#I think the last gifset I posted was the one comparing him TO John in relation to Mary and how he and/or Mary feel about him

[johnnyutah]

average adam faulkner stanheight fan: if adam isn’t in saw xi we riot! @lionsgate @kevingruetert @jameswan #adamlives #justiceforadam #corpseinconsistencies

average john kramer fan: What people don’t realize about John, is he’s such a genius that even when he makes mistakes, he planned on making the mistakes. He is the greatest villain of all time

average jill tuck fan: Appreciation post for the Women of Saw 🩷 [the same ten photos that get posted once a week]

average lawrence gordon fan: last night i watched a 2004 tv movie about serial killers called ‘the riverman’, followed by the cheesy family rom-com ‘a castle for christmas’. today my friends and i are going to binge the entire third season of netflix’s ‘stranger things’. none of us have seen a single episode of the rest of the show and we don’t plan on it. then we might rewatch ‘another country’ together

average amanda young fan: sorry i haven’t been online in 4 weeks i’ve been too busy trying to get the new pig cosmetic in the rift [posted 7 weeks ago]

average mark hoffman fan: [underneath a gifset of costas mandylor in a republican christian propaganda ‘sci-fi’ movie] #hes so fucking hot #i would give anything to put him in a sports bra and make him do jumping jacks in front pf me i would literally do #ANYTHING #i need to make him into a marionett and fist him lol

average daniel rigg fan: Here’s a quick low effort doodle I did of Daniel! I just love him so much ❤️ [a literal masterpiece, the best art you’ve ever seen in your entire life] [3 notes]

average allison kerry fan: i am hardcore attached to ONE ship which is probably either allison/amanda or allison/lindsey and my whole blog is devoted to them. there are dozens of us DOZENS

average lynn denlon fan: okay so i know bahar is a realtor now but in her last instagram post where she’s congratulating her son on some new achievement, both the first and last words in the post have 11 letters, AND there’s an X and an I visible in the background of her post 👀?? is this a reach???

average jeff denlon fan: No seriously let me finish seriously when you compare him to the other shitty men in Saw he’s NOT that b

average david tapp fan: i’m 39k away from publishing my 40k tappsing Everybody Lives AU <3 this is going to be epic [account has been deactivated for an indeterminate amount of time]

average brit stevenson and mallick scott fan: Hey I stayed up making this instead of writing my thesis paper for grad school. Here’s a 30,000 word document about the implications of Brit’s promotion within the Marshford group and how it would lead to her eventual demise and also how she rose to the top in her group. It also delves into her relationship with Mallick, whose existence, I believe, is an obvious literary reference to an ancient Roman play read by only me and three other people currently alive. I translated relevant passages and included them in my work. I got understimulated around page 8 so I did take a break to pierce myself in the same spot that I believe Mallick would have a piercing. If you read my fics on AO3 you will already be familiar with the location.

average peter strahm fan: haha peter does CRACK cocoaine haha i think he sniffeds some drugs! why else would he be so MANIC HYPER CRAZY!!! i love my crazy JUNKIE man LOL get him some andderall STAT!! if hoffman didn’t kill him the SPEED certianly would of! LOL!

average lindsey perez fan: i love lindsey perez i’m such a big fan of the character lindsey perez

average matt gibson fan: i literally would eat garbage out of a dumpster

average ezekiel banks fan: holy shit i just finished spiral what a good movie what the hell!!! what a cool addition to the saw universe! i bet everybody else loves this as much as i do! let me take a big drink of water as i check tumblr dot com to see all the nice things people will have to say about darren lynn bousman’s Spiral

average william schenk fan: my hobbies include: being a fujoshi,

average cecelia pederson fan: [pic of cecelia yanking on the metal loop around her neck and smirking] https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT3f5IIzt5PG-M7G9_Z-gjY4gZaiUneTdMlYrFAcdBGcJo0-N-RDQcj2JfxOaBTxKa6J_DiDQNgqVpg/pub

average logan jigsaw fan: What people don’t realize about John, is he’s such a genius that even when he makes mistakes, he planned on making the mistakes. He is the greatest villain of all time

[elizabethrobertajones]

1x02 - Dean vs Roy

Everyone gifs the bit in 1x01 where he gets thrown over the hood of the car as the definitive start point to prove Dean's always kinda been like this since the start... I still get very amused by this instance...

DEAN Roy, you said you did a little hunting.

ROY Yeah, more than a little.

DEAN Uh-huh. What kind of furry critters do you hunt?

ROY Mostly buck, sometimes bear.

DEAN passes ROY.

DEAN Tell me, uh, Bambi or Yogi ever hunt you back?

ROY grabs DEAN. SAM looks on.

DEAN Whatcha doing, Roy?

I'm gonna quote me from 2 years ago because nothing really substantially changes about this moment except that I always wanted a gifset of it and had no idea the power to make it was in my hands the entire time...

Pfft Dean. Dean Dean Dean. We are two episodes in and you are making things weird and uncomfortable.

Yes, let’s posture about hunting monsters and make fun of the guy for only hunting deer and bears (to be honest Roy seemed to be paying zero attention to Dean’s attempts to assert himself as alpha male hunter of the group), and then when he grabs Dean to stop him standing in the bear trap, he gets really up in his face instead of actually looking around to assess the danger. Nope, you are way too in deep in whatever game you (and only you) were playing there… I mean, I don’t even think this is like sexual tension or whatever, except that Dean had a weird reaction to Roy from the start because of him being a competent woodsman, and Dean is… not. And then he sort of assumes because he’s been angling for a fight that this is Roy snapping and asserting dominance over him, so the feathers go up and Dean’s like I’m just going to stare you down with all this weird one-sided chemistry between us boiling over. And Roy is totally oblivious because he’s the bigger guy.

Dean is basically a small yapping puppy at this point in the show.

I suppose you could fill in some more blanks about missing father figures and how Dean's both going into the woods to search for John (but also knows before they even get there that he won't be there and it's going to be another job) and reacting to Roy this way because as a competent hunter (in his own field, which pisses Dean off because he knows that's nothing compared to hunting the actual, dangerous monsters, which makes him a hero and Roy a dude who shoots Bambi on his weekends...) Roy is kind of the John mirror in the party in a way. A bad one, to Dean.

Of course Dean's reaction is immediately to try and usurp his place - because Dean has now taken on the burden of being the hunter John never really was, the one who puts "saving people, hunting things" as his top priority, talking Sam out of going on the same revenge mission that he's lost John to already...

... But in that way where Dean does this sort of thing, of course there's a ridiculous amount of  momentary tension (pretty much all radiating from Dean's side of things) towards this guy where you can't tell if he wants to kill him or fuck him.

[thegeminisage]

wAit i actually do want ur thoughts on how much u think michael was talking total shit i nthat bar

(here’s the post for context)

well firstly i think it’s an interesting juxtaposition between lucifer, the “bad son” who ostensibly doesn’t lie but merely tells uncomfortable truths*, and michael, the “good son” who not only lies all the fucking time, but knows the exact worst possible thing to say to anyone at any given time. I JUST THINK THAT’S NEAT. 

(*lucifer lies a lot in late seasons too because of antag decay, but like, the original concept of him was one of uncomfortable honesty.)

michael is willing to lie to get his way and does so frequently - starting with going back on the deal he made with dean, to leave him after they killed lucifer. he also does it when he shit-talks every last one of our protagonists in turn in 14.10, the episode the gifs are from. he starts with jack - telling him he’s nothing but a job, and dean wasn’t sad when he died, when we know that isn’t true (jack is visibly upset by this, which is part of why he chooses to use his powers later; michael successfully manipulated his enemy into doing harm to himself). after that michael goes in on cas, telling him that god doesn’t care about his world because it’s nothing but a failed draft (interestingly, cas is also visibly shaken by this).

then, before sam and cas enter dean’s mind, michael says that he WANTS them to do that - because his body might be all chained up, but in there, they don’t stand a chance. this is also untrue, because the whole purpose of him talking shit in that gifset to begin with is to stall so his monsters can rescue him. dean DOUBLES DOG DARES HIM to snap his fingers and nuke them all, and he doesn’t because he can’t. he didn’t want them in dean’s mind at all. he’s in trouble the whole time they’re in there and he KNOWS it.

as for what he said to sam, dean, and cas - yeah, this was also deeply untrue. the first thing he does is take a shot at cas; he claims that dean doesn’t care about cas, only feels obligated to help him out because of cas pulling him out of hell, and that cas, known fuck-up, is almost not worth the trouble. of course, WE know that isn’t true, and DEAN knows that isn’t true, and, being that cas was just looking through dean’s worst memories a few moments ago, and likely saw his own death there, HE probably knows it isn’t true too. (look at his face there compared to sam’s; he’s quite unbothered by the accusations, but shortly after looks away as though remembering something. the sheer magnitude of the lies michael is telling is what leads cas to figuring out in a moment that what michael is actually doing is stalling.) 

michael takes a swing at sam next, and this punch seems to hit the mark a little better - michael claims that dean was happiest when sam wasn’t around so it could be just him and john, alone together, just the two of them. it’s not in this gifset, but he also says “deep down, [dean] knows that you will always abandon him, again and again,” and sam shakes his head furiously. 

of course with what he went through at lucifer’s hands, sam has every reason in the world to be afraid of archangels, but i like to think he’s thinking about running away in flagstaff - i imagine the older sam got, the more he began to understand about the differing ways he & dean were abused by john. michael is striking at sam’s guilt for leaving dean alone to go to school, because he knows EXACTLY what dean’s life with john alone was like (more on that in a sec), but he’s also unknowingly striking at that flagstaff guilt. knowing something in your head and believing it in your heart are two entirely different matters - but i think logically sam is emotionally intelligent enough to know, most of the time, that the person at fault for dean’s abuse is his abuser. at the very least, he can be certain that dean was NOT happy when left alone with his father - dean’s neediness has been brought up in this series almost more times than i can count.

but both michael’s attack on cas and his attack on sam are ALSO attacks on dean, because dean will worry that sam and cas WILL think it’s all true - which is why michael says it. sam and cas are there as dean’s support system because dean isn’t strong enough to fight michael on his own. michael is SMART and the smartest thing to do is to drive a wedge between dean and his rescuers as quickly as possible. 

dean’s face here is absolutely INCREDULOUS. not only is this evidence that everything michael is saying is wildly untrue, but that he knows exactly how untrue it is - after all, he’s in dean’s head. michael’s goal isn’t to expose an ugly truth, it’s to strike at insecurities and weak points with untruths. the very next thing he says to dean is “you don't need them. you don't even like them. they're not your family, they're your responsibilities. they're a weight around your neck, & deep down, you were desperate to get away from them - that's why you said yes.”

dean goes from incredulous to disgusted in a big hurry once michael starts implying that dean believes sam’s going to abandon him again, and he gets out-and-out angry once michael actually does hit on the smallest kernal of truth - that dean sometimes felt burdened by the responsibilities of caring for his family. i think dean only getting truly angry THERE is indicative of how much bullshit the rest of it was. 

...including (told you we’d get back to this) the fact that dean was happy to be left alone with john. as we can see from his face - his “michael-is-lying” face - dean was NOT AT ALL HAPPY that it was just the two of them. consider:

john is a control freak - he expects instant and unquestioning obedience from his sons at all times. dean explains to sam later (and john himself confirms this near the season finale) that john equates control to protection. "dad was never disappointed in you...he was afraid of what could've happened to you if he wasn't around." "when you said that you wanted to go away to school, all i could think about, my only thought was, that you were gonna be alone, vulnerable." john, in his insane quest for vengeance and in his constant paranoia, wanted to control every possible aspect of sam and dean’s lives.

when sam leaves he’s not under john’s control. when sam and dean withhold information from him (that sam has been having visions) they aren’t under his control. when they talk back or disobey orders (when a young dean leaves the motel room to go to the arcade instead of watching sammy, when sam won’t accept his hunt midseason, when sam refuses to shoot him in order to kill yellow eyes) they are not under his control. even when dean doesn’t take care of the car as he was asked to, he’s not under john’s control. he’s slacking. 

and EVERY time this happens john gets angry. he demands to know why didn’t didn’t call about the dreams. he snaps at him about the car. when john came home from flagstaff and found sam missing, he was furious. we don’t know exactly what happened but we can tell it was not good. how much worse would it have been when sam went away for good instead of just two weeks?

i don’t think john’s reaction was as rash as the one in flagstaff - because he knew sam wasn’t dead, and sam’s college dreams weren’t dean’s fault, he didn’t wind up beating dean for it - but i do think it was longer-lasting and in many ways worse to deal with. he basically threw a 4-year temper tantrum that he couldn’t MAKE sam stay. and with one son missing there was just one left to take it out on. again, dean’s abuse is the fault of his abuser, NOT SAM, but no: dean probably did not have a good time while sam was gone.

what’s absolutely twisted about this is that the feeling seems to have been mutual - sometime in those four years, john started letting dean go on hunts by himself. this is explained away in the now-iconic “i’m 26 dude” line but john is such a control freak that it seems unlikely it was a matter of finding dean old enough to have earned his independence. dean could have turned 40 and if john was still alive and hunting yellow eyes he’d still expect dean to go right where he put him. i have a different theory:

dean says in season 14 that john used to send him away from sam when he was angry, so dean associates being split up from them with failure and punishment. it’s very likely that not only was dean NOT happiest when it was just him and john, he was actually SO unhappy that john simply didn’t want to be around him anymore.

hence the incredulous face.

[spn masterpost]

[andhereisthetea]

Just finished Season 3

I have been watching She-Ra for the past seven days non-spot and I just finished season 3 and...

god

dammit

I am just....

UGH.

I want to talk about a lot of things after this, but I know I can’t just sandwich them in this post. I watched all three seasons in less time than I should have, I feel so damn conflicted right now about certain things, even if I spoiled myself about it before.

I spoiled myself about the whole Entrapta and Hordak arc, I watched gifsets and I saw your beautiful fan arts both in tumblr and twitter, but watching it, like... really watching it, it’s a whole different thing and now I feel both sad but also relieved I’m watching this after the show ended because 1) I am sad I didn’t experience things at the same time the fandom and most Entrapdak shippers did BUT 2) this would have made a mess of me, I get affected very easily with things like what I watched.

Ok, I have some things to say about the three seasons:

First... Entrapta.

There are some things I find refreshing and others that I don’t, I am not going to point it out in this post, also I can’t expect a lot from a family show.

The thing is... I feel they should have made up a backstory for Entrapta.

I understand the lore and the plot Crew-Ra focused into, but also I knew the Lore before the creation of this show, I feel there should have been a better way to explore more characters from Masters of the Universe.

Think about the complete mystery she is.

We knows most of the characters’ backstories, at least the most complex and important ones, we knows for example that Mermisa got her ruined kingdom from her father who was killed in the first battle against the Horde. We knows basically all the story of Bow’s family, we knows about Glimmer, about Scorpia, about Perfuma’s kingdom, about even Adora, Catra who was an orphaned, and also about Shadow Weaver.

But Entrapta? she is a complete damn mystery.

She is the Princess of Dryl, she designed the Crypto Castle, a literal labyrinth without sense, she is obsessed with First One’s tech since who knows how long, she isn’t an elemental princess but she can move her hair as if it were extra limbs and evn fight with it as a weapon, something that no other specie in the whole planet of Etheria can do, she has an intelligence even bigger than Tony Stark, nobody even talks about what happened to her parents, NOBODY, like they didn’t even existed and she popped up from nowhere and created her robotic parents herself. And even if her seeking for data and more and more progress and tech can be seen as a clear symptom her Autism (like autistic people focusing so much in something they can’t do anything else, I have that) or the fact she is looking for something else but not even her know what the hell is...

She knows or is implicit that she knows about the language of the First Ones, she understand their technology better than anyone else, also, her kingdom is the most advanced, they are considered to be in the industrial era compared to other kingdoms controlled by the elemental princesses. Where did all that technology knowledge, and also First One’s knowledge, came from? I don't think that in 20 years since she had reason and enough skill to be able to learn by herself Dryl has built all that; Dryl's kingdom had been working that way since before she was even born, so who told her? who taught her?

In addition to the fact that she has access to mining in her kingdom where she has been able to find who knows how much of the first one’s technology... right under her feet. The sole fact they put someone so important for the plot as a princess who has no runestone is just mysterious, she used the Black Garnet even better than Shadow Weaver, I can completely see her or someone before her doing the same with her own Runestone (which I picture as an Amethist btw).

I think they chose to put Entrapta’s possibilities of a backstory aside because, after seeing how the character became increasingly important and popular, they realized that once they had started to create her backstory and origins, they wouldn’t have been able to stop, and the central plot wasn’t about her at all, and is very likely that whatever idea of backstory they had about her would have been focused in the central plot. 

For example (and call me crazy, I don't care) if they had said that she was the granddaughter or daughter of Keldor AKA Skeletor, I would have totally believed it.

The thing with that is... even though they chose for her an Etheria region, which in the original Lore was unimportant, everything to do with Entrapta in She-Ra becomes important immediately, but ultimately it would have distracted them from the central plot with Adora as She-Ra, and Horde Prime, who is the main villain they choose for the show.

For now I just want to imagine what could have been if she had more protagonism and wasn’t only the geek princess, she has so much potential and I haven’t seen a character so refreshing like her in long time.

Okay, I want to talk about the seasons I just watched while the information is still fresh inside my head.

One of the main things that frustrated me about the final season is how Crew-Ra COMPLETELY NAILED IT in making me hate Catra. They didn’t make her sympathetic, she is toxic and most of the time she remembered me people who I had to avoid in my personal life, so the natural reaction to all her actions is to dislike her, that is exactly what Crew-Ra wanted for us to feel.

But in some point it got to the point that if you tell me the character was unpredictable, it lost it a bit in the final episodes, she started to become predictable in her actions because as an impulsive person constantly in denial over her emotions and projecting her problems over everyone else, it was obvious she was going to go through a destructive path wanting for everyone to die together with herself because it wouldn’t have seen less like a suicide.

And as a self-centered character with tunnel vision over her purpose and actions, she was going to completely underestimate Entrapta and wasn’t going to understand why Hordak found her interesting, she would attribute everything to power and fight for positions just like SW taught her, instead of something as pure as friendship, in fact she might have know it, but she didn’t want to admit it, because to know that someone as hateful and intimidating as Lord Hordak suddenly has someone who loves him beyond that is just too much for her, who doesn’t understand and is hurt by the fact that Adora doesn’t love her back, but doesn’t want to change one bit for fear to lost the life that ironically she hates so much without Adora in it.

So of course she was gonna electrocute Entrapta and send her to Beast Island, and her impulsive decision was made out of pure fear over what she did not only to Entrapta, but to Hordak himself and what he might do to her when he finds out what she did, and no matter how much she wants to hide behind a curtain of falsehood, is a matter of time he realizes Entrapta is nowhere in Etheria to be seen.

She is a character who does not measure her actions until the consequences are so horrible that she runs away, because reality is too painful for her to even accept what she has done, also she usually thinks that EVERYONE thinks just like her, every one of her speeches about fake friendship, power and winning is just about how she sees the world work from her perspective, she has zero notions over someone’s else vision of the world.

That's one of the biggest reasons why I liked Adora in the last episode of the third season; Catra made a decision, her desire to win basically led her to condemn Entrapta to death, almost destroy the planet and ultimately kill Angella or worse. I have seen posts about people saying that Catra hasn’t killed anyone directly, but I am sorry, she did this season, and she lied about it to everyone and to herself, but Adora knows better.

Now, Hordak

God how I start with this.

Hordak, opposite to the original Lore of Masters of the Universe, is right now basically an alien version of Lucifer from John Milton’s Paradise Lost but with God being fucking evil.

Just like Lucifer, he wants to replicate his creator’s creation on Etheria, choosing to rule in hell rather than heaven, but unlike Lucifer, he stills has a connection with his creator and just like Catra, wants to satify his wished to conquer Etheria all by himself.

But unlike Horde Prime, he is in fact a good leader, and a logical one. He appreciates when his soldiers thinks by themselves and achieves their goals, unlike Prime, and he in fact doesn’t accept empty adulation, if you are good at something, you have to prove it, not to him, but to yourself.

So I just love how with every season they are adding more complexity to his whole being, and now they have added the emotional factor with Entrapta’s friendship and ultimately “betrayal”, I want to watch how this at first glance stoic character loses the shit out of his stoicism, even if I already knows what is going to happen. The fact he already got affected by Catra’s lies over Entrapta betraying him proves how far he has gone since Entrapta came to his life, if he was just impressed by Entrapta or wanted to use her, that wouldn’t have affected him that much, he already feels something for her, but he struggles to know what it is, and even if he denies it due to what just happened, he is still feeling it.

Which makes the anticipation to the discovery of Catra’s lies so much more painful. 

Also, the fact he believed Catra, just like that, made me feel disappointed, but that is based on the complexity of the character and his self-loathing, he feels he doesn’t deserves friendship nor love; he is a defective clone after all, in his own mind he is imperfect and she is the complete opposite of that, so believing it is easy, but that doesn’t make it less painful, and that is what I am sure Hordak will realize ultimately.

I don’t know how long will took me to watch the season 4, but I know is worth the effort if I want to see Entrapta and Hordak together again, I love them, they are pure brain and incredible refreshing to watch, and the affection they feel for each other is obvious, one of the most bittersweet scenes for me was when Entrapta remembered Hordak due to the trio saying his name, her suddenly quiet behavior and calmed and painful smiled was so unlikely of her that one has to admit something more is going on, also her choice of language, “I had a lab partner”, not “I have”, gives a sense of sadness to the whole scene that broke my damn heart.

I will tag you guys @cruelfeline @ineffablelabpartners @etherian-affairs because I want to know your opinions about this, I never thought Entrapdak was gonna affect me that way, in fact I never expected to ship them at all, but here we are, dying for them and I just can’t escape.

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

let-me-be-your-home replied to your post “Dean is John” John: Maybe Sam can be saved. But if it comes to the...”

You can't go comparing Dean and John here. Dean stood by Sam all through the time Sam was scared of his powers and even when Dean was scared of those powers he never showed his back to his brother. But Jack is not his brother and isn't his child yet even though this track is being shown as parenting. Jack is a nephalim they have known less than a week. So don't go demonising him for having a cautious approach

He can see Jack has powers that even he can't control. And powers that could again harm the entire world. Last I knew it was their job to save people. So if Sam here is willing to trust the kid blindly, Dean being cautious and pragmatic doesn't make him abusive. It makes him normal enough to be vary of someone he doesn't know

Yep, exactly! Dean hasn’t seen all of ours ‘like father like son’ gifsets and does not, in fact, have any parental obligation towards the child of a near stranger and one of the biggest abusers of his family, whose only link to him is a weird supernatural connection, that Dean couldn’t fathom and that he was scared of, between the kid and his deceased companion.

He agrees to take Jack with them because, well, it’s too dangerous to leave him out there on his own (for his own sake and the sake of everyone else). He and Sam are the only ones out there who can try and deal with this potential end-of-the-world crisis, because someone has decided to go on a vacation and leave the protection of the entire planet on two human dudes. No wonder Dean’s pissed at God - this thing has the potential to destroy the world but God is *crickets*, despite the kid being born from God’s own mistake i.e. the corruption of Lucifer.

Dean feels saddled with yet another responsibility way too big for him. I don’t think he’s 100% certain that Jack will turn bad just because. I think that he thinks that the chances that setting Jack on the right path is too difficult, or impossible, for two broken humans who’s lost so much and can barely stay afloat on their own.

There are parallels between Dean and John. But we’re shown enormous differences from the very get-go.

[elizabethrobertajones]

I have not peeked into my dash AT ALL since the new episode, mostly just scrolled a few blogs to catch myself up on gifsets etc, but I wanna put down a few more thoughts from rewatching 13x01 and 2 today - which was hours ago so I'm not sure how much I have to say -

- in 13x01 *Sam* says that they "need" Jack - thinking of course about his portal opening abilities, and next episode is the one to start poking him about what else he can do, seeming really interested for the teleporting. He also has the conversation with Donsmodeus where he has already been researching what Jack can do and completely misses "Donatello"'s flip on Jack about moulding him because now Donssmodeus is talking his language about that, all of which vaguely worries me. I know there's a discourse about Dean the Bad Parent out there but only from 2nd hand chat that it exists so I just wanna weigh in. 13x02 hammers home that "needing" people is BAD (which I covered a little more in my notes about the episode about how "i need you" is now a bad phrase and hopefully that loops back around to where it became such a hot subject in the first place and Dean says something more about wanting or loving Cas than needing him when he's back, but Lucifer said it about Mary and Michael said it about Lucifer, and Sam said it about Jack. So. It's not all sunshine over there even when it's adorable and Sam is so supportive and I am loving every moment of him and Jack).

- Sam talks about how Kelly and Cas thought Jack was worth all the fuss, and "so do i", aligning himself with Jack's parents etc etc he's now morally responsible for Jack as a guiding figure. Dean had no such conversation and was not included in this conversation which was started BECAUSE Dean had said horrible things about Jack. I don't think at the moment Dean's on the level of "parenting" Jack, at least in the same way I don't think Mary in season 12 can possibly compare to John for their entire upbringing when having a bad parent conversation. You can condemn her treatment of them and complain about how she should have reached out more or not left or whatever (I mean I'm pretty supportive right up to "lying about working with the BMoL" and then switch to sympathetically understanding while agreeing it's a mistake but blah blah those power stories and that's how we learn and grow around here)... But yeah none of it can possibly scar them like their entire youth spent with John's version of parenting.

Granted literally all of Jack's issues pretty much stem from Dean, whether it's activating his memories of Lucifer reaching out to him and getting our first "I'm good" which means "I'm not good" which is SUCH a loaded statement about not just wellness but ethical morality levels (e.g. was that the first chink in Jack's goodness where he has warring influences on him now - though I still of course think his core is completely good/neutral) and of course saying all the stuff about Jack to make him think he's not worth it and then be so horrified and confused about his own life and abilities we get that last scene. Asmodeus barely managed to make a dent in Jack's self-worth except for teaching him trust and wariness, but even then a better pep talk about God and all would have avoided the problem entirely if the Winchesters were forthcoming with their issues with faith and religion and explained the shittiness of this world's Creation properly instead of being uncomfortable about explaining Lucifer and Chuck and the myriad issues they cause.

But yeah, I think Dean's fucked Jack up immensely but he's just not in a place to care or understand and he has not stated Jack is his responsibility in any other way than protecting other people from him, because he can't see him properly yet. Another thing I caught while thinking about the framing of this all and Jack from Dean's POV is that Jack looked enraged to see Dean at the police station when he was running from the angel radio, and to Dean it seems like *only* Sam taser-ing Jack avoided Jack attacking Dean again and he has no way to say whether Jack would have or not. We had already seen so much more of Jack's nice side by that point we can assume he was just scared and running and overloading, but Dean does not know that. He's also in no place for Sam's attempts at sensitivity training to work, but Sam has already attempted to call out the problem Dean has a few times, to no avail but at least he's putting the words out there, bridging the problem between them by making it clear they need to be on the same page, and trying to get Dean to cooperate.

(I haven't seen the discourse about this but I wonder if the haste we have to assign them all as family members to Jack while the show is taking a slow approach to having Dean own any responsibility for Jack while Sam has dived straight into being the Best Uncle Ever has made this more of a problem because it's hard to have Sam in one place with Jack and Dean in another and NOT see the connection to Sam and Cas automatically making him uncle or step father to Jack by proxy, while the earned family philosophy means Dean has not chosen any connection whatsoever to Jack except the one he already made clear, that he still sees Jack as a monster and a problem and even with deeper sympathy and understanding after spending time with him, he can't credit Jack his human side or trust him to control the angel side... the 10x09 mirror conversation between them (or 2x11 if he's seeing Jack as Sam and putting himself back in the season 2 mindset aka ranked one of his worst ever and proportionately THE worst) just goes to show his problems even more. He didn't trust himself back in season 10 and wanted Cas as a failsafe to throw him into the sun. He's probably looking up how to do that right now :P)

- but to get back to Asmodeus and Jack, the big fuck up the Winchesters made in preparing Jack for the world was not warning him that having any sort of destiny was a Bad Thing. Asmodeus made it up completely but it goes in line with Kelly believing there was a higher purpose for Jack and Cas's utter defeat about the idea saying it was all just random happenstance; though it was a circumstantial lie I find it interesting in the wider metaphorical picture in the same way Kelly praying to Sven for help in the open of 12x23 is circumstantial but fascinating in a wider picture :P Obviously there's a massive Destiel barrier to communication in the room specifically in the general area of Donatello talking about having a direct line to God or not, because on a better day Dean could have been regular old bitter about that and snarked enough of a warning for Jack to get the idea that no such thing exists and God doesn't care... And I hate that's the HAPPY day for them, but there you go, Dean was still so fucked up about that prayer not being answered a couple of days before that he does the thing I saw a gifset pointing out from Sam's same page speech about just shutting down completely when it comes to the subject of Cas and his death and Sam's hope and God not helping and all that in general.

...

I'm pretty sure I've mis-explained all of these thoughts horrifically so my inbox is always there for me to get back to this maybe on Monday or something... it's my birthday then and I love random meta asks from people confused about what I meant about something giving me a chance to write an even longer post. I'm genuinely excited to research up the table post I need to make about the final Bunker kitchen scene on me bday >.>