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goldentigerfestival · 6 months ago

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Due to Tumblr's image per post limit, this is the continuation of my dub changes in Vesperia post.

Part 1.

Part 3.

Part 4.

(Other) GTF Favorites.

In the dub this was changed to "I guess I'll have to play by own rules", but this is actually supposed to be Yuri repeating what he told Flynn before he killed Ragou (of course since it has to do with Flynn in some manner they changed it 🤪). Basically, they changed him reflecting on his own words which I just really don't get why they'd change that since it's literally a callback.

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A break here because it's less directly a translation note and more a very large grievance of mine. I am also terrible at explaining things in only a bit of text, so... yeah.

See how much plot I skipped over here because nothing was heavily changed? This is what I mean when I say a LOT of it has to do with Flynn. A lot of the time when he's not around/saying anything/being talked to or about, the translation itself (barring Yuri's vocal tone, and Raven and Karol are much more lively in JP) is mostly on point with very few alterations (there are definitely some, but nothing really important in a lot of cases).

We go this long with things being pretty much fine (minimal changes and nothing important or glaring), but right as Flynn is brought back into the picture, things start going haywire with Yuri's dub again, only to eventually end up at the Nordopolica port scene that was completely botched and torn apart.

The thing is, I can understand why a person might not notice it if they've only played/heard the dub. Coming off of JP audio/context though, (at least for me) it comes off as "why did they make these changes that often paint him in a worse light", i.e. the tonal/contextual changes perceive him more negatively than the original, which I can't fathom why a loc team would do that unless it was intentional, which is a whole can of worms in itself (and again, especially when chunks of the translation are perfectly fine when he's not involved).

Whether or not it changed your personal perception of Flynn when dealing with him (at any point in the story) I don't know, but coming off the JP side, it feels like there was an intention/motivation to make Flynn be perceived more negatively (again, due to both tone/context). It's like Yuri was used as the vessel in the dub to create this negative vibe around Flynn as a character (or, in a sense, to make the player view him negatively through Yuri as the lens - the main character we're supposed to be rooting for), which also sucks doubly because they're supposed to be closer than that.

Again, I don't know what went on in that loc room, but I do know the original did not treat Flynn this harshly. Again! You may not notice it just from the dub by itself, or you may. What I'm saying is that, looking at all the original context and hearing the original audio, Flynn is treated completely differently (I'm not just talking about Yuri himself, but this sort of pull for the audience that the dub seems to have), and everything comes across for him as worse from the get go upon meeting him.

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As previously mentioned in the last post, if the subtitles just copied the exact same thing the dub said, I left them out as it defeats the purpose of these posts.

Would also like to preface this by saying this particular conversation was not particularly off the rails in what got changed. It's mainly just interesting things worth noting between the two versions.

I'd like to get a little more literal with this one. The dub kinda stuck flair into it (that imo takes away from how heavy the plain original sentence is), but Yuri more specifically says the law is always on the side of those in power. This is a bit different than saying the laws are tools of whoever happens to hold all the chips. I wouldn't say the localization here is necessarily wrong, but I find that it's more powerful to say the law is just an ally of people in power, because that's the truth of what they're going through.

Saying "all the chips" implies more that it's one person at the top (Alexei in this case). Not everyone in power can have "all the chips". The law can, though, be used to aid anyone in enough power to twist things.

That said, again, I don't think the dub's version is necessarily an incorrect thing to say (especially since Alexei does hold all the chips technically and is manipulating everything, but in the more literal JP sense it's not what's being said here), but I find that the implication of (current) law only existing to aid powerful people means more. It gives more of a variety to me in its meaning, and basically more properly conveys that laws are made by the powerful for the powerful. Hence, in this case, why Yuri isn't taking to the law. The current laws were not made for people like him, nor to defend people like him or the innocent civilians.

So this one is a bit trickier to translate into English, but essentially, what Yuri is saying here isn't about dying ("sorry you have to die today"), but rather sort of the inverse. He's basically saying, you would save their life only to tell them to just bear it (the suffering) for now and that [Flynn] will someday rectify the issue causing them to suffer.

In other words, he's basically telling Flynn he can't watch as people continue to get trampled over while [Flynn] works to fix things. Sort of like, you'll save their life but leave them to continue to bear/put up with the suffering in the meantime until things get better. You'll save their life, but they'll still continue to suffer while you're working to fix things.

For me this one holds more weight than the dub. "Go on hurting people" is a lot less extreme than hurting people until they die, which is what was at risk of happening in Mantaic. Yeah, of course he cares about the repetitive harm, but them being pushed around until they die is even worse, and he knows that's exactly how far this has all gone (and he saw it happen at Heliord, also with Cumore. Basically, Ragou and Cumore both saw others as nothing but playthings to be used until they die, which can further emphasize Yuri's decision to decide they needed to die because all they would ever do is continue causing innocent people to die).

Not too much of a change, but Yuri is mentioning how people will be oppressed by such villains, rather than victimized. Bit of a different meaning! You can be a victim, but it doesn't mean you're necessarily being oppressed.

This is Flynn's response to Yuri telling him, "I'm not choosing. I've already chosen" (to dirty his hands).

This is basically along the lines of "so this is how you do it?" This is a callback to Yuri saying he'll do things his own way (and this turning out to be his way). With the existing context I'd translate this to something like, "so this is your way of doing things?"

First one, just to note, is him just saying "you", which obviously sounds stupid in English, but it's more reflective of saying "you..." in response to Estelle saying she won't go back to the castle. It's sort of like saying "you... (won't even after this?)". They changed this to "hey...", which I'm guessing is because they weren't sure how to translate just "you". Personally, I'd just translate this to "you..." as a trailed off sentence (i.e. adding ellipses for proper language tone).

Second one is actually a really unfortunate loss that is trickier in translation. This is the same thing she says and does to him after they fight Zagi off at the castle (which is not the case in the dub between these two scenes).

Unfortunately this is partially because the term can technically be translated various ways (it doesn't literally mean "nice to meet you" as there's a completely different phrase for that, but this is often translated to that which is what happened in the dub). She was basically telling him at Zaphias to please take care of her (i.e. she was in his care to get out of the castle). He asked what she was holding her hand out for, to which she says "it means, please take care of me". More literally, it's asking for a favor (sometimes you'll see this translated as something like "looking forward to working with you" and so on. Again, various ways to translate it).

Here, she does the exact same thing she did back then when she tells him she won't be returning to the castle. She's telling him "it" (what she's doing, holding her hand out) means "please take care of me", i.e. she's once again in his care (or, again, also "looking forward to working with you" as in I plan to continue to work with you despite this), i.e. she will be continuing to travel with him, cementing that she truly means she's not going back and that him killing Ragou and Cumore isn't coloring her opinion on him. By telling him the exact thing she told when they were leaving the castle, she's telling him she's still entrusting her safety to him (despite knowing he's "a killer" now, in difference to that he wasn't back then).

Again, the dub changed this term when they met to "it means, nice to meet you". Not that I don't get why they did it and it still realistically makes sense (but Estelle in JP does not say はじめまして, i.e. hajimemashite, which is literally "nice to meet you", so the intention behind it was different and was possibly written with the intention of the later callback, which is meant to say Estelle is still entrusting her safety to someone who views himself as a killer and has actually killed. It's supposed to have more impact/weight to it, which is unfortunately lost in the dub).

I'd say it's more common that that phrase is translated that way, if only because in English, we don't usually use phrases like "please take care of me"/"I'm in your care/looking forward to working with you". In this case the dub change does make sense, and it's primarily an unfortunate loss of difference in language. She's basically telling Yuri that she still trusts him and the statement is (likely) meant to make him feel better.

Yuri uses slightly harsher language here, basically calling the decision to cut off the route unlikable, bad or even disgusting (versus who do they think they are).

As some of you know I've already made the Nordopolica port scene its own entire post because the dub was that fucking bad. It completely skewed the perspective of Yuri's real emotions and how hard the whole thing was hitting him. If you want to give it a read, I've detailed everything already so I won't be doing that in this post as well and am just linking it here.

For this post I just put what I found to be the most jarring, unnecessary and conversation-tone changing part in this scene contextually (as I obviously can't use vocal tone here, but that's why I linked the video!). To put it simply for this post, Yuri wants Flynn to answer him and is expressing that. He's not treating this conversation like he's got all the answers. He's not shoving it in Flynn's face that he isn't answering back. He wants him to. This isn't a one sided smackdown conversation. It's Yuri trying to get answers but also to get Flynn to see and understand that he can't be doing this. Meanwhile, Yuri's voice is cracking the longer he goes on talking (and his voice only cracks a few times in the whole game, but when it does, he's extremely emotional).

Here, Rita is fully siding with Yuri and expressing that basically, she doesn't think people would blame him/have a problem with it. It comes across a bit differently than her dub counterpart, which seems more detached and only based with reasoning. Like Estelle earlier, she's kind of sticking in a means of making Yuri feel better in her own way and expressing her trust in his decisions.

In the dub she says, "though the severity of the crime may differ, there's no such thing as someone suspected without cause". It doesn't hold the same weight imo, and I'm not sure why they added "severity of the crime", when Ragou and Cumore's crimes were both horrendous and murderous (they were just done in different ways, but they both would've resulted in death if Cumore's plans hadn't been stopped both times. Ragou's actions had already gotten people killed by the time he was found out).

Suspected with cause, sure, puts Yuri in the right, and I don't think this one is extremely out there or anything, but I definitely feel that the emotional attachment/trust aspect of it between Rita to Yuri was lost. Her wording here is more of a Rita way of trying to make him feel better.

The dub mentions Flynn using extreme measures, whereas here Yuri is calling it unlikable/unwanted/unpleasant/etc. It adds to how he's feeling about the situation, and how he's seeing Flynn progressively worsen his tactics and expressing that he doesn't like it. "Using extreme measures" doesn't have any emotional attachment or any personal opinion attached to it, which imo is partially the point here with the original text.

The dub goofed here. They had Patty ask if Don met him/Aifread somewhere recently, but they all know Aifread is "dead" and has been. She was supposed to be asking if she herself had met Don before, which is a hint to her being Aifread and having personally met Don before, hence her having this feeling she's already met him.

Don can't tell because she's a child now because of the curse (and it's possible if he thinks Aifread is a man that he never directly met Patty, instead having met Seifer, but Patty may have been there and saw Don herself at some point). This is why Don isn't sure if he's ever actually seen Patty before and can't say, versus the extremely odd "can't rightly say (if I've seen Aifread recently who we all know is and has been dead)".

Not sure why the dub changed this to him going after Karol when he specifically mentions going to where Don is, but... yeah, that happened.

Dub changed this too slightly. Not sure why other than they thought it sounded weird, but... it doesn't lol.

Raven calling Harry an idiot was changed to "like hell you are", and him saying goodbye was changed to "it's been fun". Minor changing, but I figured since a lot of this scene got altered in some way that I'd add these.

THIS one is the one I hate the most in this scene right next to them changing Yuri's dialogue. The dub changed this to him saying "Whitehorse", indicating a distance in their relationship and a power dynamic that still exists between them on Raven's end even in Don's final moments despite how close they are.

In the original they're on a first name basis in Don's final moments, and Don clearly doesn't care or feel offended by this, indicating closeness between them. Raven doesn't just respect Don, but sees him as a friend and a companion and is letting that be known so Don can at least hear that before he dies.

No idea why the dub changed that. Changing which name Raven uses here really changes the entire vibe of their dynamic, and not for the better.

All Yuri literally says is here "I'll do it" when Don asks for a second. He says nothing about honor in being the one to slice off Don's head, and saying that very much conflicts with how he feels after doing it. I get the feeling the dub was trying to go with the idea that it was honorable to help Don in his final moments, but I'm not so sure it's honorable to slice off the head of the most respected man in Dahngrest, and much less when it's weighing Yuri down afterward.

Yuri also gives a kind of resigned "I'll do it because nobody else is stepping up" voice. I get the feeling the dub wanted to try to make him sound cool here (and that really seems to be the general idea of what they were doing overall with Yuri), but if nothing else the scene itself was... very much opposite of cool.

This entire line got left out of the dub (or just replaced outright with the line about Patty) in the DE version and I'm not sure if that was a bug or not because it was present in the 360 version ("but what about Karol...?"), but basically in the dub Estelle goes from talking about Rita and Patty to Yuri saying "I said he'll be fine". Not really a translation issue, but I think it's possibly a bug/glitch in the dub that yeeted a line so I figured I'd add it here while passing by it.

Another case of the dub just adding random lines in for no reason. Really don't know why they did that here. She never said anything about that being weird and is only asking it in a "why would you say that" sense.

This is actually more along the lines of calling someone an idiot/a fool, but the dub just slapped on a "geez" and moved along, as it does (honestly not sure why the subtitler put that line here).

Here Yuri doesn't say her answer will "decide her fate". He just says depending on her answers that they may not be able to forgive her.

"Not very honest" was changed to "you're a slippery one" in the dub. Another instance of I'm not sure why they changed it, because at least to me they don't really mean the same thing? I guess in a sense they could, but it's still a weird change to me.

While this is a bit of a smaller case, it's little things like these that add up with Yuri. Here he's not saying he doesn't want to disappoint Phaeroh if he wants to fight, he's just saying if he's going to do it (fight them), then it can't be helped (implying they will fight back). The dub tends to stick in a lot more aggressive attitude with Yuri and make him way more pushy than he is.

Part of this also sort of includes my opinion but this is also my blog and I want to talk about it.

Here Karol was saying Yuri needs to be punished too for the guild. The dub pointedly leaves his awkward agreement out and just has him say "well..." as if he doesn't agree with it and/or is just going along with it not to argue. Here, Yuri is basically saying "w-well, yeah" or "w-well yeah, I guess". In other words, he understands Karol's reasoning and sees why Karol thinks he should be punished with himself and Judith. He may not like it, but he can see where he's coming from.

Leaving out his agreement just makes it sounds like he's no good at taking responsibility or understanding someone's reasons for him needing to be punished (which is now a running theme for him, since in the original he also was understanding about Flynn's response at Nor to his smalltime crimes, which the dub also made him sound annoyed about instead of understanding). It comes across as part of this aggressive, attitude driven demeanor he has in the dub, as if it makes no sense to punish him when he's done things for the good of others (which does not fit his character all and he's willing to take responsibility for everything he's done, but in the dub, suddenly not this? When it's about their guild?)... when Judith was doing exactly the same thing, and yet he was saying earlier to Karol that even though she did that, she did break their guild laws, i.e. it was for the good of others, but she still did it so they need to figure out what to do with her. Both of them were doing things for the sakes of others and not telling anyone about it, and Karol is punishing them equally for it.

Simply having "well..." gives off this vibe of "well I don't agree but I don't want to argue either", but imo the tone also gives off this vibe of "but also I kinda do want to argue it", versus his actual admittance/acceptance done in a way that's actually fitting to his character.

Yuri doesn't say Karol is full of surprises, he outright calls him amazing.

You could also read this as "this is kind of a strange place, isn't it". The dub, uh, changed this to "Man... this is amazing!". Yeah. I don't fuckin' know, guys.

Continuing in the next part due to the image limit!

#GTF JP Vesperia Things #GTF Vesperia Localization Woes #I'm not posting all of these in the main tag since I'm linking them all together anyway #and I don't want to flood the tag when they're all linked anyway. I just want to help #get ppl more knowledgeable about JP Yuri bc I love him so muchhh ;;#but I figured in the meantime I'd just go through the whole game and point out the other whacky things #like the mistakes and such while I was at it so... here we are I guess

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