#I’d say Marinette salt as equaling to Marinette critical

[elina-sakura]

I agree, I do like Marinette as a protagonist. The problem is how she’s written ends up making her not a great protagonist.

The way with how the writers tried to implement Marinette into the Agreste Arc and create a connection with the main villain felt forced, honestly. Especially with how Gabriel seems to have such an animosity towards Ladybug, and only Ladybug. Not the other permanent holder who defeats his Akumas and plans alongside Ladybug (for the most part but that’s a whole separate writing issue in of itself). Who, we the audience, knows that the villain and the hero are father and son AKA setting up a personal confrontation and connection without either characters knowing that and doing absolutely nothing about them except in what if episodes. Whereas the only personal connection Marinette and Gabriel had was that Gabriel was Marinette’s favorite fashion designer and then forgetting about it later in the show. And then came up with a new way to connect the two by having them both come from a similar background (middle-class family in the food business aspiring to be fashion designers and falling in love with an upper class love interest) all the way in season 5, and their love for Adrien (which completely backfires with how they end things in season 5).

To me, it looked like the writers were trying to set up how the two are similar and Marinette could grow into being like Gabriel, especially since there are some similarities to the two besides their backgrounds (being perfectionists, control freaks, obsess with their love interests). Which, and this is just my opinion you are free to disagree, I find interesting and would have liked to see an arc like that since I’ve seen something similar in Amphibia with Anne and King Andrias. I had thought if they go down that route, they would be having Marinette’s arc be that while Marinette is in a flawed position, she would overcome the flaws and become a better person while Gabriel would double down on his flaws and that would become his downfall (again this is just my idea and interpretation; you are free to disagree with me). However, the writers boggled the idea in a lot of ways by having Marinette too similar to Gabriel and make the main ship be painted in a bad light, like Adrien is dating someone much like his father (who is an abusive father mind you). It is especially shown in the season 5 ending that Marinette has ended up becoming like Gabriel 2.0, with her not telling Adrien that he is a sentibeing, that his father was Monarch, etc, and deciding what is best for him out of love for Adrien, which is both controlling what Adrien knows, respecting Gabriel’s (his abuser) wishes, and making her no better than Gabriel.

This unfortunately makes her unlikeable and not a great protagonist. We’re supposed to be rooting for her as the main character. The audience are suppose to see her as a role model to children. But the writers messed up what they were trying to accomplish and end up making Marinette looking like a bad person. Now you could say the writers maybe plan to have Marinette get called out and go through a character arc for what she did last season. But again, there’s a lot of problems with that direction. 1) We had the same belief that the writers would do something about giving Marinette a character arc after the Ladynoir conflict in season 4, but we clearly see in the ending of season 5 that is not the case, and 2) this character arc would only serve Marinette at the cost of other characters, especially one character of interest: Adrien. He was removed from the finale and his final confrontation with his father (without ever learning that his father was Monarch while he was lied about his origin and the truth of his family). And now Adrien would have to react to the truth of the Final Battle, but there would no emotional confrontation impact he could have had if his father was still alive. And with how the writers tend to have Adrien gloss over his feelings to hype up Marinette and make her feel better, I honestly am afraid that is going to be the case if they do this arc (and even go as far as to say Adrien is the one in the wrong for being (rightfully) mad at Marinette/Ladybug for not telling him the truth).

As you guys stated, this is what we see for a majority of the show: Marinette being in the spotlight for too much of the time, and not enough focus with the other characters. To the point she ends up taking over various character arcs that should be for other characters. Prime example: Adrien Agreste with the Agreste Arc. In the canon timeline, we have Marinette who learns about Adrien’s origin, Gabriel’s identity as Monarch, be the one who tries to talk him down and supposedly change him (keyword supposedly). When that kind of stuff should have gone to, oh I don’t know, Adrien Agreste himself! The sentibeing himself whose existence is the catalyst for the entire Agreste Arc. The son of the main villain who he had been fighting for canonically almost a year. Heck, he is more in-character to be the one to try to talk down his father than a complete stranger who has nothing to do with the Agreste Arc personally. But instead, the outsider who has no personal connection to the Agreste Arc is the one who resolves the arc (and fails while doing so).

These kind of stuff is why people would get turn off with Marinette as the main protagonist. As you guys stated, Marinette takes too much attention from the story that she takes the other characters’ places, especially the secondary protagonist Adrien Agreste. It’s like having the same food over and over again. At first you like/love it, but overtime, you get tired of it and you want something else or perhaps a smaller portion alongside the other foods you want to have. That’s how I feel is the case for Marinette. The writers put her in the spotlight so many of the times, she takes away the focus from other characters who need the spotlight, like Adrien, Alya, and Nino. And this is not Marinette’s fault I would say. The writers are the ones that are trying to get Marinette to be the one to carry the show on her back, but that is only making Marinette suffer as well with the other characters.

Am I selfish for wishing Marinette wasn't the protagonist? She doesn't really connect to the plot besides her love arc and I don't find it that interesting. Like a lot of female protagonists like the cast of Totally Spies the girls force to work for Jerry, or Bloom finding she's a fairy and has the dragon flame or Iris from lolirock who finds out she's Princess of Ephedia. Like you have all these ladies who's arc isn't just connected to just love like it's part of it but romance isn't central to their character they have more to them.

Like it's so weird honestly because I never really knew of a protagonist who just didn't connect with the story instead the secondary character has. His father the villain, he has fans and many who crush on him, he's a model but he's secretly also the famed ChatNoir, he's an abused child who want their parent attention, rich, and a little behind when it comes to social cues. Like? Are we sure he's not the protagonist is that why the show gives him such little contributions and makes others take what he's deserves. Like the book from early on s2, felix finding out his mother in the basement, Kagami learning early on the whole agreste situation and doing a whole play in front of Ladybug with Felix to convey the situation.

She's in every episode most MC's aren't always there sometimes they leave for an episode or two or have someone take the spotlight but she is there 24/7. Like I kinda want to know another character for a chance because I already gauged enough of her character to know romance is all there is to her lol. I don't know can't we have an Adrien central episode, Alya, Kagami, hell even Luka?

No wonder I think the cast are so bland to me because they just appear we don't really know them personally besides if they get akumatized.

Marinette to me is like if we're seeing the blushing female girl and the entire show from a Hinata perspective in Naruto just there to pine for a boy who aren't even that close.

You're not selfish for that, anon. We all have our different tastes. Personally, I like Marinette as the protagonist, but we all have different likes and dislikes.

I will say that the writing for Marinette as a protagonist is pretty lacking though. She doesn't have any connection to the main plot on her own and can only have any relevance in the final battle of her show by taking the place of some other character. The show is literally allergic to taking the focus off her for more than five seconds. Plenty of shows that have a single character as their main lead also devote few episodes to the developing the side characters.

For example, a superhero show like Miraculous would usually have an episode where Ladybug is incapacitated, and Chat Noir has to do the saving. But Miraculous can't handle not having Marinette be the one to save the day at all times, so Chat Noir is just always reduced to being the sidekick or the one who gets caught and has to have Ladybug save him. Like, even in episodes where it seems like Chat Noir will have a larger role to play, the writers can't help but have it be Ladybug who saves the day in the end. Even in episodes that seem like they are going to focus on Adrien, Marinette will have some B plot shoehorned in that will take over the entire episode until it seems like Adrien's conflict is the actual B plot.

Like you said, it's not wrong for the protagonist to take a step back in a few episodes and let the supporting characters shine. Miraculous' habit of shoving Marinette into the resolution for every other conflict but her own is detrimental to both her own character and every other character. It's just bad writing, honestly.

Thank you for your ask!

[ilikekidsshows]

Thank you so much for pointing out how Marinette’s stalking is the correct narrative parallel to Chat’s sexual harassment. I find it so telling of Maribug stans when they avoid mentioning this to bring up her other flaws like being a bad leader, because it’s a way for them to pretend like even at her worst, she’s still “not as bad” as Chatdrien.

If we’re going to treat Chat’s overly flirtatious attitude as sexual harassment, then we damn sure better treat Marinette secretly following Adrien around as stalking. But of course, the fact that one is condemned and not the other is just pure bias. I can at least respect the fans who admit this, but the ones who pretend like they’re equally critical of both are so infuriating.

Personally, I was happy to write off their actions as just being romcom gags (you can tell just by looking at how many older iconic Hollywood romcoms engage in deeply toxic behavior when we examine them from that point) even after a retcon told us to actually take their behavior seriously. But as pointed out, only one party genuinely apologized for their behavior and corrected it, and that party is not Marinette.

So yet again, we end up with a case of stans wanting to hold other characters to higher standards than they’re willing to hold the literal lead of the show. I’d probably question if there was some underlying sexism in supporting how the narrative consistently enables Marinette’s victimhood, but that’s also just White Feminism 101.

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I've seen the discourse loops Marinette stans rely on so many times that I've learned to spot them. Also, I'm pissed off enough to bring it up instead of politely ignoring it. Basically, after getting so many Marinette stans in my inbox whining about "double standards", I got wise to their ways.

The “sexual harasser Cat Noir” is the only card in their arsenal for this kind of discourse, so of course they’re going to pull it indiscriminately. It’s because the only defence for it really is “romance genre trope”, which basically amounts to “bad writing”, and, if they can get anyone criticising Marinette to admit other characters are written poorly, they can go “Gotcha! So everything Marinette ever does wrong ever that the story and writers defend is just bad writing too!” because, as long as they can create that false equivalence, they can shut down any criticism towards the main lead, never mind how these behaviors are not treated the same by the narrative or the writers to begin with. And, like, the worst thing about this false equivalence is that it’s so wide-spread that even people not just covering for Marinette buy into it, thinking they also can’t really criticize the way Marinette’s written specifically, because all characters are badly written to some degree in this show.

And, like, ignoring the elephant in the room that is Marinette’s stalking even when discussing Adrien’s equivalent sexual harassment is based on the years-long taboo on bringing the stalking up period. Like, the stalking has been the biggest ixnay in this fandom if you wanted anything you say to be taken seriously instead of as “bad faith salt”. Like, when I was comparing how the show demonized Chloé for her bad trauma coping while excusing Marinette for hers, I referred to the stalking as “unsavory behavior” because that’s how ingrained the “don’t use the word: stalking” was, and a Marinette stan claimed I was demonizing Marinette for “having anxiety” when literally everyone else could tell the post was about the stalking. Marinette stans take the idea that the stalking is a taboo topic so for granted that they’ll gladly ignore its very existence.

You can also bet none of the people whining about fairness/double standards/hypocrisy in salt are telling the bajillion Adrien or Alya salt blogs on this website to salt on Marinette for the sake of keeping things balanced.