#I have a lot of thoughts about gale

[waaterdeep]

It’s heartbreaking to me how easily Gale abandons his plans of becoming a god when you romance him, because it shows that he never actually wanted to become a god in the first place.

When you ask him how he’s feeling after discovering the crown of Karsus he tells you that he’s excited about what the crown could do to improve both of your lives. His plans aren’t clear but it’s obvious that he wants to use it for himself. Of course there’s some selfishness there, perhaps a desire to get back at Mystra, but there’s a good part of him that sees this as a way to impress you, to become worthy of you.

But to convince him to let go of the crown in Act 3 you simply need to tell him that he matters, that you love him for the man that he is not the god he wants to be. You need to convince him that he’s always been enough and that he always will be, so long as he stays true to who he is. And with high approval he accepts this without question. While he feels uncertain about putting all of his faith into one person, he’s still relieved and happy to do so.

You have opportunities before the Outer Planes scene to tell him that you care about him, most notably in Act 2, when you can tell him that you want to spend the night with Gale the man, that you don’t need him to wow you with cosmic sex. While this clearly means a lot to him it doesn’t translate as “I am exactly all that this person needs” in his mind yet.

But when you have the Outer Planes scene and he tells you of his plans, if you gently bring him back down to earth, kiss him and tell him he’s perfect, he’s wholly convinced. While Tara might have told him many times some variation of this, you are the first person, and most importantly the first lover, to tell him and show him. The fact that you met him with diminished powers and the Netherese orb and still fell in love with him speaks volumes.

It shows that his ambitions are not born from hubris, rather, from a profound insecurity that could only be the product of his defining of his life, his value, in relation to the literal goddess of magic and, obviously, falling short. Conjuring visions of Waterdeep and the Outer Planes, it’s all his way to convince you that he’s worthy of your affections, you who in most cases cannot do that at all. But he bases his worth completely upon his magical abilities, it’s no surprise then that magnifying them to infinite proportions is his way to remove his fear of losing you, since his greatest weakness, his humanity, is what drove his previous lover away from him.

And that’s absolutely heartbreaking.

[heph]

Food - More than Sustenance

[a2zillustration]

:)

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[printed-paws]

Presenting final girl billy loomis

Is this anything?

[forcedhesitation]

astarion origin playthrough worth it just for all the extra moments where he does the "sad wet cat" face

[messiahzzz]

the IGN article has already been addressed by several users, but imo the points of critique raised by others were still often misinterpreted, or ignored entirely.

— so i’d like to talk about it.

beforehand, it is important to mention that it remains everyone’s respective responsibility to curate their own online experience. you shouldn’t purposefully expose yourself to topics that cause you distress or trigger you. however, general discussion should always be valid and welcomed. you have every right to voice your opinion on the matter and to be upset about this. please don’t feel guilty about venting and expressing your emotional response.

we also need to differentiate this specific interview from the fandom’s overall treatment and interpretation of gale. several of the posts i’ve seen on the subject tend to derail into the latter, without addressing the valid points many have raised or glossing over them entirely. this isn’t about the usual “haha gale eats shoes” joke or whatever new meme fandom comes up with. this is solely about the developer’s treatment of gale, the character, and about a specific, internal bias that has been prevalent throughout the entirety of the game, as well as their social media. this particular interview merely adding to the amalgamation of points mentioned.

yes, it is certainly unrealistic to expect larian to address every single companion in detail and to touch on every nuance possible, in an interview that broadly focuses on the game’s narrative and gameplay. there are, however, specific character sections. each companion received a headline that was reflective of their overall character archetype or provided quick insight into their development.

Karlach: 'The Labrador of the Party'

Lae'zel: 'She's So Young'

Halsin: 'A Creative Risk'

Shadowheart: 'The Jason Bourne'

Wyll: 'We Lost a Little Bit of Narrative Room'

Astarion: 'Much of What He Does Is Out of Fear'

Minthara: 'It's Not a Redemption Arc...But She's Got a Lot of Love'

and last but not least:

Gale: 'The Guy Who Starts Off Annoying Everyone'

what followed was a brief discussion about their respective storylines, each being addressed with a certain level of respect, empathy, and consideration. except for gale. all that was mentioned in regard to his character was the narrative impact of gale’s suicide. talking about the overall logistics of this ending, the visuals of the cutscene, and how, to them, his sacrifice felt like the right ending and how in many ways, it is.

Chrystal Ding, Lead Writer: On a very human level, you have the guy who starts off annoying everyone, he's constantly asking you to give him your most treasured possessions to eat, otherwise he's in trouble, and at the end, he gives himself for the world. Sven Vincke, Founder: And he had the choice already once before where he wasn't ready for it. So it's a very powerful ending, and it comes in different permutations.

gale is the character who is initially annoying companions and players alike. he is verbose, enthusiastic and has a tendency to break out in long-winded rants. he repeatedly asks for your assistance, to help him manage his condition. to spare himself and his surroundings from an untimely, explosive death, he must consume items that you’ve carefully collected. gale is, essentially, a liability. a ticking time bomb. he already had the option to have his life be a meaningful sacrifice, but he wasn’t ready to die yet. now, that the party has reached the end, he has another chance to give himself up for the world.

short after, gale’s section of the interview quickly diverts into a more general discussion about the difficulties of playing as a wizard and other classes.

larian claiming that there is a universal “right ending” in a game with many branching paths and choices very much contradicts the definition of a role-playing game. where it is solely in the player’s hands to decide what direction to take and what outcome they deem to be the right one. moreover, it is important to remember that the interviewees weren’t just any developers, but consisted of two lead writers and larian’s founder himself. some of them industry veterans who are, to an extent, pr-trained. we all know that fandom often sees statements from developers synonymous with word of god. as such, the implications and impact are truly unfortunate.

if larian was referring the SA survivor and stated that “the right ending” for him was to return him to enslavement or to hand him over to the gur. that for all the death and misery he (involuntarily) assisted, his sacrifice would at least grand them a slither of justice.

astarion caused death, perpetuated racism, and now that you have handed him over to the gur hunter, he is offered a chance to give himself back to the world.

it is then deemed the right choice for him because it is the most narratively satisfying/impactful/powerful outcome in the context of the overall story. the majority of us would agree that such would be a rather tactless statement, no? not specifically for mentioning it in relation to astarion as a character or his influence on the narrative — he is fictional, after all, but because of the real-life implications and the very real stigma the affected face. we can't deny that it would be hurtful to irl victims. maybe we would even fault the writing altogether for such biases. after all, why should astarion be the only character whose redemption and healing are considered to be significantly less important in the grand scheme of things?

fiction functions as an abstraction and simulation of our social experience. we are supposed to get invested, to explore the meaning, examine the parallels, or maybe just to enjoy stories for the sole purpose of indulging in the occasional escapism. perhaps a way to temporarily forget about one’s limitations and the prejudices we face. in many ways, chronic pain/impairment, suicidal ideation, and autistic traits appear to be disorders & symptoms that are perhaps less relatable to some, and that they are maybe not as sympathetic to.

it truly would’ve been nice to see larian approach this interview with more professionalism. opting for a simple, diplomatic “actually, there is no right ending. the sheer variation in choices makes such a distinction impossible” would’ve more than sufficed.

this isn’t asking for larian to touch on every nuance possible, in an interview that largely resembled the flow of a regular conversation. it’s about asking for the same level of consideration and care that was granted to the rest of the companions. it’s about addressing gale’s particular brand of trauma with the same level of basic human decency. maybe we even could’ve received some new bits and pieces of insight on gale’s development, rather than the regurgitation of every shallow reddit/tiktok take we’ve seen up to this point. alas..

[mendellyill]

Baldurs gate 3 spoilers about gale (and rolan kinda) under the cut

If you take gale and karlach with you to the counting house in the lower city, they have a conversation about how neither of them have ever had much money and I find that for gale, that provides some fascinating context for his life.

How much did his mother sacrifice to send him to university? Of course hes a mama's boy, getting him into magic college was probably her main priority for most of his childhood. How difficult was it for him to get learning materials? Gale loves libraries, which is a standard nerdy thing but as a kid whose family might not have been able to afford the books he needed to learn about magic? Libraries would have been his one connection to the world of magic. Every scrap of magical material would have been precious and hard won.

Mystras attention would probably have been absolutely life changing for him. If he doesn't have a fortune to fall back on, like lorroakan, having the attention of the literal embodiment of the weave is probably the only way he was ever going to get anywhere in his field. Speaking as someone who works in academia, it doesn't matter how smart you are if you can't get funding. Their relationship is already deeply one sided, but man if gale feels like his opportunities for success are because of her? Fuck.

We see a sort of similar (please for the love of God bear with me) situation with lorroakan and rolan. Rolans poor, reasonably talented, and loves magic more than almost anything besides his family. He was, up until the enslaving dame Aylin plan, willing to put up with lorroakans abuse and whims because he wanted to be a wizard so bad. Now gale has several in universe advantages compared with rolans situation, but it's clear that the Wizarding profession is not a profession you can easily get into if you don't have funds or a very rich patron.

Not really sure where I'm going with this. I saw a post about gale joking about how his tower was never cleaner than after he lost the orb and I just. For a kid who grew up in a low income situation, his tower is 100% a point of pride and something he identifies with very strongly. To have had to literally devour his tower to stay alive, to have had to literally destroy everything in the life he built for himself as a result of the orb. That must have been horrifying for him.

[galedekarios]

The people going "it's not a big deal" confuse me. What other character gets shit on by everyone unwarranted and unprompted? What other character is told to not be themselves, because that would be terrible advice for them specifically? None of the devs or writers say that Astarion should be handed over to the Gur hunter and killed by them because as a vampire he's a monster anyway and this way it's a good end and he won't hurt anyone anymore. Lae'zel is brutal and aggressive, but instead of going "haha yeah isn't that so annoying, boo 👎" the devs defend her and say that audiences would not be saying that if she was a man instead. Shadowheart always has something to say, too, about Shar and Selune, and other things, but they don't call her annoying about her religion. Astarion can feed on PC and give you a negative buff, but that's fine. Gale needs a trivial color spray trinket, one of only three(!!) trinkets, and god he's just the worst. And that isn't even the end of it, that's just where I'm choosing to stop this already long message. After a certain point, if the ONLY place where Gale doesn't get shit on is when you're talking to him directly and choosing the nice options, then yeah I feel like there's a problem behind the scenes there. Especially when his story is about forgiveness, belief that you're enough, allowing yourself to love and be loved again, accepting and asking for help, and learning that you deserve to live, but the devs say that an ending where all of that is thrown away and even after telling him that he's enough you still have him sacrifice himself is good... then it's like what would have to happen for people to realize that Gale is treated differently than the rest? And what do they have to say for others to realize that they're going against their anti-suicide message? Because I don't get it. Is the world going to end? No. But that doesn't mean this isn't weird and hurtful. Escaping the cycle of abuse and becoming better is great is the basis of their game, unless your name is Gale.

i really have nothing to add here.

[rexcaliburechoes]

gale is ambition, so he has both crippling self doubt and debilitating pride in his work.

gale is ambition, so if a character tries to undermine him by one-upping him, he'll think he's not nothing left. more else can the orb destroy that it hasn't already?

gale is ambition, so if a character tries to undermine him by one-upping him, he'll vehemently deny that. he's the wizard of waterdeep. he was mystra's chosen. he was her lover. who could be any better than that?

gale is ambition. it's his greatest flaw and his greatest asset.

[alienoresimagines]

So hard to brainstorm an AU in secrecy because all I want is to talk about it with y'all here 😭

[jb-nonsense]

Personal headcanons for Gale I use when writing, willing to share with others as usual. This is just a bullet point list with me throwing out some basic ideas, to maybe expand in the future.

He is around 39 years old during the game

Mystra returned to the Forgotten Realms in 1479 DR and current year is 1492 DR.

Gale would've been born around 1453 DR and then would've been around 26 when Mystra returned.

He would not start a romantic relationship with Mystra until he's around 29 years old.

He would have started under her tutelage, though, shortly after her return as he had, by that time, already learned quite a bit that he could from mortal studies.

Gale was "popular" and social due to his ability in magic and being a wizard prodigy. People hung out with him to hopefully get some of that to rub off on them and magic is how Gale knew to make connections. They all, of course, abandoned him when he fell from grace.

When he was younger and showing off/trying to impress for his "friends," he could really be insufferable.

He is a middle child, with me discussing my ideas for his siblings in this post

His father was a sorcerer, and I went a bit more into it in this first post discussing possible siblings

More to add when I decide to, of course, but this is just to give background for when I write him in my stories.

[myheartismadeofstars]

Deeply annoyed that I always fall in love with games I can't fucking play 😭

After months of avoiding it I ended up in a DnD Hyperfixation and wanting to play Baldur's Gate 3 and now I'm an Astarion simp

Really doesn't help that I have an OC/intended DnD PC that I think would get along with him well (especially since her brother is a vampire and that is LITERALLY the reason for her adventure!) so I'd base my Tav off her even if her story is different (and lbr I'd write fanfic of her as her og self lol)

I wanna play but I have no ability to 😭

(btw my other favourite characters are Karlach, Gale and... probably Minsc? But of course I can't have both Gale and Astarion 🙄 how do y'all cope with monogamy in this game???)

[sophiasharp]

It’s probably because of how deeply tied to their identities the Tadfools’ backstories are (and also how the fuck does Tav fit into anything) but I’m kinda surprised by how I haven’t seen much, if any, role-swap stories for Baldur’s Gate yet. Which is a shame cause I think there could be a lot of potential there, cause none of these guys would respond to each other’s circumstances the exact same way.

Think of a noble-borne Astarion, who might not have been the best person but still would give anything to see the city he loves safe. This time, it is not infernal machinations that threatens Baldur’s Gate, but the long-standing rot of the Faewild that promises to bring about its ruin. The binding of his mortal soul is made all the more bitter by his family’s formal disowning of a child who conspires with the Fae. Making himself into a hero is not done out of a genuine selflessness but out of a necessity to try and reap SOME reward out of sacrifice, to make it MEAN something other than losing all he once knew.

Think of Lae’zel, stolen from Selune’s Tears during a Githyanki training mission and brought up in the Sharran cloister, damned to forget herself while always and forever remaining OTHER compared to the rest of the acolytes. Shar bids one live their lives in the shadow, but she figures one must sometimes bring the shadows forward more forcefully if they are to further their cause. As a war cleric, she promises to become the sword-arm to the Nightsinger that might one day banish the light for good. And yet, she still wonders some days where she comes from and why her hand sometimes burns so fiercely.

Think of a young, bright-eyed, and curious Karlach, raised on tales of swords and sorcery, who more than anything wants to become one of those heroes one day. She wants to be the next Elminster, or Tasha, or Mordenkainen- no, she wants to be BETTER than them, to outshine even the greatest of spellcasters and use her power to protect those she loves. Mystra sees her determination and feeds it, letting her enthusiasm grow to obsession as she gets older, leaving behind her friends and family in favor of her greatest passion incarnate. But it’s not enough. How could it ever be, when the woman who claims to love her, the one she’s built her life around, continues to hold true mastery of the arcane just out of her grasp? Surely there is some way she can prove her worth. Surely, with her Goddess’s favor and her own deft hand at Abjuration, she will be able to gift Mystra the one thing she wasn’t able to take on her own.

Think of a Gale, a scrappy young man with so much arcane potential and yet none of the money necessary to have it be honed properly. Still, mouths must be fed, and so he pushes himself to become stronger, strong enough to support his single mother in the City of Splendor. Indeed, he grows strong enough to catch the attention of an up-and-coming politician from Baldur’s Gate who may have some shady dealings on the side, but the money was good enough for him to look the other way. Just as long as he could keep sending money back to Waterdeep, he didn’t care much what his boss did. Until, one day, everything changed. He was sent to the hells, his heart ripped out of his own chest and replaced with a searing hot contraption that threatened to burn him from the inside out. Ten years he spends down there, fighting a war he never signed up for, and a rage begins to take form. Through his anger, the magic inside him finally finds a conduit, wild enough to let him survive through everything.

Think of Jenevelle, kidnapped during her Selunite rite of passage by mindflayers and later “saved” by Githyanki raiders. She is offered the chance to prove herself more than a slave, and grabs on with both hands. She trains among them, fighting not only to survive but to be the BEST at it, to justify her existence amongst their ranks. By the time she is grown, her past life is but a distant, painful memory. She earns the title of Shadowheart, her mettle as cold and furious as the dark side of the moon. For her own safety, she can never let herself stop fighting to be better. She will become Vlakith’s champion if that’s what it takes for her to finally, finally be enough.

Think of a Wyll Ravengard born two centuries earlier, nearly killed and left for dead by one of his father’s political rivals when a cold hand offers eternal salvation. Later, he wishes he had perished in the alley as intended. He spends years, decades hoping that his father and the rest of the flaming fist would find him, only to be crushed when rescue from his living hell never comes. He outlives all that would have known the face of Grand Duke Ravengard’s late son, becomes a ghost of himself as he learns how to lead countless to their deaths in the hopes of saving his own skin from more pain. And yet, somewhere deep inside him, there lays a part of him that still holds hope for the happily ever afters of the old stories he clings to despite everything he’s gone through. By day, he sharpens his claws, remembers his training from before his life was thrown away, re-teaches himself how to strike hard and fast before anyone can react, and bides his time. Maybe, just maybe, the gods would give him the chance to be his own hero. The monster and the hunter both.

[doomednarrative]

But think of what I offer! The vastness of eternity at our fingertips, the Weave to explore...you would really prefer me as I am?

[pink-wysteria]

more people need to talk about how

1. Gale thinks the world is better off without him in it.

He thinks the mistake he made was so monumental that it's not even worth him being alive anymore. He thinks that if he does as Mystra asks and blows himself up to kill the elder brain, then at least his folly would amount to something. He's lived for a year in darkness and isolation and convinced himself that the only way to move forward is by somehow regaining his goddess's favour, and if he can't do that then he's not worth the air he breathes. He wants so desperately to matter, to mean something, that he's willing to throw his whole life away to garner even a fraction of the love Mystra used to bestow upon him. He's a brilliant man, an incredible wizard, kind-hearted, and trying so damn hard to do the right thing, but somehow he fails to see all those qualities and puts his worth solely on a single mistake he made that he made out of love. Out of ambition and out of desire, but ultimately out of love. And now, after spending months in self-imposed isolation, the only future he sees for this world is one where he's not in it. And,

2. That he doesn't think he's worthy of Tav. He doesn't believe that anyone can love him as he is, no matter how often Tav tries to convince him otherwise. If a literal god deemed him unworthy, then who is he to claim he isn't? He finds the ability to love again with Tav, starts the slow and excruciating journey of healing together with them, but somewhere in the back of his mind, he still believes he's not good enough. He wants to be more. He wants to be everything that Tav wants him to be. He wants to be everything Tav needs him to be. He wants to prove to them that he can be a good fighter, a good lover, a good friend. That's why he asks again and again if they wouldn't love him better if he were a god. If he was perfect - truly perfect. If he could command armies and fell kingdoms, if he could give them everything they could ever dream of. Wouldn't Tav want that? Why would they want his battered, broken, mortal self when they could have a perfected version of him? What beauty is there in failure, in making mistakes, in being flawed? Even when Tav insists that they love him for who he is, not for the power he would wield, he struggles to accept it. He trusts that they're telling the truth, but he's been a wizard of renown for so long that he doesn't quite know how to be a regular man any more. His whole notion of worth has been tied so tightly with power and control for so long that he's forgotten what it is like to be loved simply for being who he is. Not the Wizard of Waterdeep. Not Mystra's Chosen. But a man, wandering in the dark like everyone else, afraid, but so full of hope.

[recitedemise]

𝗚𝗮𝗹𝗲 𝗵𝗮𝘀 𝗱𝗲𝗰𝗮𝗱𝗲𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗲𝘅𝗽𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝗶𝗻 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗵𝗶𝗺𝘀𝗲𝗹𝗳 𝘄𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗵𝗲 𝗵𝗼𝗽𝗲𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗱𝗶𝗴𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗯𝗹𝗲. Even as a child, Gale struggled to find steadfast friends. He had rambled too much, was a prodigious student among overly envious wizard boys, and honestly, to make sure he kept in the good graces of most, he, with some practice, hammered a mold. He didn't wear a mask, of course, more leaning on concealing his more 'unsavory' quirks, but it was not unlike walking like just half of he was--offering, essentially, the more 'palatable' parts. He was proud, sure, riling his share of more insecure peers, but he was good at magic, obnoxiously good, and in time, people weathered that pride to essentially ride his coattails. As Mystra's chosen, however, that doubled in force. He learned to hide himself, learned he was loved exclusively for magic. He made more friends among those lonely evenings in his tower, growing familiar with the voice of long dead authors and finding, of course, fulfillment in words. In fact, his idea of romance comes largely from words. It's partly why when smitten, he's such traditional ideas. He's not socially inept, mind you, but many of his thoughts come taken from stories, and if asked, he'd admit to having his heart steeped a touch in romanticism--though age, blessedly, has tempered the naive.

With the orb, unfortunately, he learned to quell himself only further. Gale could only feel so much, a terrible weight for a man who longs most to be seen and heard. Again, he'd further stemmed his excitements, his babbling passions and the stars in his eyes, and even despair and heartache were halved or quartered, or else, of course, the orb would burst. Now, he's learned not to be burden, that on top of being something half of himself. Suddenly, Gale being Gale wasn't just halfway a nuisance, but Gale being Gale could be more than inconvenient--Gale of Waterdeep is now plainly catastrophic.

Gale doesn't exactly hate himself, but it's hard for him to think anyone would like him for him. He's so starved to show himself just as he is--and it's partly why he rushes to give himself over completely when the moment's right.