#I'm an aro who has sex and this affects me as much as it affects anyone else

[tossawary]

I finished Volume 3 of SVSSS, which encompasses the main story, and currently have my bookmark sitting at the first chapter of the Airplane Extras in Volume 4. I took a bunch of quote pics but have yet to review them and add thoughts.

Every time I read SVSSS, I forget how... incredible... the inside of Shen Yuan's head is. He's fascinating.

Like, he's misogynistic (even while criticizing Airplane's own misogynistic writing), he's homophobic, AND he's transphobic. Not in a way where I think he thinks anyone deserves fewer rights than anyone else (I think he's generally a nice person, although, holy shit, I would not trust this man to craft policy of any kind) or would prevent anyone from living however they chose to live, a lot of his problematic bullshit stays inside his own head as he tries to understand the world around him using the stallion novel formulas he was given, but he's carrying around SO MUCH unexamined bias that supports his refusal to examine himself and his own desires.

Some of it reads (presumably intentionally) a LOT like the kind of conflicting, problematic bullshit a lot of queer people carry around inside their heads as they struggle to untangle themselves and their beliefs.

And while I do wish that Shen Yuan had been forced to confront and address his misogyny and transmisogyny even further than it does come up (in part because it is DEFINITELY affecting the way he thinks about gay men as well, including and especially Binghe), I do kind of... appreciate on some level that he thinks this way? From a character standpoint? Because I think it's probably realistic for a privileged young man spending a lot of time on the internet reading shit like PIDW to look at the world this way. And it's clear even through his own narration that his blindness in certain areas is causing him a lot of trouble. While I do have criticisms and personal wishes, I do appreciate the depiction of personal character development that is just... a cringeworthy mess of internalized bullshit the whole fucking time.

Also, it's SO funny to me that he reads as SO aro-ace-spectrum to me (probably gay, but generally detached from sexuality and possibly also partially from gender) AND he actually knows... the word asexual, I don't think he has a very broad understanding of asexuality... but he knows the word and yet doesn't personally identify that way. He mentally accuses both Luo Binghe (main story, before finding out Binghe is into him) and Liu Qingge (Succubus Extra) of being asexual for showing no interest in women, only to fail to reflect on how he ALSO demonstrably has no lasting personal interest in the women around them, which doesn't read as very genuine to me.

(EDIT: Again, I am not against a bisexual Shen Yuan interpretation either! I am willing to be persuaded by any author who wishes to tell a particular story. But Shen Yuan's attraction towards women often reads personally to me as very shallow and possibly insincere.)

"I willingly read PIDW, that proves I'm straight!" he sincerely thinks to himself, even though his favorite wife is the one without explicit sex scenes and he also admits to skipping over a lot of them.

"I'm able to tell when women are beautiful, that makes me straight!" thinks the guy who mentally censors nudity whenever demon women lose their clothes, and keeps telling us how "the average reader" of PIDW would react to these beautiful women instead of conveying his own attracted reactions. His actual reactions are generally centered on a woman's narrative significance. The only people he personally seems to find attractive are Luo Binghe and maybe Liu Qingge.

Though my interpretation was that he does probably experience sexual arousal and have a sex drive (see his username), which probably helps with his conviction of straightness, I'm not sure that there's any mention of Shen Yuan even masturbating at all in the entire main story of SVSSS? He never tried to hook up with anyone. Sex is apparently not a priority for him.

(EDIT: He does seem to enjoy sex with Binghe in the "Bing-mei vs. Bing-ge" Extra. He loves Binghe and likes the closeness and the physical pleasure. I appreciate the indication that they're working on moving on from the AWFUL intercourse pushed by Xin Mo's possession and possibly also the System's Scenario Pusher.)

And Shen Yuan seems to view women as being and behaving Fundamentally Differently from men and gay men as behaving Fundamentally Differently from straight men (as soon as he learns Binghe is into him, he thinks about how Binghe isn't behaving like the characters in his sister's gay, non-con, BDSM erotica novels), seeing everything through the lens of novel tropes, such that he seems to view sex and sexuality and gender as being deeply mixed with a person's personality. So he can't be a gay man, because he's too "Normal", in his mind at first, because he doesn't behave like his own mental image of "How Gay Men Behave" (or "How Women Behave / A PIDW Wife Behaves"), while also demonstrably not being anything like "the average reader" of PIDW and also apparently not caring too much about his own masculinity? Like, I do think he likes being the gentleman scholar of Qing Jing Peak, he does like appearing dignified and strong and cool, he doesn't like losing, he doesn't really like playing "damsel in distress" roles, and I do think he likes being gallant towards women, but he's not too concerned about seriously competing with figures like Luo Binghe or Liu Qingge? He's happy enough to back down and let someone else take the lead if necessary. He puts up with being put into the roles of female leads even if it embarrasses him and he rolls with the punches to his pride easily enough. He seems to have decided his Sexuality By Default, so it does make me have a lot of thoughts about whether or not he's potentially going with Gender By Default / Convenience as well.

Someone get this man some amateur and academic literature on gender and sexuality (and a lot of other stuff), stat, so he can ignore it, probably.

[galaxythreads]

hi,

I'm fascinated by ur Loki works, and since I'm currently rereading all my favourites I wanted to ask about your general headcanons for Loki, and your opinions on all the movies and appearances Loki had. Basically, could you please talk about Loki, because i feel like my idea of Loki and your idea of Loki are similar. bye!!

"Do you want to rant at me about your favorite character?" I mean. do you want my first born?

general headcanons:

there's this scene in Loki: Where Mischief Lies where Loki has a throwaway line that talks about how it never matters when Thor hits him even if it gets violent and it rotates around in my head like a microwave all the time. Such an interesting concept that Thor took things too far but Loki never said anything because that's Just What Siblings Do TM

Loki's hair is soft to the touch, not greasy, because I will die mad about loki's hair in ragnarok

loki steals clothing. This is something you can see in all my fics, he's constantly stealing things from everyone.

Loki is ace, never had sex, and isn't interested in changing that. I don't think he's aro, I think he is interested in romantic love to some extent, but I think sex is just mid to him

loki's magic pokes at all five senses. It's something you can see, taste, hear, touch, and smell

loki got "food poisoning" a lot as a kid because his body was made for jotun stuff and like. asgard doesn't have that

Loki has a moral code, and there are lines he won't cross

loki doesn't lie that much, people just gave him the name because he's shifty and it was a rumor that was started by thor that he lies all the time

loki and thor's relationship has only gotten more complicated as they've gotten older and they have the brain chemistry to process things better, look at their childhoods and go, uh, bro, wait a minute

frigga wasn't a very good mom to loki, even though she tried

Loki can cook

loki uses magic less now that he's older, not because he's not good at it, but because he just like. he uses more subtle magic, and he doesn't need to turn his magic into a glowy show when he could just punch you in the face

loki is a man of few words

loki being captured and watching him lose his mind is straw that broke the camel's back for Gamora, who left shortly after he agreed to help thanos

loki wasn't mind controlled per se in the first avengers, the scepter was just affecting his feelings, but not more than anyone else? Loki was just genuinely tortured/coerced into this by thanos and they didn't have to force him to do anything. he was too terrified to say no. scepter was just an added bonus to cement the control

loki absolutely has permanent spinal damage from his time with thanos

I have a bazillion of these i could literally go on for ages.

---

thoughts on movies:

Uh. Okay. um. How do I say this without getting slain? I...do not think, objectively, that any of the Thor movies are good movies. I think they have fantastic concepts, and wonderful characters, and I adore poking at them, but I think one of the reasons that they're so beloved is because of their potential not because of what they are. People love thinking about what could have been and what they wished happened, because there's very little that's actually satisfyingly completed about the films.

Because the Thor movies are not...It. You kind of have to go hunting for outside material for pieces to be connected together and thor 2 has lots of issues that not even thor 1 could have dreamed of, and Thor 1 is just. A disaster, narratively. I think Thor 3 is definetly the most well put together movie, which sucks because it's the one that botched the characters beyond repair. You either have good characters and awful story or fantastic story and terrible characters with no inbetween.

Trying to talk about why I don't think the movies are good - objectively, as movies - has never ended super well for me, but yeah, i just. I don't. I don't think they're very good. I can break it down in more detail if anyone is interested, but there seems to exist two opinions on tumblr: you either think thor 1 - tdw is an untouchable master piece or you don't and there's nothing good to say about them at all.

I have endless praise to give the movies, but that doesn't mean I don't have criticisms, because, good lord, they suck in some places. Loki's character arc is the most baffling mishandle of a character that I have ever witnessed, and yes, I mean this from the get go. Connecting thor 1 - thor 2 takes some mental math.

Thor 1: Interesting set-up for Loki's character, I like how careful they are with setting him up to make sure that his arc was clear and the line between victim and villain was really blurred. They did a good job on making him sympathetic, and revealing an interesting concept with him and Thor, even if I don't think it was executed as well as I wanted.

Avengers 1: adore poking at Loki and Thanos's relationship here. I cannot get enough of it. I like writing with the avengers mostly because of all that didn't happen in the movie that I wished had. There's so many narrative secrets that don't get addressed or glossed over and I just want it picked apart

Thor 2: i enjoy seeing Loki and Thor working together, Loki's deteriorating mental stay in prison is always fascinating, and generally tdw is my favorite movie and portrayal of loki. It's what I usually base all my fics off of is how he acts in this movie. 10/10, will sing praises

thor 3: my loathing for this movie has shriveled considerably since i saw it the first time, but i'd still be hardpressed to say i liked anything they did with loki's character. Loki is self-sabatoging constantly, and his character makes no sense whatsoever. he is the village idiot, and like, i'm not really into that.

Infinity War: Honestly, i'm just gonna say it - i really did like what they did with loki in this movie. Like yeah, I wanted him to help and be an important part of the story, yeah, of course, but I also appreciate from a writing perspective what a powerful move killing him off before the credits was. Loki was the Big Bad of the first avengers and murdering him set the stakes amazingly. It carried Thor's entire arc, and it felt like a shroud that was layered over the movie. I know a lot of people didn't like it, but I appreciated what they did with it, and I like the tragedy.

---

Appearance:

not a single scene in ragnarok with him it it did not make me want to chew off my foot, his character design was awful. I will never understand why everyone was drooling over the black suit, it looked like it was bought from walmart and then the wrinkles smoothed out with a flat iron. His hair is greasy af for no reason, all of his clothing looks cheap and ugly. there's nothing impressive or visually interesting about him. the choice to remove his colors so hela can take them will never not be annoying to me even though hela is my baby child

thor 1 has the best hair, in my opinion, but he also looks stupid as hell in his armor. loki's design, to me, works best when it has long lines and it's flowy and/or soft. visually nice:

and like the reason it's visually nice is because it's soft and doesn't make me notice tom hiddleston's hips. The moment i'm aware of his hips i get irritated as hell about it, because idk man, loki just. he does not look good when you're aware he has hips. tom hiddleston is like fine, somehow? i don't know why it doesn't bother me when he's wearing whatever he wants to - i also just like. do not care - but with loki i'm just like. oh good LORD stop making me aware of your hips.

It's why i can't stand his ragnarok suit but would sing praises over the thor 1 one.

It's something that's just like. confounded me forever, because i don't even know why it bugs me so much, but every time i see his TVA outfit, thor 1 armor, or that stupid ragnarok suit i want to shoot a canon ball into the sun.

Give the man a suit coat or do not put him in a jacket. loki has lots of skills but pulling off a jacket is not one of them.

He needs to look haunted, like, in general. Or like an 18th century tired man. it's integral for his character to me.

things that make galaxy happy:

loki soft hair

loki having suit coat or suit coat equivalent

things that will send her into a ranting, unwanted, nitpicky rage

loki greasy hair

loki dressed in jackets

[confused-disaster32]

Hi! So you can call this a rant or a vent or whatever I don't rlly care - I just wanted to put some of my opinions out there bc it is eating me inside out to keep my opinions on Alastor's sexuality and all of the discourse about him being shipped to myself.

Also i'd like to state that I'm writing this as someone who is aroace but has no actual wish to be in a romantic relationship and actually struggles to so much as picture what that's be like for myself. I would also like to state how I'm not speaking for the whole community and others will have different opinions to myself.

Firstly - aroace is a spectrum (as someone who is on the aroace spectrum btw) and I completely agree with ppl who say that it is a spectrum and shipping has always existed and you can't rlly stop an entire fandom. My only problem is when ppl completely ignore that he is aroace while doing this, bc to me it seems like there's so much potential to having him have to go through those types of emotions and to write him off as if he's completely allo not only can make some people feel unseen but also just isn't as fun.

Also I kind of believe that he'd possibly date someone for the entertainment - like even if he didn't exactly feel romantic attraction maybe he'd be willing to be around someone closely bc he might like the reactions he'd be getting. (example: he might've stayed in a relationship with Vox maybe not out of pure attraction but if he found out that affection could make the TV short-circuit? He'd be interested)

Adding to that, I personally do not actually ship him with anyone romantically due to his character + the fact that I am projecting my own distaste for romance on him but you do you ig.

Also, on the note of nsfw around him - sometimes you cannot stop a fandom, rule 34 exists and some people who are asexual sometimes may want to have sex and all of that stuff. Personally I think he'd probably be sex-repulsed due to the fact that he canonically has issues with being touched.

ALSO, i personally think that way too many people are brushing over the idea of putting Alastor in a QPR - like that would literally be so awesome.

Alastor x Rosie? Cute af (to me Rosie gives of aro vibes too, but more romance - favourable) like they're already besties and honestly I think that Rosie would defo help him figure out about his identity considering that he's quite obviously not all that sure about slang and stuff.

Vox x Alastor - It has the potential to be SO FUCKING FUN like, you get to experiment with how they feel for each other, maybe what Alastor's got going on bc he died before being aroace was rlly a thing and he'd be confused about how he felt about Vox for sure.

Lucifer x Alastor - I quite like it, ik that Lucifer is supposed to be with Lillith but she did take an extremely long hiatus on her family up in heaven so i think it's okay. Plus the idea of them bonding and becoming close due to Charlie is wonderful.

Even angel and Alastor - maybe after Val Angel doesn't want a super sexual relationship - maybe he's not all that interested in something purely romantic either and though I love huskerdust this would still be pretty cool.

Really all I'm saying is; be considerate. Incorporate the fact that Alastor is Aroace, even if you do ship him - in or out of QPRs - and ofc sometimes writing someone who is part of a group ur not in is difficult (coming from someone who often struggles in writing especially when it comes to romance) but taking a crack at it might actually turn out to be rlly cool.

But please don't ignore his aroace-ness, there's not a huge amount of aroace characters out there and acting like someone isn't can be annoying for ppl who want to find rep around their identity, esp if they haven't seen much before (I can relate and he was one of the first aroace characters I was introduced to after I found out what it meant).

So yeah, that's my piece.

[luffy-is-aroace]

Do you have the source in which Luffy was confirmed aroace? I’m making a project on the ace and aro communities that includes a list of aro, ace, and aroace rep in media and I can’t find where it was confirmed, but I hear everyone say he is. Thank you.

luffy is very very much aroace coded but neither he nor the author have ever directly said the words "luffy is asexual" - one piece's canonical queer rep is limited to transgender characters

that being said, here's the relevant passages, and some context if its needed:

in chapter 516/episode 411, luffy stumbles across boa hancock, the worlds most beautiful woman, in the bath. she has an ability to turn people to stone when they feel some amount of "love, lust, or adoration" to her; ie. when they are attracted to her. heres how it goes:

this is the first time hancock meets a man who isnt affected by her power. it basically suggests that, by not turning to stone, hes not attracted to her at all.

eventually, she develops a crush on him, and she wants to marry him, which he outright rejects (chapter 598)

in regard to the "mero mero" moment, a fan noticed a discrepancy, and asked the author about it in the SBS corner from volume 54. luffy had previously responded to the naked body of a woman the way all the other guys did. oda decided to blame it on luffy imitating his friend

"That's not the Luffy we know." "When Luffy is alone, his reaction is what it was with Hancock. He's interested, but he's not entranced by her." Luffy acting in a certain way because Usopp does - going along with the mood of the moment, or performing, or however you want to say it - feels awfully aspec to me. It's definitely a common aspec experience to try and force yourself into amatonormative - or, in this case, I guess allonormative? - behavior.

In the SBS for volume 88, oda was asked about why luffy called a woman a "beauty" at one point. The response:

Luffy understanding physical attractiveness as a classification, understanding it but not caring about it - that suggests he probably doesn't experience aesthetic attraction (appreciating someones appearance, disconnected from sexual/romantic attraction). this definitely speaks to my experience as an aroace individual.

also, this isnt necessarily evidence for luffy specifically, but moreso a general answer - in the SBS for volume 34, oda was asked if there would be romance between the main characters, and he brushed it off:

my impression, personally, is that Oda is generally fairly uninterested in pursuing any romantic relationships between his main characters.

in conclusion, I personally feel like the evidence here suggests that luffy is aroace, or at least aspec, given some of Oda's wording (which is probably a little up to interpretation, given it's been translated from japanese). His answer in volume 54 has always felt like a retcon to me, like Oda only came to a conclusion of sorts on this when Luffy met Hancock, and had to go back and find some reasoning for why Luffy would have responded that way. Luffy, more than anything, wants to have an adventure, and romance and sex aren't part of that for him.

I'm not gonna try to police how people view Luffy. it's not healthy for me to do that - luffy and his aroaceness is something that's very very personal to me and itd be way too messy. In addition, in the past I've had people point out that this evidence would only necessarily suggest luffy isnt attracted to women, and he could be gay; I personally don't see him that way, and I seriously doubt Oda would make that choice in canon, but people can do what they want. I think, however, it's pretty telling that a lot of aroace and aspec people see themselves in him.

This morphed into something of a modern take on my thesis here instead of just answering your question; sorry about that. I'd be interested to see your project when you're done, if you're able and willing to share!

[selfidentifiednerdyprude]

Individual choices vs systemic forces

This has come up a lot, especially with me being dumb enough to stand up for myself on a certain post about kinky aces and wholesomeness that's going around, so I'm making a post to clarify the issue.

Tl;dr you can do whatever you want forever, I don't care, it literally does not affect me one bit if an ace person is involved in sex/kink or an aro person is involved in romance or an aroace person is involved in both.

I would like to lessen the forces that make people feel like they HAVE to do these things, but it is straight up not my place to police whether anyone CAN do these things.

The thing is, nothing I say on this blog is ever about individual people making choices about what's best for themselves. "There are people in happy and healthy relationships that look like the ones that hurt me, and this is fine" has been a guideline of my writing about how I was harmed by the kink community since I started writing about how I was harmed by the kink community.

My work concerns itself with compulsory sexuality and amatonormativity, and the ways it harms everyone, including alloromantic allosexuals.

My quarrel is not with people making the choice to be sexual or romantic in whatever way they choose— it's with the system that elevates these choices to be more than choices.

It's not with the kinky ace who writes erotica. It's with the system that uses kinky aces who write erotica as "proof" that ace people are worthy of respect— because we shouldn't need proof that we're worthy of respect. We are people, regardless of how sexually inclined we are or aren't, and we belong here.

It's not with the aromantic person who chooses to enjoy romantic content or enter a romantic relationship. It's with the system that uses romo aros as "proof" that aro people are worthy of respect— because we shouldn't need proof that we're worthy of respect. We are people, regardless of how romantically inclined we are or aren't, and we belong here.

It's not with any individual person who, through their informed individual choices, has more proximity to romantic/sexual culture than me. It's with the way that some of us having those preferences is taken as proof that all of us are able or willing to conform.

I will defend to the death the right of any aspec person to make what they've decided are the right choices for themselves in their personal relationship with romance and sexuality. I will always stand against a system that elevates those who are willing to participate in those things over those who are not.

So if it wasn't clear: sex, kink, and romance favorable people are welcome here. But any attitude that views those preferences as more respectable, acceptable, transgressive, or "cool" than averse/repulsed perspectives will always be called out as the disgustingly aphobic bullshit that it is.

I care so much about all of us. I want us all to be free.

[chiisana-sukima]

follow up to the question you just answered (tho I'm a different anon), when did you first get into fandom? what was it like back in the day?

I read what I would now consider my first fic when I was thirteen. It was split into two traditionally published Star Trek novels, but they were whumptastic, barely sanitized Spirk (no sex, but omg the "Ill die for you, give up everything for you, endure horrible torture, etc" vibes were off the charts). And while I can't say they awakened something in me per se--because I had already read a bunch of other raunchy queer scifi by other authors--they were certainly my first taste of transformative works, and I've been in fandom on and off since I became old enough to drive to cons a few years later.

Why is that romulan chick there when this is sanitized gay porn? No idea, its been years since I read these.

I went to Star Trek cons when I was in my twenties and still know some of the con runners from that time. There were, to put it bluntly, a lot of raves and a lot of sex lol. It was a more open time period in some ways, or at least it was open enough my whole friend group basically all banged.

Otoh though, there wasn't nearly as much language to think and talk about identity. I think The Youth TM have really stepped up around issues of gender and sexuality in ways that are net huge positives, including for older queers who can now identify ourselves in ways that may always have been central to us, but which we didnt have language to express (I still call myself bi and queer but can now also say I'm nonbinary/genderqueer and aro--both of which I have been for as long as I can remember but only have words to discuss now). We banged a lot back then (which was great! no regrets!) but didn't know ourselves very well.

I didn't become what I'd call active in fandom on a regular basis though until the 1990s. I was a manga translator in the late nineties/early 2000s and ran a small scanlation team. There wasn't as much Discourse about what kinds of content are acceptable then as there is now, but Discourse springs eternal, so there were a bunch of other kinds of wank instead. My team was international, and we ended up splitting over a weird mix of factors that included one of the members being incredibly racist due to childhood trauma during the Yugoslav wars, my own anxiety over customs opening all my packages from Japan, and an attempt by a traditional publishing company to co-opt all the scanlators as contractors for shit wages and no benefits.

I took a long break and then came back into fandom on the fic reading/writing side in 2015, and I love it here a lot. AO3 is the best thing since sliced bread. Even though I worry about purity wank and the panopticon and how that's all affecting people growing up now, I think overall fandom is a better place for the togetherness that the internet has bred. It's much more accessible now compared to when I was young, and it's easier to find your own little tribe of weirdos who match your freak pretty exactly.

[cowboylikedean]

Inside the (a)Romance

For those of you who don't know, I have been in the first really like... real feelings... romantic relationship of my life for the past 10 months. Being romance replused sex indifferent aroace has really shaped my experience of this relationship. This relationship is romantic, but it is not allo and I think it would be helpful for me, other aros, and also allos to pick it apart and discuss how my romance repulsed aromanticism has affected my experience of this relationship (and also how my partner's patience has been paramount in making it work) in a new series inside the (a)romance.

I'm going to post about different stages and conversations of our relationship. This first post is kinda gonna be an overview of things that are contextual and important including my identity words and conception and also outside things that are not romance related like our history.

My identity

I identify my romantic orientation with the following words and phrases: aromantic, romance repulsed, sensuromantic. None of this has changed. My definition of sensuromantic changed and my romance repulsed label got a *exception... but all three of those are still my labels. I'm going to break down in parts to explain their meaning before and after.

Aromantic

This is the easiest label because it's barely changed. I am aromantic and my definition of that is that I am not oriented to feel romantic attraction. That has not changed. I am still not oriented to feel romantic attraction. I just happen to feel it towards him. I don't expect that to ever happen again. This hasn't changed much because I already had an exception. I had an almost-someone I had romantic feelings for in high school. We never dated because he wanted to keep it secret from his friends and I thought I was worth more than that. I've regretted not going for it anyway and hoping that after we were really good, he would want to tell his friends because I thought that was my only shot at understanding romance. Now I have another shot! So that barely changed.

Romance Repulsed

This one has changed a tiny bit, but not much. I am romance repulsed and I define that as I am turned off and made uncomfortable by displays of affection defined romantically. For example, when I was just out of high school, we went to visit my dad's family out of state at the end of July. We were there during my sister's birthday. My sister's boyfriend asked my dad privately and got my grandma's address and had flowers delivered to my sister at my grandma's house on her birthday. The whole family thought this was soooo sweet and I thought it was sooo uncomfortable and creepy. It felt overbearing and gross. I said that if a partner did that to me, I'd be creeped out and that would be a possible reason to end a relationship. When I thought about a friend doing this for me, however, it sounded SOOO sweet! It was the definition of the romance that made it feel gross and overbearing. However, if my partner did that for me, I'd be really so endeared. So this remains true for everyone except my partner. Just like with "aromantic," how I already had an exception and I just added one, my partner became my only exception here.

Sensuromantic

This is a term I coined like 10 years ago when everyone was coining microlabels before the terf-lead aphoboia ruined the aspec communities of tumblr (which btw by the WAYYYY the 2013-2015 period of time where the queer communities were made on tumblr is hitting the mainstream now and I just feel so much grief). The definition I went with was that sensual attraction "takes the place of" romantic attraction for me. The role that romance plays in other people's lives, sensuality plays in mine. I knew that I had squishes where I desperately wanted to hug and cuddle, but I also knew I had no intention for those squishes to be defined romantically. So this definition where sensuality was in the place of romance made sense. I can pinpoint the moment romantic feelings began for me in my current relationship... that's a whole post in and of itself, but it was after a very soft and sweet cuddle session. I have changed my definition that a sensual relationship is required for romantic feelings to begin. This makes sense with my high school almost someone too because we had some touching and hugging there that lead to those feelings being romantic.

Some outside things and context

I'm just going to list some stuff that's important to note before we fully get into it:

At the beginning of my current relationship, I had another partner... a qpp life partner. We were engaged and had covid not happened, we'd be filing for divorce right now. This relationship was deeply devastating for me and soooo much about myself is being redefined right now

Another reason a lot of me is in flux is my mother died in April of this year. It's the worst thing that will ever happen to me and I still can't believe it happened.

I have had one other committed relationship defined romantically. I thought I had romantic feelings for her, but I didn't. There are many things about that relationship I regret, and even moreso now that I know what an actual reciprocal romantic relationship feels like.

I am SAM aroace and my sexual orientation is absolutely a part of this story, but it isn't the point of this series. I will likely be doing a long post about it as a part of this series, but it's not the focal point. Because I'm SAM, I can focus a lot on my romantic orientation without discussing my sexual orientation.

So that's my intro post to this series! Look out for more! The next post will talk about that moment I mentioned in the sensuromantic section for when my romantic feelings started!

[halliescomut]

Love Sea Episode 1 Thoughts

My overall thoughts and musings for Ep 1 of Love Sea. Disclaimers: I did not read the novel. I may talk about Mame's use of problematic tropes and overall troubling storytelling, but I may not. I'm not here to grade the quality of her work. Mame as a creator is known for specific issues, and I'm not necessarily ignoring them or approving of them just because I don't call them out. I have seen every Mame show multiple times, so I am indeed well aware.

Okay getting started on ep one, I will start with my two 'complaints' that are sort of connected. The tone of the episode has some pretty wild swings. The most notable is on the boat when Rak is upset, and then it cuts to what is probably 15 minutes later when he's calmed down and they're flirting again. The tone shift is just kind of disorienting in the instance. The tone shifts throught the rest of the episode seem more based around who is the 'subject' whether Mut, Rak, or Mook and so make more sense, but are still kinda sharp. Secondly, while I know Mame isn't they type to take things slow really, I did kind of feel like the hug on the boat was a bit too soon. It's not that it was necessarily out of character for Mut, because I don't think it was, but just that he still doesn't know Rak so going in for that hug was really a leap.

What I did like:

I'm very much a fan of the country mouse, city mouse type of story, and just the general humor that comes from having a CitySlickers kind of plot, so I do enjoy the bits of humor related to Rak now being in a pretty rural community, and I'm hoping that the opposite does present similar comedic opportunities when Mut goes to Bangkok with Rak. That being said it is a bit of a fine line between fish out of water humor and kind of degrading someone because they aren't familiar with an environment they never had the ability or opportunity to experience, so hopefully that line is tread carefully.

I'm interested in learning more about Rak and his kind of writing hang ups. The information that gets introduced is that Rak writes romance novels, but he can't write sex scenes if he's not like actively involved in a sexual relationship.

I'm wondering if this will be an explicit inclusion of and Ace or Aro character, which is fairly rare in media overall, but especially in Thai BL, when having a character say they are explicitly gay is a fairly recent development. Mame in particular has been overall more inclusive of different sexualities, having explicitly Pansexual and Bisexual characters, as well as Gay and Lesbian characters. And there are many valid reasons to read Ae from Love by Chance as Aromantic or Asexual (or both really) but it's is never explicitly said. So having Rak be Aro would be a wonderful step forward there. Overall I'm interested in how this particular storyline plays out.

We don't really learn much more about Rak this episode, which feels appropriate, because he's meant to be closed off. So I imagine we will learn more about him as Mut learns more about him. I do know that there are people that find characters like Rak, Sky, or even Type off putting as they're often very rude in order to keep people at arms length, but I do have a soft spot for cranky characters with emotional walls. IRL their behavior would be frustrating and I would not appreciate it, but in fiction I will allow it and often enjoy it.

As far as what we learn about Mut, he is interested in money, but he doesn't want it just for nothing. He makes it clear that he really only wants it in trade for doing the work he's been hired to do, which does indicate his overall honorable personality. We see that he's pretty beloved and trusted by his community, which kind of confirms that honorability. If he were some shady beach bum people wouldn't trust him the way they do. We also see that Mut takes active interest in his community and it's members, so it's clearly mutual respect and affection. It's pretty clear to me that this is shown to us, the audience, to reinforce that Mut for all of his playfulness is a responisible and kind person, so we feel comfortable with him pursuing Rak. I think it's also something likely to be observed by Rak in future episodes to help him feel more secure with Mut.

Overall, outside of setting up the story and initial attraction with Mut and Rak, there isn't a whole lot else of note. We do get the introduction of Mook and Vi, the GL side couple. They have two very short scenes, so we truly don't learn a lout more than their names, and we're all aware that the GL side couple in Wedding Plan was lacking, so here's hoping this attempt it better.

The views and the setting of the episode are absolutely gorgeous, and there are some very long shots that take in that environment and setting. It's something that I don't know is necessary, but I definitely understand the reasoning since it is some really beautiful scenery.

I was also a bit concerned with how 'similar' Mut and Rak would be to Prapai and Sky, and while there are clearly parallels, I don't feel like it's a cut and pasting of them into a different setting.

Additional kind of negative note: don't love the line reinforcing colorism "your pale skin shows you're pure of heart"...it's not great. Especially when you combine it with them leaning into a common colorism casting trope of a darker complected actor playing a 'poor' character and a paler complected actor playing a 'rich' character. Like yes the difference in complexion would make sense since Mut and the other members of his community would just be outside often and for extended periods, it's still kind iffy. Also not a huge fan of the whole conversation about hair removal and the reinforcement of that beauty standard. Granted it's up to an individual what they want to do with their own body hair, but it does still set an unrealistic standard and that's unfortunate.

[thefolkyfaery]

Sometimes I feel conversations surrounding ace-spec and aro-spec experiences are presented to monolithic. Of course I'm not referring to when people are specifically describing their own experience; however, when speaking about the communities as a whole I wish there was more emphasis on the diversity of experiences amongst ace and aro people. I'm not saying this is always an issue in ace and aro spaces, but it has negatively affected me personally. If this isn't something that you've noticed that's fair. Maybe this is a niche topic, not sure.

For example when people broadly say aromantic people don't date that generalization feels exclusionary to me. A lot of aromantic people myself included do date and even if most aromantic people don't date it doesn't make that generalization a good representation of the community as a whole. I have a similar issue when people broadly say asexuals don't have sex. My friend's old partner one time essentially harassed me in my own discord server for identifying as a sex favorable asexual because I was apparently misrepresenting the community. She also repeatedly told me it just sounded like I'm demisexual.

Though I don't personally identify as demisexual or demiromantic myself I do have the impression this issue is part of why demi people are often so othered. I've noticed this in the ace community especially, demisexuals are sometimes othered and seemingly seen as kind of separate from the ace community. I think this is also because demisexuality is a very misunderstood identity too. I just wanted to highlight demi erasure because I think it's a part of this conversation even though I'm not demi myself.

I think in conversations about asexuality and aromanticism it's sometimes forgotten the orientations describe having little or no sexual and/or romantic attraction. Having little or no attraction doesn't necessarily dictate your desires. Yes asexual and aromantic can also describe a disconnect from normative societal expectations, due to feeling repulsed by sex/romance, or being uninterested in sexual/romantic relationships, but they're not mutually exclusive. You can have little or no sexual attraction or romantic attraction and still be interested in sex and/or dating. You can want to participate in traditionally sexual coded and/or romantic coded things and still be asexual and/or aromantic. Both are valid experiences that should be equally represented while defining the community as a whole.

Rather than saying, "aromantic people don't date" if that person said, "a lot of aromantic people don't date" I feel simply including the "a lot of" part would make the statement so much more inclusive. I recognize that it's likely most asexuals don't engage in sex and it's likely most aromantics don't engage in romance as a part of their asexuality or aromanticism, but that doesn't change that there's still a chunk of ace and/or aro people who do.

I feel kinda bad making such a big deal of this, but again it is something that has genuinely negatively affected me. I understand do to amatonormativity not being interested in sex or romance can be an extremely alienating experience in our society and I want to respect that. I understand why it's so important emphasizing the validity of not being interested in a sexual or romantic relationship for example and I want to uplift aces and aros with that experience so I feel kind of shitty making a big deal out of this. I recognize because I do date for example in that way I fit more into amatonormative standards and I'm not trying to overlook that. At the same time as an aroace who does participate in sex, dates, etc I often feel like I don't exactly belong in either space which is very frustrating.

I just wanted to share my feelings on this and feel free to give constructive critique.

[altschmerzes]

Hey you don’t have to answer this obvs if it’s something you don’t want to share/talk about but I’m curious how did you meet your wife/navigate getting married in an aromantic way? I kinda feel like I might be aro and I’m getting older and feeling like. I want a partner and I don’t want to be alone but I don’t know if I really feel romantic love, and I just feel kinda hopeless about finding that, but it’s nice knowing there are people who do find it.

absolutely, yeah!!! i love to talk about my relationship honestly, for a lot of reasons (it makes me feel very happy and warm inside, and i love to talk about this wonderful thing i have in my life with this wonderful person, i am a Wife Guy for real) but also for exactly this reason too - bc i don't think a lot of people know that what we have, what we're doing, is an option. or if they do think of it, they don't think it's realistic or something that can actually happen.

i spent a long time thinking that what i wanted, the thing that would actually make me happy, that i daydreamed about just... it was a nice thought but the odds that i would be able to actually have it were so low that it didn't warrant thinking about at all. i wanted a partner, someone i could live with and raise kids with and build a life together with, and i wanted it completely platonically. i didn't want romance and i didn't want sex either but i did want intimacy, emotionally and physically. i assumed this would only be possible with another aro(ace) person, because i didn't think anyone who wasn't aroace would want that, or that it would be like. unfair somehow, or asking someone to give enormous things up to be with me. (this was all a bunch of jumping to assumptions and internalized bullshit, btw. my fiancee is a lesbian and is just as happy as i am, wants our marriage and our life together, exactly the way that it is, just as much as i do - and has been extremely patient and kind in reassuring me of this.)

(haha this got long again, it usually seems to when i'm talking about My Aro Experience and relationships and em sldj. further under the cut-)

and then it was like, well, i already have no idea how i'd meet another aroace person irl, and even then i have no idea if we'd be compatible. if we'd have the same values and vision for our lives. if they'd want kids. if they'd be comfortable with the kind of physical affection i really wanted to engage in. etc. so i just kind of told myself that y'know, it would have been nice if i had the option of not being alone, but i didn't, so i had to just get used to it. (and it is perfectly fine if someone wants to be alone. that's great. that's a huge thing the aro community is fighting for all of the time. but i did not want that. i just thought it was the only choice i had, if i wasn't willing to force myself into a romantic and probably sexual relationship i didn't want.

my wife and i actually met quite a while back, when we were like. sixteen or so, online. we've been friends for a really long time. which is why when im asked how long we've been together by people who don't know our relationship is platonic, or that i'm aro, or whatever, i have a hard time answering it XD. because like, our engagement was the first we'd ever decided to Be In A RelationshipTM, but if you think about it as a progression of the same relationship we've always had, just as dating before an engagement would be, we've been together for like. coming up on close to ten years.

figuring out navigating our relationship has been a little difficult at times but mostly it's been absolutely wonderful. difficult mostly in the sense that there's no script for this, nothing set out that tells us this is what a relationship like ours is supposed to look like, or usually looks like. we've had to figure it out ourselves. but also that's one of the things that's really been wonderful about it. we can decide at every single point what it is we want, what it is that'll make us happy.

like - at first we decided to have separate bedrooms when we moved in together after we finished our respective degrees/got married/got immigration all sorted out. and then after sharing one when we went to my hometown to introduce em to my family we were like. well. we were fools, huh. so, turns out we're sharing a bedroom. (and i'm... really happy with that, particularly, because it turns out i sleep really well when em and i are together. i used to write a lot about characters sleeping in the same bed, cuddling, etc, and i still do, but i always sort of assumed it was completely obvious i had no idea what i was talking about bc it couldn't possibly be the way i described it. and now that i've been there, it's better.)

the rest of the world is a little trickier, haha. it's a little weird and bad sometimes that people are constantly assuming i'm in a romantic relationship, tbh. even in the aro community i see a lot of people talking like the only people around are nonpartnering/single or in romantic relationships. and the rest of the world, people who don't know i'm aro or who do but like.... forget that a lot? or assume it's changed or doesn't matter or something? is kind of exhausting and uncomfortable. for the most part, we don't bother explaining the nature of our relationship to people. this is also something we talked about! we discussed how much we wanted to clarify or contextualize, and decided that ultimately like... with the exception of people we're very close to, and in contexts like this (fairly anonymous post on ye olde internet with the ability to immediately block anyone who clowns on it), it's really nobody's business unless we decide it is and we're cool with just letting people assume whatever. that doesn't mean it doesn't suck sometimes, but it's a calculus i've made and we've made together.

anyways, just. there you have it!!! i trust my fiancee and i love them and they love me and our greatest priority is always making sure the other person feels safe and loved and respected. and i feel that in every conversation we have. it's a unique situation and we've had to figure a lot of things out along the way, and that's included a lot of conversations i just don't know how to have, but we've figured it out together. i felt hopeless for a really long time, too. i wish i could go back and tell myself in the past where i'd end up. and that's part of why i keep talking about it so much and so openly, so that people know they don't have to just... there are options, y'know? options for going after what you want and talking about what you want with anyone in your life who you have a significant relationship with. i could've cheated myself out of the best thing that's ever happened to me by assuming it just wasn't possible. i'm so glad that i didn't.

[butterfly-apocalypse]

Mild vent post about inter-aro/ace community friction and ace discourse under the cut:

Saw a post just now that rubbed me the wrong way really badly (I had OP blocked, but I was visiting someone's blog and they reblogged it so I saw the post anyway [shakes fist at sky]. It's kind of nice when your choice to block someone is validated though!).

The post was talked about how aces who choose to engage in sexual relationships are making an effort to be fight misinformation and to be accepted, which usually comes in the form of acknowledgement that some asexuals may choose to have sex when discussing ace experiences. The post also discussed how aces who have been affected by being pressured to conform get rubbed the wrong way by seeing so many discussions about the asexual experience acknowledge that aces can still have sex. The overall point of the post was that "everyone gets annoyed at each other when it should be peaceful."

And like yeah! I think the post hit the nail on the head, I think that's exactly what's happening. However there were like. Two things about the post that PARTICULARLY rubbed me the wrong way: 1) Framing both groups as equally valid in their irritation and 2) describing the effort to include the experience of sex-favorable aces as "don't worry, aces can still conform!"

Because for 1) a group being annoyed and speaking against the fact that experiences other members of their community are being represented and acknowledged (and sometimes even emphasized to combat a history of a severe lack of representation and acknowledgement) are doing harm to their fellow community members. No community is a monolith and PARTICULARLY not the aro/ace community. The experiences of aces who choose to engage in sexual relationships matter SO MUCH and have almost no mainstream discussion that I've seen. It is the MORE INCLUSIVE and more responsible thing to do to acknowledge the many many many different "asexual experiences" if you're going to discuss them at large.

I think the irritation at other people being included comes from a lack of understanding other aces lived experiences and a heightened concern over how other people using the same label differently as you do affects people's impressions. Visibility and acceptance are not a pie. More visibility and acceptance for sex-favorable aces does not mean less visibility and acceptance for sex-repulsed or otherwise celibate aces. Regardless of how much more common acknowledgement of sex-favorable aces has become on certain online spaces, I think it would be hard to argue that the experiences of sex-favorable aces has come anywhere close to overshadowing other ace experiences.

It's COMPLETELY FAIR to have different spaces, different discussions, etc. specific to difference experiences! But when discussing asexual experiences AT LARGE, it's Not really fair to be upset that different experiences are acknowledged.

For 2) framing aces who choose to engage in a sexual relationship as "choosing to conform" feels so unfair. Like, yes, you could say that by engaging in a sexual relationship, they are following societal expectations and are therefore conforming. But that's SO FOCUSED on what external impressions of the relationship are when SO MUCH of the asexual experience IS INTERNAL. Are bisexual women who choose to date men "conforming?" You might say so from the outside, but what is that accomplishing?

Anyway, I just....sigh.

I've been verbally assaulted in real life by a fellow queer person who insisted that I would abusing and lying to my then girlfriend if I choose to be sexual with her OR that she would be abusing me OR that if I actually WANTED to participate, then I wasn't allowed to identify as asexual. I have been in so so so many conversations with other aro/aces where I say something and the response is "Well, I'm ace, so I don't [thing that I just said I do or enjoy]." It feels deeply invalidating! It feel straight out of 2nd grade hearing people say stuff like "I'm a girl, so I don't like superheroes." or "I'm a boy, so I can't wear a dress." and so also "I'm ace, so I don't like E-rated fanfics." and "I'm ace, so I can't write smut."

Furthermore, I've seen more and more of an unholy mix of treating aro/aces as a monolith with purity culture. Ace Discourse did so much damage to the community and the community growing back is so steeped in sex-negativity. "I'm better because I'm not bogged down by sexual attraction" and "Sex scenes in shows and movies should all be removed, there's never a reason sex needs to be included," are VERY UNDERSTANDABLE and VERY VALIDLY ill-received by the rest of the queer community and people who have fought so hard for sexual liberation. (These were not random examples or exaggerations, they were from a conversation I had less than 24 hours ago in real life.)

SO MUCH of the queer community relies on sex-positivity/sex-neutrality and that genuinely does actually include aces. Sex-positivity/neutrality takes sex from being some All Important Arcane Sacred Ritual that is either Blessed or Evil into a natural activity that's part of life that many people choose to engage in or not engage in for a variety of reasons. It removes the "inherent significance" from it as well as the taboo. It removes ANY expectation, including the expectation that sex is necessary.

Anyway. I think that's all I have to say for now. I'm getting off my soap box.

Tune in next time for rant about how Ace Discourse primarily relies on cisheteronormativity and conflating sex-negativity for asexuality!

[worldweaveralicya]

Writing Attraction

Ah yes, attraction. That whole topic is extremely complicated (not just in writing). And believe me, it's important to explore the general topic of attraction in almost any story.

"But Alicya, I don't write about romantic/sexual relationships!" Who said that attraction is just romantic or sexual? Just as I said, attraction can get really confusing. Generally, when you're writing attraction, it's important to think about two things first:

The nature of the attraction your character is experiencing

The way they express that attraction

We'll get into the basics here, don't worry.

The Nature of Attraction

Let me introduce you to my buddy SAM. Otherwise known as the Split Attraction Model. Its modern interpretation stems from the people within the aro/ace community describing their sexuality (or lack of it) in a more easily understandable way. Simply put, the model proposes that general attraction is composed of distinct attraction types. Those types can coexist, but they don't have to.

As a writer, it's important to understand what kind of attraction your character experiences. Here are some types of attraction:

Aesthetic Attraction "I want to look at them." Your character admires another character's aesthetic appeal. They like their facial features and/or style. They're just nice to look at.

Platonic Attraction "I want to be their friend." Your character wants to become another character's friend. They like their personality and want to hang out with them.

Romantic Attraction "I want to date them." Your character has a crush on another character and wants to be their partner. They are completely enamored by that special person.

Sensual Attraction "I want to touch them." Your character wants to be physically close to another character, but it's not sexual. Think hugs, handholding, play fighting, and maybe a kiss.

Sexual Attraction "I want to bone them." Your character said "smash" and wants to have sex with another character.

Feel free to mix and match as you go! Attraction is fluid, so you can change things as your story progresses. Either way, attraction between characters is what makes them develop bonds.

The Expression of Attraction

Okay, hear me out: You can learn a lot about the expression of attraction through anime culture. Specifically, researching different dere types can be inspiring! Dere types refer to specific character tropes relating to how they express affection. Those tropes are mostly about romantic attraction, but you can translate them for other types as well.

Although I'd advise you to not stick too much to those tropes. Otherwise, you might end up creating a silly caricature.

Still, you can use dere types as rough guidelines for how your characters express their attraction. Here are some dere types, but there are so many more you can look up online.

Deredere "You're really important to me." A deredere tends to be really romantic and is very honest about their attraction. They are sweet and openly affectionate.

Tsundere "It's not like I like you or anything, idiot." A tsundere hides their attraction by overcompensating. So they tend to get really mean or even physical with the character they're attracted to.

Kuudere "I don't particularly care about you." A kuudere is calm, calculated, and cold as ice. They don't like showing their emotions at all, but they become very caring after opening up to someone.

Yandere "If I can't have you, no one can." Yanderes are batshit crazy. They may appear sweet and innocent, but they absolutely will get violent and extremely possessive of someone they're attracted to.

Dandere "I... I'm really not sure about this..." A dandere is unbelievably insecure and won't talk unless approached first. They prefer to keep to themselves and are often plagued by social anxiety. However, they can get pretty talkative after feeling more comfortable with someone.

Et cetera, et cetera...

I may get more in-depth about some of these subtopics in future posts. And I'm always open to suggestions! That said, I hope some of this was helpful. Until next time, keep weaving words!

[fourcolour-ace]

Why Date Akira is Aro/Ace

or "please consider my hc I have an argument and everything"

I love OOO fandom, I really do. But like anyone, I have my little things that just don't mesh with a lot of my fellow fans. I often see this moment from episode 24 of Kamen Rider OOO taken as evidence of Date Akira's homosexuality:

There is one glaring problem with the "Date is immune because he's gay" explanation. If we assume that the effects come from an enhancement of a person's normal romantic/sexual attraction, why does Yumi's power affect everyone she comes into contact with, with close to no exceptions? By sheer coincidence, everyone in that plaza except Date is attracted to women(including Eiji)? I drew a slightly different conclusion:

Date Akira experiences no appearance-based attraction at all.

Of course, there are many ways that could be interpreted: Date only loves people based on personality, he's demi and needs to get to know someone first, or he simply experiences no attraction whatsoever to anyone. I chose that last one because I'm asexual myself and Date sometimes acts in ways I relate to.

But how can he be aroace, you cry out. He's married to Goto! This has nothing to do with that.

If you've been following me long enough, you may know I'm not much for Date/Goto, or Ankh/Eiji for that matter. I see zero romantic chemistry between the former pair, only an unrequited crush that Date is blissfully unaware of for most of the series. Does this mean I think nothing happens between them? No, and in fact it's critical to my reading of Goto's development that something does happen, but that's not indicative of Date's orientation.

Right near the end of episode 24 is a moment I found relatable as an ace person.

There seems to be an implication of a past relationship or attraction on Yumi's end. Goto seems to think Date hasn't noticed, however he only assures him that he knows, but he's got other things to work on at the moment. This isn't to say that an allosexual/alloromantic person would prioritize a relationship over all else, but the feeling of having other things that are more important is something I've felt many times. Maybe he's never put words to his feelings aside from that, the sense that a romantic/sexual relationship isn't indispensable for him.

Not much left to say aside from that. I think Goto and Date are very good friends who have had sex and to me that is more interesting than them being gay married.

Thank you for reading.

[r95irth]

It's asexual representation day so-

Here are my Headcanons concerning ace-spectrum sexuality for MDZS characters -(know that they're evolving as i write)

I HeadCanon...

Lan Qiren as Aro-Ace. He does not feel sexual desire at all (not ever) can see people are beautiful like he can see a painting is beautiful but that's it. He has never been in love and given his family's foolish decision history because of love, doesn't want to be. He doesn't understand love at all and i like to write him being completely lost with his nephews + brother's love tragedy. (His opinion is basically "Like could you perharps, just not fall in love with a criminal??? maybe that would have helped not being miserable???)

I rarely get to write him that way because i have friends who love Lan Qiren/Sisi dearly so I gave them their ship when i can. In Building a home and Burning roofs however he is going to be Aro-ace, and stay that way until the end.

Wen Zhuliu is Aro (but not ace) in Building a Home and Burning Roofs. I'm planning on a queer platonic relationship between him and Wen Xu (who is Ace but not Aro) idk how it will develop yet.

But when i think about it i think i like the other way around, with Wen Zhuliu being a mix of in love with WRH on top of his loyalty. Though i do like having him being just Loyal-to-this-extent too without involving love (because love is not the explanation for everything/every loyalty)

Wen Ning is a complicated character for me, i like him Biromantic, that's for sure. But i also like him as Aromantic (making his devotion for WWX entirely on friendship gets me). One day i might write him as an Aromantic character. But right now i want to write a fic where he ends up with Mo Xuanyu. (In Building a Home and Burning roofs and Just a drop he ends up with Qin Su so i'm done with this pairing for now) Either way i like to imagine him on the ace spectrum, not sex repulsive but definitely not seeking things beyond hugs and kisses naturally.

Wen Qing i know lot of people HC her as a lesbian, but i started with CQL so i ship her with JWY (and my crack ship is her with JWY and NHS). I have like 0 ship with her as lesbian, sorry >< it's just not my jam. But I do like her on the asexual spectrum, very much like her brother, not sex-repulsive but very aware of consequences of sex (diseases, pregnancy, labor) and not looking forward that complication in her life. Sex is never a drive for her, emotions/affection are.

Jiang Wanyin again i started with CQL so i ship him hard with WQ. But as i read the novel i started to like him as Ace too. Then reading fic i started to like him with NHS too and i decided that since he wasn't loved by his parents he deserves two spouses and not a love triangle. This is how my crackship was born xD Anyways now i HC more as Demisexual (so on the ace spectrum still) he needs to spend lot of time and bond with someone before he develops feelings of love then sexual desire. It takes a long time and he is confused about it. He doesn't like kisses, sex, hugs when he is witnessing them but as he starts having a relationship he finds himself yearningf or it and it infuriates him. (He is not going to end up like his stupid brother!!)

Unfortunately i have 2 NOTP with JC which are LXC/JWN (I need canon interaction to ship, i do not understand this ship) - and JWN/WWX (i just don't vibe with it, i like them as brothers u-u sorry for those who likes it)

Nie Huaisang should not have a place here as i HC him as very Allo-horny, pansexual and even sometimes lately trans. But since in my crackship he is with asexual-characters i want to say that he respects his partner's boundaries UU All he wants is attention and love and fortunately having 2 spouses assures that there's always one ready to give him some. Sure he prefers having them both but consent is sexy.

I like to imagine sharing his porn book with them and WQ is judging it like "it's doable" or "this is compltely anatomically inaccurate and dangerous" while JC is like "please can we not- in front of my salad!" until they kiss him silly and he is like "fine but i'm not doing that part èé you want this NHS you do ALL THE WORK!" and NHS whines bc he doesn't want to work :c (and ends up convincing JC to do all the work bc JC has a praise kink)

Nie Mingjue is my most certain HC, i HC him as Ace of course (otherwise he wouldn't be on that list). But i also HC him as being completely in denial / confused about it and not able to put what he feels into words. He loves JGY but not the same way he loves LXC who is his best friend but how? I HC that their fallout / break up is 50% due to heartbroken denial on NMJ's part. He turned into this diorcee character who couldn't see a single flaw in their partner during their marriage but now they are separated their ex only have flaws.

I adore putting him as the "too ace for this bullshit" type of situation. Especially stuck him between his little brother, (NHS) his best friend (LXC) and ex (JGY) and being like "why" "why do you want to lick his face??? actually neverminde don't explain i don't want to know"

Putting him in this situation made me relate to him (i find myself back in High school with people kissing left and right and me being like "cant' we just play football?")

In Building home serie, I will probably explore his sexuality more. For now he is not sex repulsed (something i do like HC him as, but not always and not in this fic) - but he sexual intercourse is very much like a good training session for him. I can't wait to write about him exploring that, especially since LXC and JGY are horny (well they have problems so they can't be horny right now but-)

Wei Wuxian is totally demisexual in my HC. He does not imagine more than cottage core fantasy until he is certain of his beloved's affection. Then it goes to kinky land trainride wet dreams. I do think he is in love and in denial of his sexual urges (excusing it as teasing) until he is certain the love is returned. What does it say about his character? A lot. And i like to write about it.

Last but not least is Jin Guangyao as demisexual bi - listen my OTP (with Wangxian and ChengQingSang) is Xiyao. But i do HC him as Bi, and needing very much like WWX to be loved/respected to develop feelings. Qin Su is like this, i think he very much wanted to love a woman (bc to fit in and be the perfect son) and she was pretty and admired him so his heart caved. The only exception is LXC, he saw him and his brain went "pretty" then LXC respected him and his brain melted right away despite his precautions. I also adore HC JGY as having troubles with sex in general -being scared of it, of the intimacy, of the loss of control. Which almost brings him to the ace spectrum?

I do like story with Ace-sex repulsed and together and happy withtout sexual intercourses. (I aim to go for that with Wen Xu and Zhao Zhuliu in Building home serie; though i don't feel very confident about it) I loved KouhiArashi's fic "atypical courtship". But I don't write about isuch couples often because that hits very close to home for me and i don't write/read fanfics to be reminded of real life.

And here it is. The others characters in my mind are either hetero, homosexual or bisexual or pansexual but not on the ace spectrum. (Lan Xichen and Lan Wangji are very gay in my HC for example)

Know all those above are MY OPINIONS only (and as stated it changes too) don't take it personally i put the word HC for a reason. This is NOT a statement and presented as "the truth about this character's sexuality and everyone who disagree read the novel wrong"

[zodiac-blood]

Like as someone who would definitely fall under the category of "is asexual with no sexual attraction but still does it anyway" I completely understand the notion of "hey it's nice to understand that not all ace people are sex repulsed" but also as someone who also considers themself gay (in a mlm way) (in a tertiary attraction kinda way) and has a girlfriend its like. But I've never seen anyone say any of the gay men in media I relate to can also date women without feeling attracted to them. Its like.... So??? Give me a reason aroaces are the only time there are exceptions that are respected that ISN'T just the the amatonormative idea of ""dating & sex is just natural"" and that allowing this exception means people can still center their stories around dating and sex.

This probably is because allo queers, even if being queer, can still abide by the amatonormative idea of "everyone needs to want/pursue a relationship and (romantic&sexual) love is the most important feeling", so even if yes, a gay man is not abiding by the cishet standards of attraction he can still have a "normal" love story of falling in love and pursuing that interest. Also additionally that aroaces fall outside of the "sexuality binary" (the weird idea that the only sexualities are "exclusive attraction to men" and "exclusive attraction to women" and that anything outside of that is not valid) A romance & sex repulsed Aroace cannot fufil any part of the amatonormative expectation and so exceptions are only allowed in the case that it makes the most important thing about their life still center around romance and sexuality. (Of course- exceptions aren't normally allowed like the fact no one gets I can be gay and have a girlfriend but that exceptions not accepted because it doesn't fit the sexuality binary)

Cause like. Most Allos can understand/relate to the concept of not feeling attracted to a certain gender (like het men don't feel attracted to men but can understand the concept of a gay man not feeling attracted to women under the basis of "its like me but reversed") but they don't have any point of easy reference to relate to no attraction at all so they don't really even try. If they can't relate to it then they don't feel the need to change their worldview to allow it.

Anyway as I said; I would fall under the category of "aroace that is in a relationship" (and not even because of the tertiary attraction) so I totally understand there are people who are like me. And yes I think having that sort of relationship is valid- I mean I'm literally living in one- but its very telling that every aroace character always has this same exact debate but you don't see ANY discussion about biromantic homosexuals or any form of split attraction and dating without attraction in allo characters.

Unfortunately I don't know that many canonically aroace characters- other than Percy (canon ace and Jello said she may also be aro) & Howie (aroace) from Epithet Erased and Lilith (aroace) from the Owl House. Didn't get into toh fan spaces so idk about that but I know I definitely have seen posts about shipping Howie and Percy (sometimes together bc of their rivalry - but other ships are more common.) And yeah Percy is only stated to be ace and "potentially aro" and not explicitly aroace- still definitely have seen many a Percy x Howie or explicitly sexual Ramsey x Percy / Zora x Percy going around so :v

Even if I am in a relationship the way I go about my relationship is a lot different than what allos go through- yet every time in fiction an aroace character is in a relationship its written exactly how allo relationships are. (Though I tend to be romance repulsed so I don't read much of that anyway lol). I do love that other aros who are more romance favourable than me like to write/draw relationships that fit how they live- but when allos write/draw it a lot of time they don't take care in actually considering how that would absolutely affect the dynamic or that there are some characters that just don't want any sort of romantic or sexual relationship at all.

I'm probably going to end up writing my own post abt this further so I don't derail but; also the whole idea of "split attraction and the ability to be not sexually attracted but not sex repulsed in a relationship is only an asexual thing" and not just like. A broad attraction thing that anyone can experience. Definitely is also aided by &/ partially the cause of these exceptions only being applied to aroace folk.

-Toby (they/them) & Bias (he/they)

the way fandoms are desperate to make all aroace characters romance and sex positive but then dont do anything remotely similar to any other identity is astounding. hmm i wonder why

PLEASE dont derail this about shipping characters of other identities please let this one post be about an aroace struggle

[sentientgopro]

On the topic of transness and the whole aroace thing. Idk if I can be of particular help, while I personally am allosexual and alloromantic (I think), I have a weird relationship to attraction (and gender) and I'm also polyamorous, so generally outside of the norm for how attraction works. Plus, I have several connections (partners, friends, a sibling, etc.) who are on the ace and/or aro spectrum. Which is why I had way too many thoughts on this topic, unfortunately none of them scientifically backed. I'm not a sociologist, but interpersonal relationships are somewhat of a special interest for me.

I'm warning you now, this is probably gonna get messy and long (even though I'll try to keep it as short as I can), but I like sharing.

This point might be the most relatable and applicable to your situation. I have a friend who used to identify as agender and asexual (don't remember if also aromantic, it's been years) who then realized she's a trans woman and a lesbian, which was very surprising and weird for her as well. The way she rationalized it was that within her own self-perception she couldn't see herself as someone who would be in a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone else, but gaining more acceptance for herself and her own identity, the idea of her being someone who loves and is loved seemed more realistic and desirable. She's not 100% sure either, though. But there is a possibility of internally rejecting attraction as a sort of self-defense mechanism due to a lack of self-acceptance. That doesn't invalidate aroace identities, but I think both of these ideas can and do coexist.

It may be important to also remember here that first of all, both asexuality and aromanticism exist on a spectrum and secondly that they refer to attraction rather than behavior or desire for tangible circumstances. Asexual/aromantic people can still enthusiastically participate in sex/romance, the main point is that they don't experience sexual/romantic attraction for specific people (or only under specific circumstances if we move around on the spectrum). My longterm partner is asexual (but not aromantic), but will participate in sexual activities with me because they love me and it's a pleasurable activity. They find me aesthetically attractive, and may even find certain behavior or body parts arousing, but they're not sexually attracted to me as a person. In fact, sexual attraction doesn't even cross their mind unless prompted. Another more recent connection is aromantic (but not asexual), but doesn't mind participating in traditionally romantic activities and physical non-sexual affection with me, but just doesn't experience crushes/romantic attraction towards people. The entire concept seems a bit hard to understand for them. They "love" me, but conceptualize it mostly as very strong platonic feelings, as far as I can understand. (At this point it might be good to note that I have the most ironic luck at finding partners/connections as someone who experiences very strong sexual and romantic attraction.) My sibling is on the aroace spectrum, but still desires companionship and partnership (cupioromantic has been used as a label before, but not consistently). Romantic and sexual attraction are all just very wibbly wobbly weird concepts in general, just like gender, honestly. Nothing really matters ultimately, but also it kinda does? It's all very silly how much importance society puts on these things, especially when you deviate from the norm.

You asked "Are there different kinds of romance?" and I raise you "What is romance even?". To date I have not been able to come to a conclusion or been given a good answer to that. Ask 10 people and you get 10 different answers. As soon as you divorce the premises of sexual attraction and monogamy from romance, it becomes nigh impossible to even start to define. For a lot of people these seem to be defining factors of romance (as opposed to platonic love). In fact, my current running theory is that romance, on its own, is a social and cultural construct (especially if you look at historic conceptions of it). Nevertheless, romantic attraction is still a feeling I experience, and it feels different than strictly platonic love or even sexual attraction. Best I can do for a description is give general vibes. I cannot even strictly define it for myself. But I have people that I have romantic feelings for without them being sexual. I can be sexually attracted to people I don't harbor romantic feelings for. I even have romantic feelings for people I don't desire a relationship with. It feels a bit like RGB color sliders sometimes, but I think it's even more multidimensional than that. It's honestly kind of frustrating to me. But honestly, yeah, people are multidimensional and we experience the same concepts in different ways. Which actually leads me to my next point:

Being polyamorous and having people with different sexual and romantic orientations taught me that relationships, at the core of it and once you free yourself from social norms, are entirely customizable and don't have to be perfectly symmetrical. I can have romantic/sexual feelings for someone while they don't have those for me and that's okay. We agree on the activities we want to experience together and the ways we'd like to interact and then it's alright. Of course, it's more complicated than that and you do run into conflict/resentment on the way, but as long as you keep and open mind, stay flexible, and are willing, you can establish and experience great and fulfilling interpersonal relationships outside of the norm. Sometimes they don't last, and that's also okay as long as you do your best to have a good time. What I'm saying is, the rules are all made up. Do what you want. Just gotta find the right people. That's not always easy, but it's incredibly worth it.

Anyway, I hope my messy ramblings contributed something and if not, I'm sorry for taking up your time (English is my third language, so my sentences can get a bit too long, I think). Obviously, my point of view is very colored by my own circumstances (notably non-monogamy), but sometimes it helps to look at things from outside of the box.

Hope you have a pleasant life and that you either find the answers you seek or learn to make peace with not knowing.

Yeah, thank's for the help! If you take a quick look at my profile, youll quickly see Im no stranger to long posts, lmao, I love em.

I do think that not being happy with who I am could absolutely be a factor in this. I think it feeds into a general lack of understanding of relationships. I might feel romantic attraction, I dont understand what that feeling is to know whether I feel it or not, so I based my judgement on desire for a relationship.

But I think the main part of it is a combination of not understanding romance and lack of self respect. Its like, if I dont understand what romantic love is, I cant see myself as being lovable? And to me, a big part of my newly discovered desired relationship is emotional support. So I look at that, see it as a desireable aspect of someone, and know I am absolutely incapable of giving it to other people. There are other examples like that, but basically, I dont understand relationships, I consider what I would want out of one, and dont think I have that.

My main takeaway from reading this is I just cant know yet, can I? Im aroace now, these labels fit now, when I start transitioning Ill do whatever. If I get into a relationship, would it be romantic, platonic, Queerplatonic, etc, it really just doesn't matter, its just a relationship and we'd do what we wanted. I'm getting too hung up on figuring things out that are A. Impossible to figure out before I reach the point where it happens and B. Not necessary to figure out.

As for asexuality, Im gonna tread lightly, but yeah, I think I might be some shade of grey ace. If I was in a romantic relationship already I would almost definately wanna be involved that way.

But yeah, your response was really helpful, thank you! I really just shouldn't worry so much, you helped me realise that.