#I like how I'm posting this right after pissing off a chunk of the fandom with my LAST sxf post lol

[batneko]

spy x family role swap Eden AU where Anya and Damian did the whole fake/legal marriage thing for the enrollment process but don’t live together. Damian is following in his father’s footsteps, working his way up through the government, lots of powerful men keep apartments in the city so they can be closer to work. People have their suspicions but they’re polite enough not to say anything. Loid is fine with it because he never quite warmed up to his “stepdad” anyway.

and then one day when he’s a young teen Loid comes home barely holding back tears because his crush classmate just lost her parents and it’s only her and her brother now and what’s gonna happen to them? There’s no other family to take them in. Yes, Loid is upset he’ll never see Yor again, but it’s also bringing back memories of when he was alone as a kid and he wouldn’t wish that on anyone, especially not someone he likes.

of course, Anya has much the same trauma from her childhood, so the next thing she knows she’s calling Damian and seeing if he’d be okay “adopting” two more kids. Damian is like “sure fine whatever” because he figures it’ll give him some good press (and he could never deny Anya anything, seriously, he’d chop off a toe for that woman). But it’d be a bit awkward having two teenagers in the house, and Yuri really seems to dislike Loid for some reason... Hey! Damian has his own apartment! What if the Briar siblings moved in with him?

Damian, weak, agrees.

and then it’s a story of two single parents who are technically married to each other.

[utilitycaster]

How can Molly's death be considered a major mistake? It's the crux of the entire campaign.

so I think about this a lot, because you're right, and it really comes down to like...a lot of factors in how people interact with fiction, and some stuff I feel about fandom.

The short answer is that Molly is some people's favorite character, and they really wanted to watch him for 141 episodes and not just 26, and they didn't get to, and so it's valid to feel sad about that. But I think what personally grinds my gears is the idea that it's a mistake and because this is a Fan Favorite character he SHOULD have come back. Setting aside the fact that he had both his fans and his detractors from the start and a lot of people (myself included) who found him irritating didn't say much for a good chunk of C2 because, well, he was dead, this isn't a fucking competitive reality show. You don't get to vote on your phones to decide who wins a resurrection.

I think the longer answer is that there is a certain type of person in fandom, born of a certain type of person in social media communities, who just...is not willing or interested in considering not just that their experiences, preferences, and philosophy are not universal, but also that they are not objectively best and correct and that everyone who disagrees is wrong. It's often really common in, though not exclusive to, people who have particularly limited experiences - young (like, teenager/early 20s), people who haven't lived in a diverse area or in multiple different areas, people who for whatever reason do not get out much - which both makes sense (haven't been exposed to a ton of different perspectives irl) but also means that you get people who, for all they may talk about global politics, kind of unconsciously seem to act as though everyone they interact with online is a variant of someone from the same 3000 person town in the United States in which they've spent all 21 years of their life. ANYWAY getting back to the main point I feel like Molly attracted a lot of that kind of person, who just...doesn't get that while Molly is, to them, a deeply validating expression of gender identity, for many people he is "guy you meet at your friend's birthday party in a two-bedroom 6 floor walk up and within 5 seconds he has pissed you off so profoundly with his overfamiliarity that you go into the kitchen and mainline as much vanilla vodka as possible to not stab this guy with a secondhand knife that says "CHEESE!" on it even though you hate vanilla vodka and it's summer in NYC and you're on the 6th floor in a small apartment with too many people so it's approximately 117 degrees Fahrenheit in this kitchen and the vodka isn't much cooler, and you succeed in this goal, and then after sending your friend who couldn't make it because they were at a family thing that weekend a picture of a rat on the tracks of the 3 train with a caption "this u?" at 1:54 in the morning you're like "so this guy Molly was there" and they're like "oh my god I met him at Cameron's last party, he SUCKS" and you're like "I KNOW". Like a lot of people just do not get that Molly was very popular with their circle, and also a lot of people either were neutral-to-not-feeling-it. This is before we get into the post-death idealization of who he was that takes him from "irritating but I think he'd have grown on me in some ways eventually had he lived" to "horrible and insufferable fake-ass bitch."

And then we get to the true impasse: the idea that something that does not fulfill every single one of your personal wishes might still be a great story.

I'm certainly not perfect, and there's things I thought I wanted for the end of C2 that I didn't get, and there's some things I do wish we'd have gotten to see (or that we'd have done in C3), but I like to think that I try to remain at least partially open to the possibilities. I like to think that my enjoyment of a story isn't contingent on whether one single character survives, even if they are my favorite (and I say this as someone whose favorite ASOIAF character was immediately Ned Stark, a statement that should surprise no one who follows me) nor that the story precisely reaffirms my existing worldview. I want stories to tell me something new and interesting that wouldn't come from my own head, and I want them to sell me on it. I think that a lot of people lost the thread of the importance of representation, namely, they forgot that while it's great to see people like you in a story, you should also be trying to see people not like you and perspectives that aren't yours. I am extremely defensive of my and other people's right to say "I didn't like this story and here is why" without someone being like "Give it a chance! Here's why I think it's good" but at the same time, there is a difference between "I really wish Molly had stayed alive and I don't like that he died," and "everything that happened after he died was A Mistake because it wasn't what I Wanted, and someone should fix this." Like that's what toddlers do. That's not an adult way of interacting with narrative.

So those people don't even get to the point of "the entire campaign is deeply influenced by the loss of Molly; that is what binds the rest of the Nein together and makes them what they are; the fact that Lucien wears the face of a departed friend is crucial to the entire final arc comprising about 20% of the campaign; and the fact that he does not come back, but someone new, with new chances and new choices to make does is emblematic of a campaign about people who find that they cannot undo their pasts, but neither are they trapped or damned by them." They're stuck at "guy I liked died and I'm throwing a tantrum 6 years later."

[sunsetsover]

"I swear half this fandom don't actually like Ben" lmao true! Thing is though he's not likeable all the time and he can be a right old dick. But personally even if I don't like him or his actions at certain times, I feel like the broader picture is still there and I root for him because I get why he's like he is? And I can see and appreciate the softer sides of him even if they're fairly well hidden at times.

I also think some people in the fandom intellectually understand that he's traumatised and a survivor of various abuses, and when that shows in certain ways e.g. like if Callum or Lola is comforting while he's crying. But when it comes to situations like this week with Jags and Whitney, I personally think some people have struggled to understand how his trauma connects to it because it's not as obvious as e.g. Whitney's fiance dies, Gray manipulates her, bish bash bosh hit and run. Even more broadly I think it's easy for the audience to underestimate how Ben's experiences have shaped him because there's a distance created by time, his criminal actions, his (un)likeability factor, not viewing Phil as an abusive parent etc.

I don't wanna say everyone criticising him is like that btw! I'm sure there's a few reasons but I think this plays a part tbh.

i get what you're saying but to me it's like.... why would you even waste so much time invested into someone you don't like most of the time. i genuinely don't get it. ppl tend to ship ballum but hate ben AND hate the majority of the sls lately and it's like.... it's 2021 bro it's not like gay couples are THAT rare anymore there is so much media out there if you're not enjoying what ee are doing then you literally do not have to watch. in fact im BEGGING you for your sake not to. literally just do not engage with media that you aren't enjoying. do not sit in your own negativity writing 20 posts a day abt 'why are they doing this? why don't they do that? if they did this i would enjoy it more' bc you're only making yourself miserable. like this goes for any type of media but literally just stop engaging w it if you're not enjoying it anymore. the think pieces don't help anyone. your opinions aren't universal and they aren't gospel. we all need to stop confusing our opinions w facts. just bc i'm not enjoying smth doesn't mean other ppl aren't and vice versa. just bc i'm not enjoying smth doesn't mean that the thing needs to change. eg i hate the fact that callum is a copper and pray every day that something will force him out of it BUT it doesn't really affect my overall enjoyment of him as a character and it doesn't mean that the show has to make him quit just bc i don't like it. you (the royal you not u specifically anon lmao) might hate the fact that ben still does illegal stuff but that doesn't mean the show has to make him stop just bc you don't like it. if it affects how much you enjoy him as a character/ben and callum as a couple then maybe consider stopping watching. festering in the energy of 'i hate this, i hate what they're doing and here's 1200 words why' is unhealthy! i learned this the hard way !

i know this seems like an irrelevant ramble but i think i've realized that this is what my issue is. ppl not understanding trauma is frustrating and damaging and still pisses me off, but i feel like what actually pisses me off more are the ppl who just don't even attempt to be understanding bc underneath it all they're angry/frustrated at the show/sls and that's how it manifests itself. ppl don't like the direction ben and/or callum are going in and so the minute they (and it's usually ben lbr) step out of line they JUMP on that as an excuse to vent their frustrations and often end up saying shit that is ignorant or damaging or mean or just straight up cruel abt things that are so often symptoms of mental illness or trauma. so they're out here posting so many things and making these cruel little comments bc they can't just acknowledge that they don't actually like ballum anymore meanwhile ppl who are actually disabled/mentally ill/traumatised are sitting there reading all of these things and seeing all the people agreeing w them and it's doing real life damage to people.

is it on purpose? probably not. but that doesn't make the damage any less real. i have never forgotten or forgiven the way ppl reacted after ben went deaf. it was vile. as a disabled person who reacted very badly to being disabled just like ben did, it genuinely fucked me in the head seeing what ppl said abt him during that time. now i understand that it was partially ignorance but also a big chunk of it was ppl being unhappy bc they thought they wouldn't be able to enjoy their ship anymore bc ben was disabled (not that he hadn't been disabled before, but now it wasn't ignorable anymore).

idk there's more i could say but i feel like it's pointless. ppl don't care lmao all they care abt is their ship. which, ok fine whatever, but stop letting ur mentally ill/traumatised/disabled followers get caught in the crossfire bc you can't just admit you're not enjoying it anymore and feel the need to tear the thing down and rant about how it's 'bad writing' or 'out of character' etc etc. it's frustrating to read (which is why im never on here anymore) and speaking from experience it hurts YOU in the long run. negativity breeds more negativity.

you don't need to make excuses! just let it go! find something that does make you happy! you deserve that! and we deserve to be able to enjoy something without seeing ppl tearing it (or worse - us) down every 5 minutes !!

(edit - to clarify anon none of this was aimed at you i just sort of started ranting and didn't even really answer ur question im sorry !! i get what ur saying tho lmao 💞💞💞)

[birchwoodswolf]

Are you okay? I'm sorry the fandom's been rough on you- it kinda sucks, but there are some really cool people here! (You're one of them, obviously.)

Full response under the cut, because this is kinda long and personal.

Anyway, here are the tags in question that almost certainly incited this ask (originally from this post):

#listen;;; okay;;;;; im so fuckin tired #ive had to deal with this shit for five years with no fuckin Release #this is literally the only reason ive stayed in the fandom after all this time: the fact that i fuckin KNEW that something would happen here #and now im so close to being RIGHT #and sure the hagemans giveth and the hagemans taketh away but they’ve already taken so much

#all i know is that either way im probably gonna be leaving the fandom after ns8 and id prefer to go out on a good note #if they’re just going to be fuckin julienbaiting trash till the end then fine by me i wont fuckin bother watching this stupid shit anymore #and if they go through with it? congrats; and now he’s dead permanently (probably) #and considering that the hope of his existence has been the only force keeping me from escaping this hell fandom #i for one cannot wait to be freed from my chains

And yes, I mean every word of that - but it’s not for the reason you’re alluding to. Honestly, I’ve had no huge issues with the fandom that would force me to leave (disregarding all the Disgusting Shippers) - there are some good people, and I’ve made a lot of friends here. It’s just that I’ve been growing increasingly frustrated with the show over the past several years. The only thing that’s kept me from leaving has been a feeling - almost a premonition - that Julien was going to get a better send-off than what he got in S3. After all, it ain’t over til the fat lady sings, and at that point, the fat lady didn’t even exist.

Am I so petty as to completely disregard the show because I’m mad about how my favorite character was treated? No, but I’m still really disappointed in it. He and Zane had (and by comparison to all seasons since, still have) the best platonic relationship in the entire show, possibly only tied with Cyrus and Pixal (and Cyrus hasn’t seen Pixal since the end of S3 - what’s with Ninjago and either dividing, ruining, or otherwise negatively interfering with parent/child relationships?). The love they had for each other was pure, simple, and unconditional - and in a way, they completed each other.

But the biggest issue I have with Ninjago, the most significant reason why the newer seasons piss me off so much, is the inverse relationship between the quality of the story and the quality of the visuals. Because, for whatever reason, the show can’t have both.

Sure, the pilot, S1, and S2 look decent - but they’re nothing compared to the later seasons. For an example, compare the water physics between the opening scene of Tick Tock and Morro’s death scene in E54:

It’s practically night and day - and this is only one aspect where things have improved significantly. Take the Spinjitzu; in the early seasons, it’s just a normal, flat tornado, but when Kai uses it in E55 (as one example), you can even see sparks flying off of it. Or how complex some of the areas have gotten, how much detail is present now compared to back in the early days.

Or the lighting. Or the effects. Or the creature designs. 

The show has become more and more beautiful, but in the process, the story and characters have been completely decimated. The plots have also gotten much lazier - there could’ve been any number of ways to resolve S6 without resorting to retconning all of it, but nope! They lazily retcon it and create a huge paradox (as Sensei Yang’s temple was left floating in the sky, even though it was only pulled up there in E60 - which was obviously retconned, as only twelve minutes of S6 are effectively “canon” to the current timeline).

Then there’s the love triangle for lazy drama, and all the time they had to waste afterwards attempting to “fix” Jaya (which, to be completely honest, hasn’t worked at all). Most of the other relationships the show has teased haven’t worked out well, either, because there’s always something Really Bad about them (whether it’s the obvious emotional dependencies exhibited by Jay and Zane in their relationships, or all of the incest jokes with Kai and Skylor in S4, or whatever the fuck is wrong with Wu and Misako, which I honestly can’t put a name on).

And don’t even get me started on the characterization! Literally everyone has been reduced down to one or two traits - “robot”, or “annoying”, or “impulsive”, or “foodie”. Sure, these traits were always present back in the early seasons, but they weren’t nearly as exaggerated then as they were now. Jay’s and Zane’s characterizations have especially pissed me off - Jay’s extremely annoying practically 24/7 (especially in S6, jesus fuck), and after he went Titanium, Zane’s become a smarter-than-you asshole who’s always trying to fix shit by himself. (I could honestly go on about him all day, but I won’t.)

Out of the last several seasons, the only one that I can definitively say I liked was S5. The plot was interesting, and I could form an emotional connection with it; the characterization was still decent (or at least not anywhere near as bad as in S6); a ton of cool concepts were introduced, such as the Cloud Kingdom, the Realm Crystal, and Nya being the Water Ninja, among other things; and I liked all of the new characters.

I also liked Day of the Departed, and S7 was decent, but S3, S4, and S6 were honestly terrible. S3 and S6 don’t need any explanation (as the only redeeming qualities are some of the new characters, as well as the last 10 minutes of E34 and TLR); but S4 was mostly just because I was having major issues with the fandom at the point, decided to take a break from it, and never got back around to watching it (as I only came back to the fandom as soon as the S5 hype train got rolling).

And speaking of fandom issues, boy do I have some. I hate how a lot of people in the fandom are extremely homophobic and/or transphobic. I hate how a significant chunk of the fandom ships Lloyd with the other Ninja, even though they’re all adults and 5-6 years older than Lloyd. I hate how a lot of those same people ship Nya with a man at least twice her age.

I hate how Morro is included in photosets of “all of the main ninja!!!!!” more often than Nya. I hate how some people in the fandom romanticize the way Morro abused Lloyd in S5. I hate how the entire fandom has a double standard when it comes to people who have done bad things: how if they’re young and conventionally attractive, they’re a ~smol pure bby~, and if they’re not, they’re the evilest scum to ever live.

I hate how nobody cares about the side characters. I hate how nobody acknowledges good friendships, only ships. And I hate how nobody thinks for themselves, thinks for even five seconds, before following along with whatever is popular.

The only reason I’ve stuck around this long - which will be five years in November - is because I’ve had just a bit of hope. A small, feeble hope - one that I could finally get a good ending, that I could finally be satisfied with the show. That I could finally watch the show because I want to watch it, not because I feel like I need to.

And that moment is finally so, so close - I can feel it in my bones. I’ve wanted to be able to escape for years, but I’ve never been able to; I’ve always been dragged back in. And now that freedom so close, that it’s almost here, I’m more afraid than ever that it’s all going to come crashing down.

And on top of that, I don’t really feel all that appreciated here. My meta posts get some attention, but only if they’re short. My music boxes get some attention, but Tumblr doesn’t let them show up in the tag, and thus they get far fewer notes than they really could/would. My fics get few reblogs and even fewer comments, because the “you should always reblog art and give good feedback to support the artist!!!!!!!” doesn’t apply for fanfic writers. And don’t even get me started on my theories, especially my Samurai X theory as of late; I put a lot of effort into those - to make sure that they’re hole-free, to make sure that they make sense, to make sure that they could possibly happen - and all I get is one or two comments from people who really appreciate the work I’ve put into it, and criticism from people who already have their minds set on whatever arbitrary explanation.

For all of these reasons, I really want to drop out of the fandom, or at least hibernate for a while. Most of the people from earlier in the fandom’s history - including lots of my friends - have moved on to other things at this point, mostly because they didn’t find it worthwhile to stick around. They’ve all been able to leave, but I’m still stuck here.

Which is why I’ve honestly resolved to drop out of the fandom after NS8. By that point, I’ll have gotten one of two things - either a good send-off for my favorite character, one that I’ve been waiting for for five years; or a final confirmation that this show no longer has anything to offer me. It doesn’t mean that I won’t like the show anymore, or that I’ll stop watching it - it’s just that there won’t be any reason for me to be active in the fandom, and thus I won’t do so as often.

So yeah.

[elizabethrobertajones]

Hi Lizzy, I'm new to the SPN fandom and saw a bunch of bibros making fun of meta writers. As a lowkey Destiel shipper it still pissed me off. I'm wondering- who are your fav meta writers to read?

Pfft, it’s practically a badge of honour that THEY are pissed off by the meta. Interpretation worries them because as soon as you get into the what they’d see as hippie dippy “all readings are valid uwu” part of literary theory, you’ve made an attempt to level the playing field with them and they don’t wanna be on it with us, they want to have the one sacred and true reading of the show to which all roads lead etc etc. Actually buying into the idea you can interpret the show and come up with multiple readings or that the text would DARE support another version (even the interpretation that Sam and Dean aren’t soulmates or something ship-free that gets in the way indirectly - or an argument they are soulmates but that’s basically just the show’s way of conveying Heaven is somehow worse than Hell for them :P) immediately is a threat to the idea of a cast iron version of the show that’s the one they latched onto. 

Strange world where “reading into things” is an insult instead of a sign of healthy curiosity and a desire to learn and understand. And I see people who literally mind their own corner or would agree in spirit with their interpretation as long as you CALL it that and leave others be to have a different one, get dogpiled by them for daring to treat the show as a flexible and multi-layered, analyse-able thing…

Ah well. 

Kinda missing out on the yearly punch up in the parking lot round the back of the fandom right now, tbh, since I’ve been AWOL with hanging around with family and friends stuff. Kinda not missing it. :P Welcome to the fandom, it can get pretty messy, and some of us here just wanna watch the show and ask silly questions to everyone about how many burgers Dean’s eaten on screen recently or whatever important character analysis nonsense is bothering us today.

To which end! :D 

No matter how long you have followed me, even if it’s like a day or 2, you must have noticed my queue endlessly spitting out @mittensmorgul‘s full-show rewatch along with the TNT loop, all out of order and a week late because that’s how I roll. Mittens is a great meta writer to read because everything she writes is fun and the kind of hectic idea hopping my brain glues with..

Everything @awed-frog writes is similarly enjoyable to read in that style but longer and more poetic and dark, and very insightful. (You might be able to tell I’m mentioning the meta writers I reblogged stuff from today while waiting for my long term memory to contribute anything)… Linking their ask tag for starters because idk how to find other long meta at short notice :P

Actually while I’m thinking about rewatches, I’ve always enjoyed @dustydreamsanddirtyscars‘s dramatic, purple prose essay approach to meta and flawless blog presentation… Sadly Jenny’s not enjoying season 12 very much with the change in style from the weird dark symbolism of Carver era, to the sort of fractals upon fractals of weird little emotional references and do-overs this year when Dabb gets to do his thing on a whole season, but if you want Carver era weird dark symbolism, I’ve been really enjoying where she has been lurking in Carver era, meta-ing her way through it. 

(I just generally dig reading re-watches, especially because all that hindsight is paying off so much now because for Dabb era if we’re going to meta it we NEED hindsight and reminders and the TNT loop playing in the background showing us just how layered and self-referential the show has become (and what it’s doing differently, and how much the characters have grown and changed, which, I think, is the point now) - anyway if you’re doing a rewatch, I LOVE to read posts about old episodes, especially the weird old MotW and really early seasons stuff no one seems to talk about much any more)

There’s a LOT of great meta writers out there and after every episode I try to find and reblog the long reaction notes, if they’re done it, from @dorkilysoulless @grey2510 @kayanem @bluestar86 (and awed frog again). @charlie-minion has been busy this season with other stuff as far as I know with a few more infrequent visits, but I know she has a page with every meta she wrote on it and generally wrote a great post per episode for a good chunk of the time I was in fandom, and still drops by fairly regularly despite a smaller presence. @thevioletcaptain also is great and has an episode reaction for most episodes (though again has been busy with IRL stuff for a few weeks/months/I have no concept of time but she hasn’t posted anything for the recent episodes as far as I’ve seen >.>) and also a page with her meta on it that when I was brand new to the fandom I had permanently open in another tab to cross-reference while I re-watched the show :P

(A lot of my favourite meta writers I imprinted on like a duckling when I was new and remember them really well but of course I love all the new people around here but my actual useful visual memories are all the fandom circa season 9 and not all around any more much, because my brain has been stewing in migraines and fatigue since, like, the middle of season 10, and my new approach is to wearily trudge through my dash barely checking who wrote what unless I have to deal with minuscule fonts on a read more, so I’m afraid my memory of active bloggers is totally rubbish and it’s best just to look at my awesome meta tag and see who I’ve been reblogging a lot lately and some really grevious oversights in people I will smack my head for not mentioning if you bring it up, but your question was phrased in such a way I went straight for who do I ENJOY reading not quick gimme a useful list with no explanation thing :P So uh, sorry if this is 100x longer than you expected :D)