#I've never seen anyone else talk about this

[yandere-daydreams]

Let's say the reader actually did leave the country. Somehow managed to get money to do so as well (I feel like Geto would be the type to stash money under the bed. Doesn't trust nonsorcerers handling his money kinda deal) Would he track reader down?

I can definitely see him going the manipulative route where he's like. "I've changed" and all the other bullshit excuses. Also, I can imagine Reader freaking out on their own, he's probably had them locked away so badly that they're not even used to society anymore. So much that maybe crawling back to Geto would be a better option? Though he would for sure make sure they could never escape again.

this is in reference to my divorce hcs, as seen here.

honestly i do not think there is any fate worse than being with suguru,,, even if you are hungry, cold, struggling, and terrified of anyone and everyone you cross paths with, you've just got to remind yourself that all of those things would still be true if you were with suguru and you'd have to do it all in a pair of cat ears and a muzzle. at least, like this, you get to suffer with your humanity in-tact.

but, if you do get away, then he will come after you, and if he comes after you, then he's not going home without you safely tucked away in his arms. if you're doing poorly enough, there's a good chance he might try to be civil about it, that he'll show up on your shoebox apartment with those big, sad eyes and a 'i can't live without you' kind of tone, telling you all about how sorry he is, how much the girls miss you, how if you'd only told him you were unhappy, he would've done anything in his power to change. and, if you go home without a fight (less because you believe him and more because you realize there's no better way out of this), he might even try to change, to be a good husband, to give you the illusion of freedom where he denies you the real thing. you'll still be in a cage, of course, but the bars will much better hidden then before.

if you're doing well for yourself or just out-right refuse to talk to him in the prior scenario, he won't play as nice. anyone else might have trouble smuggling an unconscious captive across national borders, but suguru's got a way of talking to people, and it won't be long until you're being ferried back to your rightful home by the loyalist members of his cult. you'll have some immediate restrictions to deal with (a broken ankle, the leash keeping you tied to his bedpost, etc.), but your worst punishments will be much more long-term. he may have been kind enough to leave you some privacy in your previous arrangement, but now, he's not going to be able to breathe unless you're sitting pretty in his lap, hands bound behind your back and mouth stuffed with something thick enough to muffle your complaints into senseless, pretty noises. no more afternoons spent in his temple courtyard, no more books or games or creature comforts - just suguru and whatever whims he deems fit to bend you to, that day. he might like to pass himself off as a loving owner, but let no one say he doesn't keep his most precious pet on a short leash.

[maddy-k-reads-all-day]

Thinking about the "Do you Feel Safe Tape"

Honestly we should talk about the different reactions to 'who do you trust' a bit more.

Wooly - Wooly seems surprised that you trust him. I couldn't help but think it's partly because we like seem to like Amanda and Amanda hates him. Also considering Amanda doesn't trust him, he probably hasn't had anyone say they trusted him in a very long time and it was probably shocking. Then Amanda tells us she felt that way a long time ago and Wooly looks sad. I've noticed throughout the game that he seems to get sad whenever Amanda talks about not liking him anymore. He gets immediately sad when Amanda says that you have to think about who you can trust, before she even mentions. I think whatever he did to break her trust, he might actually feel really bad about it. (I can point out other moments he's done this too if you want). But what else is interesting is that Amanda trusted Wooly at some point. She didn't hate him from the start, something happened to change their relationship. I can't help but feel it was "recent" considering the events of the first game. Considering both Amanda and Wooly's reactions to Wooly coming back to life, I'd assume Amanda has never hated Wooly enough before to try killing him. When I say recent, I mean possibly during the years that Kate was watching the tapes and talking with Amanda.

Personally, I think both Amanda and Wooly unintentionally played a part in Kate's death and Hameln finding her. Considering Amanda's reactions to us saying "Hameln" I think they might still be monitoring Amanda and Wooly. I think that by interacting very directly with her (saying her name and stuff) could have helped them discover her identity and put her in danger. Which is not directly related to anything in this post (I mean it could be, but I'd need more evidence). That said, it's possible that him getting in the way of them remembering (once they started to gain back their memories) was exactly why she stopped trusting him. . But I think the important takeaway here is she did trust him at some point, and he feels bad that he broke that trust.

Kate: Amanda trusted Kate, and wishes she could still talk to her. Kate was one of the last people who knew Amanda when she was Rebecca. (well, positive relationships at least) Think about it. Sam is MIA. All the other librarians who knew her are DEAD. Any friends she had in school or whatever are definitely full grown adults if they didn't get trapped in the show (idk, like if they were watching it cuz it was their friends show or whatever). Every person we know who knew Amanda is probably dead now. Kate was the last one. Now that she remembers, she keeps saying she wishes she could still talk to Kate whenever we mention her, and Wooly looks like he feels bad. Now that she remembers who she was. Now that she remembers Rebecca, she wants to talk with Kate, maybe the way they used to. That could be why she's so angry with him. Why she tried to kill him AFTER they found Kate died (in the Wooly's birthday tape) but had only hurt him when they realized Riley was watching the tapes and not Kate (in the original in your neighborhood tape). Wooly might've caused her to miss her chance to talk to one of the few people who knew her as Rebecca. That was recent though, I think she lost trust in him over time as he kept blocking her attempts to reach out to Kate

Sam: She says Sam was trusting too, and that can be a mistake. She sounds so sad here, like she is going to cry. I think this confirms that Amanda doesn't hold any malice towards Sam about what happened. She understands that both of them were tricked. So idk, I guess any theories involving Amanda hating Sam for what happened are debunked now?

Hameln: Saying Hameln immediately makes Amanda stop trusting us. Wooly looks scared of Amanda yelling (as always) but I noticed he also looks kind of angry? Offended? Annoyed? I can't really tell cuz the tape gets really blurry. I've seen people say that Wooly doesn't react to the meatman or Hameln, but I think he does it's just more subtle. I don't know what else to say here, the clip goes by so fast.

Meatman: Again, both of them react to this. Amanda immediately gets pissed. And like, reasonably so. I've heard that the game won't let you progress past this point if you do this apparently, so like... the meatman is serious. Wooly looks shocked and then immediately motions at us not to say that. But like, it's a different surprise then when you answer "Wooly" he seems horrified. Like this is a pretty messed up thing to say. I'm not 100% sure what the meatman's deal is but like... both Amanda and Wooly seem to dislike him in the first and second game. Also is it just me or is it kind of odd that they only dislike the butcher? Like, there are variants of him in all the shops in the first game and Wooly and Amanda don't really seem to mind him, but they both don't like being in the butcher's. When only the meatman's buildings appear, Wooly looks pretty concerned, and then really scared when they enter, and asks her to take them someplace else. Amanda has a full-blown meltdown over not wanting to go in and when we enter she screams at us to let her out. I find this scene interesting because I don't think either of them are in control. Wooly is trying to distract her from Kate's death (or at least that's what I think the "something bad happened" means) by going a bit off-script and controlling the story a little. It doesn't seem like he was the one who messed with the stores. Amanda didn't either. What if this was the meatman? Like... punishing them for going off script by like reminding them of his looming presence or whatever? Idk. That whole scene was WEIRD in hindsight. Even though we never enter the butcher shop in the second game, his presence looms over us the entire time. Almost makes me think he's the real one put in their too keep the kids under control. They are both terrified of him after all and he seems to be connected with the surgeon who trapped them in there. Sorry this got a bit on topic but I think I might be getting somewhere.

But let's move on to the answers for the "what scares you" question.

"Amanda" or "you" - Question, has anyone tried Rebecca? I've only seen the answer compilations use "amanda" or "you". Amanda breaks our heart here by being hurt that after all this time we're still afraid of her. Ouch.

Hameln - Amanda gets terrified and says not to bring them up. I think Hameln is definitely watching these tapes.

Meatman - Wooly finally reacts to something, and bro is freaked out. Idk if it's by the mention of the meatman, Amanda's anger or both. Honestly, I have no idea why her anger spells still freak them out. I guess it is pretty scary, but I feel like he should be used to it at this point. Also she can't kill him, so what is he afraid of? He doesn't seem to be worried about being the one who makes her angry anymore, but he still gets freaked out when we do it? Weird. Anyway, I find it interesting that Amanda has spent the whole first game trying to tell us all about what happened, but she draws the line at the meatman and Hameln. Wooly wasn't there to stop her before, and she still didn't want to discuss it. Honestly, it doesn't feel like she's been as eager to tell us much in this game, despite trusting us. I mean she's told us plenty about Sam and Kate, so I don't think it's that she doesn't trust us. I think she doesn't want to remember things about Hameln or the meatman. She wanted to remember who she was, she wanted to remember Sam, she wanted to remember Kate and she wanted to know what happened to her... but somehow she draws the line here. Then we see the glitches of the surgery room and the mouth. I really do agree with the theories that the meatman is connected with the people who put her and Wooly into the show. That said... why is he there? That's what I don't get. I think I might be cooking with my earlier theory though no?

Wooly - Odd. He doesn't even look hurt, just confused. We can clearly see here that Amanda is not at all afraid of Wooly, so like I don't think he's like a Hameln worker. The meatman absolutely is though. We are not hating on the meatman enough guys. DOWN WITH THAT- Anyway.

Actually the whole point of this post was to talk about what Amanda says about how we were a stranger when we met her. I think this is really important to note. Because Amanda knew Kate long before she was Amanda. Possibly before "Amanda the Adventurer" even came to be. Of course Amanda trusted her. But she didn't know Riley. She tells us that she trusts us. This is HUGE. I mean, considering everything Amanda has been through. She barely knows us. She has EVERY DANG REASON not to trust us. Heck, I think that could be what Wooly means when he says she shouldn't talk to strangers. Because "not talking to strangers" doesn't make sense in this context. The viewer is a stranger, but if they didn't ever interact with the viewer they wouldn't have a show so Wooly's comment makes no sense. And yet, despite everything, she trusts us. Wooly looks kinda sad when she says she trusts us, probably because she trusted him once too, now she won't listen to a thing he says.

Then Joanne (I swear to god I got so mad at her in this scene) calls us and Amanda looks kind of sad when she hears that. Then looks really sad when Joanne says "that thing" I think Joanne was referring to the Wooly monster but Amanda doesn't know that. Then the possum appears and they both get really mad at it (and us for letting it mess with them). It's made very clear that both of them genuinely don't know who this guy is. It's funny because usually Amanda is the one asking us to get rid of him but this time it's Wooly.

And then let's talk about how COORDINATED THESE TWO WERE OMG. All it took was a look and a nod and they were already on the same page. If we don't help them, they manage to beat this guy up all on their own and mind you, not a single word is exchanged of a plan, they just work together. They just do it. And they do it so freaking well. Remember my Hameln theory? About how Hameln doesn't want these two on the same team because you know... two kids who can control demons who have every reason to hate Hameln and then there's THIS. When they get along they work so freaking well together. Could you imagine if they both decided to team up with their demons and beat the crap out of Hameln? Is there even a chance to be stood here? Honestly, I was also thinking, I think Hameln picked whoever Wooly is specifically for his avoidant personality, knowing that these two would clash. But clearly they don't have to.

Oh yeah, then they both get pissed AT US. I don't think we've actually seen Wooly get THIS mad at us. Like there was the time in the storybook tape but like he was not this mad. He's like... Amanda level mad here. Then they pick up the possum and throw him in the trash with still very minimal communication and ALL THE COORDINATION.

Then in the version where we do help, Amanda actually agrees with Wooly's sentiment that some strangers CAN be scary. Then without a word they both pick him up and throw him in the trash. BRO THE COORDINATION BETWEEN THESE TWO WHEN THEY WORK TOGETHER IS INSANE I NEED MORE OF IT ITS SO SMOOTH AND PLEASANT TO WATCH. Then Wooly asks if they can go home and Amanda playfully teases him "What are you scared?" Then he kinda makes this face like "yeah kinda" and she's like "c'mon let's go." she sounds a lot less annoyed with his presence then usual. Like still annoyed but also like she's kinda okay with it?

This deserves it's whole entire own post but like... I feel like gradually their relationship has improved over the course of this game. Like Amanda still doesn't trust him, there's still some rough stuff they need to work through, but she's starting to let him in again. Just a little. She's more okay with him being there. And I think people tend to overlook this when they say Wooly is evil. If Wooly was evil, why are they starting to get along again, (I mean they aren't besties again but like it's definitely a start and you can't ignore that.) Shouldn't Amanda continue to hate his guts? Instead she's actually agreed with him on some things, and they've helped each other out a bit. Like I said this is probably going to get it's own post at some point so I'll leave it here for now.

Holy crap did you actually read all this? OMG thanks. I did not realize I wrote so much WOW. BTW, I was watching those "all answers" videos along with a zero-commentary playthrough of the original so like, I'm not pulling this from memory at all.

[notmorbid]

these violent delights.

dialogue prompts from these violent delights by micah nemerever.

i never told you my name.

who puts those awful ideas in your head?

you're forever assuming the worst.

what's that face? you look like you're going to cry.

you're one of those people who worry all the time, aren't you?

i don't worry, i ruminate. they're distinct actions.

nothing made you. you just are.

beautiful things are supposed to hurt.

people tell you you're shy all the time, don't they?

i don't know how i ever got on without you.

a little trouble is a good thing for a young person.

i wasn't born yesterday. i know what kids get up to.

it's good to have guns to stick to.

you could do anything to me and i'd let you.

i'm not ready to be seen. not yet.

i don't need you to treat me respectfully. i'm not made of glass.

tell me you love me, at least. please. i need to know somebody does.

do i look normal? i can't tell if i look normal.

you can get away with anything, as long as you act like an authority on the truth.

don't tell me what i want.

you know you're just about the worst liar i've ever met.

i don't think you've ever felt anything that didn't hurt you.

you're so square, you're a cube.

i just want you to believe me when i tell you you're worth something.

there are limits to what you can expect people to understand, without living it.

you can't fight everybody all the time. you still have to live with them.

i forget how blue the sky can be outside the city.

i'm going to push you off a cliff, you fucking boy scout.

thank you for trusting me with this.

be a kid while you still can.

please believe in the things i try to tell you, instead of the things you think you deserve to be told.

if the sun touched you for even a moment, you'd go up in flames. like a vampire.

your voice changes when you're angry.

what a lonely, dreary thing it is to know the truth.

you never look away, even when your eyes are closed, but i'm never certain you can see what's really there.

tell me you need me. in those words.

can i tell you something? that i'm all but certain you won't believe?

i never lie to you. but sometimes, i wish i could.

you never let me pretend the truth is alright when it isn't.

you have a profound, elusive sadness about you.

you didn't. please tell me you didn't.

you and your awful little games.

why would i bother to grow my own conscience when you're always around to pester me?

you're going to help me escape.

this house is a shadowbox, never meant for human things.

you have no right to stop me, and you're not going to try.

you're sweet, when you want to be.

do you want me to kill ____? i mean it.

it might do you good to be an orphan.

you're just so sincerely creepy.

wealthy people pay handsomely for the privilege of ignoring cries for help.

i've never seen you like that before. not once.

i've decided to learn to be impulsive.

the worst damage humans do isn't rooted in malice, but in thoughtlessness.

there's such a thing as right and wrong. anyone can figure out the difference if they're willing to think for themselves.

there's no part of you i can't see.

i don't want to hurt you. please don't let me.

you're ridiculous, sometimes. but that's alright.

i don't want you right now. go home.

i'm not like you. i don't even have a shape of my own to hold anything else in place.

i'll never matter the way you do, and you know it.

say what you need to say.

if you say the word 'deserve' one more time, i'm driving us off a bridge.

i've been meaning to talk to you about ____.

i'm worried about what you're getting into.

you don't see me. you can't. you never could.

it's your life. you're entitled to make your own mistakes.

i want you to know you deserve better. you don't have to put up with ____.

you scare the hell out of me. you really do.

you look the same way you always have.

i was worried i'd lost you.

i'll take care of you. i don't need you to be brave.

all i want to do is make you happy, and you're the unhappiest person i've ever met.

i would rather be cruel than weak.

i want you to let me be nice to you today. i don't care if you think you deserve it.

this place looks like somewhere in a jigsaw puzzle.

it's always been real for me. every second.

please don't say anything to my mother.

we can't fix it if you don't tell me what happened.

i'll call you when i can stand the sight of you. don't hold your breath.

hiding the truth is still lying.

i thought you'd finally trust me if you knew i'd kill for you.

i'm just as much of a monster as you are.

i was missing part of myself my whole life, until i met you.

righteous fury leaves no space for fear.

you can always talk to me. about anything, okay? i love you no matter what.

you played [game] in school, didn't you?

no one tolerates boredom worse than the idle rich.

someone needs to be looking after you.

you know you can't actually stop me, right?

i want to be able to look at you.

when you need to, you will understand.

i'm only ever early when i'm afraid.

people talk themselves into the strangest things when they want to look impressive.

in the end, there's no difference between trusting someone and underestimating them.

[violent-optimism]

Friendly reminder that when Heavy tells his sisters "some men from work are coming over", they get really excited because they think it's Spy and Sniper.

Spy and Sniper are canonically considered the hottest ones.

[opulence-is-decadence]

Does anyone else remember Ferngully? One of my core childhood memories is renting VHS and watching this film over and over again at age 4.

[lorephobic]

literally nobody asked for it, but here's my list of saltburn essays that i've slowly been drafting over the course of the last week which WILL be required reading for anybody trying to engage with me about this movie. my very personal saltburn 101 syllabus just dropped

A Wolf in Deer's Clothing: Saltburn's Attempt at Innocence

an examination of party costumes and our character's last attempts to masquerade as something they're not: felix—an angel, all-forgiving and all-knowing, something to be worshiped; and oliver—a prey animal, prey to class-divide, prey to saltburn, prey to felix.

thoughts about oliver specifically are loosely organized in my #bambi tag

A Midsummer Night's Mare: Farleigh Start as the Ultimate Victim of Saltburn

a farleigh character study, about the ways he was mistreated and manipulated at saltburn, about fighting to stay alive and the scars left behind by knowing when to give in

alternatively titled "QuickStart", may be adapted into a conclusive essay specifically focusing on oliver and farleigh's relationship

The Eye of the Beholder: On Saltburn's Voyeurism & Violence [working title]

how wealth and class pushes the catton's toward the volatile reality of being able to look, but not touch. on desire and the lack thereof, and portraying yourself as an object to be desired

may end up as two separate essays on wealth and aestheticism but i'm pushing toward a conclusive essay about the intersection of the two, which i feel is at the heart of saltburn

alternatively titled "Poor Man's Pudding: A Melvillian Approach to Saltburn's Class", again, may be adapted into it's own essay

Gender-Fluid: A Study in Sexuality and Saltburn's Desire to be Dry

a deep dive into the bodily fluids of saltburn and how oliver upsets the standard of men who are just so lovely and dry. on the creative choice to lean into the messy wetness of sex and desire and the audience's instinct toward repulsion

a celebration of the grotesque and an examination of why we would label it as such

least developed of the four, heavily inspired by @charnelpit's lovely post about the fluids in saltburn

if anybody is actually interested in any of these, i can work toward something closer to a finished piece instead of just bullet points and quotes in a google doc, but mostly this is so i can share my very brief takes on a multitude of themes in saltburn that have been haunting me

edit for people seeing this in the future: all posts about my essays are being organized into my #saltburn 101 tag if you’re interested in following these through to development!

[boomstab-papa]

This is why feminism is for men, too. Why men are not just "allowed" to be feminists, they NEED to be.

When Rando Joe has been told by patriarchy his whole life that he's entitled to be the center of attention whenever he wants, then he wanders into leftist spaces and someone tells him "hey, don't talk over other people when they're talking, especially about their own experiences", Joe is not likely to believe women telling him "we are not 'silencing you', you just need to chill a bit". His feelings have been hurt! He had something to say!! He's probably not going to listen to that explanation. But he might believe a man explaining that to him.

When Rando Joe sees someone expressing frustration at people who look like him - white, men, able-bodied, what have you - and starts thinking "wait why does everyone hate me for my immutable traits", Joe is not likely to believe women telling him "we do not 'hate you' personally, but also, you have to accept that some people will have a harder time trusting you because of their past experiences with people who look like you and you can't take that personally". His feelings have been hurt! They shouldn't be mean to him like that!! He's probably not going to listen to that explanation. But he might believe a man explaining that to him.

Because misogyny is so prevalent that studies show that generally, men simply do not want to listen to women, be corrected by a woman, or follow a woman's directions. Unless any given man has done a LOT of work to examine this and try to deprogram this attitude, odds are it's going to control a lot of what he thinks, and this work will never "end". That's just how unpacking privilege and bigotry works. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2051570719828687 https://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/yourvoice/classroom_talk.shtml https://web.stanford.edu/~eckert/PDF/ZimmermanWest.pdf https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/valr103&div=39&id=&page= https://www.jstor.org/stable/3346669

Meanwhile studies show that feminists do not "hate men". The idea that they do comes from... wait for it... misogynists. I grew up in a Rush Limbaugh-listening household and wow did that guy love telling us how "feminazis hate men". Another comment on this post linked this very poignant article so thank you genuinemusic for sharing it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2023/11/27/feminists-dont-hate-men-according-to-new-research/

So. Maybe the above comment thinks that women and leftists are always telling him "we hate men" because he still hasn't deprogrammed that part of his alt-right pipeline experience yet. Maybe he thinks that women and leftists pointing out his "immutable traits" (man, white, etc.) - and the privilege it affords him - is an attack and an insult. Maybe he thinks that being told "hey you need to chill before you talk over XYZ on XYZ" hurts his feelings and it feels like an attack and an insult. Maybe he's had a different experience I haven't described here. I'm not a mind-reader, I just read a lot.

Yes, leftists cannot be out here hating masculinity or hating men. I'm not going to pretend that I've never seen anyone behaving like this but most people do not do that. Also it can't be on women to lead this charge and never ever hurt men's feelings "or else I'll become a misogynist", as the previous comment says. If you're gonna be unpacking your bigotry, it's going to fucking hurt. But it will be much more than just this discomfort. It's much better for you than getting alt-right brainwashed.

Statistically, we need way more men talking men through this.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[thefabelmans2022]

did you ever notice how merry doesn't actually volunteer for the quest? pippin is the one who assumes he and merry will go, gandalf vouches for them both, but merry doesn't say a word for the entire encounter. it's a stark difference from his insistence on going with frodo in the conspiracy chapter, and i think it's because he's totally lost his confidence. in the beginning, he's very confident and fully believes he'll be able to lead the group through the old forest to bree with no trouble, and then they all almost die twice basically immediately. notice that when they get to bree, he refuses to go to the prancing pony with the others, deciding instead to stay in their room alone? and then of course he gets attacked by nazgul, which definitely doesn't help matters. i think by the time they get to Rivendell, he no longer believes himself capable of helping frodo. he'll do it, obviously, if frodo or gandalf or elrond or pippin ask him to, but i think he's at a point where he no longer believes he'll be any good.

[sparky-is-spiders]

Jonelias Week Day 1 (Which is definitely today I swear), for the prompt "No Powers AU"

This one... maybe got away from me. This is actually only the first half of what I've written so far, and probably the first third overall! I do plan to post this to Ao3 at some point (although I suspect I'll need to do a lengthy round of editing first lmao). It's some very self-indulgent nonsense, which is a lot of what I write, but now it's getting put in the main tags of a ship during said ship's event week. So. It may also be a little bit "aromantic dude tries to figure out what having a crush is supposed to be like." Also a lot of "dude who took Principals of Accounting once pretending it knows what office work is like." Anyway, quick warning before we begin, and the rest will be under the read-more:

Stalking (played for laughs) for most of the fic.

Just. A weird amount of obsession.

Ok that should be it I think. Fic under the cut.

Jon's new boss was, quite possibly, the most boring man in the world. He wore the same outfit every day (pale dress shirt with dark unpatterned tie and gray slacks and matching suit jacket). The only personal effect in his entire office was a potted plant on the windowsill (some sort of succulent, and definitely fake). He always arrived to work exactly half an hour early and left exactly half an hour late. The only hobby he appeared to show any interest in was scheduling, which he seemed to find both deeply engaging and remarkably irritating. In fact, he was apparently so opposed to the idea of mixing his work with his personal life that he might as well not have existed beyond the walls of their office. Jon had never been more fascinated by anyone else in his entire life.

It stared with the transfer to the accounting department. Elias had met with him personally to get him acclimated to his new role. He had been blandly polite, and blandly handsome, and Jon had stopped listening to him about five minutes into their conversation. It was probably bad form, really. The software Elias was droning on and on about sounded like it was about to become a central feature of his days. He really should've been paying attention to it. Instead, he pretended to make eye contact while zeroing in on the top of Bouchard's forehead (a very useful trick, really) and became inordinately focused on the small lock of hair that had fallen across it. It was terribly distracting, and Jon had wondered how he hadn't noticed it. And then he wondered how it had come to be there. And then he had built up an entire story involving a murder, an illicit affair with the assistant director of marketing, and the potted succulent. And then he had noticed Bouchard eying him with what could've been suspicion or amusement or irritation or nothing whatsoever, and had been forced to rapidly pretend to care about their company's bad debt expense policy. Bouchard had indulged him, and had spoken with the calm authority of someone who knew what they were talking about, and had even managed to avoid being overtly condescending (a feat forever out of Jon's reach). At the end he had shaken Jon's hand (with a nice, firm grip), and had told him "I'm looking forward to working with you, I'm sure you'll make a wonderful member of our team." Jon had left that meeting with a mind shrouded in a fog of boredom and a faint sensation of warmth which he decided was best attributed to curiosity and left otherwise unexamined. Over the next few weeks, Jon had tried to subtly inquire into Bouchard's life. At the time, he had been naively under the impression that surely he must have let slip something about his life; some odd quirk or funny story or harmless bit of information which could justify Jon's blooming curiosity. Unfortunately; "He lives in Chelsea, I'm pretty sure?" (Sasha) "He's currently in a meeting. Honestly Jon, you'll be better off just sending an email. Now can I please get back to work?" (Rosie, probably lying about the meeting) "He actually lives here in the office. Set up a cozy little home away from home in one of the storage closets and sneaks out at night to raid the canteen. And he's having an affair with the assistant director of marketing." (Tim, definitely lying (but maybe a mind reader? Also, full of brilliant ideas for places Jon could maybe set up a cot whenever he needs to stay overnight)) Clearly, Jon would have to take matters into his own hands if he wanted answers. That was fine. It could be his own private little research project.

Jon liked to think that the entire thing had actually been quite reasonable, and that he had acted within the bounds of their pre-established relationship as employee and supervisor. Surely any rational person had to realize that nobody could possibly be that uninteresting. Anyone would be curious as to what dark secrets Bouchard his behind his well-tailored suits and polite, professional demeanor. … perhaps most rational persons would not meticulously record the movements, behavior, and daily appearance of their colleague in a discreet notebook (with annotations, color-coding, and graphs where appropriate), but Jon had always prided himself on his dedication to research and understanding. So far Jon had collected frustratingly little data. If Bouchard was hiding anything, it wasn't apparent from his schedule (see pages 8-13, figure 2.b), his eating habits (see page 22), or his lone plant (see page five, figure 1.c). His breaks did seem specially timed to avoid other people (and he appeared not to engage in many social behaviors generally), but he never acted irritated or otherwise unhappy to encounter one of his subordinates, so Jon wasn't entirely sure if it was deliberate avoidance or simple coincidence. Really, the only truly odd thing about him was his inexplicable interest in Jon. That very morning, for example, Bouchard had stopped by his cubicle for a fifteen minute discussion on the upcoming Annual Team Luncheon, an event Jon had never attended before (due to an annual migraine which coincidentally always happened to occur on the exact date of the luncheon), which Jon did not plan to attend, and which honestly sounded like some sort of violation of the Geneva Convention. The topic itself was not especially odd (small talk was an archaic tradition which had stubbornly clung on in every workplace Jon had ever set foot in), but Bouchard's low propensity for inter-office socialization combined with the fact that he had both chosen Jon specifically as his conversational partner was… highly suspicious. Most people who encountered Jon inevitably concluded that he was more effort than he was worth (an attitude Jon mostly appreciated).

And of course, there had also been their interaction two days ago, when Elias had paused briefly to inquire as to whether Jon would be staying late, and what he was working on, and if he might perhaps consider heading home soon because there was only so much overtime they could pay him. Or on Friday, when he had managed to hold two separate conversations with Jon where very little was said. Honestly, Jon somewhat suspected that Elias had spoken to him more in the past few weeks than he had spoken to any of their colleagues for the entire time Jon had been there to observe him. Most of Jon's notes were now dedicated to their interactions. From his cot in the unused storage room (which was indeed a good place to stay overnight, thank you Tim), he could jot down everything he recalled about their interaction; it had begun at 8:32 and had concluded at 8:47; the weather was warm and slightly humid, although the office interior remained at a comfortable 21 °C. Bouchard's shirt had been a nice, cool gray, which complemented the silver of his eyes. Jon (who had been busy digging for his favorite pen (the ink was a lovely deep green color, and it was usually kept on the left side of the top desk drawer, and Jon had no idea where else it could have possibly gone)) had settled on "irritation" as his tone, which Bouchard either had not noticed or had not cared enough to acknowledge. He had easily dominated the conversation, and Jon could admit in the sanctity of his research journal that his voice had been soothing enough to cool away some of Jon's annoyance. He wrote his conclusion: Subject behaved near-identically in tone, posture, body language, and apparent mood as he has in all previous communications. Subject displayed no strong thoughts or opinions on subject of discussion nor conversational partner. Interaction was pleasant but slightly dull, no new information discovered. It was almost exactly the same as every previous conclusion. Jon had to admit, so many months with so little progress was… discouraging. He shifted on the narrow mattress and winced when his movements aggravated his backache (which was surely unrelated to his frequent occupancy of the cot). It was becoming more and more apparent that the only possible solution was to do some actual, direct investigation. His first idea (break into Bouchard's office) seemed a tad far (also, he didn't know how to pick locks). His second idea (follow him home) seemed a stretch further than the previous one, and was perhaps best saved as a last resort. His third idea (something something computers? (perhaps "idea" was a bit generous)) would almost certainly require Sasha, who would have questions Jon couldn't answer. He flipped idly through his notes, half-skimming, half-thinking. It was only when his gaze landed on figure 2.b, Weekly Schedule of E. Bouchard, that he actually came up with something reasonable. Something actionable.

[carouselunique]

Is it true that there's no animosity between you and... you know, you know who. You never talk about her in any way. I guess I'm curious. You guys seemed like really close friends and then just weren't friends at all. And there was some stuff she said that seemed very targeted at you...

I don't know if she feels any animosity toward me or not any more. Our mutual friends have said she doesn't and I take them on their word in that regard, assuming that if they have an answer for me it's because they're aware how she feels. I wouldn't know and it's not my place to put words in her mouth.

I haven't spoken to her/about her in a long time and the only time she even crosses my mind is when people bring her up to me. As for me feeling any animosity? I'll admit my feelings on her these days are complicated and way too nuance-core for people who aren't my friends to hear about but I wouldn't call them animosity in any way. I inherently want people my friends care about to live well because I care about my friends, and anyone my friends care about by proxy and I still share friends with her. I would never wish ill on people my friends care about so animosity doesn't fit into that by definition. I'd say I'm hurt more than anything and even then I've worked through a lot of it with trusted friends who have helped me deal with my emotions in a healthy way.

(Besides, my own life struggles keep me from even being able to invest time into animosity. I have to expend that energy loving my family, doing my best to support them during our struggles. And I've never been a hateful person it isn't in me. I would rather play 'Hot To Go' by Chappell Roan and teach my dad how to do the hand gestures to help him strengthen his muscles again than focus on hating anyone...)

I try not to think about her because it hurts. I often think that people forget that I'm a real person outside of her sphere, and that I wouldn't want to talk about what happened because I truly did consider her a friend for a long time. And when someone I consider a friend appears to not regard me with care any more suddenly and I don't even have closure on that... well... it hurts... A lot. Of course I never talk about it.

And I'm not stupid, I have seen some stuff she's said that I've gathered was about me. I remind myself that she has a right to vent in her own spaces and I truly mean that... it's just a shame that her own spaces have people who then have taken these things to me to show me (after all, I wouldn't have even seen these things myself if not for third-party anons going 'this u?') saying it is my own fault because I was a terribly cruel friend or my own fault for not listening to warnings about her when I had the chance and that makes me a stupid gullible bitch. You lot haven't seen some of the awful shit about me from some of her more ravenous fans and haters I've seen over the years that I've had to let roll off my back in the fear it would bring backlash - not even to me, to her. I don't want to be the cause of any hatred going to anyone.

Also I'm just not going to ever talk about the details of our fallen friendship or our fallen relationship. That's private. She might be a public person to some extent but I never was, even if I do gain some measure of small fandom for my work one day I'm just private about personal matters especially raw ones. I almost deleted this ask entirely but Idk I never stated that it bothers me when people talk to me about her from my own mouth, so I guess that's what this ramble is.

If you send me anything about Lily Orchard it will not be addressed. I am not a part of her life not even through our mutual friends. I do not know or care what's going on with her public/personal life. I haven't kept up. I will never keep up. Don't treat me as an extension of the situation because I am not in the situation. In the most plainly stated sense of the word: Leave me the Hell alone. (...pretty please.)

All I've wanted this entire time was to be left alone to process everything in a healthy, peaceful way. I'm workin' on it.

[gay-furry-poseidon-lover]

All of this is very fair, and good to read about. Though I do think Op has a point about the black and white of how people treat Epic's Odysseus verses anyone who gets in his way, and how hypocritical the treatment of Calypso specifically is if you look at how like. Any man in greek myths is treated. I believe Odysseus took women as slaves on his ship in The Illiad. Sometimes its someone else but he is one of the people who said they must kill the son of Hector, he dropped this baby off of a wall. Sure you can argue "it was willed by Zues," but I dont think that makes it any better morally. When he gets home he commands that an unfaithful servant be strung up and tortured untill death, as well as killing every female servant who was unfaithful to him. We dont neccesarily know to what degree, or even if engagement with the suitors was consensual. But all of this is to say that there really is no true good or evil character. I say all of these things as someone who really enjoys the Odyssey and Odysseus. We can recognize that acting in the ways he did would not be okay or acceptable in our society today, but we still tell his story and praise him for his loyalty and endurance.

Epic is a work of fiction inspired by The Odyssey. It is not meant to follow it exactly, nor portray an accurate example of how the story plays out in the book, and we must keep this in mind. In greek myth there are many versions of each story, many differing translations and interpretations, and long before they were written down they were passed on through oral tradition. I approach this with the mind that with each new retelling we learn about the time it was written, and what biases a translator or story teller may have let leak into it. Not that they are neccesarily false, just different, and products of different people.

A persons first introduction to Calypso will certainly influence their opinions on her as she is present in many different pieces of media. And what i think is most important is that we remember she is fictional. She's a goddess, a nymph, someone that exists only in the stories we tell. And the same with Odysseus. Its very likely writers took inspirations from real heroes and their experiences, but the Odysseus we know today is not a real person. Neither him nor Calypso are personally affected by the things we say about them. You can't conflate theorizing about the different possibilities of how an ancient story went with say, denying the story of a modern victim of rape. These are very different things in very different contexts. I thought fans of greek myth would be on the same page about this, what with the plentiful rape, incest, murder, slavery, and beastiality described in myths. But apparantly it needs to be said that enjoying stories that contain violence and crimes like these does not mean you condone or support these actions taking place in our modern society.

People are free to talk about Zues and enjoy his character without constantly giving disclaimers that we can never forgive him and he has done bad things. Because we know that, its established, its clear. People dont accuse you of being a rape sympathizer or being into fucking cows just because you mention Zues. Hes low hanging fruit though. Hera, Aphrodite, Artemis and Apollo, theyve all done horrific shit. But we dont immediately critisize anyone who talks of them fondly. Achilles did it with a corpse cause he thought she was just that beautiful. Obviously thats gross and bad. Liking his stories doesnt automatically mean you agree with that.

I'm not on tiktok (thank god) but ive seen a couple videos and posts that are very black and white. Calypso is an evil abusor and if you like her than you support abuse and rape. It's annoying as hell. I've been abused, ive been in coercive sexual relationships, I know first hand that thats bad. Duh. And if you find comfort in relating to Odysseus because of your own experiences, and that leads you to hate Calypso, thats okay. If people talking about Calypso is upsetting or triggering to you, don't engage with it by all means. Take care of yourself. Block, hit not interested, scroll away.

But what you should not do is tell random people on the internet that they are as bad as rapist abusors because they were talking about the one sided love of a nymph goddess and a mortal man in a musical inspired by anime and video games.

People are able to sepparate fiction from reality with so many other characters, why is it that Calypso is such a controversial one. Her character, and her backstory, have so much to explore and think about, and we can do that without believing that she is without any flaws or faults.

Think of her what you want, say about her what you want. Just stop projecting whatever beliefs you have about what it means to enjoy a fictional character onto everyone who disagrees with you. If you are do passionate about justice for victims, go outside, engage with local communities, see a friend, see a therapist. Speak out about the real, alive abusors and rapists who hold positions of power in our world right now. That will bring much more good to the world than starting discourse on tiktok, I promise you. (not directed at op or reblogger, but for people in general.)

Something I'm starting to notice about this fandom; y'all can like Epic's version of Odysseus without trying to paint Calypso as a rapist.

Odysseus in the original tale did cheat on his wife. Several times. And there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. But trying to paint him as blameless and all the other women as rapists for seducing him is not the winning move y'all think it is.

Like Tiktok is becoming the worst when it comes to the topic of Calypso.

[microwave-core]

Very appropriate day to remember this moment from three years ago

[johnny-chaos]

does anybody remember the . anime character who was made of exploding barrels during benrey's final boss fight. that was real right ?

[brutallyboned]

There was a time I was confused about my sexuality because as a gay man I like thinking of and writing fictional scenarios where gay men are either coerced or seduced into compulsary heterosexuality. But I'm not actually attracted to women at all in real life. I would never want to do what I fantasized about, I just liked thinking about it.

Still, I had these fantasies, so I must be bisexual, right? I even identified as bi for a while. It was very helpful for me to see, for example, asexual people who write smut or lesbians who write m/m smut to realize that fake fantasies in your head don't have anything to do with your sexual identity. And doubly reassuring was profic people reiterating that writing/drawing/thinking about fucked up scenarios doesn't mean you want or support that kind of thing in real life.

[born-to-lose]

I love being the always single person in my family, mad respect to my sister for constantly dating guys for the last 8 years, I would have shot myself

[nohkalikai]

'i'm a POC from south asia born and brought up' if your identity can default to POC when you're not in the global north then please also tell the class what your caste is. or are u afraid u will not be able to talk over and dismiss the experiences of fellow ''''POC'''' who are from the castes your chachi is exploiting.