#I think it says a lot about eyrie to think they would prefer to be called a monster in some misplaced sense of kinship rather than

[impossible-rat-babies]

okay crown of the immaculate is so peak for eyrie like. how did their almost eating ranjit in eulmore Get Worse

[melrosing]

Sansa cannot “take” Winterfell as she is married to Tyrion and Robb passed over her in his will for that reason. It’s not that I think she won’t be a Lady of any kind. She may take up Lysa’s post. But thematically and technically she can’t be QITN.

i didn't actually say Sansa would be Queen in the North because i don't believe the north will be independent at the end of the series. i've said a fair few times that i believe the fisher king bran theory, which is about tying the land and its peoples together, and that i don't see any reason why the north would sit outside of that - particularly when the 7K will be ruled by a Stark.

however, i do see the God's Eye as Bran's seat, not Winterfell, so that does leave scope for Sansa to be Lady of Winterfell, which i think she probably will be. like Bran's out, Rickon doesn't really have a story substantial enough to occupy such a significant role by the end of the narrative, at least afaic, and Sansa comes first out of the remaining + may arrive back at Winterfell before anyone else does.

well, maybe Jon will pip her to the post?? and i think that Jon will indeed use the whole 'i fuckin died' loophole to leave the NW and potentially rule Winterfell for a time, but I do also believe that it's heavily foreshadowed he'll return north of (what was) the wall again at the end of the series. so Jon will take up his role as Robb's heir for a time, but not for long.

and I know Robb's will rules out Sansa as things stand, but I think it would be pretty bizarre if the story ends with the northern lords and ladies insisting upon that? like, Sansa was ruled out because she was forcibly married to a grown man. ending the question of who gets Winterfell with 'well it would be you next in succession Sansa but this piece of paper says NOT you because you were married off to Tyrion several books ago and sure that marriage likely no longer stands by this point and a hell of a lot has happened since but who cares the piece of paper says no so I guess that leaves....' like??? lmao

and whilst I agree that Sansa has been the most southern oriented of the siblings, I imagine her remaining chapters as an exploration of her return to her roots. that's already hinted at as she literally rebuilds Winterfell from snow in the courtyard at the Eyrie. as GRRM's notes say, she will end her arc in the Vale resolving to be Sansa Stark, and reclaim her home. the northern lords may lack focus and unity now they no longer have Arya - or rather, Jeyne - to rally around, and I think Sansa's return will end up being that new focus.

it probably will come with some scepticism given she was married off to a Lannister, but unless people really expect that Sansa will remain sidelined by the north to the end of her days whilst they celebrate her siblings as good and true northern children... i mean i think it's fair to say that what's more likely is that in the latter half of TWOW or maybe ADOS, we'll see Sansa slowly winning them over and reclaiming her Stark name.

either way as i say i think the northern lords and ladies will settle on Jon first, and the question of who gets Winterfell after he?? abdicates?? is going to be a peacetime decision. and again worth saying as we've been here before: whilst this is what I think will happen, i'm interested in differing opinions. however if you/anyone wants to discuss further i'd probably prefer via dm on this particular topic, because i've talked about it before and don't really want it to devolve into bad faith engagement again.

[a-libra-writes]

OH SPEAKING OF BOBBY B WOULD YOU EVER WRITE HCS FOR BEING LIKE HIS DAUGHTER/LIKE JOFF’S TWIN OR SMTH AND ROBERT ACTUALLY LIKING YOU

-🐚🌌

i miss my dad so i guess thats why im doing these specific requests LOL

So, imagine the first child between Cersei and Robert. The one that survived a sickly cradle, against all odds. The one with hair that was unmistakably black, not gold. The one Cersei couldn't stand the moment every time she laid eyes on her in the crib, because of all her negative and hurt feelings toward Robert. This is back when she was still a teenager, and her fantasies about the brave Baratheon that toppled the Mad King turned to smoke and mirrors.

Needless to say... over the years, she'd take out a lot of her frustration on this kid.

Robert likes that the child laughs and runs and smiles. He's far too indulgent, allowing her to sit on his knee during tourneys even if Cersei finds them too violent. He has extravagant gifts for her, anywhere from expensive dolls made of silk or a whole pony. He'd even take her on hunting expeditions - even if his Kingsguard protested - showing her how to use a bow and boarspear, even if she's far, far too young and small to handle such weapons.

When Joffrey is born, Robert struggles to bond with him the same way. Joff doesn't laugh easily like his daughter did, instead he cries and screams all the time. Cersei protectively keeps him away, claiming Robert distresses the boy. In truth, she prefers Joff right away, because he's a boy, and a son of Jaime besides ... ... and deep down, she's always been hurt how her daughter seems to prefer Robert.

The more the girl grows up to be like him, the more Robert prefers her. If she's outgoing and laughs easily, he'd much rather spend time with her than a fussy Joffrey. If she's active and healthy, he'll want to teach her how to ride. He'd allow lessons with swords and spears if she begged enough, though Cersei would absolutely forbid it.

As the child gets older, she'd begin to notice her father breaking promises. Sometimes he smells too much like drink, and he loses his temper and yells at her mother. Her mother yells at him, yells at her. She can't seem to get her mother's favor, no matter how nicely she dresses or speaks.

Her grandfather Tywin is cold, distant and scary, and she knows her father dislikes him, so she hates coming to Casterly Rock. Uncle Jaime is strangely distant too, but at least Uncle Tyrion is kind and plays with her. He gives her books and encourages her to read to Myrcella and Tommen, and look after them. Uncle Stannis is a bit strict, but once he showed her all the ships on the harbor, and she always remembered that. Uncle Renly was almost as funny as her father, and always smelled better.

To Cersei, Robert's favor to their first child is beyond irksome. He should be favoring his first son, his heir! He's a little indulgent with Myrcella, and doesn't think too much about Tommen. She'll begin to criticize and pick at her eldest daughter, trying to cut down on traits that are too much like her father.

She'll quickly think of marriage, not caring that her daughter hasn't even had her first moonblood yet, not remembering how panicked and angry she was at her own father's plans to marry her quickly. She doesn't want Ned's oldest marrying her daughter, as much as Robert wants that match. In her anger, she almost wants to punish her husband and oldest daughter for having the gall to be so similar. She wants a match that will upset them.

If the girl was more tomboyish and fond of fighting, she'd win the argument to learn swords. It would be a huge wedge between Cersei and Robert, one of their big fights, but she'd learn. And she'd be good at it. If she was more ladylike and interested in the court, she'd begin to find her father's mistakes and cover for them at too young of an age. Lord Arryn would try to shield her from it, but, well ...

No matter what, by the time she's thirteen or fourteen, her idyllic image of her heroic, strong father would begin to tarnish. She'd see the drinking, the whores, the expensive feasts, the explosive fights with her mother. She'd notice the cruel tendencies in Joffrey, and would try to shield Myrcella and Tommen from not just him, but the rumors surrounding their father. She'd want them to stay sweet and good. She tried with Joffrey, but he never liked her. He was clearly Cersei's favorite, while she was clearly Robert's, and that meant they were tools during their parent's arguments.

She'd have no end of handmaidens from various wealthy kingslander families, and the loyal Kingsguard that were fond of her, and whatever pets she desired. She might still feel lonely in the Red Keep, and escape to the vast gardens to hide from her parent's fighting over who she'll marry. The feasts and parties were fun, but sometimes too tiring, and it seemed every knight and lord's son wanted to fight in her honor or be the first to dance with her.

And she'd start to notice that Lord Arryn and Uncle Stannis were asking her odd questions, or observing her as she played with her youngest siblings. She didn't hear them muttering about her black hair or loud laugh.

She'd have a lot on her plate, and a lot of pressure to work under. When Jon Arryn died and her father announced they were going North, a place she'd never been, to meet a man she'd heard so many stories about but never met... Well, it was an exciting adventure and a distraction. She even got to take her youngest siblings, and her father would let her ride with him if the road was safe. He even bought her a new, fine horse for the long journey.

He always told her war stories, but when he talked about these, he finally seemed happy. His blue eyes twinkled as he talked about the mischief he got up to in the Eyrie with his best friend Ned, who was more brother than his own brothers. He'd tell her about Winterfell, and how she might be the Lady of it someday.

"It only seems right to join our houses," Her father was saying. He didn't bother wearing the crown on this ride, and he was dressed in comfort instead of style. "It's what I've always wanted, but... I'll make sure that son of his is deserving of my girl. You're the Princess of the Seven Kingdoms! We'll have to have a talk with this wolf-boy of Ned's. We'll see if he's up to your standards."

Robert laughed, and it was hard not to smile. He meant it, she knew. He really did want what was best, and he'd been delaying marrying her away to whoever asked. She had cautious optimism when it came to her father's promises, but for now... it was a beautiful day, and they were having a nice ride.

[esther-dot]

1 I tend to think those who will end up on a throne have looked at the world from a very high place, and these are Jon (top of the Wall)/Sansa (top of KL, Eyrie)/Bran (top of... everything, lol). The show ending was truly baffling, but it makes sense bookwise at least in part. Sansa will marry a king (in the text): king in the North, or king in the South? Imo Jon might become king of Westeros but then he'll pull a Cregan/Duncan/Aemon; or, king in the North. But "marry a king" means

part 3 didn’t make it through, anon, but thank you for these! I really love the way you think. I still haven’t formed any coherent thoughts on the endgame, but I’ll chat about it under the cut.

Well shoot. To me, that placement above everything always seemed more like god than king indicator (because I was focused on Bran as the counterpoint to Dany) but your take, that that vantage point is actually ruler foreshadowing is so interesting because while we all argue over Jon and Sansa and Arya’s ending, King Bran has been confirmed. So, looking at him, seeing what indicates his end, and then looking for echoes of it in other character’s chapters…that seems promising! I’ll definitely keep this in mind if/when I reread.

The parallels Martin creates and the playing with names seems to indicate what you suggest regarding Jon being offered the throne and choosing not to accept or abdicating. I think it was drifitng-snowflakes who mentioned that first in conjunction with a Duncan parallels (link), and a lot of us have commented on the parallels Jon has with various Aemons (@estherruth-jonsatrash mentioned some here, additional parallels with the dragonknight here, and a helpful anon and I talked about it meaning Jon rejects the crown here). I tend to think that Martin’s interest in writing the additional precanon stories is because they make the canon material weightier with the idea that the main series will have aspects of history repeating as well as the sense of history finally being corrected. So, your speculation, that Jon (a Targ) is the one who calls a great council the result of which is to remove the Targs (himself) from power and form some new method of rule, well, that would be very satisfying. And, there’s spec that Rhaegar intended to call the lords of Westeros together because he knew his father was unfit to be king, so Jon summoning them, well, it ties in there too. I’m not sure that Jon would actually be king at that point, but it seems very likely that he would have some backers but refuses to allow all those parallels to come to fruition.

As for Sansa’s fate, I’m actually partial to her becoming queen in her own right rather than by marriage. Also, to me, rejecting the kingship over Westeros has the most weight if Jon isn’t already a king. As in, maybe he refuses to honor Robb’s Will because he doesn’t want to disinherit Sansa, and maybe he doesn’t accept the crown either? It’s pretty commonly accepted that he’ll be KitN, and that may happen, but to me, so much is made of people wanting Sansa to hold the North/marrying her to get Winterfell, it seems that Jon can’t agree to take it from her and get the happy ending we want for him. I think if he goes along with Robb’s Will/accepts Winterfell and becomes KitN, exile or the Watch is his endgame. If he refuses, then I think he will get a happy ever after in Winterfell with Sansa LoW or queen. (I think she’ll be queen, but I know people differ on that.) And, since he has already refused to take it from her and he supported Alys, I think there is reason to believe he’d remain firm on this. Also, Sansa wants love, it is important for her as a character to be prioritized, vital that she knows she is loved for herself, not because of what a man can gain through a marriage with her, so her being safe and in a position of political power and then marrying Jon because she wants to would be the perfect way to end her story. I’m not saying that’s what we’ll get, that’s just my preference. There’s always been a lot of spec that Jon and Sansa marry to resolve the mess of Northern succession/Jon being revealed to be a Targaryen which obviously makes a lot of sense because so much has been done to build towards a real mess there.

I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on Bran because that’s something I’ve been wondering about a lot. Why would he accept becoming king? How is this meaningful to him? Regardless of having powers or not, I keep trying to think about how that would be written from his POV. In a lot of fiction, being a ruler is romanticized, but to me, imagining Bran and Sansa trying to pick up the pieces after the devastation to come, it just sounds like a huge burden. The idea that people who have suffered as a result of these wars will work to prevent future wars, that makes sense, and the idea that Bran who was taught justice by Ned (one of the more merciful men in the series) becomes a good and just king, that makes sense, but I just keep wondering how it would be written as an emotionally fulfilling ending for Bran/his fans? Maybe doing a read through of just his chapters would answer a lot of my questions.

Thank you for the message!

[jackoshadows]

what i don’t understand is sansa stans who insist that she learnt from the best (cersei ans littlefinger) and so she’ll be an amazing ruler and player. first of all, when did she learn about the game from cersei? she was a hostage in kings landing, she wasn’t sitting in on small council meetings or anything and cersei definitely wasn’t telling her about all the moves she was making. the only time cersei really gives her ‘advice’ is during blackwater when she says that ‘tears/sex is a woman’s weapon’. regardless, cersei isn’t someone you want to be taught from, she makes terrible decision after terrible decision in affc. (since we’re on this topic, dany is the younger and more beautiful queen who foils cersei).

as for littlefinger, he’s definitely not a leader or ruler. he subtly manipulates things here and there and gets away with a lot of it because he stays under the radar. he’s not someone who inspires devotion for sure. nothing about the vale arc in affc puts sansa in an actual leadership position.

I agree it's best that no one learns how to be a ruler from Cersei Lannister, considering how much she messes up in AFfC.

And yes, it’s my opinion that Sansa's arc is leading towards outwitting Littlefinger and understanding how to play the game rather than ruling. And with two books left to go, she still has a lot of learning to do and being able to process the information available to her, analyze it and connect the dots and use the data to her advantage.

I just finished my ADwD and TWoW sample chapter re-reads so a rather long essay under the cut.

Sansa did acknowledge early on that unlike Cersei, if she were to become queen, she would prioritize getting the people's love over their fear - like the Tyrells did. But unlike the majority opinion of fandom, I think that this points to Sansa giving more importance to PR than to actual ruling. That it was better to be a loved monarch than a feared one.

It’s funny that Sansa stans often point the finger at Dany as being narcissistic, entitled and arrogant, when the few comments that Sansa makes about being queen revolve around her.

“Go ahead, call me all the names you want,” Sansa said airily. “You won’t dare when I’m married to Joffrey. You’ll have to bow to me and call me Your Grace. ” - Sansa, AGoT

“ If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.”  - Sansa, ACoK

Compare her quotes to those of current leaders/rulers in the books:

A good lord protects his people, he reminded himself. - Bran, ACoK

“Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?“ - Daenerys, ASoS

“And I know that a king protects his people, or he is no king at all.” Davos, ASoS

I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne."  - Stannis, ASoS

“I am the shield that guards the realms of men. Those are the words. So tell me, my lord— what are these wildlings, if not men?”  - Jon Snow, ADwD

The other leaders in the quotes are putting the people first, prioritizing the people’s needs first no matter how much it affects the rulers themselves. Jon’s decision to let the Wildlings through the wall is necessary, but highly unpopular among his men. And ruling is more than just being beloved by the people -

"Allow me to give my lord one last piece of counsel,” the old man had said, “the same council that I one gave my brother when we parted for the last time. He was three-and-thirty when the Great Council chose him to mount the Iron Throne. A man grown with sons of his own, yet in some ways still a boy. Egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness we all loved. Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took the ship for the Wall. It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill boy and let the man be born.” The old man felt Jon’s face. “You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueler one, I fear. You will have little joy of your command, but I think you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.” - Jon Snow, ADwD

This is the hard part of ruling be it in the middle ages or now. It’s not enough to be a good man to be an effective ruler. It’s complicated and it’s hard.  How do I resolve this thing? Do I do the moral thing? But what about  the political consequences of the moral thing? Do I do the pragmatic, cynical thing and kind of screw the people who are screwed by it? I mean, it is HARD. - GRRM

In this context, Sansa’s quote about being queen comes off as naive, ignorant, fairy taleish, like the queens in her stories - where everyone loves the queens and that’s all that’s necessary to be one.

It’s easy for Sansa stans to nitpick and criticize each and every one of Dany’s decisions and then praise future best queen Sansa - who has done absolutely nothing as a leader and has instead thus far served as an uncritical narrator to events around her. We don’t know what kind of leader Sansa would be because she has never been put in those situations or even shown an aptitude for strategic thinking.

Let me use an example I came across while recently re-reading ADwD and TWoW sample chapters. TWoW spoilers - if you don’t want to be spoiled on TWoW, please read no further.

-------------------------------------------------------

In ADwD, Jon is confronted with food shortage if they let the Wildlings through the wall:

“If we had sufficient coin, we could buy food from the south and bring it in by ship,” the Lord Steward said. We could, thought Jon, if we had the gold, and someone willing to sell us food. Both of those were lacking. Our best hope may be the Eyrie. The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting. - Jon Snow, ADwD

I have already written extensively on Jon’s political know-how of the North and using it in his strategizing and planning of Stannis’ campaign. But here we see that his knowledge extends to the south, where, knowing that the Vale stayed neutral during the WOT5K and it’s geography of being fertile, he sees it as a possible source to buy food for the Wall.

Now let’s go to the Vale in book 6, TWoW, Alayne’s sample chapter. After being called a bastard by Harry the Heir, a hurt Sansa goes looking for Littlefinger and chances upon a scheme of price gouging:

Near the bottom, she heard Lord  Grafton’s booming voice, and followed.

“The  merchants are clamoring to buy and the lords are clamoring to sell,”  the Gulltowner was saying when she found them. Though not a tall man, Grafton was wide, with thick arms and shoulders.  His hair was a dirty blond mop.  “How am I to stop that, my lord?”

“Post guardsmen on the docks. If need be, seize the ships. How does not matter, so long as no food leaves the Vale”

“These prices, though,” protested fat Lord Belmore,” 

“These prices are more than fair. Wait. If need be, buy the food yourself and keep it stored. Winter is coming. Prices must go higher.”

“Perhaps,”  said Belmore, doubtfully. “Bronze Yohn will not wait, ” Grafton complained. “He need not ship through Gulltown, he has his own ports. Whilst we are hoarding our harvest, Royce and the other Lords Declarant will turn theirs into silver, you may be sure of that.”

“Let  us hope so,”  said Petyr. “When their granaries are empty, they will  need every scrap of that silver to buy sustenance from us. And now if  you will excuse me, my lord, it would seem my daughter has need of me.”

“Lady Alayne,” Lord Grafton said. “You look bright-eyed this morning.” ” You  are kind to say so, my lord. Father, I am sorry to disturb you, but I  thought you would want to know that the Waynwoods have arrived.”

We are now in book 6 territory, this would be the point where a future queen/leader Sansa reflects on what she just saw - Littlefinger is hoarding grain and letting Royce and others sell theirs so that he can later increase the prices for demand from a starving populace and have the rest of the Vale Lords be dependent on him and with winter coming, there is currently much demand for the grain.

This would be where, if GRRM is writing for the future leader of the North, Sansa would wonder what is happening in the North with respect to the food situation since she just heard that merchants are clamoring for grain and winter is coming. Or she would think on LF’s scheme - is it a good plan or a bad plan? Does she think that Yohn Royce is right to sell his grain? What is her view on hoarding all the food for price gouging while people possibly starve elsewhere? What does she think of starving the populace for profit? Does she approve? Or does she think it’s ethically wrong?

We get no answers to these questions to give us a hint of what kind of ruler future best queen Sansa will be. It’s a blank slate because while Sansa acts as a narrator here and describes one of LF’s little schemes, she herself as no opinion on it. Instead Sansa’s immediate concern when speaking to Littlefinger is that Harry the Heir called her a bastard in front of everyone. Meanwhile Dany in ADwD:

Skahaz had been named Warden of the River, with charge of all the ferries, dredges, and irrigation ditches along the Skahazadhan for fifty leagues, but the Shavepate had refused that ancient and honorable office, as Hizdahr called it, preferring to retire to the modest pyramid of Kandaq.

Mounted men were of more use in open fields and hills than in the narrow streets and alleys of the city. Beyond Meereen's walls of many-colored brick, Dany's rule was tenuous at best. Thousands of slaves still toiled on vast estates in the hills, growing wheat and olives, herding sheep and goats, and mining salt and copper. Meereen's storehouses held ample supplies of grain, oil, olives, dried fruit, and salted meat, but the stores were dwindling. So Dany had dispatched her tiny khalasar to subdue the hinterlands, under the command of her three bloodriders, whilst Brown Ben Plumm took his Second Sons south to guard against Yunkish incursions.

The most crucial task of all she had entrusted to Daario Naharis, glib-tongued Daario with his gold tooth and trident beard, smiling his wicked smile through purple whiskers. Beyond the eastern hills was a range of rounded sandstone mountains, the Khyzai Pass, and Lhazar. If Daario could convince the Lhazarene to reopen the overland trade routes, grains could be brought down the river or over the hills at need …

The sea provides all the salt that Qarth requires, but I would gladly take as many olives as you cared to sell me. Olive oil as well."

"I have none to offer. The slavers burned the trees." Olives had been grown along the shores of Slaver's Bay for centuries; but the Meereenese had put their ancient groves to the torch as Dany's host advanced on them, leaving her to cross a blackened wasteland. "We are replanting, but it takes seven years before an olive tree begins to bear, and thirty years before it can truly be called productive. What of copper?"

Sansa does not come anywhere close to Dany and Jon in terms of leadership and that she’s so often pushed as this future queen in fandom, including by bnfs and so called asoiaf experts, is baffling, frustrating and hilarious.

What, if any, attributes does Sansa have to even be a peacetime ruler? After the war means rebuilding from scratch, making deals, hard bargaining, strategizing, using political tools, rebuilding the economy for war torn lands, get in the food, grow the food - precisely the kind of thing Dany is doing in Meereen. Or Jon thinking of building green houses in the Gift to grow food.

But Sansa building a snow model of Winterfell means that she’s the best qualified peace time ruler? Reddit dudebros and so called tumblr feminists united in wanting female characters who wield soft power and uphold the patriarchy as future rulers.

Even when it comes to personal growth, while Sansa has come a long way from her AGoT days, she still has some catching up to do with her peers. After getting hold of LF, Sansa complains that Harry is a horrible person for calling her a bastard.

Come,” Petyr said, “walk with me.” He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. “And how was your first meeting with Harry the Heir?”

“He’s horrible.”

“The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You’ve seen enough of them.”

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”

Now, personally, this is the point where I would like some introspection from Sansa. Remember when Sansa called out Jon as a jealous bastard in front of her friends in AGoT and Arya defended him?

Sansa sighed as she stitched.  “Poor Jon,” she said.  “He gets jealous because he's a bastard.”

“He’s our brother,” Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room.

“Our half brother,” Sansa corrected, soft and precise. - Arya, AGoT

Considering the way Sansa ignored Joffrey’s attack on Arya, it’s a good bet that if Harry the Heir had called out Jon Snow as a bastard in front of everyone in AGoT, Sansa would not have an issue with it. Now that she is being insulted as one, she gets to experience the hurt that Jon felt everyday growing up in Winterfell as a real bastard.

But even here, she refuses to scrutinize the situation more than simply getting angry at being called a bastard. Sansa is often held up as this compassionate, kindest person, ‘beacon of hope for the future’, a queen who cares for the masses etc. But where is her questioning why the classist prejudice against bastards is in itself wrong?

She is angry that she is being called a bastard, she is not angry that bastards are treated as less than. She doesn’t question the societal prejudice against bastards, only angry that she has to pretend to be one and be insulted as one. She doesn’t spare a second reflecting on her bastard brother Jon Snow or question her low opinion of bastards:

Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon’s mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked Mother if perhaps there hadn’t been some mistake. - Sansa, AGoT

And that’s the difference I see between Sansa and characters like Dany, Arya, Jon, Brienne and even with Tyrion and Penny. While GRRM interrogates Westerosi society prejudices, feudalism, classism, sexism, slavery, ableism, bigotry, the effects of war on the small folk etc with these other characters, Sansa rarely reflects on these issues. That’s why it makes no sense when epithets like ‘embodiment of hope for the future’ is used to describe the character. Hope for whom? The small folk? The patriarchy? The feudal lords?

Sansa being nice to people like the stuttering Ser Wallace is held up as her being the kindest ever. But Jon is nice to Shireen, Arya is kind to Weasel, Jaime is kind to Tyrion. Why is kindness and compassion only highlighted for Sansa, like some unique feature of hers when many characters, even the villains, exhibit kindness?

This is Jon Snow in ADwD

“I see what you are, Snow. Half a wolf and half a wildling, baseborn get of a traitor and a whore. You would deliver a highborn maid to the bed of some stinking savage. Did you sample her yourself first?” He laughed. “If you mean to kill me, do it and be damned for a kinslayer. Stark and Karstark are one blood.”

“My name is Snow.”

“Bastard.”

“Guilty. Of that, at least.”  - Jon Snow, ADwD

This is Sansa Stark in TWoW:

Ser Harrold looked down at her coldly. “Why should it please me to be escorted anywhere by Littlefinger’s bastard?”  

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”  - Alayne, TWoW

Sansa in TWoW is as hurt by the bastard moniker as Jon Snow was in AGoT when addressed as such by Tyrion. She’s emotionally where Jon Snow was in AGoT, while Jon has matured enough to not care for such insults anymore. And this is book 6! I guess it makes sense considering Jon is 16 -17 and Sansa would be 13 - 14 years old, making her younger than him in AGoT. But this is why the whole ‘Jon should take Sansa’s advice to rule because she’s the smartest ever!’ trash the show pushed to hype up Sansa is complete nonsense.

I don’t know how many chapters GRRM will be devoting to Sansa in the Vale in TWoW, but there’s still a lot of growth and character development pending for book Sansa. As I have always said, Sansa has a lot of information but she rarely if ever introspects on what she has heard and seen. She knows that LF last had Jeyne Poole but at one point wonders where Jeyne Poole is... Just ask LF dammit! She knows that Lysa had Jon Arryn poisoned on LF’s say so and knows that SweetRobin is being dosed with dangerous levels of Sweetsleep and that LF is banking on his death and yet thinks that SweetRobin will be okay. She needs to start putting two and two together to come up with four and I suspect that in itself will take up the whole of TWoW.

So will Sansa become any kind of queen or ruler? No. If she survives the books, I can see her being Lady of the Vale and be moving the chess pieces around. I can see her gaining agency and maybe even be the real power in the Vale aka Littefinger. Just like Jon, Arya, Bran and Dany I think Sansa will be a darker character in TWoW. The game of thrones cannot be played honorably and she will need to get her hands dirty to outwit LF and take him down at his own game.

The point where Sansa simply stops narrating what she sees and actually starts analyzing what she sees in her POV chapters is when the student will become the master and I am excited to see that happening.

[sansacherie]

"Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf's leavings, but as he never touched you . . . How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?"

Just... I have a lot of sympathy for Lysa, and I can't even fully hold her accountable here to be honest.

But this moment is just so gross. She's basically saying that she's glad Sansa wasn't raped by Tyrion, just so her son can have a "pure" wife. Sansa's own feelings don't come into account. She reduces her nieces value to her body, and that if Tyrion and Sansa HAD consummated the marriage, Sansa wouldn't have any "value" anymore. She'd be ruined.

And again this is more tragic than anything, because I think Lysa is repeating a lot of the stuff Hoster told her. You can bet that Hoster probably said something similar along the lines - ie that Lysa should be grateful that Jon Arryn deigns to take another man's "leavings". But this gets overlooked, because Lysa is just purely a villain.

And another thing that could have been added to more complexity to Lysa as a character than someone who freaks out at her niece in the Eyrie over "stealing" Petyr, is her anger that while Sansa and her were both forcibly married to much older men, Sansa got to escape many of the traumas that Lysa did. We could have had that brought up but no let's make it all about Lysa's fixation on Petyr.

[just-eyris-things]

Eyris Interview

because I was tagged by the one and only @i-mybrunettelady, thank you .w.

OC Interview: Eyris

Draw (or use an old  drawing, don’t worry!) or take a screen of your character in an  interview setting and make them answer the following questions!

Me: it will be a quick sketch, just silhouettes or sth

Also me:

INTRODUCTION

1. Can you introduce yourself?

"Hi. I'm Eyris. That's about it."

2. What is your gender identity, orientation and relationship status?

"I identify myself as a bi woman. When it comes to relationship...let's say it's complicated. Since I am constantly away, it's difficult to establish a solid relationship, at least for me."

3. Where and when were you born?

"Ah, it was so many moons ago. I awakened in the Grove, because, you know, I'm a sylvari? We don't really do the whole...birthing... stuff you fleshlings do. As for when... as I said, many moons ago, in year 1310 After Exodus. Which makes me 24 this year. If it weren't for Airell, I'd feel old. Lucky for me, he's ancient."

4. What is your weapon of choice and fighting style?

"I prefer to take down my enemies unseen and quietly. I either get in close with my trusty daggers or take them down with a bow and an arrow. I can also pack a punch. I might not be as strong as my friend Airell or my, uh...girlfriend? Freya, but I know how to deliver a good blow."

5. Lastly, are you happy?

"Happiness is subjective, you know that, right? But I'd say yes. I think?"

FAMILY AND FRIENDS

1. What’s your family like? What is your relationship with them?

"I...have never really had a family. The closest people to me are Aurene, Airell and Ewyn...huh, I guess you could say I consider them family... There's also Freya, of course."

2. Have you ever ran away from home?

"Just like I have never really had a family, I have never had a home. There were places I lived in, but...I never saw more to them than but a bunch of walls and a roof over my head... Home is where the heart, or in my sylvari case, rhuddin, is."

3. Would you consider marriage or having children?

"Do I look insane to you? I am in a complicated relationship with a woman and you're asking me about marriage and offspring? Honestly, you interviewers are the worst! I am not a good partner and Freya knows this. I never stay too long in one place, that alone crosses me off the list for a suitable partner to have offspring with, don't you think?"

4. Do you secretly hate one of your friends?

"That question is stupid. How can you be friends with someone and then hate them behind their back? You either are friends or enemies. Unless you're a filthy lying snake, like Countess Anise. Yes, you can publish that one."

5. Which friend knows everything about you?

"By default, Aurene. We're connected deeper than anyone can even think. Her heart and my rhuddin beat as one, we share feelings, and I mean it literally, and we can communicate through thoughts. Although, we don't do that too often, only when we need to keep things away from the commanders and their euntourage... But Freya, Airell and Ewyn know a lot about me, too, considering that, as mentioned before, they are my found family. I would trust them with my life."

ASKED BY FANS

1. Are you literate? Have you been to school?

"I'm a sylvari, you dolts. Of course I am literate and no, I have never been to school, thank all that's divine!"

2. The eeriest prediction you made that later came true?

"Weeeeell...I honestly don't know? Since I have been working alone for ages, I learnt to be observant and wary of my surroundings, so it's hard to say if I am predicting things, or just deducing... and here comes Rytlock Brimstone. Despite being an important figure in charr society, he is a loose cannon. We were in Orr, making a stand near the entrance to Arah and I almost died because of him. I made a remark on that and said that he would be the death of me at some point. Years later, I was brutally murdered because of him. How am I back? That is a very good question, I will not address that, thank you."

3. What is something you were embarrassingly late to realize?

"Not to toot my own Warbler, but-- no, I did not mean a bird, I meant a horn used by the Maguuman Hylek. As I was saying, I don't think I have ever been embarrassingly late to realize anything? I mean, I'm not Airell, I actually use my eyes and ears, and, unlike him, I only have two of each."

4. Do you have mental health or physical issues?

"I was burnt alive. Does that answer your question?"

5. What is your current main goal?

"Unlike seemingly everyone, I do not have goals. I might be a Soundless, but I still follow some of Ventari's teachings, one of them being where life goes - so, too, should you. Currently, I am by Aurene's side, I choose to be by her, and I will follow her to the Mists and back. I think that's the closest to a goal I have.

CHOICES

1. Drink or food?

"Drink. Sometimes food is scarce, but you can survive without it as long as you have liquids with you... I really like strawberry tart, though. Ewyn and Airell make great tarts, I strongly recommend to visit their stall during some festival held around the Grove and Astorea."

2. Cats or dogs?

"I...In my whole life I have faced various difficult choices and decisions that I had to make, and yet, this one is the worst. So, I shall say both. Both is good."

3. Early bird or night owl?

I am a nightbloom. I am a night owl by default.

4. Optimist or pessimist?

"Realist. Optimistic and pessimistic outlooks affect judgement, and nobody can survive in bad conditions with bad judgement. Let's take the simple "half a glass of water" into consideration. Optimist will say that the flask is half full, but the word full makes you think that you have more than you actually have. You might make a bad call when rationizing your water, and then you end up with nothing before you find a water source. Pessimist will say the flask is half empty, so they will scarecely drink, and in the end they will dehydrate faster, which will affect their wellbeing and affect their efficiency, which also might affect how fast they will reach a water source. Realists will see that there is half a flask, so they will calculate how much they can drink to keep their mind clear and have the water for as long as needed... You there, interviewer? Or did I lose you?"

5. Sassy or sarcastic?

"Uh...as in, which one am I? or which one do I prefer in people? If the first one, I think I'm sarcastic? And the latter... Both? I think? Depends on the people, really. Some people are bearable, some are not, and depending on that their sassiness or sarcasm has any or no effect on me."

HAVE YOU EVER

1. Been caught sneaking out?

"Yes, in my earliest years. Nowadays I seem to simply disappear. Commander Stoneshire- I mean, commander deSol, I can't get used to the fact that she got married, that wretch of a woman... anyway, she hates me for sneaking out unnoticed. That....and for many other things, actually. She hates me in general. Hate is mutual."

2. Broke a bone?

More than once. Unfortunately.

3. Received flowers?

No, never. I don't really get any gifts, you know. And I do not count the flowers I got when I was working undercover for the Order of Whispers. They were not real gifts, not for me, but for the people I pretended to be.

4. Ghosted someone?

"Oh, yes. Some people do not take "I don't want to talk to you" for an answer. And if ghosting doesn't help, an arrow in the head solves the issue."

5. Pretended to laugh at a joke you didn’t get?

"Yes. Commander deSol's husband tells horrible jokes. Think dad jokes, but not the ones you like, those you hate and that make you want to strangle the person saying them... but even worse. I think the worst one was when he asked who lived in a pineapple under a tree, and when people asked who he said that pineapples don't grow on trees. Does that even make any sense? No. It does not. And that man is a father of two right now. I feel so bad for his children."

~

And now, oh boy, the tagging time!

Since I'm not browsing tumblr lately, if you were already tagged/have done this already, or simply if you don't feel like it, no pressure :)

@ascalonianpicnic @mystery-salad @fellis-world @moonlit-grove @kerra-and-company @salad-tales @likemesomesalads

If you're not here but wish you were - feel tagged, my tagging game is weak ;w;

[mystery-salad]

OC Interview: Matthias

Tagged by @just-eyris-things 💖 and I'm late to the party but here we are!

INTRODUCTION

1. Can you introduce yourself?

He offers a charming smile, "Matthias , Commander of the Pact."

2. What is your gender identity, orientation and relationship status?

"I'm a bisexual man, and very much a free bachelor still." He gives a wink

3. Where and when were you born?

"Right here in Divinity's Reach twenty five years ago. Wonderful city to grow up in, made a lot of connections that got me to where I am today."

4. What is your weapon of choice and fighting style?

"While the standard sword and shield are the usual for soldiers like me, I prefer dual swords. I'm not one to take a defensive stance when I can charge right in against danger. It's good to take charge on and off the field of battle."

5. Lastly, are you happy?

He lets out a soft, charming chuckle before answering. "If I wasn't happy I surely would've moved on to other job propositions by now, my parents surely would prefer I took a safer role after my time in the Seraph. But there's something fulfilling about being able to travel and help people in a way I couldn't if I'd remained here."

FAMILY AND FRIENDS

1. What’s your family like? What is your relationship with them?

"Oh they're wonderful, despite their status they love to keep a low profile though, so I'll avoid dragging this question out too long. We get along well and I try to write or visit when the opportunity arises."

2. Have you ever ran away from home?

"Never even had the thought to, there wasn't much to regret or bemoan of my childhood." He smiles fondly as he recalls, "There were night sneaking out with friends of course, boys will be boys, but I'd always come back by morning. Hopefully to parents none the wiser I'd even left, though I was not as stealthy as I'd thought."

3. Would you consider marriage or having children?

"While I'm in such a dangerous line of work I wouldn't dream of raising a family. I'd hate to be one of those absent fathers off to war. But perhaps, when retirement inevitably comes knocking and it's time to pass the torch on, I may settle down and find The One."

4. Do you secretly hate one of your friends?

"Of course not! I've had nothing but the most trustworthy and kind friends here. And while I know rumors spread that I and my co-Commander, Aildyn (@ascalonianpicnic), had a rocky start to our partnership, I can assure that the two of us work wonderfully together. Just a small cultural conventions bump was all."

5. Which friend knows everything about you?

"Oh, telling any friend everything leaves little to still keep each other on your toes does it? We all have our stories and dalliances we save for more private moments." His smile softens a little, as if fondly thinking of someone. "Nevertheless there is someone who knows the most about me, I'll keep her name secret to avoid any unwanted attention it may garner for her."

ASKED BY FANS

1. Are you literate? Have you been to school?

He feigns insult before offering a smile softening any potential misunderstanding on the action, "Me, illiterate? Id never hear the end of it from my family if I was, with how expensive the schooling I received was. And I highly doubt Logan would have put forth someone lacking in the ability to hold up the more tedious side of running an organization."

2. The eeriest prediction you made that later came true?

"I'm not one for predictions really, I prefer to live in the moment and enjoy what surprises may come."

3. What is something you were embarrassingly late to realize?

"Hmm, I like to pride myself on being observant, so this isn't a particularly easy one to recall. But as a child, it took me quite a few years to realize that not all 'bite sized food was actually bite sized. Had some hilarious moments at dinner parties my parents hosted, not that they'd agree with the results."

4. Do you have mental health or physical issues?

"I'm quite proud to say I'm in tip top shape, physically and mentally. The safety of the world is in very stable hands." He holds his hands out slightly for flourishing emphasis before settling back for the next question.

5. What is your current main goal?

"While we are between dragon threats at the moment, a wonderfully relaxing place to be, we do in fact have some behind the scenes research going on in a few various matters. I'm not at public liberty to talk about then yet, but rest assured when the Pact makes another move you'll be the first to know the scoop."

CHOICES

1. Drink or food?

"Drink of course, a nice drink with friends can happen anywhere at any time. And I'm quite the amicable socialite if I say so myself."

2. Cats or dogs?

"I enjoy both, though I prefer the independence of cats. They know what they want at all times, and I'm afraid I'm far too busy for the training a dog would require of me."

3. Early bird or night owl?

"I'm an early riser by nature, nothing like getting a solid mourning routine and breakfast in before starting the day!"

4. Optimist or pessimist?

"I fancy myself an optimist, this job would get oppressively depressing otherwise wouldn't it? You've got to be able to focus on the bright side as you look forward."

5. Sassy or sarcastic?

"I enjoy some sarcasm here and there, sass has little use in mature conversation aside from hindering the mood. Sarcasm meanwhile, can still let things roll forward with intent thrown in."

HAVE YOU EVER

1. Been caught sneaking out?

He laughs, "While I'd underestimate the count of how many times my parents caught me either sneaking out or back in after a fun night with friends, I'm sure they'd overestimate it. But yes, they've caught me at least once."

2. Broke a bone?

"I've broken an arm or leg here and there, sometimes you just slip up or fall the wrong way of course. Especially when your enemies would like to cause far worse harm. But thankfully we have access to wonderful healers, and I've never been down for long."

3. Received flowers?

The admirers of the Pact and the hard work we do are very kind, they certainly make their adoration and appreciation known. I've received more flowers than I'd have room for even if I filled my office with vases."

4. Ghosted someone?

"Of course not, I'd hate to leave someone hanging and wondering what happened. Anything I enter into, I intend to see through to however it ends."

5. Pretended to laugh at a joke you didn’t get?

"We all have moments of polite convention, and not every joke appeals to every sense of humor. I try to be discerning when necessary, but I've laughed at a fare number of jokes I simply didnt get."

He stands up, giving a polite bow to the interviewer. "Thank you for extending this invitation to me, it's always wonderful knowing how admirers feel and being able to share with the general public that we heroes are just like everyone else."

It's important to know that 99% of this interview is a bold faced lie

I think pretty much everyone's been tagged by now! At least those who want to do it! So I simply extend the invitation to say I tagged you, and mention me if you do this too! I'd love to see others who haven't gotten to this yet either 💜

[butterflies-dragons]

Hey! There was a giant lemon cake with phallic image in alayne chapter. Do you think it some coincidence or it means something? Especially it's presented by petyr. Also Sansa and her enemies giving her lemoncakes give same vibes as Hansel&gretel story.

And best of all, Lord Nestor’s cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, a lemon cake in the shape of the Giant’s Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar.

For me, Alayne thought, as they wheeled it out. Sweetrobin loved lemon cakes too, but only after she told him that they were her favorites. The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more.

—The Winds of Winter - Alayne I

Petyr Baelish is grooming Sansa, that’s the awful truth. And he has studied Sansa, he knows what she likes/wants and he will use that knowledge in his favor.

He knows she had a distant relationship with Ned, so he becomes Alayne’s father.

He knows that Ned neglected her and that she always craved for her father’s validation, so he gives her that, he praised her wits for example, and called her clever and smart. 

If Sansa says something like “I can’t” or “I don’t know”, he is there to encourage and support and tell her “you can do it” & “you know it”.  

He knows she loves knights and tourneys, so he allows her to organize a tournament, whose winners will belong to a kind of “Kingsguard” for Sweetrobin, based on the child’s favorite hero of the legends: The Winged Knight, Ser Artys Arryn.

He knows she loves lemon cakes, so he gives her a giant lemon cake.    

The Tyrells has used the same strategy:

"Sansa," Lady Alerie broke in, "you must be very hungry. Shall we have a bite of boar together, and some lemon cakes?"

"Lemon cakes are my favorite," Sansa admitted.

"So we have been told," declared Lady Olenna, who obviously had no intention of being hushed. "That Varys creature seemed to think we should be grateful for the information. I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off. Alerie, will you have them bring the food, or do you mean to starve me to death? Here, Sansa, sit here next to me, I'm much less boring than these others. I hope that you're fond of fools."

—A Storm of Swords - Sansa I

We all know how much Sansa loves her lemon cakes, but the Tyrells and Littlefinger really treat her as if she were a child like Sweetrobin:

"Will they be lemon cakes?" Lord Robert loved lemon cakes, perhaps because Alayne did.

"Lemony lemony lemon cakes," she assured him, "and you can have as many as you like."

"A hundred?" he wanted to know. "Could I have a hundred?"

"If it please you." She sat on the bed and smoothed his long, fine hair. He does have pretty hair. Lady Lysa had brushed it herself every night, and cut it when it wanted cutting. After she had fallen Robert had suffered terrible shaking fits whenever anyone came near him with a blade, so Petyr had commanded that his hair be allowed to grow. Alayne wound a lock around her finger, and said, "Now, will you get out of bed and let us dress you?"

"I want a hundred lemon cakes and five tales!"

I'd like to give you a hundred spankings and five slaps. You would not dare behave like this if Petyr were here. The little lord had a good healthy fear of his stepfather. Alayne forced a smile. "As my lord desires. But nothing till you're washed and dressed and on your way. Come, before the morning's gone." She took him firmly by the hand, and drew him out of bed.

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

The lemon cake in the shape of the Giant’s Lance

The Giant's Lance is the tallest peak of the Mountains of the Moon within the Vale of Arryn, extending three and a half miles above the the valley below.

The great-grandfather of Petyr Baelish was a Braavosi sellsword that came into the Vale of Arryn at the service of Lord Corbray. His line was continued by his son, who became a hedge knight and took the head of the Titan of Braavos as his sigil.

As I mentioned in this post, a sword, Ice in particular, works as a phallic symbol in Sansa’s chapters. 

So, we can also make this association:

The Titan of Braavos = A Giant

The Giant’s Lance = Tallest Peak

Lance & Peak = phallic symbols 

Lemon cake in the shape of the Giant’s Lance = I don’t want to write it 

We can also say that Petyr Baelish is “compensating” his “shortfalls”, after all he is a short man called Littlefinger.  

Yes, I think this giant lemon cake could be seen as a phallic symbol and it makes sense with Littlefinger grooming her... yikes

¡¡¡SOMEONE SAVE HER PLEASE!!!   

My friend @lostlittlesatellites has already wrote about these subjects, giant lemon cake as phallic symbol and Hansel and Gretel story: 

I argued that lemon cakes in Sansa’s arc actually spell people trying to exploit Sansa’s weakness in an almost Hansel & Gretel way and a betrayal that follows.

“Interestingly Sansa’s first chapter in AGOT poses questions that will drive majority of her arc. Her desire for a courtly life in the South will not only prove to be hollow but worse a dream that turns into nightmare. Sansa asks two questions: “What could you want to see? It’s just fields and farms and holdfasts” and “Why would you want to ride a smelly old horse and get all sore and sweaty when you could recline on feather pillows and eat cakes with the queen?”

The world is larger than Sansa has been taught to believe, reclining more inward into her dreams with the strict regime that she taught to look away from the window. She doesn’t think she is prepared enough and that she needs more training. Yes, she doesn’t know enough but neither does Arya or Bran or Jon. Having Sansa finally leave her cage after completing her tutelage under Littlefinger is continuing that student-teacher dynamic she has had since Septa Mordane. People come to love the security of the cage they live in too long. This is why it takes so long to take out the fear of the outside from Sansa because the fact that she has barely any experience keeps her thinking she needs someone to rely on.

[…]

The “Feather pillows and cakes with the queen” part represents the glamour that attracts little boys and girls like Sansa. However, it is hollow as Sansa comes to realise about many things. In fact, people offering Sansa lemon cakes in Sansa’s storyline often forebodes a betrayal from the person offering it. Cersei offers her lemon cakes and a few chapters later she has Lady executed and even later, she has Ned arrested. Olenna offers Sansa lemon cakes, which Varys offers as valuable information to bring her guard down in order to lure her into her trap of marrying her to Wilas and getting hold of Winterfell and the North. They have her wear the murder weapon, which could implicate her for Joffrey’s murder even if their target is Tyrion. Littlefinger is offering her a 12 foot phallic shaped lemon cake in Sansa’s TWOW chapter. Given how happy Sansa is in this chapter that she is almost forgetting that she isn’t Alayne, the food is way too lavish when Winter is coming and along with this trend with lemon cakes, the clock is going to strike 12 and the illusion is going to break very soon. Soon Sansa will prefer riding those “smelly horses” and getting sweaty and sore in order to escape over those lemon cakes and feather beds offered by untrustworthy people. For Sansa’s arc to be fulfilling she has to experience the lives of small folk up close before she helps them. As a character whose view range is often myopic, she has to be put in the middle of the lives of the small folk to truly understand them.”

I highly recommend you to check @lostlittlesatellites blog, she’s a great ASOIAF meta writer, you can read more about these subjects here and here. She covered a lot of themes and symbolisms around Sansa in the Vale, some of them very disturbing regarding Littlefinger’s present and future actions against Sansa...   

But despite all that, since GRRM is a writer that likes to give different meanings to a same thing, there are also some very interesting details that are worthy to mention about the real Giant’s Lance:

So lovely. The snow-clad summit of the Giant's Lance loomed above her, an immensity of stone and ice that dwarfed the castle perched upon its shoulder. Icicles twenty feet long draped the lip of the precipice where Alyssa's Tears fell in summer. A falcon soared above the frozen waterfall, blue wings spread wide against the morning sky. Would that I had wings as well. 

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne I

The Winged Knight was Ser Artys Arryn. Legend said that he had driven the First Men from the Vale and flown to the top of the Giant's Lance on a huge falcon to slay the Griffin King.  

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

I can see strong dragon imagery here... 

I already wrote about how Sansa wishing falcon wings could be foreshadowing of her getting dragon wings.  

Here I also listed all the similarities between Jon and Sweetrobin.

But the most interesting detail is that the real Giant’s Lance is Stone covered by Ice/Snow. 

Sansa’s Vale arc has a lot of connections with Jon Snow, like this parallel that I called “Children of the Mountains”.

There is also the names of the waycastles Stone (Alayne) and Snow (Jon).

And one of my favorite Jon Snow reference in Sansa’s chapters, the ghost wolf, big as mountains:

All around was empty air and sky, the ground falling away sharply to either side. There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains.

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

So, 

The Giant’s Lance is the tallest peak of the Mountains of the Moon.

The Giant’s Lance is Stone covered by Ice/Snow.

Sansa compared those mountains with a giant Ghost Wolf.  

I’m sorry Littlefinger, you can’t touch this girl!

Thanks for your message.

[madgrad2011]

I am so far behind in writing and posting these...I’m so sorry! I’m still planning two more parts after this one. I hope y’all enjoy! :)

Autumn Drabble for @jonsadungeonsanddrabbles Prompt: Sweet

Read on AO3 here.

“Sansa?”

She looks up with a start, spoon paused halfway to her lips. Her other hand rests on the paperback she’s reading, index finger marking her spot. His silhouette in his dark peacoat is striking against the bright reds, oranges, and yellows of the leaves behind him.

She slowly lowers her spoon. “Jon.”

She hasn’t seen him since her parents’ reception last October.

His hair is shorter, she thinks.

“You cut your hair,” she says, surprised. “No one mentioned that in the group chat.”

He moves the books he’s carrying from one arm to the other and scratches the back of his neck self-consciously. “Yeah, it’s new. I’m still getting used to it.”

They stare at each other for a few moments before she remembers her manners. “Oh! Would you, um, like to sit down?”

Jon takes off his messenger bag and slips into the chair across from her, brows furrowed. “What are you - I mean - how are - “

“I, um, transferred here from The Eyrie over the summer.”

“Oh, Robb didn’t mention-”

“Yeah, only mom and dad knew until a few weeks ago.” She glances down at her book, willing her voice not to quiver. “I asked them not to say anything until I got enrolled and settled.”

Jon is looking at her quizzically, his confusion palpable. “You didn’t come home for Christmas.”

It’s not an accusation, but it still stings like one. She had stayed in The Vale for the holidays at Harry’s insistence. She had thought that maybe - just maybe - they could recreate some of the magic she had found with Jon in that parking lot.

She was wrong.

“I just moved back,” she replies quickly, side-stepping his unasked question. “I’ve got an apartment off campus. It’s tiny but I like it. I think mom would have liked me to move in with Robb but, you know, he just moved in with Jeyne and Arya is studying abroad in Braavos. Bran and Rickon helped me move in. I mean, mom made them help. But, at least they didn’t break any of my stuff…”

She trails off, cheeks flushing. She rambles when she’s nervous. Jon studies her, lips pressed into a thin line. She pulls her jean jacket tighter and tries not to fidget under his perceptive stare.

He clears his throat. “What are you reading?”

She exhales gratefully and slides Medieval Dress and Fashion by Margaret Scott across the table. He scans the cover before flipping it over to read the summary on the back.

“Is this for a class?”

She nods, sipping her latte. “I decided on a major.”

He meets her gaze and quirks a brow.

“Art history. I already finished most of my core classes at The Eyrie so I can take ones that pique my interest and support my research here.”

“Which is?” He prompts, handing back her book.

“Fashion,” she says with a faint smile.

He adjusts his glasses, nodding excitedly. “That’s great, Sansa. You know, I’ve got some history books you could borrow - for additional context - if you want.”

“I’d love that,” she replies, her smile growing.

He glances down at his watch and pushes his chair back from the table. “I’ve got to run to class, but I’ll text you, okay?”

She nods. “Sounds great.”

He pulls the strap of his bag over his shoulder and starts off in the direction of the keep. He pauses a few steps away, turning on his heel to look at her again.

“Hey,” he teases, smiling mischievously. “I like your jacket.”

She blushes and tucks her hands into its pockets. “Thanks. You’re never getting it back.”

He throws his head back, laughing. She grins and watches the wind ruffle his hair.

***

They start meeting at the coffee shop around the corner from her apartment once a week. Jon is always early for their meetings, waiting for her at the table they’ve unofficially claimed, with a stack of books in front of him. They spend hours discussing his research, her classes, and their families.

She discovers that he prefers his coffee black and loves pumpkin scones. He tells her stories about his adventures with Robb and Theon in college. She teases him about having never watched The Princess Bride. He shares his favorite playlists with her and compliments her taste in music. She shows him some of her sketches and shyly agrees to draw him one day.

Jon doesn’t laugh at her like Harry did and he doesn’t mention The Vale.

***

“You’ve never asked,” she says one day a few weeks later after she sits down.

“What’s that?” He asks distractedly, digging in his messenger bag for a pen.

“About The Vale. You’ve never asked.”

He stops and straightens, pen in hand. She takes a bite of her lemon cake - knee bouncing underneath the table - and waits for him to respond.

He licks his lips and shrugs. “You don’t owe anyone an explanation. I figured you’d talk about it if or when you wanted to.”

She takes a deep breath, resting her hands on the table. “Harry, uh, cheated on me and-”

She hears Jon inhale sharply and rushes to finish before she loses her nerve. “I just didn’t think -  I just couldn’t - stay.”

She can’t meet his gaze.

“I couldn’t stay,” she repeats, voice wavering.

She can’t stand his silence.

“You probably think I’m so stupid, moving home because of some boy-”

“Hey,” he interrupts, reaching across the table to touch her hand. “You’re not stupid.”

She scoffs, rolling her eyes and retracting her hand. “I am. I’m just a stupid, silly girl-”

“Sansa,” he says, tone desperate. “Look at me. Please.”

She reluctantly looks up to find his grey eyes focused on her, a pained expression on his face.

“You’re not stupid, okay?” He continues vehemently. “Harry is a piece of shit. And, if you wanted me to, I would drive to The Vale right now and punch him in the face.”

“Jon,” she admonishes, sniffling. “You already punched someone for me once.”

He nods, reaching for her hand. “And I’d do it again, in a heartbeat, if you asked.”

“He’s not worth it,” she replies, squeezing his fingers. “I know that now. I just… You’re my friend and I wanted you to know.”

The brilliant smile he gifts her makes her stomach flip-flop.

“You’re the sweetest, most amazing person I know,” he says softly, caressing her knuckles. “He didn’t deserve you. I hope you know that.”

“I’m learning,” she whispers, smiling back.

***

She stops by Jon’s apartment between classes a few days later. Her classmate, Gilly buzzes her into the building. She checks the time on her phone and smiles. His last class should be ending soon. She has just enough time to drop off his gift before she has to get back to campus.

She hangs the brown bag she’s carrying on the handle of his front door. Inside the bag, there’s a pumpkin scone, a DVD copy of The Princess Bride, and a note.

Dear Jon, Thank you. For everything. Lunch tomorrow? Love, Sansa

[softcoregamer]

DRAGON QUEST XI S: ECHOES OF AN ELUSIVE AGE - DEFINITIVE EDITION

I've never played a Dragon Quest game before, so all I had to go on with this game was the pretty looking graphics and charming character art by the Dragonball guy, which- combined with having a hankering for a JRPG, a genre I haven't played since probably the Digital Devil Saga games (minus an abandoned most-of-the-way-done playthrough of SMT3 and a partial of one of the Megadimension Neptunias) was enough to sell me on it. I'm having a tough time determining if it was worth it.

(spoilers)

The story starts off very weak. Your glowing hand marks you as the chosen one, you have to collect glowing orbs to defeat the dark lord. It's like the story of a generic videogame you'd see in the background of a movie. They do throw in a little novelty to keep you on your toes- you present yourself to the king and he throws you in the dungeon, you go back to your hometown and travel back in time for some reason- but I really never warmed to the setting. It's just a collection of cliches and cute gimmicks, like the town of people who speak in haikus, the town of people who speak in rhyming couplets (you're stuck with these people for the bulk of the exposition at the start of act 2, which is a nightmare) and the town of- ugh- Italians. There's no sense of these places being places. It's just a nice pleasant fairytale kingdom of the kind that's normally mentioned in Snow White or whatever as the place the handsome prince comes from, except here you spend dozens of hours trudging through it looking for glowing tree roots and orbs. The big problem in Gallopolis is that the sultan's son isn't brave enough for god's sake. Acts 2 and 3 pick things up, and there's some neat reveals- I like that the lil red star you've been seeing in the sky right from the start was the stain of the original hero's failure to slay the villain, literally hanging over the entire setting all this time. Also the annoying act 1 scene where you get handed the name of the villain and an orb quest in an exposition dump is retroactively improved by the fact that the exposition isn't quite correct. Act 3 reintroducing time travel and actually being thoughtful about it was welcome as well, but sadly that has the effect of making you redo story points you already did since, logically, you're back in time to where you haven't done them yet. Sometimes this comes across as getting a do-over to get a more positive outcome for something that previously ended more tragically, in keeping with the way time travel is explained in-universe as essentially reloading an earlier save (and, as revealed in the end, continuing in a separate save slot). The 8th party member's act 3 quest is a standout here. In reading discussion of the game I've seen people insist on referring to this character as 8, presumably to preserve the plot twist of his existence, so I guess I'll do it too. But more often than not, act 3 quests consist of just doing the same stuff as act 2 again, in a somewhat more curt manner. This sticks in the craw after so much of act 2 already consisted of just doing the same stuff as act 1 again. The party members aren't much better, for the most part. The first three people you meet all say "ah, you're the Luminary, I was sent to help you" and there isn't much to them beyond that for a long time. Sylvando has a lot of personality, which is probably partly why he's become the game's big meme character, but it gets grating and he is insanely trite. The Dark Lord takes over the world and purges the unclean, and Sylvando's overriding concern is that he wants people to laugh and smile more. It's like he takes advantage of the fact that I need him for his boat to get my goat by acting like a fucking teletubby. Things pick way up when you meet Rab, and the 8th party member is genuinely really good. Even the early-game party members end up having their moments (Erik's backstory was pretty fun) but the game really doesn't put its best foot forward with these characters. Not that it needs to; for the first few I was just glad to be getting some help in combat. The combat is excellent in this game, when it gets going. I played with the "draconian quest" tougher enemies mode on, and I turned it off right at the act 2 end boss. The difficulty curve flowed really well this way, with act 3 enemies not feeling noticeably less tough than "draconian" act 2 enemies. The abilities and spells you get are carefully balanced so that it's very difficult to put together a perfect 4-person party, you're always missing something. This means the fact that you can change your line-up midfight isn't just a nice quality of life feature, it's a potentially vital mechanic. They tread a fine line where sometimes needing to swap people out during the battle doesn't mean the characters themselves feel useless; everyone is capable of some extremely tough stuff. And on the other end of the scale, enemy damage is heavy enough that buffing your attack and using big-damage abilities vs healing or defending can be a properly difficult choice; a heavy hit or a big heal at the right time can turn the tide of an entire battle, as can your big hitter suddenly getting put to sleep or your healer getting knocked out. Again, this is all with the caveat that I had "draconian quest" on for the first 2/3 of the game, from what I've heard combat without it is insanely easy. My big gripe with the combat is that there's very little in the way of tooltips. What's this enemy's magic resistance? Does my Sap have a better chance of landing if I up my Magical Might, or does that just increase spell damage? Does Oomphle affect Quadraslash? If I increase my agility will it go up by enough that I can take my turn ahead of these enemies? Does agility even do that? Does using abilities and spells mean I go later in the turn order vs generic attacks and defending? You just have to guess at all this; the wiki has some info on enemy stats but I don't know where they're getting it from other than datamining. There's an entire bestiary with almost no useful information which is functionally just a model viewer for all 700+ enemies. The only way to know anything is to experiment, which I guess at least adds some purpose to combat when you've filled out the bestiary for an area but still have to grid encounters- which will be required at some point, because fighting is the only way you get xp and money. There is also too much RNG. Critical hits being rare and certain attacks having a chance to cause Confusion or whatever is fine (although I'd prefer for attacks which are labelled as having a chance to inflict status effects to actually inflict the status effect way more often than they do) but why the fuck does the resurrection spell have a 50% success rate? Under what possible circumstances would I be using that spell other than needing my dead teammate back right now? Same for all the abilities on the skill tree that say "doesn't connect very often, but when it does it can cause a critical hit" OK that "CAN" is telling me that this ability which doesn't often connect won't even necessarily crit if it does. Why would I choose this ability? To handicap myself? How is this going to help me defeat the Timewyrm? All that said, when the combat is good it's really good, and whenever I lose a fight I'm thinking "I can win that next time if I do XYZ". The 2D battles are much less fun because the pace is much slower and there are no cute animations to liven it up, but it's always satisfying when the "flash" of an enemy taking damage becomes the "flash" of them disappearing, and you know you have slayed yet another blob. Non-combat gameplay is a mixed bag. The early-game fun of running around looking for new enemies to fight and fill out the bestiary wears off hard once act 2 begins and everything is either a reskin or a glowing-eyes "vicious" version of something you've already fought, and many maps are fairly sparse with just the odd treasure chest and locked door to liven up your path to the next area. That said, there are also several areas and dungeons which make a minigame out of traversing them; the Eerie Eyrie and the Battleground were standouts for me. Especially the remixed version of Eerie Eyrie you go to later on, where you get a flying mount to ride around. Crafting is surprisingly involved, with a whole minigame around it and hundreds of recipes to find all over the place. In most cases you can just use money in lieu of ingredients, which means minimal farming is required to get a lot out of the system, and the recipes with ingredients that can't be bought feel special instead of bullshit. In terms of items and recipes there really is a deluge of content- there are recipe books all over the place, with new ones available even in the last couple of maps that open up in the entire game, and there's an undeniable cookie-clicker rush you get from getting better at crafting and taking something you could barely get to +1 all the way to +3. I play games like this as a magpie, accumulating items with nice pictures and effects that make me do a 😲 face, and DQ11 certainly delivers. This even extends to character advancement, with Hidden Goodies incentivizing picking skills you might not want otherwise, and entire new skill trees opening up as quest rewards.

Overall, DQ11 is a good combat system with loot and progression systems that are well-executed enough to feel rewarding after 100 hours, all wrapped up in a style and tone that is not up my alley at all. A good litmus test for how much you'd like the game is probably: watch this scene and if you think it's the most epic thing you've ever seen then Dragon Quest 11 is for you.

[arlandvery]

Hen, Chick (and Hawk)

A concept sent to @yandere-love-love-love got me started on this fic, and the first thing I’ve written on my new laptop! Still getting used to the keyboard and it sucks! :D Anyhooo, this is written from the pov of the kid, purely because I thought it would be a bit more interesting.

You didn’t like the new apartment.

It was small; your apartment was nicer. It was big. Daddy called it an eyrie. Your room at home was big and soft- it had to be, to accommodate your wings (you were big enough now that you could keep your flapping under control, but it was annoying at home, where the worst meant Mommy and Daddy finding out you lied about brushing your teeth,but here that meant knocking into something, and after a couple of weeks your wings were sore). You didn’t have any toys here either, and that was no fun.

Mama liked it here though, you could tell.

You didn’t get it.

At home, Mama didn’t need to work. She didn’t have to leave. She could play with you all day if she wanted, or lay in bed all day. But now Mama went to work every day and left you with an elderly neighbor named Mrs. Saito. Mrs. Saito was nice, you guessed, but she was old, and didn’t really want to play, or do anything very interesting.

You missed Daddy.

You wanted him here, now. But Mama wouldn’t let call him, or tell you what was going on.

It all got fuzzy when Daddy had to leave town- he said he’d be gone for two weeks, but he’d bring back lots of presents to make up for it. Mama had hugged him tight when he left, and cuddled you when you started siffling. That day, Mama was jittery. She kept disappearing into hers an Daddy’s room. When Daddy called that night, to tell them good night, Mama had picked up and told im about her day, then let you talk to him. 

But the moment that you were off the phone, she’d said you were leaving.

And you didn’t have any choice but to go with her.

You slept in the car the first night. Then you walked everywhere. There was a tiny motel room where the water was brown and the sheets had cigarette burns. It took two weeks for Mama to find a job and another month to get the apartment.

“When can we see Daddy?” You whined that night as Mama tucked you into bed. 

Mama frowned and looked down at you, carefully tucked away for sleep, your wings folded gingerly.

“We aren’t.” She admitted, and you didn’t understand. Why wouldn’t you go home? Wasn’t this just a vacation?

“B-but I want Daddy!” You whined, your eyes getting hot with unshed tears. Mama sniffled and climbed into bd beside her, pulling you close.

“I know baby, but it’s better this way.”

But you didn’t understand.

So Mama told you a story.

It wasn’t a nice story.

But you never asked when you were going back to Daddy again.

You think about your Dad more than you want to admit.

It’s hard not to think of him, when wings sprout from your back, soft white and itching to fly. But you don’t, because that quirk would be too noticeable.

(Mom paid someone in the Quirk Registration offices to lie- you’ve got a weak quirk on paper, something about sensing changing wind currents. You don’t fly. Your wings are always folded neatly beneath your clothes, feathers plucked as soon as they grow in.

Mom cries every time you do it.

But she doesn’t stop you.)

You look like him too. You hate that.

But Mom doesn’t flinch when you move too quickly (a memory that you recovered when you were ten), or spend a scary amount of time with hat blank-faced stare when you do something that reminds her of him anymore (something that she did but used to hide). So things are okay.

You think about the story.

(The first time she told it, it was the bare bones.

There was a man who fell in love with a very unlucky woman.

He followed her and learned everythig about her; her name, where she lived, what she did, what she wanted.

And he approached her and wooed her and she loved him so much. Everything moved so fast her head spun, but that was alright, she thought, because she loved him.

She married him.

And then things got bad.)

Things are nice now. Normal. You’ve moved out of the dingy apartment and the gross hotel room. Now you live in a nice neighborhood. Mom has friends that she goes out with on Thursday nights. You usually hang out on Sundays- they remind you of when you were little and it was just you and Mom, because Dad-

(Her new husband always wanted to know where she was. He always kept her busy, and soon her other friends faded away. He was angry whenever she suggested going back to work because he could provide- why would she need to work? 

She let him isolate and manipulate her until one day she went out without telling him.

For no reason she decided one day that she wanted to go out. If he loved her, she said to herself, he’d understand her need to breathe, to be away from him, just for awhile.

She didn’t do much that day, just walked around. Did some window shopping.

But she never entertained the thought of calling her friends. Or leaving him.

When she came back that evening, he was waiting at the door for her. He dragged her inside and that was the first time he hit her.)

Mom’s gonna be late tonight, so you’re probably just gonna get pizza and do your homework. You’re thinking about calling your friend Chi and bitching over the latest garbage episode of your guys’ least favorite show that you both watch unironically.

You like Chi because his favorite hero wasn’t Hawks. Well, there was more to it than that, but it made your friendship easier, purely because you didn’t have to look at your Dad’s smug PR smile on his merch everywhere when you went to his house. Chi preferred All-Might, something you both had in common.

 But the thing is, you feel uneasy.

It’s nothing new, you always feel like that. Anxiety, Mom calls it, looking guilty. So you don’t tell her about it. It’s not her fault that you’re always scared that Dad’s coming, that he’ll find you both. You keep your long nights secret- nights where your breath is shallow and rattles in your throat and you can’t breathe because you’re so sure that he’s outside the window waiting waiting waiting

But you get home without incident. You unlock the door, lock it behind you, change into some sweatpants and text Mom you made it home safely. Then you study- math’s kicking your ass. You learn better by doing, and sitting still has and always will be a nightmare.

Mom says you get that from him.

But she didn’t sound sad when she said it. You’d been in the teacher’s office, again, because you didn’t get it, you got frustrated, so you lashed out. Mom had to leave work. You felt awful. But she didn’t yell at you or anything. She let the teacher talk, agreed you were in the wrong and then you talked about it at home. When you finally told her how hard it was she’d nodded and petted your hair.

“We’ll work on it together.”

And you did.

You learned how to listen, how to pay attention. Little tricks.

You’re not stupid, you just needed extra attention.

(And not because you don’t have a dad, like the PTA mom’s hush-whisper about)

Around 6 you order pizza, checking your phone. Chi hasn’t called you back. Mom’s messaged you to remind you not to stay up too late and that she loves you.

Love you too, ma, you text back.

(After that, her husband didn’t let her leave the house. He kept her locked in the bedroom. Sometimes he drugged her to keep her quiet. He’d come home and fix dinner and bring her out and feed her as if she were some pet.

But now the woman knew what kind of man she’d married. She began to fight him, using the pain to spur her onward.

One night she nearly got away.

But by nearly, she almost made it to the door. 

Her husband dragged her back to the bedroom and he hurt her.

-Mom shows you the scars on her back when you’re 10, because you didn’t know how bad it was and you wanted to know.

You traced the scarring carefully, with gentle fingers. You could imagine the feather in Dad’s hand. Brighter red than the blood welling up. He’d taken care that it was scar, would pull if she moved a certain way.

Hawks, the letters said, because she’d never escape being his-

And after that she couldn’t fight him, because then she was going to have a baby.)

You take a break after you order. Your eyes are starting to ache and your hand is cramping. You could call it a night reasonably. Instead you shower and unbind your wings, sighing as you flex them. You’d be lying if you sad that you didn’t worry about what the constant plucking and binding was doing to your wings. 

There’s a knock on the door and you scramble to grab your wallet.

“Coming!” You shout, running because, well, pizza.

But when you open the door and standing there, holding the pizza box is your Dad, smiling like nothing is wrong. Like you saw each other this morning, not 6 years ago. Like he isn’t a monster.

“Dad,” you say quietly, gripping the door. His smile is every bit as predatory as his name.

“Hey eyas! Gonna let your old man in?” You notice that his foot is wedged against the door. You couldn’t close it if you wanted. Or, rather, if you had the presence of mind. 

But all you can think about are the scars on your Mom and how much he scares her still. What will he do to you?

Dad’s still waiting, and laughs a little, “c’mon kiddo, pizza’s getting cold. We can catch up til your Mom gets home!” There, there’s that darkness that you know is there, never noticed as a kid.

Wordlessly, you step aside and let him in, trying not to tremble.

You know what he is, and you hate him. But that’s still your Dad. And he wants to know all about you.

“You don’t deserve to know me!” You snap, interrupting his steady stream of questions as he goes through your phone. You shove your pizza away and stand up to leave- to run.

But your Dad’s wing flares out, blocking the door and cornering you. Dad just looks up at you without moving his head.

“Kiddo, sit down. We’re gonna have a talk now, okay?”

You know what he can do with those wings. Mom tortures herself and watches his televised fights. There’s a reason that he’s #2. So you sit your ass down. He nudges the pizza towards you again.

“Tell me, why don’t I deserve to know you? Is it because I didn’t find you immediately when your Mom had a moment of insanity and stole you?” You open your mouth, but he keeps talking, eyes flashing. “Do you have any,” he takes a deep breath and tries to lower his voice, “any idea what it was like when I came home and you both were gone? Bags packed, no note, your mom’s ring just there on the counter-!”

“You can’t even tell the truth now, can you!” You demand, because damn the neghbors, hopefully they’ll cal the cops. “You called her nightly to make sure she was where you put her! How long until you rushed home because you knew she’d found a way out, a way to get us out and stay safe-”

“Safe?!” He snarled, “I finally track you down and you’re terrified of me, your wings are- are plucked, living illegally-”

“Mom has a legal job-!”

“Lying to the Quirk Registry Office is a crime, along with kidnappig.”

“You kidnapped her! You isolated her and hurt her and raped-”

His backhand is sharp and snaps your head to the side.

“Don’t you ever say that again.” Hawks voice is dangerously low, and goosebumps break out on your skin. Your cheek hurts- it’s gonna bruise. But you don’t move. “I love your mother, I did everything for her, to keep her safe, and happy. Sometimes people don’t know what they want,” remarkably, he smiles again, and you want to hurl. “She needed me, and she needed a baby- and now she needs to be reminded exactly why you don’t kidnap your child and hide them for 6 years.”

“Dad-”

“Love is a beautiful thing, kiddo,” he cups your hand and curls his wing around you, and you stifle a sob.

You...you have good memories of your Dad.

Memories that you don’t like thinking about, because he’s a monster, good memories of him aren’t fair.

But dad taught you how to groom your wings and held you when you were scared. He took you to the doctor when you got sick and surprised you in the morning with omelettes and cheese because he wanted to show his family that he loved them. When sat on his lap he’d wrap his wings around you and you felt warm and safe and you’re crying now, you can’t help it as he hugs you close and strokes your hair.

“Love is so beautiful, and I can’t let anything ruin that,” he coos, kissing your head. 

[thefudge]

not here to convert you or anything but i'm kinda surprised u hate j*nsa as much as you do - or at least find it bland as hell - do u hate all aspects of it or would you ship it at a certain angle, if approached a certain way? again, not tryina convert you lmaoo ship & let ship, it's not monogamy in this trash world. I just thought the incest would be up your ally? Also a lot of the fic can be so...missionary so idk, I thought that's why it holds no appeal? words not working rn. just confused

(same j*nsa anon here) alternatively do you ship robb x sansa? sorry, but you’re pretty much the incest lady to me. LOOK - is it because you’re too diehard petyr x sansa to fuck with the rest? Because I’m petyr x sansa trash as well, I contain multitudes. I JUST WANNA HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS, BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU’RE THE INCEST LADY SO I JUST WANNA KNOW IF IT’S THE SHIP THAT BORES YOU OR FANDOM. UR THOUGHTS ARE ALWAYS FASCINATING. I JUST LIKE READING WHATEVER IT IS YOU COME UP WITH. IF YOU DON’T MIND

“you’re the incest lady” ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 

haha friend, that’s why subjectivity is so wonderful (love that walt whitman quote), but let me break it down for you

you’re absolutely right that j*onsa should be up my alley. but there are several reasons why it hasn’t had that impact on me

1. petyr/sansa is the first ship that got me into asoiaf/got and it has stuck with me throughout the ages. it really is my kind of dynamic, no doubt about it, especially due to aidan gillen’s really strong work and the fact that petyr baelish is, without exaggeration, one of the best literary characters of the last 30 years (imo). and he brings out the best in sansa. by “best” i don’t mean moral rectitude lol. sansa really comes into her own around him. is he taking advantage of her ? absolutely. is she taking advantage of him? she’s learning how to. it’s a smart, riveting duo that doesn’t even have to be romantic for me to love it. in fact, i prefer it when it is cerebral and manipulative with a small dash of genuine emotions. 

but i AM a big multishipper who likes aaall kinds of things so why can’t i get behind this? 

2. my big gripe is with the show, where j*onsa has been introduced as a dynamic (i DO see book signs that they will be reunited but it’s not a Thing there yet).  basically, GoT has done a very poor job with them. sansa stark has stopped being a legitimate and full-rounded character since season 4. and her characterization really took a nosedive in the past two seasons, which - you guessed it - is when she reconnects with her brother, jon. FIRST of all, they had sansa apologize to him as if she had taunted him all his life, as if she had been the big bully of his youth. MASSIVE EYE-ROLL. it’s as if the writers didn’t know how to make them bond after such a long time. ohhh i don’t know, how about jon remembering those times in their childhood when sansa taught him how to talk to ladies which is a CANONIC event??? they could’ve shared a drink and laughed about his poor manners and sansa could’ve said that he had certainly “improved”. and maybe she could’ve added “i wish i had known you better”, to which he could’ve said “so do i.” SEE. see how easy that was without devaluing the characters!!! Secondly, they don’t show them talking about legitimate, important, intimate things. for fuck’s sake, i’m sure jon would like to know what happened in king’s landing and the eyrie etc. their lack of communication is why he doesn’t really listen to her advice, no? most of their show!conversations are about jon’s shallow man-pain or the glories of house stark. sansa is suddenly consumed with legacy and house-rights. and jon isn’t. and instead of talking about it, instead of asking sansa why she’s hellbent on this mission and maybe having a heart-to-heart about family and trauma…instead of ALL that, they just sort of mumble at each other and become increasingly frustrated with each other’s actions…AND OK, you’re gonna say, maybe that was the point, for them to butt heads and clash BUT

3.the show is afraid to explore their actual feelings/frustrations. sansa will sometimes be angry at him and jon will retaliate, and just when you think things are going somewhere…they both sort of shut up and fold back. the same pattern is obvious during their “affectionate” moments. it’s like they’re both holding back, either due to poor direction or poor writing, or both. the best scene so far still remains their initial hug. 

4. jon snow has also become a sham of a character on the show, and it’s hard to enjoy him with sansa when i can’t stand the way he’s written. it feels like he has been stripped of nuance and personality. so in one scene he chokes littlefinger because he’s being “protective” (possessive) of sansa….then that…just gets dropped. he receives information arya and bran are alive and is…stone-faced about it. like he’s super chill, not really affected by anything. the real jon would’ve fucking flipped, he would’ve tried to see them. and don’t tell me all of this is gonna be picked up in the 6 episodes of the last season…because i have lost all faith in d&d. 

5. i do understand why ppl ship it and i do see book-evidence for it possibly being a stealth endgame but the books haven’t butchered the characters and will surely get there more organically? the show had EVERY opportunity to convince me this dynamic was gold and wasted so much of it, imo. . i’m sure fanfics do a better job with it, but i just…every time they’re on screen it’s so wooden, and i’m certain it’s because they’re being directed by idiots. i’m sure sophie and kit want to show more feelings and act like actual human beings but i assume they’re not allowed. just like sophie and maisie were not allowed to act like sisters. 

6. their partnership ends up devaluing sansa. which annoys me. real jon would absolutely never. hell, real jon would spit on show!jon IM SORRY IT’S TRUE. that’s what’s actually really annoying about it. it could’ve been done so well but….for me it ended up being a bland mess. i’m sure that fics and fandoms elevate it, tho. 

7. even my beloved petyr/sansa has been cheapened by the show to some degree, so you can see why other ships take even harder falls

OKAY BUT robb/sansa u’ve got my attention!!! that would be so fraught! because they’re both tully kids, deep down. aaah. 

and honestly, i could be for book!j*onsa too, if it were written well. but show!j*onsa is a goddamn mess. the show is a goddamn mess. 

[sergeant-angels-trashcan]

I’m having too many feelings about Arya’s characterization on the show, so here we go:

I feel really, really strongly that D&D decided that Arya was going to be the “Strong Female Character” trope, and they took away all of her...softer character development/relationships and grafted them on to Sansa. It kind of reminds me of book Hermione and Ron vs. movie Hermione and Ron--by removing one character’s flaws and giving them another’s strengths, it shortchanges both.

So let’s just dive right in, shall we?

"I will remember, Your Grace," said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people's loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I'll make them love me.  -A Storm of Swords

So, Sansa knows that fear is no way to rule. That’s important. The thing is, this is pretty much the first time we’ve seen this sort of awareness from Sansa. I don’t know that, apart from Joffrey, we’ve seen her worry about gaining the love of others. She gets along well with other lords and ladies, so it’s never really been an issue for her, though at this point in her story, she’s being shunned by the court. Still, it’s interesting to see her realize that she should observe what Cersei does, and then do the opposite of it. 

How do you make people love you--specifically, people you rule? The phrasing of this is interesting, too. “I’ll make them love me.” Make is a forceful word. Compared to later in the series, when the Tyrells bring carts of food to win the love of King’s Landing for Margaery, make implies a certain amount of fear, or compulsion. 

The Bread Riots are the first time Sansa is forced to reckon with the reality of poverty in King’s Landing, and the first time she’s really confronted with the fact that people who have never even met her hate her. In a lot of ways, you could say it’s the first meaningful interaction she’s had with people below her station. She has maids and servants, of course, but up until this point I don’t think Sansa truly comprehends how fortunate she is. She still faces danger in the Red Keep. Any wrong move could result in being beaten and humiliated, but that’s danger of a different sort than starvation or rape or death.

Arya, on the other hand, is, from the beginning, defined by her ability to connect with people who are different than her. Unlike Sansa, who enjoys the people at court, nobles and knights and lords, Arya loves the smallfolk. Blacksmiths and butcher’s boys, cooks and horse masters. Not only is this important enough that Sansa comments on it, it’s so different from Sansa’s own worldview that it is spoken of with derision.

Sansa knew all about the sorts of people Arya liked to talk to: squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. This Mycah was the worst; a butcher's boy, thirteen and wild, he slept in the meat wagon and smelled of the slaughtering block. Just the sight of him was enough to make Sansa feel sick, but Arya seemed to prefer his company to hers.  -Game of Thrones

Everything Arya has done since this observation was made has only driven the point further home. Arya can make friends with anyone--from her tentative friendship with the Hound to her friendships with the Brotherhood to Lady Smallwood--as she continues on her journey, she has started to learn better how to interact with nobility, something Sansa has always excelled at. In Braavos, Arya is quite literally putting herself in someone else’s shoes. 

Cat had made friends along the wharves; porters and mummers, ropemakers and sailmenders, taverners, brewers and bakers and beggars and whores. They bought clams and cockles from her, told her true tales of Braavos and lies about their lives, and laughed at the way she talked when she tried to speak Braavosi. -A Feast for Crows

Arya’s ability to make friends isn’t just a casual thing, either. Maybe it’s the wolf in her. Maybe it’s the nobility in her--chivalry in the classical sense--but she protects people. She looks out for others, to the point where she knows she might do better on her own, but they wouldn’t, and she can’t leave them. This holds true for people she knows:

She would make much better time on her own, Arya knew, but she could not leave them. They were her pack, her friends, the only living friends that remained to her, and if not for her they would still be safe at Harrenhal, Gendry sweating at his forge and Hot Pie in the kitchens. -A Storm of Swords

"You leave Weasel alone, she's just scared and hungry is all." Arya glanced back, but the girl was not following for once. Hot Pie must have grabbed her, like Gendry had told him. 

The roof was gone up too, and things were falling down, pieces of flaming wood and bits of straw and hay. Arya put a hand over her mouth and nose. She couldn't see the wagon for the smoke, but she could still hear Biter screaming. She crawled toward the sound...Jaqen saw her, but it was too hard to breathe, let alone talk. She threw the axe into the wagon. -A Clash of Kings

And people she doesn’t:

"He is not a lord," a child's voice put in. "He's in the Night's Watch, stupid. From Westeros." A girl edged into the light, pushing a barrow full of seaweed; a scruffy, skinny creature in big boots, with ragged unwashed hair. "There's another one down at the Happy Port, singing songs to the Sailor's Wife," she informed the two bravos. To Sam she said, "If they ask who is the most beautiful woman in the world, say the Nightingale or else they'll challenge you....”

...Don't do that either," said the barrow girl, "or else they'll ask for your boots next, and before long you'll be naked." ...And suddenly there was a knife in the girl's left hand, a blade as skinny as she was. The one called Terro said something to his fair-haired friend and the two of them moved off, chuckling at one another. -A Feast for Crows

Arya’s training arc in Braavos is simply giving her better tools to do what she has always done: defend people. Superficially, yes, she’s learning how to kill people. The show seems to think this is the most important thing she learned in Braavos, but there’s more to killing people than just killing:

"Are you some butcher of the battlefield, hacking down every man who stands in your way?" -A Dance With Dragons

As a Faceless Man in training, Arya is learning discretion, patience, and temperance. Particularly with what she saw as she traveled Westeros, this emphasis on the value of life, and the importance of not taking more than is needed, is pretty profound. 

Sansa’s character growth is leaning more towards political savvy--just her proximity to Littlefinger would lead to that conclusion, but she’s taking part in his plans, she’s learning how to play the game, and far more convincingly than she ever did at King’s Landing. In the books, she’s learning how to manage a household--managing the resources at the Eyrie--and how to interact with people whose default is not to treat her with respect. As Littlefinger’s bastard daughter, she doesn’t have the protection of being a lady.

In the books, this is a really important part of Sansa growing as a person, something the show doesn’t give us.

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward.  -A Game of Thrones

Arya has practical skills, Sansa the glamorous ones. I think it’s important to note that, as Arya lists off the skills Sansa has, she does not deride them. Arya isn’t maligning the things Sansa is good at--Arya just knows that she’ll never be as good as Sansa at them. And even though “managing a household” is tacked on at the end there, as if Arya herself isn’t too impressed with this skill, it’s so incredibly important, particularly when paired with other foreshadowing we get about her future. Having a head for figures, being able to connect with the smallfolk--these are all skills rulers need. 

Of course, in the show universe, we don’t see Sansa learning these skills--it’s just sort of assumed that she has them. Again, this undercuts the importance of her book training arc and completely disregards certain things, like Robb striking Sansa from Winterfell’s succession line and the fact that, with Bran and Rickon presumed dead, Arya not only has a claim to the North, but the ability to rule it. 

Sansa is cultured. She’s a proper lady, the kind of girl who would do well at court, who has the potential to become great at court politics. In some ways, given her stated affinity for children, GRRM might be leading her to becoming a Master of Whisperers. A little bird commanding a flock of little birds.

"Nothing happens in this city without Varys knowing. Ofttimes he knows about it before it happens. He has informants everywhere. His little birds, he calls them. One of his little birds heard about your visit." -A Game of Thrones

Arya reads, and writes. She rides, and can fight with a sword and a dagger. She’s learning to speak different languages, and she was raised with the old gods and her mother’s faith, and has a respect for all religions that she is learning through being a servant of the Many-Faced God. She’s hunted and cooked worked for her food and been hunted. She has lived with people who wanted her dead, she’s gone hungry and begged and hang on a minute. 

This sounds familiar. 

"He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."  -A Dance With Dragons

In the books, it seems pretty clear that Arya is the one being groomed to rule. The show (D&D) seem intent that Sansa will take that role. A lot of Arya’s defining character traits have been reassigned to Sansa, leaving Arya as just an assassin. The show truncated book!Sansa’s journey to becoming a political operator for a reason I don’t get, and in the process managed to completely eliminate Arya’s interpersonal skills as well as her and Jon’s bond.

In the books, the oldest Starks (or Stark-adjacents, if we’re operating under the assumption that R+L=J) are, or have the potential to be, highly complimentary. 

Jon has command experience. He’s dealt with military, with strategy, with battle. Sansa has political experience. She has seen and lived with some of the shrewdest minds in Westeros, and has the potential to be a diplomatic link between the North and the South. Arya suited to the boring, hum-drum aspects of ruling, the day-to-day. She is a good listener. She is learning the value of patience in the House of Black and White as well as humility. She’s sweeping floors and scrubbing dead bodies. She’s not afraid of hard work, and since she started her dancing lessons with Syrio, has been learning that change only happens if you keep working at it. It doesn’t happen all at once. She knows what life is really like for the average person in Westeros. 

More than that, she’s seen firsthand the cost of war. This is so, so important. Arya has fought, she has walked through burned fields and castles, she’s been on the run, she’s killed, she’s saved people. Of all of the potential queens--Daenerys, Sansa, and Cersei--Arya is, I would argue, the only one who has truly experienced the horrors of war. Cersei and Sansa survived the Blackwater, true, but they weren’t fighting in it, and neither of them have seen the extent of damage the war as a whole has had on Westeros. Daenerys has seen more--she has waged war, but she has not fought, or killed, though she has seen the devastation of war.

Now, I’m not saying that hand-to-hand combat is required for someone to be a good ruler; I just want to point out that, of all the nobility who currently have the ability to angle for a throne, only Arya and Stannis have actually witnessed the toll war takes on the land and the people. Arya being disguised as a commoner would also vastly change what she and Stannis saw.

When show!Sansa walks through Winterfell, coming up with a plan for the surrounding areas to send grain, when she notices the armor being made should be covered with leather--these are not things Sansa would know. We’ve never seen her in a situation where she would have this knowledge, unless simply being raised in the North is enough of an explanation.

Book Sansa is a selfish character. There’s no way around this. She’s selfish, and petty, and shallow, and her journey is so poignant in the books because she comes to realize that the things she thought were important actually aren’t, and the people whose approval she once yearned for are terrible and she’d really just rather be around her obnoxious siblings. Even then, her thoughts of her siblings tend towards...well, snotty.

Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world's graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went. 

A Storm of Swords

That’s...Sansa, your sister could be dead, for all you know. The fact that GRRM includes this thought is, again, interesting. As much as Arya and Sansa disagree, Arya’s thoughts never have this sort of flavor to them. When Arya thinks of Sansa, it is more often with worry, or regret, and occasional bitterness. It’s fascinating to me how immature Sansa often is in comparison to Arya. Of course, Arya has her moments. I’m not denying that. 

Honestly, rereading Sansa chapters--I’m not sure if we’re supposed to like her in the beginning? She never strays into hate territory, but she does some pretty crappy things. She thinks some pretty crappy things. The fact that GRRM shows us these things and lets us be privy to these thoughts is important. I didn’t like book Sansa until she escaped King’s Landing. This is when her life takes a pretty sharp turn from “pampered and scared” to “lying for survival without the comforts of home”. Her journey to the Fingers is the first time she’s started to experience the things all of her remaining siblings or presumed siblings (hi, Jon) have been experiencing since the first book in some cases. She’s lying about her identity. She’s around people who can overpower her and won’t care because they don’t know she’s a lady. Even then, she’s not starving, or begging, or freezing, or fighting for her life. 

Sansa’s journey is almost purely internal. It’s all about her mental and emotional growth. Maybe she’ll wind up in a place of compassion. Maybe she won’t. Maybe her ability to detach from a situation will help her family stay alive and they ante up for the game of thrones. 

Arya’s journey, by contrast, is very external. She travels all over Westeros, to Essos. She learns how to change her outward appearance. She learns how to physically protect herself. I would argue that this is because she already has all of the internal character traits she will need to reach GRRM’s final goal for her--compassion, understanding, and a genuine love for people. 

Arya’s importance to the narrative is undermined so much by D&D’s writing. I think it’s pretty clear that they don’t understand either Stark sister. Sansa does not need to be put through more pain to be compelling; Arya doesn’t need to be emotionless to be badass. 

Here’s the thing: GRRM doesn't write strong female characters. He writes female characters well. None of them are perfect paragons. Arya and Sansa, Brienne and Cersei, Catelyn and Melisandre, are all deeply flawed just like real people. They each have strengths and weaknesses. They are petty, or impulsive, or narrow-minded. They are naive or jaded or willfully cruel. They are kind and soft and honorable. this is one of the greatest weaknesses of the show--it’s unable to let its female characters be people, and it’s Arya and Sansa who suffer.

[esther-dot]

Hi Esther! I love your metas. Regarding lyanna I just find it hard to believe that she run away. First of all, Martin gave her 2 significant quotes to show her mindset and character - love does not change man's nature and Robert would not keep to one bed. This is a hint that she would not have been infatuated with Rhaegar either. I don't think he wrote these quotes as dramatic irony just to show hypocritical a 15 year old can be.

😅

Also if the elopement was planned, she would have run AFTER Brandon's wedding not before.

Forced wedding with Rhaegar is a possibility. However I don't see why it matters weather jon is legitimate. In the show jon needed to be a threat to danys claim, what is the importance of being legitimate in the books? Being a bastard with all the baggage is part of Jon's identity. I feel it will cheapen his character if in the end jon is a true born prince. It's like saying SEE he is not a LOWLY bastard, he's a legitimate PRINCE.

Thank you! I don’t like the idea of Lyanna choosing to run away either, I just think that’s likely given what we know of the characters and what Martin has said. But a lot of people in our corner don’t agree with that, and I reblog that spec too because it makes sense to me. I told @eonweheraldodemanwe that what made me consider the dramatic irony thing was that Jon hates being a bastard, swears he will never father one, and then Martin specifically writes him forgetting to pull out when having sex with Ygritte. So that’s one of the reasons I reconsidered how Martin might choose to write R/L. Not because he wants to yell about teenagers being hypocrites, but because this is how he has written sex/love moving people, specifically Lyanna’s son, in canon. It worries me.

As for Jon being the legitimate son of Rhaegar, that’s something I started thinking was likely as part of getting Bran on the throne. I know he will be chosen to be king, but it still seems to me that there would be some kind of claim supporting that decision just as Robert had. Also, Jon had parallels with Aemon which also makes it seem likely that he could take the throne if he wanted, but chooses not to and his brother rules instead. So, it isn’t about the idea that Jon can’t be a bastard, but about the repetition of precanon things in canon. Or, perhaps more accurately, Martin foreshadowing what will happen in canon when writing about pre-canon events. Obviously, we don’t know yet, but that’s the idea.

It makes no difference to me if Jon is or isn’t a bastard,  but I think the idea of finding out he isn’t Ned’s son is more  interesting if the revelation is that he doesn’t have to be what he has hated being all his life (bastard), but that love for his family means he rejects that identity and that claim. The idea of him choosing to be a Snow would only have impact if he can choose to be something else, something (according to their society) better, and he decides he’d rather be the bastard.

I began thinking about the possibility of him not being a bastard when I was looking at some Jonsa stuff.

"Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf's leavings, but as he never touched you . . . How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?"

The thought made Sansa weary. All she knew of Robert Arryn was that he was a little boy, and sickly. It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love. But lying came easy to her now. "I . . . can scarcely wait to meet him, my lady. But he is still a child, is he not?"

"He is eight. And not robust. But such a good boy, so bright and clever. He will be a great man, Alayne. The seed is strong, my lord husband said before he died. His last words. The gods sometimes let us glimpse the future as we lay dying. I see no reason why you should not be wed as soon as we know that your Lannister husband is dead. A secret wedding, to be sure. The Lord of the Eyrie could scarcely be thought to have married a bastard, that would not be fitting. The ravens should bring us the word from King's Landing once the Imp's head rolls. (ASOS, Sansa VI)

The next chapter is a Jon chapter and because of the highlighted bits, this feels like foreshadowing for a Jonsa marriage, but Sansa has parallels with Lyanna,  and it makes sense to me that Lyanna may have married Rhaegar secretly, just as Sansa may marry Jon secretly because of how he likes to repeat things. That idea occurred to me when I was reading the Jaime chapter before it:

When he was gone, the Lord Commander sat alone in the white room, wondering. The Knight of Flowers had been so mad with grief for Renly that he had cut down two of his own Sworn Brothers, but it had never occurred to Jaime to do the same with the five who had failed Joffrey. He was my son, my secret son . . . What am I, if I do not lift the hand I have left to avenge mine own blood and seed? He ought to kill Ser Boros at least, just to be rid of him. (ASOS, Jaime VIII)

It isn’t conclusive, but that’s a phrase that isn’t used anywhere else, and since we know Rhaegar also had a secret son (Jon), I wondered if the secret wedding in the Sansa chapter was also something to be attributed to Rhaegar. It seemed odd to emphasize Joffrey’s parentage now when we’ve known since AGOT about Jaime and Cersei. So, I wondered if those chapters in succession were indicating something about Jon’s origins and because R+L=J stuff pops up a lot in Sansa chapters.

And then of course, the secret marriage idea is something that is referenced in Targ history:

Perhaps envious, after two years as Hand—and the birth to his brother of yet another daughter, Vaella, who died as an infant—Maegor shocked the realm in 39 AC by announcing that he had taken a second wife—Alys of House Harroway—in secret. He had wed her in a Valyrian ceremony officiated by Queen Visenya for want of a septon willing to wed them. (The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aenys I)

Another option is that Rhaegar legitimized him or that Lyanna thought they were married even if they weren’t:

His last act before his death, all accounts agree, was to set out his will. And in it, he left the bitterest poison the realm ever knew: he legitimized all of his natural children, from the most baseborn to the Great Bastards—the sons and daughters born to him by women of noble birth.

(deleted stuff)

While riding near Fairmarket in 155, Aegon's horse threw a shoe, and when he sought out the local smith, he came to notice the man's young wife. He went on to buy her for seven gold dragons (and the threat of Ser Joffrey Staunton of the Kingsguard). Megette was installed in a house in King's Landing; she and Aegon were even "wed" in a secret ceremony conducted by a mummer playing a septon. (The World of Ice and Fire -The Targaryen Kings: Aegon IV)

So, there is also the possibility that he is a bastard as you suggest and that Lyanna was tricked into thinking she was Rhaegar’s second wife. I’m not sure that’s the story, maybe it really is that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, the secret wedding/secret son could be about Jonsa not R+L=J, but the options presented in Targ history really make me think there’s another element to this. Basically, I’m not really convinced on anything specific, there’s just a lot of stuff that makes me raise my eyebrows.

Also, I had started writing about this from another angle in a different post that I’ve lost in my drafts somewhere, but another issue is, Jon faces certain temptations. He rejected legitimacy/Winterfell because it belongs to Sansa, but he will find out about Robb’s will and face that temptation again. It makes sense to me that he is offered another legitimacy and inheritance as the third temptation to continue his struggle.

Thanks for the message!

[starksinthenorth]

There’s a lot here to ruminate on and I appreciate such a thorough response. As two people who don’t believe in a future canon QITN, it’s not the best use of either of our time to dig further on most of it. Almost of your points boil down to differences of interpretation and opinion that likely won’t change on either side, unless GRRM ever releases TWOW. And even then probably won’t change since “who has the most effective soft power” is going to depend on the reader.

I would like to touch on two things in your response.

First, it’s doubtful that GRRM will set up Sansa to be “superfluous” in the future of Winterfell or the WFTD. He’s had plenty of opportunities to end her if he didn’t have something planned. The Vale has been sitting on the sidelines for the series, yes. But I think it’s v notable that unlike Dorne and the Iron Islands, not an ounce has been given to develop the Vale through the perspective of its natives. There’s a somewhat infamous quote where GRRM said he didn’t use an Essosi or Missandei as a POV because the story is about Westeros, not Essos. According to the wiki, Slavers Bay and Qarth weren’t in the world book because there was no interest in expanding it. IMO if the Vale was going to be relevant beyond a few Sansa chapters in Winds, he’d have added more POVs. FeastDance gave us 10 non-Theon Ironborn chapters and 8 Dornish chapters (+1 in Dorne with Arys Oakheart).

I’m not saying Sansa will be the most important person in the WOTD because she won’t. But she will be involved somehow, and I do think she stays North after, because that’s the thematic direction her book arcs have ended on at least twice. In AGOT, she envisions Winterfell after Joffrey shows her Ned’s head; in ACOK, the last line of her arc is spoken by Dontos that her hairnet “is justice for your father. It’s home.” then AFFC ends with her chapter where she wakes from a dream of Winterfell and then builds the castle from snow: “From Winterfell, she thought. I am stronger within the walls of Winterfell.” Imo these are details that can’t be ignored. In that “rebuilding Winterfell” chapter, she explicitly says “The Eyrie was no home.” To say she’s destined to stay in the Vale, when Sansa is set on Winterfell like a compass is North, is on par with the theory that Arya leaves Westeros entirely after the series end, because both have dreamed and wished of home and family since their father died.

And second: towards the end of your response, regarding the negotiations at Winterfell once all the armies show up with their mascot Starkling, and Sansa’s potential role. I’ve spent way too much time considering what it might end up like, and I do think Sansa will be involved in crowning the new Ruler of Winterfell/the North than the other Starklings. I don’t know if you’ll agree, but figured I’d share thoughts from someone who generally considers herself unbiased:

First, the teams and their mascots: Team Stannis has Jon Snow and Jeyne/“Arya”. Team Northern Lords/Manderly has Rickon. Team Vale/Petyr has Sansa. Team Riverlands has Arya.

I don’t believe Arya will be present for the politicking. The show had a lot of failings, but I believe it got “Jon and Sansa save Winterfell and Bran and Arya show up later” from somewhere. No comment on Rickon’s place. Arya showing up before the politics are settled adds little to her progression or skill set. Her claim is questionable since Stannis will prefer “Lady Bolton” over her, since Jeyne is in his possession. And even if he didn’t have “Arya,” the son and elder sister both would come before her.

I also strongly believe Arya has to show up in Winterfell with SOMETHING. The power imbalance between her and Sansa in S7 was laughable and not something I see GRRM bringing to the endgame. IMO, this requires that after Arya finishes in Braavos, she collects allies from across the Riverlands. This would be the Brotherhood, maybe some of the lords of the Riverlands (see the line of how to find Acorn Hall as potential foreshadowing), and obviously her wolves. Maybe even Brienne, if she isn’t dead or with Sansa by that point.

At that point, Arya and her allies may march through the Neck, which could wind up giving her the solution to the Winterfell politics (the infamous Will legitimizing Jon). I expect that to happen primarily if GRRM decides to make Jonrya happen. If not, Howland and co. have likely already gotten to Winterfell to enter the fray.

I also don’t think Jon will be there. The timeline for FeastDance and Winds is a mess, but it just works out for Stannis to take Winterfell with a tiny army, Davos to give the Manderlys Rickon while they wait judgment, and Sansa to show up with fresh troops. Some argument is sure to ensue, but it means less for Stannis’s own power and authority if both of his claimants (Jon/Jeyne) aren’t accounted for or nearby.

And to prove this isn’t just a Sansa-Stan pipe dream, pretty much everyone I’ve read seems to agree that Bran will be MIA doing 3 Eyed Crow training during this. Mostly because that’s the main problem, that the true, best claimant isn’t present (and even then Bran has his stigma for not being able bodied and also being 9/10).

Maybe I’m contriving a bit, but I do think the situation is likely for Sansa to have the opportunity to read the room, do some politicking, and then manufacture a solution. It doesn’t even need to be of a particularly political nature. For example, if she’s the only one who can communicate with Rickon (who could only speak the Old Tongue after time on Skaagos) she may be the one to deliver news that Bran lives and they just need to keep the seat warm for him. She may also decide this is a great time to drop all her knowledge from Lysa’s tell-all confessional, handle the Baelish problem, and win some more allies to her plan (also worth noting that Melisandre has previously said no oaths said before false gods matter so if Stannis has Sansa in his possession he can get rid of the taint of “Lady Lannister” by having her wed someone in the way of Rhllor). Putting all her knowledge and learned skills to use making Rickon or Bran Lord of Winterfell seems like a satisfactory mini-conclusion to her general arc for either the end of TWOW or beginning of ADOS before things move towards the WOTD. I assume we get 1-2 more chapters after that; she narrates what the non-militants are doing during a major battle and then in the next one she either dies or narrates some series wrap-up.

I also just think that this is a good way to even the gender scale a little. We’ve read Sam and Davos navigate similar political dilemmas in nice, singular chapters and we haven’t seen a woman deal with a simpler political problem where an answer can be negotiated quickly and work out; Arianne was almost there but was in her learning arc and Catelyn had a few standout moments, but nothing as clean and simple as Sam making Jon Lord Commander. (acknowledging that Cersei and Dany have both had more complicated issues than “which child is the mascot for the adult regent,” and that Cersei failed for being incompetent and Dany hasn’t gotten an ending and has had to try to work with people who think the others are sub-human).

Anyway, thanks again for the response above and always being a pleasant person to interact with on here. Stay well!

In relation to the recent 'Arya is naturally violent' nonsense is anyone else tired of browsing the Arya tags and coming across the umpteenth version of an incorrect quote jokes with Arya wanting to run around killing people and wise ol' Sansa holding her back? I thought it would fade off after some time, but no, it's back again. It's not even funny. It's tired and repetitive. And the worst part is that it's not even book accurate. Book canon has been twisted so far to the other extreme that nonsense like this shows up on the tags unchallenged.

On fandom hypocrisy and double standards...

Arya hunts for her own food, cooks food, mends her own cloths, is literally a slave forced to scrub pots and pans until there's bleeding blisters on her hands, sweeps the floor and cleans, is a cupbearer to Roose Bolton taking him his food, letters, maintaining his room. Is a blind beggar on the streets, a street urchin and fish peddler. Holds her tongue, controls herself and plays the meek servant even when she is being beaten, is a mouse in Harrenhal, is learning subservience at the HOBAW.

Sansa in book 3

"Varys has informers everywhere. If Sansa Stark should be seen in the Vale, the eunuch will know within a moon's turn, and that would create unfortunate . . . complications. It is not safe to be a Stark just now. So we shall tell Lysa's people that you are my natural daughter." "Natural?" Sansa was aghast. "You mean, a bastard?" "Well, you can scarcely be my trueborn daughter. I've never taken a wife, that's well known. What should you be called?" "I . . . I could call myself after my mother . . . " "Catelyn? A bit too obvious . . . but after my mother, that would serve. Alayne. Do you like it?" "Alayne is pretty." Sansa hoped she would remember. "But couldn't I be the trueborn daughter of some knight in your service? Perhaps he died gallantly in the battle, and . . . " "I have no gallant knights in my service, Alayne. Such a tale would draw unwanted questions as a corpse draws crows. It is rude to pry into the origins of a man's natural children, however." He cocked his head. "So, who are you?" "Alayne . . . Stone, would it be?" When he nodded, she said, "But who is my mother?" "Kella?" "Please no," she said, mortified. - Sansa, ASoS

What a difference in emotional maturity here between the two sisters. Arya's run the gamut in experiences from being the daughter of the warden of the north to being an actual blind beggar on the streets. Meanwhile Sansa is horrified at having to play a pretend bastard - just the mere thought of being labelled a bastard is appalling to her. And Arya is two years younger. No wonder GRRM says that Arya is like some forty year old.

Jon in ADwD has reached a stage where he casually shrugs off the insults of his birth. He ignores the Kingsmen/Queensmen who insult him and it's only when Val or Satin or Wun Wun are disparaged that he questions their bigoted viewpoints.

Cregan Karstark “I see what you are, Snow. Half a wolf and half a wildling, baseborn get of a traitor and a whore. You would deliver a highborn maid to the bed of some stinking savage. Did you sample her yourself first? If you mean to kill me, do it and be damned for a kinslayer. Stark and Karstark are one blood.”

Jon Snow  “My name is Snow.”

Cregan Karstark  “Bastard.”

Jon Snow  “Guilty. Of that, at least.” - Jon, ADwD

Meanwhile in book 6, TWoW sample chapter

Ser Harrold looked down at her coldly. “Why should it please me to be escorted anywhere by Littlefinger’s bastard?” 

A lady’s armor is her courtesy. Alayne could feel the blood rushing to her face. No tears, she prayed. Please, please, I must not cry. She showed the Waynwoods a stone face as they blurted out awkward apologies for their companion. When they were done she turned and fled. Near the keep, she ran headlong into Ser Lothor Brune and almost knocked him off his feet. “Harry the Heir? Harry the Arse, I say. He’s just some upjumped squire.”

Sansa is near tears when Harry calls her a bastard. And after running to LF to complain about Harry:

“Come,” Petyr said, “walk with me.” He took her by the arm and led her deeper into the vaults, past an empty dungeon. “And how was your first meeting with Harry the Heir?”

“He’s horrible.”

“The world is full of horrors, sweet. By now you ought to know that. You’ve seen enough of them.”

“Yes,” she said, “but why must he be so cruel? He called me your bastard. Right in the yard, in front of everyone.”

This is all in the books. That's why it's ridiculous that fandom treats Sansa as some 18-20 year old wise, emotionally mature person who has to hold back murder baby Arya from killing people and teach Jon politics 101, diplomacy and how to talk to people.

This assessment that Sansa - who in book 6 is still aghast at having to play a bastard - is somehow going to change the system from within the system while characters like Arya and Jon who interact with and live among the smallfolk and Freefolk and learn from them will fade away into the background contributing nothing to the endgame.

I had to read from an 'expert' on how Jon Snow was this privileged rich kid in Winterfell who would know nothing about food stores. And yet Jon's teachers in Winterfell would have been Ned Stark, Maester Luwin and Rodrik Cassel among others. He would have got the same education as Robb Stark. For some reason though, Sansa Stark whose primary mentor was Septa Mordane has the better skillsets for leadership.

When I mentioned that Jon Snow was Jeor Mormont's steward and as steward in training he would have learned on the job about food stores, I was informed that there was no textual evidence of that. And yet despite Sansa doing absolutely nothing in terms of leadership, we are told to take it as fact that she learned from Cersei and Littlfinger and the Tyrells and everyone she spend two seconds with in her chapters.

This is the absolute hypocrisy and double standards with how other characters are treated vs Sansa that I find obnoxious. And I am not even talking about Jonsa shippers. I am talking about folks claiming to like all the characters the same, being above fandom wank, we are here only for the textual and non-biased analysis folks.

By the time we reach book 6, 13 year old Sansa Stark is where Jon Snow was emotionally at the start of AGoT. She's also younger than Jon was in AGoT. Just the idea of Sansa giving orders to 17/18 year old Lord Commander Jon Snow, teaching him politics and diplomacy etc. is laughably ridiculous. I can't even conjure up an image of this, it's so ridiculous. But that's apparently what fandom thinks is going to happen which, how? What in the text of the books gives any kind of indication that Sansa has the skillsets to rule the patriarchal North or that the other Starks should learn from her?

It was laughably ridiculous when the show had Sansa scolding Jon for not asking her advice on planning battle and compared him to Joffrey and the show writers defended her undermining him in front of everyone because he did not consult with smart Sansa and the so called book expert Bryan Cogman said shit like this:

Interviewer: Sansa undermines Jon a couple of different times.

Cogman: So? He’s only been king like a week. Why shouldn’t she? He didn’t bother to consult her.

Yeah, the KITN did not bow down to Sansa’s apparently huge brain, so she has every right to undermine a new, elected king who has to decisively prove his credentials to the lords.  And Cogman was supposedly the Asoiaf expert on the show. Just trash writing. ASoIaF reddit dudebros worship this guy but I think that Cogman was actually far worse than Benioff and Weiss.

And yet with the Karstarks and Umbers showing up to fight the White Walkers while the Glovers sat it out in season 8, the show itself implies that Jon Snow was right in his decision to pardon them and that Sansa was wrong. So she's not that smart after all. So why should Jon consult her again? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I would like to read one essay, just one essay detailing Sansa's skillsets with book quotes and in what way those skillsets would contribute to her leadership arc in the North. I have done one for Arya. We have got detailed analyses, nitpicking every aspect of Jon and Dany's leadership from these experts on their flaws, failures and mistakes. I would like them to do the same for Sansa, since they are so insistent she's going to be the hope and change for future Westeros and best leader yet.

But they would probably consider even asking for this as Sansa hate. Sansa's credentials are not to be questioned. It just is.