#I am one of those people that thinks charles should have a wdc

[insert-stupid-username]

[aeh2611]

Okay, so where does this weekend leave us?

I am a little mad at some fans that seem to have the memory span of an amoeba, so let’s talk about it. So Charles finished P2. It’s a pity, it does not look good in his pole-to-win conversion ratio and it closes up the gap between him and Piastri in the WDC. All not good. He (and the team both) selected a strategy that did not suit their car likely due to a lack of runtime in the free practice sessions (since it did not seem as tho he was ever really able to make those hard tires work for him) and he probably should have fought harder for track position as well.

But then I see people claiming that he “isn’t gonna win a WDC anytime soon” or that he isn’t a good driver and the way that public opinion seems to have turned on the guy in TWO WEEKS is wild.

That is the same guy that dragged the Ferrari which was still a tractor at the time to pole in Spa, the same guy that defended against Oscar in a vastly quicker car in Zandvoort for like 25 (?) laps, the same guy that won in Monza against 2 quicker McLarens. And now he looses one position - again ONE, it’s not like he went into the wall or something - and suddenly he’s not all that anymore?

I understand frustration. And I do think that Charles’ could have won today. But maybe everyone should go outside and touch some grass before starting a full on rant against a guy that finished within the P4 for 13 out of the 17 races this season (and yes, that includes Canada and the triple header, my guy would have exclusive P4 finishes if it weren’t for whatever Ferrari had going on in June and July).

Ferrari has got a better car. The Monza package seems to work for them. Are they quite there when it comes to catching McLaren yet? No. The trajectory McLaren had this season is insane, but at least in the last two races it did look as tho the Ferrari was the second fastest car on track. Both Charles and Carlos do feel quite comfortable on street circuits and we still have two of those coming up. So I am looking forward to quite a few good races over the next couple months.

I remember how I thought we were not gonna win any more races this season before the summer break and I am grateful to be in the position we are in now. Sure, not winning from pole is not a great result, but it is not the end of the world and not indicative of Charles being a bad driver. Everyone makes mistakes (seriously, even World Champions, or do you see Lewis or Max perform faultlessly every single race?).

[charles-leclerc-official]

Hi, I am curious what you think about Leclerc vs Sainz. I feel like a lot of Charles fans underrate Carlos (imo he's an upper midfield driver, very solid) but also many Carlos fans treat him like the second coming of Christ, it's insufferable.

Do you think he's pretty close to Charles in terms of ability? I mean he isn't terrible, but Charles is better in the metrics, like one lap pace, race pace, tyre management, race starts, W2W/overtaking (did I miss anything else). I think some of it also comes down to the issues in Charles' garage but I don't know to what extent, I don't have the numbers. I would love to see corrected data from anyone if it's possible, but idk.

I feel like the gap should be bigger. But maybe ironically I am one of those people who underrate Carlos. He is a strong driver but I don't see him in the WDC conversations whereas Charles often is.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Charles has outperformed and maximized the SF-24 more than Carlos has. Suzuka, Spa, come to mind. I don't recall Carlos doing anything particularly extraordinary with the car this season (again please correct me if I am wrong!!) but he has been very solid.

I do know for sure that in terms of raw talent, Charles is better than Carlos. Higher peaks too.

I mean, I think that the numbers and data really speak for themselves. By any measure Charles is the better driver, but that doesn't mean that Carlos isn't a solid driver who pulls consistent results. Two things can be true and I think that usually gets overlooked. The comparison fallacy a lot of people try to paint when comparing any drivers is that if one driver is better then it means the guy they are comparing him to is bad, when those are not the only options. You can have two good drivers on a team and one be better than the other, it happens a lot.

As far as fans go, I don't really like to attack anyone for hyping their driver. Of course fans are going to say their driver is the best, we all do it, so I don't think that's unique or anything to read too deeply into.

Your assessment it pretty accurate as far as performance goes. Charles pushes things to the next level and demonstrates his skill weekly. I agree, Carlos has been solid, nothing extraordinary, but solid.

I think Carlos' best performance this year as far as driving goes was probably Austria. He stayed close enough to the front even with the SF-24 struggling to be able to podium when Max and Lando went out. Australia was probably his best qualifying lap (possibly tied with Monaco tbh)

Pretty close is subjective. I don't think they are in the same category, I think Charles is the better driver in just about every category and the data does support this. Correcting the data for all their DNFs and car trouble would be an undertaking. I believe someone did that for them through 2023, but we have more data now so.

And the gap between teammates shouldn't be too big. If it is then there is a problem. Either with the talent the team has hired or the car. They are in the same car so the gap isn't going to be massive if they are both driving well, even if one is better. Ideal results are 1-2s or as close as we can get to that.

I think one reason people get lost in the gap to the teammate "debates" is they just take the result stats and the H2H graphics, when digging into the actual track performance and data reveals a more detailed look at a drivers actual performance. Results only tell you so much. And of course there are just a lot of things that are outside a driver's control.

[laura1633]

I have to start this by saying that I am primarily a Max fan but I really like and respect Charles as a racer. Also, these are random thoughts and I don’t have all the stats and stuff to back it up so if you are just going to angry and shout at me don’t bother, just block me or something - these are literally just my thoughts

But….. despite all that I’m still going to randomly shout into the internet because I have nowhere else to get these thoughts out of my head….. I'll put most of it below the cut.

I’ve not studied Charles’ race strategies etc but Ferrari really do seem to love to put him on some random tyre strategy. It’s like they are trying to make up for all the awful strategy calls of the past by trying to outsmart the other teams but just end up making more and more bizarre calls. I get that you can’t always get decisions right and when you don’t have the fastest car you have to take a chance but they seem to do it so often with Charles. Why can’t they just let him race?!!! He’s quick and talented but I feel like we don’t get to see his full potential in races because he’s always on some weird strategy that puts him wildly out of position 

Yes he has had lots of pole positions and often they don’t convert to wins. A lot of people see this as a negative rather than focusing on the fact that he is just able to get a lot out of the car in qualifying and often puts that car higher up than it should rightfully be. Would they just prefer him to qualify further down?! The car is not always capable of winning and there are a whole host of reasons why he hasn’t converted all those poles into wins and no its not because he isn’t good enough!

Maybe this is controversial and don’t come at me if you are a Carlos fan because this isn’t a rant against Carlos but I read so many comments from people saying Ferrari favour Charles. They didn’t even favour him when he was in the running for the championship so why on earth would they be favouring him now!! Even if they had have been favouring him (which I don’t think they have been) then I would understand it - he has shown that when the car is capable he can be in the running for the championship, he can drive a fast car really fast and Ferrari should be developing a car that can compete for the championship not fighting for runner up spots. I feel like Charles is the driver that could deliver them a WDC!

If I see one more person use pathetic nicknames like Charles Lecry I am going to scream!! If anyone should be crying about their team it is him but he doesn’t! From what I have seen he takes responsibility when he makes mistakes and is surprisingly calm given the amount of times Ferrari seem to screw him over. 

I don’t know what the point of this post was. I don’t know where else he could go at the moment and I know he is loyal to Ferrari so won’t want to move anyway but I feel like they aren’t showing him the same loyalty back. Ferrari have a young, super talented driver and they should be building a team around him for the future but instead they seem all over the place. I guess I just want him to be able to show his true potential, I am fed up of people saying he is overrated when we have seen what he is capable of with the right car. I just hate the idea of talent going to waste!!

I honestly doubt anyone has read this far but if you have thank you for listening! Like I said, I have no facts just feelings

Sorry for the rant

[inchidentally]

(not gonna post the link you sent bc I don't wanna tread on other people's stuff since we're all out here in the tumblr wild to talk about these rich men and their problematic silly sport in any way we want to. I'll reply with my thoughts but remember that they're my own and I am NOT telling someone else how to feel)

okay so fully removing the ship lenses and assuming they're not wishing any hostility towards Oscar or any future teammate of Lando's at McLaren: holy SHIT no. fuckballs NOOOO.

ok from a purely practical/realism standpoint Carlos will not be taking any steps backward. based purely on Ferrari's overall performance and the fact that Charles is a damn good match as a teammate (hi Singapore) Carlos is exactly where he should be for WDC contention. McLaren are out there competing hard with them and with the Mercs but to see them outpacing those cars would be solely down to the youth and combined competitiveness of Lando and Oscar they've invested in - so still no dice for Carlos in the foreseeable. I'm not F1 smart enough to know how likely it would be that he'd go to RBR but even there I'm not sure how he and Max would work together again with Max's dominance and ummmm Carlos' least favorite thing being following team orders to concede to his teammate. followed by what would become Carlos' first least favorite thing which would be to drive Max's car since development only works one way at RBR. and that's all assuming that Lando stays with McLaren and that Oscar chooses to leave. the first being reasonably likely and the second is too soon to tell. then there's the fact that by that point Lando would not be considered McLaren youth anymore and they'd be highly unlikely to bring on someone even older to partner him. ((add to that the fact that Carlos will never be an Alonso and will definitely get married early in his thirties and move on to different types of racing or maybe even a different field in racing)) Lando will be a Lewis and stick with F1 competitively chasing wins and WDCs (especially if he can outlast Max's boredom threshold) and he won't be interested in nostalgia hires unless they can help him with that goal.

but moving on to the more parasocial fandom side of it…

honestly the biggest surprise to me is seeing people think that they were equals ??? during their season together?? Lando was a tiny baby who has talked about how being partnered with Carlos fed his anxieties and insecurities! he saw this seasoned driver learning the car faster than him, knowing the circuits better than him and speaking to the team with more confidence than him. lbr when his "trophy" was Carlos' champagne while Carlos celebrated his podium, Lando did NOT look completely happy being forced into that celebration (and I seem to recall later on him even ruefully saying "it wasn't my celebration but anyway"). Carlos literally saw Lando as a baby brother and treated him as such but he also had no clue what to do with Lando's darker moods besides try to cheer him up (and sometimes fail).

I am someone who likes to keep the streams of real life and rpf totally crystal clear and separate and I also like to keep the reality of who these drivers are free of anything I imagine about them for fantasy. when Carlos isn't winning or at least happy with his result, he isn't remotely a team player (and with a team like Ferrari it's hard to blame him sometimes lol). I guess for some people? it's easy to think that Carlos would become a totally different driver when on a team with Lando from ~the power of love~… but that would also have to hand-wave when he actually was Lando's teammate. (it would also hand-wave that Carlos and Charles are also good friends and much more flirty and lovey dovey but Carlos still fights against Charles like a beast when he's in the car)

this man is in it to win it. if you called him soft for a teammate or said that the foremost reason he gave Lando DRS in Singapore was for Lando's benefit he would laugh in your face. at no point in the incredibly stressful final laps was Carlos going "aw shucks I hope my lil buddy can be up there with me let me rig this to make it happen" bc by that point in a race they are thinking in nothing but driving binary and /how do I cement my win against all the bastards behind me/. Carlos does NOT revolve even a small part of his racing career around Lando or any other driver. he doesn't even regard much of his team's input (again, probably for the best with Ferrari). even when he gets direct help from Charles following Ferrari strategy (see Singapore) I still can't really recall that he was overly effusive in acknowledging that fact. he's modeled himself much more on the F1 generations of more like two generations back. and why shouldn't he? so I do not get how people can still think that drivers - especially Carlos' type - are remotely friendly with anyone when they're on the circuit. sure they might get even more pissed off at a driver they aren't keen on but literally /everyone/ is their enemy and their own result is their one goal. that's literally their job.

and as Lando says himself, no one in F1 including him wants to beat anyone more than their own teammate. again. how do people think that Lando would take this entire career he's worked so incredibly hard for and make it about a guy he golfs with (in groups, folks) and occasionally goes to dinner with (which he also does with Daniel) and talks to during the drivers parade (he also consistently seeks out Max, George and Yuki) but has a thriving professional and social life that has nothing to do with Carlos? yuk|erre, maxie| and ga|ex are out there doing far more shippy type things than car|ando all the damn time but when have they ever let that affect their desire to win or beat each other??

nothing about little unseasoned raw lamb cutlet Lando with hairy alpha Carlos at McLaren at all resembles what their dynamic would be as teammates. and the fact that Lando is really liking this new feeling of being the superior favored driver bodes horribly for how he'd react to Carlos swinging his huge sexy cojones back into McLaren expecting to be the number one again by age and experience. folks should enjoy getting to see them during the drivers parade and out golfing as non teammates bc the adorable content of 2019 would curdle into something grotesque if they now had to do goofy challenges while slowly learning to hate the sight of each other during briefings as they sought to supplant the other in the standings.

in no way on this or any other earthly planes can I be convinced that having them compete on the same team again would be anything other than a trainwreck and result in them not even speaking for the next 10-15 years.

[valyrfia]

UGH I love RB Charles-Max discourse.

I completely understand the criticism I really do. BUT those criticisms of not having two WDC contenders on a team only applies when you have a midfield car where strategy (and inevitable prioritisation) to compete with other teams is essential. But, when you’re a top team with an overly dominant car (I think we are at the start of a red bull domination era that may last some 5/6 years the way we are in Ferrari/Merc depression era for another couple of years) that issue just isn’t the same.

The issue with Charles and Max is that the second seat has been notoriously difficult to fill and everyone that teams with them is stuck in their shadow or can’t compete at their level. RB would defo be taking a risk in abandoning their current strat of placing all hopes on Max but at the same time I don’t think they’re incapable of actually giving equal opportunity to the drivers and the only reason that people think that right now is because Max is completely outperforming his teammates so obviously he is their favoured ‘golden boy’.

I also think that in the situation of having to battle with other teams Max and Charles would work very well together. They have an extremely similar driving style that would make collaboration without communication very easy.

In truth the biggest challenge would be to extricate Charles from Ferrari since it seems like they are trying to build themselves back up around Charles and have another Schumacher era with him. It will defo be up to him to make that decision and up to RB to convince him.

we’re definitely entering/are already in a red bull domination era that will last for a while. if red bull want to play it safe, they'll sign daniel again and sit back and enjoy max absolutely demolish another 4 world championships. however, i think their best strat is to sign another n1 driver in order to really establish their complete dominance over the sport and there's only really one option to compliment max and it's charles leclerc. max and charles have already proven that they can work together to get points (thinking of brazil 2022 and max not letting his teammate pass so that charles got 2nd in wdc) + they know each other's driving the best out of anyone else on the grid because they've been racing vs each other for so long.

i am delusional but i don't think that ferrari is going to fight for charles (not in the way they should) because of their own pride. especially with charles equal with points with carlos at the moment, they'll use that as an excuse that charles has fallen off (he hasn't, they just don't service his car correctly but i doubt they'll admit to that). the reason why i believe this is because it's completely the wrong strategy and it's ferrari and whoever is making their strats at the moment is just consistently making the wrong call.

i think lestappen rbr 2024 is more likely than we think. i also reckon red bull will push for it to keep max on the grid longer (since he's talking about retiring after 2028 right now, i think because he's bored that there's no real competition - if you introduced charles leclerc in a competent car i think he'd change his tune)

[pumpkinnning]

Your tags on that Charles and Ferrari post ring so true!!!

(I'm assuming this is the same anon 😅)

yes exactly ! The way people have been talking about Charles re:Ferrari lately has felt kind of very one note and low key a bit disrespectful ngl like he's too stupid to quit something that's hurting him but like you said, it's not like he has any better options at the moment. He would maybe have a better car at RBR or Merc but he would clearly be on "enemy" territory and I think people underestimate how much fitting in a team impacts performance. (And it's not like those teams have an actual opening rn)

And yeah like @mountinez pointed out very accurately, it's his choice, he's a grown man and he knows his options far better than any of us do.

And putting the idea of an individual win so far above a win with the team he loves is very idk...focus on the toxic macho individualistic superman aspect of sports (It's the part of DTS i find honestly really annoying i think they should pay more attention to the team work and the mechanics and all the others who make this possible instead of staging all those fake little cockfights but anyway) it's like all those pundits saying Charles should Take Charge more like a Real Man and invent his own strategies and everything else instead of you know trusting the people whose job it is and actually have the data like bitch please !!!!

Like in the end I'm a Charles fan before anything else so if he leaves Ferrari I will think it's badass and healthy and if he stays I will praise his loyalty and commitment 😂😂 but whatever he does there will be a chance for it to fail and it will be easy to talk shit about what he should have done in hindsight but the truth is we don't know shit about what is really happening behind the scenes and a big part of it is down to luck and timing

And when it comes to rpf and writing fictional narratives inspired by all this - yes of course the pain and addiction of devotion to sth that doesn't love you back and the martyr/saint imagery it's all very compelling

Lmfao anyway yes i am in the Thinking about Themes part of writing fic rn but yeah !!! I find this whole thing incredibly compelling and if/when Charles wins the WDC with Ferrari I will cry like a little baby for 3 days at least

but there is also a lot more there !!!

what about the power fantasy of loving sth so hard you change its very nature ? What if patient love and commitment gets rewarded for once ? (What does it mean if we write it as always destined for failure?)

What about saying no this imperfect thing i am fighting for is mine actually i am taking ownership and I am not going to cede ground to people playing selfish little games with it or leave it to crumble and succumb to its worst impulses ?

Most of all, what about the journey mattering more than the end and the people you chose to do this with mattering more than the victory and honoring your dreams and passion mattering more than beating the statistics ?

If we are going to write stuff inspired by real people we should at least try to honor a bit of the complexity of real life and give space to complex ambivalent feelings

[slow-button-off]

I think the way charles is perceived by a lot of people has a lot to do with ferrari having bad cars in 2020 and 2021. Because circa 2019 he had pretty much the same reputation than max, they were seen as equals and their results were quite similar. And max was racing on f1 for a longer time, so it was impressive. But then in the next years, max was able to keep being competitive and winning, thanks to his car and team, while charles was stuck with a bad car. So suddenly max is on another level and charles is a "lesser theath". Once Charles got a good car in 2022 he was on the same level than Max again, but then of course ferrari had many other issues... but people don't go over analyzing all those things, they just look at results. And results are charles has only 5 wins and Max has two wdcs. In the end of the day they're both super talented, but one got lucky to be in a team at a good moment and the other didn't

I've been thinking about this for a looong time because back in 2019 the consensus of pundits seemed to be that Charles is super cool calm and collected and that Max should learn from that.

And now it's seemingly the opposite.

And I personally am of the opinion that both those ideas are off. And I do think that Max has gotten a bit calmer throughout the last few years (getting older will do that you).

But it's super interesting to see the opinion do a 180 when imo not that much has changed. Things are surely different but not that different.

On these comparisons, I think it's always hard to compare drivers careers because the car they were in makes such a big difference.

But if you want to compare drivers then compare them by the amount of races and not their absolut achievements at a specific age. Age matters sure, but the seasons in F1 and in which cars matter more.

And if you compare their first 100 races and remember that out of those 5 seasons Charles spent 2.5 seasons (2021 I'm giving the benefit of doubt here) in cars that had no chance of winning a race at all on merit. And for Max it was like 1 season iirc.

Then suddenly they are very very comparable again. The main difference being that Charles has significantly more poles.

Max has had some shit cars (that TR) and he's had some RBs that decided to stop working mid race. But again remembering that Charles had the SF1000 and his Sauber and this is not at all a bad comparison. Especially if you remember how many times Ferrari have fucked him over in some capacity

I would say that Max rn is the better driver and he has more experience especially experience fighting at the front. But it's not like Charles is miles off in some other universe the way that some people want to pretend he is.

[alexalblondo]

hi! this is gonna be so random and sudden i'm sorry but i have a question -- how do you cope with people writing off and criticizing seb? i started to really stan him over winter break (mostly because of blogs like yours!) and i made the mistake of reading three articles that said aston martin made a mistake in choosing seb (one from max, one from eddie jordan, and one from reddit) and i'm just... just y'all fucking wait to eat your words sebastian "twink-turned-fuckboy-turned-father" is gonna be back to kick all of y'alls asses 😤😤😤 but honestly tho like how do you cope with that. it's fine if you don't answer this (ik this may be sudden and draining) but i hope you're having a good day!! 💓

Hello 💕

Okay, so this ask is super old and I remember seeing it and having so many thoughts and then no time to answer and then forgetting and then remembering but being embarrassed cause it took me so long and ... I just reblogged sth about toxic traits and yeah, that’s one of mine: never answering messages 🙈

So I am sorry but if you still care: here are my thoughts!

(Under a read more cause a bitch has things to say)

I should admit beforehand that I am still fairly new to online fandom of F1, I didn’t really consider getting involved in it when I watched as a child and I didn’t care enough to look for fandom when I restarted keeping up with it in like 2018 ... until Ferrari fired Seb and ya‘ll kept trending that is 🙈😂

But back to dealing with the criticism, I think it comes down to a few things:

1, You have to figure out what you want from F1 and especially this fandom! Me, I met some really cool people and I found out I love making memes so that’s what I am doing and - this is my white girl privilege I guess - I will sometimes ignore toxic stuff so it won’t kill my mood (it‘s easier with Seb than it is with Alex cause some of ya‘ll are ✨racist✨)

2, consider who is criticizing Seb, which for me is such a big thing cause if you look at the people the criticize him (Max aside) it‘s never the people who know him and never the people who actually raced against him! Those people are usually full of praise of him, like Lewis or Charles or Horner or fuck, even Mark! Hell, even Fernando has by now admitted that Seb didn’t deserve the shit he said about him back then!

3, what are they actually saying? I mean, generally speaking it‘s always: Seb is washed up. Seb is too sensitive of a driver. Seb just got lucky being in RBR at the time. Sbinalla! And just, you know what? You don’t get 4 titles, you don’t become the third most successful driver of all time and you don’t take the fight so close to Lewis and Mercedes for so long by sheer luck!

4, Seb says he doesn’t care and while I think it’s bullshit that he doesn’t care at all - I think Seb has been in this sport too long and has gotten too much shit even when he was running the show to actually give the critics too much space so why should I? I am here to support Seb not to fight assholes!

5, one thing that plays into this but for me deserves it’s own point: you mentioned the thing about proving the critics wrong and while I want Seb to come out on top with Aston Martin ... I also think he has fuck all to prove to anyone, buddy IS the third most successful driver (so far), he IS a four times WDC, he IS an amazing athlete ... and most importantly he seems to be a wonderful human being and a loving father and honestly that‘s more important to me and also means (imo) he has shit all to prove to anyone, especially guys like Max or Martin Brundle or men on reddit who haven’t had a quarter of the success he‘s had!

6, and this is where I commit sacrilege so please no one cancel me as a Seb fan but: one thing that really helped me deal with people criticizing Seb is the fact that I accepted (for myself) imho Seb really isn’t the best driver ever ... he isn’t as talented as Lewis or Michael or Ayrton or whatever ... he does have more flaws as a driver ... he can be a bully on track ... he makes dumb mistakes ... but you know what? Idc! That‘s the thing for me: Idc if he‘s the best or if he’s winning or if he beats so and so and proves so and so wrong cause I like HIM both as a driver and a person and I want him to be happy and I wanna support him and while I am obviously always hoping he comes our on top if he doesn’t? Eh, that‘s okay for me! What I love about Seb is that he’s been so successful despite all his flaws because for me Seb wasn’t this successful cause he’s oh so talented (like Max supposedly is) but cause he put in the work! For me Seb proves that sometimes loving something and then working for it ... even when you might not be as good at it initially ... is worth it! That wanting something bad enough can get you somewhere even when everything wants you to fail

And that‘s my thought and if you do read it dear anon, I hope you are well and this helped or maybe you have completely different thoughts by now or don’t even care about Seb anymore but yeah, this is how I deal!

Anyways, stay frosty and remember: red means stop but green means go!

[insert-stupid-username]

If the 2025 wdc is not Max, Lewis, or Charles I will lose it. The only person that could win that I'd be semi okay with would be Oscar