i am genuinely a bit scared for my fellow bucktommies because with all the love eyes for bucktommy and tommy, i am not sure if people don't happily-ever-after too close to the sun with their expectations about how the bucktommy relationship will continue. 911 is still very much a drama show that will create drama out of thin air if it has to, oftentimes in ways that feel very dumb and will make the characters look very bad. we have seen in the past that resolutions are usually very lackluster, or sometimes even off screen. i personally really look forward to see buck and tommy, but i hope we all remember that buck AND tommy will fuck up at some point, and maybe even fuck up Bad. please be careful out there with how high you set your expectations, my fellow bucktommies, and don't forget that buck and tommy will have conflict again, with the others or with each other, sooner or later! (i hope it will be compelling and nuanced and interesting conflict that fuels their development, at the very least 🤞 but i also know that i am watching 911 so...)
so nonny, this isn't really directed at you, but i'm gonna use your ask as a springboard cause i'm seeing this sentiment pop up a lot
people need to stop conflating fanon actions with desires for canon
by this i mean, 99% of what i post about bucktommy, are things i never expect to happen in canon, and some of it quite honestly i would not want to happen in canon. i obviously can't speak for everyone, but most of the people i interact with are well aware that the characters on screen are not really the characters we're playing with in our sandbox.
and that's okay. that's how fandom is supposed to work. fandom is separate from the source material. we didn't used to need to post disclaimers about how no, we don't actually think this is going to happen. no, we don't actually think their relationship is going to be sunshine and roses. ppl in fiction act stupid cause sometimes the writer needs stupid to move the plot where they want. I, as a fan, can choose whether to incorporate said stupidity into my existing fanon, whether to analyze it to see how it could fit with my existing fanon, or whether to toss it out, baby and all.
part of the reason fandoms start is because we find the source material lacking. so honestly, when buck or tommy, or any characters, inevitably acts like a dick in a way that seems counter to their previous characterization, it's just more fodder for fandom, a new facet of their character that we then get to analyze and decide why they're doing it. well behaved women rarely make history and well behaved characters rarely make fandoms
so, just so it's clear, at least from me, unless I specifically state that this is what I think will happen in canon, everything I post about bucktommy, and basically all of my fandoms, is not even wishful thinking, it's just me playing with my dolls.
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I hate when people talk about Ashler like it’s inconceivable to ship them.
They’ll be like “Oh, they had so much beef, they’re barely even friends.” Genuinely asking here, have you even read the webtoon if you think that?
Tyler had issues with practically everyone at the beginning, hell, most of the kids didn’t even like each other. Ben, Aiden, Ashlyn, and Logan all thought he was a jerk and he was acting like one because he was trying to protect himself and Taylor and the whole situation was stressful as hell. That’s why his character development is so good. Even Ashlyn remarks that he’s being less of a jerk in one chapter and Taylor says that he's begun to see the others as real friends, maybe even family.
They all eventually became allies and then friends, including Ashlyn and Tyler. Sure, they like to throw some sarcastic remarks at each other but that’s just their sense of humour and part of the appeal of their friendship. Same with Aiden and Tyler, they insult each other all the time but the insults that were originally meant to hurt are now used affectionately.
He gave Ashlyn a nickname guys. He gave a jokey nickname to cheer her up because she felt terrible about the fact that she had to leave him behind while he got terribly hurt, while he died. She literally started crying out of guilt and being overwhelmed by the whole situation. She cares about him and he cares about her and the whole gang cares about each other, which is why there are so many ships in the fandom to begin with.
So stop acting like anyone who ships Ashler is stupid and stop saying ‘they’re like siblings’ on every post about them. We know it’s probably not gonna be canon, hell, Red herself said romance isn’t the focus of the webtoon at all.
I don’t even like shipping in general but the TikTok fandom keeps pissing me off. Stop acting like everyone has to ship the same things as you and stop commenting shit like ‘cute edit but I wish it was Aidlyn’ or ‘They’re just friends, they act like siblings’. Like yeah, they’re not canon but you’d have to be blind if you couldn’t see why some people ship it. Stop shitting on people’s ships and let them have their fun, we all know they’re not canon.
NONE OF THEM ARE.
Anyway, that’s the end of my rant. Sorry, I keep getting Ashler hate every time I search it up on TikTok. It’s so stupid and annoying, let people ship who they want in peace and stop undermining Ashlyn and Tyler's canon friendship and character development to shit on people’s ships. It’s an insult to the characters and your ability to read between the lines.
Live, Laugh, Love Ashler.
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Ok maybe kinda of a weird question you don't have to answer if you don't want to but I've seen some people saying that Chilchuck is canonically misogynistic so, as the Chilchuck especialist, do you have an opinion about that?
Anon you are brave and I love you.
Listen if you, person reading this, get peeved or upset when people say Chilchuck might have had not insignificant flaws as a father and husband then probably stop reading here, we will be looking at Chilchuck like a petri dish and defile his pristine allure.
Tldr: yes but actually no but really both at the same time aka people & social dynamics are complex and please let your blorbos be flawed. With that said I will be pretty casual and playful if that wasn’t clear already, sorry.
"Aren’t you happy to be in a harem party" "No it’s soul-crushing save me". Toshiro has been drinking his fear women juice since he was young, surrounded by an assassin nanny and her fellow assassin girlies, meanwhile Chilchuck having flashbacks of getting wrung out by his 4 women household…
Waiting on people is something we see he hates doing a couple times throughout canon and extras, here and how he says "it’s not a date" -bless his summer child heart- he frames being slow to get ready as a gendered trait to have? But I can forgive him for this one because honestly the framing of the whole page leans into that, it’s kinda questionable if we’re being highly critical of anything misogynistic or regressive. But it itself is the classic subversive "Women are desirable wallflowers— Wrong! They are a monstrous ruthless force that wears on the mind, body and soul" trope. I don’t fault Kui though I got giggles from it, it makes sense for everyone’s characters, and Kui has never shied from gendered dynamics in her worldbuilding & characters so it’s not like she’ll write as if sex changes nothing and no one has opinions about it.
Alright alright let’s step back from analyzing this page specifically and get back to the question, is Chilchuck canonically misogynistic? It’s a complex question not because we don’t have hints but because it’s a very black and white answer to give and because misogynistic can be very wide or pretty narrow depending on how the term is applied.
What I would say? Yes, he is, in a realistic way that doesn’t automatically make him a piece of shit, though that doesn’t mean it isn’t uncomfortable or harmful.
On the spectrum of misogyny he classifies to me as "It’s in the normalized lighthearted way of being a horny uncle who’s a little too loose about it around the dinner table", he’s a solid "He wants to treat women as pieces of meat and jokes about it but in actuality he’s a gentleman and a family careerman who has a job so he don’t really care about that rn".
Going back to Toshiro’s party, Chilchuck being weird about it being full of women doesn’t even happen only once but TWICE.
I made a compilation of every time he’s crass, happens less than you might expect but the overall picture it gives throughout reading the manga is pretty straightforward. Repeatedly he’s shown to be dirty-minded and objectify & sexualize women lightheartedly unprompted. They’re a punchline and they’re eye candy and it’s "of COURSE my succubus would be young women, of COURSE women would desire a muscled statue’s [redacted], of COURSE women are sexual beings and of course I am attracted to them".
Dungeon Meshi doesn’t bring up sexuality much and gendered dynamics tend to be more subtle than you’d expect from media in general, so there’s that, but I honestly struggle to think of any character that acts less normal about women existing than him. Like yeah he’s joking but Hien, Benichidori, Inutade and Maizuru were just breathing and doing their jobs. Who else’s misogynistic uhh, that guy working for the shadow governor that licks Cithis’ ear when she’s bound in ropes? The sheer jump from ‘makes demeaning jokes about women’ to ‘assaulter’ between these two, god.
Honestly it does feel odd to me that he’d be kinda demeaning like that about women even in a workplace setting —Chilchuck the union man out of everyone?— but Kui has spoken man idk, think what you will don’t shoot the messenger. It’s not like he’s weird about Namari? I guess he respects her too much- Wait that sounded wrong. Maybe it’s literally just because she and the other women party members are his direct coworkers, in line with his rule and all? But yeah, even if he canonically had a thing for blondes and pretty young women he has managed to only tease Marcille ceaselessly for fun & entertainment and make her hair extra shiny as his shapeshifter, you get a good behavior star there Chilchuck.
He complains on waiting for Marcille to get ready in the barometz chapter but he also does with Laios when he’s late to meet up the party in extras. He constantly pulls on Marcille to get her to safety as if she can’t protect herself but she’s referred to as clumsy a lot so he has that justified reasoning. He constantly berates everyone so no point to make there. He undermines Marcille’s opinions often but it’s because he dislikes mages and elves and idealism. Clearly Chilchuck knows women can be capable and clearly he can have women coworkers (and friends! Again, Namari) without belittling or sexualizing them, clearly he can be normal about women and knows that some of his attitude can be inappropriate. It’s just harmless fun to him, that he keeps for occasional playful banter and taverns and the ‘right’ moods.
And as I mentioned earlier! Chilchuck is also pretty gentlemanly and protective. As always desires vs wants and instinct vs rationality show up as themes. Yes his succubus aka his ideal, the deepest allure he can imagine, is beautiful naked women, but a chapter just before that was the bicorn, all about how faithful and virtuous he is, how his heart’s in the right place. His brain is virtuous but his heart is monkey.
My point is that when it counts, aka 90% of the time and when things are serious, we don’t see signs of sexist bias and he treats women well. Often takes on a protector role or at the least takes them seriously, even Benichidori. He doesn’t want to hurt women or thinks they’re insignificant or anything. He’ll give a handkerchief to a woman in need with a slimy face.
Okay okay this is really entering speculation territory but in my own tally, the way he dismissed his wife’s ‘bad mood’ as some meaningless tantrum that he shouldn’t think any more deeply about, him starting out not reaching out to her as a resentful silent treatment, and her getting dissatisfied in the first place enough to leave makes me think he took her for granted and was kinda dismissive of her in general. Marcille’s theorical scenario is hypothetical and factually untrue at least in parts, but if we do follow it, him forgetting he’s out with his wife for once (in the precious counted time he’s home spending time with her) and not paying attention to her all outing, resulting in her being left out of conversations and just an ornament beside him the way she might have felt for a long time as his housewife waiting home for him to come back………
Half-foots seem to be patriarchal. The last section of this essay’s chapter (not by me!) + combing through the half-foot chapter should give you insight on that if you want. It’s in their patronymic, it’s in the way marriage seems very important especially for women, and it’s in the implied gender roles, being a housewife whose life revolves around raising her husband’s kids and taling care of the family home waiting for her husband who’s out working to come back.
I think Chilchuck is a bit a result of his environment and upbringing in that way, that most of the misogyny is internalized and subconscious and passive, it’s taking his wife for granted because not only does she trust her, his most precious person he’s known since he was a kid, but because she’s his wife, his woman, conceptually something that’s unwaveringly devoted, something that is very valued and enforced in half-foot communities. Here’s a short post on half-foot family bonds culturally + here’s a post on marriage and half-foots for more.
The community aspect of half-foots is very strong, which makes sense especially for how empoverished and discriminated against they are, which does come at the expense of not unlike dwarves (dwarves which half-foots idolize) having more pressure to fit in and have a good reputation to not be cast out and have no support lines. By being scared and needing stability people will often be more conservative, etc etc, though the reverse is also often true, like Chilchuck with his union. But yes Chilchuck seems to have many biases he clings onto, harsh on especially Marcille and Laios, Marcille for her idealism, race and magic meanwhile Laios for his lack of social skills and ‘reckless’ behavior.
He also does the classic "Don’t you dare date my daughter!!", though it’s a bit up in the air because he only gets agitated about coworkers being suitors, not nearly as hostile to the idea when it’s some nameless dwarf. But y’know when a guy assumes every men is as horny and sleazy as they are so they’re like "never trust men"… Chilchuck does embody a lot the tropes of just, the everyday flawed middle aged man. The absentee father and careerman husband who does care despite it all. Disillusioned grumpy old man. Old divorced drunkard joe with a thing for cute young blonde women, as a friend put it.
We know Kui subverses tropes a lot, I definitely think Kui leans into these if nothing else for the bit. He’s tropes of the strict family Father, man doing inappropriate jokes around a beer with his drinking buddies, working man exhausted and frustrated by his job, midlife crisis. Also because of how he acts with Marcille, I always say he’s the boy on the playground pulling on the pigtails of his girl friend bc he thinks it’s funny. Because he thinks she’s pretty.
So point blank, Chilchuck respects women as individuals but he can get a little lost in the sauce when thinking about women in general and jumps to sexualizing them in ways that can be objectifying and dismissive. Casual lowkey misogyny for the bit that may or may not slip into non-jokes as well sometimes when it comes to seeing women as something inherently to defend or take for granted, though he’s well-meaning. He engages in gender roles of "men should be strong and burly" and "daughters should listen to their fathers’ opinion before dating a guy". A guy engaging in patriarchy without thinking much of it y’know, more or less passive and unaware. He’s good in economic and human rights issues but would not win the political correctness medal (though he does care about optics and is very conscious of appearing as upstanding and innocent with the elves or Toshiro’s and Kabru’s parties to avoid getting thrown in jail. Overcompensating for half-foot criminal reputations etc etc. Post on that here).
Do I believe Chilchuck would march for women’s rights? Yes. Do I believe he would make ‘ye old ball and chain’ and ‘my wife’ and ‘ah women’ jokes? Yes. Do I believe he would punch anyone making one such jokes about his wife or daughters? Yes.
I was pretty flippant bc honestly Chilchuck the Sleazy Horny Old Man is hilarious to me but yes hopefully the post was decent. "How could I be sexist? I love bitches"
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I will say this one more thing about this: I do not believe the other try guys (or even many people at 2nd try) knew Ned was cheating before they found out sometime earlier this month. Not because I have some blind faith in the other guys to be good ppl (imagine saying ‘‘he would never’‘ when someone you might have said that about literally just did smth horrible), but because:
- knowing he is cheating and hiding it/keeping him on would be an absolutely ridiculously stupid thing to do and I think they’re smarter than that. Because with how well known they are, that’s a ticking time bomb until someone will snap an incriminating picture in public and if it then comes out you’ve known and protected him? That’s your image of wholesome, good guys absolutely destroyed.
- all the claims that they did know for months or years, that i’ve seen came from random twitter or reddit accounts or were even entirely anonymous. That’s not evidence. That’s some random person saying some random shit
- they were already cutting him out of videos before the video was leaked. Meaning they were already preparing to cut ties with him regardless of whether the fact he was cheating came out or not so ‘‘oh they just have to fire him now bc it got out’‘ doesn’t really make sense.
- if him cheating was somehow an ‘‘open secret that the entire company knew’‘ it wouldn’t stay secret long. Nothing ever does if a lot of people know about it . You ever try to plan a surprise party for someone without someone tattling? This is this except tattling would seem like the more moral option to many ppl and make it even more likely that someone tells so again hiding it in that case is just a stupid strategy even with NDAs (bc your employee could leave instead of signing said nda or they could just hide their tracks well while leaking smth)
Now I will believe that they quite possibly weren’t planning on telling the public why they got rid of Ned, both to protect Ariel and others from harrassment and to protect their own image - any dirt on Ned also harms them bc if one of the wholesome good guys isn’t actually all that, maybe the others aren’t either. If the video wasn’t leaked I imagine they’d have been vague or said it was for personal reasons or whatever, but they still would have seperated from Ned.
I also think like.... listen, you can know your friend has flaws and maybe sometimes flirts too much when he’s drunk or sometimes says inappropriate shit and you can forgive him that and still be friends with him and try to push him in a better direction, you can do all that and never suspect he might be cheating. Because there’s a big jump from one to the other and we always see the best in the people we love. It’s easy to say in retrospect that it was obvious but shit like this is never obvious. You don’t suspect your friends of being capable of that stuff unless it’s pushed right in your face
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