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miss-musings · 6 years

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“THE BLACKLIST” & WHY PEOPLE HATE LIZ SO MUCH

I’ve discussed on here several times how much I’ve been annoyed with the way TPTB have written Liz’s character over the course of the show. But, I tried to keep my frustration and annoyance directed more so at the writers/showrunners and less on the character herself or the actress Megan Boone.

However, after watching 6x10 “The Cryptobanker,” I think I may have finally hit the point where I really started to hate Liz in and of herself. So, I started writing this post, which I’ve added to and edited over the past few weeks, but I still stand by my original point.

Now, I follow the Blacklist on Facebook, and almost every single time there’s a new post, the top-voted comments are always praising Spader/Red and hating on Liz. I’ve seen people say she’s annoying, that they didn’t like this S6 plotline with her and her sister, that they hoped the show kills her off for real soon, etc.

I always thought that most of the comments were somewhat valid but maybe a little overblown (especially the ones about wanting her off the show). But, it really made me wonder why so many people hate -- and I mean HATE -- Liz so much.

While I admit that her character is starting to really get on my nerves, I’m going to try to put my personal feelings aside and tackle this objectively. I want to really look at what reasons within the show, its writing, its format, etc., Liz receives so much more hate -- vastly more than any other character on this show. As I said, Red/Spader is always highly praised along with Dembe, and I rarely if ever see comments complaining about Samar, Aram, Cooper and Ressler. I would guestimate that 95 percent of complaints about any one character are directed at Liz.

A THEORETICAL POSSIBILITY

Now, I will theorize -- and keep in mind that this is only a theory -- that part of the reason for this hatred toward Liz has to do with some male fans being misogynistic/sexist and some female fans’ annoyance at what a crappy avatar Liz makes for. (I’m talking about straight viewers, FYI.)

With regard to male fans, I think they look at Liz -- who at times has been terse, mean-spirited and vindictive -- and see her as a giant bitch. After all, that was the whole idea that Liz herself sets up in the pilot. She is not who her male colleagues expect her to be. She doesn’t play into the traditional feminine role of simpering, smiling and content to sit on the sidelines and let the men sort things out. (And, I’m really generalizing here.) So, I think it’s a fair assumption that some male fans have the same sentiments about Liz that her colleagues canonically have too.

As for the female fans, I think Liz might come off as a poor avatar. When you’re plunged into a fictional universe, usually there’s a character who’s plunged into the story along with you, and you learn as they do, to the point where you start to project yourself onto them. Think Neo in “The Matrix” or Harry Potter or Luke Skywalker. It’s every person’s fantasy to discover some great power within, harness it to defeat the bad guy and win the heart of the beautiful woman/handsome man in the process.

Liz was clearly meant to be our avatar into this universe. We were brought into the world along with her, saw her learn about Red, begin the Task Force, and plunge into this world of the FBI and the Blacklist.

Now, I imagine that for older women, especially, the fantasy is to be the kind of gal that a guy like James Spader would absolutely devote himself to. And that’s exactly how Red treats Liz -- like a woman he would do anything for. However, unlike many viewers, Liz is ungrateful for Red’s devotion and continual sacrifices for her benefit. Instead of seeing him as a savior and white knight, she often sees him as a nuisance and a terror in her life. I personally think she’s often justified in that, but I’d guess that 80 percent of the current audience is watching it simply for Spader’s performance alone. So, when the favorite actor’s character is not appreciated and is continually hated on by his co-lead character, it makes for uncompelling television from a “I want to project myself onto this character” kind of way.

But, with the theoretical discussion out of the way, let’s examine some more concrete reasons as to why people hate Liz.

LIZ IS OFTEN WISHY-WASHY (ie, has little conviction) WHEN IT COMES TO HER FEELINGS AND DESIRES.

This is what I’ve often described as the “Liz loves Red, Liz hates Red, Liz forgives Red” song-and-dance routine. But, there’s much more to it than simply Liz’s relationship with Red.

Liz was first introduced to us as a woman who wanted to start a family, and yet she thought about giving up her baby for adoption and then later gave Agnes away to her mother-in-law so she could spend more time on her revenge plans. The entire pilot goes out of its way to show Liz struggling with the demands of being an FBI agent and a prospective parent, and drives home the whole “Mommy Liz” vibe with the admiral’s daughter.

Yet, when she finds out she’s pregnant, she hesitates and thinks about giving it up for adoption. Then, when she has Agnes, she agrees to Kaplan’s plan to fake her death so she and Tom and Agnes can be happy and safe away from his world. And, later when Agnes gets kidnapped, she frets and worries about her constantly.

But, the minute she wakes up after being in a coma, she’s totally cool with pawning Agnes off to someone she’s never really met. Cool.

I realize there are mitigating circumstances, but this is a woman who made all her loved ones -- Red, Cooper, Ressler, Samar, Aram, any family members she had left (except Tom) -- believe she was dead so she could live with her daughter in a safe location!!!

The idea that Liz wouldn’t just drop everything and give up the Task Force indefinitely to heal and spend time with her daughter after losing 10 months of time with her is absurd, IMO.

But, no, revenge is far more important.

It’s also really annoying that after finding out Tom had betrayed her, she was able to give him a second chance and continued to love him despite all sorts of stuff in Seasons 2-5, but the minute Red does anything, she wants to drop him like heavy airline luggage.

So, in case you forgot: in S1, she found out that Tom had been lying to her, manipulating her, and abusing her. So, after shooting him in the S1 finale, she chains him up on a boat for several months in an effort to make him useful to the Task Force. However, the minute that she hits the “hates Red” part of her “love Red, hate Red, forgive Red” cycle, she runs right back to Tom and very quickly forgives him. And, while her positive feelings for Tom continue from late S2b until his death in 5x08, her feelings about Red are all over the place, as mentioned.

Now, in her defense, her feelings about him seem to waver whenever a crucial piece of information about his involvement in her life is discovered. When Tom’s fake passports were traced back to Red in 1x06, she blamed him and said she didn’t want to work with him anymore. But, then the very next episode, when he offers to leave the Task Force completely, she doesn’t tell him to do so.

And, when Red admitted to killing Sam toward the end of S1, she was again ready to let him leave. But then at the end of the episode, she stops him.

In S2, when Liz believes that Red was only interested in her for the Fulcrum, and never really cared about her, she gives him the cold shoulder. And then when he admits that he did hire Tom to be in her life, her coldness toward him again grows.

While they’re on the run together in S3, their relationship is at its best, arguably. Until she finds out she’s pregnant and he tells her that the fight is not over, and she doesn’t want her child to be in Red’s world. (Which is understandable)

And on and on it goes through S4 and S5 and now S6. The minute Liz realizes that he stole her father’s identity, she’s ready to burn him to the ground. But then only a few episodes later, she’s teary-eyed and regretting that she turned him into the authorities.

AS OPPOSED TO RED’S ...

But, what really makes this all so annoying is the fact that while Liz’s feelings toward Red are cyclical, his feelings for her are constant, enduring, and never wavering. I mean, he’s basically Garth Brooks’ “Shameless” in human form. He is completely devoted to her, would give his life for hers without hesitation, and has loved her (in some form or another) far longer and far deeper than she has seemingly ever loved him.

If both of them liked each other, or if both of them disliked each other initially but then grew closer over time, the show would be much better. For instance, ABC’s Castle -- while it definitely has its flaws -- started off with the two leads liking each other from the start. Yeah, maybe they’re trying to get used to each because he’s a goofball and she’s kind of a hard ass, but it seems like by the end of the pilot, they both generally like each other as acquaintances.

Or NBC’s “The Enemy Within” -- which is eerily similar to TBL and I’ll have to do a whole post on their similarities some other time -- which starts off with the two leads being tenuous with each other. He hates her, and she is kind of neutral toward him, but the two of them need to cooperate to accomplish a shared goal.

This was never the case with Liz and Red on TBL. In the pilot, Liz is very wary of Red, as she should be. However, he -- according to Zamani -- is obsessed with her, and it’s clear that he cares about her far more than he should. To our knowledge, Red has never met adult Liz. He’s seen her from afar and kept tabs on her, of course, but this was the first time he’d met her (presumably) since The Night of the Fire. And from that meeting, his love has only grown, while hers -- as discussed -- has been all over the place.

THE TWO ARE NOT EQUAL

As I’ve said in previous posts, while the show wants Red and Liz to be partners, they are really so unequal on multiple levels. The same could be said of the two leads on “The Enemy Within, but their inadequacies tend balance each other out. She has all the know-how, but he has the freedom and jurisdiction to do things, and he is the one who ultimately makes the decision on what his team should tackle and how. She has some of the power in their dynamic, and he has some as well. Thus, their advantages tend to cancel each other out.

This is not the case with Red and Liz. All this time, Red has withheld crucial pieces of information from her, which he gives to her in piecemeal and only when she demands them. I won’t judge whether that’s the right or wrong thing to do, but it puts her at a disadvantage as far as their dynamic goes. And while Liz should be given some advantage of her own, she really doesn’t have one. Red has an immunity agreement and gets to do pretty much whatever he wants, unlike on “The Enemy Within” where the male FBI agent has some say over what privileges the female CI has because she’s still in custody.

I guess the one advantage that Liz has over Red is that he’s told her he will never lie to her. And she has confronted him and asked him direct questions before because she knows he *has* to tell her to truth if she does. But, that doesn’t stop him from stalling, changing the subject, or trying to do a verbal workaround.

And then, when the show was promoting S6, they made it seem like the power was finally in Liz’s hands -- she knows he’s an impostor and he doesn’t know that she knows.

But, while the show tried to give Liz a bit of an edge over Red, it ultimately fizzled out. She knows he’s an impostor, but she no longer has an interest in pursuing it. Which goes back to my previous point about her not having conviction. She wanted to destroy Red, and betrayed him to ensure that he wouldn’t get in the way of her and Jennifer’s quest to find out his true identity. But then, she drops it.

Again, I realize there was a lot going on -- Jennifer was kidnapped; Red was almost executed. And while I think the fact that, right now, she’s fine with not having all the answers is a sign a maturity, it’s also incredibly frustrating to see how she went from 0 to 100 in such a short span of time.

Anyway... moving on to my next major point:

LIZ DOESN’T FEEL LIKE A REAL PERSON

Relative to the screentime she’s received, Liz does not feel like a real person, but merely a plot device or a vehicle for Red’s schemes and/or the Task Force’s missions.

Very rarely do we get to see her on her own, doing her own things, outside of Red/the Task Force -- going to the store, doing chores at home, hanging out with her kid, etc. The only times we do are when it’s relevant to the overall plot. Like when she gets beat up in the parking lot in 3x11 or when she brings that Lady Ambrosia kid over to her house, tries to cook him something, and then the fire alarm goes off.

She seems solely to exist within Red’s/the Task Force’s orbit.

I feel like the fact that Liz doesn’t have any friends or family outside of the Task Force, Red and Tom (when he was alive), really speaks to how she seems to exist more as a character, not as a person within a fictional universe.

She doesn’t seem to have any hobbies, and outside of her mentioning the Wizard of Oz and a few other things, she doesn’t really seem to have any interests in anything.

By comparison, we have lots of scenes with Red and Dembe, doing puzzles, playing cards and board games. We know Red enjoys art and food/alcohol and traveling, and he has a penchant for some types of drugs -- his favorite being sex.

And even Aram enjoys Doctor Who, biking and cooking.

I’m not saying that Liz needs to start chatting with Ressler about Monday Night Football or playing pool at some local dive bar, but something! Just a line about how she Skyped with Agnes last night, or her talking to Samar or Aram about her trying to decide whether she should download Tinder and try to get back into the dating scene, or a scene of her running around a park but she’s disturbed by memories from her past. Just something. Something to make her feel like a real person, who does things outside of the Task Force.

Again, I always hate the fact that Liz was supposed to have all these friends in S1 (the house party at the end of 1x03 and the vow renewal later in S1), and yet, they seemed to have vanished. I hate the fact that Liz doesn’t have any support system outside of Red and the Task Force. The girl needs friends! Hobbies! Interests! Something!!!

LIZ TRIES TOO HARD TO PROVE HERSELF, GETS IN TROUBLE, AND OFTEN NEEDS TO BE RESCUED BY RED AND/OR THE TASK FORCE AS A RESULT

This gets into a personal pet peeve of mine where Liz reassures people that she can do things. In the most recent case, she told her sister that she was definitely capable of deceiving Red and keeping him from finding out that she knows.

But then within the episode or two, Red definitely knows that Liz is up to something because she has been acting weird around him. And, before she begs Dembe not to tell Red that she was the one who betrayed him, Red was pretty certain that she was the one who did. I would suggest that the minute he was arrested, he had a good suspicion it was her. Hence why he said that what he would do to his betrayer would depend on who they were. He was hedging his bets, in case it was Liz.

Liz and Jennifer kept going back and forth on trying to convince the other that they could pull off this “Find Red’s true identity” side-plot, but ultimately, Jennifer got kidnapped, Liz killed a dude, and ended up having to recruit Ressler and Red to help her find Jennifer and confront the people who took her.

This type of situation happens A LOT on the show. Liz will try to do her own thing (finding Red’s true identity, etc.) and it ultimately gets her into trouble. It seemed to happen more often in S1-3. One example I can think of was when she didn’t kill Tom, but instead captured and imprisoned him, and then he killed the Harbormaster and forced Liz to face charges for murder. Red and the Task Force and even Tom had to come to her rescue to make sure she didn’t face the consequences of her choices. Yes, Tom did kill the Harbormaster, but Liz was the one who had decided to chain him up on the boat in the first place. The murder is on him, but the imprisoning is on her.

Liz also killed the Attorney General, and Red and the Task Force (and Tom, once again) were ultimately responsible for saving her from the Director’s plot while she was trapped in The Box, bringing the Cabal’s actions to light, using the Director as the scapegoat for Hitchen and then getting Liz out of the murder charges by bringing in Karakurt. And then, later, Red was responsible for leveraging the President into pardoning her so that she could become an agent again.

Now, there have been a few occasions where Liz was kidnapped simply because she was an FBI agent, not because of her connection to Red or anything else. For instance, in 1x04 “The Stewmaker,” she’s kidnapped and almost killed because she had her own personal history with that Lorca guy.

But, again, too many times Liz is put in the “damsel in distress” position where either she’s in trouble or her life is threatened and others have to be the ones to save her, either by saving her life or by saving her from legal repercussions, etc.

In a way, this whole S6a has been the consequence of Liz’s actions, which she regretted and then was looking for any and all help to make sure Red wasn’t executed after she’d turned him in. Yes, Red was the one who insisted on the death penalty, but he never would’ve been in that situation if she hadn’t betrayed him. And ultimately, it was Cooper who came through and pressured the President into staying Red’s execution.

Going back to the “Red and Liz aren’t equals” thing, very rarely is Red the one who needs saving. And, even when he is, it isn’t always Liz who’s rescuing him. Again, Cooper was the one who saved Red from execution. Liz has saved him a few times that I can recall -- she stopped that guy from shooting him in 2x14 and she leveraged the Director into calling off the hit in 2x19.

But, again, Liz seems to be in trouble far more often than Red is, and she very rarely is able to save herself (with the solo-Liz episode being one of the few times she does). Meanwhile, Red is able to get out of jams on his own much more often, such as when he escapes Anslo in 1x10. And, he and the Task Force save her far more often than Liz and the Task Force save him. And, even then, sometimes Red saves her single-handedly (like in the S2 Super Bowl episode) while she usually has to work with others to save him.

Once again, I realize there are a lot of mitigating circumstances. Red has a vast criminal empire and more knowledge and resources than Liz does, most of the time. But, I do wish that 1) Liz wouldn’t be kidnapped or have her life/livelihood threatened so often and 2) that Red’s would be a tiny bit more frequently, so that *she* can save *him.*

It also doesn’t help that she was sidelined in S3b partly because she was a felon who was no longer able to be an agent on the Task Force and because both Liz the character and Megan Boone the actress were pregnant. And then she was sidelined again in S4a because of the whole felon thing / trying to get Agnes back.

TL;DR

I believe the reasons why people hate Liz are similar to why people hate Sakura from the “Naruto” Universe (as YouTube channel SwagKage describes in this video):

Liz doesn’t get the character development she should relative to her screentime; and any development she does get seems to be cyclical and inconsistent. (ie, she acts however the writers need her to for the given arc/episode)

Liz often tries to do her own thing, despite warnings not to; and while she’s by no means useless to Red or the Task Force, she often has to be rescued (either directly or indirectly) far more than she does the rescuing.

Liz often acts demanding, ungrateful, and selfish -- or at least relative to how the audience might want her to act, especially with regard to Red. And, jumping off the second point, also has a bit of an ego and can be proud and willful, which as I theorized, might be a turn-off for some male viewers.

Also, the Lizzington shipper in me could point out the parallels between Sakura liking Sasuke (who was a giant dick to her) and hating Naruto (who was constantly helping her out) and Liz’s dynamics with Tom and Red, respectively, but I’ll leave you all to watch the video for yourself.

Overall, I think some of the reasons for hating Liz are valid, but as I said, I *try* not to direct my annoyance toward the character of Liz herself or Megan Boone, the actress, but rather the writers, who I feel need to take responsibility for what they’ve done and continue to do with this character.

Don’t take this to say that I hate the writers, but rather that I want them to do better. I want to see this show succeed and I want to see Megan have some amazing material to work with the same way that James seems to with Red.

I’ll say it again: I don’t hate this show; I merely want to offer up my criticisms and objective-ish insights into why I think people hate Liz so much. In that way, we fans can have a discussion and perhaps maybe the writers will take some of our points to heart.

For my next major TBL post, I’ll try to tackle the similarities between TBL and The Enemy Within. :D

#lizzington #reddington #raymond reddington #liz keen #elizabeth keen #the blacklist #nbc the blacklist #nbc blacklist #blacklist #james spader #megan boone #harold cooper #donald ressler #samar navabi #aram mojtabai #red reddington #masha rostova

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ebaeschnbliah · 6 years

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KILLING THE BEST FRIEND

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After the events shown in Sherlock BBCs ‘The Final Problem’ it really looks like the connections between ‘the skull’, the ‘best friend’ and ‘sacrifying/killing the best friend’ are one of the most important components of the whole story. If not the most important at all. And on a metaphorical level it makes all the sense in the world too.

If you like, enjoy this idea under the cut …

Four cases, four characters, four different stories and each one circles round ‘the death of a best friend’.

a scientist (Frankland)

a detective (Sherlock)

a friend (anonym)

a sister (Eurus)

The Hounds of Baskerville

Little Henry witnesses how his father is murdered by Bob Frankland, his best friend. The scientist and Henry’s father are compared to Sherlock and John.

HENRY: Well, mates are mates, aren’t they? I mean, look at you and John.

For a subtext-reading I recommend @sagestreet ‘s ‘Follow the dog’ meta.

The Reichenbach Fall

JIM: Your friends will die if you don’t. SHERLOCK: John.

The showdown on Bart’s roof leaves two ‘dead’ men behind. Each of them forced the other one to commit suicide. And by doing this, Sherlock kills John’s best friend …. himself.

The Abominable Bride

EMELIA: Swiftly now. No Tears.

A ‘faithful sister’ asks an anonymous friend to kill her. This starts a war which divides ‘the world’ and lets loose invisible armies, raging furies, a monstrous regiment, a mysterieous cult ... subdued for a long time and not allowed to raise their voices.

The Final Problem

There are no dog bones in the well as expected. What emerges out of the water of the well is the skull of little Victor, who once had been Sherlock’s best friend.

In TFP the human skull in the hands of Sherlock’s best friend John, closes the circle backwards

to the skull on the mantlepiece in the living room of 221b Baker Street

to Sherlock, who introduces that skull as ‘friend of mine.’ and

to John’s question ‘So I’m basically filling in for your skull?’

The ‘skull’ and the ‘friend’ are merging into one another …. thereby connecting Victor, John and RedBeard. (More on that topic X)

And then, there is Eurus, the ‘other one’, the sister who supposedly put the skull/the friend in the well. Eurus, who wears a knitted cardigan very similar to John’s jumper. Another connection.

The ghost and the skull

a sister can be called a nun

a headless nun is a sister without a head, without a face, without a skull

Sherlock once had a case … code word ‘headless nun’

a headless nun can be a very effective ingredient of a ghost story

Sherlock accuses Mycroft … ‘You turned my sister into a ghost story:’

Sherrinford is the abode of ‘ghost sister’ Eurus

and in the well at Musgrave Hall lies a skull …

A headless ghost sister and a skull without a body. This still untold story seems to be all about some dramatic division in the past and because of that it almost screams for an end with a ‘reunion’ of skull and body. Of head and transport? Of intellect and emotions? Because ‘just a head’ - even the most cleverest one - isn’t able to exist on its own forever? And eventually the neglected ghost of a body, treated like transport, necessary but annoying, for far too long ….. awakens, begins to stir and demands to be heard.

In other words: .... a snowcaped mountain starts rumbling, becaus it actually is a volcano ….

“Sherlock Holmes, again, must have sexual impulses because human beings tend to -- most human beings, not absolutely all, but that's the majority. The fact is, he decides to put all that in an iron box to make his brain work better. Of course, the fact that that iron box bounces around and shakes and bangs from the inside is what makes the story interesting. He wants to rise above us like a snowcapped mountain, but he's actually a volcano, and that's where the story is. That's where the story is. You know, you shove Irene Adler in front of him, and he just falls apart like most men would.”

Steven Moffat on Sherlock (IGN interview, February 2014)

On a metaphorical level, what does Irene represent in this story? Sexuality. Irene is Mrs. Sex. I wrote about it in ‘Explosive ... it’s more me’. Jim Moriarty - Mr. Sex - represents Sherlock’s very own sex drive. Irene and Jim, both are gay and it looks very much like both are returning by the end of TFP.

Experimenting with metaphors

The metaphor creates the world - the time and place; the who, what, when, where and why. Metaphor literally means to "carry over," to substitute one thing for another. To describe one thing by means of another. To describe something that is unknown by the use of things that are known. (Metaphors in story writing and moviemaking)

Exploring the story told in Sherlock BBC has always fascinated me. And this fascination multiplied since the day I started to suspect that there’s maybe more to discover in it than the already highly interesting, coded subtext …. that even the surface level of that story might consist of carefully crafted metaphors used by the creators to paint a picture. The picture of Sherlock painting a picture inside of his own mind. A picture of himself.

SHERLOCK: Oh, hello again, Archie. What’s your theory? Get this right and there’s a headless nun in it for you. ARCHIE: The invisible man could do it. SHERLOCK: The who, the what, the why, the when, the where? (TSOT)

That this story isn’t only told from Sherlock’s POV but - for the first time in history - Sherlock Holmes himself has become the storyteller. And all the stories he creates and tells himself inside his head - on a mind stage - are presented through Sherlock’s own metaphors, acted out by different characters, clothed in varying costumes, hidden behind masks, some distorted, some made visble by mirrors.

The truth of the matter is that the underlying universal structures of great stories hide some amazing bits of wisdom concerning who we really are and who we were really meant to be, and what we can do to become fully realized human beings - but to keep these amazing hidden bits of truth potent and relevant, the metaphors that express them have to be constantly renewed and kept fresh - i.e. the underlying story and message stays the same but the costumes and other outer trappings have to keep changing with the times. (Metaphors in story writing and moviemaking)

Metaphors in storytelling have been used since humans are telling their stories. And inventing, creating or rewriting stories can also have a great healing effect that should not be underestimated.

In oral and written language, using the medium of picture imagery, metaphor speaks directly to our imaginative faculties, bypassing our rational brain. Such metaphoric byways and pathways enable us to explore the ideas, forces, and powers that lie behind or beyond our rational thought. Metaphors reach deep into our soul imagination and, simply stated, “touch our heart.” ... In Antoine de Saint-Exupéry’s book The Little Prince we learn a simple secret from the fox: “It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye.” (Therapeutic Storytelling)

Basically, this is the advice that Ella Thopson, the changeable therapist, gives at the beginning of the story, in PILOT/ASIP: “.... and it will help so much to write about everything that’s happening to you.”

Metaphors of ‘change’

There exist some key metaphors to express change and inner transformations, that are present in the literature of all world cultures (X).

Transitioning from caterpillar to butterfly

Awakening from the dream of reality

Uncovering the veils of illusion

Moving from captivity to liberation

Purification by inner fire

Going from darkness to light

Moving from fragmentation into wholeness

Moving through life events as a journey or path

Returning to the source

Dying and being reborn

Unfolding the tree of our life

It seems that more than one of those examples can be discovered in Sherlock BBC.

The metaphorical killing of the ‘best friend’

As the saying goes: ‘Old skin has to be shed before the new one can come’. Before any significant change can happen, traditional opinions and views must be challenged, altered and overcome. In The Big Question I tried to work out the core problem Sherlock seems to be dealing with:

There is friendship and there is love, between Holmes and Watson. Ever has been … unchanged … for more than hundred years. I guess no one would deny that. But a loving friendship is not the same as a romantic and sexual relationship.

If the traditional relationship between Dr. John Watson, the ‘fixed point in a changing age’, the eternal ‘best friend’ of Sherlock Holmes should change into a romantic and sexuell relationship, it makes sense that on a metaphorical level:

first the facade needs to go

then the ‘best friend’ can be killed

to finally make way for the ‘lover’

And if this change comes to pass through Sherlock’s own investigations, deductions and conclusions, it makes also sense that it is Sherlock who sacrifices himself in his role as Mary/facade and then shoots John/best friend in his incarntion as Elsa/Eurus …. just as it happens at the end of TST and TLD.

Sherlock’s ‘I love you’ confession in front of a mirror, directed at a mirror, followed a little later by the statement of his former facade ‘I know you two; and if I’m gone, I know what you could become’ ... happens in the very next episode.

A fitting and promising developement of a story that deals with the reunion of intellect and emotion and the metamorphosis from ‘best friend’ to ‘lover’.

Nonetheless, S5 would be highly appreciated at this point. :)))

I leave you to your own deductions. Thanks @callie-ariane for the scripts.

January, 2019

@gosherlocked @raggedyblue @sarahthecoat @possiblyimbiassed @spenglernot @loveismyrevolution @sherlockshadow @sagestreet

#the skull #the friend #killing a friend #metaphorical reading #filling in for the skull #killing the best friend

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twdmusicboxmystery · 6 years

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Updated Thoughts on the Music Box

Good morning! One thing I was asked to post about is an update on the music box. I’ve thought a lot about it since S8 ended. You’d think I would be somewhat depressed or hopeless about it, but actually, I'm more hopeful than ever.

I know there are certain people, mostly haters and skeptics, who get annoyed when our theories change to match the show, but the fact is that as time goes on, we learn more about where the plot is going, and our theories change naturally. It’s only logical that they would. We’ve been wrong many times about when Beth will appear, but looking at the whole, we can see the structure better than ever before.

Let’s talk about the 4-season structure (S4-S8). When Gimple took over in S4, he set the show up for a whole new chapter, as was emphasized in the S4 trailer. He knew a 4-season arc starting with Rick as a farmer and non-leader in order to save Carl. Gimple knew he would move through Rick becoming brutal, having his ups and downs, and Carl would die. The whole point (as far as Rick’s arc goes) was that Carl’s death led to him showing Negan mercy, rather than killing him. It’s what brought Rick full circle and out of his brutality mindset.

Now we come to Beth.

She came front and center in 4x01 with the Bethyl hug, so obviously she was part of Gimple's plan. Let's take a little trip down memory lane, back to S2. TD has talked many times about how Gimple introduced Beth. Though he was only a junior writer in the show at that time, remember that he and only he worked on her suicide arc. With that arc he introduced her to the fandom in a way that made them root for her. Not necessarily like her, you understand, but root for her. I say that because her mindset and actions in S2 made her be perceived as a weak character.

Because she chose to live, people were glad and hoped she would continue to live, even if they saw her as weak overall. That way, they knew her and would remember her back story. That made it easy for him to have her step into a bigger role later in the show, which she did in S4.

I also want to point out that we actually know the showrunners have considered using Beth's death more than once as a catalyst for events in the show. Specifically, as a focal point of tragedy and to affect the other characters’ mindsets. They could've had her actually commit suicide in S2 if they wanted. They didn't, but if they had, what would that have accomplished? In terms of her character, not much. She would've been a disposable character that no one really liked and few remembered. But it would have caused a great deal tragedy for the Greene family. Rick and co. didn't know her very well then, and therefore wouldn't have been very sad about her death, but they would've had a lot of sympathy for the Greene family’s loss. Glenn would have had sympathy for Maggie, Rick for Herschel, and it probably would have affected Daryl, at least somewhat, because he was already in a dark place after losing Sophia.

Then in S3, although it again didn't happen, we know the showrunner planned to have Axel murder Beth in the prison. By then, the whole group had been together on the road for a season, and were much closer. Again, this would have affected TF bc of the tragedy of it, and probably been a catalyst for various plot lines. My point is that they planned more than once to use Beth's "death" to affect other characters and the plot.

After letting S8 percolate in my head for a few weeks, I've concluded that Gimple actually did the same thing when he brought Beth front and center in S4 as he did with her in S2. Of course, it was on a much bigger scale. He set her up in a way that would make people (Daryl) and the audience (again, because of Daryl) care about her deeply. Then Gimple took her away.

Her loss greatly affected both Maggie and Daryl, but also Rick and other members of TF. Because of Noah, it greatly affected events in the plot, sending TF north, toward DC, and sending Daryl spiraling downward into darkness. But I believe that Gimple very strategically reintroduced Beth to the audience in S4/S5 as 1) Daryl's love interest, 2) a person who's become strong, going from suicidal to bad ass, and 3) in an arc that would make us remember her and her back story and allow them to very easily have her step into a bigger role later down the road.

We see a lot of repeating arcs in the show, and the way they've written Beth's arc is no different.

So basically, I believe that Gimple always planned to do the 4-season arc and he had S4 through S8 plan from the very beginning. Because TD identified so many 8s or instances of 4-8 in the show and around Beth, we naturally assumed she’d be part of the 4-season arc. Obviously were wrong. But I think Gimple set her up early in S4 but always planned to have her return later, after that initial 4-season story.

This is been done other shows, in other universes. It may sound silly, but the best example can think of is the Marvel universe. (I'm sure there are better examples, but go with me on this.) TWD, like the Marvel universe, is full of dozens of different characters story lines, arcs, settings, and plots. So, remember after the first Avengers movie, there is an after-the-credits scene (not unlike Morgan's after-the-credits scene in Coda) that introduced Thanos (the purple bad guy in space, for those who don't know).

People who read the comics instantly recognized who Thanos was. (Kinda like people who read the TWD comics instantly recognized Beth’s scars as being Andrea’s.) We then didn't see him for several movies. He’s the focus of Infinity War, so he finally showed up in a film several years later. So we had a post-credits scene where they set up a foreshadow or a hint of something to come. But they had other stories to tell, other characters to develop, and it was years before the character they teased in that post-credits scene came into play in a big way.

So I think Gimple set Beth up as part of his 4-season arc, but she was never going to re-enter the story until after AOW ended. We thought she would, and were wrong about that. That doesn't mean she won’t reappear, though.

To recap: Gimple, who is famous for planning 10+ seasons in advance, set up a 4-season arc, and knew from the beginning how S8 would end. He had all the characters and arcs planned out, so he must then have known what would come after as well. He must have S9 already planned.

He tasked a certain female writer (Angela Kang) with writing the important Beth/Daryl episodes,

knowing that Beth would be written out of the story for a time, but that a return would be teased. Meanwhile, in the midst of everything that was going on with Rick's arc (remember what @thegloriouscollectorlady said about Coda really being all about Rick and from Rick's POV) Gimple apparently killed Beth off and then her body then disappeared. The episode in which that happened was called “Coda.”

So think of it this way. If the S4-S8 arc represents the main part of the song, well, the coda should come after that. Norman has hinted at a romance for Daryl in S9, we have some interesting things going on with Morgan in Fear, and Angela Kang will take over as show runner next season. Hmm.

Okay, I guess I haven't actually mentioned music box very much, so let me just say this:

The music box waking up was a resurrection symbol. I just don't think we can get around that. I know not everyone agrees with me on that, but we haven't seen any other symbol associated with a character that has woken up like that after the character dies. Granted, it would be kind of hard to do with other characters. For most others, like Michonne’s sword, Daryl’s crossbow, or Rick's gun, if they woke up and started doing things on their own, well, that would be creepy.

But they particularly chose something that could wake up for Beth. When Carl Carl found it, it was broken. They could've done things differently. The could've used her diary, or her necklace, or something else associated with her as a symbol and left it on the grave as they did with other people like Tyrese. If they wanted to use a music box as her symbol in this same way, they should've introduced earlier. Perhaps she and Daryl could've found it while they were together. It could have stayed broken or just worked the entire time. No, this was very specifically crafted. They used a music box to represent her, even though it was never actually associated with her in the show. It was very obviously broken, even after Daryl “fixed” it. Then, explicably, it suddenly burst to life and started singing again.

Not many ways that you can interpret that symbol other than resurrection. So I stand by what we’ve always said about the music box. It represents Beth being alive. I also think the symbolism we saw in 5x09 with Glenn breaking the CD goes along with this. Thinking of that reminds me of the line from the American Pie song: The day the music died… So then to reiterate that, we had a BROKEN music box. But then what happened?

“I still sing.”

Last time we saw the music box was in 5x16. I think showing it there represented, as I’ve said before, that the music box and what it represents are still in play, but we weren’t going to see it for a while. And we haven't. In 5x16, we saw Carl and Judith looking at it with the Morse code poster behind them, and it was in conjunction with scenes of the Wolves. All of which in my opinion are hints to how she will return. She will return after Carl's death, and probably in conjunction with the Wolves.

I also want to throw this out there. In 5x16, Aaron found a license plate on the wolf truck that said 816. We hoped that pointed to Beth’s (and possibly the Wolves) return in 8x16. Obviously not. However, we saw the music box in that same episode. So I'm wondering if perhaps it was meant to show that Beth and the wolves would return after 8x16. In other words, the current arc (S4-S8) would end after 8x16, and then the music box would return. Just an idea.

So maybe you will think this is compelling stuff, or maybe you’ll roll your eyes at it. Once again, Norman did hint that Daryl would have some romance after AOW, which will be S9. And Gimple said beginning of S5 that Daryl would eventually find love. So I’m going to reiterate this once more. If next season they bring on a new love interest for Daryl, and it's a genuine love interest, with a lot of the same symbols we’ve seen with other couples (like intertwined fingers while holding hands)

and phrases we’ve heard with other soulmate couples, at that point I will finally give up on Beth's return. Because it will be obvious that they always planned a different love interest for Daryl and it’s not Beth.

But I don’t believe that will be the case. I think Daryl’s love interest will be Beth and she’ll finally get her coda.. The intertwined fingers always show a person’s long-term partner. If Beth wasn’t meant to be that for Daryl, they wouldn’t have shown us the symbols. We’ve seen them with Richonne, Carnid (which made sense bc Carl was never going to have another love interest since he died soon after kissing Enid) and we’re starting to see them with Carzekiel. Between these facts and Norman’s, “If Daryl falls in love with you he’s going to love you for the rest of his life,” Beth is really the only love interest Daryl will ever have.

I think we may see the music box again next season, just before or when she appears, because that's her symbol.

So these are my updated thoughts on the music box. It's going to be a long hiatus, but I'm very hopeful for S9. Thoughts?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl #beth's music box

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