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emotionallychargedtowel · 2 years ago

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Intense Subtext in Front of Oblivious Side Characters: "I had no wife in the year six"

There's a thing, I guess it would be considered a trope, that is one of my favorite such things in any form of media but especially any sort of romance-centered story. I don't know of an existing term for this and I'm terrible at being concise so I'm not sure how I could put it briefly. Basically, it's the thing that happens when a larger interaction is happening with a group of people but there's a subtext to it that means something very different--and generally, much more meaningful--to the central characters. You could call it something like Intense Subtext in Front of Oblivious Side Characters.

I've been thinking for a while about possible parallels between BLs and Jane Austen novels and/or adaptations. This is my attempt at taking a small, specific example of a parallel I sometimes notice and talking about it. Austen's novels do a lot of this trope I mentioned. That's in part because of choices Austen made in what she wanted to write about. But it's also because of the social context of her time. There was a lot going on that people couldn't be explicit about, for a variety of reasons. I think one reason why I see similar things happening in some BLs--and maybe one reason for the appeal of certain types of BLs--is the fact that being queer in a homophobic society makes openness complicated in a way that doesn't come up as much for hetero relationships these days. Especially when we get into things like office romances, in which appearances have higher stakes. These complications around openness have a kind of similarity to the reasons Austen's characters had to play a lot of things close to the chest.

Fellow Old Fashion Cupcake fans will remember an example from that series that I think really fits here. Nozue and Togawa agree to attend a goukon, or "mixer" as it's sometimes translated--basically a group hangout intended to help men and women meet for the purpose of finding people to date. Nozue is hitting it off with a cute younger woman, which is bad enough. But then he mentions his "anti-aging" efforts, and because of the mysterious way he words it, the woman asks, "Does that mean you're in love?" which of course catches Togawa's attention even more. He's clearly affected when Nozue answers, "If I were, I wouldn't be here."

@jdramastuff did a great screenshot post of this scene if you want to see what this looked like.

After Nozue's comment, Togawa starts knocking back alcoholic drinks like it's going out of style, ensuring that Nozue will have to help him home instead of going home with the woman who's been flirting with him.

(You could argue that this isn't so much a case of subtext as it is the significance one person assigns to what another is saying. Subtext really requires some degree of communication between more than one person. But while Nozue doesn't fully grasp what's going on, I think he does understand in some ways what he's communicating. I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, so I'll just say that having just read the manga the series was based on, it strengthened my belief that while Nozue is repressed, insecure, even deluded at times, he has glimmers of awareness of his feelings for Togawa and even suspicions of Togawa's feelings for him, and on some level he knows what he's saying, though I don't think he knows in this moment how much these words will hurt Togawa.)

I have another favorite example of this, a scene from Persuasion. It's rendered really well in the 1995 adaptation of the novel with Ciaran Hinds and Amanda Root. (The whole thing is phenomenal, by the way--I think it's the best Austen adaptation ever made, personally.)

A bit of background for anyone not familiar with the story: Anne Elliott was engaged to Captain Frederick Wentworth in 1806 but was convinced by Lady Russell, her neighbor/family friend and a kind of surrogate mother to her following her mom's death, to break off the engagement. She has regretted it ever since. Wentworth was deeply hurt and angry when she broke things off, not surprisingly.

More than eight years later, Anne is visiting her sister and her sister's in-laws, the Musgroves, when Wentworth comes to the area and starts spending a lot of time at the Musgrove place (and with the Musgroves' eligible young daughters). Wentworth acknowledges Anne, but just barely, while paying enough attention to both the Musgrove girls that everyone is gossiping about which one he's going to marry. Anne's sister Mary was away at boarding school when her previous relationship with Wentworth happened, so neither Mary nor the Musgroves are aware Anne and Wentworth were involved and think they were only acquaintances.

At a dinner party, the Musgrove girls try to look up the ship that Wentworth first commanded, the Asp, in the Navy List, a book that chronicles the various ships in the British Navy, their commanders, and so forth. Wentworth tells them not to bother--"she" is not in the current version of the List because "she" no longer exists.

Louisa and Henrietta Musgrove are suitably horrified.

Admiral Croft, Wentworth's brother-in-law and superior in the Navy, remarks that Wentworth was lucky to get a command so early in his career at all, no matter how seaworthy (or un-seaworthy) the ship was.

(Remember, 1806 was the year that Anne and Wentworth became engaged and then un-engaged.)

Gut-wrenching. And nobody else sitting at that table has any idea what just happened. I love it.

I have some more thoughts about this languishing in an excessively long post in my drafts, which I'll try to get out one of these days. I know I've talked to a few people about trying to do some BL/Austen posts and had meant to tag them but the only person I remember talking with about it was @absolutebl. If you're reading this and you want a heads up next time I write about this stuff, let me know!

#austen & BL parallels #jane austen #persuasion #persuasion 1995 #wentworth x anne #old fashion cupcake #togawa x nozue #ciaran hinds #amanda root #takeda kouhei #kimura tatsunari #intense subtext in front of oblivious side characters #tropes #I need a better and shorter name for this

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heartscrypt · 1 year ago

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Hii! I have a question about your thoughts on jamiazu.

Do you think that Azul would ever be able to confess any romantic feelings for Jamil? If so, how? And if not, would they be able to get together in any other way?

Sorry if this is a weird question, just curious.

thanks for your question! it is SO not weird at all i really enjoy stuff like this. actually i am going to go on a huge ramble that goes on a little tangent so like. LONG POST AHEAD!!!! be warned!!!!!

anyways. azul is always confessing his romantic feelings for jamil whether he knows it or not. in every interaction. because he's so damn obvious. hope this helps LOL

in all seriousness though. i really like to think that azul is kind of cursed to be a hopeless romantic despite it going against all of his pragmatic sense. i mean. he's a child of divorce who hates leaving things up to chance and he believes in getting something back whenever he gives something away. being head over heels with someone goes against his whole nature, so i think it's definitely a new thing for him. he won't recognize that his feelings are romantic right away because he'll be too busy trying to justify to himself why he's investing so much time and energy into a guy that Clearly wants nothing to do with him and won't give him the time of day. its business, guys, i swear.... stonks.....

i think once he does come to terms with it though. it starts leaking through in Every Interaction he has w/jamil. in every encounter, azul basically ends up saying I Love You without actually ever speaking it out loud. whether it's through his actions (like getting jamil gifts / offering to help out without any genuine expectation of repayment) or or his words (like implying things about them being good together / complimenting jamil excessively). things he did before he realized, but they just have so much more Weight to them now that he Knows he likes the other in a very Non-Platonic-Business-Partners way. he doesn't intend for it to have that emotional weight but its fucking impossible for him to hide and he does NOT know what to do with himself.

he keeps pushing forward regardless because some part of him hopes that his feelings will reach jamil but he also does it with the expectation that jamil will push back like he always has and that's completely fine by him because never actually directly admitting that these feelings are romantic means that the rejections also stay platonic and that is. Way easier to bounce back from. because god forbid jamil sees at who he is behind all the walls he's put up to protect his most vulnerable and emotional self and ends up hating the real azul too.

tl;dr: i don't think azul would go out of his way to make a real, honest confession of his feelings. but he's so obvious it actually hurts to watch

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ok so. as for jamiazu get-together:

maybe im like super biased b/c im a sucker for narratives that involve jamil learning to shake his passivity and going ahead and Taking what he wants. but i always think that any scenario where jamiazu gets together has to be initiated by jamil somehow. azul can make the first move and several moves after that but jamil has to be the one to make the Final move if that makes sense.

i don't have like. one set get-together scenario but i have a couple that i like to rotate in my head sometimes. most of them involve azul being a failgirl and getting caught off guard because i think it's funny and jamil also thinks it's funny. here are two for your viewing pleasure:

azul makes a pass at jamil that is romantic-coded but could be interpreted as platonic. jamil seizes the opportunity to turn it Explicitly into a romantic thing and fluster azul to no end about it.

azul: there's a new tasting menu at the mostro lounge if you'd like to come with me and try, i'd love to see what your discerning palette makes of it ^__^!

jamil, very casually: yeah sure. why not. i'll go on a date with you

azul, who did NOT expect a yes so his head is about to explode in t-minus 5 seconds: oh, uh. that's .fantastic, actually— wait. ....DATE?!?!?;!?

jamil corners azul and admits romantic feelings first. bonus points if it's a situation where any romantic confession would be incredibly out of the blue. and the way that jamil says it is like dropping a bomb on azul

like in potions lab. azul's concentrating very hard on pouring an exact amount of a substance. jamils watching him and at some point out of nowhere he breaks the silence in between them by going "i think i like you. in the romantic sense". azul's concentration snaps immediately and he fumbles the beaker into the cauldron out of sheer WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING. it explodes in both of their faces. they both have no chance to address what jamil said because crewel is chewing them out for the next 15 minutes about lab safety. during the entire 15 minutes azul looks like he's been hit over the head with several bricks. Repeatedly. jamil's smirking the whole time though he dgaf. takes pleasure in flustering azul

anyways. im insane about these guys ♥️ if you stuck around and read the entire post im really sorry for writing so much i just have a lot of thoughts

#twst #twisted wonderland #jamil viper #azul ashengrotto #jamiazu #azujami #jamie talks #txt post #the public forum #again. sorry for the long post. oh god they make me so sicj #delusional posting tbh #the azul hopeless romantic hc is something that is very special to me #something about it is just very good. goes against his entire character but he cant help but Feel that way although he knows its irrational #also a big fan of jamiazu situationship #where jamil still insists that he finds azul insufferable and azul calls jamil his future business partner #but they also make out on a regular basis. so obviously they're both not telling the truth #so fucking funny to me. but thats not what you asked so ill elaborate on that eventually on another post

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roxtron · 1 year ago

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Soo after getting back into fnaf I finally got to play SB and Ruin for myself, and honestly I’m a bit shocked by the debate about who cut the elevator, I thought most people would be in agreement it’s more likely to be the mimic than Gregory but it looks like some of the fandom is pretty conflicted. So for fun I wanted to go through most of the evidence I’ve seen to try and argue why I think it can’t be Gregory.

Of course I could be wrong, anyone could, that’s the nature of this series. I think it’ll be interesting to see where the story goes from here, regardless of which path they take. But here’s my take on it.

I wanna try to keep this more structured than pure rambling so first I wanna go through evidence that suggests it was the mimic. Obviously the first note is the most obvious piece of evidence everyone points out, the subtitles.

While some people think it’s an error or a glitch that the subtitles overlap, or argue that the files state this is the real Gregory, I don’t think that’s enough to disprove it. Why would they want to spoil if it was Gregory or not if that’s meant to be questioned? If it was supposed to be clear-cut that Gregory did cut the elevator, I feel like they’d make it more obvious. The static cut matching with the subtitle ‘glitch’ is way too convenient. And spoiling a plot twist would just defeat the whole purpose.

If it was a glitch, it would’ve been patched. I’ve seen some people argue they experienced this glitch in their playthroughs during SB, but the only times I’ve seen that is when two characters’ dialogue overlaps. I’ve only seen it with separate characters, and the only time I can remember it happening with the same character is if it was intended to be two different scenes, like if I were to get a dialogue trigger for an area while the cutscene dialogue was still playing. (By that I mean the dialogue for the last trigger was still playing by the time I activated another dialogue trigger, the player was likely meant to let the original dialogue finish before starting a new one.) I know it can also happen when you mute the game and it lets all the dialogue overlap, but that’s because they’re separate lines being played at the same time because they’re not playing at all, if that makes sense. Maybe this is because I played SB post-Ruin, but I feel like the argument that it’s a common glitch doesn’t really hold up, especially because this is an ending cutscene, you’d think there’d be more priority on making sure it works as intended. And if it were a glitch, why did everyone get it? Don’t most glitches only happen to some people and not others, and that’s why they don’t usually get caught in development? I know I went off on a long tangent with the subtitle glitch here, but I dunno. I just don’t think it’s a good enough excuse considering other evidence.

Anyway, moving on to stronger pieces of evidence, something plenty of people have pointed out from searching out-of-bounds with youtubers like RyeToast, the battery pack.

The mimic was left right outside the elevator, and the battery powering it right there. Obviously I’m not an elevator mechanic, I wouldn’t know the exact logic behind it, but I’d assume all he would need to do is cut the cords to let the elevator fall.

Some people have argued that’s not how elevators work, since it wouldn’t fall, it would just come to a stop, but I think some people are forgetting about location here. This isn’t a commonly used elevator like the ones that lead to the atrium or attractions, it’s an old elevator in a mostly abandoned building underground. When you use the main elevator to get down there in the base game, Freddy even mentions the elevator doesn’t seem safe, and likely won’t survive more than one trip.

(Though that line still confuses me, considering in that ending they go back up the elevator to get back to the surface. So does he mean one trip there and back?? If that was what he meant then how was the elevator still running by the time of ruin?

Regardless of which ending is canon, they would’ve used the elevator once there and back to trap the mimic in the first place, and then cassie would’ve used it again to get down there.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding Freddy, maybe it was just a gameplay mechanic so you couldn’t go back since it’s endgame stuff, I dunno. Just found that worth mentioning.

Either way, the point is the elevator probably doesn’t have those safety protocols that would make it come to a safe stop.)

That aside, how would Gregory do it? Sure he can hack into communication devices to try to contact Cassie, but that’s all he’s done. It’s not like there’d be a system he can hack into where all he has to do is type a command to cut the elevator. Sure he’s been hacking into all kinds of shit, but there’s nothing he’s hacked into that’s directly resulted in any action similar to this one. Sure he could hack a bot and make a bot do it, but do you really think there would be any bot nearby for him to even attempt that? It just doesn’t make any sense.

I feel like if there’s anything Steel Wool has been consistent with it’s environmental storytelling, we didn’t exactly guess how the mimic got trapped based on dialogue or text. It’s because of the way the vent collapsed, the way the backpack was placed, the fact the walkie talkie had to have been left in a rush, no way they would’ve purposefully given the mimic a communication device to try and manipulate someone with.

So if they took the time to show the battery being right outside the door, right next to the mimic, but never showed us any kind of examples for how someone could remotely cut an elevator like that, it kinda points in one direction a lot more than the other.

Anyway, this section might be a bit all over the place, but I wanna look at some people’s arguments for why it wasn’t the mimic, and attempt to debunk them where I can, which will inevitably lead into further evidence I didn’t include in the first section.

One of the strongest pieces of evidence for why it isn’t the mimic is the voice, some people theorized the mimic may be running some sort of program to splice the audio together, and that’s why he’s only copying specific lines/clipping together sentences towards the end of the game. While that could be true I honestly don't think it is.

While there’s subtle hints throughout the game that it isn’t actually Gregory talking to us, I’d argue that’s what a lot of them are, subtle. Some people point to the camera system using Cassie’s voice as a lure as evidence it can mimic people’s voices. But it wasn’t copying the voice, it was just playing a recording. Every time Cassie's voice played it was that one line from the beginning, “Gregory, are you there?” But it was never a unique line of dialogue she’s never spoken.

I honestly think it’s just a developer choice for that moment to really hit. If you’ve spent the whole game believing this is really Gregory, then by the time you get to Roxy Raceway and he asks you to kill Roxy to save him, all the glitching in that audio lets the realization hit. And I imagine it gives Cassie doubt too, but if you think about it, she’s already hit the point of no return. It’s too late to turn back now, she’s deactivated almost all the nodes, spent an entire night in this place (since it was still daylight when the game starts, but nighttime when we get to the wrecking ball area.) And considering how empathetic she’s shown to be, would she really just walk out because she thinks it isn’t him? Don’t you think there’d be at least some part of her that says “what if it is him, and I’ve just left him here to die?”

Meanwhile when Gregory’s voice was used on the camera systems.. It’s honestly hilarious, I’m surprised nobody talks about it. Maybe it’s because I spent longer in Roxy Raceway than most players did, but his lines definitely fit with his personality. They’re all so taunting, and considering they’re used only against Roxy, I believe they were actually recorded by him, not the system mimicking his voice. The mocking “I’m so scared and alone!” “I’m here, you just can’t see me.” And FUCKING “Marco.. Polo!” (That one’s so evil it always makes me laugh.) You gotta admit that’s definitely something Gregory would do.

Sure the mimic can copy his voice, but it can’t really copy his personality all that well if you read between the lines. The majority of the mimic’s lines for Gregory kinda fall into a few categories. Whiny, demanding, and monotone. With it being more whiny and scared than usual to try and get Cassie to believe it’s really in danger. It being more demanding to get Cassie to push forward. (Strong example being the Monty Golf catwalks, for some reason I struggled to find the Nodes there and he was constantly giving lines like “You really need to get back to redirecting the gondolas” or something along those lines. Trying to get you back on task.) And finally monotone, a lot of his lines can come across as more objective statements than anything, very little emotion involved.

Gregory’s never that whiny or afraid from what we see in the games, sure he has his moments, but in Security Breach his overall attitude isn’t being afraid, just done with this shit. It’s a bit more complicated than that but playing this game in retrospect with that knowledge makes it really interesting. Trying not to spoil the twist for other people led me to looking into all the voice lines, thinking “is that really something Gregory would say?” And the majority of the time, no, not really. I was practically scrambling at points to try and explain some voice lines to my friends trying not to spoil them. It’s not as much of a consistent personality as it is a split, he acts differently when the situation calls for it. Which, duh, that’s how human behavior works, but I hope you get what I mean when I say that.

I got a bit sidetracked but back to the idea the mimic is splicing audio together. While it’s an interesting point that would explain some cut-together dialogue..

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Plus, it’s horror, sometimes characters have to be oblivious for the show to go on, y’know? I think this moment was intended to hit that way. The final confirmation something is definitely off, but as the player, you still don’t know what exactly it is. Because that’s not the reveal, you never find out what’s really been talking to you until you see the mimic in person. It’s another way to draw you in, keep your curiosity. If it did seem like it fully was Gregory players may start to question it in a way that wants them to turn back, but if it’s made clear this probably isn’t Gregory it leaves you to wonder, what the fuck is it?

Point is, I think it was just a developer choice, not something we’re supposed to take as evidence. And my main reason for that is, it’s kind of immediately contradicted.

If you go back and watch the ending over again, he does mainly use pre-recorded lines, but if you look at what he says when Cassie frees him, it’s not pre-recorded. It goes from the pre-recorded, more upbeat and thankful “You saved me!” to monotone, stating it as fact. “You saved me.” If he were splicing together sentences, then where the fuck did that line come from? Maybe I’m just not as observant as I thought, but as far as I’m aware the only pre-recorded “You saved me!” is the one he uses first. The second one is nowhere to be found in SB. It kinda disproves the idea he’s splicing sentences if he immediately after gives us a new line that isn’t spliced. It’s an interesting theory for sure, but I don’t think it adds up.

I was going to go more in depth on the tech stuff happening here but I realized I’ve made this section long enough already so I’ll put it into this section, I don’t think it’s something his character would do.

Now initially I was gonna cut straight to characterization and whatnot, and I will get to that later, but I’m gonna start by going through the tech stuff.

Every time Gregory tries to contact Cassie in-game, it’s usually through a separate piece of tech. I’ve only heard the lines separate from the game, and I’m definitely not data-mining myself, so I can’t prove that this line is the real Gregory, but..

I think one of the first times he contacts her is when you first see Roxy crying in her salon. For one, the timeline would match up. When he talks during the end of the game he says he’s been trying to contact us all night. But Cassie walked into the pizzaplex when it was still bright out, likely in the middle of the day since it doesn’t seem to be sunset, although that could just be my interpretation. If Gregory had been trying to contact her “all night” then it seems like he didn’t realize what was going on until much later in the game. If I’m remembering correctly you don’t see the wrecking ball through the ceiling revealing it’s nighttime until at least halfway through the game.

(Although side note, I’m not sure how the mimic first contacted Cassie to lead her to the pizzaplex in the first place. The game makes it seem like the walkie talkie is the first time they talked but she wouldn’t be here in the first place if she wasn’t told to come here beforehand. Personally I think she was sent a message with the dialogue in the trailer, though I think we’re all collectively confused what device she would’ve received that message from.)

Anyways, if that point is one of the first times he’s contacted her, it would make a lot of sense. If it was the mimic calling to Cassie again, why would it not be from the walkie talkie when it’s still right there in her hand? If it was from the walkie talkie, why would it sound like it was coming from a distance, and why would Roxy run in the opposite direction? Whatever he was attempting to contact her from, it clearly wasn’t the walkie talkie.

Then there’s the rare voice line with the staff bot.

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Once again, he’s trying to contact her through a robot, not the walkie talkie. There’s a possibility he may be able to access the walkie talkie’s signal, but he can’t speak through it. I initially thought he might need cameras for this, and that point kinda stands for the mimic chase, but for this? All he has to do is listen in on the walkie talkie conversation to know which area of the pizzaplex is in. And if he had no way to access the walkie talkie’s signal, how would he even find out about this whole situation? If he found out sometime that night it seems likely to me that he somehow came across the signal and realized what was going on. And if he had 0 access to the walkie talkie.. Wouldn’t it be pretty inconvenient if he’d hacked a staff bot in Roxy Raceway to talk to her while she’s running around Bonnie Bowl?

I’ll talk about that voice line again later but for now I wanna move on to the other lines of dialogue, the last time he’s able to contact Cassie, finally through the walkie talkie.. Is the moment the mimic is busy fighting Roxy and chasing Cassie. I’ve seen some people try to argue even that wasn’t Gregory but that wouldn’t make any sense. If he was still talking on the walkie talkie during the chase wouldn’t she recognize the sound is coming from behind her.. And not the walkie talkie.. Plus, again, the files argument, with other lines being referred to as Grimic and these lines being labelled Gregory.

And this might get a bit too theoretical but here’s my idea, the mimic used a signal jammer to prevent Gregory from communicating with her. That’s why he kept hacking separate signals like the staff bot. Considering he supposedly gives Helpi a signal jammer to prevent M.X.E.S (though to be fair that doesn’t last, it’s still established he can do this.) I don’t think it’s a stretch to say the walkie talkie’s signal was jammed so he couldn’t talk through it, the only times he does talk through it is while the mimic is busy. Even after Cassie gets in the elevator Gregory still might not fully trust the walkie talkie won’t cut him off now that the mimic isn’t busy anymore, that might explain why he hacks into the speaker system when, again, the walkie talkie is still there, isn’t it? Unfortunately for him I think that plan doesn’t work out, the mimic takes over and speaks for him. I think one of the biggest pieces of evidence is cut voice lines.

Getting sidetracked for a bit..

If you look at some of the voice lines labelled to be Gregory, there’s an alternate line for the elevator scene. While the final game says “But we can’t risk being followed.” the cut line instead tells her “But make sure it doesn’t follow you.” This feels a lot more in character, a warning to her instead of a goodbye. I think this may not be a cut alternate ending, but it may be how the conversation would’ve gone if it was Gregory talking. What Gregory meant to say vs. what the mimic told Cassie. While this isn’t solid proof I think this interpretation makes a lot of sense, especially considering all the other evidence.

Another detail about her being tricked, considering the missing posters in Roxy’s salon, this might be the first time she’s talked to Gregory in a long time. He might’ve just left after SB and just stopped talking to her because of how complicated everything’s gotten, thinking it’s better for her not to be involved in all this. Would anyone really want to have the conversation of explaining all that? Telling her the truth about him getting trapped in the pizzaplex, almost murdered by Vanny and the animatronics on multiple occasions?

And another side note, if Gregory had told her what happened to Freddy, wouldn’t she also be questioning that whole situation? She doesn’t seem to have any reaction to the prototype on his foot, just hoping he’s functional. The only endings where Freddy doesn’t escape the pizzaplex are the endings where his whole body is destroyed. (Except the escape ending where Gregory just leaves and gets killed by Vanny after, but that’s not canon for obvious reasons.)

As much as it sucks to be kept in the dark she clearly has been, she has no idea about Vanny or the animatronics being destroyed from what Gregory did to them.

Her only note about seeing Vanny on the cameras being “hey, she’s wearing my mask!” as if it wasn’t worn by her first. And her “What happened to you?” when she sees Chica.

If he were to get the fire escape ending, Freddy dies after pushing himself and Vanny off the roof. While that already feels not-canon because of Vanessa most likely being freed and with Gregory during Ruin, even if you’re one of the people that assumes that ending means Vanny isn’t Vanessa, regardless of argument on that theory Freddy would be broken, and outside the pizzaplex, not in fazerblast.

If he gets the bad Vanny ending, Freddy is fully dismantled with his head still attached and left behind. So why would he have no head in Ruin if that were the ending, especially when the work tables suggest there were technicians trying to repair the animatronics in between SB and Ruin. You’d think putting his head back on would be the first repair they’d make if the head was still there, and this was our Freddy.

TLDR here, point is if Gregory had told Cassie what happened to Freddy, through whatever canon ending that would be, Cassie would’ve known that wasn’t the real Freddy. Personally I think the prototype foot suggests a lot more that this is a red herring, not the Freddy we know, rather than just a retcon.

Sorry for the long tangent, I know it was a bit sidetracked from the main topic here.

Even her Dad’s kept her in the dark regarding secrets like this considering the whole “My Dad wouldn’t tell me what happened to Bonnie.” Whether he knew what happened or not is a different story, but clearly she��s already been kept in the dark about stuff like this. After all it’s a heavy topic to get into, and with Gregory, considering some people still hate him for dismantling the animatronics I don’t think it’s a stretch to say he might worry Cassie would be mad at him for it. Whatever you feel about his character, in his mind it was self-defense. Extreme self-defense, but still. In his mind, the animatronics have spent all night trying to kill him, so if he harms them, it’s really just an eye for an eye, isn’t it? Those upgrades would help Freddy and whether this was his main motivation or just a part of it, upgrading the only animatronic helping him would definitely increase his chances of survival.

But finally I wanna move onto more emotional arguments. It doesn’t seem to fit his character with what we’ve seen so far. Some people will say “wtf are you talking about? If he’s willing to kill the other animatronics he’d be willing to kill Cassie.” But I disagree. I think it’s missing an important part of his character. Yes, he’s been shown hurting other people. The other animatronics, Vanny, but I don’t think he would ever hurt someone he cares about. That’s the difference. The other animatronics were trying to kill him, so was Vanny. It’s not like he antagonized them first or did all this unprompted. He had a reason, and he had no emotional connection.

But have we ever seen him hurt anyone he cares about before this? He never has and I don’t think ever would hurt Freddy. In all the endings something bad happens to him, he cries, in some endings he’s able to do something to fix it, but in others, he’s clearly upset by the loss. Even in cut voice lines, apparently he originally would’ve been crying when Freddy got kidnapped by Moon. He clearly cares about Freddy, and does his best to make sure they can both escape. That’s the balance here. If he really was just a terrible character that doesn’t care about anyone, why would he be so distressed when something happens to Freddy? Why would he bond with him in the first place? Theoretically he could’ve just viewed Freddy as a tool, he is a robot after all, but he didn’t. He bonded with him and cared about him as he would for another person.

Why give her directions for how to escape, why take the time to explain things to her? If he knew how it was going to end, why do any of this at all? I think if you were forced to kill your best friend, you’d probably sound more stressed than that. And it’s not like that’s any sort of voice acting issue, there’s clearly good direction given for there to be a clear difference between the mimic and Gregory during most scenes. He’s had stressed voice lines before, including the lines he has in Ruin, it just doesn’t make sense for him to seem like he doesn’t care at all when he’s been desperately trying to contact her.

If he really was the one to drop the elevator, if he purposefully killed her, why does he seem so cold? If he had to kill Freddy for whatever reason I’m sure he’d be crying about it. Even in the escape ending where he leaves without Freddy he’s crying, and that’s not even an ending where Freddy gets hurt as far as we’re aware. So if Cassie was his best friend, someone he cared about enough to go through all this trouble to help her in the first place, to spend all night trying to contact her, guide her to the elevator.. If he really didn’t care about her, why do all this? Why wouldn’t he just assume she's dead and move on.

You could argue it’s because he was trying to prevent her from freeing the mimic before it was too late, but if that’s the case why would he give her directions when the mimic’s already been set free? Even in the elevator he directly tells her “You shut off the security, and now it’s free.” So if he knew/believed the mimic had already escaped, why kill Cassie ‘so it can’t escape.’ Even if that were also true, that’s not the only escape route. The mimic could still use the elevator Cassie used to get down here in the first place. He’d only be cutting off 1 of 2 exits.

It’s so contradictory, if it were true I sure hope it has a good explanation in the next game. And again, the voice lines.. He sounds so panicked during them, through the mimic chase he’s yelling the directions, repeating himself, he’s clearly not calm during all this shit. He clearly cares about her. And for me, especially the rare voice line shows it. If you go back and listen to it again, the initial “Cassie is that you?” sounds a bit more panicked than the typical mimic calling out to Cassie, but at the end? After the voice glitches, that final “Cassie. Is that you?” It just sounds so full of despair to me. It’s a level of emotion the mimic never really displays for Cassie, it only sounds worried for its own safety, never concerned for hers.

Maybe I’m too invested, after all I get far more attached to characters than the lore itself, but from what we’ve seen of these characters I just feel like it would be really out of character if this was all meant to be taken at face value. If it was Gregory that cut the elevator, if he somehow managed to do it, and barely seemed to regret that choice.

I think even if he did there’s still an argument to be made in his defense, after all we don’t know what the mimic has done to him in the games, we don’t know what it’s capable of, what he’s so afraid of. While sure we know about the mimic from the books, considering the questionable canonicity from books to games being the same timeline, and considering (as far as I’m aware) Gregory isn’t directly shown to have a connection to the mimic in those books.. Whatever he’s done in the games we haven’t seen yet, whatever happened that led Gregory to seal the mimic down there in the first place, it had to be pretty bad to cause all this. For such extreme security to be put around it, for him to leave things in a hurry, desperate to get out of there. Whatever happened clearly left some scars, whether those are physical, emotional, or both.

But that’s all I’ve got. I still find the other theories interesting, and I’m not denying they could be true. Look at the series we’re talking about here. But, with the evidence we’ve got, personally this is my take on it. I can only hope it’s true, but if I’m wrong, oh well I guess lol. I think Gregory’s definitely going to come back one way or another, whether he’s just down there to try to trap the mimic again, or if he’s going back to save Cassie, or both! I hope however he does come back it can clear up a few things. If you read all the way through, thanks, I know I ramble a lot, and I appreciate you taking the time to go through this, whether you agree with me or not.

#fnaf theory #fnaf sb ruin #ruin dlc #fnaf ruin #fnaf security breach ruin #fnaf security breach #fnaf sb #fnaf gregory #tbh i did talk about freddy for a little so #glamrock freddy #glamrock freddy prototype #i think that's all tags i can come up with to add onto this #ik this has probably been argued to death and i'm definitely late to the party #but i feel like i brought at least a few original observations to the conversation #soo #beating a dead horse #my analysis

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phlurrii · 2 years ago

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Yea rewatching these guys they know each other, after Meau has her flashback of dreaming of mewtwo where I assume she's telling them like I'm having dreams and in it I'm seeing a dark room with an orange tube with something inside Noe turns to her and like the expression on their face feels so very "and what are you going to do about it?" as if asking like this is what you're going through what are you going to do about it, and then they fly off together with them twirling around each other and I did notice Noe flies very close to Meau which makes me curious again they know each other they feel familial especially with them moving up to hug hold Meau to comfort her as she I imagine gets a psychic projection of Mewtwo waking up which scared her because oh god, something is out there and it's powerful and it's what the humans have done and it involves my baby so whatever they are they're from my child. So just hm horrors of the genetic tampering and they've made something powerful and they cant control it and that's my grandchild in some way (possible fear of what will happen if Meau has to face off with them because technically her kin but because of the genetic tampering there's that level of two being unrecognisable but she'd be lying if she thought there was no relation that she could deal with them without feeling)

Noe and Meau just hm, I am hm. They /know/ each other lmao I know I keep saying it but words are hard. Part of me is like does the closeness mean something other than friendship and familial but like her and Noe are probably related unless Arceus had maybe intended for them to be two without any relation to help foster the new world he was making kind of like the king and queen of the pride... Hm now I'm thinking did Noe originally exist alongside Meau and was once whole but gave too much of their dna to other Pokemon during the creation of a thriving world, because we saw how shaky and tired Meau was in her depictions before she made her child could be very easy to push oneself too far I mean even Meau had to go nap afterwards, and ended up weakening themselves to a state of instability where they joined with Meau who preserved their remaining dna within themselves to keep them alive, if half alive through her and giving them the power to come alive through shadows but only briefly as their original form unfortunately no longer exists... Sorry got off on a tangent but like! They know each other they are close but we'll find out how!

Also Meau witnessing Mewtwo escape their anger and violence as they burn down the lab, again it's shaking her to the core, she must know she's seeing these projections because they're both strong with their psychic powers but also related bond like how Meau sensed when mew was in danger, could she bring herself to stop them if she had to? Especially when they too have been hurt by humans or will their rage prove to be something she needs to put a stop to even as it tears her apart.

And if they're actually grown cloned from an organ from her child and not just from their ovary eggs ect then wouldn't that make them in a sense a clone and twin to her child? Could she kill the man made sibling? When they are still genetically hers?

I'm falling into the deep end here I'm experiencing and feeling a lot of emotions here Meaus probably going through a lot and Noe making brain go BRR

Enjoy my insane ramblings

I’ve already stated before how much I loved this, but I LOVED this. They’ve basically nailed the entire animatic intentions, give or take a few things ;3c

Thus I think it’ll be a GREAT refresher… Ehe

#anon #insane and mostly correct ramblings #absolutely loved how you put it ;3 #ask

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gibbearish · 10 months ago

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also in case anyone is curious why i didn't address any other specific part either:

the red is the original screenshot. my phone reached the screenshot limit before i could get the whole post in and there was still a screen and a half left. im guessing the additions since have at least doubled it. it is not possible to address every single detail, and sometimes people writing things have to take it on faith the audience will understand the difference between glossing over something because you don't have time to go fully into it and it's not super relevant to your actual point beyond as context, and glossing over something because if you explained it fully it would reveal that you're lying. i did my best to address everything as comprehensively as i could without going off on unrelated tangents and it STILL turned out that long, if i truly addressed every detail here i would basically just be writing a book, and if so i would like some book writing money.

luckily though, this isn't a book, which means if you can't tell Why i skipped over something without giving it the time it deserves, you can just ask! internet discourse encourages a trend of block first ask questions never, and while there certainly are times where that is the best route to take, you can also sometimes just be like. "hey man, what did you mean by this?" could even throw in a "i'm reading it as (x) but that seems uncharitable and wouldnt follow with the rest of the politics you espouse here so i figured i'd double check" if you're feeling spicy. by which i just mean yknow. if you think they might be the kind of person who wants to know when their words come across a way they didn't intend.

also, focus in on that part about "that seems uncharitable and doesn't follow with the rest of your politics" - part of critical thinking if you're unsure what someone means and don't have the ability to ask is coming up with MULTIPLE possible meanings, then holding those up against everything else they've said to see which one fits in with the others. obviously sometimes you will have people who are Mostly Progressive with that One Single Bigotry They Just Can't Shake, but by and large if someone is Mostly saying good stuff and then says one unclear-maybe-bad-maybe-good-depending-on-how-you-read-it thing, there's a good chance it was just poor wording. and on the flip side, if someone has lied to you many times in one short post, that should give you reason to question the intent behind why certain things were omitted and what narrative those omissions create. don't just question what's being said, question why they chose to say it the way they did.

#origibberish

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laurasauras · 2 years ago

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God I love so many of your fics that I had such a time trying to figure out which to ask for the director's cut of ! And so here we are. Dealer's choice:

SBaHJ: Nancho M0vei: The Screenplay or Spurn My Natural Emotions

(Somehow those are links??? Tumblr functionality is wild these days)

SBaHJ: Nancho M0vei: The Screenplay is one of my favourite fics i've written because i had so much fun with the format. for those who haven't read it, it's the introduction to one of alpha dave's screenplays, written by alpha rose and with rambling footnotes from her and alpha dave, plus dirk, who inherited the copy and contributed to it in an effort to leave a mark where his bro had left a mark.

it's formatted like a book as much as possible (though my html skills let me down a little in terms of making uniform page sizes), and the footnote thing was inspired by house of leaves, though obviously the content is VERY different.

i wrote alpha rose and dave as very similar to their pre-scratch selves. rose's style of writing (as seen in her Sburb walkthrough and in Complacency of the Learned) is very different from her style of speaking. She comes off very intelligent when she talks, but she's still approachable and she gets into a natural rhythm with her conversational partner. When she writes, she is free to go on as many tangents as she likes and she flexes her writing muscles through the use of evocative descriptions and unique figurative language.

it is a very fun style to mimic, and i tried to mimic it as much as i could. my favourite simile is this one:

Interviewing Dave Strider was akin to dressing a monkey in a tuxedo; I went in with a clear purpose, and through immense determination and skill I believe I technically accomplished it, but it was not without an abundance of attempts at avoidance, nor was it ever an experience I walked out of without having looked at least a little foolish.

i think it conveys the point well and also establishes in the reader's mind a ridiculous image to accompany the mood that rose is trying to set. it's a way of introducing the concept of absurdity before the excerpts of interviews are featured, setting up the expectation for what kinds of interviews they will be.

i initially intended on writing the whole movie and footnoting it as i did with the introduction. it was going to be my detective pony. but that is such a ludicrously ambitious project and i don't know if i would have accomplished anything with it that i didn't with just the introduction.

that intention was also inspired by house of leaves. i wanted to create something where the footnotes took up all available space and where they started requiring genuine effort to keep track of. i wanted to show dirk getting carried away and having his recountings of his own life and feelings take over the script, much in the same way johnny's do in HoL and similar to how dirk's story begins eclipsing detective pony's original one until the only thing remaining of betancourt's work is the chapter titles.

and no, i won't be doing this, tempting as it remains.

the best part of this fic is not the format though; it's the content. it shows the relationship between the alpha guardians and the love they felt for each other, as well as the love they felt for their charges. it shows how much fun dave and rose had with their work and with each other and it shows how much dirk longs for connection to them.

so yeah, thanks for choosing one of my fave fics for this!

#my fic #analysis #director commentary #long post

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big-city-times · 2 years ago

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due to popular demand (two people in the replies of this post) i will now complain about how agitating the penny the pony and the pirate is to me (coming out as a hater) [under the cut][not going to put a whole essay in the main tag without a cut]

prepare yourself [i am so sorry]

before diving deep into my "he would not fucking say that" syndrome, there are ?? a lot of things i like about this episode ??

positives

the biggest, and the one that makes me the most sad, is how much i love the b plot. partially because it feels ironic watching becky and violet try to rewatch the mid-summer special of pretty princess and trying to convince themselves that its not as bad as they had thought originally, as i desperately try to convince myself that this episode isn't as bad as i had thought, but also because its just so ??? funny ??

like. fucking watch this

that's ?? hilarious ??? and it's used in this episode ???

not to mention that violet is just so adorable and funny in this episode and i love myself some good violet characterization AND theres really goofy botsford moments !! like them bullying tangent for not being able to tell a good story. father daughter bonding /j

also, about tim specifically, i find myself saying "can you believe this guy!! hey buddy !! the doubloons exhibit was last week !!!" a lot strangely enough

there's also some really silly bits about tangent himself !! like i've really stuck with the idea of him LOVING hearing other people's stories, stealing only when he's low on cash, or having a mom who's an artist

like !!! those are super cute and fun !!!!!!!! hearing about villains daily live's is one of my favorite parts of this show !! they're just presented in a way that doesn't sit right in my head !!

nice and goofy animations as well :]

negatives

yk. this is a rant. it's not really intended to be about the positive stuff so

cutting straight to the chase, i know exactly what the main reason is. it's the voice actor change im not gonna lie

for a minute, imagine, a character with a higher-pitched voice that you like, say, spongebob

then imagine them with a voice that is an octave deeper than their usual voice

isn't that weird and disorienting ??? like it just doesn't feel like them anymore ??

as violet says in this episode itself, that's. not their real voice, not to you at least

in this case, not only is his voice deeper, but its brash and gruff rather than his usual young, kind sounding voice, with a obvious (and often broken) fake accent. he sounds more like an adult and it BOTHERS me

its giving the minor change in chuck's voice in a world without wordgirl. while still the same person, a minor shift in his speech patterns makes him far less likeable

obviously this is no hate to brian stack (his va for this episode), he did a very good job on the actual acting, the voice just doesn't feel right for the character :]

there's also something that feels off about the way a lot of his lines are presented, not in voice, but more in the style of writing

in the previous two episodes, despite being absent minded and annoying to those around him, he's very selfless and kind, (caring about the safety of scoops and the dogs, leaving people alone if they reject him, noticing that scoops is upset [though he does interpret it wrong], ext.) but, here, it feels more like he's less distracted by his thoughts, and more self-focused. for example, regardless that he did enjoy tim's history lesson on the bumblebee penny, he immediately turns and begins to tell his own story, which just feels ??? way out of character ??

less negative, but he feels wayyy less focused here, and begins and ends stories very often, feeling less like they're tangents, and more like really brief, mildly annoying tidbits about himself ?? lmfao

it feels almost like they tried too hard on the tangents and ended up staying way too close to the topic. we are no longer going from pirates favorite wood to ballet slippers and that makes me very sad :[

i guess theres just something very offputting about how pirate-y he feels. he doesn't feel like some dork in a costume, and that's what i feel his character is supposed to be like !! he's not really a pirate !! he doesn't have a ship !! he rides around in a wagon !!! a flying wagon !!

conclusion :

as i said earlier, i keep coming back to this episode hoping that i'll like it better, but i never do.

who are you !!!!!! idk what villain that is !!! this episode has so much potential !! the crime is so goofy !! he's just written in a very strange way !!!

bonus bit - why is it so funny to me that his arm literally makes a clanking noise when he touches it. look at this stupid little twig arm. there is no way youve ever been to the gym youre lying

#sorry this ep just really bugs me cause its one of the three episodes he gets in the whole series and i am just never able to enjoy it :[#wordgirl #i will get back to normal posting soon #captain tangent #the penny the pony and the pirate

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kinetic-elaboration · 2 years ago

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May 30: Current Writing Projects

I tried to work on the Southern Gothic AU today and... I did some. Not as much as I was hoping when I was gearing myself up listening to spooky music at work and imagining productivity on the bus, but some. I just got really distracted by the internet. And let's just say also by having worked a full day.

Anyway, here are my current projects and my Emotions about them:

SGAU - I'm excited to be excited about it and I think (I think) that I'm approaching it the right way to get a comprehensive view of the whole universe. I feel like I need that first so that I don't go off on tangents whenever I try to figure out any one practical thing, and also so that I actually... write what I intended to write? I literally drafted a whole-ass chapter and I'm going to have to cut huge chunks of it because it didn't say what I wanted it to say and I hate that. So that's a big part of wanting to organize first this time. Also, I need to relearn it after all this time, as well as build up additional excitement. I also feel like I've forgotten a lot of the Aesthetic, so I need to re-learn that. But I'm currently optimistic because I am enjoying the work and not scared of it, like I've been for so long.

Blake Siblings Summer AU - Literally the exact opposite story! It's coming along in the planning. I need to finalize the outline, especially for the first scene and then I can start writing... It's felt so close and yet so far away for a while but I'm okay with that. This is my main one-shot right now, which I'm sure will be nice when I get bogged down in the size of longer fics like SGAU.

The Poly Fic - I'm getting so into planning this. That may or may not transition into actually writing it... but I am doing the sort of work that is necessary to actually writing it, like focusing on the first part and developing the first chapter. So, maybe? It's sort of an exciting prospect.

#the year 2023 #2023: writing projects #look at me trying to have fun

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lovecolibri · 2 years ago

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SaL anon here friend, wishing you a Happy New Year 🎉🎆🍾!! Hope things are going well so far and you're not too drenched in ice or snow or cold (my brother is in NM and he's freezing his ass off apparently). For reasons that definitely include the upcoming season's proximity, I'm going to try to get more into 911 LS this year. I've decided that while we've got excellent taste in ships, we've done poorly in focusing on shows where those ships can thrive, meaning they have a showrunner who can

tell a compelling story, writers who can bring that story to life, and a promo team that can get the audience excited. Let's take just promo for example. LS just came out with its 2nd or 3rd trailer and it's still 3 week's away!! Even if they are also doing smaller emergencies, the frog storm looked a hell of a lot of more exciting than the blimp "emergency". And from what I've seen of the stills, it will feature a lot of Tarlos, and I haven't seen much in the way of guest stars. Contrast that with RNM. We all remember the seasonal promo posters that looked like an elementary school project and the 5 sec episode previews they abandoned during S4 (this isn't even considering the episode synopsis where if a particular character was mentioned my excitement level flatlined). Then there's the Malex if it all, remember we got so excited when a still of them was promoted on Twitter for 4x02 since it had literally never been done before?? Sad days. And as for OG lately we've gotten confusing/inaccurate episode synopsis, previews of scenes that were made to look intense and turned out to be "meh", stills released right before the episode and then 50 scenes released the day it premieres. Its a mess. And I guess I can't complain that those things didn't feature Buddie since there wasn't anything in the season for them to feature. I don't think we have to rehash the baffling and horrible writing choices of both RNM and OG's showrunners those are well documented. So that leaves the individual writing of each show, where RNM abandoned logic and 911 abandoned emotion in order to force scenes that did no one any favors. Anyway this got longer than intended and ultimately saltier, I was trying to say Happy New Year and it turned into this. So again happy New year!! Maybe with time and GA input KR will come up with a plotline that doesn't make me hear nails on a chalkboard when it's mentioned.

Hi my friend and Happy New Year to you as well, even though this is now a few days late. (I wanted to finish the book I started yesterday, a sequel to a romcom I very much enjoyed and one of the only actual books I’ve managed to read recently, but it ended up being kind of awful and torpedoed my whole day and sucked the serotonin right out of me instead of giving me MORE like it was supposed to 😒😒😒 hate this for me. So I put this off a little longer so I didn’t end up being TOO salty or going off on a fully unrelated tangent). Luckily I’m back home where it’s chilly (for me) but nothing too wet or miserable and I got to enjoy some sweatpants for a few days before I have to go back to my cold office and uncomfortable work clothes.

You’re so right, we DO have excellent taste in ships but whooo boy WHAT is the deal with being shafted by shows? (And now books too apparently because my life is a joke, hell bent on not allowing me to thrive with the things I find joy in.) I have been soooo jealous of not just the promo coming out so early, but also official stills coming from set during filming! OG couldn’t even get stills for for some episodes until a few hours before airing! To say nothing of the incorrect synopsis/previews, and 700 clips released on episode day messes. Plus LS got new cast photos this year while OG has still been using stuff from s1-2! I’m not gonna lie, I haven’t been paying much if any attention to news about LS so all I know is the Tarlos stuff sounds really exciting and the only guest stars I remember is for some FBI/DEA something or other operation that (of course) Owen is for some reason involved in helping with. Color me unsurprised. But knowing that’s how LS has been pretty much from the jump, it’s easier to just grit my teeth through the Owen centricity and sometimes it’s at least entertaining 🤷🏻‍♀️ The frog thing sounds interesting but definitely feels like a “hook” that’s going to end up being almost nothing and quickly resolved but if we’re lucky we’ll at least get some jokes out of it about TK taking one home and Carlos getting a panicked look about it. Also, the LS emergencies have never had quite the resonance or the tie in with the main plots that OG had so them cutting back after the ice storm (which really was excessive at 4 episodes and by cutting down on the weird Owen centricity could have been done in 2 *maybe* 2.5 or 3 episodes tops, revolving around the group as a whole more) isn’t probably going to change the format of regular episodes much from previous seasons. But with the wedding coming up, the possibility of Carlos getting injured, and Ronan being a tease and really excited for multiple episodes, I feel like the Tarlos stuff is going to be really good!

I’m cackling because taking shots at the RNM promo department will never NOT be funny. I mean, honestly WTF was their deal with promo posters?! *insert “is this a promo poster for ANTS” gif here* At least they were somewhat more honest by always seaming to make Alex the smallest and furthest away and never near Michael which is....mostly what we got after s1 so 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️. Not that OG 911 is much better since there’s a fan that does massively impressive posters for episodes that completely outshine anything the official team does.

ANYWAY, I’m with you down in the salt mine and surrounded by wasted potential so lets hope this year we can finally get some more fulfilling stories/storylines, and that our beloved OG wee-woos can get back on track. The only good thing about them having a longer hiatus is they have the chance to take the reaction to the finale, especially Buck’s mess of a storyline, and 6a as a whole into consideration and maybe make some changes. Honestly if they completely dropped Buck’s storyline and it never came up ever again I wouldn’t even care and would actually prefer that at this point. Remember when he got meaty storylines that involved the other main characters and was the focus for a few episodes and then arcs finished and new ones started and we got several things going on for multiple characters at once? *cracked voice* yeah.... Well, here’s to hoping! 🍾🥂 *clink*

#my sweet nonnie friends #sleeping at last anon #911 #911 lone star #roswell nm #roswell nm my behated #*through gritted teeth*#it's going to be a good year

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w3tn3t · 11 months ago

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I would like to start by saying that this is a very well worded, well rounded post, and I'm going to attempt to add to it rather than criticize it.

I agree that fanon MK1 Kuai Liang exhibits traits he doesn't really show in the game itself. You refer to these as being more Tomas than Kuai, but I feel where they're really coming from is Kuai Liang's characterization from previous games and media.

His being kind and courteous is most famously shown in MKX's story mode where he goes out of his way to facilitate as inoffensive an familiar an environment he can before delivering quite heavy news to Hanzo, and remains as polite as possible in the face of Hanzo's defensive hostility while showing great forgiveness. This is far from the first time he's portrayed as peaceful and kind. (This is a weird one, but in the Defenders of the Realm cartoon, he says he spent a lot of time trying to find inner peace before returning to kombat after going on the run. In a later episode, he wins a bet with Stryker and uses it to teach him some of his skills, as a friend.)

Going on a bit of a tangent here, but MK has started out as, and has been for a long time, a franchise aimed at teenage boys. While it's managed to avoid the worst of it, at the end of the day, the male characters have only so much emotion they can exhibit outside of the "cool" rage. The target audience doesn't want to see Scorpion cry unless it's man tears slipping out over gnashed teeth and a scowl, à la Scorpion's Revenge.

What gives Kuai Liang his emotional reputation in the fandom is that of the times this "rule" has been broken, a few moments of significance have been his. Like his face scrunching up in sadness and pain in his MK11 story chapter in the factory, or him openly crying in Battle of the Realms.

MK11 intros are a whole other thing for him, between the cuteness factor of letting Johnny Cage call him an amusing nickname and the way he defends Hanzo. He also has his flaws in MK11, like immediately fighting the younger Scorpion, but that only cements how thrown off he was by his friend's death.

All of this combined, he's the usually serene, wise yet not-without-feeling voice of reason...

And MK1's Kuai Liang looks like him. Not in the way they share a name, or have similar face models, but in the way they are presented. He doesn't speak often. Next to Bi-Han, he can easily be described as peaceful. ("Patience, Bi-Han. There are many demands on Liu Kang's attention.") His remarks about tradition, on their own, could be considered wise. Others look to him as a teacher. But now, this behaviour lacks the same context.

You said that being Scorpion means his flaws are overlooked, and while you are right about that, I feel like a lot of his problems are because he is Scorpion. Above, I mentioned that male characters' emotions are limited. This is never as blatant as it is with Scorpion. Because, up until this point, all Hanzo Hasashi has been allowed to exhibit is a mixture anger, rage, fury, and did I mention anger? They took a chance this time around by casting their arguably calmest character in this role. So what can they do about it? Utilize Hanzo's secret, second emotion: pride of his clan. Except, Kuai Liang is meant to abandon this clan during the story. So, he latches onto his ideals. And when clips of the story mode inevitably get posted on Youtube, it will look great to see Scorpion berate Sub-Zero on honor and tradition. No matter it being the third time during what meagre story mode they are both given.

I think the fandom has taken MK1 Kuai Liang as how NRS thought they have written him. But this dissonance between what you can gather from the material itself and what was intended and most widely received just makes him seem even more conniving.

All in all, his state in MK1 is just.. sad, becuase it has so much potential. Kuai Liang's story up until this point has been him losing and trying to regain his autonomy, and then owning up to the the things he did under control and duress. In contrast to Hanzo, who has always been in control of himself but not of his rage. But it has also been about his loyalty and love for his brother, going so far as to rewrite time in his MK11 ending to have him by his side.

He finally has the room to freely fight for Bi-Han's soul, and instead he gives up on it before the corruption has even spread.

(It's currently 4 am so sorry for any typos or things that don't make sense lol, just wanted to share my thoughts)

This is probably the most unpopular of all unpopular opinions out there, but hear me out for just a second:

Can we please start to acknowledge Kuai Liang's flaws? It's perfectly fine to like a character while also acknowledging their negative traits and the bad things they've done. I'm genuinely confused by the whole "aww Kuai Liang is so nice :)" thing the fandom has going on. I understand that, being a Bi-Han fan, I might sound biased, but I promise this is coming from a completely neutral standpoint.

I don't see how any of the positive traits fans associate with Kuai Liang (kindness, selflessness, a caring nature) are backed up by any canon material we know of. Those traits belong to Tomas, not Kuai Liang. The version of Kuai Liang that is a loving brother to Tomas and the prime example of a good man only exists in fanon.

Vengeful, short-tempered, regressive — those are Kuai Liang's actual traits.

May I remind you, the real Kuai Liang looks like this.

His face expresses arrogance, he's looking down on whoever is in front of him. He doesn't smile, doesn't display any expression that one could interpret for kindness. He looks cold. Does that arrogance and coldness look familiar at all?

It's the same expression as this one. Bi-Han is also shown looking down on others, with the exact same confidence stemming from the idea that he is superior to others. Kuai Liang mirrors that expression perfectly. They're brothers, they're similar in the way they act and think, in the way they were raised. Let's not forget that Kuai Liang was second in line for the grandmaster title while with the Lin Kuei. He is grandmaster of the Shirai Ryu now. They are both arrogant.

Tomas is the only one of the three who smiles and has a warm, kind aura to him. I'm not saying he's a perfect ray of sunshine, he's certainly capable of being ruthless just like his brothers, but he doesn't share their overwhelmingly negative traits.

There is no warmth to Kuai Liang at all, which is ironic given that his element is fire. Kuai Liang's fire, however, burns cold to match Bi-Han's ice. They are not opposites, they are the same.

Hanzo as Scorpion was driven by grief and ultimately love for his family, Kuai Liang's fire is only fueled by hatred for his brother.

While Bi-Han is obsessed with power, Kuai Liang's obsession with honor and tradition is crossing the line to fanaticism. Am I the only one to find it concerning how he worships his father and his father's ideals almost religiously? It's pretty much all he ever talks about at any given chance.

to Bi-Han: "His teachings did not pass with him. They should still guide us." to Bi-Han: "Father would turn in his grave if he saw this." to Smoke: "We must chart a new course. One that both honors our Father's legacy and serves Earthrealm." to Kitana: "Death before dishonor." to Smoke: "Only if we honor tradition."

Is this how a normal person talks? I don't think so. Admittedly, Bi-Han's methods are wrong, but since when is it a good thing to be completely against progress? Kuai Liang is stuck holding onto outdated traditions that don't allow for growth. It's not necessarily a bad thing that he looks up to his father, but idolizing someone to the point of never questioning anything they do or say and giving up any critical thinking is dangerous.

There's plenty more examples in the story mode and intros where Kuai Liang brings up honor and tradition, but this post is going to be long enough as it is so I only named a few.

I want to focus more on how Kuai Liang treats other characters throughout the story.

Tomas:

Why does the fandom claim he's such a good brother to Tomas when this is the only scene in the story mode where Kuai Liang expresses any sort of care towards Tomas — in a moment where he needs Tomas on his side?

Oddly enough, he's playing at Tomas' vulnerability here by bringing up family and reassuring him that they're brothers even if they don't share blood, in direct contrast to how Bi-Han said Tomas' blood was not Lin Kuei earlier. Words he chose carefully and deliberately, not out of the goodness of his heart because he wanted to comfort Tomas, but to achieve the desired effect: to sway Tomas to his side.

Similar to Bi-Han, Kuai Liang is a manipulative and calculating character. I would even dare to go as far as to say he's even more manipulative since Bi-Han lacks the charisma and patience to be a successful manipulator. Bi-Han makes no effort to convince Tomas to join him. He can't even keep up the lie he told Kuai Liang for very long. Bi-Han's actions are impulsive and poorly planned out, he's the naive one being manipulated by characters like Shang Tsung while Kuai Liang makes smart, calculated moves. He knew exactly what he was doing when speaking to Tomas.

I don't see how that was even necessary since Tomas would have picked Kuai Liang's side regardless simply because it's the one aligning with his own beliefs, but Kuai Liang's words were a subtle "Hey, remember that I'm the one who considers you part of this family and he does not. If you don't side with me, you're going to betray your own brother."

One of the key signs to recognize a manipulator by is how they try and convince a person close to them that it's "the two of them against everyone else" or in this case "them against their older brother". Manipulators know someone's weaknesses (Tomas' desire to be a part of their family) and how to exploit them to get what they want.

There was never even the slightest chance that Tomas would have sided with Bi-Han in that fight anyway, but he also appears way more passive in it as opposed to Kuai Liang. Tomas doesn't want to fight his own brother, but at the end of the day he cares more about doing the right thing and saving innocent lives than about his inner conflict. For Kuai Liang, it's a quest for vengeance and the pursue of his own goals above all else.

I also think it's interesting that Tomas looks slightly surprised/ confused at the hand being placed on his arm by Kuai Liang. It's almost like he's not used to being reassured like this which makes you wonder how often Kuai Liang really comforted Tomas or showed any support towards him. Like Liu Kang and everyone else, Kuai Liang barely acknowledged Smoke's presence before. They're only seen exchanging occasional glances.

What has me doubt the sincerety of Kuai Liang's words even more is this scene.

Personally, I don't believe that Bi-Han has ever snapped at Tomas like that before this incident here, but I know the fandom likes to think otherwise so just for this take let's go with the wrong assumption that Bi-Han used to put Tomas down like that regularly.

Why did Kuai Liang not step in to defend Tomas in this scene? If he knew where this was going why did he let Bi-Han finish his sentence? It's certainly not out of respect or because Bi-Han is their grandmaster. Kuai Liang has no issue talking back to him and contradicting him in other situations but he was surprisingly silent when this whole thing went down.

He was either just as surprised as Tomas that Bi-Han would snap at their brother like that because it hasn't happened before or because he simply didn't care to interrupt since he had nothing to gain from it, unlike later when he wanted Tomas' loyalty for himself.

Kuai Liang could have been standing up for Tomas in this situation if he was the good brother everyone sees him as, but for some reason he didn't. Make of that what you will.

As for the intros between them, there's only one where Kuai Liang asks about Tomas' family. In every other intro with Tomas he only speaks of his own goals. Honor, tradition, training the Shirai Ryu, defeating the Lin Kuei... At one point he praises Tomas for his loyalty towards him, only to question said loyalty later on.

Scorpion: Our resolve cannot waver, brother. Smoke: I'm offended that you think mine has.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a prime example of manipulation right here. Guilt tripping/shaming someone into doing something they don't even want to do.

Kuai Liang seems to always be working an angle with Tomas. Why is he suddenly doubting him? Because he knows Tomas wants peace, not war between the brothers?

Ultimately, it seems he doesn't care about what Tomas wants. We know that Tomas is torn in this conflict, he resents Bi-Han, but he also doesn't want his brothers to fight. Otherwise, he wouldn't have asked for Liu Kang to reunite them.

Tomas' intros are a whole paradox of their own.

Smoke: Are we to be enemies for life? Sub-Zero: Unless you submit, Tomas.

Smoke: I'll never forgive Bi-Han. Scorpion: His betrayal has seared both our hearts.

Scorpion: We'll soon meet the Lin Kuei in battle. Smoke: It will be our last with them. Smoke: For Earthrealm's sake, my brothers must reunite. Raiden: There's little hope for that, Tomas.

Smoke: Can I get the brothers to reconcile? Liu Kang: They must choose their own path, Tomas.

What Tomas says to other characters contradicts everything he says to Kuai Liang. But why? Why does he never tell Kuai Liang directly that he'd just wish him and Bi-Han would stop fighting? Why if not because he's afraid of Kuai Liang's reaction and that he will lose him as a brother unless he agrees with everything Kuai Liang says?

SPOILERS: It's interesting how Kuai Liang in this scene asks Tomas to help him bring Bi-Han back with them so he won't be able to aid Shang Tsung, but according to leaks he's going to leave Bi-Han behind with Havik in the dlc, not even caring about the consequences that might have for Bi-Han or for Earthrealm. Now that Tomas isn't there he no longer has to keep up the facade. Tomas' absence also makes me wonder if he maybe got tired of Kuai Liang's spitefulness and blind hatred.

To sum it up, here's what we know about how Kuai Liang treats Tomas:

Kuai Liang initialy doesn't defend Tomas against Bi-Han's harsh words

He picks an odd timing to comfort Tomas at the Ying Fortress, possibly to assure that Tomas will join his side, not Bi-Han's

He's trying to push his own agenda onto Tomas who agrees with him in their intros but doesn't seem to share Kuai Liang's goals when speaking to other characters like Liu Kang or Raiden

SPOILERS: It seems that Tomas won't be attending Kuai Liang's wedding as he's not mentioned at all in any of the dlc leaks. He might be trying to stay out of the fight between his brothers entirely.

Bi-Han:

Another detail I've noticed is how quickly Kuai Liang comes up with the idea to create the Shirai Ryu. How likely is it that he made the decision to form an entire new clan on the spot? He seems way too prepared for this scenario.

Smoke: Once he's exposed, won't you be grandmaster? Scorpion: You forget Cyrax and Sektor. Their loyalty to Bi-Han is absolute. They'll sooner abet his corruption than follow me. We must chart a new course.

Why did Tomas not know about this when they're part of the same clan but Kuai Liang knows the answer immediately? It's almost like he has thought it through before, tried to figure out exactly who would side with him and who wouldn't if it came down to important Lin Kuei members choosing between him and Bi-Han. And that's because he has. It even says so in his official bio.

Kuai Liang always intended to overthrow Bi-Han.

He admitted that he was aware of Bi-Han's frustrations all along and yet he never brought up his concerns to Liu Kang or anyone else. It seems that he intended to take advantage of how mentally unstable his brother was in order to become grandmaster himself. I'm not saying he always wanted the title to himself, Kuai Liang doesn't care about power, but his obsession with tradition equals Bi-Han's obsession with power. He wanted to rule the Lin Kuei himself to enforce his own ideals and when he realized that wouldn't work out, he settled for the next best thing: creating his own clan.

Kitana in comparison also knows that Mileena is impulsive and many people doubt that she's fit to lead but she supports her sister regardless. Her loyalty to Mileena is unwavering. Kitana loves and supports her sister unconditionally. It doesn't even once cross her mind to take Mileena's place on the throne.

Kuai Liang and Kitana share similar values, yet Kitana's loyalty to her sister outweighs all that while Kuai Liang didn't hesitate to plot against Bi-Han way before Bi-Han even sided with Shang Tsung. Just Bi-Han's frustration alone was reason enough for Kuai Liang to want to overthrow his brother.

Ashrah, a complete stranger, cares more about redeeming Bi-Han than his own brother does. And no, Kuai Liang's actions can't be justified by bringing up that Bi-Han let their father die or betrayed Earthrealm etc. because Kuai Liang gave up on him long before any of that happened. In fact, the way Kuai Liang constantly brings up their father at every chance he gets probably added to Bi-Han's frustrations and is part of the reason why he was driven to madness.

Scorpion: Glory? We fight for duty. Sub-Zero: Does our father's ghost possess you? All I hear is his voice.

Bi-Han seems haunted by their father's ghost and Kuai Liang knows, yet he doesn't shy away from bringing it up at every opportunity. Was it done on purpose? Who knows.

But it's noteworthy that it's again manipulative behavior. The way Kuai Liang constantly criticizes Bi-Han, undermines his authority, compares him to their father whenever he can although he knows about Bi-Han's frustrations, then claims a shadow has fallen on Bi-Han's soul when he at the very least partially helped cast that shadow.

I'm not sure why people claim Kuai Liang was supportive of Bi-Han before his betrayal because there's no evidence of that at all. At least, none that I could find. Kuai Liang seems reluctant to follow Bi-Han's orders and he also doesn't seem to respect him much. Again, compare that to how Kitana shows actual concern for Mileena while Kuai Liang just seems fed up with Bi-Han.

Personally, I believe Kuai Liang's goals are far bigger than we know at this point. Something about the line "The Shirai Ryu won't rest until Bi-Han is defeated and the Lin Kuei's honor is restored" suggests that, while he built his own clan, Kuai Liang still has some interest in the Lin Kuei. I doubt that he's just planning to take down Bi-Han to let someone else be grandmaster in his place. I think that Kuai Liang wants to merge both clans once Bi-Han is defeated. After all, Kuai Liang's bio mentions that he's willing to fight his brother for control of the Lin Kuei's legacy. He might think it would be in his father's interest if he became grandmaster of both clans. However, that's just an educated guess and might not be true at all.

How Kuai Liang treats Bi-Han:

Kuai Liang never trusted Bi-Han's leadership skills or acknowledged his authority

The conflict of interest between the brothers always existed, even before Bi-Han switched sides and Kuai Liang always planned to take the grandmaster title from Bi-Han

Kuai Liang attempted to (and would have) killed Bi-Han but was interrupted in doing so

He's eager to fight Bi-Han, while Tomas is reluctant

He seems to have always held very little love for Bi-Han, if any at all, although he claims they used to be close once

Harumi:

Does no one else think it's a little bit suspicious that the woman Kuai Liang ends up "falling in love with" is a capable fighter and head of her own clan, someone with exactly the resources, knowledge and means to provide Kuai Liang with everything he needs to build his own clan? He even names the Shirai Ryu after Harumi, a clan whose goal it is to take down Kuai Liang's hated brother, someone Harumi probably knows little about or never even met. Maybe I'm the only one to think that's kind of messed up and not a romantic gesture, but at least he's giving her some credit, right? Does Harumi lead the Shirai Ryu with Kuai Liang or did he take her own clan from her to build his own? I couldn't really find any information regarding that but it would be even more messed up if the Shirai Ryu are originally Harumi's clan that Kuai Liang simply took over.

Another weird detail is how Smoke calls Harumi Kuai Liang's "good friend" in his own ending, which makes you wonder if he left the Shirai Ryu before Kuai Liang and Harumi became a couple? Does he know Kuai Liang doesn't actually love Harumi? It's confusing because Tomas is the person closest to Kuai Liang. Shouldn't he be the first to know if his brother fell in love and is planning to get married?

Kuai Liang's reaction when Kitana congratulates him on his marriage is rather cold as well. He doesn't seem like a happy, newly married man and it makes me think their marriage wasn't necessarily out of love, at least not on Kuai Liang's side.

How Kuai Liang treats Harumi:

There's not enough known about their relationship yet to really know if Kuai Liang's love for Harumi is genuine

He benefitted a lot from his friendship with her when creating the Shirai Ryu

It's strange that Tomas only calls Harumi Kuai Liang's "good friend"

Final conclusion:

Kuai Liang seems to follow a pattern of binding people to him emotionally (Tomas, Harumi... ) to be able to use them to his own advantage. I'm not saying that he doesn't care about them at all, but first and foremost, they're assets to him and family second.

For someone who claims to care about honor, Kuai Liang sure has very little of it. SPOILERS: The fact that Kuai Liang is willing to let Bi-Han die and deny him treatment when he gets infected with chaos magic says a lot about the type of person he is. How is it honorable to kick a man when he's down? How is it honorable that he wants to kill Frost during his own wedding and Harumi has to beg him to spare her life?

To get this straight, this is not an attempt to paint Kuai Liang as the epitome of all evil or to say he doesn't care at all about the people in his life, just that he's much more cold and calculating than people give him credit for. Just because Kuai Liang has chosen the good side while Bi-Han went down the wrong path doesn't necessarily make him a nice person. He's still vindictive and selfish. He still shows toxic behavior.

I know someone will try and twist this post into something it isn't, so let me say this is NOT a personal attack on Kuai Liang fans or an attempt to spread negativity, it's just my opinion that you're free to disagree with. I blame the writers and their obvious bias for Scorpion that Kuai Liang's bad traits are so often overlooked. This post is only me sharing my thoughts. If it offends you, block me. I don't want to see this reblogged with paragraphs from people trying to defend Kuai Liang.

#mortal kombat #kuai liang #aka wasted potential city

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breithenua · 1 year ago

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I like to think I'm not an anime elitist but then I get to the point when rewatching Naruto where it's just a straight 3 seasons of filler and I skip all 3 seasons at once. I watched those 3 seasons of filler a decade ago, I don't remember any of it, and I don't intend to refresh my memory. But then, I guess what makes an elitist is being an asshole to other anime fans, not so much having preferences.

Mind you, I'm aware some people think Boruto is "all filler". And sure, you could argue a lot of it is anime-canon only. But when it comes to early anime canon in Boruto, it supplements the manga canon with a lot of world-building and early characterization of the new generation. And I'll admit I haven't read the Boruto manga at all yet, or finished the anime yet, so I'm missing some information here. But I guess you could argue the same thing with Naruto filler though. But what bothers me about Naruto filler is it is awkwardly interjected into the canon.

There's an entire arc between Tsunade healing the damage to Sasuke's mind from the Tsukuyomi, and when he and Naruto fight on the hospital rooftop. And they try to end the first and start the second with Sasuke in a hospital bed to keep with the manga canon, but it feels awkward. Then it's 3 whole seasons of filler after Naruto and Sasuke's first fight at The Valley Of The End, which starts with Naruto in the hospital following the fight, and ends with Naruto in the hospital after the last filler arc just so it will follow the manga timeline of Naruto going on his journey with Jiraiya after having left the hospital. This is to the filler's detriment. It's awkward and not unnoticeable to those that know the difference.

I'm not against filler. But I think it needs to be supplementary in a way that doesn't interfere with the manga canon in such an awkward way. Like instead of 3 seasons of filler between Naruto waking up in the hospital after fighting Sasuke and when he leaves with Jiraiya, how about showing the lives of the other ninja after he leaves? Training, future Chunin exams, village politics, etc. Just because the series is called Naruto doesn't mean he has to be the focus all the time. 3 seasons without him would be excessive, sure. So have some episodes regarding his training with Jiraiya, or at least his travels with Jiraiya. Some thoughts about his friends while he's gone. Some of the fans would absolutely love that. I know I would.

Or hell, go into more detail with the history of the ninja world. Show more of the time of Hashirama and Madara. Or of Kakashi's early years as a ninja (being careful to keep out certain big spoilers on people's identities). A lot of that history was interjected awkwardly into the 4th Great Ninja War arc anyway. While good parts of the story, their placement in the anime could've been better. Could have really expanded on the history of the other 4 of the Great Five nations too.

The world of Naruto is *massive*. There's a lot of room for world-building that doesn't involve awkwardly shoehorning in the main character when he's supposed to be off doing his own thing. It's not like those aren't popular with the more dedicated fandom, I mean how many shinden novels have there been? (Mind you none of which I've read but that's only cause Idk where to find them online to read for free. My ass is BROKE.)

But then again, all these thoughts about *Naruto* filler are conceived of in hindsight, and people did their best with the options they had at the time. They can't exactly go back and change how it was done without doing a series revamp entirely, and it's far too early for that. But maybe when that does happen, provided the earth hasn't been ravaged by climate change to the point of societal collapse by then, they can handle things a little better.

Anyway I strayed way off my first tangent of comparing Naruto filler to Boruto filler. Hell I was originally writing this just to complain about Naruto having an entire 3 seasons of filler in a row, not go into a deeper discussion of how filler should be handled and a comparison between how 2 different but related series handle it. That's ADD brain for you, lol.

Anyway enjoy what you like, and you're free to disagree or poke holes in my logic, it's just a random stream of thoughts about Naruto, Boruto and filler lol. I've got physics homework due on Wednesday I have been putting off, so it's time to stop writing this and go do said homework lol.

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youkaigakkou-tl · 2 years ago

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The Kyoto Arc Analysis Post (Part 4)

I've run out of color spreads from this arc to put with the title of posts! Can't believe this took more than 3 posts!

This part covers the loose ends left in this arc, and a conclusion.

Part 1 / Part 2 / Part 3 / Part 4

This page singlehandedly ruined my life

I am in shambles! I am inconsolable! What, your heart is still intact? Here, try these.

(chapter 6 and 8)

(chapter 93)

Thank you Tanamai sensei for the knife to the heart. I will cherish this dearly.

Loose Ends

That brings us to nearly the end of this essay, just one section left.

But before that, one loose end/detail we actually get to see: Why Genbu said “gods shouldn’t go near human remains”

…Yeah! (And also there’s what Sano did to Haruaki’s soul)

Well, first loose end: Seimei’s death scene.

Some extra info: The swords appear to be shinto ritual daggers, though I imagine they’re not intended to be used for murder lmao

Notably, why is there a sword stabbed into the ground? Also notably, Seimei is smiling. We also don’t know why the gods were yelling and running to Seimei. We don’t actually get to see the lead up to this scene, not from any perspective.

Chapter 90 is just one giant loose end. Of note is that at this point Douman already has “seimei’s curse” whatever that is. Remember, this was also information we learned from Ranmaru. In fact, I think this is what Ranmaru realizes in this scene.

Another loose end: What is Seimei???? Suzaku says Douman is “only human, don’t push yourself”, then what is Seimei???

And then there’s this sus scene. What’s with the stars, Seimei’s whole brand?? Before actually reading the chapter, I thought it’s because Seimei possessed him, but that doesn’t seem likely with the dialogue (unless???)

Also, what else did he do to Seimei that let him steal his powers for a bit? I don’t imagine just killing someone lets you do that. (Granted it’s highly likely Douman didn’t even kill Seimei, or if he did there was more to the story than jealousy or whatever)

Also, this curse is pretty weird. It for sure has to do with Seimei, considering we’re getting this info from Ranmaru, and also the stars that show up. But isn’t it odd, that Seimei would “curse” him? He just doesn’t seem like that type of guy. My theory, hypothesis even, is that this is Seimei possessing him or something of the sort. (probably not lmaooo but can you imagine. also if this does turn out to be the case I want to be able to say I called it)

And also, some supporting evidence that Douman didn’t kill Seimei:

He says this, almost as if he didn’t have a say in Seimei dying.

And then there’s the gods considering him “sinless”.

And now, finally, we don’t know Seimei’s motive for saying this, nor Ranmaru’s own secret motives.

(Wild guess, Ranmaru probably wants to take down the gods. Takamagahara arc when)

Last Tangent

In the process of writing this, I remembered blue exorcist (another manga I’m insane about) also had a “Kyoto arc” and was kind of wondering why it had a totally different vibe from this. I mean, obviously different stuff can happen in Kyoto, but the vibe of the location was totally different. So I spent a week rereading blue exorcist. As it turns out, its because they spend about 2 seconds in Kyoto city and then fuck off into a temple in the mountains for the rest of the arc.

(By the way, blue exorcist is a really good manga, if you like yohaji you’ll probably enjoy that too.)

(Sometimes I catch myself thinking “maaaaan I wish Haruaki would fight more” and then I remember this isn’t an action manga. Action shounen brainrot is real. What can I say I love swordboys)

Conclusion

So, this has been nearly 7000 words! Congratulations on making it this far, and thank you for reading all of this, I mean it!

I hope you learned something from this. I learned a whole lot researching this, this is probably only 20% of what I actually read up on, but didn’t decide to write about/cut out because it was too irrelevant. (At one point I was researching the history of ginkgo trees)

In fact, researching this actually caused me to reevaluate my opinion on history and sociology, and like, studying and learning as a whole. I should have put citations on this to begin with, but if you want citations for anything I’m sure I’ll be able to find it again.

Doing something like this also makes you realise some things. I had to be so careful with the english sources I looked at, because there’s often this pretentiousness in amping up the “mystical east”. (Which is why, as much as possible, I tried to also look at chinese sources on chinese topics, same with japanese) Of course, there are people writing articles without such attitudes as well, after all, I am one such person writing about this subject matter in english, and I would hope I’ve done it properly. (Though, obviously, as a human I’ve got my own biases too)

And then there’s also the conflicting information, particularly about minute details. (How do people who do research not go insane? Video essayists are a whole different species) Stuff about Ebisu, just off the top of my head. There’s really not much info about him out there, given he’s one of the biggest luck gods out there.

I probably should have split this up into multiple essays, since I knew the student arc post, despite only being 2 chapters, ended up being nearly 4000 words. But everything in every chapter was so interconnected….man….

If you liked this, you might like my other analysis/trivia posts:

Renren arc

Haruaki student arc

Douman analysis

This essay about numbering a yoseito chapter

I don’t know if I have it in me to do something like this for the chapters before I started translating (i.e. anything before Renren arc) for the sole reason that I didn’t spend days poring over every word choice in japanese and chinese, every english word choice, every detail on the page, haha

Maybe I will maybe I won’t. Maybe I’ve gotten better at understanding and writing from writing this.

See you next time something inspires me to write something long like this again. If you send me interesting asks you might be able to trick me into writing 2k words out of nowhere.

(A confession since you read all of this: Sometimes I don’t answer asks because I feel like I don’t have anything interesting to say. Sometimes it’s because I want to keep it in my askbox to look at later. Sometimes I just forget, and then it feels like I’ve taken too long and it’s too awkward to answer it now. I love to read every single one, though. Thank you for reading all of this, thank you for sending asks, and thank you for reading yohaji <3)

#youkai gakkou no sensei hajimemashita #a terrified teacher at ghoul school #yohaji #rambles #analysis

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shijiujun · 4 years ago

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on the danmei twitter fight

okay guys i didn’t wanna say anything about this and yes it’s that hot danmei twitter translations saga thing that’s going on, because honestly i feel like there’s nothing much to say but when i see dumb posts on tumblr taking about that, by people who present a misleading hot take and their friends or moots run off with it without even knowing what exactly is going on - it really pisses me off.

and also if you shit talk translators for not continuing their translations or locking their translations whatever - the door is that way on your right and left, but anyway here’s a rundown on what happened because i am seeing people make comments without two brain cells put together, without the slightest bit of consideration for the people who bring them translations

here’s my hot take and thesis: if you enjoy english translations made by fan translators, you don’t, in any way, no matter happens, shit talk fan translators. fan translators do this for free, and whatever their intentions are, whether genuine sharing or like some of you like to say, for clout, if you consume, and you enjoy these translations, i’m sorry, you’re not uninvolved, and you don’t get to sit on a high horse and say translators should or shouldn’t do something. you should just keep quiet, honestly, because someone else is doing you a favour, a favour that you are enjoying and taking. that’s what respect is.

i’m presenting both sides or i guess three sides of the story as objectively as i can, altho my support is still for fan translators who were just minding their own business before this blew up.

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🔺 what happened:

so it started because one of the bigger translators in the fandom did this poll - i’m not blaming her at all, i doubt she had any intentions of shaming anyone or causing any controversy and was plain curious, but her poll asked english speaking danmei twitter how many people buy the digital, print copies of the danmei they read, and who did not.

in my honest opinion, it’s not strange at all for her to have created that poll, considering just how much work she’s put into making sure things are accessible for the eng-speaking danmei fandom. i mean i’d be curious too, to know out of my thousands of readers, what the reading and buying behaviour is like. do yourself a favour and don’t read too much into it.

obviously in an era where a lot of people do consume content for free whether the underlying content is profit-making (like anime, donghua, manhua, manga etc.) or not (fanfiction etc.), it was unsurprising to see that the last option - the ones who consume danmei without paying a single cent, came out as the majority. i don’t think this is a surprising result at all, for all sorts of reasons that i will not get into now.

anyway, this is obviously kind of a sore point in the fandom especially for translators who want a wider audience to support their fave author’s works - i won’t get into that for now, but the issue began because other translators or fans started to criticize the majority of people who don’t pay for objectively rather affordable danmei and just consume things for free.

and yes, i don’t deny that the argument on both sides got really heated and emotionally charged with both sides calling each other names which i believe is uncalled for, but it totally derailed the crux of the issue, which basically is that the majority of english-speaking danmei fandom - consumes danmei for free.

anyway this whole thing escalated and fan translators were brought into this for no fucking reason at all except that the people who didn’t want, or were unable to pay for the danmei they usually consume, made what i call a LOGICAL FALLACY in argument by going to the extremes, i will explain why later.

the end result is that fan translators were brought into this (most of them, the bigger ones i know at least) without even participating in the direct crossfire. and obviously, you can see why they’re hurt and decided to lock their translations. let me explain why

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🔺 kind of like four camps:

(1) translators and fans who criticized those who consume danmei liberally but do not pay for them in any way - no merch, no digital copies, no physical copies, no audio dramas whatever

*** their arguments:

danmei is so cheap right, that technically people should be able to pay for it in one way or another, even if not all

danmei and its authors are, at the end of the day, out here to earn a living, and the industry, like any money-making industry, is a for-profit enterprise - and unlike public goods, if you cannot afford danmei, then there is no obligation for others to make it free for you (fan translators or otherwise, it wasn’t super clearly stated while this shitshow happened) when it is inherently a for-profit industry

yes, i don’t deny that some of them did call the peeps who don’t pay at all, “leeches” and other sort of names. personally, i wouldn’t go that far or even like venture there to be honest because in general, if it’s something that i’ll get punched in the face for if i called someone that in real life i tend not to do it, but i’ll leave my opinions, whatever they’re worth, for later

(2) the readers and fans of danmei who do not pay in any sort of way for them

*** their arguments:

some of them really cannot afford, even the dollar or more, to spend on danmei for several reasons: upbringing, culture, money-spending mindsets, real poverty, struggling to make ends meet etc. - some definitely more valid than others (and when i say not valid, it’s because SOME, a minority or like those few stragglers, say they cannot afford and then you see them like idk, throwing $50 on other merch on kpop and stuff - i’m just bringing up ONE example. not shaming anyone for spending more money on one aspect rather than the other, but yeah you can see why some of them, when making this same argument, are a little invalid, that’s just a small number of them tho)

if translators are blaming them for consuming free of charge, then the fault lies, at its foundation, fan translators who translate illegally, which i mean, in that definition, all of them including me

did i mention that we were called illegal translators like you know in response to being called leeches? anyway-

(3) others translators who literally were just minding their own fucking business before some smart alec dragged them into it

i don’t think most of us had an argument. we were just quietly munching on popcorn and staying out of it and yeah, can you imagine, we provide a service, however illegal it is, for free on our own time, we don’t even check whether people support legally or not, we just... provide, and pray that those who are able to, at least support in some small way or another do so, on their own time. i mean i don’t check, most of us don’t, not the bouncers at your local club before COVID happened do, and then suddenly, to be used to derail an argument, we were called illegal translators. and that we should stop translating, and that it is our fault that there are free riders in the fandom

(4) people who offered to provide JJWXC credits to those who said they couldn’t afford it etc.

honestly i think they were just trying to help - no different than a gofundme. there’s no shame in taking a free thing that people already weren’t intending to pay for. it’s there, just take it!

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🔺 the shitshow that led to fan translators locking their stuff up:

i would provide some actual examples in the form of screenshots but i’ve blocked most of them, and i don’t want to direct any sort of traffic to them so i guess you’ll have to take my word on it or go search on twitter yourself but-

(1) the affordability issue: i can understand the frustration at being called leeches, and some if not a majority of people, do have valid reasons for not being able to afford something or anything and end up pirating content they enjoy. hey, i am not about to crucify anyone for pirating at some point in their lives. we all have done it at some point, or for example hate disney+ and that $30 they were trying to rip off us for a subpar Mulan live action. i don’t have anything to say about that. inherently, is it wrong and illegal? yeah sure of course it is. do we call people leeches? i wouldn’t go that far.

if anyone cannot afford, cannot access for whatever reason, fine, i’m not gonna go check if jjwxc truly is banned in your country, or is your postal service so terrible that you definitely won’t be able to receive a hard copy of the book you like at affordable rates.

and if you have to pirate? go ahead. i mean it’s always been a rampant thing. the only thing fan translators and fans can do is encourage, motivate and incentivise as much as possible to get people to support legally. they can only put up REALLY COMPREHENSIVE guides as to how to access jjwxc or taobao or whatever.

and if you still cannot afford it and pirate, honestly no one cares about the story behind it. you owe no one justification, just as how no other person is obligated to take it into consideration or understand you or empathize with you. i don’t say this in a malicious way - i do think that in general, you just do you.

(2) the poor people don’t deserve nice things argument: honestly, this was not the point of this entire debacle, altho yes, people were rude to those who could not afford to support legally. but this is not the point of this whole thing.

main point - there are free riders who can support but choose not to because they choose to just consume it for free and if you are able to you should support

everyone going off on a tangent - you guys hate poor people / you guys are leeches

well guess what, no one wins in this argument.

there were a lot of people saying “reading danmei is our only source of happiness, are you saying poor people who can’t access legally don’t deserve to read danmei” (this is just one example i’ve seen, there are other variations), and it wasn’t put across perhaps in the right way, but the other camp of people were saying “you’re not entitled to it for free if you cannot afford it”, which raised a lot of hackles and anti-poor yellings

altho i do not deny that there are those who mean it maliciously, i think what everyone is trying to say is - the danmei industry, like any other profit-making industry, is looking to make profits. the people working in the industry, the authors even, are looking at numbers - traffic to jjwxc or other legal platforms, how much revenue they’re making from their live actions etc., comments, rankings, etc. i think @/hunxi-after-hours made a really succinct post on this aspect which yall should read.

it’s the same as - if you wanted to purchase a standee which costs $20 USD, but you cannot afford it = you don’t get it. there’s no way you can get this standee unless some gifts it to you for free. what the camp trying to ask people to support legally is saying, is that danmei is NOT A PUBLIC GOOD. it is a private, for-profit product. it might be intangible, but it is a PRODUCT that has a price that needs to be paid.

if you cannot afford it, you either don’t get access entirely (i’m saying this objectively and honestly from an economic standpoint). if someone gifts that standee to you for free, count yourself lucky - if someone makes a danmei accessible to you for free, COUNT YOURSELF LUCKY. you don’t have to be grateful and treat them as gods or like obey their every word, but it’s not rocket science. someone did you a favour that you accepted and consumed, show some respect.

if you cannot afford to buy the standee - you do not go on twitter demanding that someone ensures that you have access to the standee for free. do you see how ridiculous this sounds once it’s a tangible product? and danmei novels ARE PRODUCTS. they are not FREE CONTENT. if someone cannot afford the standee, this is the equivalent of people going “we didn’t get the standee for free because poor people don’t deserve nice things”

totally missing the point. i don’t even know how it got to this. once again, i do admit that some users were unnecessarily mean, but going to the extreme of this is ridiculous. in argumentative essay writing we call this a logical fallacy:

e.g. “if you cannot pay for merchandise or danmei, it is a fact that you might not have access to it” morphing into “if we cannot pay for food, does this mean we cannot have access to it?!” - this is a slippery slope, and factors are not equivalent!!!! do they not teach people anything in school

don’t confuse fanfiction with danmei - danmei novels ARE PAID PRODUCTS unless for free chapters, just because it’s released online doesn’t mean it’s free public property, and also selected novels (did you guys know the WHOLE of SCI novel is free? about 500 chapters sorry, random, just a tidbit)

there are of course nuances right, like if anyone told me they were pirating disney+ content i’d be like yeah hey get one over those bloodsuckers, they take enough of our money and produce shit content anyway. the difference is that danmei authors, and the danmei industry itself can still be considered a nascent and not-yet matured industry, with a majority of authors if not all, depending on monetary flow, likes, comments, virality on the sites their content is hosted on, for a living, unlike hugeass MNCs trying to squeeze us dry for content that isn’t even interesting.

danmei is priced rather reasonably - and this brings me to another argument that was made, that the value of money is not the same for everyone. i don’t want to make comments on this because yes this is correct to a large extent. a $6 book might be cheap to most of us, but might be expensive to someone else. i’m not gonna comment on how cheap or whatever it is, if you gotta use your money for other things, definitely! i still maintain however, that a novel less than a dollar should be affordable to most people, a majority of people. and i definitely side eye some users who obviously have money but are just creating noise because they wanna continue free-riding

(4) the “they’re losing out on their international audience” argument: honestly, i feel like english-speaking danmei fandom gives themselves a bit too much credit. danmei has long thrived in china in its domestic market - sure the international audience is a plus to have and i’m sure the authors are grateful and flattered that people who don’t understand chinese love their content and love it a lot, but do they and their companies care about fans who basically don’t bring in money? i’m not sure (okay i’ll get to the fan translators doing illegal shit later okay i got it don’t be impatient)

and international fans are great, i don’t deny that - but when i see arguments like “oh but it’s their loss if they don’t cater or deny access to us, they get more popularity and sharing overseas”, i honestly think they don’t care as much as you think. once again, hunxi made a really good argument regarding non-sinophone audiences, but it really irks me, because this is the same as:

an instagram influencer saying they’ll give a restaurant exposure for free to their followers, if they get a free meal

it’s par for par - danmei authors wants earnings, popularity, tangible results that show that they are succeeding. this is life. if i put something out there for sale, i better be getting returns, simple economic logic. they probably don’t care that a non-paying reader is bringing them greater ‘exposure’ - once again, i mean this objectively.

and yes if they’re thriving without the international market then why should it matter that people are pirating right? which brings me to the next point~

(5) it’s fan translators faults for so many people pirating, and fan translators are the ones doing the “illegal” work: this one is like... wow where do i unpack this and how-

firstly, we are talking about assholes who can pay but decide to free ride and not pay for danmei, and we assume that if you really cannot afford and have to pirate, no one’s saying anything as long as you don’t go around spreading how to pirate, how the hell did it get to fan translators from “you guys are anti-poor” and whatever

yes, fan translations are indeed illegal, i don’t deny that, and i also don’t deny that there are translators who translate for clout and popularity but putting these aside - here’s what i have seen from people who ran their mouths and made this argument

“if you guys care about us pirating the book so much than fan translators shouldn’t have translated in the first place” and “if you wanna come after us for reading illegally, then fan translators, you guys should go get the copyright for the book and then translate it cuz what you guys are doing is also illegal”

hooooo i’m telling ya, i am all for translators locking up their translations at this point. see how fucking hurtful that is? you eat from my hand and then now you biting at the hand that fed you the gays in love?

honestly if you’ve made this argument or supported this, you can basically go to hell. yes this is personal because what, you think fan translators don’t take out their personal time and effort and hard work to make translations accessible to you? if you’re ever consumed and read translations, don’t be a hypocrite and make this argument. you benefitted from it, now you wanna say it’s their fault?

most translators want to share and spread the love they have for a novel right, want to show you how wonderful all these authors are, how much enjoyment u get from reading these wonderfully thought out stories of gays in love. yes we all know we are illegally translating, which is why on top of sharing we first, purchase the novels legally ourselves first, and then we try to encourage people to buy etc. and actually put their money to use. it doesn’t make it any less illegal, but we are bridging the gap between danmei and basically the english-speaking fandom, albeit illegally

we aren’t that self-important to ask for gratefulness but some respect would be nice. like i said, you read it, you consumed it, you enjoyed it, you can only access it because of illegal translators - a bit counter-intuitive to yell at these translators, who are simply telling you, if you can, please support. and none of us went “if you cannot afford, begone!”

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🔺 some people tried to help by offering jjwxc credits so people who cannot afford as they say, can get legal access: honestly, just take it right, guess what some of these users did in response

they said the people giving away credits are trying to redeem themselves for their comments by giving away free stuff

they also said that we are trying to shame the people who cannot afford it with this handout to them, to show that they are the bigger person - the fact that they think this is a handout to them is TELLING. the people offering this is giving their money not to these readers, but to the authors! that’s the point of this exercise!!!

one of them even said “instead of trying to do these giveaways, here, there are greater world problems out there, donate instead to these causes” - love the initiative, but how did we get from being able to afford danmei and entertainment content to saving the world? i just- i cannot

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🔺 so why i get why fan translators are locking up their translations, because wow, so hurtful:

you have no idea how many fucking assholes went “sure, lock up your translations, deal with the consequences” - ermmmm firstly, thanks for making a threat. like who the fuck do you think you are?

the consequences is... the authors still don’t get the money these free riders weren’t going to give them anyway, so no loss, and they weren’t reading on jjwxc anyway so you know, the authors don’t lose or gain any readership numbers or traffic they didn’t already have. instead, it WILL push and force people to pay for the PRODUCT. once again, it’s a product.

this works, and i’d say Word of Honor’s payment model worked marvellously for Youku, because they fucking forced everyone to pay to access content. ALL OF THEM. sure ok some people still pirated it, but how many MORE people paid on Youku, on Youku Youtube, watched on Viki etc. than if they didn’t? even english-speaking fandom were wracking their brains trying to purchase a Youku pass even if there were no subs initially - and other examples that lovely hunxi brought up in her amazing piece

and for translators?! honestly me for one, i’m glad i don’t feel pressured anymore to churn out a chapter every week since we get called names etc. most of us are glad to have a break to be honest. we’ve lost all motivation to translate because it’s a free service, at the very least we don’t expect like hate, or rudeass fuckers. for those who are doing a proof of purchase thing - go for it honestly!

hopefully it’ll minimize the free rider problem - some people for whatever reasons really cannot buy or support legally, that’s totally cool and they don’t have to justify it, i get that. but for others making the same argument but obviously are just unwilling to pay because they can’t read chinese, think it’s too troublesome when there are guides and translators provide it for free anyway so what’s the point - we all make concessions and make decisions to grab what we like (not talking about the ppl who have their various troubles and difficulties!)

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🔺 and those who are saying why is it the ‘rest of us suffer’ from locked translations just because of a few bad apples:

IT ISN’T ABOUT YOU. where the hell were all of ya when we were getting called illegal huh? it’s about us fan translators getting shot at for no reason, and then people still demanding things for free. i don’t see any of the people i’ve seen on tumblr complain about fan translators stopping or locking translations defend any of us in any way. instead, you’re complaining.

it is the translator’s prerogative to start, stop and end translations, unless of course the original author starts to sue i suppose. i see people on tumblr going like if they were gonna do this, they shouldn’t have started in the first place etc. - i don’t what world you live in, but when i do something for free, then get called names and am attacked or get dictated on how i should do something that’s already like free, i tend to be less generous.

i’m sorry, do us illegal and free translators owe ANY OF YOU? i wasn’t aware any of us were being paid for this hobby. readers, especially those who CAN and just refuse to support, don’t get to say SHIT. translators deal with so much shit and so many entitled readers, i say they get to lock whatever they want as long as they aren’t profiting off of this monetarily.

let me give you an example - nan chan, which is translated by lian yin, completed translations by the way for all chapters. it is all free for viewing, and she only locked up one extra and asked for proof of payment. some dumbfuck quotes that locked up extra chapter tweet and said “honestly, this turned me off reading this novel because they restricted access”.

the. fucking. entitlement. the whole of nan chan is free, that’s like what more than 80 chapters. she locked up the EXTRA and the money goes to the author, she doesn’t earn anything. AND HERE THAT BIJ is (yes, i’m going to call them names because you know, fucking asshole who didn’t bother to check) going “yeah i didn’t wanna read because 1/80+ chapters were locked”.

AN EXTRA. LITERALLY AN EXTRA!!!!!!

at the end of the day, translators are not like DYING to translate, not like some of you are DYING to read the translations. once again, this isn’t a “BE GRATEFUL” message, it’s a please be respectful to the people who put in time and hard work for free and share the goodness ya know? what’s the use of yelling at fan translators as if we owe you anything?

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🔴🔴🔴 TOO LONG DIDN’T READ 🔴🔴🔴

some people may need really need to pirate - and no one needs to justify why they cannot afford to purchase etc. pirating happens all the time, translators only hope that when you can, and in whatever way you can, to support legally - in general we don’t ask and we get it! we’re just annoyed that some people think that it SHOULD BE FREE, when it is a paid product, especially for those who CAN afford it

readers are not entitled to shit on translators for what they do with their translations - once again, you’re not OBLIGATED to have it. so what if i start and stop? i’m the one doing the work, i get the only say. don’t be a hypocrite and shit on translators, whose works you’ve read - it’s no loss for translators, we read and enjoy danmei just fine

yes, fan translations are illegal, but you can’t read and enjoy them like some of you have, and then turn around and point the finger at translators - a lot of us are happy to stop translating - this isn’t a threat, but at the end of the day, shitting on translators simply decreases access, and sure, some people can indeed live with you know, MTL or shitty translations from people who’ve learnt chinese for only six months or whatever, but you’re gonna be reading an entirely different book tbh

the people saying illegal translators are at fault - funnily enough, most of them consume the translations, so what the fuck? i mean we know it’s illegal, we’re trying to share the love and trying to minimize the illegalities of it by redirecting people to hopefully support legally. it’s still illegal yes, but i think it’s hypocritical for people who have read translations, stab translators in the back. and now that translators are indeed ‘restricting’ and ‘removing’ their ‘illegal translations’, yall yelling again? and threatening?

fan translators aren’t “elitist” or “classist” - just looking for some respect in a community which seems to have taken them for granted, and also looking for support for their fave authors - and honestly a lot of us were caught in the crossfires truly, don’t be an asshole and demand things from fan translators - who are you talking about? do you know why they decided to lock? do you know know what their locking system is like and what for?

it’s not EASY to lock the translations up - it’s more admin work, it’s putting together a whitelist of people, if given the choice i’m sure translators would prefer to share everything. but not when there are assholes who have a comment on how they should translate etc. and yeah!!! calling us illegal!! i mean we are but still!!

the last straw was seeing that post on tumblr and people in the comments going like fan translators shouldn’t or should do something, without getting the whole picture, without even considering how hard it is for fan translators being caught in this situation.

whoever puts in the work gets to decide, and everyone else should leave them alone.

be nice to the people who really cannot afford as they say so (or just don’t think about it), be nice to the translators feeding you content, and the people who free ride and shit on translators - honestly, i’d say ready the pitchforks.

edit: i forgot to mention this is my hot take and i’ve tried to like present all the arguments i’ve seen so far. i’m definitely not doing all of it justice and i don’t claim to speak on behalf of any of them except maybe one or two- and i’ve definitely left out stuff, but anyway, lmao we’re just tiny people doing what we love. i wish we could solve you know inequality or poverty or hunger or other pressing concerns. if i was that great i wouldn’t be stuck on tumblr or twitter or have to make posts like these like a loser.

thanks for coming to my ted talk.

#danmei #danmei twitter #rambles #long post #literally cannot take the stupidity of some people anymore

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