#I would consider this transmisogyny

[edwardallenpoe]

man I sure do hope people who say that trans people don't have to present hyper-binary or be passable are normal about masc/butch trans people, including trans women who don't want surgeries or hrt or use she/her pronouns. Man I sure do hope they don't just mean femme trans men and exclude trans women and nonbinary masculine people. Man I sure do hope that they aren't super fucking weird about masculinity, especially when performed by trans women.

[bunnyboy-juice]

spent the first hour and change at work deleting some old files and am having a grand ol time laughing at myself for not realizing i was a lesbian sooner

[itoshikinozomu]

It's quite a red flag when I see people on here consider tme and afab as interchangeable terms, especially if the person is tme, because not only it take away the biggest ratio of people to whom it applies which also turn out to be (arguably almost) every men, but also...what is the point to make it all about yourselves as if it was an oppression competition? To what extend do these people have to go to make sure everything in life must be about themselves and their own personal identity crisis?

[psychoticallytrans]

I do wish that "oppositional sexism" was a more commonly known term. It was coined as part of transmisogyny theory, and is defined as the belief that men and women, are distinct, non-overlapping categories that do not share any traits. If gender was a venn diagram, people who believe in oppositional sexism think that "men" and "women" are separate circles that never touch.

The reason I think that it's a useful term is that it helps a lot with articulating exactly why a lot of transphobic people will call a cis man a girl for wearing nail polish, then turn around and call a trans woman a man. Both of those are enforcement of man and woman as non-overlapping social categories. It's also a huge part of homophobia, with many homophobes considering gay people to no longer really belong to their gender because they aren't performing it to their satisfaction.

It's a large part of the reason behind arguments that men and women can't understand each other or be friends, and/or that either men or women are monoliths. If men and women have nothing in common at all, it would be difficult for them to understand each other, and if all men are alike or all women are alike, then it makes sense to treat them all the same. Enforcing this rift is particularly miserable for women and men in close relationships with each other, but is often continued on the basis that "If I'm not a real man/woman, they won't love me anymore."

One common "progressive" form of oppositional sexism is an idea often put as the "divine feminine", that women are special in a way that men will never understand. It's meant to uplift women, but does so in ways that reinforce the idea that men and women are fundamentally different in ways that can never be reconciled or transcended. There's a reason this rhetoric is hugely popular among both tradwifes and radical feminists. It argues that there is something about women that men will never have or know, which is appealing when you are trying to define womanhood in a way that means no man is or ever has been a part of it.

You'll notice that nonbinary people are sharply excluded from the definition. This doesn't mean it doesn't apply to them, it means that oppositional sexism doesn't believe nonbinary people of any kind exist. It's especially rough on multigender people who are both men and women, because the whole idea of it is that men and women are two circles that don't overlap. The idea of them overlapping in one person is fundamentally rejected.

I think it's a very useful term for talking about a lot of the problems that a lot of queer people face when it comes to trying to carve out a place for ourselves in a society that views any deviation from rigid, binary categories as a failure to perform them correctly.

[euniexenoblade]

The Rocky Horror discourse is so annoying, upsetting, and transmisogynistic cuz it often starts off as trans women just honestly discussing how they have trauma related to it or how the film has all the classic transmisogynistic tropes of killer/rapist man crossdressing or how the creator has said some bigoted stuff, and the tme response to personal stories of trauma and actual media analysis is always the same cycle of responses.

"MY trans women friends love it!" Ok that doesn't matter to the point "It's important queer history!" That's why this discussion matters, we need people to understand that queer history can also be transmisogynistic "it's from 50 years ago society is DIFFERENT!" The world is not so different that transmisogyny doesn't exist "the creator is trans!" The creator has said transmisogynistic things and just because he himself might be tma doesn't mean he can't be transmisogynistic or that his transmisogyny doesn't actually influence his identity. "Rocky Horror is ONLY popular cuz transfems love it!" Spacelazar said this one in response to a post I made about actual trauma I have related to the movie, completely discarding my actual real trauma that's not saying you're not allowed to like or watch the movie, to claim that Rocky Horror is only popular cuz of transfems - that cis society isn't more why it's considered a cult classic.

And, tme people just refuse to empathize and often resort to name calling, memes, often times not just falling into misogynistic standards (hysterical women/trannies amiright guys) but also racist remarks (I saw a white tme person make a "woke" joke to mock a black person).

It's just completely dishonest and transmisogynistic. The discussion isn't "you're not allowed to watch Rocky Horror" or "you're a bad person for enjoying it" it's that it's a piece of problematic media that exhibits transmisogynistic bigotry and instead of using their big kid brains and acknowledging that and moving on, tme people really need Rocky Horror to be exonerated as this piece of perfection. (Tbf I think it's largely just cuz it's trans women having an issue, if cis men said Rocky Horror was offensive and misandric I'm sure people would be like oh yeah it is!).

[cyprozombiegirl]

Help a trans girl recover from tumblr’s institutional and systematic transmisogyny

hey folks, so tumblr nuked my account (cypro-girl) and deleted most of the posts I had depicting me dilating (aka doing a medical treatment to myself) or talking about the joys of bottom surgery. They left up the photos of me pre bottom surgery hard as a rock though 🤔. Anyways I’ve tracked down and saved as many of my former posts as I could but there are a bunch that might still be circulating, if you find any or have any already on your blog can you please please send them to me?

I suspect, given tumblr under Matt (I miss David) has been infamous for destroying any attempt by trans femmes to think/talk about our own bodies or oppression, and the fact that it had been primarily my posts about bottom surgery that have been removed from the site, that it was this positivity that got my blog (and backup blog) deleted. This is the second time I got nuked, my old blog cyproterone-girl has 23k followers when it got destroyed. I’d just built back up to 10k and thought I was safe cause I was being a lot more cautious. I had zero flagged posts and my blog wasn’t labeled as explicit, so this was tumblr escalating its epistemic violence against me from 0 to 100.

If you could please share this post so new people and past followers can find my new blog I would deeply appreciate it. I’ve appealed the deletion but I highly doubt tumblr will act in good faith and restore it. So for now this is my blog. I’m also sorta considering launching a class action lawsuit against tumblr but we’ll see if I want to devote the time and energy to doing so. I guess that depends on how much more tumblr pissed me off. They even deleted my gf’s main blog (steadfastcr0w) their damn poetry blog. So I’m pretty livid. I lost a passion project of mine, and feel like tumblr is forcing my exhibitionist self into sex work, cause they won’t let me post about my body for free like I want to (and I’ll be damned to hell if I start using reddit or X).

Anyways yeah, please share this!

[lttleghost]

also I just have to say as a transmasculine person myself - I feel like other guys not being able to relate to their favs if they are interpreted as transfem instead of transmasc, espec in regards to characters who have that coercive and harmful relationship with manhood, are suffering from a skill issue

it's not like you're being asked to sacrifice every connection with a character you have to interpret her as transfem... unless the only thing you clung to was your transmasc headcanon, in which case do you actually even like the character? like it's really hard for me to see how ppl who bring up "relating" doesn't have a connection to fandom misogyny and transmisogyny, like it's a similar reason ppl bring up not having female favs in general as well

"Most popular transmasc headcanons would be more character accurate as transfem headcanons" ok but I think part of this is just what is personally relatable to you! I do agree on Dave though because davepeta rlly makes a lot more sense if not being obligated to masculinity is freeing to Dave. I feel like if Dave was transmasc being fused with a cat girl wouldn't be so gender for him

i mean yeah part of it is based on what is personally relatable to each person, but if you think that fandom doesn’t prefer men & masculinity over women & femininity in a misogynistic (and this case transmisogynistic) manner then your brain is cooked i’m afraid. like there is a massive massive trend of transmascs on this website taking a character whose whole thing is rejecting the masculine identity they were forced into and rejecting maleness, and then saying “he is transmasc and the most liberating thing for this character is for him to be a man”. Jesse Pinkman, Shinji, Peter Parker, Dean Winchester - these are all characters who would be objectively happier if they didn’t have to live up to the masculine archetypes they’re forcing themselves into. this isn’t a matter of “different strokes” so much as it is “i choose not to see what the story is about bc i want to be the cool male figure, he could be me, a trans guy could be this too!”

[unlimitedbutchworks]

honestly I think that the core of a lot of issues of transmisogyny and bioessentialism that you see with tme trans people exists solely because they do not want to see transfems as equally valid victims of gendered oppressions whom they have gendered power over, because doing so would require them to unlearn ideas of sex-based oppression rather than talk around them and be quiet. a lot of trans guys and nonbinary people just never grew past this, still happily talking about how they still experience misogyny due to “being a female��� and never bothered trying to consider transfems in their analysis and it’s a problem. people act like they have to believe in this bullshit or pretend that they never faced misogyny or oppression growing up, and it’s a bullshit false dichotomy that only serves transmisogyny. seriously, open almost any post talking about transmasc issues and you’ll see a guy talking about himself and others as female or otherwise utilizing the language of sex based oppression, unaware or uncaring of how it implicitly erases the misogyny transfems are subject to.

a large majority of transmisogyny from tme trans people is either stemming from this frustration that they have to respect trans women’s experiences with misogyny despite lacking the female birth assignment they view as critical, or a post-hoc justification of these views, they don’t really believe trans women are men or access male power, but instead “just find it important to talk about uniquely female issues and misogyny”, which, yknow, always include things trans women also experience, but try telling that to the implications they make

[xenosagaepisodeone]

this is just my perspective as a tme person observing the ongoing discourse on the dashboard but when I read someone attempt to conflate transmisogyny as something that "technically" does not just effect trans women, therefore permitting other groups to lay claim to being victims of it and weaving their experiences into our conceptualization of it, I find myself remembering how trans women were conceived of by wider culture prior to maybe 2011. "dead trans sex worker" was a punchline to a joke. you could tune in to the comedy network during daytime hours and hear a standup comedian rattle off a bit about it. you would see it all over tv and in movies, and not a single actor bleating about it registered that they were talking about a human being. and its not like the bit had come out of nowhere, the regimented ostracization inflicted upon these women, relegating them to survival sex workers whose assault, abuse and deaths were horrifically common, baked them into a cohesive underclass that polite society was both aware of and amused by. systematized unpersoning in its most literal form. is it not cruel to then dilute a term used to describe (and therefore understand and protest) a form of mistreatment that others consider either self-justified or nonexistent (assuming that they ever cared to wonder about the experiences these women have to endure at all)? who are you helping by decentering the intended victims of this abuse? (<- rhetorical question)

[gamer-goo]

The whole thing with considering theyfab like a slur when it is literally punching up reminds me that transmisogyny is like not a serious social pressure to most people.

I’ve seen this in many cases in my life, most notable was a former roommate who would routinely get upset with me for taking issue with her implicit transmisogynist behavior(I distinctly recall her saying I don’t get to decide what is and isn’t transmisogynist but that was part of an entire falling out that I regret my handling of to a certain extent), but you see it in other ways too!!!! People not knowing what the word even means is an example of this, they distort it’s meaning to be something that affects them because then it’s serious, but when it just hurts dolls it’s on a lower level.

I forget who said it, but the example I first saw was that transmisogyny is stored on the same tier of “levels of discrimination that matter” as people thinking furries are weird. And that’s literally true! Transgender women on this website will talk about how deeply transmisogyny affects us in all aspects of life, only to be met with people saying shit like “just log off” “please touch grass” or one of my least favorites “normal people: hey man what’s up” because to them it is just Not Real.

[soup-mother]

Wish ppl would fucking shut up with the "if a place doesn't accept trans women/amab nonbinary ppl then it means they just see trans men/nb's as women!" like yea sometimes but also consider maybe some people actually just fucking hate trans women and will accept other trans ppl but not trans women? transmisogyny exists in trans spaces like fucking cmon. like the ppl saying that shit on the post I just reblogged when it's explicitly about how even other trans and queer ppl, who accept other trans and queer ppl, will still be transmisogynistic. stop fucking trying to make this about you holy fucking shit just shut uuuup. care about the people actually being fucking mistreated and not about how actually transmisogyny is bad because it disrespects you when you really think about it. just fucking shut uuuuup please for the love of fucking god.

"yea i know they called you a male socialised rapist but like can we talk about how that means they see me as a girl???? 😢"

Like i just really fuckin need people to understand that some places just genuinely do respect trans ppl other than trans women. like it's not actually some secret misgendering of you it's actually just transmisogyny!

[katrafiy]

Hiya tumblr! Let's have a talk about bioessentialist enbyphobia, transmisogyny, and how to make sure transfeminine people, enby or not, feel completely unsafe and unwelcome at your events. First take a look at this group description, and then lets get into it.

First some context. Those of you who know me know about the kinds of clubs I go to. This screenshot was taken from a local event page, and I've blocked out their name because in the months since this event was hosted the group has updated their description to be more inclusive.

Seeing that description, I avoided going to events hosted by that group.

"But Kat, why? You're a woman and it says women are allowed!"

It also implicitly lumps all nonbinary people who were assigned male at birth with men and calls them males.

So why is this a problem for me? Well, if this group sees all AMAB nonbinary people as "male" then it says a lot of things about the ways the see trans women.

Many, and I would venture to assume most, trans women know well the feeling of our womanhood treated as conditional, subject to immediate revocation without warning.

Spaces that are "Women and AFAB exclusive" are often rife with this, and often lead to a lot of really gross and abusive power dynamics where transfems get treated as second class to anyone who was assigned female at birth.

(Side note: Gretchen Felker-Martin did, I believe, a masterful job of portraying this sort of dynamic in her book Manhunt)

If you are a trans woman in one of these spaces, you quickly learn that you are on the thinnest of ice.

Laugh a little too loud? You're male.

Sit or stand a little too close? You're threatening.

Smile at the wrong person? You're making other people uncomfortable.

Transfems, in these spaces, quickly learn that standing up for ourselves in the face of flagrant abuse is verboten, and will be met with swift and decisive punishment and exile.

I personally don't like the word "theyfab" and don't use it. I'm writing this thread to hopefully help people better understand the social dynamics that were being addressed when that term was coined.

It was coined because transfems are forced to navigate a community of things like "afab only" apartment rentals.

It was coined because transfems constantly have to listen to other trans people implicitly describe us as disgusting, hideous freaks.

In short and in closing: consider that the reason why the term "theyfab" exists and "theymab" really doesn't probably lies somewhere in the fact that the sort of person who would call someone a "theymab" doesn't need to, because they *already* just call AMAB trans people "male".

[fishing-lesbian-catgirl]

I don’t know why so many people in the tags of me reblogging the ‘is it okay to suggest to a man who seems kind of eggy that he might be a trans woman’ poll are so quick to jump to “it’s never okay to tell someone they are a trans woman!” No sorry that’s a lie. I know exactly why they keep doing this.

The poll asked if it’s okay to suggest to a man that he might be transgender. It didn’t say “tell” it didn’t say “force” it didn’t say “coerce” or “harass,” it said SUGGEST.

You were perfectly capable of understanding the difference between suggesting and telling for all the other polls, so why did your mind change for this one?

What we’ve all been pointing out is that they did a poll of this exact question but with every other major queer identity and for every single one of them the “I’m not a [gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans man, nonbinary] but I think [yes/no]” options, the “yes” option was way higher than the no. Whereas for trans women the poll was sitting at “no” as the majority for a while and now “yes” is only a slight bit higher.

Think about why that is for a second.

You, person who feels the need to write an essay in the tags about how it’s only okay with specific circumstances or how it’s not okay unless some theoretical condition is fulfilled, think for a second, and don’t lie to yourself, if you would’ve wrote tags about that on any of the other polls.

If you are one of the many people whose immediate reaction to the poll was to think of all the ways that trans woman would be in the wrong for a suggestion, seriously think about why that is.

The mere suggestion that a man might be a trans woman is so offensive to you, but none of the other ones were. I know you people don’t bother listening anything we say about transmisogyny but could you, just for a moment, consider that maybe, just maybe, we might not just be hysterical trannies making things up for some sort of oppression Olympics

[trans-androgyne]

I think the weirdest accusation of transmisogyny I saw was years back, when I reblogged a cute anecdote from a trans guy who would meow back and forth with his cat, and his cat lowered the pitch of their meow to match the guy's new voice and the guy thought it was really cute

Apparently this anecdote was transmisogynistic? Not sure how and I can't check because unfortunately I was much younger and had accidentally fallen into a tirf group whilst trying to avoid NB-phobic and aphobic trans people, so I deleted the reblog

Wild. One of the ones I’ve seen lately is that transmascs making jokes about how their parents misgender them no matter how far into their transition they are is transmisogynistic. As in “mothers will tell you about their beautiful daughter but then he looks like this <insert picture of House M.D. or something>” jokes. Because apparently it implies that people with those traits should Always be gendered as men (it doesn’t). But apparently it’s fine when transfems do it like in this beloved post:

I think some transfems get dysphoric whenever they’re reminded that people perceive certain traits they may have as masculine. So transmascs celebrating things like deep voices and facial hair as masculine makes them uncomfortable, and they have to come up with a reason why it’s wrong. That’s not just a transfem issue, transmascs can get dysphoric about others celebrating feminine traits too, but you can see it a lot in the way transmascs can’t talk about enjoying masculinity without being called toxic or transmisogynistic, while enjoying femininity is considered just good feminism. No traits are inherently masculine or feminine, but their perceived masculinity or femininity can be extremely important to trans people, and it isn’t transphobic to experience gender euphoria.

[plaidos]

when TME people dismiss transmisogyny theory & transfeminism as “petty infighting in the trans community” they are framing it this way because our points are true! if they disagreed with our analysis of data (that transfems are more likely to be homeless, less likely to get job opportunities, paid less, experience greater levels of violence than transmascs, experience greater housing insecurity etc) then they would say as much, or seek data to prove the reverse is actually true — but they don’t do that, they dismiss the relative privilege gap within the trans community & transmisogynistic discrimination as auxiliary to the “main problem” which is trans people being treated as different to cis people.

so the argument being made here is “we can care about misogynistic attitudes in the trans community when transmascs have full access to male privilege” which i think is pretty obviously bunk, antifeminist, transmisogynistic nonsense when you consider it for a second; this is a desire for the relationship between transmascs and transfems to mirror the relationship between cis men and cis women in society (ignoring the fact that this is already the unbalanced relationship between our two groups).

“that’s just petty infighting” is basically a way of saying “i know the data says that trans women are treated worse, but i don’t care, you have to deal with that, and if you complain, you’re the one tearing the trans community apart, not me”.

[thefantastickatinator]

Dropout should hire more trans women.

That said, a couple things about the data set floating around showing disproportionality in casting:

1. 7 of the top 9 (those cast members who appear in over 100 episodes, everyone else has under 70 appearances) are members of the core dimension 20 cast, aka “the intrepid heroes”. This cast has been in 7 of the 22 seasons, with those seasons usually being 20-ish episodes long (the other seasons are between 4-10 episodes long typically). That’s approximately 140 episodes for each of the main intrepid heroes cast members just for these seasons (not including bonus content like live shows). Brian Murphy has appeared 154 times, which means almost all of his appearances were on D20 intrepid heroes campaigns.

2. The other 2 in the top 9 are Sam Reich and Mike Trapp, who are both hosts of long running shows (Game Changer and Um, Actually)

3. 198 of the 317 episodes that noncis “TME” people have appeared in can be attributed to ally Beardsley alone (there is some crossover where for example alex and ally have both appeared in the same episodes). Erika ishii has been in 67 of the 317 noncis “TME” episode appearances i don’t know how much crossover there is between them but i don’t think they’ve been on d20 together so i doubt it’s more than 20. It could be as many as 250 of the 317 episodes that have either erica or ally. Both Erika and ally are majorly skewing the results for the data

4. Over 3/4 of people have no listed gender identity in the spreadsheet - most of them have 1-2 appearances, but a few have 3-4 appearances. I’m pretty sure these people aren’t included in the data at all (some of them i’m p sure are not cis like jiavani and bob the drag queen)

5. The data collector has assigned “tme” and “tma” to various cast members.

TME: transmisogyny exempt

TMA: transmisogyny affected

Now, tranmisogyny can affect trans women, trans femmes, and nonbinary people, and occasionally masculine appearing cis women.

I personally do not believe that an outside person can assign you a label deciding whether or not you experience certain types of oppression- and yet that is what the data collector has done.

I think a more accurate label would be amab/afab, or more honestly- “people i think are amab or have said they are amab and then everyone else”

6. The data does not include many of their newer shows such as Very Important People, Gastronauts, Play it By Ear, and Monet’s Slumber Party, all of which feature trans people (MSP, Gastronauts, and VIP are all hosted by noncis people)

What I think the data more accurately shows:

- Dimension 20 has a “main cast” who have appeared in the majority of episodes

- Dropout has some “regulars” who appear on the majority of their content/shows (sam has referenced multiple times that brennan is one of the first people he calls whenever someone can’t show up for something since he’s nearly always down for anything) - none of these people are trans women

Final thoughts:

I think eliminating “hosts” and the “intrepid heroes” from THIS TYPE of data set would be more appropriate because they massively skew the data when crunching the numbers for dropout shows. Especially since I can tell from the excel sheet that there are shows missing. Examining d20 sidequests and the guests on the other shows will give a more accurate representation of casting. Hosts should be analyzed separately as that’s a different casting process.

Also imagine if we referred to men and women as “misogyny exempt” and “misogyny affected” when doing demographics. Or if someone did a data collection of the number of POC appearances in dropout episodes and sorted it by “racism affected” and “racism exempt” - so weiiiiird

TLDR: the data set has massive issues with its methodology and that should be considered. That doesn’t make what trans women are saying less valid.

In other words: spiders brennan is an outlier and should not have been counted