#I do love that we get a lot of moiraine in the dragon reborn

[deeplyridiculouslyinlove]

Not sure why but this week in particular I am in my feels about how much I miss Rosamund/show! Moiraine. Truly I am DESPERATE for Season 3. Please bestow on us a trailer or something soon, we deserve it 🥺🥺

[shutupineedtothink]

More Moiraine & Lan (and the Bond) thoughts, because I really just can’t help myself.

Just thinking about how we know every Aes Sedai and Warder share the Bond, but we don’t see any other AS/Warder teams using it as a form of communication NEARLY as much as Moiraine and Lan do.

Like these mofos are having full conversations with head tilts and tiny eyebrow raises and 3 seconds of eye contact from the jump. Sometimes not even looking at each other. And it’s extra great if you’re a show only like me because you only realize it when you go back later after all the stuff with the Bond is explained in 1x04/1x05. Like I remember thinking when I was first watching the pilot ‘wow, these two are really in sync, clearly they’ve known each other a long time,’ but it’s so much more than that obviously.

Now, one easy explanation for this is that we’re just seeing them the most, they’re main characters, and s1 especially does a lot of work hyping up the Bond and how important it is so that we get the full impact of them being cut off later. Makes sense.

But… idk like even Alanna and Ihvon and Maksim, who are actually in a romantic relationship, don’t seem to prefer the Bond as a way to communicate. We even see them have their little diplomatic discussion before Ihvon goes to follow Tomas. It’s an actual conversation. Maksim even prefers the Bond masked, so I guess in that way they kind of have to talk to each other.

Verin and Tomas are pretty quiet in general, but still it’s not emphasized that they use the Bond to communicate that much. Perhaps this is also highlighted by Tomas’s advice to Lan that the Bond isn’t the only common language they share with their Aes Sedai.

Except for Moiraine and Lan, it’s like AT LEAST 80%. It’s the primary way they communicate. Because 1. they’re both so naturally reserved on the outside (but feel very deeply on the inside), and 2. I imagine it comes in handy to be extra good at it when you’re on the road searching for the Dragon Reborn and you don’t want everyone around you to know what you’re about.

Then there’s Stepin’s comment from s1 to Kerene, “Can you imagine their dinners?” Which is funny but also very telling. To all the other Aes Sedai and Warders, Moiraine and Lan seem pretty cold and distant, to everyone else and each other. But again, that’s by design to protect their mission. They’re just having conversations no one else can see, even other Bonded pairs. It’s like most AS and their Warders use the Bond as insurance, a fail safe even, to understand and communicate with each other, with normal human communication (i.e. TALKING) as the primary method. But for Moiraine and Lan it’s the other way around.

My POINT BEING, that this adds weight to their storyline in S2. Like they are REALLY struggling because on top of everything else, this fundamental piece of their relationship and communication is just gone. And it opens a door for Moiraine to push Lan away, when she NEVER would have been able to before, practically or emotionally. And he reels from her attacks because he’s just not as good at understanding her without the Bond, when he would have seen right through that shit before, just from feeling alone. So Tomas can say to him, you need to really listen, but 20 years of shared emotional mind reading is not that easy to bypass. You don’t learn normal person communication skills overnight. Certainly not when there’s this gaping hole in your head/heart where another person you probably knew better than yourself should be but isn’t.

Anyway, I think it just adds even more credence to why they’re both so lost throughout most of S2, especially Lan. And what makes them so badass with the Bond but so absolutely uncoordinated without it. And why every other Aes Sedai/Warder thinks they’re fuckin weird. And why we love them, because who doesn’t want to be so fundamentally understood like that? Who doesn’t want their own secret language with someone that no one else really gets, but that person gets you on a level so real it can’t be replaced? That’s what we’re all reaching for, and that’s what they have with each other. For better or worse.

[markantonys]

So regarding Ishamael obsessing over Mat and Perrin. Like I have been thinking about how he probably does that because if Lews didn’t take away his death from him he would have been reborn with them, so he’d be one of the boys. Do you think that he sees himself in Mat (“Mat will be mine” etc)? Or do you think that he might recognize their past selves? Because he has been VERY gentle with them.

Series!Ishamael IS a very gentle person and his basic idea is that he is very depressed, Lews doesn’t love him and now he only wants to commit murder suicide with the entire world, but only if Lews consents. But like. He doesn’t kill for fun and neither is he particularly impatient with people, but Mat and Perrin are definitely getting the special “we could be friends and maybe even lovers” treatment. Not on the levels that Rand is getting (a dream where Rand sits like a good boy in Ishamael’s bed and waits for him??? Bruh……..)

Like the whole scene where he is just making Mat his “tea”? Like that’s a very intimate scene. “No it’s not about the sex” wow, why do casually intimate then?

oooh this is a very interesting line of thought!! just yesterday @butterflydm was pointing out some mat-ishamael foiling too (ishy being the dragon's best friend but then becoming "betrayer of hope"; mat being the dragon's best friend and being called "rand's only hope" by perrin in 2x08)

ishamael definitely wants MAT to think the two of them are similar as a manipulation tactic to get him over to the dark side, but i can totally see ishy himself also genuinely thinking they're similar and seeing some of himself in mat. it's telling that mat is the only emond's fielder for whom he uses his own reason for joining the shadow as a tactic: for perrin he preys on his fear of the wolf, for rand he preys on his fear of hurting his friends, but for mat, ishy lays out his own philosophy because he thinks that will work with mat - because he thinks mat is similar to him.

and with moiraine's line in 2x08 making an explicit link for the audience between the LTT-ishy-lanfear friendship and the ef5 friendship, i wouldn't be surprised if ishy and lanfear themselves maybe see a bit of that echo too and feel a little wistful or resentful or jealous. there's lots of Mess tangled up with that trio and it's fascinating!

[moghedien]

I am considering reading the books but I've seen it said that Rand is the protagonist of the book series and that characters like Moiraine and Egwene who are basically my favourites have significantly less to do in the books, with Moiraine being absent for chapters and chapters at times. I'm also not a big Rand fan (i love a disaster man and Mat is right there, come on) so I'm wondering would you reccomend the series to me? What are the big differences between it and the adaptation?

so #1 advice for anyone regardless of where they're at with wanting to read the books: If you're already watching the show, don't start reading the books until after this season is over. There's a lot of rearranging and changing of stuff in the books and I think that can get confusing if you're trying to consume the show and the books at the same time.

Ok so regarding Rand, yes, he's the main character and is the vast majority of the POVs in the first book. Its extremely obvious who the dragon reborn is in the book and its never really presented as a mystery. As the books go on, it becomes much much more of an ensemble type story and Rand will be almost entirely absent for long periods of time, but he's still largely the main character. but there are 148 different POV characters in the books, so its far from a Rand-only story

Regarding Moiraine and Egwene, while I wouldn't really say that Egwene has a significantly lesser role in the books (at least after the first book), Moiraine's role is definitely beefed up for the show. We don't get her POV until a few books in (well there is a very brief POV in book 1), and she's largely missing from book 2. She is a much more (emotionally) distant figure and definitely the sort of Gandalf/mentor role in the books rather than the main character. But if you like Egwene, there is plenty of Egwene content for you in the books, do not worry.

As for differences, the main difference between the books and the show is the first book is not the first season. There are definitely elements there, but the first book is best viewed as an homage to the fantasy genre that Robert Jordan had to make a certain way to get it through publishing. Its not *bad* but its definitely a Lord of the Rings-y story that follows that kind of formula. The show made sure there was a lot more worldbuilding and future plot threads established in season 1 than there was present in book 1. It doesn't start becoming truly its own thing until book 2, imo, and it's a common sentiment where books 4 and 5 are really where it starts becoming the Wheel of Time and holding its own ground. Like as much as some people do complain about it and as much as I do like the Eye of the World, it would have made a terrible on screen experience if it were told entirely faithful to the book

So I wouldn't say absolutely to read it or not. obviously I do want people to read and enjoy the books, but its also a commitment, and if you're coming to them off of the show, its best to be aware that's its going to be different going in. You're not going to see some of the things that happened in season 1 at all, but you're going to get a much more detailed account of the story and it might give you better context for some of the things going on in the show, even if its not how it happened in the books.

So if you're ok with the fact that its different, I say try it once the season is over. If you don't want to finish it or continue on with the series, then there's no harm in trying and you can always keep watching the show even if the books aren't for you

[mass-convergence]

I’ll be honest with you - in season 1 of WOT:

I didn’t exactly love what I’m calling the Main Character Squad (Rand, Egwene, Perrin, Mat, Nynaeve). Like don’t get me wrong - I didn’t hate them. I just thought they were … idk … boring? And this may warrant a rewatch, I’ll admit I was not in the best place emotionally while watching the season. But I just felt like they were kind of flat with maybe the exception being Mat and Nynaeve who I was kinda like 👀 what’s going on. Mat had that whole corrupted by darkness thing going on with him and Nynaeve was just a fucking badass and seemed highly motivated to protect her friends from the get go. But idk Rand felt like he was just kinda …… there? Same with Egwene and Perrin.

(This is ending up turning into an essay so I’m gonna put shit below a cut)

They were cool characters and I obviously was rooting for them to get reunited and stuff but I was like “eh???” Until maybe the very end when things started falling in place and the plot became a lot more sticky (as my friend describes plots that suddenly have a lot of competing motivations all coming together)

So I think my main issue was with their writing rather then the characters themselves. I’m coming at this as a complete outsider to WoT - never read the books and even if I did, I believe an adaptation must be able to stand on its own. And what I think happened was that season 1 like *had* to catch everyone up on the lore of the world, why Moiraine was so hellbent on finding the Dragon, what the hell the Aes Sedai were, etc. etc.

And it may have somewhat put characterization on the backburner until the end when they were like “we caught you up to speed now here’s the plot”. I guess they felt passive, like the plot was just happening to them instead of them driving the plot. Like we got hints of stuff - I was confused about what was going on with Perrin, then really intrigued towards the end when the wolves attacked the White Cloaks camp. And then of course the whole Eye of the World thing and Ishamael being released and him cutting Moiraine off from the One Power.

But idk, most of that season just fell flat to me.

The second season however, whooooo boy did I get fucking invested in those crazy kids. I was like “why can’t Nynaeve deliberately channel? [Insert Spiderverse “can’t do it on command” meme here]”, “oh fuck how is Egwene going to get out of this and also fuck you Renna”, “Rand please don’t go crazy”, “Perrin is like spiritually connected to wolves??? I need to know more about how that is a thing”, “Mat I swear to god you better not be evil because I’m like rooting for you”.

And of course I was really invested in the supporting characters - like Moiraine’s journey, Liandrin’s betrayal, Lanfear’s … everything (god I love her).

And oh god was it almost empowering to see their arcs play out.

- Rand struggling with the fact that he is indeed the Dragon Reborn and that male channelers tend to go batshit and kill everyone they love.

- Perrin becoming more familiar with his wolf-powers (I forgot what they were called or if they even had a name I’m sorry) … and being caught between his humanity and his wolf side. RIP Hopper, I’m glad you were avenged almost immediately.

- Egwene first off like: struggling with the fact that Nynaeve was kind of distant (because Nynaeve was obviously dealing with her own issues) but sticking with her friend. And then getting fucking captured and enslaved and like thrown into one of the most disempowering positions one can get into… and she fucking still held her own and never gave in. God I think her arc is like my favorite one this season. Fuck you Renna I’m glad you fucking got what you deserved.

- Mat dealing with the aftermath of the dagger and just having this darkness inside of him. He had been pushed down and kicked all his life, people viewed him as a loser, and he had that attitude towards himself as well. I felt like a connection to him because yeah, that boy is just a touch depressed, and as someone who’s dealt with their own mental health issues and ADHD absolutely making me feel like I’m constantly failing everyone including myself …….. good lord did his arc make me feel some feelings. Like he took that darkness - namely the dagger - and he used it to fight his way out. And then he’s a fucking hero of the horn. That is unironically super fucking inspiring to me.

- Nynaeve not being able to channel on command, being almost afraid of the power she can wield (I think that’s the angle they’re going for at least - though it also does seem to be very attached to her emotions). Out of all the main character squad: I liked her the most in the first season. She was very much motivated to protect her friends. Like I do see her kind of as the mother figure of the group (and not in a derisive way - like she will absolutely fuck a person up if they hurt her friends as we saw in season 2 with that sul’dam), the “heart” in the five man band. Like *almost* like Katara in a way and I really loved Katara so there you go.

- honorable mention to Moiraine because she thought that she had to handle this shit on her own. She had to figure out what Ishamael and the Dark One were planning while protecting Rand and also dealing with the aftershocks of her being cut off from the One Power. Something that Verin very much analogized to being assaulted or raped. And Moiraine just kept trucking, carrying the burden of what she felt like her own responsibilities like she carried those fucking buckets up the hill. The season was her realizing she could rely on others and she didn’t have to be as closed off as she was being. And oh my god once she got the One Power back she (a woman who was already plenty fucking badass during this entire season) like went to fucking S-tier levels of badass. God I fucking love her.

Basically: I’m saying that I loved season 2 very very much and I’m now rooting for these crazy kids to fuck shit up and save the world.

Also I love every single woman in this show who’s not Renna or the Seanchan because fuck those slavery loving assholes.

[torashisama]

WoT about: "The writers keep giving time to plots that aren't bad, but do nothing to actually serve the story".

Disclaimer : As always, it's long.

Alll of these comments are from a discussion I had with a book reader in the comments of a post on S3E01 being written by S1E06 and S2E07 writer: Justine Juel Gillmer. Basically, the original poster was celebrating more Siuan (however it might be) and/or a possible Siuanraine reunion in S3.

Book Reader 1:

In a story about the potential end of all things, I can't honestly say that I care about Suianraine. Side romance plots are fine, but they're not what WoT is really about. I hope they give a little ship time to those who are craving it, but they really need to work on the Nerf Reborn. He's way weaker in the show than he is in the books. We need a Rocky montage to put the Dragon back on track.

Book reader 2 :

One of my biggest issues with this show. The writers keep giving time to plots that aren't *bad*, but do nothing to actually serve the story.

Moiraines family scenes? Well written and acted, but that's 30-40 minutes that we could have had in Falme, or building up the Horn, or generally building the legend of the dragon.

Book reader 1 :

Yep. The show wastes precious time on things which aren't central to the plot.

Torashi :

That mostly has to do with the fact that the show is not about Rand but about Moiraine and specifically about Moiraine's Quest which is something that most book readers seems to have overlooked and that's the most important and fundamental change from the books yet it's overlooked when it comes to understanding how and why everything plays out the way it does.

If we had to choose a character and declare them the main one for the show, it would be Moiraine. That's the main difference that explains most of the complaints bookcloaks and book readers may have with the show.

The books are about Rand. Here, it's about "Moiraine's Quest", and it gives the show more room to explore the characters deemed as side characters and one of the most interesting group of people in this universe in my opinion: Aes Sedai's and their warders.

Both are telling the same story but not from the same POV, and that changes a bunch of things and it includes what gets showed or not.

Book reader 1 :

I certainly didn't overlook that the show is focused on Mo. That is the biggest problem, as you say (pre post edit: I did not say that the the Mo focus was a problem, never had actually) . Book Mo isn't anywhere near a main character after TEOTW, so it's a very questionable decision to promote her to a main, outside of real world "politics". Pike is the most recognized actress **and** she's a producer.

While I get that non-readers don't mind it, I and millions of other readers waited 39 years for the books to be turned into a show.

We weren't waiting on Siuan and Moiraine.

Torashi:

I'm not saying that you're overlooking this but that those who did read the books tends to do so and fail to realise( pre post edit: or recognise really) that the things they're complaining about usually makes sense as Rand is not the main character anymore.

The pov's are mostly Moiraine's, and while it's different from the books, it doesn't mean that it's not good. The story is just told differently, and a lot of you guys fail to realise that while it's not what you hoped for, you at least get to experience the same story told another way and in the same world you grew up loving but on screen.

I understand that it's disappointing as it's probably not what you guys imagined and expected the show would be if you ever got to see it, but Rand, as the main character, probably wouldn't have worked as needed exactly because it's been so long since the books.

The classic hero trope is not as appealing as it used to be for TV, and switching the focus and putting it onto the Gandalfs of the WoT world probably was better so it ended up as the Moiraine's Quest show and not as the Randland show. It's also probably because it's usually better if most actors in a fantasy show are unknown so that their reputation and previous roles do not taint the ones they'll have in the show.

( pre post edit : in case some people don't get why I'm comparing them, it's to emphasise that all of these fantasy shows have 1 or 2 of their main cast and characters as the biggest stars so that they don't have to rely only on the existing fandom but can also count on their main celebrity to bring a wider audience (advertising aside) which allows for the rest of the cast to be lesser known or straight-up debuting and/or unknown actors)

For ex, Matt Smith and Paddy Considine probably are the most recognisable actors of HOTD (HBO) and they're brothers in the show and have a close relationship ( in case you didn't see it, Matt is Daemon and Paddy is King Viserys)

WoT (Prime) has Rosamund Pike and Sophie Okonedo as their biggest star, and they have a close relationship.

(Fun fact : Sophie wasn't even supposed to be in the show and probably wouldn't have accepted if she was offered the part but Rosamund specifically wanted her to play her love interest and Sophie had to be written to personally by Ros so that she would accept the role ( anyone who knows or follows Sophie's work knows that her playing Siuan was as probable as a WoT + GoT crossover episode) )

The Witcher( Netflix) they really just needed Henry Cavill as he actually is a mainstream celebrity and was at the prime of his career when he took the role.

Good Omens (Prime) : David Tennant and Micheal Sheen, they lead and are close. ( they really could have been fine with David here. Actually, he probably has one of the most dedicated fan base I've seen because of his performance as the doctor ) ( they also have benedict cumberbatch but I'm sticking to mains biggest star + they're closest relationships )

Carnival Row (Prime and original so a lil different): Cara delevigne and Orlando Bloom, biggest stars + close relationship.

Good Omens is focused on the gandalfs ( Crowley & Aziraphale) again btw and it's one of amazon most successful adaptations.

The Witcher is also focused on the Gandalfs of their world: Geralt & Yennefer (by extension)

WoT switched it to be the same : Moiraine & Siuan (by extension).

What i'm saying is that basically most of the complaints are related to missing things from the books, the cast diversity, things people wish they could have seen or wishing Josha's (pre post edit :Rand) or Daniel's (pre post edit : Lan) characters where depicted as in the books or it's blaming the show (pre post edit: or really mainly and mostly Rafe and sometimes the rest of the writers) for spending time on things that actually makes sense when you recenter yourself in what the show is actually doing which is telling the story from Moiraine's POVs.

Siuan is important so she gets time, Lan is important so he gets time (pre post edit : mainly referencing the Aes sedai + Warder focused episodes of S1, from Ep4/5 to Ep6).

Liandrin is a problem and has a grudge against Mo that leads her to be a threat not only because she's a red and black ajah but also because of an ulterior reason so she gets time and is developed, Moiraine is pushing everyone away even the only 2 people she could allow herself to be close to during her mission because of her depression and allow herself no other choice but to go to Cairhien alone which happens to be her hometown so we get a family reunion and see how much her quest for Rand impacted her and her family too and how unusual it is even for an Aes sedai( Alanna's scenes with her family).

The main problem isn't that the story is being told through Moiraine's POV but that they only get 8 episodes of approximately 1 hour each to tell a story that required 14 books to finish, they clearly need more or longer episodes per season to include more of what they initially intended to put in each season. ( pre post edit : in case you didn't know Lan was supposed to start training the boys from s1. you can check here )

For reference, GOT had 10 episodes for each season until S7 for 8 season out of 10 initially planned, each episode falling anywhere between 1h and 1h22 max, and it's only 5 books out on 7 planned.

There, we have 8 episodes falling anywhere between 54 minutes to 1h10 min max each, planned to have 8 seasons for 14 books.

(Pre post edit : so far, and yes i went to check the longest ep so far was 1h10 min and it's s2 finale in case you were wondering)

Original poster reaction :

OMG!!! I wish I could give you gold for this comment. I am getting tired of when I post something about the show, instead of people focusing on the show, they wanna bring the "but but but the books did this and that and it is nowhere to be found on the show", like I don't care, let's focus on what's happening in the show and can we only talk about that? You should make another main post pointing this out and that for the sake of productive conversations, this sub should stop complaining about what isn't on the show from the books and more on what we actually get, if it works or not let's stick to that!

Torashi :

I understand, but I totally get their reaction, too. It's been so long for them that it's probably hard to accept anything else than what they expected or wished they had.

(pre post edit :

While i do understand the frustration, i do not understand why you think it makes it fine to ruin (or tarnish) the experience of genuine show only fans by complaining and shitting on the show for missing things or not doing it the way you wanted it to be instead of going:

"That's cool i wish they had room for this or that, in the books there's this or that and whatever, you should check the books."

"The story is so much more richer even though the focus is not on the guide in the books. It could be interesting for you to see it from another PoV too"

You'd actually make show-only fans want to read the books. You guys have been tainted by so much display of lack of respect and gratitude towards those making and/or enjoying the show that I think that you're actually deterring show only fans from the books by dividing the fandom as much as S8 divided GOT fans and by making people afraid to read them before the show ends because of how ugly your reactions are and have been. (You guys are literally associated to Whitecloacks).)

Torashi:

What's infuriating me, though, is that most of the books things they wish they saw when that's what they're complaining about are things that had to be cut because they were details and did not impact the rest of the story as much and instead of complaining about the show having an insane amount of episodes, episode's length and planned seasons for 14 books each individually as big as an encyclopedia they blame Rafe who actually loved the books and is a fan too, that's literally why the books got approved to be on screen. Rafe he's a book fan that got lucky the same way Brandon Sanderson was a book fan that got lucky back then. He probably wish he could put more things in there too.

Instead of complaining about the real problem, they should be battling against, its straight up hate (from bookcloaks) and endless complaints about things that does not matter as its really just "yes but in the books" for choices that does makes sense when they stop being Rand centric while watching a show that isn't about the hero's journey but about the Quest itself.

(Pre post edit thoughts:

Robert made a mistake by calling his books: The Wheel of Time ,to then make most of the pov's and most of the story revolve around a single character. He should have called it "The dragon Reborn" or something along those lines, because most of book readers' new complaints I've seen so far, really are just about it not being ridiculously focused on Rand's story or like the books when they know that this is not a "Randland" show but specifically one that corrects this major flaw from the books by using the only character close enough, interesting enough and refreshing enough to tell this story trought a different lense that allows more freedom to explore other "z-list"/ side characters who actually plays a role in all of this, it's actually painfull to see so many book readers fail to realise that Moiraine really is just the best character to tell this story as she actually knows what's going on behind the scene whereas Rand is just clueless.)

E.g: Rand apparently being powerless (or rather not as powerful as they wished he would be already).

Even though he was alone and in hiding for the last 6 months and only ever channelled because he lacked control and only got to Logain once, because he stayed close but still ignored him for as long as he could. Until he left with Selene to then be found by Mo, he still kills Ishy, Turak and his guards, takes the shield off Egwene (pre post edit: who's struggling btw) and looks like he doesn't even break a sweat.

Yet, all some book readers allow themselves to see is him being "powerless" because he didn't get a flashy 1vs1 against the bad guy even though it wouldn't makes sense with his current development (that was impacted by what ? Cuts because of time/budget constraints ) and Egwene literally is the strongest and most experienced of them all right now because of the Sanchean (pre post edit : the bright side of being a damane lol ) and is one of the most developed character of s2 from EF5 because of what needs to happen with Siuan at some point in S3 and where her (really theirs) story might be going.

(more on this topic here)

This ends here, feel free to share your opinion on this.

[apocalypticavolition]

Let's (re)Read The Dragon Reborn! Chapter 22: The Price of the Ring

Everyone always wonders why heroes in fantasy stories are so reluctant to get the cool magical artifacts and stuff. This chapter justifies why you should be a little cautious around free doodads, especially when they're enchanted! Anything else would be spoilers though, and if you don't want spoilers for the whole Wheel of Time series, you shouldn't keep reading.

This chapter has the Flame of Tar Valon icon because we're seeing the Accepted ritual again and because Egwene is going to be the Flame of Tar Valon for a hot minute or two. Also the Amyrlin's voice is heard at the end. Lots of meaning, this chapter icon.

But Sheriam seemed to have dismissed the papers from her mind as soon as she asked.

Since the first word out of Egwene's mouth was "Verin," Sheriam probably dismissed them for that reason. She either knows Verin's allegiance or buys the cover that she's a distracted old wmoan.

“I listened to the lectures,” Egwene protested, “and I remember them, but . . . can’t I have a night’s sleep first?”

It's funny to consider that when Egwene gets raised next time, she'll spend a night traveling through the world of dreams.

An Aes Sedai sat cross-legged on the bare rock before each of the spots where arches joined ring, all three wearing their shawls. Alanna was the sister of the Green Ajah, but she did not know the Yellow sister, or the White.

Sadly, we don't know them either. I wouldn't at all be surprised though if they were significant players though, since Sheriam, Elaida, and Alanna all are too.

“She should not be given this chance.” There was iron in Elaida’s voice, and her face was scarcely softer. “I do not care what her potential is. She should be put out of the Tower. Or failing that, set to scrubbing floors for the next ten years.”

Elaida's just bitter that Moiraine has outmatched her in recent all-star recruitment. Cute that their animosity starts so early.

She sounded as if she had said this many times. There was a light of sympathy in her eyes, but her face was almost as stern as Elaida’s. The sympathy frightened Egwene more than the sternness.

If a member of the BA is feeling sorry for you, you know your life is about to suck hardcore.

“There is some sort of—resonance.” She never took her eyes from the arches. “An echo, almost. I do not know from where.”

Two T'A'R access points conflicting with each other?

“Then let her face what she fears.” Even in its formality, there was a note of satisfaction in Elaida’s voice.

Already Elaida thinks Egwene can't survive the punishments coming her way. And already she's wrong. A remarkably pig-headed woman.

Of course Rand was her husband—her handsome, loving husband—and Joiya was her daughter—the most beautiful, sweetest little girl in the Two Rivers. Tam, Rand’s father, was out with the sheep, supposedly so Rand could work on the barn but really so he could have more time to play with Joiya. This afternoon Egwene’s mother and father would come out from the village. And probably Nynaeve, to see if motherhood was interfering with Egwene’s studies to replace Nynaeve as Wisdom one day.

Egwene's first archway takes her to the closest equivalent of a fluffy high school/coffee shop AU that the setting can allow. A true hell for Egwene, who needs shit to do.

Egwene knew—she thought she knew—Whatever it was, was gone.

Egwene's Seanchan trauma is so strong that she can almost recall it across timelines. I think the only reason she doesn't spend any of the three arches in the damane collar is because she's already faced that fear as thoroughly as possible.

When Rand’s head hurt, strange things happened soon after. Lightning out of a clear sky, smashing to bits that huge oak stump he had been working two days to root out where he and Tam were clearing new field. Storms that Nynaeve did not hear coming when she listened to the wind. Wildfires in the forest. And the deeper his pain grew, the worse what followed.

Huh. After my migraines we get sudden thunderstorms and those cause forest fires. Am I the Dragon Preborn? I fucking hope not, though getting channeling as a reward for suffering through the headaches would be fucking fantastic.

But three times now, Egwene had cured someone Nynaeve had given up for dead. Three times she had sat to hold a hand through the last hour, and seen the person get up from a deathbed. Nynaeve had questioned her closely on what she had done, what herbs she had used, in what blending. Thus far, she had not found the courage to admit that she had done nothing.

It's interesting to note that in a world where the EF5 never leaves town, Egwene eventually becomes more capable at Healing than Nynaeve. It might just be that their blocks are different, I suppose, or that Wilders are prone to implausible feats in the initial period that they can't necessarily replicate after the fact, though Rand's channeling outbursts are things he'd do quite easily later.

She halted, looked back at Joiya gurgling in her cradle, at Rand still pressing hand to his head and looking at her as if wondering where she was going. “No,” she said. “No, this is what I want. This is what I want! Why can’t I have this, too?”

Fucking Wheel, making women choose between families and careers no matter what position it's in. How depressing.

She stiffened her back and kept walking, but she could not keep the tears from rolling down her cheeks. Rand’s groans built to a scream, drowning Joiya’s laughter. From the corner of her eye, Egwene saw Tam coming, running as hard as he could.

Really the fact that Joiya is laughing hysterically while her dad is having a horrible meltdown is good evidence that these possible timelines aren't entirely real but are specifically designed as a trap.

“Every woman I have ever watched come out of there has asked that question. The answer is, no one knows. It has been speculated that perhaps some of those who do not come back chose to stay because they found a happier place, and lived out their lives there.” Her voice hardened. “If it is real, and they stayed from choice, then I hope the lives they live are far from happy. I have no sympathy for any who run from their responsibilities.”

And what about your responsibilities to not be an evil witch, Sheriam? Pretty hypocritical of you to judge the women trapped in the ter'angreal when you aren't even a true believer but only joined for political power!

She stared down at her dress, blue silk sewn with pearls, all dusty and torn. Her head came up, and she took in the ruins of a great palace around her. The Royal Palace of Andor, in Caemlyn.

This is of course foreshadowing the eventual destruction of Caemlyn as the central location of the Last Battle that never does quite come to pass under Brando Sando's work.

Once she stepped on a woman’s arm, sticking out from under a mound of plaster and bricks that had been an interior wall and perhaps part of the floor above. She noticed the arm as little as she noticed the Great Serpent ring on one finger. She had trained herself not to see the dead buried in the refuse heap Trollocs and Darkfriends had made of Caemlyn. She could do nothing for the dead.

It's for the best that real Egwene never quite has to steel herself in this way.

“The madness, Egwene. I am—actually—holding it—at bay.” His gasping laugh made her skin prickle. “But it takes everything I have just to do that. If I let go, even a little, even for an instant, the madness will have me. I won’t care what I do then. You have to help me.”

A lot of people think that Egwene judges Rand way too harshly in later books and while I definitely don't think she's as good as a friend as she should have been, I think we can blame this vision for some of it. The Rand of later books becomes more and more like this madman, laughing at inappropriate, mood swinging violently, not always able to channel reliably or effectively. Egwene gets to see the end of the road before everyone else does and even though he's still relatively stable in LOC, she's definitely seeing him take the first steps down it.

“If they take me—the Myrddraal—the Dreadlords—they can turn me to the Shadow. If madness has me, I cannot fight them. I won’t know what they are doing till it is too late. If there is even a spark of life left when they find me, they can still do it. Please, Egwene. For the love of the Light. Kill me.”

While the arches do seem to be psychologically manipulative, they are also great teaching tools. This scenario is clearly built out of Egwene's fear of Rand's channeling ability, but it has to up the stakes even beyond that and so pulls more facts for her to learn from.

It is a thing not done, so far as I know—Light send it has not been done!—since the Trolloc Wars. It took thirteen Dreadlords—Darkfriends who could channel—weaving the flows through thirteen Myrddraal. You see? Not easily done. There are no Dreadlords today.

But there are members of the Black Ajah, who are Dreadlords in all but name. And Sheriam can lie. But like I said, she's not a true believer, she did it for the opportunity. Is she being truthful to Egwene here, both in that the technique has not been done in two thousand years and in that she hopes it has never been done? Is that one of the reasons she holds her position, to recruit naturally and hope that things never turn to filling out the numbers in a different fashion?

Egwene stared into the standing mirror, and was not sure whether she was more surprised by the ageless smoothness of her face or the striped stole that hung around her neck. The stole of the Amyrlin Seat.

Like Nynaeve, Egwene's third vision is of a very similar future to the fate she actually gets. Is that common to all of the women who go through these arches, or is it just that their fates are so firm there's nothing to pull from but the truth?

There was an Aes Sedai at her elbow, a woman with Sheriam’s high cheekbones but dark hair and concerned brown eyes, and the hand-wide stole of the Keeper on her shoulders. Not Sheriam, though. Egwene had never seen her before; she was sure she knew her as well as she knew herself. Haltingly, she put a name to the woman. Beldeine.

"Not Sheriam, though." Fun foreshadowing for Egwene's first Keeper and her removal, that.

That thought shook her. Not that she had been Green Ajah, but that she had to reason it out.

Another question is whether the ring broke this vision but not the other two because of repeated exposure, or if the future-predicting aspects of both ter'angreal was the thing that let the resonance grow out of control?

That seemed an odd thought, too. Part of her remembered something called the Great Purge. Part of her was sure no such thing had happened.

A much less important question is if the Great Purge of this timeline was more or less successful than the main timeline, considering how things turned out.

The Flame of Tar Valon lay centered in the floor, surrounded by widening spirals of color, the colors of the seven Ajahs. At the opposite side of the room from where the ramp entered, a high-backed chair stood, heavy and ornately carved in vines and leaves, painted in the colors of all the Ajahs.

Our first look at the hall, even if it is fake. Note the emphasis both in-text and in-universe on all seven Ajahs. Even though there's definitely some problems and changes to come, all are consistently treated as an integral part of the Tower until the breaking.

One of the Red Sitters stood. Egwene was shocked to recognize Elaida. At the same time she knew that Elaida was foremost of the Sitters for the Red, and her own bitterest enemy.

Lucky of Elaida to not get taken by the Seanchan. Perhaps the arches neglected that detail specifically to fuck with Egwene more, or perhaps it was an inevitable consequence of whatever butterfly effect we're dealing with here.

One of the Green Sitters was on her feet, anger bright through her calm. “Shame, Elaida! Show respect for the Amyrlin Seat! Show respect for the Mother!”

Obviously this could be virtually any non-Black Green, but I like to think it's Farnah specifically. Could be Faiselle though if it's one of the three actual Sitters Egwene gets, probably not Rubinde since she's an Elaida loyalist in the real timeline.

As Egwene opened her mouth, Beldeine moved beside her. Then the Keeper’s staff struck her head.

No surprise that Beldeine, one of the women who will be sent to box Rand, would betray Egwene to Elaida even as her Keeper.

The pain in her head made thinking difficult, but it seemed important to count them. Thirteen.

Would being 13x13ed here have truly changed Egwene, I wonder? Was Sheriam hoping it might and trying to play towards it, or is this entirely of the resonance and thus not an outcome she could have predicted?

Flames burst from Myrddraal skin, ripping through black cloth as if they were solid daggers of fire. Shrieking Halfmen crisped and burned like oiled paper. Fist-sized chunks of stone tore themselves free of the walls and whizzed across the room, producing shrieks and grunts as they thudded into flesh. The air stirred, shifted, howled into a whirlwind.

Either Egwene is able to throw around way more power than she should be able to (our girls will later find out that setting Halfmen on fire is actually a rather bad choice, all things considered), or the arches are just playing along with her.

Egwene’s mind put a name to the face. Gyldan. Elaida’s closest confidante, always whispering together in corners, closeting themselves in the night.

We do not ever meet a Gyldan in the main timeline. She may be a real Black who just doesn't get up to much in reality, or perhaps the real Gyldan is even more unremarkable and in this timeline Mesaana replaces her, not the Brown (in which case, good on you for punching her out Egwene!). Perhaps she doesn't exist at all, though Beldeine certainly does.

It was unnerving, trotting through empty hallways. The White Tower no longer held the numbers it once had, but there was usually someone about.

Consider that the White Tower is already at its lowest membership count ever and that in this timeline we have no evidence of the reforms that lead to the Rebels having a larger roster. It may well be that with the Blacks mostly purged (or victims mostly purged, since obviously 13 are still running around), the Tower has virtually no one left at this point.

“What would you have done? What? Nothing! There’s nothing you can do. But they said they could give it back to me, with the power of . . . the power of the Dark One.”

So apparently Nynaeve never cured stilling in this timeline. She and Elayne, and really a wide variety of Aes Sedai who you'd think would be a bit sympathetic to our girl here, all seem to be gone. Has the resonance up and put Egwene in a T'A'R nightmare, is that why things are so incoherent? Can she not remember what happened not purely by glitch in the system but because there's no logical way to arrive at this scenario, so there's no memories to give her?

“More than anyone suspects,” Egwene said. “I never held the Oath Rod, Beldeine.”

This of course should technically be another bit of early installment weirdness where Jordan hasn't decided that the Oath Rod is what causes the ageless look, not channeling as a whole, but since we're in a resonance cascade or whatever it might as well be just another mismatched puzzle piece in the mystery that is this timeline.

It would need to be done quickly; there was no point if Rand was gentled while she was still wrapping Warders in Air. Even Warders would break if she loosed the lightnings on them, and balefire, and broke the ground under their feet.

I love how balefire isn't even the final option here. "I'll shoot them with lightning, and if that doesn't work I'll retroactively remove them from existence, and if THAT doesn't work I'll stick their legs in a rock because if they refuse to be balefired they obviously can't be killed, only slowed down."

Twelve Aes Sedai surrounded him, and another—who Egwene knew had to be wearing a seven-striped stole, even though she could not distinguish it—stood before Rand.

You've got to hand it to Elaida. Very few people have a destiny so set in stone that it comes true in an alternate timeline that isn't really even a timeline, but dammit every variation of her that has ever existed is going to usurp the Amyrlin Seat, and that includes nightmare versions.

Thirteen Aes Sedai. Twelve sisters and the Amyrlin, the traditional number for gentling. The same number as for. . . .

No Egwene, focus on that thought. Sure it's really only because of the metaphysics that everyone's arrived on the same number, but what does it say about the White Tower that its court system is only a mirror image of the Black Ajah's most despicable ritual?

There on the tower top, tilted to sit flat against the sloping tiles, was a silver arch filled with a glowing light. The arch flickered and wavered; streaks of angry red and yellow darted through the white light.

Are they having troubles keeping the door open because of the resonance alone, or because Egwene's scenario is so far off the map it's not normally where the arches point to? I know we'll never know, but both answers provide such rich potential for how the arches work at all. Alas.

Light plucked her apart fiber by fiber, sliced the fibers to hairs, split the hairs to wisps of nothing. All drifted apart on the light. Forever.

Pardon the math joke, but isn't that being a bit hyperbolic, Egwene?

Next time: Egwene recovers from her sorority hazing!

[lioness-of-the-seas]

My thoughts on WOT Prime so far

SPOILERS; WOT PRIME AND EYE OF THE WORLD BOOK

I was sceptical upon my first watch. The pacing is a bit off, and they've cut out a lot of elements I really liked in the first book. The world building too is a little info dumpy, but I guess it's an inevitability.

I feel like Moiraine's introduction in Two Rivers I'd weird. We have already seen her on screen, so why is she getting a grand reveal? It is supposed to evoke a sense of mystery, but we already have met this character, and we know what she wants. It kind of annoyed me that they found out she was Aes Sedai straight away too, as it again takes away this air of mystery. Moiraine at least has a civil conversation in the books with the boys before she is later revealed to be Aes Sedai. Other than that, I thought the performance was amazing. She does have an air of mystery to her, a sense of wisdom and knowledge, whilst being powerful and sure in herself.

Rand, gosh my smol boi. I honestly feel like they are spending less and less time on him because they want to keep the suspense. I felt in the first episode he was pushed to the back, but I guess it's because the entire of Winternight takes place from his point of view. I am a bit upset Tam didn't hand him the blade, and that we didn't see Tam's feverish mutters. Rand's big battle, after the trauma in Winternight, is dealing with the fact that he may not be who he thought he was, beyond being the Dragon Reborn. We don't see much conflict in him, only his reluctance to follow an Aes Sedai (which to be fair was well done).

Mat stole my heart in the first episode. Running out to protect his sisters in the middle of a blood bath? That's a real bloody hero. Do better Rand.

Perrin I do like. His wife I do not. There is conflict. I hate that it's the tragic trope of the dead wife (like John Wick), but then I really like that he kills her. He's in a stupor, and you can see he's doing all he can because he wants to protect the ones he love. He's so zoned out that he ends up striking her instead- blood and ashes. There is the fact that the wife is not developed at all and is just used as a tragic backstory; considering this is a story that has an element of empowerment in it, it's kind of disappointing we see her as nothing more than a prop rather than an actual character. She might have been interesting to actually explore, rather than just have her death part of Perrin's trauma. We don't see them together properly, we don't see them as a couple, so we don't know for sure what Perrin can be feeling. Though in the moment we feel for Perrin, we don't actually feel the pain ourselves.

One thing that kind of annoyed me was Moiraine straight up giving the history of Manetherian to the Emond's fielders just felt weird. It went on for too long and honestly didn't really add much. The song was fine, and if Moiraine needed to give some background, she should've really shortened it or not told it at all. I just felt there could've maybe been more character moments rather than her explaining Two Rivers history.

Moving to more positive things...

I didn't know I needed another reason to have Nynaeve as my favourite character, but episode 3 gave it to me anyhow... Probably my favourite scene so far was her fighting that Trolloc.

Also Lan and Nynaeve are actually brilliant. Knife to the throat trope? Check. Kinda sceptical but into each other? Check. Lan being challenged in his Warder skills? Check. I see what you're doing, Amazon. Though a lil put off by the tying up situation, the rest I approve. Lan looking simultaneously annoyed and attracted is what I needed from this show.

Egwene is great. She and Nynaeve have literally been lifted right from the books and onto screen, because their portrayals are immaculate.

Overall I'm enjoying it. Good fights and decent dialogue. I am hyped for the next episode!!

[cinaja]

I first got into wheel of time through the show but am now about 3/4 through Eye of the World and I love both show and books, but I have to say that while the show changed a lot from the books, I think they made good calls on most of their changes? (Except for the obvious fridged wife issue.) This might just be the first time I ever say that about an adaption, but I think they did the right thing in straying from the books in several areas. This is not to say that the plot points the show changed were bad in the books, just that I think that the books, much as I enjoy them, are impossible to make into a successful TV show without significant changes.

I get wanting an adaption to include all of the beloved scenes from the books, but I honestly can't see myself (or many others who hadn't read the books yet) enjoying the show that much if it had stuck extremely closely to the books. Mostly because the start in the books is just incredibly slow and even for me who was already hooked from the show, it took some effort to get through it. Most of the really interesting worldbuilding is revealed only gradually. The characters spend a good proportion of the book just being dragged along by the plot (in the form of the bad guys chasing them and Moiraine and Lan telling them what to do) more or less willingly. Besides, none of the characters start out especially unique or interesting. They all have their unique personalities, of course, but there's nothing that really sets them apart from other fantasy protagonists. What does exist in the books is a sort of implied promise that there will be stuff happening with them, that there is more than we see, that we'll just have to stick around and watch them because there will be something interesting coming there. (All of which is legitimate for the books and even works for a large part because of the subtle ways narration and POV keep tension up and keep readers interested. Besides, the massive scale of the series goes hand in hand with a slow start and anyone who starts reading knows what he's signing up for. But that doesn't work for a TV show with a much bigger audience that will not happily sit through several episodes before things really kick off, or wait around patiently for the main characters to fulfil their promises of becoming interesting.) Not to mention that in our time (which is several decades after the books were published), the Ordinary Farmer Fantasy Protagonist is a bit of a cliché and "Wait for the not overly unique white guy with a crush on the girl from his village to get Super Special Powers" is... not really the promise that will draw people in.

I think centering Moiraine and Lan so much in the series was a brilliant decision. As a non-book reader, they were what hooked me to the story immediately when I started the series. There were two characters who were interesting right off the bat, who provided the story with the very concrete goal of finding and protecting the Dragon Reborn (and proceeded to work for that actively, which made the entire protagonist-side feel much more active because the people doing the protecting were as much the focus as the ones being protected) and also immediately introduced the unique bits of the worldbuilding. The focus on them was what gave the Edmond's Field kids the time to develop and grow on me as the viewer. And if some of the mystery surrounding Moiraine and Lan in the books was lost in the process... well, it's honestly a small price to pay. And I think the show's "We know we are looking for the Dragon Reborn, but we don't know which of these five it is" works just as well as the books' "We don't know what the dark wants with these three, but it's pretty clear to the reader that Rand will be The One".

Similarly, I think cutting down the amount of travel scenes made sense for the show. Don't get me wrong, I adored the travel scenes following Shadar Logoth, that was when the books really started to draw me in on their own, without the show needed as back-up, but I still think they wouldn't work for a TV show. A lot of what makes these scenes work in the book is the narration, the constant sense of fear and being chased, as well as the worldbuilding and all the questions that keep being brought up. But that type of thing just doesn't translate well into movie format, and watching the show, I don't think I would have appreciated episodes of travel scenes where I am constantly introduced to new characters who all only get brief appearances before disappearing again (and apparently reappear later on, which is brilliant in a book series and something I am looking forward to a lot, but would probably have overwhelmed me hopelessly in a show) and the several run-ins with various servants of the Dark that worked well in the books would probably have felt repetitive quickly in the show.

[jackoshadows]

Wheel of Time/WOT spoilers and WOT book spoilers for the finale.

BOOK SPOILERS - LOOK AWAY IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS

------------------------------

So, I liked that episode. I was a bit nervous hearing a lot of folks hated it based on leaked spoilers, but surprisingly I did end up liking it.

First, the WTF moments in the episode....

- Moiraine got Stilled? WTF!!

- Egwene healed death? And that too unknowingly? WTF!!

- What the hell was happening with the hints about Mat’s darkness? Where are they going with Mat’s character!!

I liked LTT and Latra Posae’s prologue in the nursery lol. I love the casting for LTT. I absolutely loved that glimpse at the futuristic Age of Legends. I wouldn’t mind a sci fi/fantasy spin off of the Age of Legends. But Latra is now the Tamyrlin? Why was that change needed?

I do get where a lot of fans are coming from with regards to Rand and Tarwin’s gap. Yes, after downplaying Rand all season, this was the moment they should have decisively demonstrated the power of the Dragon Reborn and why Rand is the Dragon Reborn - and Rand taking out the Trollocs at Tarwin’s Gap like he does in the books would have done that.

But, I also liked the way they did this here.

Rand Vs Forsaken (Ishamael?) and the Aes Sedai/Fal Dara soldiers taking on the Trollocs at Tarwin’s Gap was well done IMO. We will get another chance of Rand Vs Forsaken plus Rand aiding in battle at Falme - more or less a repeat of the Eye of the World battle, so we can see Rand’s power there. Plus Eye of the World Rand is just a beginner - he doesn’t understand his own power. So what we got makes sense IMO.

I also loved that Rand’s ‘Battle’ with Ishamael is tied to Eastern philosophy/Buddhist philosophy. The Buddha having said that - ‘Desire is the root cause of all evil’ and it’s fitting that the Dark One tempts Rand with desire. And Rand’s choice is rooted in giving importance to what Egwene wants. Feminist Rand is awesome. I liked that his battle is not just a lot of CGI weaves and lightning but is about being human and our needs and wants. Plus, I thought that Josha Stradowski did an amazing job and I am excited to see what he can do moving forward.

I am not really worried about Loial when they have Nynaeve to do the healing. I am guessing that since Mat is healed, and Padan Fain stole the horn and the dagger, they will be chasing after him to help Loial instead of Mat.

That said, how did Fain get the dagger? Last we saw Moiraine had it.

I hope the show/Rafe Judkins know what they are doing with Mat’s character. That’s a fan favorite/very popular character and the masses will be coming for Rafe Judkin’s head if he messes Mat up.

Also a bit disappointed with Perrin. He got to do nothing in the finale. Why did Padan Fain let him live if he’s so important?

Death can be healed by channeling? Which means we are not going to get that poignant scene of Rand trying to bring to life that little dead girl and Moiraine telling him that not even the DR can heal death... Apparently on the show he should now be able to.

Nynaeve sends Lan to bring back Rand ❤️❤️❤️

We got the Lan/Nynaeve dialogue from the books ❤️❤️❤️

Loved Agelmar and Amalisa’s last stand against the Trollocs. I loved the Aes Sedai linking and using the power against the Trollocs. And that even with Nynaeve’s massive power source, they all got burnt out - meaning there is a cost to their use of the power taking out that massive horde of Trollocs.

Loved Amalisa’s armor. And I noticed a Malkieri/Borderlands Aes Sedai with a Bindi on her forehead and got all excited. The Battle at Tarwin’s Gap was short but not too bad.

I am guessing they are going to advance/bring forward Nynaeve’s arc in the  books with respect to being able to heal stilling next season.

All in all, a decent finale. I enjoyed it - Especially the Rand/Moiraine scenes and the fight at Tarwin’s gap.

[butterflydm]

2x7 - daes dae'mar (more thoughts)

I threw some thoughts out last night before I went to sleep because they were bouncing around in my brain and I wanted to get them down but I wanted to expand on some of that this morning.

Two things we were told in 2x1:

every choice has consequence(s)

alone, we are exposed but, together, we can be a shield wall

We have seen a lot of consequences coming to roost on people's heads this season. One that seems to have surprised a lot of viewers is that we are seeing big consequences from Moiraine and Lan's twenty years of secrecy. Which is both things wrapped up together - the choices they've made have isolated them. While in some cases that's a good thing (Liandrin knowing about the Dragon Reborn hunt would have been very bad!), they've also now had two different Sisters willing to go against Tower law in order to help them (Verin & Alanna).

Choices and consequences.

Moiraine lets Rand go at the Eye of the World in 1x8 -> it takes her until 2x4 to find him again, and it's only after one of the Forsaken has already been manipulating him for months.

Moiraine hides her weaknesses and fears even from the people she loves most -> the people that she loves worry about her intentions. Lan had to go on an entire season-long journey to come to terms with being shut out of Moiraine's head; Siuan has only just learned that Moiraine has been lying to her by omission for six (!) months. (Siuan has just as much right to be angry over this as Rand's loved ones have to be angry with him over lying about being dead imo)

Lan keeps Moiraine's secrets at any cost -> Alanna, Ihvon, and Maksim note his shady behavior and are worried that he's a Darkfriend.

I find both Alanna's worry in 2x5 and Siuan's worry in this episode to be incredibly reasonable reactions to the actual information they had been given (or not given).

Not telling the people you love what you're afraid of or about your failures creates separation (one of the themes of the season). It happened with Moiraine and Lan, and now it's happened with Moiraine and Siuan.

So Siuan has, for the last six months, believed that Moiraine was in control of the situation with Rand. Siuan sent Logain to Cairhien so that he could teach Rand and otherwise has been hands-off, trusting Moiraine to do what was needed to be done. And she just found out that this appears to have been a huge mistake - the Dragon has no control over his power, enough so that Siuan was able to easily shield him. He's barely been taught at all. And at the end of the episode... Moiraine feels betrayed because Siuan used her Oath against her; Siuan feels betrayed because Moiraine help the Dragon break out of Tower control using the help of one of the Forsaken. Even if you strip away Siuan wondering if Moiraine is a Darkfriend/Black Ajah (and given that she straight-out accuses Moiraine of lying, Siuan must be wondering if Moiraine is BA), Moiraine's actions look terrible. Especially since I'm assuming Moiraine didn't mention Lanfear in any of her letters either.

Rafe mentioned that one of the priorities about this season was making sure that the stage would be set for The Shadow Rising and I definitely am feeling that way in this plotline especially. We've just set up the fault lines that will lead to the coup and we've set up chaos in Cairhien.

Choices and consequences.

Rand leaves his loved ones behind, cutting his past life off behind him -> leaving him incredibly emotionally vulnerable when 'Selene' comes to call on him. We are still seeing the consequences of that initial choice unravel. His choice to try to strike it out alone has meant that he has no clue what he's doing.

Mat stays behind at the Waygate, confirming to himself that he's a coward -> again, this opens the door to emotional vulnerability. Something that both Liandrin and now Ishamael are taking full advantage of, pressing on that button of self-loathing in the hopes that it will break, and Mat will break with it.

This season has been making it clear, over and over, that it is a choice to be united, not something that happens by default. You don't have to come with me; you don't have to stay; you don't have to help. Nynaeve tells this to both Egwene and Elayne; in a reversed way, Elyas tells this to Perrin (you can come with me instead of helping your friends who were captured); Rand tells this to Mat.

Moiraine has spent all season trying to make it impossible for Lan to stay by her side, because she believes that she can't protect him without her powers. But that's Lan's choice, not Moiraine's. This fight is his too, not just hers. We see this echoed in Anvaere's storyline -- Moiraine doesn't even know that her life was threatened! She doesn't know that Anvaere destroyed all her hopes and dreams of the future, and of her son's future, to save Moiraine's life. And Anvaere did this in the full belief that Moiraine doesn't love her (which I don't think is true, but Anvaere absolutely believes it). Anvaere will lose everything and gain nothing out of this... except that she is doing the right thing.

It matters to Anveare that she does the right thing, even if it costs her dearly. Even if it costs her everything.

And this is exactly what Siuan does too -- I love that both Siuan and Moiraine make extremely terrible choices because they believe those choices are necessary to save the world -- which ties them into what Renna tells Egwene this episode in a fascinating way. We are definitely getting our Rand & Egwene parallels in 2x6 & 2x7!

Doing the right thing is a choice. But it's a choice that you need accurate information in order to make good decisions about. Lan did a lot of fact-finding recently, and what he learned helped him parse out what 'the right thing' was in the cloud of possible right things.

Nynaeve actually said something like this, back during 1x7 -- Moiraine has already made her choice, now it's time for the Two Rivers' group to make theirs. She does not get to make it for them. And that's what we're seeing this season. We're seeing all of these other players on the board making their choices (and seeing how information, or lack of information, informs those choices).

(which also ties into the theme of cages and freedom; we have to be given the freedom to make choices. Which ties into... well, something that is more spoilery than my tag, so I will stop there.)

[geek-and-destroy]

This is a Verin Sedai simp blog now - Wheel of Time Read

This is post 11 in The Wheel of Time Read - see the previous post - covering chapters 18-42 of book 2.

A few days ago, I started reading The Wheel of Time, Robert Jordan’s sprawling fantasy series. And - you know what skip this intro shit, I have some explaining to do.

So. I usually like to go like 5-10 chapters before I post an update to this thing. I had midterms this week so I thought I wouldn't get enough time to read or write. But guess what.

Like the excruciating allure of saidin, the book called to me. I'm pretty sure I flunked an exam or two in the process, but the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills. (Yes, I have now started using this phrase as a way to skirt personal responsibility. No, I will not stop.)

Robert Jordan, I feel, is making full use of the ungodly amount of pages at his disposal to slowly dissect every aspect of the sprawling world he's laid out. I have to say, the 'I have won again, Lews Therin' part with the glimpses of different AUs was well fucking done. Has to be one of my favourite parts of this series so far, along with Moiraine's Manetheren speech way back in book one.

And it was so great getting there, too! SO! MUCH! STUFF! First, there was the big statue that activated Rand's saidin, (another well-written scene btw) then you had the whole thing with Rand being treated as a lord - growing into it, even - and Daes'daemar. I love how Rand just doing nothing played into his supposed mystery, getting major clout just by sitting on his ass. Well, he didn't really sit around the whole time in Cairhien. He went and met Thom! (side note: I was kinda disappointed he didn't stay dead, honestly - an impactful death is yet to occur in WoT - but the character has much more in him than that. Guess what, though. The one real, impactful death has been Thom's protege girl, who was kinda fridged tbh. There's only so much fridging you can avoid in such a huge series, I suppose. Some characters exist solely to further another character's story, it's just like that sometimes.) The feast at Barthanes' mansion, Machin Shin, Barthanes' death, the stedding!! Loial is the hottest, most valid Ogier ever, he must be protecc at all costs. The Portal Stone to Toman Head, way out in the west. It's a lot.

... Rand's going to be blamed for Galldrian's death, isn't he? Since he went to prime rival Barthanes' party over Galldrian's. Whenever he declares himself/is outed as the Dragon Reborn, that is. Oh, well. I'm willing to bet Thom had a hand.

There were also exotic Domon and Fain POVs showing an entirely different culture from the one we've seen so far. Even Shienar was similar to the mainland civilization. I'm soorta iffy about the whole damane thing. It's interesting, changing the power dynamics of channelers, but with an adaptation being made, I'm worried about its potential fetishizability. At least Turak dude seems like an interesting character. And guess what? Another matriarchy! Again, with patriarchal systems and trappings intact, but hey. Will we get to meet this Empress? I hope so.

Meanwhile, Egwene and Nynaeve! In Tar Valon!! Meeting Elayne and Min! They don't hate each other! Delightful Aes Sedai lore galore! empty boi Logain strolling around, making me pity him. Nynaeve choking the Amyrlin was also great. Rage-activated magic, is Nynaeve the Hulk? She wears green in the show, too - is Hulk-coding a thing now? Anyway, I am gushing over all of these dynamics.

All except two, that is. Firstly, every young woman is still inexplicably attracted to Rand. I suppose I'll have to live with it. Rand certainly isn't a wish-fulfilment character, so that's a bit better. A bit. But I really don't like MC attraction syndrome that plagues much of fiction. And secondly - man, I so didn't imagine Liandrin to be an actual Darkfriend. She was an antagonist, definitely. But I thought she would be the 'good intentions + zeal' type antagonist who realizes how her methods are helping the Dark One rather than defeating him and then dies in a heroic sacrifice. Her being a Darkfriend somehow takes away from her villainy. She becomes a less interesting villain this way. Bleh.

But enough about those others. It's time for the real best character.

I love her, your honour.

Verin, you fucking beaut. You non-good-looking, sharp, amazing wise beaut. If Robert Jordan (or Sanderson) kills her, I will lose it. Moiraine who? Nynaeve who? I only know Verin. Whoever underestimates her or calls her book smart can kindly die mad about it. Fuck off please, we don't need you here. That includes you, Moiraine and Siuan Sanche. You give her all the respect in the world or you will suffer.

I'm really glad to know that the whole 'Brown Ajah wouldn't survive five seconds in the real world' stuff was from the characters as opposed to the narrative. At least that's the case for Verin. Even though she hasn't faced Darkfriends and/or Trollocs directly yet, (in front of our characters, that is) she's shown great real-world smarts and none of the characters would survive without her. Plus, she understands the value of keeping Rand's secret, and chides him when he uses too much of saidin. In most stories, she would've been the 'curious to the point of madness' type one who would encourage Rand to channel just to study it, but nope, not Verin. Also:

"And what I learned after nearly being caught by the snows in the Mountains of Mist and freezing my way across Almoth Plain – was absolutely nothing."

Oh, she's definitely been places, seen things. I can't wait to see her in action and absolutely steamroll Moiraine and anyone else in terms of efficiency and conflict resolution. No, she probably won't be using big, flashy magic, but everyone will be safe as well as closer to the goal. I'm a Verin simp now. Deal with it.

(Moiraine also had an interesting little side quest with the bits of prophecy, but I don't remember much of it rn, so yeah. Hopefully, we'll see her on Toman Head.)

[primeideal]

Wheel of Time Episode 8: The Eye of the World

Okay well...that was certainly...an episode that happened. (Book spoilers, though hopefully not major.)

Old Tongue scene! Props to the conlangers, who are they? Jordan left behind a pretty extensive glossary for the Old Tongue afaik that made it into one of the new encyclopedias, but not much in the way of grammar/syntax. Is there an equivalent of David Peterson and Dothraki out there? (Nerd cred, I don't really care about Game of Thrones, but I've met Peterson in person and he is just as delightful as his internet persona would indicate.) Huh, I got the impression that the baby was Latra's because she was saying "I can't condone the risk of attacking," with a subtext of "I've got a future to live for, we can't destroy the world." But no, it's Lews'. Lews and Latra aren't together in this timeline, are they? That would kind of undercut the "men and women need to work together platonically sometimes!" vibes. Lews is the "Dragon Reborn," not just the "Dragon." How far back does this name/identity go? Flying cars and cool architecture! Love this Age of Legends glimpse. "Don't touch anything here" How well did that work for you last time, Moiraine? Yesss, we got the Lan/Nynaeve scene! Although I feel like even Lan is smart enough to realize that Nynaeve specifically wants him even if she goes to the White Tower? Dream within a dream, creepy. And Ba'alzamon's face is a squick :( "Burn their goat-kissing hides" It's Uno, hello Uno! Or is he not supposed to be part of the cast until season two? If so, who's the one-eyed potty mouth dude? How has Lan never picked up on Moiraine's tell in 20 years? (I get that he's not looking, but still.) Lan and the seven towers, awww. Parallel universe scene! This isn't how things go down in EotW, but it ties into enough cool "now we are looking at what things could be like in a parallel universe" scenes in the books that I don't mind. Where are the Emond's Field people when this battle stuff is going down? ...oh here they are (a few moments later) "I'm standing" :D Loial! Moiraine with her knife at Rand's throat ayyyyy that's our girl, and by our girl I mean our adult independent magic woman, but still, characterization win! The Horn of Bloody Valere is buried under the throne of Fal Dara to be used at the Last Battle which, based on the Shienarans' limited knowledge, this probably is!!! Hahaha, I had wondered when they started digging, but this is a fun twist. Rand using Egwene's autonomy and respect for her own decisions to recognize the illusion! Is this...character development for our boy??? Padan Fain holding the Horn and monologuing to Perrin makes me wonder if Perrin is going to get some of Mat's book plotlines. Five ta'veren? Um...so...that happened. I actually think the changes to Rand's plotline, while a departure from the books, make sense. Like, the Dark One trying to lure him into a trap via a parallel universe, and Rand recognizing the limitations of the parallel universe via other people's agency, is covering a lot of ground thematically, but it works for Rand.  Also, the fact that the baby is named "Joiya" is the kind of detail that would have been so easy to do whatever, put in the prop designer's name because she's awesome--the fact that Judkins and co. picked that out shows that they do have an attention to detail and are fans doing a labor of love. 

But. With everything else, I'm a little underwhelmed, and share some of the cynicism expressed on Reddit. Lan miraculously finds Moiraine just because Nynaeve showed him how? Perrin just watches Padan Fain run away with the Horn and is so easily taunted out of fighting back because violence bad? Egwene being able to miraculously resurrect Nynaeve would make no sense in terms of power creep for future stuff, but I'll give the writers some credit and assume that Nynaeve just tried to sacrifice herself but her magic was just that strong that she wasn't completely dead and bounced back, tbh, from Nynaeve, I'd buy it. But like...how are any of these people getting back together next season? And then "meanwhile, on the other side of the continent, war was beginning"? Like, if I wasn't a book fan, I think I'd be pretty annoyed at that ending.

[thebookwormdaydreamer]

Wheel of Time Episode 4 Review

Contains spoilers for the show.

The show just keeps getting better and better. Episode 4 is where we start to see the world get bigger, see beyond the Two Rivers kids and get a glimpse of what the larger world looks like, and more of the Aes Sedai. Episode 4 also showcases more of WoT’s approach to fantasy: lots of showy magic and powerful people.

The title of this episode is The Dragon Reborn. No, the Dragon Reborn isn’t revealed yet. The show insists on obfuscating their identity until Episode 7, if IMDB is to be trusted. I think the show is quite successful in doing this, with a lot of red herrings and moments that make you think that one person might be the DR. However, I do think that it comes at the cost of the real DR’s characterization, more on this later. The title of the episode is The Dragon Reborn because we get more lore about the Dragon, what it means to be the Dragon, and a little more broadly, about what it means to be a man who can channel. In this episode, we’re introduced to Logain, a powerful male channeler and False Dragon.

Logain’s role is expanded in the show. We actually get to see him in Ghealdan where he comes from and where he first proclaims himself as the DR. We see a conversation with his king and in this sequence, we actually see a lot of foreshadowing for what might happen when the real Dragon comes. As a side note, I got a little excited when we saw Ghealdan. The world of the Wheel of Time is vast and populated with many peoples and cultures and I’m very excited to see how they show them. Logain is portrayed a bit like a cult figure, a charismatic man able to recruit followers, even enemies. However, we also see the “taint” on the male half of the One Power, a corruption that causes any man who wields it to go mad. A lot of what happens to Logain in the books are implied, but the advantage of the show is being able to show us how powerful he is, how difficult it was to contain him, and the madness that comes with men wielding the One Power.

Thom’s conversation with Rand echoes that last point. Men go insane because of the corruption which is why the Red Ajah would “gentle” them or cut them off from being able to use the One Power. However, it comes at the cost of them losing the will to live. Power in the show is depicted as somewhat grandiose, it looks incredible and you can feel that for the people who wield it, doing so must feel incredible. But, the costs of doing so are great and even more for men.

The Aes Sedai get more of a spotlight in the show. We meet the Red Ajah again, a group of Aes Sedai who track down rogue channelers and male channelers, as well as the Green Ajah, or Aes Sedai who specialize in battle. We see more of the factionalism between the Aes Sedai, but we also see how they work together when push comes to shove. These are powerful women with a lot of experience, but we still see that they have to work as a unit when faced with the kind of power Logain has. The Red Ajah also get a more nuanced portrayal from what we see in the cold open of the first episode. When Moiraine says that he is like a flickering candelight in front of the raging sun that is the Dragon Reborn, you have to wonder how powerful the DR is going to be. I like how we see more of the relationship between Aes Sedai and their Warders besides Moiraine and Lan. The Green Ajah in particular, are known for their love of men and the fact that they take multiple warders (often necessary considering that they are the Battle Ajah). The portrayal of polyamorous relationships is a welcome one.

Lan and Nynaeve get some relationship development and bond a little bit. They have so much chemistry and work together really well. Nynaeve gets an incredible moment at the end of the episode that will leave jaws dropping. This is only the fourth episode so I really can’t wait to see what they do for the other epic moments in the books, or new moments they might add to the show. Nynaeve is a person with a lot of rage within her, but above all, a desire to care for people, to heal others. It comes out so well and naturally, like yes, this is Nynaeve.

One of the things I like about this adaptation is that it’s not a scene by scene adaptation. In fact, this episode diverges a lot from the books while capturing the spirit and essence of The Wheel of Time. It’s an example of the whole series being adapted, not just one book. Thus, we see things that were previously implied and it keeps things fresh for book readers.

I like Egwene and Perrin’s arc this episode. I reread the first book recently and thought their arc there was a bit weak. It’s much better here and you get to see the culture of the Tuatha’an and The Way of the Leaf which is a non-violent philosophy that the Tuatha’an follow. The Way of the Leaf is sold much better in the show and you understand more why some people may follow it. Making it more personal rather than philosophical adds such a human touch and really helps me understand it more.

The adventures of Mat and Rand also continues, this time with Thom. Mat is having some problems. He’s going through things and changing, becoming broody and paranoid. Thom thinks he might be able to channel and advises Rand to keep him away from the Aes Sedai. Rand reassures Mat he’s there for him and says that he’ll still be there even if Mat goes mad. I think that this sequence is so good and you see how much Rand cares for his friends. We also see Mat have a moment with a little girl who probably reminded him of his sisters. Mat in the show is shown to be more vulnerable and I really enjoy his characterization.

Overall, it’s a great episode, easily the best of what we’ve got so far. Some book purists might get mad but I like the expansive feel. It helps set up the world more and more lore and hints get dropped. A whole lot of foreshadowing and easter eggs too which book fans might enjoy.

Lastly, I just want to talk about my complaint regarding the Dragon Reborn. Right now, a lot of hints are being dropped regarding different characters. In the books, it’s immediately obvious who the DR is, but not in the show. This is not a bad thing. My complaint is that by spending as little time as possible with the DR, their characterization is harmed. I don’t know, maybe I’m a little impatient to see the flashback scenes we’re promised, but right now they seem a little bland without the crucial scenes that establish their character. I hope future episodes make up for this because the DR is one of my favorite fantasy protagonists.

That’s it for this episode. As usual, the bonus origin story- this time explaining the two halves of the One Power, saidin and saidar- is great. The show keeps getting better and better (especially after rewatching) and I can’t wait to see the rest. If the first three episodes weren’t enough to sell you this story, watch this episode.

[flameraven]

Wheel of Time Liveblog - Ep 4

Reminder: I have read a summary of Book 1 (mostly) but not the book itself, Roommate read through Book 5 or 6, but doesn't remember much.

We are in Ghealdan! Which... doesn't mean anything because we still have no idea where anything in this world is. Our dude from the first episode is leading an attack/attempted coup? You can tell his magic is corrupted/evil because it's all shot through with black. He's also got creepy shadow figures talking to him. I do really like that he fights off the voices and heals the guy instead of killing him. The corruption can be resisted. Points for diversity in our man hating Red Squad, even if I'm not entirely sure how I feel about hijabi in a world that doesn't have Islam. If you're Muslim: Do you appreciate the representation? Or does it feel weird since it's not your actual religion? I'd honestly be curious to hear. Green Lady to Moiraine: you know that wound woulda healed faster if you'd washed it. Me: that's what I've been saying!!

Honestly I would assume you'd get a LOT of false Dragons. How many petty cult leaders say they're Jesus reborn? If the Dragon only shows up every 3000 years... honestly the false Dragons seem likely to be more useful. I just want to point out that magic aside, Logaine can't lay down in that cage, and I don't think he can stand. That's inhumane. I guess their magic keeps him in like, stasis so he doesn't have to eat or pee or anything? But still. I like this conversation between Morgaine and her friend. Makes them feel like real people. I do love how Nynaeve is just done with everybody's shit and absolutely does not trust the Aes Sedai as far as she can throw them. Hey, Rand actually did something. Nice Diplomacy roll. Eh. I'm never a fan of fantasy pacifism where you're not allowed to defend yourself. Force is often the only language assholes understand. Otherwise I really like Traveler Grandma. Uh oh, Mat has Evil Dagger sickness. Oh no, now the gleeman's told us his tragic backstory. He's definitely gonna die, huh. Oh nooooo Mat was possessed/sleepwalking and everybody was murdered D: Did Mat do it, or the Nazgul? And they left the gleeman behind to fight it. :( Yeah he's totes dead. I really like the rapport they're building between Lan and Nynaeve! Makes sense that the army would come to rescue their cult leader. The Aes Sedai's camp seems.... not as well defended as it should be, tbh. Nynaeve you need a better knife if you're gonna be stabbing people. Logain's escape is legitimately badass, well done. He's very charismatic, too. I see why people follow him. No! Green Lady!! You were so cool! Ooooh Nynaeve goes full Avatar State to save everybody. Nice. Overall: Okay, this episode won me over, I am legitimately impressed. This episode gave us some great character moments and fleshed out the Aes Sedai as a group, including giving us some internal tensions. My hope for this series was that I would get the story while cutting out all of Jordan's long-winded, pointless rambling, and it really seems like they've succeeded at that. (We've also moved away from the blatant LotR ripoffs, which helps.) The ending was properly dramatic, comparing Logaine's magic to Nynaeve's "radiance like the sun" and really gives us a good demonstration of what kind of power the Dragon can hold. That is good worldbuilding, and way more effective than any infodump about history. It's just a shame Nynave isn't actually the Dragon and we're going to have to watch Rand be the hero instead. Who, despite his small moments, is still pretty bland and boring. Does he have goals? Or feelings about this potential destiny? Or the adventure so far? We haven't really seen it. The whole thing about the male Power being corrupted, though... ech. I mean, the gender essentialism is not great to start with, but also... it feels very ableist. The "corruption" of the magic feels a lot like OCD or other mental illness with intrusive thoughts, and the idea that anyone who has it will inevitably go crazy and become violent and dangerous is just.... Big Yikes all around. Especially because we see Logaine fight off the impulse to violence. And then... "Gentling." That's a very nasty sounding euphemism. It's unclear exactly what the magic is doing to cut off his connection, but if you're gonna make your magic a metaphor about weaving, it sure sounds like you're just slashing a big ol' hole in the fabric. And their excuse is "well we didn't kill him so it's fine." I would really like to see the Aes Sedai face some consequences for the harm they're causing with misuse of their powers-- but I doubt Jordan thought that far into it. I am excited to see how things progress!

[apocalypticavolition]

Let's (re)Read The Dragon Reborn! Chapter 12: The Amyrlin Seat

I hope you weren't expecting me to take a long break and come back with a long chapter, because this entry is shorter than Moiraine! And yet I still manage to casually drop spoilers for late in The Wheel of Time, so you probably shouldn't keep reading if that's a problem.

This chapter starts with the Flame of Tar Valon icon because it's a POV of the very flame herself: Siuan.

For the hundredth time since being told that Verin had returned, she readjusted her stole on her shoulders without realizing what she was doing.

It's funny that it no longer quite fits her now that her successor Egwene is in the Tower. IIRC, her other successor is present as well...

A small Tairen rug lay in front of the table, woven in simple patterns of blue and brown and gold. A single drawing, tiny fishing boats among reeds, hung above the fireplace. Half a dozen stands held open books about the floor. That was all. Even the lamps would not have been out of place in a farmer’s house.

Siuan parallels with Rand quite well here, two leaders of the world who came from low places and prefer simple lives.

The tall Aes Sedai, as tall as most men, was second only to the Amyrlin in the White Tower, and though Siuan had known her since they were novices together, sometimes Leane’s insistence on upholding the dignity of the Amyrlin Seat was enough to make Siuan want to scream.

On the other hand, we get hints that Siuan isn't a perfect leader. Considering that Egwene's arc is all about upholding the dignity of her position even in the lowest of circumstances - and that it ends specifically on "belief and order lend strength", Siuan's chafing against Leane's respect is something of a mark against her.

“Begin where you will,” Siuan said. “These rooms are warded, in case anyone thinks to use childhood tricks of eavesdropping.” Verin’s eyebrows lifted in surprise, and the Amyrlin added, “Much has changed since you left. Speak.”

A little foreshadowing of how badly things have gone offpage.

Mazrim Taim is in the hands of our sisters in Saldaea, and the poor fellow in Haddon Mirk, the Light have pity on his soul, was taken by the Tairens and executed on the spot. No one even seems to know what his name was. Both were taken on the same day and, according to rumor, under the same circumstances.

I love the lampshading, poor Tairen bastard. I suspect that the suddenness of the falls of these False Dragons has a great deal to do with how poorly this particular iteration of the Third Age is doing against the Shadow: barely enough time for fate to squeeze them in even though at least Taim is necessary to the Pattern and as soon as Rand gets moving reality literally tosses them aside. In other turnings of the Wheel, the falls of the last False Dragons probably happen a little slower than the speed of causality.

“What do you mean? He is to fight Tarmon Gai’don. The Horn is to summon dead heroes from the grave to fight in the Last Battle. Has Moiraine once again made some new plan without consulting me?”

We see again how communication is breaking down among the light; Moiraine has made very few plans except when she's been desperately trying to patch the main plan together while Rand and the Shadow are busy tearing it apart. Yet still Siuan blames her due to the distance and time separating the pair of them.

“So long as Mat lives,” Verin went on, “the Horn of Valere is no more than a horn to anyone else. If he dies, of course, another can sound it and forge a new link between man and Horn.” Her gaze was steady and untroubled by what she seemed to be suggesting.

Of course, just because Siuan isn't a perfect Amyrlin or fully trusting of Moiraine doesn't mean she's evil either. It would be a lot easier for the Tower if Mat were to die that very day - and under the circumstances, few would even think it a deliberate failure of the Aes Sedai. But Siuan keeps Mat alive just the same.

“An apt metaphor, Mother, the lionfish. Once I saw a large shark that a lionfish had chased into the shallows, where it died.”

Verin wasted her life researching the Black Ajah. She should have taught Egwene how to tear Siuan's fish metaphors to shreds instead.

“That is already causing us trouble, Verin, and will cause more as the stories spread, and grow with the spreading. But I can do nothing about that. I am told these people are gone, Daughter. Do you have any evidence otherwise?”

This is another big mistake of Siuan's, as the Seanchan will indeed return very quickly, take a huge chunk of the inhabited continent, and enslave plenty of Aes Sedai and other channeling women before things are over.

But we're nowhere near that yet. Next time: Siuan interviews the Wondergirls!