#I hate the term queerbaiting

[inawickedlittletown]

No Queerbaiting Here

A long time ago…I’m talking May of 2021, I wrote a meta post about queerbaiting. Essentially an essay. I wrote it right before the S4 finale of 9-1-1 aired because I was frustrated by Buddie fans calling Queerbait entirely like the boy that cried wolf. I still stand by it. Sort of. 

Now, even back then I was pretty clear about how 50/50 I was on Buddie ever going canon. (Maybe not in that post but certainly elsewhere) But, I shipped Buddie then and wrote a lot of fic and meta and participated in fandom. I never said it couldn’t happen…I just would never be bothered if it didn’t.

Where we stand now: It’s not going to happen. 

And where I stand now: fully immersed in Bucktommy. And what’s more, I am more than perfectly happy about Buck and Tommy staying together and going the long-run. Although I can still look at Buddie and think it’s a cute ship, I just don’t want it in canon. I would not be satisfied if the show went that way. But what’s more if Buck and Tommy don’t work out, that would be disappointing, but I’d be okay as long as they got to be happy. There is, after all, always fanfiction. 

So, I wanted to revisit this concept a bit now that Buck has been confirmed as Bisexual and now that he is in a relationship with a man. Not Eddie. Tommy. And somehow, some Buddie fans are still crying queerbait because their ship is not canon. That’s not how it works. Also…shipping works outside of canon, that’s the whole point of shipping. 

To reiterate from my original post on queerbaiting, here’s the definition from wikipedia:

“Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation. They do so to attract a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers.” 

Here’s where I stand: Buddie was abandoned a long time ago. If it was ever a real possibility, we won’t ever know. What we do know is that Oliver was aware that at one point he had given them the go-ahead to make Buck Bi. Whether this was by putting Buck and Eddie together or having Buck realize this another way, we just don’t know that. We don’t have that information and nor will it probably ever be provided to us. Narratively, I know that a lot of fans figured the timing of it fit with S4 and that particular finale but we really just don’t know despite what happened in the finale.

I found that interesting looking back at my own post from back then and the discussion that followed where some fans felt that the way the finale went would determine if Buddie would be another queerbait ship. (I think most people agreed after the will scene that it wasn’t queerbait because it did leave a kernel of hope that Buddie might still happen). 

And yeah, I guess you could argue that the network deciding not to go the route of a queer storyline points to missed opportunity. That doesn’t then mean that any queerbaiting occurred or that any fans are owed anything just because something that was set up or that the writers were writing towards was then scrapped by the network. Is it a shame that it didn’t happen in whatever way they wanted to play it out, sure, but only because Buck would have been confirmed queer earlier. In the same vein isn’t it nice that we have a confirmed Bisexual Buck now? That the show managed to bring it back to that.

A Buck that is happy and free and that has realized something so monumental about himself? Isn’t it nice that all the queer coding that Buck as a character has received since the start of the show is actually finally not just queer coding but full on character development? That we can look back at the show and see all the things Buck did around other men for exactly what they were. 

When Tommy first returned to 9-1-1 in S7, I think a lot of us were excited by the spoilers about Buck and Tommy because of Bi Buck, but also because this was the thing that could lead to Buddie. 

And then…then Tommy was actually on my screen and I doubted it. I actually thought maybe the spoilers were wrong and this was about Eddie and Tommy? That episode flipped things in such an expertly way that by the time Tommy and Buck were sharing a kiss for the first time I was right there with Buck. On a second watch, it is all there. Buck was never jealous because his friend was ignoring him. He was jealous because his best friend had the attention of the guy whose attention he wanted for himself. The writing on that was perfect and no amount of twisting it can change what happened on screen. 

Buck was not jealous because of Eddie. Tommy was never interested in more than friendship with Eddie. And Buck and Tommy have nothing to do with Buddie. Tommy is not a stepping stone, a way for Buck to be ready to then embark on a relationship with Eddie. That’s both disrespectful to Tommy and Buck, but just not what the story being told on the show is doing. 

The storyline is monumental. Having a big strong guy, a firefighter, figure out his sexuality in his thirties is such good storytelling and add to that Tommy. Someone that we already know, who already works as a first responder, and who can show up and wow Buck in such a way that he realizes something about himself? This is what I’ve always wanted. Because guess what, Buck never questioned his sexuality before this. Not when he met Eddie and not when he met anyone else, not until Tommy. 

Going into the new season we know a few things and one of those is that Buck and Tommy are thriving. The media coverage talks about them as a solid couple, it talks about Buck having someone to turn to and complain to. It talks about how they are still in the getting to know each other phase and I love that for them. I love how they are being treated and described and I can’t wait to see what plays out for them and how much of the build up of their relationship we may get to actually see. 

Do you know what the media and the show never talked about outwardly like this? Buddie. Whenever it came up it was always brushed aside in a way that was respectful to fans and what they saw, but without ever confirming or hinting that the show would ever go there. They never queerbaited anyone with Buddie, what they have done is say “yeah…we know what you see” and then turned around and given us a Buck and Eddie friendship and Buck kissing Tommy, going on a date with Tommy, and thriving with Tommy. 

So, no queerbaiting here on the show where half of the major canon pairings are queer. It’s actually more like some fans baiting other fans with theories and headcanons that just don’t fit.

[italianpersonwithashippersheart]

You know what bugs me about the 911 - buddie situation? It didn't have to be like this. All they showrunners had to was deny it. Tim should have said in that stupid interview after season 2, that it wasn't going to happen, the next showrunner should have told the cast to refuse to answer question about buddie, or maybe said something along the lines of, "well maybe in a different universe it might have happen" or even a joke about how "unfortunately they are straight, lol". All the way back in s2 and s3. That is it. That is all they had to do.

But they didn't. They knew the buddie fandom was getting more prominent, so they stayed vague hoping to keep them around. Meanwhile, they have half the writers and other crew memebers putting pile of subtext into buddie's relationship. And then force these same writers to write these rushed underbaked women to throw at them in the hopes that people just forget about buddie. And when that doesn't happen they write the character off.

I don't think I can do this to myself anymore. It's not about them becoming canon, I enjoy the memes and the meta but I have not believed that buddie would actually be canon in a while. What I can't do anymore is sit through another half baked rushed relationship with random side characters they have little to no chemistry with, while the show lie to me about how good of a relationship it is only for them to inevitably break it off when the fans aren't into it.

It's what happen with Shannon, with Ali, with Taylor, it's what Lena was probably initially there for, It's definately why they got rid of Lucy after trying so hard to have her in the season and the team, it's what happen with Ana.

I don't enjoy these storylines. I know the writers can do better, which means they are obviously not into it either. Or they'd be better at this. I don't find these stories entertaining.

The people in charge of this show need to get their act together and decide the fate of buddie, and if that fate is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN then they need to force their staff to stop writing all that damn subtext and put some effort into their "real" romantic relationship. They also need to accept the fact that is going to make the fans unhappy, and that some of them will stop watching.

Because you know what, they wrote themelves into this damn corner. And now it's too late. They fucked up. There is no woman that will make a better romantic partner in the eyes of the fans, it's too late, even if they manage to write this super well (which I doubt, given what we already saw) the fans are not going to be happy about it. It's too late. You should have spoken up sooner.

They can't have their cake and eat it too.

[elek-tavor]

i think it's so silly when people are like "don't call it queerbating when the show isn't over yet!". it's been going on for 6 years. it might go on for however many years more. every single case of queerbating that you have ever heard of has been called out in the process of the media coming out. queerbating only works when the media is not yet done. literally. the potential for a queer story is what drives it. calling it queerbating in retrospective is just pointing out the obvious when the creators have already profited off of the queer community and when everything they wanted to do by queerbating they have already done. it's like watching a disaster about to happen and saying "no no, let's not try to prevent it, it might not be happening, let's wait until it definitively happens and then we can talk". like please.

[emcads]

putting “queerbaiting” up on the shelf and taking down josé esteban muñoz’s disidentification essay for everyone to read.

[mybrainproblems]

the thing is?! they just don't do romances the way they used to! you can't do it when you've only got 1-2 seasons!! and they just don't queerbait/code like they used to either!!

but the fucking thing is! yes. we have actual queer rep now and i just do not give a fuck. where's the heartache of knowing it's never gonna happen? seeing it on your screen in front of your salad and you know it's never gonna be confirmed but god help me, it is compelling. and it's always more compelling than the het romances bc you can't make it explicit. you dare the fuck not to speak it's name for the sake of ratings.

oh i am sick. i am so sick.

[epiphanybuddie]

boo the finale of this stupid weewoo show i hate myself

[neil-gaiman]

hey mr gaiman. i saw that this post got revisited and wanted to address it.

i submitted this ask over a year ago on my old account and it was one of the stupidest things i ever did. it was my first tumblr account. id only been really online for a few weeks. i was 13. i was just coming back to school after a global pandemic.

ive been a fan of good omens for years and a fan of yours for longer. i was brought up reading odd and the frost giants and fortunately the milk, and as i got older i fell in love with your norse mythology book, good omens, snow glass apples, the sleeper and the spindle, and more.

i was excited to see one of my favorite authors on tumblr and tried to come up with the most bold and interesting ask i could think of.

i was rude and misinformed and it was a stupid choice of me to send it in with no thought.

but i got feedback. some in the form of kind suggestions. quite a few in the form of death threats and people telling me to kill myself.

while those specific messages were rude and hateful, the point got across. i educated myself to the best of my abilities, and eventually came back online.

not only did i misuse the term queerbaiting but i also implied that you were not an amazing supporter of the queer community. that’s absolutely incorrect. you’ve done so much for us with activism, representation, and overall kindness.

i wanted to address this ask that got so much attention because despite moving accounts i still feel guilt and shame every time i see it, or even when i interact with any of your posts at all. i need to actually address it.

also, i wanted a proper apology to be made. by no means am i now a saint. but im trying to be more thoughtful about thinking before i speak.

whether or not you decide to make a public response to this, i think ill find some peace knowing you’ve received this. ive needed closure on this for a long time.

im overjoyed and thrilled that season two is so close. thank you for tolerating the dumb questions of pretentious kids and thank you for helping to create a world where we can grow to be better than we were.

First of all, and most importantly, I'm really sorry that people were mean to you. That's awful. And nobody should ever have to deal with death threats or online threats and attacks, let alone a thirteen year old.

And secondly, you do not owe me an apology. I figure I have a Tumblr account, people ask things. Mostly they'll get nice replies, occasionally (normally when I'm being asked the same thing over and over) the replies will be terser. There has to be a certain amount of rough and tumble though, and occasionally I'll grab an ask that represents all of the asks I've had on that subject, and try and reply to all of them. That's what happened to you. I was getting tired of being accused of Queerbaiting for the occasional answer about a Season that was not yet released and about which nobody knew anything. And I needed to tell everyone who was doing this that they had to stop now. You had the misfortune to be the representative of all of the other people.

If you are not making mistakes you are not human and you are not learning anything.

(I wish there was tone of voice on the internet.)

And I think you are growing and learning and will make a fantastic adult.

I really hope you enjoy Season 2 when it drops.

[mikewheelerlikesboys]

No hate to anyone, but I don’t understand people who say that not having Byler canon wouldn’t be a big deal. I mean the show would still be good, but it would be a huge deal if Byler doesn’t end up being canon. It WOULD be queerbaiting. Mike, El, and Wills storylines would feel incomplete and lackluster.

Idc what anyone says, people who study film, set design, costuming etc. (sorry I don’t know the actual terms) have stated multiple times that going off of their knowledge, Byler is being set up to be endgame.

For Byler to not be endgame would make the Duffers cowards, the story incomplete, and would just generally be another slap in the face to the lgbtq+ community.

It would definitely make the show less enjoyable for people who actually understand it.

[karenandhenwilson]

I think I figured out, at least for myself, why the 9-1-1 fandom and part of the Buddie-or-Bust side of it feels so much more toxic than ever before when I know for a fact, those demanding Buddie has to become canon and who are looking for any tiny clue to be able to say it will become canon have always been this toxic. (I mean, with the exception of some people who came into the show because with Buck being bi the show was suddenly not queerbaiting anymore--lol, it hurts even just writing this as if it were really true--and then became die-hard Buddie fans or at least pretend to be to garner enough followers and clicks to make money out of fandom. But I'm not talking about them here.)

Before Bucktommy, there was no real opposition for them in the fandom. Buck and Eddie both had other LI and those had their fans (I know for a fact there are still people now shipping Buck with Taylor or Buck with Marisol or Eddie with Shannon). But those were very few fans and they created their own little spaces in fandom places and were barely noticeable. So the Buddie-or-Bust fans were able to mostly ignore them. And there have of course also been some small fanon ships for Eddie and Buck with other people, but those are barely noticed either.

But Bucktommy? That got huge in practically an instant. Because so many people were excited for bi story line with an established character and one in Buck's circumstances (not even Buck himself). And the Bucktommy fans were loud about their support of this new canon ship. So Buddie-or-Bust fans suddenly felt threatened and became much louder in their hate for anything not Buddie. Because now, for some reason, the fans of the other ship seem to be a threat to them. And also, for the first time for any of the LI of Eddie or Buck, they made an honest effort to set up Tommy and the relationship with him as something long-term. Which the Buddie-or-Bust fans recognize just as much as the Bucktommy fans, and so they try even harder to find fault in every single thing.

And that did change something in the behavior of the die-hard Buddie fans. At times, I've been neck-deep in Ana bashing, in Shannon bashing, in Taylor bashing, in Chimney bashing, in Abby bashing, in Maddie bashing. Because I enjoy a good bashing at times. It can be very cathartic. But you know what I've never seen there? I've never seen any of those characters being called derogatory names. Or their fans being called derogatory names and, in most cases, their fans didn't retaliate to the bashing either. (Though, at least for Chimney fans they sometimes very viciously go against people even just mentioning they don't like him and it came up a couple of times that Chimney fans found derogatory names for those bashing Chimney because that group of fans also seems to be unable to avoid content bashing their fav and instead sought it out deliberately to complaint about it.)

I can't even count anymore how many derogatory names I've seen for Tommy or Bucktommy or Bucktommy fans. They seem to come up with a new name every other day. And they enjoy trumping each other in their creations and using those names to get around the boundaries others try to set for themselves by filtering out the already known names.

And I already see people coming at me with "Oh, but Bucktommy fans started it by calling us BoBs." and just: No. Once more, you get an F in reading comprehension. It's always been made very clear that BoBs stood for Buddie-or-Bust and I personally don't see anything derogatory here but also, it's always been made very clear it's a specific subset of Buddie fans who behave poorly to separate them from the Buddie fans who don't care about Bucktommy. Because those people using that term are very well aware that there are really just a couple of very loud bad apples in the Buddie side of fandom and the rest of the Buddie fans don't deserve to be lumped in with them. While, on the other hand, all Bucktommy fans are always called names as a whole.

And I think their biggest problem is not even necessarily the "threat" they perceive Bucktommy to be to their own ship, though that's clearly a big part still. Otherwise, they wouldn't come after authors and artists and other fans who once shipped and created for Buddie and are now creating for Bucktommy. And otherwise, they wouldn't tag so many Buddie fics as Bucktommy, too, in some kind of strange hope to convince Bucktommy fans to ship Buddie again. (Without noticing that all they are accomplishing is to make everyone annoyed at them. And yes, that includes those Buddie fans who don't care for Bucktommy at all because they need to curate the Buddie tag very carefully now, too.)

I think their biggest problem is this belief that their ship is only valid if it's canon.

Which is so strange. Fandom has always mostly been about ships that are very much not canon. And no one ever expected their ships to become canon in the past, as far as I know. (Except if it was promoted and then didn't happen. Looking at Sterek here.) Canon ships barely get any attention. I mean, look at all the 9-1-1 ships that are canon, including Tarlos, and how little content there is for any of them, and also how little engagement there is for this content compared to Buddie. That's always been a trend in fandom, that's not new with 9-1-1.

It's not only strange, I also think it's honestly sad for these fans. Because they have deliberately set themselves up to be disappointed and dig that hole of disappointment ever deeper. Even if Buddie should ever go canon, which I honestly don't think will happen, it won't be at all what they expect. And they'll either leave the fandom or turn on the ship they were so toxically addicted to before.

[lemotmo]

This is what I keep coming back to as well

A. Where do you stand on the whole queerbaiting argument?

Q. In the past this show has not been guilty of queerbaiting. I do agree that Buck and Eddie have both always been queer coded characters, and I believe Eddie has always been the more queer coded of the two, but the show never really sold them or marketed them as a 'couple'. Yes they absolutely played up their pairing and popularity but never in an overtly couple way. They definitely towed the line, but they never crossed it. Also in years past the show has explicitly stated things like 'we have no plans to go there at this time', or even 'stick to fanfiction'. It was always hinted at and broached as a maybe in interviews and reviews but it was never openly discussed by the show or Oliver and Ryan as a genuine plausibility. And even though many of their scenes have felt coupley throughout the series run they always gave them love interests separate from one another. That has not been the case the last two seasons. They do not have the shield of 'we told people it wasn't happening', and 'well canonically speaking we haven't shown any indication that their more than really close friends', this time. This time if they don't do it they will absolutely be guilty of queerbaiting. It's one reason why I genuinely think they are going to pair them together.

I do think the term queerbaiting gets thrown around way too much in fandom spaces because fandoms often create ships that a show never had any plans to make canon. Marketing will absolutely play up a pairings popularity, as is the shows right, but that doesn't mean they're insinuating the show is going to do something with them from a romantic perspective. Last season, but especially so far this season, 911 has absolutely insinuated, and loudly, a romantic possibility exists between the two. Eddie has been in 90% of Buck and Tommy scenes. He's been a subject or topic in other scenes he wasn't physically present in as well. That is intentional. And while I also think fandoms give far too much credit to shows for patterns and theories that are more coincidental than anything else, some patterns and theories do feel intentional. I will fully admit that I believe the couch and lasagna theories. I also increasingly buy into the color theory because there is ample evidence that lends it validity, but most things a show can excuse away as coincidence. But you cannot excuse purposely writing a character into scenes for another couple as a coincidence. They are intentionally placing Eddie in the middle of that relationship. They have not at any time verbally discouraged or dismissed the increasingly public speculation of Buddie this time around either. And Tim, Oliver and Ryan have all had numerous opportunities to shut the speculation down. They've placed themselves in this position and they don't have plausible deniability on their side this time. Not doing it would bring warranted queerbaiting accusations and probably consequences the show wants to avoid. As I've stated numerous times, anon, the show just doesn't really have an option anymore.

Thank you Nonny!

Yes. To all of this. There is no way back from here. They need to finish this story and hopefully do it justice.

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[wenellyb]

Eddie Diaz is a white Latino. Did people learn nothing from the Pedro Pascal discourse? And does the fandom *not* remember that episode where the funeral protestor refuses to be tended by Hen and Chim, so he asks Eddie to give him care— fully seeing he’s white— until Eddie says his last name is Diaz and his father’s Mexican, but he can channel his mother’s Swedish heritage for the man’s comfort? White people are not members of the global majority, but they do live and exist outside Western Europe and the U.S. (like Mexico).

It’s so weird how parts of the fandom are making any positive reaction to a m/m relationship in this show (that isn’t their yaoi ‘buddie’ fanfiction) into something about loving to see white men kiss. Y’all would still be getting that with canon buddie! Y’all couldn’t even support Michael and Glenn (calling them “homewreckers”). Y’all constantly ignore Hen and Karen with your complaints of “queerbaiting.” Y’all also called TK & Carlos’ (911 Lone Star) relationship “toxic” because it began with sex and because y’all fanon Carlos as some aggressive control freak. Like… c’mon!

I don’t think anyone who is supportive of Buck’s new relationship is arguing that Tommy is perfect. He’s was a fucking dick to both Hen and Chim when they joined the 118. His “delivery man” comment to Chim was wildly unacceptable. No one has forgotten this. Yet both Hen and Chim are *NOW* good friends with him…? Why? He changed. And the show shows the audience this. They show that he developed a great camaraderie with Hen and Chim. They show how he— unlike Sal and Gerrard— shifted his behavior and worldview to accept, embrace, and enjoy change.

Tommy could have been Sal. He could have been Gerrard. He had a good working relationship with both men and both men encouraged bad behavior in the 118. Yet he didn’t. He stayed on and befriended Hen and Chim (when most of the other guys still refused). Because he chose to learn and change and open himself to people’s differences (which likely also helped him come to terms with his own “differences”).

Tommy’s arc is meant to show how someone can make amends, repair relationships, and become a better person (y’know… learn, grow, and reform himself). The general audience for this show is straight and white. They *need* to see white people changing and learning to be better. They *need* to see queer people coming into themselves. These are important story lines.

Fans like Buck and Tommy together because they like Buck and Tommy together, because they like what this means for them and what might happen going forward. That’s literally it. We’re all just overjoyed by having more queer representation, including Bi representation. That’s it.

But there are a lot of “buddie” shippers in people’s inboxes hating on Buck and Tommy together for no reason other than it stands in the way of their ideal porn fantasies (“buddie”). And they’re being weirdly queerphobic about it, too.

Hi Anon!!!! So much to unpack here. I'll post this and let anyone comment their thoughts because this is an interesting conversation.

I'll start by saying that it never occurred to me that Ryan Guzman was not White, until Bucktommy became more popular and some Buddie shippers said that Bucktommy shippers were preferring the White MM pairing and I was like "Hmm.... both Buddie and Bucktommy are White MM pairings"???? Like it never even occured to me.

I'm not here to debate Ryan Guzman's ethnicity, he knows that better than us, but as you mentionned people seem to forget that there are White latinos.

I should add that Americans will maybe have a different perspective but in Europe, there is racism, and there is also xenophobia both are bad, but not the same.

If I'm talking about someone who is White and Latino being a victim of prejudice, I would never say that they're victim of racism, I would say that he's victim of xenophobia.

Believe it or not there are a lot of Europeans are xenophobic but not racist and vice versa.

With that being said, I agree with the rest of your ask..

I love 911 Lone Star and watched 911 casually but I never got the Buddie shippers, especially the ones who said they shipped Buddie as a form of activism, or because there was a lack of Queer representation (which is true) but Henren are there, TK and Carlos are right there and it's the same franchise.

They never cared about Henren, they even erased them whenever they accused the show of Queerbaiting even thought it has several Queer characters.

I remember when they started complaining that Bucktommy had more fics that Henren after one kiss.... but never said anything about Buddie having over 20 000 fics after 6 years of nothing even thought Henren was canon.

A lot of their takes are rooted in hypocrisy, it's like they're taking all the arguments that have been thrown at them and throwing them back at Bucktommy shippers without even thinking about it.

It's very important to have discussion about fandom racism, because it's a huge issue especially in the biggest fandoms but I do feel like some of them are bringing the issue in bad faith. This discussion is so important but it needs to be had with the Bucktommy fandom AND the Buddie fandom. So far the Buddie shippers only want the Bucktommy shippers to have it.

Why don't they take a look at the mirror first and ask themselves why they never cared about a Black Lesbian couple when one of them was a Main Character. Why don't they ask themselves why a ship with 2 best friends has over 20000 fics and a canon ship that is TK and Carlos only have 7000.

And why do they find the weirdest excuses to hate on Carlos (as you said), who's clearly not White and never give him the same courtesy they give their fave White chatacters.

When Buddie shippers talk about fandom racism, all I can think is: the call is coming from inside the house.

[verycharismaticdragon]

Currently reading a Korean webnovel instead of Chinese ones and this is making me conceptualize something, let’s see if I can put it in words…

My musings started with realizing that I’ve become very used to this cnovels thing where the main pairing is literally stated in the summary. Not the case for the k-novel I’m reading, and therefore I’m experiencing Pain and Suffering, — torn between my every instinct screaming that the author is setting up the OT3 endgame, and trying to lower my expectations to avoid disappointment. (And the novel is ongoing so I can’t even get spoilers for the ending :) girl help.)

As you may’ve guessed, I found myself strongly preferring the Chinese variant; but as to why exactly it was so important for my enjoyment to know the main couple… it took me a bit to figure out.

I mean, it’s not like I’m reading exclusively for romance, okay? Fannish activity-wise, sure, I tend to get fixated on ships (though even then, not all the time), but when it comes to reading (or any media intake, really), it’s not necessarily what I’m most interested in. Among my beloved titles, there are many where there’s no canon or fanon couple I'm attached to — and more than a few where there’s a canon couple that I neither love nor hate, just accept. So why did I get so attached to the concept of being, essentially, spoiled the endgame couple beforehand?

The key word that made it click was: promise. After all, it’s not like knowing the names of the characters that get together tells me anything about if they will be interesting or boring together, if they will be good for each other or make me scream “break up!” a million times. But it is a solid promise that these two people ARE gonna be a couple. 

And thinking about the word promise reminded me of discussions on plot twists that I’ve seen on here, about what makes a good plot twist and what makes a bad one — specifically, the phrase “narrative promise” that someone came up with. Basically, narrative promise is in the set up and the build up. If the plot twist betrays the narrative promise, it will not work, and it will be hated by the audience, who’ll feel like their emotional investment into the story was mocked.

The thing about the narrative promise, and why this term stuck with me, is that it’s actually applicable more broadly than just for shock-factor plot twists. For example: what is queerbaiting, if not betraying the narrative promise that the two characters are gonna be together? The fans see the narrative promise — the set up and the build up that would be unequivocally romantic for a het couple — and expect it to be fulfilled; only to be called delusional by the very creators that gave them this expectation. 

And this brings me to the next point: the catch of the “narrative promise” is that it’s never a guarantee. You can be completely sure the author is setting up X, only for them to turn around and do something completely different. (Possibly while calling you a little bitch for having the stupidity to invest your feelings into their creation, too.) After a while, a fan learns to manage their expectations. To not bet too much on anything, even if it feels like there’s no other way it can go. To wait until the end of the season or the last chapter before allowing themselves to get attached; to hold back on deciding whether something is good or not, lest they hype up something they will want to bury and forget later.

And this is where we circle back to c-novels, and to spoiling the main couple in the summary. Except I hesitate to call it “spoiling” because, as discussed, it actually heightens my enjoyment. For a simple reason: this practice takes the narrative promise from its nebulous, uncertain status to something concrete and real. Only for this one aspect and with the minimal-est amount of information possible, but still. That’s one thing I don’t have to guess about or doubt myself on (am I seeing things? is there a heterosexual explanation another way to read this? will the author simply kill off one of the characters before the end so that they don’t have to decide whether to make them explicitly queer?), and one thing I can count on (whatever else happens in the plot, I’ll still have this). It’s easy to invest emotionally into those characters and their relationship, when you have an assurance of their happy ending.

Ofc, I’m not saying that I don’t invest emotionally into relationships or characters other than the main CP — just that it is easier. And I would even say having this one(1) hard promise makes it easier to invest into other elements of the work, too, as it makes for a sort of safety net even if something else is disappointing or painful. 

Like, say you are invested in one couple with great chemistry and one side character. In case of a pre-stated ship, even if the side character dies, at least you still have the canon couple. So it’s not like all of your emotional connection to the book is lost, and you can probably bear with the loss of that character by writing everybody lives AU or something. But if the side character dies AND the couple you were invested in gets broken up or killed off or straight-married with other ppl… then doesn’t that make the entire thing into one massive disappointment? to the point that you might even regret picking up the book that made you care only to slap you in the face?.. 

So yeah, having even just one ship guaranteed is very comforting. And then I thought, well, doesn’t this apply to another type of fiction that I’m very familiar with?

Fanfiction?

Which, since very early on, has adopted the practice of putting the endgame ship in the header of the fic. And which, probably not coincidentally, is often a response to a broken (or at the very least not brought to its logical conclusion) narrative promise. And which always felt uniquely easy to read for me… 

See, prior to getting on this little thought train, I always assumed the ease was due to pre-existing familiarity with canon. You know, not having to learn the entire new setting, already having attachment to the characters… But now that I’ve connected these dots, I thought about times I read fics for fandoms I wasn’t familiar with, and originals formatted as fics — and really, wasn’t it always about the narrative promise made solid? 

Esp with how fics make it even broader than cnovels, by having extensive tags and ratings and such. Getting into a fic, you have a pretty clear idea of what may or may not happen in the story, even if you don’t know what exactly will happen or how. And a fic can fail to live up to the premise set up by ship/rating/tags — but not completely turn its back on it. 

(Well, normally. But in those exceptional cases where tags are misleading, at least you have something to point to when saying, “this is not what I was promised”. The ficwriter can hardly claim they don't understand why you expected [ship] to happen when they personally tagged their work as containing that ship — unlike the traditional media creators, who can always play the "you were totally misunderstanding my intentions the entire time" card.)

And having a solid promise like this, it turns out, takes lotsa pressure off starting a New Unfamiliar thing. I do, in fact, trust like that! So it’s no wonder that there were periods in my life when I would only consume fanfiction, because it was so much easier than extending trust to new titles. And it’s no wonder that what brought me back to being an avid reader were Chinese webnovels that use a practice very similar to what we have in fandoms.

I guess I understand myself better now! Still wish I knew if that k-novel's author is /j or /srs about the ot3 though.

[nqueso-emergency]

I'm having a shitty time and I feel like roasting the Bestie Boos and I know they lurk your blog.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/queerbaiting/

The term queerbaiting is used to criticize the practice as an attempt to take advantage of and capitalize on the appearance or implication of LGBTQ+ relationships without actually having real LGBTQ+ representation.

But y'all know, you only remember Hen and Karen when it's convenient to them.

But you know, the only valid queer rep is romantic Buddie right?

You forget about Michael and David, Josh fucking Russo.

But you bitch and moan about the one thing you don't have.

You think you're the only ones who can be brave on Anon? I can be an asshole too!

You know what, you entitled brats? Leave the fucking fandom. You're all fucking useless. You literally bitched at an actor and threatened to destroy his career for queerbaiting when it's not what he fucking did. Your death threats, your homophobia, your bigotry, you're a waste of fandom space. No wonder everyone hates your pathetic existences.

[kelongt]

tbh on a more general stuff i just hate how people forget what queerbainting is. Like the term was born to describe a practice entretainment companies did with fictional characthers. And the term was used to critic these Big companies for using queerness in their characthers to gain attention but never really commiting to it. It was never meant to apply to real people and i hate it's losing it's meaning

That's so real because I was really thinking about that last night like that "queerbaiting allegations" issue didn't just affect dnf but I remember when heartstoppers first season got out fans calling kit Connor a queerbaiter and pressuring to label his sexuality. In the end guess what he left twitter after having to come out as bi to defend himself.

And I'm sure (because I'm not that active in a lot of fandom spaces) this must've happened to more people, right?

It's so crazy that a term to call out homophobia ended up harming queer people who just want to live life.

[kiisaes]

tell us about vld 👁️

(only if u want to)

i'll spare you a truly unhinged ranting for perhaps another time (even though this is gonna be long anyway) but tldr: vld is a show that could have been really good if it just stuck to its direction from the first two seasons!!! and also if its crew didn't accidentally breed the worst possible fandom ever!!!

it had a really good identity at the start— its characters were entertaining, its art and animation were charming if anything, the VAs were genuinely excellent picks and in terms of story it was simple (considering it's a kids show) but effective. the first two seasons focused on one-off, character-driven episodes that gave room for a lot of character writing, team bonding, and tone establishment. i believe that the reason why vld shipping was already so aggressive since s1 — without crew interference — was because the character writing was like, actually good. good enough where people could take their starting characterizations + team dynamic and run wild with it

vld was never going to be an enlightening, mature, groundbreaking show about anything super deep; it's a Y7 show about robot lions in space. but i'm sure most ppl going into vld didn't expect a piece of art, they just wanted to have fun with an atla-adjacent show, or they watched previous voltron iterations. and for what it was, it was very successful at the start! and one of the more popular netflix originals at its time!

but then vld tried taking itself more seriously in s3, and changed its primary storytelling method. now the episodes weren't usually problem-of-the-week, but each episode's plot had to feed into the next episode in line. which would've been fine, if the crew planned ahead and kept track of its characters and plot

but since the lion switch was also conveniently during this season (which inevitably implied switches in character arcs), keeping track of everything suddenly got way harder. also, the lion switch was ass. breaking my silence: that shit made no sense. why didn't they make allura the black paladin??? why do all those mental gymnastics with moving keith from red to black and lance from blue to red just to give allura blue, which was a lion that didn't even really fit her??? (i know the reason was cuz dotf did this lion placement, but is vld dotf? are the characters archetypes the same? no? i didn't think so!!!)

anyway because of the new serialized storytelling format, vld had to follow this really serious, high-stakes, even occasionally dark narrative to keep viewers engaged, and it just .. wasn't the same? like not only are characters' arcs dropping like flies, we're introducing new characters with barely any development or even personality, and it's not even that fun to watch anymore. what happened to my silly guys. what happened to goofin off in the castle. what happened to episode-long missions. this is not avatar. if i wanted to watch avatar i would just watch avatar.

and! in later seasons i think the crew caught on to how fans loveddd the episodic narratives in s1 and 2, so they tried bringing back one-off lighthearted episodes (dnd episode, game show episode, clear day episode, etc.) in an attempt to relive the old glory— and they were fun to watch on their own, sure, but were completely detached from the rest of the story atp. literally the only reason why i even remember these episodes is because they weren't a part of the narrative's incomprehensible sludge

don't even get me started on how the crew hated its audience. don't get me started on the ship bait, the weird canon queerbait situation(s), the irresponsible encouragement of parasocial fan relationships with VAs, artists, creators, you name it. it's how we got one of The worst fandoms in recent history. it's how vld was one of the newer fandoms that started an whole new era of fandom etiquette — namely, disregarding all previous fandom norms in favor of the most childish, pearl-clutching, moral-panicky discourse you'd find daily, and consequently you wouldn't EVER dare bring up to a normal person who exists in the real world.

the crew hated its audience so much, it essentially punished its fans by shutting down all fan theories, purposefully writing AROUND plot twists THEY SET UP, leaving a really messy and plot-hole-filled final script. they especially hated the shippers so much that they shut down BOTH main camps — klance and sheith — for canon allurance, a truly horrible way to end both their character arcs since neither character gets all that satisfying of a conclusion (lance becomes a farmer, allura fucking dies)

this is already long enough but i hope this gives you a general idea :') i have so many emotions about vld. someday i'll make the retrospective video essay of my dreams. this was my nonstop fixation for two straight years. i wasted two years on this shit.

also this show's 8 seasons were released all in a span of 2 and a half years.

[eddiediazismyhusband]

I think part of the problem I have (and this may be an unpopular opinion) is all the hopes and opinions and ideas people (fans) have about the new season. And I don’t just mean things like the “mustache = obvious gay Eddie” that’s happening. But thoughts on Bobby, his and Athena’s living situation, Gerrard as captain, let alone Buck, Eddie, and others.

I know a lot of spec is just for fun, but some people take it quite serious. And I know I’m newer to this fandom but sometimes I read serious takes and go “….but that would never actually happen?! I know many of us don’t trust Tim and the writers but realistically that would never be a storyline on a tv show.…that’s a fanfic.”

So I can’t blame you for your pessimism or want to avoid spec. I hope we don’t get a lot of bts stuff either too, because I feel like fans will be trying to (over)analyze everything to figure things out. Only to likely be disappointed because I don’t trust these writers to write/do anything half as creative, original or logical as fans come up with. Expectation is the enemy and I’m afraid a lot of fans have theirs set too high for this season already

anon i have disgraced you by leaving this burried in the inbox and i feel awful 😭😭

i think fandom in general (and i mean any fandom not just 9-1-1) have this tendency to blur the line between cautious optimism/spec and actually convincing themselves of something happening…

i think a lot of people (and if you are one of these people this is NOT a dig at you) still want to have faith that the writers are actually going somewhere with the story, and they do so by speculating and putting actual thought into what the overarching storyline could be but unfortunately after 6 seasons of waiting, i’m getting tired of the whole thing being dragged out.

it’s no longer a will they/won’t they between the characters for me because multiple times they’ve reached the point where they don’t need anymore of that build; the only will they/won’t they is in terms of the writing team actually going somewhere rather than continuing to bait us

i have no issue with spec/theorizing (i may not wanna see it but i just filter out the spec tags) but my issue lies with some of the more popular buddie blogs having this whole “i can sense that buddie is happening” and then treating people who are validly apprehensive towards getting our hopes up like we’re brainless idiots who don’t know what we’re talking about

even though we literally went through the same thing of buddieblr being like “s7 is our year i can FEEL it there is no way they aren’t going canon”….. just for them to not go canon bc the writers (yet again) changed their minds last minute when they got an early renewal and realized “oh- we don’t actually have to commit anymore, we can just keep baiting snd dragging them along— and they technically can’t call it queerbaiting anymore bc buck’s bi now!”

like everything surrounding this season has been screaming to me (NOT anything from oliver and ryan— ive spoken before about how i think they are where we’re at in terms of being strung along by the writers every season) that we are just being baited again.

and as far as the over-analyzing, i’ve seen so many people saying things like “omg oliver and ryan posting candids/photos and tagging each other buddie is obviously happening”……. as if oliver and ryan aren’t friends…. like i fear the two of them posting eacg other doesn’t really mean much if anything when they’ve done that throughout their friendship.

and just because there are some deranged people on the internet spewing hate about them being friends doesn’t mean that their posting is a sign of anything either other than the fact that they’re probably blocking the lunatics and posting each other anyway…. it’s not some gotcha to anyone in the fandom, it’s not a sign that buddie is coming, it’s two castmates being friends, and doing things that friends do all the time

overall, like i said, i have no problem with people (other than myself) engaging in spec and at this point the people who are getting their hopes up will only have themselves to blame if we’re let down again… my issue mainly lies with some of the bigger blogs being dicks to people raising valid concerns over the new season and not trusting the writers when the writers haven’t done anything to earn that trust; in fact having only done things to the detriment of that trust.

anyway, sorry for the super delayed and super long response, anon 😭😭 i’ve been neglecting my ask box lately in lieu of a spike in temu stans sending me hate yet again but i was just scrolling through and noticed this one and wanted to make a response!