kösem and Murad's full-brother, perhaps during Murad's early reign, he was able to enjoy a little more freedom in the palace than his half-brothers. At least we can assume this when Kösem's reign lasted, until 1632.

In 1632 his life changed radically, for Kösem lost her regent position and Murad began to rule by himself with extreme strictness. This year there was a Janissary uprising in which the Janissaries, fearing that Sultan Murad had secretly executed his brothers, demanded that the Sultan show them the princes. Murad complied with the demands of the Janissaries, but never forgave the humiliation.

Little is known about Kasim's life during Murad's later reign. There are several legends based on contemporary and somewhat later accounts, however, their reliability is rather doubtful. These legends suggest that Kasim was very close to Murad. Knowing their mother, it seems logical that she tried to push the two boys to love each other, as this was how Kösem could protect her other sons from Murad. Murad and Kasim spent much time together, which Giovanni Cappello also confirms in his account from 1634. According to him, Murad regularly took Kasim with him, treated him very kindly, and even allowed his brother to grow a beard, which was not a custom among the princes living in the palace.

Knowing this, it is particularly surprising that Murad eventually turned against Kasim. Murad considered Selim I to be his role model, trying to follow him in everything, so he also wanted to bring back the old succession-system so that his son would follow him on the throne, and not one of his younger brothers. In addition, Murad was getting worse mentally and physically over the years, so he began to become paranoid and saw conspiracy against him in everything. As a result, Murad first made a fatal decision in 1635 and executed his half-brothers, Bayezid and Suleiman. He spared Kasim and his other brother, Ibrahim back then. But over time Murad's paranoia continued to grow and in 1638, after the victorious campaign in Baghdad, he also executed Kasim in the Revan Pavilion. Interestingly, barely two years later Murad died in the same place. Prince Kasim was buried in his father's mausoleum.

Şehzade Suleiman

Prince Suleiman was born in 1615 as the son of an unknown concubine. Some believe he was the son of Kösem Sultan, but this is completely ruled out for two reasons. On the one hand, Kösem gave birth to Ibrahim (later Ibrahim I) in November 1615, who was surely her son, so it is not mathematically possible that in 1615 she would have given birth to another child; on the other hand, Suleiman was executed by Sultan Murad in 1635, while his full-brother Kasim was executed only in 1638. It is clear that Murad first wanted to get rid of his half-brothers, so the fact that Suleiman died in 1635 along with Bayezid (who surely was Murad's half-brother) is in itself enough proof that he was not the son of Kösem. Prince Suleiman was also buried in the mausoleum of Ahmed I.

Used sources: C. Finkel - Osman's Dream: The Story of the Ottoman Empire; L. Peirce - The imperial harem; G. Börekçi - Factions and favourites at the courts of Sultan Ahmed I (r. 1603-17) and his immediate predecessors; S. Faroqhi - The Ottoman Empire and the World; C. Imber - The Ottoman Empire 1300-1650; F. Suraiya, K. Fleet - The Cambridge History of Turkey 1453-1603; G. Piterberg - An Ottoman Tragedy, History and Historiography at Play; F. Suraiya - The Cambridge History of Turkey, The Later Ottoman Empire, 1603–1839; Howard - A History of the Ottoman Empire; Öztuna - Devletler ve Hanedanlar; Uluçay - Padişahların Kadınları ve Kızları; : F. Davis - The Palace of Topkapi in Istanbul; Y. Öztuna - Genç Osman ve IV. Murad

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Şehzade Mehmed

Ahmed 1603 decemberében került trónra, első fia II. Oszmán 1604 novemberében jött világra, őt néhány hónappal követte Mehmed herceg. Mehmed édesanyja Köszem szultána volt és 1604 márciusában jött világra Isztambulban. Édesanyjának kiléte sokáig kérdéses volt, azonban napjainkban rendelkezésünkre állnak olyan bizonyítékok, melyek közvetetten egyértelműsítik, hogy Mehmed Köszem fiaként jött világra. Egyik ilyen bizonyíték, hogy Köszem 1605 végén vagy 1606 elején lett Haszeki szultána, ez pedig fiúgyermek születése nélkül aligha lett volna lehetséges. Másik bizonyíték egy 1611/12-ből származó követi beszámoló, mely úgy szól "a szultánnak két fia van, egyikük hét éves, másikuk hat. Emellett a szultánnak három lánya is van. Fiatalsága és termékenysége, valamint az, hogy nőkben nem szenved hiányt arra enged következtetni, hogy hamarosan több fiú fogja követni az első kettőt. Simone Contarini, aki az írás szerzője a két fiú alatt Oszmánt és Mehmedet értette, a három lány viszont minden bizonnyal tévedés lehetett, ugyanis Ahmednek ekkoriban négy lánya volt életben (Ayşe, Gevherhan, Fatma és Hanzade). Talán Contarini csak Ayşe, Fatma és Hanzade létéről tudott, ők voltak ugyanis Köszem - a kedvenc ágyas - gyermekei.

Az ellenérvek arra, hogy Mehmed nem Köszem fia volt mára megdőltek. Della Valle 1614-ben Ahmed szultán második fiát Sehzade Mahmudként jegyezte fel, melyet tévesen Murad herceggel azonosítottak néhányan, aki 1612-ben született. A Mahmud minden bizonnyal a Mehmed félreértett változata volt, nem a Muradé. Másik ellenérv volt Valier 1615-ös beszámolója, aki arról beszélt, hogy a szultán nem engedi a két idősebb herceget Köszem közelébe, ugyanis a szultán jól ismeri Köszem ambíciójit és tudja, hogy Köszem csak ártana a két hercegnek saját gyermekei érdekében. Sokan a két herceget Oszmán és Mehmed hercegekkel azonosították, azonban valószínűbb, hogy Valier Musztafára, Ahmed öccsére és Oszmánra gondolt. Különösen alátámasztja ezt Valier egyik korábbi beszámolója, ahol egyértelmen leírja, hogy a szultánnak négy fia van, kettő a halott és kettő az élő szultánáról. Mivel Mahfiruze - Oszmán anyja - 1612 körül elhunyt egyértelmű, hogy ő a halott szultána. Mahfiruze másik fia talán Bayezid herceg lehetett, aki nemsokkal Köszem - az élő szultána - második fia, Murad után született 1612-ben.

Látható, hogy az ellenérvek jóval gyengébbek, így relatív biztonsággal állíthatjuk, hogy Mehmed herceg Köszem szultána első szülött gyermeke volt. Mehmed gyermekkoráról nem sokat tudni. Ismert, hogy bár külön oktatták és nevelték Oszmán hercegtől, tanítójuk ugyanaz az Ömer Efendi volt. Oszmánnal 1612 után is voltak közös programjai Mehmednek. Köszem szultána ugyanis rendszeresen látogatott a Régi Palotába, hogy ott találkozzon Safiye szultánával, Ahmed nagyanyjával és ezekre az utakra rendszeresen vitte magával Mehmed herceget, és alkalmanként Oszmánt is. Miután Ahmed eltiltotta Oszmántól valószínűleg Mehmeddel kettesben, esetleg lányaival vagy Muraddal kiegészülve utaztak a Régi Palotába.

Mehmed első nyilvános megjelenése nemsokkal apja halála előtt volt, 1617-ben. Ekkor készült el ugyanis teljes egészében Ahmed szultán mecset kompelxuma, ahová két idősebb fiát, Oszmánt és Mehmedet is magával vitte a megnyitóra. Ahmed még az év végén elhunyt és kaotikus időszak következett. A testvérgyilkosság eltörlése régóta volt központi téma az Oszmán Birodalomban és bár maga Ahmed ellene volt és nem is végeztette ki édesöccsét, Musztafát, sosem hozott döntést arról, hogy halála után ki kövesse a trónon. Az egyetlen esély Mehmed és öccsei életének megmentésére az volt, ha az öröklési sorrendet örökre megváltoztatják. Köszem éveken át próbálta Ahmedet meggyőzni erről és bár kétségkívül köze volt ahhoz, hogy Musztafa herceg életben maradt, Ahmed halála után ő már nem tehetett semmit. Nem úgy a Köszemmel szoros szövetségben álló Haci Musztafa Aga, a fő fekete eunuch, aki befolyásával meggyőzte a divánt és ulemát, hogy Ahmed helyére a legidősebb élő herceget tegyék, a többiek életét pedig kíméljék meg. Így került I. Musztafa néven Ahmed öccse a trónra, Mehmed pedig testvéreivel együtt elzárásra a hárembe.

Keveset tudunk erről a rövid időszakról, hiszen Musztafát mentális betegsége maitt hamarosan trónfosztották és helyére Oszmánt ültették. Oszmán nagyon befolyásolható volt, mely tulajdonsága maitt gyakran hibázott. Oszmán nem volt népszerű, nem voltak támogatói, nem állt mögötte egy erős édesanya, aki segítette volna, így érthető módon rettegett Mehmed hercegtől. Mehmed csak négy hónappal volt fiatalabb, édesanyja viszont rendkívül népszerű és befolyásos asszony volt. Köszem sosem tett semmit Oszmán ellen és Oszmán maga is igyekezett jó viszont ápolni a nővel, rendszeresen látogatta a Régi Palotában. Idővel azonban Oszmán paranoiája eldurvult. 1621 tavaszán el akarta hagynia  fővárost, hogy hadjáratra induljon, azonban félt Mehmedet a fővárosban hagyni. Oszmán attól félt, hogy Köszem és Mehmed puccsot elkövetve elfoglalják a trónt, amíg ő háborúzik. A logikus lépés az lett volna, ha emiatt Oszmán magával viszi Mehmedet a hadjáratra, azonban Oszmán ennél véglegesebb megoldást akart. Emiatt a hadjárat előkészületei alatt 1621 januárjában megölette testvérét.

Mehmed minden bizonnyal pontosan látta, milyen veszélyes helyzetben van és feltételezhetjük, hogy Oszmán uralkodása alatt rettegett attól, hogy Oszmán végül feléleszti a testvérgyilkosság törvényét. Mehmed halála megrázta Isztambult, a kor és későbbi korok költői gyakran írnak erről a véres eseménnyel hatalmas undorral. Naima például nyíltan elítéli és zsarnoknak nevezi Oszmánt, amiért saját hatalma érdekében mártrírrá tett egy ártatlan herceget, Mehmed Khant. A legendák szerint amíg Mehmed életéért küzdött a kivégzőivel elátkozta Oszmánt: "Oszmán! Könyörögni fogok Allahnak, hogy egész életed és uralkodásot rettegésben teljen és sorsod legyen ugyanolyan, mint az enyém."

Akár igaz akár nem, Mehmed átka hamarosan elérte Oszmánt. Néhány nappal Mehmed halála után hatalmas hóvihar sújtott le Isztambulra, több ezer ember halálát okozva. Az emberek ezt Allah bosszújaként értelmezték Oszmán undorító cselekedete miatt, így Oszmán népszerűsége sosem látott mélységekbe süllyedt. Sikertelen hadjárata után pedig hamarosan trónfosztották és brutális módon kivégezték és megcsonkították Oszmánt.

Şehzade Cihangir

Cihangir hercegről annyit tudunk, hogy 1609-ben született és nemsokkal később el is hunyt. Édesanyjának kiléte nem ismert, viszont szinte bizton állítható, hogy nem Köszem volt. Köszem ugyanis 1609-ben egy másik gyermeknek, Hanzade szultánának adott életet, így valószínűtlen, hogy egy évben két gyermeket is világra hozott volna.

Şehzade Selim

Szelim herceg 1611 nyarán született és születése után nemsokkal meg is halt. Anyja kiléte nem ismert. Apja mauzóleumában helyezték végső nyugalomra.

Şehzade Hasan

Hasan herceg 1612 novemberében született későbbi IV. Murad és Bayezid herceg között, egy névtelen ágyas gyermekeként. Születését követően nemsokkal elhunyt és apja mauzóleumában helyezték végső nyugalomra.

Şehzade Bayezid

Bayezid herceg 1612 decemberében született néhány hónappal Murad herceg (későbbi IV. Murad) júliusi születése után. A követi beszámolók valószínűsítik, hogy Bayezid Oszmán édesöccse volt, így édesanyja neki is Mahfiruze volt. Mahfiruze innentől eltűnik a hárem jegyzőkönyvekből, talán a szülés után fellépő komplikációk, talán más okok miatt, de ebben az időszakban elhunyt.

Gyermekkoráról nem tudunk sokat. Mehmed herceg és Oszmán szultán halála után kisebb kitérővel a Bayezidnél alig idősebb Murad jutott trónra 1623-ban. Ezzel lényegében Bayezid lett a trónörökös, ami igen sok veszéllyel járt, különösen, hogy csak féltestvére volt Murad szultánnak. Murad fiatalkora miatt édesanyja Köszem szultána uralkodott a birodalmon régensként. A helyzet igen rossz volt, az elmúlt években a birodalom fokozatosan süllyedt anarchiába és vált egyre kilátástalanabbá a helyzet. Köszem és az államférfiak erősen küzdöttek, hogy a birodalmat kihúzzák a csávából, és bár értek el sikereket, nem sikerült megoldaniuk a problémákat.

1632-ben aztán egy janicsár lázadásban csúcsosodott ki a feszültség. A janicsárok kivégezték Murad több közeli bizalmasát és követelték a szultántól, hogy mutassa meg nekik a többi herceget. Murad kénytelen volt beleegyezni ebbe és megmutatta janicsároknak testvéreit, akik ekkor éltetni kezdték a hercegeket. Ezt a megaláztatást később Murad sosem felejtette el. Ekkor tapasztalta meg életében először, hogy Bayezid hatalmas veszélyt jelent rá. Nem tudni, hogy Bayezid, hogyan élte meg a helyzetet, azonban tekintettel arra, hogy nem Köszem fia volt nem számíthatott túl sok támogatásra, emiatt feltehetőleg nehéz időszak volt ez számára.

Tulajdonképpen Bayezid életéről, személyiségéről szinte semmit nem tudunk, életét a palotába elzárva élte. A sorozat által sejtetett képpel ellentétben, Bayezid nem állt különösebben közel Muradhoz és nem volt köztük semmi kötelék. Ennek is minden bizonnyal szerepe volt Bayezid végzetében. Murad példaképének I. Szelimet tartotta, őt próbálta követni mindenben, így a régi öröklési rendet is vissza akarta hozni, hogy utána fia kövesse a trónon, ne pedig öccsei közül valaki. Emellett Murad mentálisan és fizikailag is egyre rosszabb állapotban volt az évek során, így kezdett paranoiddá válni és mindenben konspirációt látott személye ellen. Ezek együttesen okoztákazt, hogy 1635-ben a győztes revani hadjárata után, míg az emberek ünnepeltek ő elrendelte két féltestvére, Bayezid és Szulejmán hercegek kivégzését. Bayezidet apja, I. Ahmed mauzóleumában helyezték végső nyugalomra.

Şehzade Orhan

Orhan herceg születése, halála és anyja kiléte egyaránt ismeretlen. A legtöbben 1612 és 1617 közé teszik születését, de nincs erre utaló bizonyíték. Mivel ennyire semmit nem tudunk róla, valószínűleg röviddel születése után elhunyt.

Şehzade Hüseyin

Hüseyin herceg 1613 novemberében jött világra, nem tudni, hogy ki volt az édesanyja, ám az bizonyos, hogy nem Köszem. Halálának ideje 1617, azonban pontosabb időpont nem áll rendelkezésünkre. Érdekesség viszont, hogy nem Ahmed mauzóleumában, hanem nagyapja III. Mehmed mauzóleumában temették el. Ennek oka talán az volt, hogy Ahmed mauzóleuma még nem készült el, mikor meghalt, emiatt III. Mehmedébe temették. Természetesen újratemethették volna, mint Ahmed korábban elhunyt fiait, azonban mivel Ahmed maga is nemsoká elhunyt erre nem jutott idő. Esetleg túl friss volt a sír, amikor a többi herceget újratemették, így ő kimaradt?

Şehzade Kasim

1614 legelején jött világra Köszem szultána fiaként. Kasim herceg gyermekkorának jelentős részét édesanyjától elszakítva töltötte, elzárva a kafesben I. Musztafa, II. Oszmán majd újra I. Musztafa uralkodása alatt. 1617-től 1623-ig nem vagy csak alig találkozhatott édesanyjával. Nem tudni, hogy Kasim gyermekkorát hogyan töltötte. Mivel Köszem fia volt és Murad édestestvére, talán Murad 1623-ban kezdődő uralkodása alatt valamivel nagyobb szabadságot élvezhetett a palotában, mint féltestvérei. Legalábbis feltételezhetjük ezt amíg tartott Köszem uralma, 1632-ig.

1632-ben élete gyökeresen megváltozott, ugyanis Köszem elveszítette régensi pozícióját és Murad kezdett vasszigorral uralkodni. Ebben az évben zajlott egy janicsár felkelés, mely során a janicsárok félve attól, hogy Murad szultán titokban kivégeztette öccseit, követelték, hogy a szultán mutassa meg a herceget. Murad eleget tett a janicsárok követeléseinek, azonban sosem bocsátotta meg a megaláztatást.

Kasim életéről Murad uralkodása alatt keveset tudunk. Több legenda is létezik korabeli és valamivel későbbi beszámolókra alapozva, azonban ezek megbízhatósága meglehetősen kétséges. Ezek a legendák azt sugallják, hogy Kasim igen közel állt Muradhoz. Ismerve édesanyjukat logikusnak tűnik, hogy igyekezett úgy nevelni, hogy a két fiú szeresse egymást, hiszen így óvhatta leginkább Köszem többi fiát Muradtól. Úgy tartják, hogy Murad és Kasim sok időt töltöttek együtt, amit Giovanni Cappello követi beszámolója is alátámaszt 1634-ből. Szerint Murad rendszeresen vitte magával Kasimot, nagyon kedvesen bánt vele és még azt is megengedte öccsének, hogy szakállt viselhessen, ami nem volt szokás a palotában élő hercegek között.

Ennek fényében különösen meglepő, hogy Murad végül Kasim ellen fordult. Murad példaképének I. Szelimet tartotta, őt próbálta követni mindenben, így a régi öröklési rendet is vissza akarta hozni, hogy utána fia kövesse a trónon, ne pedig öccsei közül valaki. Emellett Murad mentálisan és fizikailag is egyre rosszabb állapotban volt az évek során, így kezdett paranoiddá válni és mindenben konspirációt látott személye ellen. Ennek eredményeként Murad először 1635-ben hozott meg egy végzetes döntés és végeztette ki féltestvéreit, Bayezid és Szulejmán hercegeket. Ekkor Kasimot és másik öccsét, Ibrahimot megkímélte. Idővel azonban Murad paranoiája tovább nőtt és 1638-ban a győztes bagdadi hadjárata után kivégeztette Kasimot is, a Revan Pavilonban. Érdekesség, hogy alig két évvel később Murad ugyanitt halt meg megtörve. Kasim herceget édesapja mauzóleumában temették el.

Şehzade Szulejmán

Szulejmán herceg 1615-ben született egy ismeretlen ágyas fiaként. Egyesek úgy tartják Köszem szultána fia volt, ám ez teljességgel kizárt két okból is. Egyrészt Köszem 1615 novemberében adott életet Ibrahimnak (későbbi I. Ibrahim), aki tudottan az ő fia volt, így matematikailag nem lehetséges, hogy 1615-ben egy másik gyermeknek is életet adott volna; másrészt Szulejmánt 1635-ben végeztette ki Murad szultán, míg édestestvérét Kasimot csupán 1638-ban. Egyértelmű, hogy Murad először féltestvéreitől akart megszabadulni, így a tény, hogy Szulejmán 1635-ben halt meg, önmagában is elég bizonyíték, hogy nem Köszem fia volt. Szulejmán herceget is I. Ahmed mauzóleumában temették el.

Felhasznált források: C. Finkel - Osman's Dream: The Story of the Ottoman Empire; L. Peirce - The imperial harem; G. Börekçi - Factions and favourites at the courts of Sultan Ahmed I (r. 1603-17) and his immediate predecessors; S. Faroqhi - The Ottoman Empire and the World; C. Imber - The Ottoman Empire 1300-1650; F. Suraiya, K. Fleet - The Cambridge History of Turkey 1453-1603; G. Piterberg - An Ottoman Tragedy, History and Historiography at Play; F. Suraiya - The Cambridge History of Turkey, The Later Ottoman Empire, 1603–1839; Howard - A History of the Ottoman Empire; Öztuna - Devletler ve Hanedanlar; Uluçay - Padişahların Kadınları ve Kızları; : F. Davis - The Palace of Topkapi in Istanbul; Y. Öztuna - Genç Osman ve IV. Murad

[janiedean]

jaime, pia and perceived ideals of knighthood vs effective knightly deeds

for jaime lannister week, day seven: free choice [in this case: META DAY? APPARENTLY.]

so, for the occasion I figured I’d rant about a specific instance in jaime’s asos/affc arc that might be a tad overlooked as it features a minor character but that I think is really important to his arc/his character evolution, as in: how his subplot concerning pia in both books actually shows that while he thinks he turned into the smiling knight, for someone he’s been arthur dayne all along and how actually pia is about the one person to whom he’s never not been anyone or anything else else, which should in turn suggest that he’s been arthur dayne deep down for way longer than he himself thinks.

first of all, I would like to go into the canon instances on which jaime himself reflects on the issue:

The world was simpler in those days, Jaime thought, and men as well as swords were made of finer steel. Or was it only that he had been fifteen? They were all in their graves now, the Sword of the Morning and the Smiling Knight, the White Bull and Prince Lewyn, Ser Oswell Whent with his black humor, earnest Jon Darry, Simon Toyne and his Kingswood Brotherhood, bluff old Sumner Crakehall. And me, that boy I was . . . when did he die, I wonder? When I donned the white cloak? When I opened Aerys's throat? That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.  ASOS, Jaime VIII

"When I was a squire I told myself I'd be the man to slay the Smiling Knight."

"The Smiling Knight?" She sounded lost. "Who was that?"

The Mountain of my boyhood. Half as big but twice as mad. AFFC, Jaime IV

"You could kill Lord Beric, Ser Jaime. You slew the Smiley Knight. Please, my lord, I beg you, stay and help us with Lord Beric and the Hound." Her pale fingers caressed his golden ones.

Does she think that I can feel that? "The Sword of the Morning slew the Smiling Knight, my lady. Ser Arthur Dayne, a better knight than me." AFFC, Jaime IV

now, there are a few things we can deduce from these (there’s more on the arthur subject, but the crux here is the contraposition):

jaime has a very idealized view of his squiring period, obviously, because it’s the one time in which he was doing what he felt like he was born to do (being a knight) and in which he was part of an heroic quest/deed (slaying the smiling knight) that he carried out with his role model (arthur dayne);

the smiling knight himself is compared to gregor clegane, ie the worst person we could think of in these series;

in jaime’s head there’s a definite dichotomy in between arthur (extreme good) and the smiling knight (extreme bad);

jaime wanted to be like arthur (which he has no problem admitting now post hand-loss) but thinks that he turned into the smiling knight ie the worst possible other end of the specter, so he’a actually making himself look worse than he actually is as nothing he’s done in canon until that point is comparable to what gregor did if we stand by that comparison;

jaime *told himself he would slay the smiling knight* ie he dreamed of being the person who’d carry out that quest - it earned him the knighthood and he took part in it but he didn’t exactly do it as he points out later, as he says that arthur was a better knight than he was.

now, while we could discuss for ages about how jaime’s extremely idealized view of arthur and the rest of aerys’s KG doesn’t necessarily match up with reality (I mean, we don’t know much about what arthur was up to during the rebellion and we’ll never know until we get a direct account of what happened at the tower of joy but the man died trying to prevent ned from reaching his dying sister after his side lost the war, after rhaegar died and so on, which doesn’t look exactly knightly to me or at least it’s fairly morally gray/shady from the elements that we have), but the point I want to make here is that the way jaime sees it, he completely failed to uphold knightly vows, hasn’t measured up to his role model, turned into the kind of monster that he was dreaming of slaying when he was young and ponders when exactly that switch happened. and he mentions as possibilities a) when he went into the KG, b) when he killed aerys.

before I move on to the actual point, though, I’d like to point out one moment what is actually the oath knights swear when being anointed, as per ASOS and The Hedge Knight:

[..], do you swear before the eyes of gods and men to defend those who cannot defend themselves, to protect all women and children, to obey your captains, your liege lord, and your king, to fight bravely when needed and do such other tasks as are laid upon you, however hard or humble or dangerous they may be?

+

In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women....

so, very shortly and not counting the ones about obeying one’s commander or liege lord, the crux is protecting innocent/weaker people including women and children who can’t defend themselves any better.

so, jaime thinks he’s done nothing of that and that he’s not doing anything of that. fair enough. follow-up under the cut for length.

now, on to pia: before going on to how she matters in his arc, we should keep in mind that from what we know from arya’s chapters in a clash of kings:

Arya heard all sorts of secrets just by keeping her ears open as she went about her duties. Pretty Pia from the buttery was a slut who was working her way through every knight in the castle. Hot Pie was kneading bread, his arms floured up to his elbows. "Pia saw something in the buttery last night." Arya made a rude noise. Pia was always seeing things in the buttery. Usually they were men. Tothmure had been sent to the axe for dispatching birds to Casterly Rock and King's Landing the night Harrenhal had fallen, Lucan the armorer for making weapons for the Lannisters, Goodwife Harra for telling Lady Whent's household to serve them, the steward for giving Lord Tywin the keys to the treasure vault. The cook was spared (some said because he'd made the weasel soup), but stocks were hammered together for pretty Pia and the other women who'd shared their favors with Lannister soldiers. Stripped and shaved, they were left in the middle ward beside the bear pit, free for the use of any man who wanted them.

so: we know that she’s a serving hand (so she’s a woman of low birth who has virtually no protection whatsoever), that she’s good-looking and that she most likely enjoys having sex (nothing bad about that)… but that people shame her for it (see the first quote). we also can deduce that she was willing in her enjoyment of sex and so on… but the last that we know from arya’s chapters, when roose conquers it, she’s stripped and shaved and left free for use for having slept with lannister soldiers, so we can add that on top of that she most likely was raped and we can deduce that not many people would have considered it such after because of her previous reputation for promiscuity.

now, what happens after is that qyburn sends her to jaime figuring that he’d appreciate it:

“I understand you had a visitor last night,” said Qyburn. “I trust that you enjoyed her?”

Jaime gave him a cool look. “She did not say who sent her.”

The maester smiled modestly. “Your fever was largely gone, and I thought you might enjoy a bit of exercise. Pia is quite skilled, would you not agree? And so . . . willing.”

what we can deduce here is that qyburn sent her to jaime after the whole part where she was put up for *free use* by any man who wanted her and he still says she’s willing, which is actually true but more on that later, but to qyburn it really doesn’t matter most likely because of her previous fame. also he talks about her as if she’s not a person with feelings (she’s skilled, you enjoyed her etc.), while jaime does not sleep with her out of faithfulness towards cersei, but what’s interesting is how pia said she saw the entire thing:

“She had been that, certainly. She had slipped in his door and out of her clothes so quickly that Jaime had thought he was still dreaming.

It hadn’t been until the woman slid in under his blankets and put his good hand on her breast that he roused. She was a pretty little thing, too. “I was a slip of a girl when you came for Lord Whent’s tourney and the king gave you your cloak,” she confessed. “You were so handsome all in white, and everyone said what a brave knight you were. Sometimes when I’m with some man, I close my eyes and pretend it’s you on top of me, with your smooth skin and gold curls. I never truly thought I’d have you, though.”

Sending her away had not been easy after that, but Jaime had done it all the same. I have a woman, he reminded himself. “Do you send girls to everyone you leech?” he asked Qyburn.

“More often Lord Vargo sends them to me. He likes me to examine them, before . . . well, suffice it to say that once he loved unwisely, and he has no wish to do so again. But have no fear, Pia is quite healthy. As is your maid of Tarth.”

Jaime gave him a sharp look. “Brienne?”

now, never mind that the entire exchange ends up with jaime finding out that brienne is in danger and it’s just before his dream and the bear pit as in, his Extremely Knightly Moment in asos which is also relevant as that episode (while not the first knightly thing he does after losing the hand since saving brienne from being raped while on their road trip would count) is the first major gesture of the kind he does: we know that after she was most likely raped repeatedly, she got sent to *him*, and we find out that she’s actually been thinking of him in extremely knightly terms all along since she saw him getting knighted. now she says she was a slip of a girl so she most likely was around four or five and she still remembers that he looked handsome and brave (knightly virtues) and that when she’s with other people she pretends it’s jaime making love to her, to the point that she can’t believe her luck that she’d actually end up with him. now, he refuses (even if he finds it hard), but he’s most likely one of the few people (if not the only one) who would have done that and he also doesn’t appreciate qyburn basically whoring her out, so at least he’s giving her some basic respect… but the point here is that to pia he sounds/looks like the embodiment of everything he thinks he’s not (brave/knightly) and she’s been thinking that since he went into the kingsguard ie one of the two moments that in the above quote he thought might have been when he turned from arthur into the smiling knight, which therefore would *not* match her idea of him as a splendid example of knightly valor… in theory.

now, at this point, regardless of what happened in between arya leaving harrenhal and jaime getting there, pia still seems to not having undergone through massive changes since what we saw in acok - she’s still pretty, she enjoys sex and she definitely is willing at least when it comes to the one man she’s been having an idealized crush on for years and that she thinks of when having sex with other men.

then jaime goes back to harrenhal in affc before heading for riverrun and he meets her again:

Any hopes he might have nursed of finding Shagwell, Pyg, or Zollo languishing in the dungeons were sadly disappointed. The Brave Companions had abandoned Vargo Hoat to a man, it would seem. Of Lady Whent's people, only three remained—the cook who had opened the postern gate for Ser Gregor, a bent-back armorer called Ben Blackthumb, and a girl named Pia, who was not near as pretty as she had been when Jaime saw her last. Someone had broken her nose and knocked out half her teeth. The girl fell at Jaime's feet when she saw him, sobbing and clinging to his leg with hysterical strength till Strongboar pulled her off. "No one will hurt you now," he told her, but that only made her sob the louder. +

“Take the whore as well," Ser Bonifer urged. "You know the one. The girl from the dungeons."

"Pia." The last time he had been here, Qyburn had sent the girl to his bed, thinking that would please him. But the Pia they had brought up from the dungeons was a different creature from the sweet, simple, giggly creature who'd crawled beneath his blankets. She had made the mistake of speaking when Ser Gregor wanted quiet, so the Mountain had smashed her teeth to splinters with a mailed fist and broken her pretty little nose as well. He would have done worse, no doubt, if Cersei had not called him down to King's Landing to face the Red Viper's spear. Jaime would not mourn him.

"Pia was born in this castle," he told Ser Bonifer. "It is the only home she has ever known."

"She is a font of corruption," said Ser Bonifer. "I won't have her near my men, flaunting her . . . parts."

so, what happens is that when gregor (as in, the person jaime compared the smiling knight with before) was in harrenhal he smashed her teeth with a mailed first because she spoke out of turn and as per what the next quote says, she’s also been repeatedly raped again, and she’s definitely way traumatized and in a position of absolute helplessness… and she throws herself at jaime’s feet most likely seeing him as a possible savior - let’s remember that she’s idealized him as a brave knight all along, and he does promise she won’t be hurt, which is what he technically should do per his knightly vows. now, when he tries to argue for her staying in harrenhal, ser bonifer ie the person appointed to mind the castle in his absence says he doesn’t want her around because she’s a supposed whore regardless of how bad off she is right now. he could have ignored the issue, but he doesn’t and takes her as a washerwoman in his own army, and with that he already removes her from a place where she would have been even less safe than usual, but the important thing is in the next part:

Pia listened as solemnly as a girl of five being lessoned by her septa. That's all she is, a little girl in a woman's body, scarred and scared. Peck was taken with her, though. Jaime suspected that the boy had never known a woman, and Pia was still pretty enough, so long as she kept her mouth closed. There's no harm in him bedding her, I suppose, so long as she's willing.

One of the Mountain's men had tried to rape the girl at Harrenhal, and had seemed honestly perplexed when Jaime commanded Ilyn Payne to take his head off. "I had her before, a hunnerd times," he kept saying as they forced him to his knees. "A hunnerd times, m'lord. We all had her." When Ser Ilyn presented Pia with his head, she had smiled through her ruined teeth.

now: never mind that jaime (who as we all know is not the kind of person who reacts with a shrug when hearing/knowing someone has been raped or he wouldn’t be feeling guilty about his inaction with rhaella nor he’d have risked his hide to save brienne from it thrice two of which were post-hand loss and in one of those he wasn’t even able to stand by himself) always thinks that if she has to bed someone the important thing is that she’s *willing* nor thinks less of her for he promiscuity, which for westeros is fairly progressive all things considered… but he gives her the head of the guy who tried to rape her and by his own admission did it before *a hundred times* same as other soldiers in his group, and… she smiles through ruined teeth ie she doesn’t even care about hiding it, when later she takes care to cover her mouth when she speaks around other nobles. also, we can discuss that when she and peck start sleeping together jaime tells them to use his bed and:

The squire turned beet red.

"If she'll have you, take her. She'll teach you a few things you'll find useful on your wedding night, I don't doubt, and you're not like to get a bastard by her." Pia had spread her legs for half his father's army and never quickened; most like the girl was barren. "If you bed her, though, be kind to her."

"Kind, my lord? How . . . how would I . . . ?"

"Sweet words. Gentle touches. You don't want to wed her, but so long as you're abed treat her as you would your bride."

now: obviously he can’t tell his squire (who is still noble) that he should marry a woman who is a commoner, most likely barren and way older than he is, but he tells him that he still should treat her *as if she was* until they sleep together, and his standard for how you’d treat your bride is sweet words and gentle touches which most likely is not what pia’s gotten until this point much if ever, and throughout the entire thing while he is attracted to her and he doesn’t deny it to himself he still doesn’t act on it. and meanwhile since she’s still traveling with his army of which he’s in command she’s in a position of relative safety, never mind that if people know that he ordered beheaded the guy who tried to touch her when she wasn’t willing she definitely isn’t under that risk right now.

back to the beginning, what are the knightly vows again? protecting innocent/weaker people including women and children who can’t defend themselves any better. what has jaime done with pia on her end? he didn’t sleep with her nor treated her as a commodity, he has quite literally protected her taking her into his service when she was in danger, he’s made sure that she wouldn’t have to sleep with anyone she didn’t want to, has respected her agency and gave her the head of at least one of the guys who raped her, which considering that the person hurting her was *gregor clegane* ie the man he’s roundabout compared *himself* to in asos if we go by the smiling knight = gregor comparison… it’s kind of the entire opposite thing and absolutely counts as fulfilling every single knightly vow he made since he protected/saved/avenged a woman in a position of absolute helplessness about whose agency no one cares because everyone decided that since she likes sex then she must always want it.

the thing that’s important though is that by doing that… he’s pretty much proved her right, in the sense that if she’s always imagined him as the brave handsome knight since she was a little girl and he had just been anointed and she always idealized him to the point where she’d think about him when being with other people because obviously his idealized self would be everything she might want then he about went and proved her right regardless of any other shortcoming of his or regardless of any horrible thing he might have done before or after, because to her he most likely would be a knight out of songs since he did waltz in, promised no one would hurt her after it happened to her and actually delivered on it in spades.

but, while for *her* it’s definitely the case, jaime himself doesn’t think of it in very knightly terms, at most we have:

“Ser Harwyn says those tales are lies." Lady Amerei wound a braid around her finger. "He has promised me Lord Beric's head. He's very gallant." She was blushing beneath her tears.

Jaime thought back on the head he'd given to Pia. He could almost hear his little brother chuckle. Whatever became of giving women flowers? Tyrion might have asked. He would have had a few choice words for Harwyn Plumm as well, though gallant would not have been one of them. 

now, he’s thinking of it in the context of a romantic gesture since it was described as one before, but then he says gallant wouldn’t be one of those words and he doesn’t really register what he did as *gallant* or knightly while most likely pia would. also, he’s comparing himself to both the smiling knight and gregor (in another quote later he dreams of punching in the teeth one of cersei’s lovers the way gregor did while he’s still working through how betrayed that made him feel, but thing is, he doesn’t act on that at any point except when he punches ronnet for brienne and it’s nowhere near as bad as what he describes himself as) but he behaves in the entire opposite way since at least in pia’s case gregor about ruined her life and he avenged it/helped her/did what he could for her which is about more than most likely anyone ever did, and to her certainly everything he did would indeed look as knightly as it goes.

but like the entire point is that jaime doesn’t think of the knightly deeds he actually pulls off as such - he doesn’t think that of saving brienne’s life at the bear pit/saving her from being raped/giving her oathkeeper when brienne herself definitely sees them as such as in her affc chapters she keeps on thinking about both instances as proof that he’s Definitely A Honorable Person, he doesn’t think that of what he does with pia nor of anything else positive he’s ever done/does, which ties with the overall arc he has in which he has to realize that he can still be the person he wanted to be. in asos he thinks he turned into the smiling knight when he’s never been all along, in both asos and affc he does behave following the code when he can and hates not being able to when he can’t/when he’s forced to (see having to take riverrun when he says he has sworn to not raise arms against the tullys and he hates it) but he still doesn’t seem to have taken the leap and realized that he actually behaves in entirely different ways than he thinks (see that he thinks he’s the same as cersei when most of the things he does/he cares about are the entire contrary), so the subplot with pia shows that he’s actually doing that without realizing it… with the twist that, going back to the beginning:

he thinks he turned into the smiling knight (= gregor) sometime along the way when he wanted to be arthur dayne, then he’s the literal knight in shining armor to a girl who was hurt by gregor and his father’s men who always thought he was pretty much the embodiment of the institution same as jaime thought arthur dayne was, and it’s a girl who has no idea of anything else he might have done other than killing aerys and she obviously doesn’t care since she doesn’t mention it when she goes to his bed the first time. so there is someone to whom he was an arthur dayne all along, and the moment he could do something for her, he actually delivered and definitely was arthur dayne to her, not the smiling knight, and she’d know since she was hurt by the man jaime himself compared to him first. now, it’s important because everyone else that has had a chance to know that jaime actually does have that potential is people with whom he has an actual rship/who have seen him at his worst/with whom he has unresolved Issues To Solve ASAP (I’m meaning mostly brienne and tyrion - brienne didn’t like him whatsoever in the beginning and with tyrion there’s the whole matter of the tysha backstory which obviously ruined the high opinion tyrion had of him even if I think it’s salvageable) but in this case pia already thought she was arthur dayne As A Paragon Of Knightly Virtues (not as how arthur actually was which is as stated an entire other issue in itself) and he lived up to it without even realizing he was doing it, but he doesn’t even think once about whether he shouldn’t help her or he shouldn’t give her the time of the day. like, he doesn’t really consider doing otherwise or not giving a shit about what happens to her regardless. which should also automatically suggest that it’s actually in his nature to do the right thing/follow the basics of his vows. obviously he didn’t realize that but as finding out he has it in himself to be the person he wanted to be when he was young and that he didn’t turn into a gregor stand-in is I think one of the main themes in his arc, I also think this specific subplot really underlines how he’s still in the middle of figuring it out while also stressing that regardless of what he thinks about what he is or what he became, he can be arthur dayne As A Paragon and that he can deliver on that/be what he always dreamed he could be for someone who already saw him as that paragon and whom he hasn’t disappointed in any other way.

in short: by helping someone who exactly meets all the criteria for ‘category he swore to protect when taking his vows’ when this person already saw him as a paragon, he’s actually contradicting his own assessment of his morality/honor or lack thereof, because while he thinks he wanted to be arthur dayne and turned into the contrary, to other people he always was arthur dayne and when he could show them that he could be, he delivered on those expectations, differently from what most others did to him, and I find it quite a beautiful if heartbreaking parallel and also definitely a not so small hint that his overall storyline is going towards realize that he, in fact, isn’t the smiling knight at all and never actually has been.

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Yo man, I hear that the Blackfyres and their supporters were Conservative, sexist, brutish usurpers who couldn't stand to see a feminist king on the throne but here you are, an honest to God bra burning, women's lit thumping feminist unironically supporting the Black Dragon. In this entire fandom you're the only person I've found openly supporting them. If you don't mind me asking, why do you like them so much?

Hey dude, you’re asking me to talk about sexism, fandom hypocrisy, and my Blackfyre love in an inflammatory way that could result in getting me in trouble with the fandom? I probably shouldn’t be answering this, but ok. This has been sitting in my inbox for a week, and let no one say that I leave any ask unanswered. Wankery found under the cut:

Eyy dude, what if I told you that the perception of Blackfyres as sexist, brutish usurpers in fandom is largely due to some prominent people’s intellectual elitism and projection of neoliberal political views? Aspects of GRRM’s writing like the unreliable narrator, villains-are-heroes-from-another-side, and history is written by the “victors” are given no credibility in favor of condemning the Blackfyre supporters as racist, sexist, and ableist (?) in fandom. I’m extremely annoyed that no one seems to be asking the sort of questions or making the sort of connections that I have due to this blanket ban on Blackfyre sympathy. I’ve answered your broader question on why I supported the Blackfyres in an earlier ask (they were more honorable, less absolutist and cruel than the Targaryens, even demonstrated some meritocracy, and most died horrifically) so I will try to answer based on the sexism angle: How come I like the Blackfyres so much and support woman’s liberation at the same time?

First of all, you come into my askbox and tell me that Daeron II was a feminist king? Nah bro. A real male feminist ally in a position of power would’ve passed laws to ensure his father’s predatory behavior would be banned. He would’ve been trying to apologize for the way he and his father treated the Bracken sisters and actively sought to make amends instead of making the situation worse. He could’ve given widows a pension or granted certain protections to mothers with illegitimate children. He could’ve opened up exit shelters for prostituted women wanting to learn a trade, as Empress Theodora did back in sixth century AD Byzantium. Why does fandom think he is so Feminist™ when he did so little for women? Are they referring to him having Princess Elaena as an unofficial advisor while her husband Ronnel Penrose was Master of Coin, a man who could barely string two numbers together? (Which really undermines the claim that Daeron was a reformer who chose wise men as councilors, since he selected an incompetent based on his own family status) Might I remind everyone that Daeron arranged Elaena’s second marriage in the first place, a woman 3 years his elder who had been locked in prison for 11 years by her brother, bore illegitimate twins by her cousin, forced to wed an old man by her uncle/Aegon, and may have been forced into sleeping with the horrific Aegon IV? You’d think after enduring so much at the hands of her male relatives, the Kind™ Daeron would’ve backed off, but she has to pay for his son Aerys’ failed marriage by sacrificing her hard-won independence. How feminist. But I guess it’s OK, because after Ronnel died Daeron generously gave his blessing when she wed someone she truly loved! I can’t imagine she felt much affection for this entitled shit. But maybe the Great Fandom Minds™ are referring to how Daeron treated his wife Myriah, who is a blank slate in terms of personality and political actions? I can’t even think of any other names of women Daeron might’ve canonically “empowered”, so how exactly is he a feminist? And why does thinking he was a self-serving politician who treated all of his family members except his sons like expendable trash make me sexist? Do tell, Fandom Minds who know so much more than I.

By contrast, how does liking Daemon Blackfyre and thinking he’d be a better king than Daeron make one sexist? Eustace Osgrey said that he hung out with warriors rather than septons and women, but GRRM himself said that Daemon did have female followers (some we know even participated in the Second Blackfyre Rebellion, like Ladies Vyrwell and Smallwood. Not to mention the cause owes its continued strength after Redgrass to Queen Rohanne) who were “drawn to him.” There’s the rumors that Daemon thought that he could marry Princess Daenerys and Rohanne of Tyrosh, but even the biased Maester Yandel said that claim only developed long after the wedding from a few Blackfyre supporters, which is a few steps removed from the original source. I believe that version of the story was an attempt by the Westerosi Blackfyre supporters to acknowledge Rohanne of Tyrosh’s invaluable contributions to the cause of the exiles while still maintaining the romanticism of a Daemon/Daenerys forbidden romance. It absolutely blows my mind that Daemon gets more flak for what he might have said at fourteen than Daeron does for helping a teenaged girl and her two-week-old son get banished for something her father said. Because Daeron is called “the Good” and thus incapable of doing wrong, obviously.

But outrageously, the fandom has to headcanon abusive behavior on Daemon to make him look like a villain. Seriously, I’ve heard people claim he was an abusive father to Daemon II, cheated on or never loved Rohanne, would have killed his nephews, and tried to rape Princess Daenerys based on no canonical evidence (in fact, the evidence goes against the honorable father of at least nine presented in canon). Even a Daemon-hater like Yandel had to concede that Daemon’s love was for the mother of his children to whom he was married for 12 years. Daemon died protecting his son Aegon from the Raven’s Teeth arrows; he’d never hurt his children. As for the children of others, his faction during the First Blackfyre did not kill children (in fact, Quentyn Ball spared Lady Penrose’s youngest son, some say on Daemon’s orders), especially not those too young to fight. The fandom’s portrayal of Daemon as a vicious monster really serves to emphasize how little evidence they have that Daeron II was a truly good person; the man with grudges against two of his father’s underaged rape victims isn’t a hero, so they have to make his rival an even bigger villain despite it being complete nonsense in canon? Can I have at least a balanced depiction of a Daemon who loved his wife and kids, even if they do think he was an ambitious reactionary?

An especially infuriating piece of fandom hypocrisy is that to make Daemon sexist, they have to demonize or erase all of the female influence in his life. Example one is that for his first 12 years, he was raised as the son of Daena the Defiant, who GRRM said in an SSM raised him alone in the Red Keep. Some people in fandom claim she was an ambitious woman who wanted a son so she could be Aegon’s Queen over Naerys, which is a claim so insulting in its wrongness (Daena could’ve been Queen in her own right, having an illegitimate son actually hurt her chances of queenship and a stable future, she referred to Daemon as hers alone so she never wanted to acknowledge his father, she never agreed to wed a man after Baelor, etc) I’m shocked the people who make it can call themselves feminists with a straight face. Others are kinder toward the Daena-Daemon relationship, saying that Daena must’ve died before Daemon was four so she couldn’t pass on her ideals of honor and self-sacrifice for one’s children; this completely ignores what GRRM said about Daena “raising” Daemon alone, meaning he knew her well enough to remember her. Both these ideas about Daena either demonize one of the most beautiful mother-son pairs in Targaryen history (she loved that kid so much she put him ahead of her own reputation and chance at being Queen. I cry.) or they take away her influence in order to claim that Daemon had no female role models growing up. A mother like Daena, strong-willed, independent, a sportswoman, would’ve doubtless have shaped Daemon’s opinions on women, and especially on mothers of bastards. He may have grown up knowing a woman didn’t necessarily need a husband to be happy, that she could shoot and ride as well as a man, and that a princess could with smallfolk and minor nobles on her own. She was far away from a submissive woman and was Daemon’s sole parent until he was 12, and you mean to tell me her son was a raging misogynist? Nope, I don’t buy it.

Fandom also erases Daemon’s other important female figure: Rohanne of Tyrosh. Elite Tyroshi women are most similar to elite Dornishwomen out of all the ladies of Westeros; I say this because the Archon’s daughter was to serve as a cupbearer for Prince Doran without having been betrothed to Quentyn, indicating that they are valued as political actors for their families outside of marriage alliances. Tyrosh is a mercantile society where the elites don’t like to fight, which traditionally equalizes roles between the sexes. Rohanne was the reason the Blackfyre cause survived for so long; she didn’t need help from Bittersteel escaping to her own fucking country, rather the landless Blackfyre supporters needed her protection after they lost everything at Redgrass. Without her giving them a stable base of operations (and certainly using her dowry to pay for their accommodations), they wouldn’t have been cohesive enough for Aegor to create the Golden Company. I realize that Rohanne has very little canonical characterization, but neither do Princess Daenerys and Myriah Martell, and that doesn’t stop Fandom from writing fanfics and meta on these two while ignoring Rohanne. On a similar note, prominent meta writers claim that the Blackfyre cause is obviously based on the Jacobites (no, Daemon Blackfyre was based in part on James Scott the Duke of Monmouth, who was staunchly anti-Jacobite. Just because these writers don’t know about British history in depth doesn’t mean that they can make spurious claims), and use this comparison to make headcanons for how the Blackfyre court in exile operated. For some Unfathomable reason, these headcanons never include the invaluable contributions that the female Stuarts made to the cause; Queen Mary and Princess Louisa were much more popular than the charmless James II and the drunken womanizer Charles III, having great relations with the French court and funding the education of the daughters of Jacobite exiles (it was said that even Queen Anne wept when Princess Louisa died, for she had hoped to wed her son to him). For a fandom who loves to make headcanons about minor female asoiaf characters, and loves to show off its (rather one-dimensional) knowledge of history, I see no such fics and metas for the female Blackfyres. I guess Feminism™ can’t be wasted on the wives and daughters of “traitors.” Just ask Sansa Stark.

To conclude, Daeron II was not a feminist king who raised the status of women in Westeros; in fact, he used his power as prince and king to banish Barba Bracken and wed Princess Elaena off to an ally. Daemon Blackfyre was raised by a strong single mother and was successfully married to an older foreign woman, and enjoyed female support for his cause, so calling him a misogynist seems like a leap to me. I’d make the argument that it’s Fandom with the misogyny problem, as they ignore the suffering, contributions, and characterization of female characters they don’t like in order to prop up a “sexism” narrative that contradicts canon. Just because other people bleat about how sexist, racist, and ableist Blackfyre supporters like me are, it doesn’t mean it’s true.