#I always see things about how ~problematic these two ships are which is the biggest load of bs imo!!

[userlaylivia]

@nessa007, @another-step-you-take, @cuddlyreader

[horizon-verizon]

Isn’t it kinda weird that people ship daemyra? I'm not targeting daemyra, but the shippers. Though their relationship was acceptable in their era, I see many fans using this as a pretext to actively endorse it, which is problematic. It's one thing to acknowledge the historical and cultural context of a relationship, but it's another thing entirely to romanticize or ship it when we now have the knowledge and understanding that one of the individuals involved is a child.

Need your opinion on this

DISCLAIMER: I am a Daemyra shipper. Read with caution.

You're essentially asking why it isn't a dealbreaker? You could refer to my post HERE, but here it is in short:

Perhaps I'm going to be flowery, exhaustive, and "purple prosey" again, but I think it is basically that that very context creating the exploration of a tragedy of forces stronger than oneself. People love tragic tales, esp doomed ones. It's almost always validating in that there is a persistence of self against outside pressures that may or may not (but usually does) have said pressures be compulsions to conform against one's own happiness or authenticity, even and sometimes especially when the couple dies at the end. That in of itself is a sort of "resistance" that's supposed to coincide with GRRM's whole thing of "choosing life in spite of death" or "we found love in a hopeless place" sort of thing in ASoIaF, but for royals and in a royal iteration.

Rhaenyra's story is a doomed one not because she was the entire cause of the Dance pr some evil temptress but bc the historical actions of her ancestors and the feudal-patriarchal system they all live under has already set up designs against women and those the women could use to occupy the positions granted to men. GRRM loves his tragic tales of love; look at Rhaelya! But they also tend to--long way forward--lead to strains of hope in later generations...which works to make the whole thing even more bitter sweet and melancholy. They also both buy into it of course, which certainly contributed, but from the jump we know these two will not succeed. So from there it's a thing of enjoying the couple as they are and what they serve in the narrative. Oh, and of course the true star is Dany, and Rhaenyra had to die for Dany's story to be what it was (death of the dragons, women subjugated, Targs losing their sense of self leading to the Rebellion).

When there is no or mostly and actively morally upright party like a Daenerys, humans will root for the most impressive, thrilling, or aesthetically beautiful story/characters/relationships that scratches that itch some. You can certainly whack GRRM for creating so many ships that are this too-taboo thing(s), but people are very prone to misleading some things about people-as-people that I think (even with the historical inaccuracies GRRM defends as "accurate" about ages when noble people married) the writer does convincingly capture between this "conversation" in his work about the relationship between environment and choice. At least for enough people that there is something to how he's doing it.

And then, yes, sometimes people will over-romanticize, and much more than I think you're imagining it, anon. I've read some fics...let's say that sometimes people feel the need to dramatically change the characters that always puts me off bec it erases what was fun about them in the first place.

Here it is written in another way:

A)

The draw of Daemyra for a lot of people is that CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND EVEN DESPITE/BECAUSE OF THEM, they had one of the most the strongest bonds for the longest time (and yes, even with Daemon loving Laena) in the orig story and they matched each others' drive/fire/pride (the last in all its meanings). They seem (operative word here) to understand each other the most, were the most comfortable with each other, and were the others' biggest support.

Again, it's not exactly the incest but what the incest/age gap (IN THE CONTEXT GRRM CREATED) does for the bond that comes to be.

Daemon for all intents and purposes could have become a perfect culmination of patriarchal privilege and male pride: one of the best warriors of his time, access to one of the most formidable and impressive creatures through his state of birth, action-oriented but not opposed to using strategy tactics, nearly irresistible to women an attitude and inspiring enough to men both in the story and in the fandom with his charisma, blah blah. And he certainly still had all those things or was written that way.

The kickers are that he's forced to acknowledge his truer desires to support his family towards prosperity and survival--where his loyalty to Rhaenyra comes in--and those desires are so much a priority he basically shuns much else, or at least removes himself from that, and thus he cannot/does not bother to put on much airs or try to gain approval...which is a very common thing amongst nobility who often curry favor or imagine themselves to be "good" people because they follow an honor code. There's a "purity" to that, an shameless honesty that draws people in similar to how some people feel about Oberyn and Jaime. And it especially is very attractive to people who have quite a bit of shame themselves over love and sex (for whatever reason, religious shame, queer shame, female shame for sexuality and desiring a stronger partner even anyway) and are (at first or never) inclined to not to try to ennoble it but are lonely and looking for a story of a strong connection/ride or die. That loyalty to Rhaenyra is a "flaw" that some men in the fandom never forgave GRRM for.

Rhaenyra similarly could have been a typical or ideal princess--either way, people wouldn't have liked her or found something to say was a damning "flaw" to say she deserved her fate-- and in some ways, she was. Loved wearing luxurious things and showing off her beauty, beautiful, fertile. But she's inplacably different from the ideal of Andal patriaechy be

Rhaenyra "replaced" Daemon as heir, yet instead of really planning her downfall and committing to his ire against Viserys (yes after being forced away), he appears accept his subordinate position towards the middle and end of his life, even before they marry and fully commitsd to her without losing his own...je-ne-sais-quoi. Despite her loneliness and the surrounding doubt around her for being a female heir, Rhaenyra never seemed to seriously lose her belief in her right to occupy that sort of space and never demurred like some other female characters we (pre-the rise of YA fiction and the Capable+Alluring MC Girl/Woman) were familiar with WHILE not being that kind or good a person (the trope of a Steel-Under-Silk strong, Lady usually has the Lady be good or kind of selfless, sometimes to the point of self effacement). Both had a sort of belief in themselves to a degree and under contexts that put off both readers and their own contemporaries--for different reasons...sometimes the same ones. that sort of symmetry is very appealing BECAUSE OF AND UNDER THE CONTEXT of a world and system (unequally, but the closest it's gotten and could get).

B)

The argument of "for the time/environment", I think, is for use of when we have people claim that some characters like Ceryse Hightower, Larra Rogare, Daemon, Viserys I are pedophiles...when we have Robert Baratheon, Craster, Walder Frey, etc. right there. that they go out of their way to mess up children or teens bec they are genuinely want them for their teenhood/childhood. The childness (full knowledge of childness) is exactly what they aim for.

Sure, none of these characters do not and cannot have the exact same moral systems or values as real moderns (sometimes Western people) do...because they simply do not have that framework to live on and through. So automatically saying a character is a pedo or a groomer can be hasty and inaccurate.

SOMETIMES (again, Walder, Craster, Robert).

It requires one to think about what a groomer or a pedo really is. Which I've squared down to the person wanting to prey on what is known to them and everyone around them as a "child" or "too young" that is socially excluded from every practice and dynamic of sex and romance that adults are expected to participate with each other, and not with said child (or simply manipulate them away from their security/non-security to do so) because the "child" cannot develop psychologically/physically when said adults interrupt their development and/or make them think is one thing when it is the other. Characters like Daemon, Viserys, etc. do not try to seek out what is recognized as "children" or "childlike" (and the "young maidens" or virgins the text states weirdly juxtaposes the lack of Daemon continuing said behavior into his adulthood, which true groomers/pedos always do). All this is strictly against the idea of him being a "groomer", even though like other men and a few women, he gets into something with 14/15 yr old Rhaenyra...

HOWEVER, it is true that patriarchies tend to apply sex-purity values in ways that inevitably encourage attentions on teens (as these are the closest) AND this ALSO doesn't mean that GRRM wasn't/isn't trying to say that this is still a wrong thing for 111 A.C. Daemon to have done and that it wasn't potentially screwy. (I think this is kinda what also "saves" it for some people, that the narrative acknowledges this particular crazy as crazy).

And just as with Dany and Drogo and the age revealed at her first pregnancy, even with Dany having been a bridal slave to Rhaenyra's princess and thus presenting a more visceral stake the latter doesn't have, determining how one sees Dany's regard for Drogo as blatant victim-mindset. For Daemyra, though, it's still not exactly the same and it's just that there isn't much for a claim, story-wise not life wise, of blatant you-know-what-it's.

There are about 4 main theories as to why Daemon of the bk does what he does with Rhaenyra:

he wanted to get back at Viserys for all the years of his ignorance and the recent event of his shipping Mysaria off only her her to lose what would have been Daemon's first kid (so a denial of person, position, and his own heir/family when he seemed to start trying to make himself after a long series of war in the Stepstones, also trying to make some "glory" for himself that Viserys--for him--keeps preventing or ruining)

he thought that the issues of succession Rhaenyra or even Viserys might have with the burgeoning greens, esp Otto, would be better handled if he forced Viserys to have him and Rhaenyra marry and combine lineages...tag him in, coach, he's been ready and you're not doing the job right, so let me in (ironically, I think this is very Visenya-coded...no one is going to be as competent and dedicated as me...just [ugh] with all the male trappings and privilege that shaped his...all that) -- a burgeoning storm they all had to prepare for, and he has to be there for them to survive -- he sees Rhaenyra at court surrounded by greens and is so offended he's even more determined--some might read "desperate"--to handle things even with such little...grace, shall we say

he was "tailoring" and "preparing" Rhaenyra to become more like the wife/partner that would make him most happy and rationalized that he would pay her back with his "hand" and sword, bc they were the best bet for their house...yeah...

when he got there and saw Rhaenyra in her "marriageable" state, he became attracted to her and similar to Laena and the duel, decided to "risk" the damage to his own rep...without letting himself onvder over the possible damage to Rhaenyra

or, ALL OF THE ABOVE...SOME OF THE ABOVE

Whatever Daemon did with her/to her (sex, kissing, near-sex, groping, etc., we don't know what happened but I think it was either sex or something that looked like it would definitely lead to that), it wasn't based on a habit and intention of straight up p*dophilia. More so him being very selfish, continuing the pattern of Targ men Targ-menning against their female counterparts. Using Rhaenyra against Viserys, putting his foot down, whatever.

Therefore he was still abusing his experience and relation with her, the "child-not-child-who-should-have-been-seen-as-a-child-but-wasn't-bc-society-and-patriarchal-selfishness/advantage". So I don't fault or perfectly disagree with people who say "groomer!" After all, their priority is not allowing other crazy people or out already-male-scorched world in further footholding for nonsense in the real world. Can't call them stupid or morally incorrect for that or being concerned. However, I still think there's a misunderstanding of what's being conveyed by the text versus what such a thing would be in real life (Watsonian vs Doylist) AND we can't stop ourselves form writing or showing even the odd and taboo or genuinely concerning stuff when there's something to be shown/told.

It changed to what it needed to be, became what was its potential, AND Rhaenyra was set to marry someone else (before the confirmation that it was always gonna be Laenor, and she didn't know it was him until last minute) who she would likely never be able to trust because of her position, men, yada yada. Might as well be someone she cared for her entire life and we know would not go out of his way, even shift for someone he thought was "worthy", and whoo-boy, was Rhaenyra "worthy" to Daemon. Again, refer to the doomed narrative.

Now Daemon here is so not exactly a good guy if he:

was willing to use his own about-to-married-off-and-subiect-to-purity-politics-standard-that-could-affect-her-reputation both as a girl/woman-as-a-female-heir niece in this way, even if it was after Viserys basically caused him and Mysaria to lose their first kid and came after years of Viserys basically ignoring Daemon--Daemon's eyes, bk and show--in favor of a man who could never hope to be as loyal as Daemon....IN FACT, THIS PROVES HE WAS NEVER THE "GOOD" GUY (I'm yelling at some fics)

prioritizes "sameness" and it comes off as arrogance--"only people like me can handle all this"...however, he'd be not totally incorrect (just annoying to some, charming to others, a little bit of both and feeding-into-each-other for others-others). He's not only a person who grew up, like both female and male nobles, value having the highest classed and prestigious person as a potential mate even if it may contradict "obedience" and he like others wishes to, he also. Again, the appeal of SYMMETRY. And sameness (albeit, in lesser degrees) does have an importance in how many people define what their ideal partner is. Not have the same hobbies or ways and color of dress, but values. Which Rhaenyra and Daemon have the potential of to the max.

If a potential partner's "worth" to be of a certain category or class...but it's fun to see shamelessness at a point AND such shamelessness works to, again, support said female character bc it's a great pair to loyalty, which Rhaenyra needs a lot of and assurance of from. And, no, I don't think she got enough of that from Harwin for all that she did love him (if they did become lovers...but I know you know they were, come on now). Those two had to hide; Rhaenyra's not a hider, not where it doesn't concern her kids' safety at least.

C)

Ironically those assurances come from the reversed--or at least done a little topsy turvy--familial relations, feudal constraints, AND the reality of Targaryens being both a part of this society but also not really on part because of their dragons/innate magicness but also because they are the ruling family.

They are apart from most people around them and find more things in common between themselves, us against the world (yes, in the bk, too); isolated always--unless you're like Rhaena, Dreamfyre's 1st rider, who could and did find female friends everywhere and discovered more freedom and comfort in them through their woman-ness than anyone in her family...but even then, she was more or less emotionally isolated just by being such a woman and a Targ, and the male stink still manages to encroach its way in through Androw Farman and the love she had for Androw's father/her lover's love for said Androw. and as royals, they are by social definition not in physical proximity, thus not as easier seen as any more than political figures/leaders. I mean, sure, we might say "boo hoo", and we'd not be totally wrong, but there is still an effect of treating people not like people that humans have never been able to rein in, and it's important to how the Targs handled many things and were perceived, thus how they responded--queue Jaehaerys I. When we especially talk about the costs to oneself and to how others treat you under the nonphysical protections of power. Whether for good or ill.

Contrast to Jaehaerys and Alysanne, who, thought GRRM notes as one of the greatest pairs, also end up separated by Alysanne's & Jaehaerys' fights over their children's safety and places in the succession, with the obvious running line of it going back to misogyny for the sake of assimilating/holding power instead of using it for making the said society a little better/a lot better.

Contrast to Daario and Daenerys (yes, yes, why would I compare PoV character's observations of a person vs a history book, we get it), Daemyra/RoguesDelight has Daemon knowing and giving more suggestion of longevity bc it's suggested in the text that he had access to the most intimate stirrings of Rhaenyra's head (final letter at Maidenpool as well as all I said above) in a way Daario never did or wanted to with Dany. Oh, of course Daario knew Dany loved her people, was lonely, was all that and the 3rd; but I trump that up to be his observation of what she needed and wanted so he could indulge in being with such a woman and profit from it. Even though he wasn't exactly terrible or whatever, or impatient. This is far from Dany's fault, tbc. Daario is gonna Daario. But, as one person kind brilliantly explained about Dany being a goddess in Twitter:

Part of her struggles is w being dehumanized as a symbol of power but she constantly subverts that by placing the weight of her responsibility/influence into liberating ppl.

Jaehaerys I sorta sets himself and his later scions, by contrast, even with it having had the desired effect of getting people off his back about sibling incest. So does Aegon I, tbh, when while it left the Targs the ability to adapt to their necessities concerning succession, his and his sons leaving it open to duking-it-out...then Aegon named heir over Rhaena...made way for the first stone against women in their house....those most necessarily it seems (after the Dance).

Anyway, they were pretty solid until Rhaenyra's kids started falling like dominoes and were caught in a deceit.

D)

I remember an ask I got once about Daemon showing Rhaenyra explicit imagery in S1E4, where anon said that him doing so proves he is a groomer in the show, where Rhaenyra is 19 instead of 14-15. And adult but just barely AND a lot of people hold that grooming--nonsexual, too--can happen to people to people as old as 34. Personally, I think that the latter is more general manipulation more than "grooming", but I digress and it doesn't really work for 18-20 year olds and up, who again, are practically teenagers.

But I brought up my misgivings about Daemon wanting to abuse children/children adjacent for its own sake already, and it's less evident in the show where the show makes it a point that he wanted Rhaenyra at most stages of her life (when again, she wouldn't be a child-child to them, scowl at GRRM, not me):

the beach scene in S1E7 with adult Rhaenyra, we all saw them heave for each other

we hear/see nothing of his messing with too-young girls after said marriage...the narrative implies he was likely imagining it as some "perfect" Valyrian bride...who happens to be around the same age as state as his niece (still problematic for all the implications of Rhaenyra's significance to him----both in the nature of sex work affecting women/girls AND we really didn't need to hear of that without proving how old those girls usually were to be so used like this as proxies…this is where I personally would have rolled my sorry self out) -> -> -> the probable immediate recall of Jorah doing similar with Dany OR simply Mysaria's observation of this unconscious/repressed desire/teasing him and show!Daemon never having actually done these things -> -> -> of course this could be due to any number of reasons, like his frustrations with Viserys manifesting in looking for a companion in the closest person possible more than that sort of desire

Mysaria: What troubles you, my Prince? I could bring in another. Perhaps a maiden. I have several. I could even arrange one with silver hair. [pause]

This included language of "could" and "perhaps" and "even" (as if this were a thing that she knows it's out of the ordinary) plus her solicitousness to meet his silence and disappeared enthusiasm indicates that show!Daemon was not in the habit of messing w/very young sex workers as bk!Daemon is rumored and told (A Question of Succession):

"and was said to have an especial fondness for deflowering maidens"

Language is important these types of documents. We're given an entire description of his philandering and the contrast of "he sampled" (definite, final, statement-to-not-be-doubted), but there is room with "was said" for Daemon to not have gone around this particular act of seeking out virgin girls. Like how one would say now "I heard such and such also went pulling people's pants down after Marcus saw him go into a strip club" or "people say that Marsha went to Payless for her prom shoes".

Active ("he sampled") vs passive voice ("he[...]was said") can be pretty important to indicate what def happened vs what people believed and could have happened but was never proven. But what do I know, I'm just a probably too-biased Daemyra shipper (this genuinely was not to be snarky, really, you can take or leave my points).

END

For me, it's more when Rhaenyra & Daemon both get older that they shine and I "approve" or really most enjoy Rouges Delight (bk ship name some have taken to call Daemyra) whatever you want to name and distinguish the couple. (I prefer their younger interations [pre E6, S1] in the show not bc Emma is a bad actor--they re not, they're just underutilized and Rhaenyra is written so...terribly that I can never get as into it...I liked Daemyra when they reconciled in S2, for example, but I hated how they got there and not bc of "the ship is sinking" but bec it genuinely was not written well and depended on diminishing both characters). I'm not, however, out here trying to say that anyone else should love this ship, this couple, this story just as much as I don't really mind people not getting into GRRM's writing.

The 111 A.C. issue, there is a certain odd quality it of being obviously out of line and manipulative...while evidence of being a convergence of long-held tension, a beginning towards an inevitable outcome years down the line. SYMMETRY and good writing. I suspect that part of the appeal for some is that push-pull of the delight of "matching freaks and the moral conflict of "but....he's her uncle and he's 2x her age and/or they probably did things when she was way too young", but that's a whole other thing. It keeps people engaged and is perfectly symptomatic of that quality of medievalesque/historical fiction, sure, but bc humans love to play with taboos in fiction...to a certain point. (Personally, again, it is that later timeline that "saved" Daemon for me, as flawed as that may be.) They can indulge in the curiosity of the play of "what ifs" GRRM writes and the subsequent quandaries safely in fiction without getting openly judged & misunderstood for wanting such stories. Sometimes we "play" too close to the sun, though, I admit.

So unless someone's gone off the deep end trying to say that they wouldn't be bothered by a 15 yr old and her 2x older uncle smooching in real life, or try to deny that Daemon was performing, it really doesn't discomfit me that much in the grander scheme of things to me.

Again, I can't blame HotD for uping Rhaenyra's age AND people for just not jiving or hating the ship just as there are those who cannot ever get into ASoIaF for the incessant (to them, too often unpunished by the narrative) incest even outside of the Targs alone. And I get how this is just not going to be enough or that he later is her strongest supporters is enough for a lot of people. But I do want the air cleared a bit and explain the position from where I'm standing. Could change, but I dunno about that. Perhaps this all too biased a breakdown. I warned ya.

This is all in regards to shipping, of course. 😉 Anyway, watch out, there might be more freaks about you in your everyday life like Daemyra shippers, anon!

[beanghostprincess]

I would like to know your thoughts on Boa x Luffy.

Because I have a few problems with this ship. (actually it´s mostly one, the others are more reasons why I don´t ship them)

First the age gap: Can´t say anything to it since I like Marco x Ace (I don´t won´t to think of that age different! )

A problem I have is that Boa seems to idolize Luffy and alredy wants to merry a 17Y old Luffy. And first I was like thats a bit creepy but then I stopped a moment to think. When I look of her behavior and her thoughts, she actually reminds me more of a little girl with her first crush. (lasteres is definitive true) While she wasn´t as lucky to grew up as isolated as most of the amazons (who didn´t even know what a man looks like) and has probably good reasons to hate men, she soesn´t know much about relationships.

I think, and I can´t believe I´m saying this, that Luffy is in this more mature than her in this. He clearly says that he won´t marry her. (and thank you Oda to not play it for laugh and make him not understand what she means) I´m pretty sure Luffy knows her feelings for him, but ignores it (doesn´t think about it).

What I really don´t like about this ship is actually not the ship itself (even if I don´t ship them), it´s some "shiper" when you can call them that. It´s when someon just ships them because Luffy NEEDS a love intrest (not true) or because with someone Luffy has to have children in the future (also not true!).

I hate that! Boa (and Luffy) deserve better than that. She is a strong independent women that is more than her crush on Luffy.

I could write so many reasons why I love Boa, but I wrote already so much (more than I wanted) and my cat is bothering me because she wants attention. ( how dare I not give her the attention she deservs? Love her.)

I usually have no issues with ships because if I don't like them I just ignore them, so I basically don't care about this ship? Like people be people. You do you. Hakuna Matata. I personally don't like it because it's not my type of thing and because the only reason Boa likes Luffy is because she feels safe around him the way she feels safe around Rayleigh. Men have always seen her (and still do) as an object, and she has managed to use her beauty against them and their stupidity and I love it. I love her. I find Boa and Luffy's dynamic really endearing because it's not only that she has a ""crush"" on him, but she trusts him and genuinely feels comfortable in his presence to the point of saying "well, if this goes wrong I'll just go to Luffy" (which is really fucked up actually because she should be more independent and relying on romantically/sexually is only a trauma response, but yeah, at least she has two men in her life she can trust). I think she doesn't love Luffy or have a crush on him at all. She's just captivated by him and how safe he makes her feel because he's one of the only two men who have never seen her as an object. So, from that POV I really like the dynamic, but not romantically/sexually at all. I honestly think she's a lesbian going through the biggest fucking case of comphet I've ever seen, but then again, no opinion on the ship other than I don't like it but people can do whatever they want as long as they don't bother me.

However, I must say I do agree with you on the fact that most Boa/Luffy shippers (dudebros, mostly) like the pairing because they think Luffy as a main character needs a female love interest, and since she's been pretty much the only girl who has explicitly displayed romantic feelings for Luffy, they just take it as canon without thinking about their relationship or characters in the slightest. These people just keep pushing a normatively straight and allo agenda that I can't fucking stand. But, well, it's not like I interact with them so whatever.

Most people see this ship as problematic for the age difference and I find that pretty much stupid because usually the main problem with age difference is the level of maturity and power imbalance, but in this case, Boa is just down bad for him and she's a bit annoying at times (honestly, I keep saying it's just her coping mechanism often played as a joke for her character). And Luffy knows that she is because he has refused to get married to her multiple times. People act like Luffy is this naive kid who doesn't know what love/sex is, but the guy is just... Not interested. He doesn't seem bothered by her either? If Luffy genuinely disliked Boa for this he would've said so. He is a very direct and honest character. He likes Boa. He's friends with her. He'll help her if needed and he cares about her. However, he just doesn't like her romantically and... That's pretty much it? It's not that deep from Luffy's POV, honestly.

And when people call Boa a predator (I've seen that) I just feel uh... Conflicted with their opinion. Because a predator is somebody who has these patterns and keeps wanting/liking kids/really young people and keeps insisting whether or not they want it and they're, well, pervs, basically. Boa's feelings for Luffy are, like you said, pretty much shown as a high school innocent crush. The way she acts around him is to rely on him rather than take advantage of him, because, I repeat, all men in her life have used her and now that she has a male friend who doesn't see her as an object, she copes with having a crush on him. Which is really sad and it has happened to me and to a lot of lesbians with bad past experiences and... Seeing people call her out like this as if she were some big evil predator makes me feel really uneasy and worried about the reading skills of this fandom. Have you considered that... Even if there's an age gap... Some people don't have bad intentions and adults can also be traumatized? Like, I'm not saying this would be okay in real life, because it wouldn't (even if her behavior is understandable from a psychological POV), but in fiction? I think Boa is a pretty complex and well-written character and she has her reasons behind this comedic gag, even if it doesn't seem like it. Oda likes to exaggerate these things, with Sanji, for example. Y'all would literally hate Sanji in real life for how he treats women most of the time and we all acknowledge it's a comedic gag that got out of hand.

I'm not sure if I'm wording this right, but basically: Boa doesn't like Luffy romantically/sexually and just mistakes feeling safe with those types of attraction. I don't like the ship for that reason, and most shippers only ship them without having any understanding of their characters at all and because they just want a main straight pairing. It can be seen as problematic for the age gap and it's a running gag that can make people uncomfortable, yes, and I understand. But that does not make Boa a pedo/predator and y'all keep using those words very very freely to the point of them losing their true meaning.

Now this ended up being kind of an essay on them rather than my opinion so, TL;DR: I don't like the ship but they're cute friends.

[gellavonhamster]

💖, 🧡, 🖤, 🤍, 💕 for asoiaf ;))

OH NO I'll try my best, but I've honestly forgotten at least half of what happens in these books

💖: What is your biggest unpopular opinion about the series?

This is more of an outsider vs. fandom thing and not an intra-fandom thing, but I just wanna say (reiterate even) that I think most of the "this is grimdark bleak male power fantasy" kind of criticism of ASOIAF - if it even may be called "criticism" - comes from people who either have only watched the show or are not familiar with this series firsthand at all and are just parroting what others say to make sure everyone knows they condemn ~problematic media~. These books have a lot of nuance, most of the POV characters are marginalized or oppressed in one way or another, be it through disability, gender, social status, or a combination thereof, and it's very clear that we are supposed to sympathize with them and their values even if in one of another part of the story their values are treated as worthless.

As to opinions unpopular within the fandom, I've always enjoyed the parts about the Night Watch and the wildlings, both in the books and in those seasons of the TV show that I've watched. I have an impression that everyone in the fandom thinks them boring, but I've always found this deep north one of the most fascinating parts of Westeros.

🧡: What is a popular (serious) theory you disagree with?

I don't know, most theories I've seen make me go "Oooh... yeah that seems legit... people are so smart" (this can apply to theories that contradict each other because I don't really have any on my own). I can think of an unpopular theory or two that I disagree with; for example, I don't think that the valonqar prophesized to kill Cersei is some distant relative minor character - I believe it's going to be either Jaime or Tyrion, as simple as that, but not a popular one.

🖤: Which character is not as morally good as everyone else seems to think?

...do people actually think there are any morally good characters in ASOIAF at all? Sometimes I see posts accusing even children of being evil. Actually, let me use this question this way: I don't think Arya has any higher ground over Sansa, I think they're just different, and the narrative itself doesn't support the idea that Arya somehow is a better person because she's a warrior and/or less feminine.

🤍: Which character is not as morally bad as everyone else seems to think?

Genuinely don't have an answer for this one. I'm not up to date with the ASOIAF fandom trends, but my impression is that most of characters are inherently seen as either just as morally grey and ruthless if/when necessary (or just ruthless, period) as they are, or even worse (see the reply above about taking children's rivalries too seriously).

💕: What is an unpopular ship that you like?

Again, I'm not familiar enough with the current ASOIAF fandom trends to know what is popular and what is not... Sigorn/Alys? They're in the books for like 5 seconds, but I'd really love to see how that marriage is going to turn out.

[meraki-yao]

omg i agree with everything you said. i think people obviously should be mindful of what they say..i think personally there's a distinction bw tweeting/posting about ships and commenting under their posts but i do have to point out the double standards and hypocrisy especially in western media. like during purple hearts, nick and sofia really played with the shipping part of pr and all the PH fans ate it up it was sooooo obvious....it went far as to people thinking they were dating or had hookups....and it always happens when its a boy and a girl which pisses me off genuinely.... like noone says anything to those people and infact the actors/crew and etc encourage those fans...and i'll be honest, with nick and sofia at that time during PH promo it was SO OBVIOUS that that was pr. and as you said the pr period for rwrb has ended but the genuinity i see b/w nick and tzp is not at all because of pr. their choice to be discreet and personal to each other imo is one of the biggest proof of their bond....i still think everyone should be cautious but it does piss me off how shipping is so wildly allowed when its a boy and a girl..for example nick and sofia or joey and taylor....and omg dont even get me started on yesterday...accounts like pop crave tweeting about nick giving camila his jacket, which is just a friendly and gentlemanly move and camila is his friend...but ppl already started like shipping them a bit...like it just pisses me off how acceptable it is to ship a boy and a girl as opposed to two men or two women....because then we all have to be so hush hush about it i hate it so much

I've mentioned my opinion on Taylor and Nick's relationship several times before so I'm not gonna repeat it here. But you brought up a really good point of the biases when it comes to the media starting shipping rumours between a girl and a guy compared to two of the same gender. I absolutely agree, and I'm very uncomfortable. I didn't see, but I heard of other people mentioning the Nick/Camila thing and I got really mad about it: Nick and Camila have been really good friends for a long time, ever since they did Cinderella. It's very normal for friends to help each other by lending clothes, especially if you look at what Camila was wearing and consider that Nick's still wearing a long sleeve shirt underneath his blazer.

Shipping rumours/narratives by the media tend to be problematic by nature, so like this shouldn't really be encouraged in the first place, but I think we can attribute this bias to latent homophobia (and maybe even sexism?)

But yes I agree and like what you mentioned about Taylor and Nick keeping their bond personal <3

[misatodeservedbetter]

@otaku-tyriq I elaborated a little bit ago with a reblog, but!! I don’t think it was really a widely experienced thing? Like I said, a few years ago, the activity in the Trigun fandom, especially on tumblr, was pretty nonexistent. But there seemed to be this friend group that would often draw fanart, and since it was good, and they were really the only people producing anything for the fandom, their stuff circulated easily. The thing was though, were they were /heavy/ Vashwood anti’s. Which, everyone is entitled to disliking any ship, that’s perfectly fine, but their reason for disliking it was just so wild to me?? They insisted that it was problematic because

1)((Possible spoiler I guess?)) Vash is a hundreds of years old alien, so it would be weird to ship him with any of the humans I guess

2) In the manga, Wolfwood was 16 when he met Vash originally. They were only around each other for a little before they eventually parted and they met up again by chance and were consistently together once Wolfwood was 18. So I guess their logic was that he would have groomed Wolfwood even though that wouldn’t have been possible and it just doesn’t make sense? You couldn’t even say you shipped anime only Vashwood, because there, Wolfwood was always an adult and is probably around his 20s. To them, it was still just as bad

There may have been other reasons, but those were the two biggest ones. And basically, they would go on rants about how it was a bad ship and how they didn’t understand how it was the most popular ship in the fandom. And all of their lil fans would agree, and they wouldn’t listen to anyone who tried to argue and explain why their reasoning was silly. There was a lot of nonsense around them and at first it was kind of funny but then it honestly got annoying, and it was frustrating to see their art circulate so often. However it was funny when one of them reblogged from me a few times.

They all just randomly disappeared one day though, but someone commented on this post and said they probably all ran off to Twitter, which I’m sure is true. I just hope that now that Trigun is big again, they don’t start their campaign again. But!! I implore you to read the manga and watch the og anime if you haven’t started already! I think it gives better insight into all characters of course, but especially the relationship between Vash and Wolfwood. That way you can better make your own decision on your feelings between them!

Okay now that Trigun is big again, I have to ask, did anyone else experience that weird little cult of Vashwood antis on here like 2 or 3 years ago or was that just me

[amporella]

Hey! I don’t remember seeing anything problematic in the kyman zines. I didn’t read the fics tho, was it in there or is it possible I missed something?

There's a chance that you downloaded the zine after the piece was removed, and didn't see it because of that! Here's a recap of the Kyman Zine situation, though (warning that it's kind of long):

The Kyman Zine was a zine primarily produced on Twitter by @/shokikita, @/shouriii (who you may know better as @/mirrorshards on Tumblr) and @/DrAbesacraben. The Kyman Zine was entrenched in a lot of drama since the beginning, mainly because a user suspected to be from the Kyman Zine (and confirmed to be from the Ships Ahoy discord server, which remains unaddressed by the mods) was harassing anyone who shipped style (as well as slandering the style zine organizers), but that somehow was not the biggest issue the Kyman Zine caused for themselves.

The biggest issue was that the Kyman Zine had actual, literal NAZI PROPAGANDA in it. Once again, I'm attaching the images on Imgur because needless to say, they can be triggering. Here's the link to an Imgur album with the image posted in the Kyman Zine, as well as a few examples of Nazi propaganda that DIRECTLY parallel what was put in the zine. I literally would not be surprised if the artist used actual nazi propaganda as a reference for their piece.

The tweet by the artist initially posting the image (along with two others they had drawn for the zine) has been deleted, but here's a screengrab I have about what the tweet originally titled the piece as; "Manipulation". Not a good look.

The fact that the artist drew something like this isn't inherently surprising to me; a subsection of the kyman fandom has always had its issues with antisemitism. But the fact that it managed to pass THREE ORGANIZERS looking at it and accepting it into the zine is legitimately baffling to me. There is no reasonable excuse for it to pass three sets of eyes, and for all three to say 'all clear!'

And even beyond that, one of the organizers ADMITTED that she didn't even know the Jewish puppetmaster antisemitic trope was a thing. How can you possibly take on the job of doing a zine for a ship where antisemitism is a CORE part of the dynamic, and fail so badly at educating yourself beforehand? How can you expect to be able to effectively monitor those submitted works when you don't even know what you're supposed to be looking for? (I'm censoring the username of a person who called them out on it here for privacy; that's why their url is whited out)

The zine team did end up apologizing for allowing the piece into the zine, and they removed the piece from the zine before reuploading it to itch.io. But seriously, how did this even happen in the first place. HOW DO YOU HAVE A RULE FORBIDDING WW2 IMAGERY (and HOW WOULD YOU NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT NEEDING THAT RULE) AND THEN FAIL TO UPHOLD IT? HOW IS THAT SO HARD?

The organizers also 'thanked' the people who reached out about this problem, which would probably sound more sincere if one of the organizers (yup, the one I already mentioned up above) didn't ARGUE with a person who pointed it out because they weren't respecting the opinion that it wasn't nazi propaganda. (Once again, the user is whited out, and the user whose posts you can't see is one of the zine organizers who blocked me </3)

Needless to say, it isn't an opinion that the above image had similarities to nazi propaganda; it's a fact. The organizers couldn't even accept that they had fucked up without acting like the victims.

And now these THREE SAME PEOPLE are the ones who are running the Kyle zine - a zine specifically about a Jewish character. These three same people who are so oblivious to antisemitic history that they couldn't even recognize the Jewish puppetmaster trope for what it is, and those three same people who exposed that wildly antisemitic fanart to literally thousands of people who downloaded it.

Furthermore, the Kyle zine is titled 'Jewish, Jersey, and Ginger'; literally a quote by Cartman. Generally, I would disapprove of having a zine that was supposed to be non-shippy be run by three notorious shippers (especially who had just run a zine about shipping), but I disapprove of it even MORE heavily when those same organizers have a history of being so negligent that Nazi propaganda ends up in their zine.

I can only assume the Kyle Zine is going to be an absolute disaster. The organizers do not seem capable of monitoring the content that ends up in the zine effectively, and honestly I think it would be a miracle if the zine somehow was produced without anything glaringly antisemitic in it. If the Kyman Zine people truly felt remorseful about their mistakes, they would have dropped the Kyle Zine and took some time to educate themselves on what they had done wrong; instead, they went full steam ahead and decided to blame everyone else.

It was really terrible. The Kyle Zine is free as far as I'm aware, but I still can't recommend downloading it based solely on principle. Don't give the organizers your views. What they did is seriously fucked and if a Kyle Zine was to be produced (or even another Kyman Zine), it would need MUCH more careful monitoring than those organizers could provide.

[demadogs]

There’s this one blog on here that kinda weirds me out because they are so hyper deadest on shipping Foah together. Like whenever they write normal Byler posts, it’s so beautiful! But then, everything else idk. And I know a lot of us joke about Noah wanting to kiss Finn or vice versa but this blog gives off weird vibes because they seem to genuinely want Finn and Noah to date in real life. They also seem to make a lot of assumptions about their feelings for each other just because of their chemistry. And I don’t know how serious this blog is about it but it gives me Larry shipper vibes. Or like the Fack conspiracy all over again, which hurt Finn and Jack’s friendship at the time

oh my god im glad you brought this up i know exactly who youre talking about. every time i make a post telling people not to ship real people it was bc of that blog in particular. i have them blocked so im not afraid to talk about them. we’ve made jokes and memes about noah being the biggest byler shipper and wanting to kiss finn for byler and theyre mostly pretty harmless but this blog is just something else.

youre right, they make so many assumptions. it pisses me off and it does completely give me larry vibes. they talk as if they know finn and noah personally and theyre friends with them and have seen them interact. or like theyre an out couple like natalia and charlie. they usually respond to anons who call them out on it with something like “i dont ship foah, i just observe their interactions and anyone can see that they are crushing on each other”. that bothers me so much. like observe what the 5 minute press interviews?? you dont fucking know them. save your analyses for things that have been intentionally written and mapped out for FICTIONAL media, not two kid actors just being themselves. and then they’ll try to call the anons homophobic by being like “whys it such a big deal for noah to have a little crush on him??”, still fully talking as if its public knowledge and we’re the bad guy like oh my god how are you not understanding the issue here.

ive also noticed that they ignore anybody who tells them that finn has a gf. they just wont answer the anon (i know bc i have sent one) or ignore any replies about it. they live in this weird bubble where they choose to believe these real people are dating. and like ok i cant stop you from thinking theyd be cute together, theres nothing wrong with that, what makes it problematic is trying to read into their interactions and expressions and publicly suspect their relationship and sexualities on the internet. and again, they always try to be like “theres no harm in it im not directly @ ing finn or noah” but this is the internet. anybody can screenshot anything and put it anywhere. there is always a chance that either of them could see their posts and it could be so bad if they did. i dont think theyve ever once considered what it could be like to be finn or noah and see this.

like yes, there is a chance they’d just laugh about how ridiculous it is and move on but what if one of them actually was questioning their sexuality and then they saw some random person on the internet reading into it like this??? that would be so fucking hard. jack came out as bi after people were shipping him and finn so much. i cant imagine how anxiety provoking it would be to see what people were saying about him and finn while being in the closet. it gives ME anxiety on their behalf!! i hope so bad theyre blissfully unaware of this.

one anon told them that theyre using foah as a coping mechanism after byler didnt work out how they wanted in s4 and theyre so right. before vol 2 came out i saw maybe two posts from them in the byler tag about it that kinda weirded me out but after volume two they just turned into a foah blog instead of byler. they literally had byler in their url before and then they changed it to foah for fucks sake. and they still have the nerve to claim they dont ship them and what theyre doing is completely fine and just “observation”.

also i was looking at their blog once and they mentioned that they were 31 years old…. look it is not weird to ship byler at any age. i have personally as a 22 year old been told that its weird for me to ship byler and analyze these fictional characters and i completely disagree with that. theres nothing weird about shipping characters at any age even if the characters are kids (as long as youre not nasty about it) but real people??? god i would have been SO relieved if this person was like 15. i would not have gone as hard on them as i am right now if they were a kid because i would assume they would grow and eventually realize that its weird and invasive. i mean i remember reading stupid fanfics about youtubers when i was 14 but i grew and matured and realized how insane that is and no longer had any interest in reading into real peoples love lives. but i cannot excuse any adult shipping them like this.

god this ended up being so long i just had a lot to say. moral of the story: if actors have great chemistry on screen together it just means theyre good at their job, it doesnt mean theyre dating or crushing on each other in real life.

[sofoulandfairaday]

The ultimate How I Met Your Mother Finale rant

I know this has been done before, and I know I'm several years late to the party, but I don't care, so IN THIS ESSAY I WILL tell you about why this finale takes the spot as the second-worst finale in TV show history (because Game of Thrones is still, to this day, unbeatable, and it will probably stay like that forever). 

But first, a little context: I've just finished binge-watching HIMYM. This binge has been going on for three days straight (my final exam of the semester is in a week and I should be studying, so the fact that the last few days were a partial waste of time makes me so mad). Second thing: I already knew how it would end, and yes, kids, it does ruin the show for you. It ruins the show so much it makes your blood boil when you rewatch certain scenes, but I will get to that. 

You might want to make yourself a drink because this is a complete list of all the reasons why HIMYM's finale sucks - I'm warning you, it's gonna be looong.

It completely invalidates the entirety of season 9

This is one of the complaints people most often have with this series, and I have to agree. It would have been so much better if the last two episodes never existed, and they just showed Barney and Robin dancing at the reception after walking out of the chapel, Ted noticing Tracy and then the platform scene. "And that, kids, is the story of how I met your mother". Cut scene. Honestly, I don't get the hate people give to season 9, barring the last 2/3 episodes, especially since season 8 was so much worse (except for a few honourable mentions, like The Robin). S8 was slower, less funny, and less deep, and while the authors took a risk by making s9 happen in the span of a weekend it paid off: they took their time introducing the character of the Mother to the gang and fleshing her out. They make sure to highlight all the little ways in which Ted and Tracy are perfect for each other, and even tie up loose ends, like with the Slapsgiving episode, that was a filler but it wasn't boring to watch (although it may be problematic for different reasons, I'm not Chinese, so I can't say for sure if it's cultural appropriation or just the authors making fun of a particular movie genre). 

Some episodes were arguably great: "Daisy" was amazing, and that whole fight between Marshall and Lily was so realistic and well thought out, "Sunrise" was extremely important for Ted's character development, same goes for Tracy and "How Your Mother Met Me", "Bedtime stories" was impressive, "Rally" was incredibly funny and proved once again what a beautiful character Barney Stinson is, so much so that even Robin never has doubts that he (the guy with the biggest commitment issues on the planet) will bail on her before the wedding, and says to Ted that "he always comes back". Daphne's character is super funny and the right amount of annoying, the shenanigans of the gang are well thought out and all of the characters (not just Barney) complete their arc in this season. The last two/three episodes butcher that.

Marshall and Lily

Marshall and Lily, arguably the world's most solid couple, are the only thing this God-awful finale gets right, especially Marshall, who is my second-favourite character, that finally gets everything he deserves. But what about Lily? They never mention her career after Italy, and I refuse to believe she goes back to being a kindergarten teacher as if her year in Rome meant nothing. I also refuse to think she becomes nothing but a political wife, the equivalent of Zoey, but without saving the world. We know she has three kids, but her postpartum depression is never really talked about much and they definitely had the screentime to delve into it. 

Barney

 Where do I even begin? Barney Stinson is, without a doubt, the best character in this series, the glue of the whole gang. I think the message they were trying to give is that, since his trauma stemmed from the absence of a father figure in his life, he could only truly heal by becoming a father as well. People also say that n°31 had to stay just a number, because who could match up with Barney Stinson? First of all, I call BULSHIT on that last point, because Robin wasn't the only girl Barney could have ended up marrying. I used to think that too, but it's just not true: that is the equivalent of saying that Barney was incapable to truly love a woman and commit to her, even after all the development he got, and that he only got one shot at love in life, and that's it. This goes against the point the showrunners try to make by having Ted and Robin end up together AND by having Tracy get with Ted in the first place: "it's never too late, you always have another chance at love, etc." And, let's face it, Barney and Robin are legendary, but Barney and Nora (hell, even Barney and Quinn!) were pretty good together too. 

Second of all, if they wanted to give Barney a kid, they could have easily done that, before Barney married Robin. Barney's "redemption" starts when he gets with Robin the first time, hell maybe even when we meet James for the first time: Nora, Quinn, finding out who his father is, the episode dedicated to the lies his mum told him/finding James' father, him getting to know his own dad, etc... those are all steps along the way. The s9 episode where Barney accepts the relationship between Loretta and the reverend proves how far he's come. So why not give him a daughter BEFORE he proposes to Robin? Have him cheat on Nora/Quinn with n°31, giving him a relapse, and having him get closer to Robin while struggling to be a dad to Ellie. That would have been great. 

Or, you know, don't give him children. What's the point of burning the Playbook if you're going to have him write the second edition? What's the point of having him do a complete 180 in the last few scenes and acting like having a kid is the only thing that makes him change? What's the point of doing that when the show spends entire episodes berating Marshall and Lily for "changing too much" when they have a kid?

Also, Barney is the "challenge accepted" guy. He loves his wife so much, he spent years wanting her, and then he gives up because there is no WiFi in his hotel. How does that make any sense at all? This is Barney Stinson, the "I will fly out to San Francisco and buy Lily a plane ticket", the "I will steal every girl from my best friend just to save him for Lily", the guy that wrote the Playbook (it takes effort to pull those plays off), the guy that planned for weeks his proposal, the guy that waited years to get back at the man who stole his first girlfriend, the guy that makes every night legendary... are you telling me that that guy becomes the equivalent of a bored housewife instead of living his best life while travelling the world? Come on. They don't even try to make it believable.

Ted

While watching seasons 7 and 8, I felt that Ted was becoming the worst character on the show: he was boring, depressed, basically had no good storylines, the whole thing with Victoria was pointless and inconclusive (and the whole "stop being in love with Robin" was completely out of character for her), but whatever, we could have accepted that because it passed the message that two people could be good together, without being soulmates - which, by the way, renders the TedxRobin ship pointless, because they were right for each other, but Ted and Tracy were soulmates. Him being hung up on Robin in the latter seasons is almost pathetic, and the thing he does with the locket is insane, not romantic - BUT I will say this: it can be seen in two ways, depending on who's watching. I personally like the two as friends, so I see the whole thing as a "Dahmer" situation, but I get the people who see it as a "Dobler" one and see what he did as a grand romantic gesture. 

The problem, though, is that the whole TedxRobin ship gets pretty old, pretty fast: it's an annoying on-and-off thing, that should have ended with the locket. Because, yes, Ted was in a dark moment, yes, he was probably depressed, yes, he thought Robin was his only shot at happiness, but he changes during season nine! He spends entire episodes letting go of Robin, including the one where she transforms into a balloon and flies away. Ted is the good guy, ultimately. He is the guy that is genuinely happy for his best friends. In one of the deleted scenes from the finale, he meets Robin years later and says that he's so happy with Tracy he never thought about Robin in that way anymore. All of that gets thrown in the trash. Why do that? To use a Harry Potter metaphor, Ted is Severus Snape, while Barney is James Potter: the former loved the girl of his dreams with all his heart, even to the point of creepiness, but they weren't meant to be together. 

Robin

This, along with the next point, is the worst of all: Robin is the worst character of the entire finale. Her relationship with Ted in season 2 is wonderful, and I say that as a full-on Barney/Robin shipper. There was never a problem in their relationship, apparently, but they then break up because they have an "expiration date" and ultimately want different things in life. Except that Ted is not her soulmate. The only times when Robin wants Ted are the times where (1) she can't have him because he's either trying to move on or (2) the times where it's convenient, for example when they become roommates again and they solve their disputes again. Around that time, we see perfectly that Ted had moved on and that the person getting hurt was Barney. It's one thing to see Ted and Robin in the finale as two people picking up where they had left off after they dated. But this is not the case. 

In season 7, we have the exchange that should have put an end to any and all TedxRobin drama, and that completely invalidates whatever the writers wrote after that about the two of them: Ted declares his love - "I think you know how you feel about me now. I don't think time's gonna change that. Just tell me: do you love me?" To which she answers "No". And Ted also says later to Marshall, that he's "happy because he can finally move on". 

What a load of crap. 

Getting over someone is hard, believe me, I would know. And, oftentimes, it doesn't happen until we find someone else to love (and from the moment he meets Tracy, there is no one else for Ted). But by giving Ted feelings for Robin after this moment, it takes away from the beauty of it- because it's one of the most heartbreaking feelings in the world when you declare your love to someone and they don't love you back. Ted and Robin were both honest at that moment, and it was the last genuinely good exchange between them. After that, during season 8 they try to show us Ted trying to get over her (and failing) and in season 9 Ted getting over her completely. This is also weirdly paced because at the beginning of s8 both are in happy relationships with other people and there's no jealousy (which is good, because at least they weren't toxic) and they seem just friends (when Robin leaves Nick to go see him in the middle of the night, she implies that she would do it for any of her friends), but after Ted breaks up with Veronica because of Robin everything is weirdly coated in this sort of tension between the two: first Ted loves her, but she doesn't, so when he helps her by taking her to Barney's proposal ("which means my best bro in the world has given me his blessing"). 

And, by the way, every time they try to paint Ted as the guy that comes through for Robin after this moment, they dumb down Barney's character. And still fail to make Ted a better guy than him (see: the carousel in Central Park). 

Yes, Robin and Ted have some chemistry, but it is nothing compared to what Robin and Barney have. Every time Robin is jealous of Barney, it doesn't seem like a stupid whim, just because some other child is playing with her toys (except, perhaps, during The Robin). Robin and Barney's relationship would need a whole other post, and the next time I rewatch the series I will write down all the things that make them perfect for each other, but, to me, the biggest difference between the two relationships is this: in season 6, when she's not dating either one of them, Ted accuses Robin of never making him feel needed while they were together, whereas Barney praises her for it. Those are elective affinities: that's what Barney and Robin have, and what Tracy and Ted have. 

Barney and Robin have more or less the same arc: they both get over their fear of commitment and they do that with each other. Time and time again, we are told that if they're ever going to settle down, it would only be with the other. The first time they break up is honestly so stupid, and even when they are broken up, they are the best of friends, which also makes Robin's behaviour in the finale look so stupid. The way the two of them fit together is unparalleled, both in a romantic and a platonic way. 

Think about it: Robin makes Barney a better man, while she makes Ted a worse one. 

Also, the whole point that there are different seasons in life for everything gets thrown out the window: apparently, Ted and Robin (that were a couple that ultimately worked in their young twenties) are the same people in their forties.

But that's not even the worst part. The worst part is that the two final episodes butcher Robin's arc as well: episode 23 starts with Lily saying "I want this girl to be in our lives" and we know Robin never made other friends outside of the gang, because she didn't need to, and now she walks away from everything because of fucking Ted?? This is saying "hey, Robin was only in the group for Ted, who brought her in, and now she leaves because he's not her puppy anymore". Robin was the one that was eternally indecisive between Ted and Barney and you're telling me that three years and many many life experiences later, she's still not sure? 

The point of her story is learning how to get over her fear of commitment, learning how to be there for her friends (there's an entire episode dedicated to that, and it's the one where Lily's pregnant and we meet Robin's ex-best friend in Canada), and how to balance her job and her life. Also, the way her character is treated is un-feminist and un-progressive: she becomes Ted's consolation prize. She is passive throughout s9. She cannot, ultimately, win the modern-day struggle most women have and balance out career and love life, so her true life, her "happy chapter" begins after she has already accomplished everything she wanted to and she's free for Ted. She doesn't even go back to him, she just the prize the main character wanted for all his life and only got in the end because his wife died (ONE SCENE, people, ONE SCENE!). Also, this makes Tracy the "broodmare" that gives him the kids he wanted, and his "happy family" experience before he goes to be with his one true love. 

The mother

This. This makes me so mad. One whole season spent on building up Tracy's character, just for it to go to waste. It would have been so easy to screw her up, but she is hands down the best thing about s9. She's the perfect woman for Ted and the episode shot through her perspective is the sweetest. By the end, I liked her more than Robin and Lily. She was the perfect addition to their group, she fit together with them in a perfect way, and they show us the biggest moment of her and Ted's life... for what? To have her die in a few sentences? And I don't care if they shot a funeral scene, I don't care if the finale was supposed to be 40 minutes long, because, in the end, it wasn't. The scene where Ted meets her is the second most beautiful one (after Barney's proposal to Robin) and the climax of the whole show, but they ruin her... and for what? The chemistry Ted has with her, he has with no one. The joy she brings him, the way she understands him, is unlike any other. I am sure that one of the reasons they killed her off was the shock value and I hate it. 

I cannot stress this enough: Tracy makes Ted a better person. When he's with Robin, Ted is "the nice guy" in the most selfish and narcissistic version of the trope. When he's with Tracy, love comes easy to Ted. Also, the scenes between the two of them are arguably the best Ted scenes of the show.

The kids' reactions (ugh)

It's not really what they say- it's the way they say it. The end of HIMYM was not supposed to be funny, even though the show is a sitcom. It was supposed to be bittersweet and beautiful, because it's the end of an era, and the writers must have known that. So, Ted finishes telling his story, reveals to the audience that their now-beloved Tracy is dead, and the reaction is: "No, ahah, you totally have the hots for Aunt Robin" (their words, not mine). Like, what the actual fuck? I cringed when Penny said that. It's tasteless and not fun at all. Even if it has been six years... It's still your fucking mum, show a little bit of sadness at the thought of her. 

The reason the show ended this way

What makes me especially mad is that I know for a fact that the reason they went with this ending is that it was the original one, always intended for the show, from season 2 onwards. And, if you watch it right after s2, it makes sense. But if you consider the eight years that passed and the massive character development, then no, it's not the best possible one. So many things hadn't been decided yet back in s2, especially about Barney, Ted, and Robin, and I hate that they didn't dare to scrap their work. This ending probably had sentimental meaning to the writers, but authors have to do what's best for their characters, not themselves. It's like with GoT, in a way: I think that the authors were all too aware of the impact of HIMYM and didn't believe that their finale would live up to the expectations... which compelled them to make the worst decision possible?? Every single character is OOC during the episode. Oh, and Marshall and Lily moving in the last episode is a ripoff from Friends (or maybe a tribute? Idk). Anyway, I believe that the authors were too attached to their sentimental version of "what should have been" and didn't give the characters the endings they truly deserved.

"Life works this way" // "Life only moves forward"

Some people say that the show is realistic because that's how life works. But I call super-BS on that. That might be true, and yes, people do get sick and die (Max, Marshall's dad...) and life does go on. But then, you don't frame it the way they did. It's just bad storytelling if you do it like that. And the problem is not the structure of season 9, because the characters develop in that season. The problem isn't even the mother's death. The problem is Ted ending up with Robin because that's not life moving forward for him, that's him, doing the same thing he did in 2005, 25 (twenty-fucking-five) years before! 

In conclusion, this finale is incoherent and inconclusive, and not satisfying at all. The only character that gets a good ending is Marshall: why is that? What makes his ending great? It's the fact that his character arc is respected and he finally gets what he's been working towards for more than ten years.

[wenellyb]

My journey in the MCU fandom on Tumblr: Sharing my thoughts on the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, racism in the MCU fandom and the best and the worse of the fandom

I wasn’t going to write this much but here I am… I don’t even know where I’m going with this but since The Falcon and the Winter Soldier just recently came out, I wanted to share some thoughts.

I joined Tumble because of a show I loved but most of you don’t know it “ Hit the Floor”

I stayed on Tumblr for two reasons only, Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan.

Before the Captain America:Civil War premiere, a friend sent me the link to the Sebastian and Anthony ET interview, and I was hooked. In just one interview. I discovered Anthony Mackie. The guy was hilarious!!! I just couldn’t get enough and I knew I had to know more about him. How could he improvise so many funny lines on the spot? He was just amazing.

I had pretty much watched all the avengers movie but that was it. I was not involved in the fandom. So I knew Sam Wilson’s face, but I couldn’t even remember his name if my life depended on it. That’s how much the MCU treated him as a side character.

I was like how the f*ck don’t I know this guy?

His talent reminded me of Eddie Murphy, Jim Carrey or Robin Williams, like yes they can make some emotional or serious movies, but when they want to make you laugh, you will laugh. Whether you want it or not.  I kept wondering how this guy wasn’t more famous.

And the banter with Sebastian Stan? Wow, you could tell their friendship was strong, the way Sebastian lighted up when Anthony was talking, and keep bouncing off his jokes. It was art. the way Sebastian said “ I love you” at the end of the interview. Pure gold.

I then started to watch some of the interviews and boy was that a mistake!!! I literally couldn’t get enough. So I watched all and I say all their interviews, it was the best. We got some gems:

“Why aren’t you looking at me as much”

“Which way is the beach Seabass”

*Them saying nonsense in Spanish and then Sebastian Saying Papi Chulo*

 ¨And so many more, ....

I watched other solo Anthony interviews and he was still HILARIOUS, but you could also tell he felt a little bit more at ease with Sebastian around. I won’t pretend I know him or his personality, but Sebastian seems like a little bit more of an introvert and looks like he doesn’t enjoy the interview experience unless Anthony id around him. Just my thoughts

I watched the interviews before I went to see the movie, I even cosplayed as the Winter Soldier to the movie premiere and I was IN!!! When I saw Captain America Civil War, I became a SamBucky shipper, these two were hilarious and I really so the potential for a great realtionship I love enemy to lovers stories.

I also shipped Stucky because, to me, the trope of the movie was Superhero gives up everything to protect his long term friend” Hollywood movies have some codes and if Bucky were a female character, there is no doubt in my mind that the movie would have been marketed as romance.

Stucky really was an easy ship! But then the MCU fandom of Tumblr fandom messed up everything for me. You see I really liked the CACW and I I liked Stucky, I liked Sambucky, and I loved the introduction of t’Challa’s character, but one of things that affected me the most in the movie was that it was the first blockbuster I watched with 3 black main characters, Rhodey, Sam and T’Challa. That, and the fact that they were planning to realease a Black Panther movie in two years, I was super excited, and that’s the main reason I got involved in the MCU fandom so much, when before, I was just a casual watcher.

If this seem weird to you, then you have no idea how we were only getting crumbs before. For me it was soo huge, I even told all my friends, and they were laughing at me. But usually blockbusters, especially superhero movies get one black character and that’s it, usually the best friend or something and never the leads. So, for me it really was a big deal. How sad is that by the way…

I became more involved in the fandom and, at first, I wasn’t focusing on anything special, Sambucky, Stucky, Stackie, the Black Panther, and even Zemo, whose character I really liked.

But soon I noticed that the CACW tags were always flooded, and I mean flooded with the same two white characters: Steve and Bucky. I told myself, ok that’s fine Steve is the lead after all, but it would be good to see the other characters too.

And then I noticed another interesting trend: Evanstan…. Wait what?

Chris Evans, and Sebastian Stan… did I miss something? Listen, obviously I’m sure they must be friends or something, but you’re going to tell me you watch all MCU the actors and you’re going to focus on Steve and Sebastian? I’m sorry what?

Sebastian and Anthony are right there… Or Chris and Anthony, they even have a secret handshake, only the 2 of them do… what more do you want?

Tell me one iconic Evanstan moment… go ahead tell me… See??? There isn’t.

Because of this and because of how badly some Stuckies were treating Sam and Anthony. I became less and less of a stucky shipper . I mainly focused on SamBucky, Stackie and the Black Panther,

And then the Sebastian Stan stans saw how popular Stackie, Sambucky, were becoming and I started to see some problematic stuff in our fandom too.

I don’t want to generalize, but when you go into the Stackie tag, and you see cropped pictures of Sebastian without Anthony, it’s easy to assume that a Sebastian fan did that. And we know damn well you cropped out Anthony because we watched all Stackie interviews and know exactly which interview your picture was taken from. We know that Anthony was sitting right next to Seb.

You post a picture of Sebastian laughing but you crop out the person who was making him laugh??

“but it has nothing to do with race” How do you know that?

“Sebastian had more screen time” More screen time than Anthony in CATWS or CACW? I don’t think so.

“I have been a fan of Sebastian for longer”, that’s fine but don’t go out cropping Anthony, just post gifs of Seb in his usual, sad, and Anthony-less interviews, not the ones where he’s smiling because his best friend is next to him.

Some of you really are the worst. And just so you know, your fave Sebastian is Anthony’s biggest fan, if he saw pictures where you cropped out Anthony, he would block you on the spot.

When I realized that Anthony Mackie would be the next Captain America I was screaming, no actually, I was crying, Sam Wilson will be Captain America, and Anthony would finally get the recognition he deserves.

You would think that the MCU fandom would focus on Captain America or at least one the two leads, instead of just Sebastian? Right? Right? WRONG.

Anthony is handsome, he’s funny, he’s a great actor, he went to freaking Julliard, he’s at the top, I don’t see what else the man can do??? He should already be a superstar, but no, you will side-line him even to he is the lead of the show.

Even when they are the actual leads, you guys would do anything to bring up the White characters even if it means ignoring the Black characters.

I remember I was having a conversation about Black Panther with my friends and I asked one of my white friends who was his favorite character in BP was and he told me Martin Freeman (don’t even remember his name in the movie) Martin Freaking Freeman, there are half a dozen of great characters and your fave is the only white man??? Ok, ok, that’s great.

Don’t give out automatic reply like “It has nothing to do with race, if you haven’t thought about it first”, because there’s a high probability that it is indeed about race. Stop saying it isn’t, sit down and ask yourself, “Am I biased?” “Why am I reblogging only stuff related to the white characters”.

One of these days you guys are going to make me hate Sebastian with the sh*t you are pulling.

I looove the Stackie friendship and the Sambucky dynamic but after seeing the way some of you treat Anthony and Sam’s character, it make me want to focus on Sam’s character and forget about the rest.

 I remember they were some posts about how Anthony was problematic, and I just lost it. Apparently, there was an old article that resurfaced were Anthony was making a joke about women making sandwiches or something.

If you were offended by the sandwich joke, that is totally ok, and I can understand that.

But if you were offended by the sandwich joke, and saying Anthony is problematic BUT you still stan Chris Evans, Jeremy Renner, ScarJo or even Sebastian Stan, just know that there is a high probability you’re racist.

They have all said or done problematic stuff, and people only seem to remember stuff related to Anthony, which was probably just a joke by the way.

Chris Evans and Jeremy called Black widow a wh*re, ScarJo took roles that she maybe shouldn’t have and I didn’t forget Sebastian shady Instagram post, when Kaepernick was kneeling. There are so many more things to be said about Jeremy Renner but google is your friend.

Anthony also got hate for hating on Tom Holland? Like what? Do you guys even hear yourselves? Don’t you have any friends you like to tease? If you hate someone, do you go around talking about him every chance you get? It was obviously friendly banter but some people wanted to turn it into something it was not. Sigh.

I really cannot with this fandom

 The stackie fandom was small at the beginning and the Sambucky fandom even smaller, but we were there and it was amazing. Sebastian and Anthony received the same amount of love from the fandom and I wish we could go back to those days.

Stop pretending the fandom isn’t racist. Stop saying “it isn’t about race” when you haven’t even thought about.

Saying “it has nothing to do with race” only shows that you haven’t thought about anything but don’t want to be called a racist.

There is racism in this fandom and it will always be there, but if you guys want to do anything about it, you have to acknowledge it first.

You can’t be pulling off stuff like “I don’t see colors”, “ it has nothing to do with race”. Stop, sit down, think about it and then we can have a conversation.

If you’ve made it till the end, I apologize for the typos and grammar mistakes, I wasn’t planning on writing this much.

[skepticalarrie]

I find it weird that the fact that our entire class ship two guys who is close (they are both straight) but people are fine with it, the teacher ships it and they are fine with it and go along with it. But when people ship Larry others are freaking out. I don't know but the ship seems to start as a joke until they got a bit too close. There is literally no need to hide if you really isn't real. That was one of the weird reasons I believed in Larry.

Hi anon. Yeah I think there’s a massive difference between shipping people you actually know in real life and shipping on the internet. I agree with you and I also don’t see these kinds of situations being a real problem IRL either, I think is just a joke a people move on about it quickly and that’s it. On the internet though, like everything else, shipping does get out of hand sometimes. However IMO this doesn't justify what happened with Larry.

Although I think there’s bigger problems in the world people should be concerned about, I understand the concept of fans wanting two people to be together too badly, when they know they’re not, could be a little annoying at times. But, like you said, it's not that deep, you joke about it and try to handle it the best way until the shipping will eventually die out and people will move on to the next big thing. But that's not what happened with Larry. The entire "shipping" situation only became a problem when it was publicly announced that it was a problem and "the biggest load of bullshit" turning fans against each other. Before that everything was fine and everyone was actually taking a piss at the situation and milking the shit out of that bromance. Not to mention how they didn't even properly deny it for years. People never "moved on" from it because 1DHQ always made sure to try to convince us it wasn't real, which just made H&L react accordingly, basically creating a war. "What ifs" are not really my thing, but I always think about a scenario where 1DHQ never tried to shut down rumours by creating scenarios like the bullshit tweet and painting larries as not real fans... a scenario where they simply ignored it. Maybe if they didn't have turned larry in such a big deal, H&L wouldn't have tried to break free from it so desperately and we wouldn't even be talking about it right now. But oh well, it's just something to think about.

But like I said, I think there are more problematic things happening on the internet to worry about than people shipping boybanders. Plus it's not really shipping when they're in fact together, that's not what we are doing here. So.

[rivalsforlife]

Do you have anything you wished was different from Ace Attorney canon?

Hello I'm finally slowly starting to get around to answering some of these! Sorry for the wait.

Uh this ask got super long so a basic summary of it: narumitsu being canon in a well-written way would be nice even though I don't think it would ever happen, I stand by not bringing back Phoenix as a main protagonist in DD, and I'd also want to rewrite all of SOJ so that Apollo goes to Khura'in in place of Phoenix, to have more interesting character stuff going on.

So the longer answer is this:

Aside from some of the actually problematic stuff that I don't feel qualified to talk about, story-wise, I answered a sort of similar question about a year ago here. I have changed my opinions a little bit since then, particularly with regards to the canonicity of narumitsu... because while I do love narumitsu I feel like I don't trust Ace Attorney to actually do it properly. After all if this past November has taught us anything "making a ship canon" could actually be quite undesirable and I have no desire to see Phoenix and/or Edgeworth sent to superhell. (I literally know nothing else about supernatural sorry about that.)

If capcom were somehow able to make narumitsu canon but in an unobtrusive way and as a natural progression of the storyline, like oh hey, the court record profile for Miles Edgeworth's Obligatory Last-Case Appearance has Phoenix mention they're dating, and maybe there's a few lines suggesting they live with each other, but it's not like... taking the entire story to force them together and otherwise does not change the way they interact with each other and butcher one or both of their characterizations in the process? I'd definitely be happy about that. Not gonna lie even if they made narumitsu canon in the most terrible way possible I'd have a "holy shit I can't believe they did that it's the best day of my life" kind of moment before I could think about it critically. But I honestly see no chance of them ever actually making narumitsu canon, so that's quite unrealistic to hope for anyways.

Aside from that in that other ask I talked about basically the premise of an Apollo trilogy and not bringing back Phoenix as the main protagonist in DD, and I still stand by that, buuut in my other ask I did touch on making SOJ a different game where Apollo goes to Khura'in instead of Phoenix - and you know what I'm going to take some time to actually talk about my dream version of SOJ because there were a lot of little things about the one we got that I didn't like. And it's going to be very long. So it's under a cut.

SO yeah I talked about it a bit in the other ask. I think that Phoenix going to Khura'in is a rather weak idea both externally and in-universe. In one of the interviews, too lazy to find which one, Phoenix basically goes to Khura'in because the writers couldn't figure out how to challenge him anymore. ... And then they don't actually challenge him at all. Because oh well now we're going to this new country where they KILL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WHO LOSE and then it's supposed to be *shocking* that Phoenix would risk his life for a kid or his best friend. you know the guy who ran across a burning bridge to save his best friend. you know the guy who got punched in the face, nearly killed by the mafia, and tazed trying to save his clients. This doesn't tell me anything new about Phoenix's character. His whole travel in Khura'in doesn't tell me anything new about Phoenix's character. Basically the only reason he's there is to see Maya - Maya who theoretically would be returning home in about two weeks. Maya who was still in her training for two more weeks when Phoenix visited so he wouldn't be able to see her anyways. ... And in the meantime Trucy had the biggest show of her life that was going to be on TV and Phoenix wasn't there for it. And of course Phoenix didn't return home after Trucy was accused of murder (yes he couldn't be there for the trial, but he definitely could have for the emotional support afterwards) and instead just sits for two weeks in Khura'in doing literally nothing after Ahlbi's trial.

(And yes I know about the anime prologue that has Phoenix think Maya's in danger... but that's not strictly canon since it's never mentioned in game, isn't technically a part of the game, and even still, why wouldn't he go home after knowing that Maya's safe and that Trucy had been ACCUSED OF MURDER. Honestly that's what makes me angriest about this whole thing is that it makes Phoenix out to be a terrible dad. We really don't need any more takes like that, especially not from canon.)

And what about Apollo, you may ask? Well, given case 5 of SOJ, Apollo actually has a personal link to Khura'in and ends up staying there afterwards... after being there for like a day or two. I should note here that it has been a while since I went through SOJ in its entirety so I am fuzzy on many of the details. But both through what I remember and some conversations with people who actually played the game recently, the motivation for Apollo to actually stay in Khura'in isn't that great. It mainly seemed like guilt about his dead dad who he hadn't been in contact with for years and had completely written off until a few days ago but oh he died and then went to go visit him so... better take up the law office!

If Apollo had gone to Khura'in in place of Phoenix and spent more time there, reconnecting with his childhood home and actually getting passionate seeing how corrupt the legal system is there (even though we have a corrupt legal system at home) and being driven to fix it, that would make for a stronger story, I think. The Khura'in plot is more personally focused around Apollo than it is Phoenix. Phoenix's connection to Khura'in is through Maya, but Maya doesn't really have much of a connection to it aside from "it's where spirit channeling is from and she trains there". But Apollo, I guess, grew up there. So it's so strange to me that they force all of Apollo's connection to Khura'in in the last case while Phoenix is running around doing who-knows-what for the rest of the game. Phoenix spends more time getting to know the state of Khura'in and the Defiant Dragons and case 3's whole thing but he isn't the one who in the end decides to sit down and fix it; that's all on Apollo. It almost feels like they forced one of the two plots in to everything. And it was probably conceived as a Phoenix story that they needed to fit Apollo into last minute because oops he's supposed to be a protagonist too.

Some other strengths to Apollo going to Khura'in include that it would shake up the character dynamics a bit. Instead of Phoenix defending Maya, it's Apollo defending Maya, and that's a particularly interesting thing to look at in the context of Khura'in's "we kill defense attorneys" system. Of course, Phoenix would risk his life to save Maya, 100%, every time. But what about Apollo, who hasn't met Maya, who only knows her as "Mr. Wright's former assistant" - would he risk his life for her? And I feel like Maya would argue more against him defending her because of that. "We're strangers, you don't know me, you don't have to risk your life defending me." (Sidenote that I was always upset that Maya didn't protest much when Phoenix offered to defend her, knowing his life was at risk - sure she knows him better and knows he's always been able to get her out of these situations, but at the same time, the fact that there was no "what about your daughter?" conversation sucks. I really wish SOJ wouldn't have like. completely forgotten about the phoenix-trucy father-daughterisms.)

Let's say Apollo goes to Khura'in. Phoenix stays at home. Phoenix gets a call from Apollo that's basically "uhh hi Mr. Wright you know your friend Maya, she's been arrested for murder, if I defend her and I lose we're both dead," then you can tie in to that moment in 6-2 where Phoenix (who can't make it in time for the trial!) believes in Apollo and his skills as an attorney, not just to save Maya's life, but also his own. It ties in a bit more to the overall challenge of defending someone at the risk of your own life. Again, Phoenix would have very few hesitations, if any, risking his life to defend Maya. Apollo may have more defending a stranger at the risk of his own life.

Then if you can actually have Apollo and Maya talk together that would be neat - Maya can tell him embarrassing stories about Phoenix's rookie days, for instance. Their dynamic would be quite a bit different from Phoenix and Maya's, and that would be an interesting thing to see, unlike what we have in SOJ where all of Maya's substantial interactions are with characters she already knows or brand new characters.

(It would also be pretty neat to know more spirit channeling politics and dive in more to Maya's perspective on Khura'in and also her role as upcoming Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique and where she plans to lead the village in the future and also reconcile with her family's bloody legacy, but I'm not quite sure how to fit that in right now.)

And how about Phoenix, back home in Japanifornia? Evidently he'd end up being in charge of defending Trucy. Now, I did love the siblingsisms in canon 6-2, but I feel like there is still potential for Phoenix defending Trucy. All of Apollo Justice has a bunch of good moments between Apollo and Trucy, and she's co-counsel on all his trials, but we've never had any substantial Phoenix and Trucy investigation or co-counsel moments. I feel like AU 6-2 would be a great opportunity to dive more into Phoenix and Trucy's relationship and how it may have changed after Phoenix got his badge back. Plus, Phoenix being "the only one who knows how she really feels on the inside", he'd have unique insider knowledge into some of the Gramarye stuff that comes up in the case and Trucy's personal connection to the Gramaryes, which Apollo knows a bit of, but Phoenix knows more of. ... Or at least, should know more of, given that he raised Trucy for nine years at this point and they're very close, and Phoenix knows her better than anyone else does, even if capcom has forgotten this.

... Of course having Athena defend the case would also be great because more Athena spotlight is never a bad thing, but it's hard to come up with a reason why Phoenix wouldn't be there to defend her. And doing more switcheroos in terms of role in the plot is a bit beyond the scope of what I have in mind right now. Sorry Athena.

Aside from that, Athena still gets Storyteller, Apollo still heads Turnabout Revolution, and Phoenix still gets the DLC case. Apollo stays in Khura'in in the end with a bit more to his motivations. Rather than it just being about carrying on Dhurke's legacy, it's also something Apollo is passionate about after all he witnessed here. While we're at it I'd still rework a lot of Turnabout Revolution to make it so that Phoenix genuinely believes in Atishon because that makes for sooo much more interesting of a plot and actual character development on Phoenix's part than "Maya was kidnapped again and Phoenix is only wrong when he has no other choice", but that'd require some more detail and this post is long enough already.

And in terms of other details that need to be sorted out, there's the question of why Apollo would need to go to Khura'in in the first place. I'd probably say something to do with Dhurke. Maybe he comes back a bit earlier - actually alive, maybe, though crossing borders would be a bit of a challenge, or he reaches out to Apollo remotely somehow and Apollo goes to yell in his face about abandoning him (or at least that's what he thinks he wants.) Then we could have some more Dhurke and Apollo bonding time, potentially? Idk, if you switch up Phoenix and Apollo you're pretty much writing a whole new game and obviously I have not worked out all the details, but I think if Capcom had tried to go with this route from the outset they'd have a stronger game. At least stronger character motivations.

So... yeah. Those are my opinions. If you read through this whole thing I'm very impressed because it got very long!

[thoughts-on-bangtan]

Memories of 2020 - Initial asks and a small discussion

*cracks knuckles* Here we go.

If any of you have spent any amount of time today on any ARMY sns platform, I’m sure you’ve seen the mess which, as seasoned ARMY, I can tell you was the exact same mess we see...every single time. I can’t particularly say I’m surprised by any of it, especially when watching the entire process, as in the first clips hitting the TL and then the rest slowly following suit like a flood building steadily as the hours went by.

From anon: be ready for insecure vminies 😂

I’m pleased to report it wasn’t actually as bad as I expected, though now that I’m typing this I probably jinxed my own luck and the flood of asks will come soon enough, but maybe not. I’m holding on to the latter.

Based on the cycle in which these things happen every time, as in that the first clips that hit the ARMY spaces are Xkook ones, followed by vmin and other ships, and lastly more OT7 content, I expected our asks to go haywire after that clip, you know which one I mean. But we’ve only gotten two (?) about it, kind of, so I guess most people understood that it was just for laughs and nothing serious that anyone would have to get insecure over.

From anon: Sigh. This is my first memories of bts as army and i'm already tired of how all of twitter seems to be about 1 j*/k*ok moment now. There were so many j*n/kook m*ments and hugs and a sweet h*pe/k*ok backhug moment and a good number of vmin moments including slow dancing so why is the focus always on that one ship?

Here’s the thing, maybe my TLs are just well curated, I don’t know, but on mine no one really focused on that moment? Even non-shipper OT7s just briefly had a chuckle and then moved along to other things, awww’ed at vmin moments, there was lots and lots of talk about J*nk*ok being super cute and there being so much content when it comes to their interactions, there was a lot of chatter about basically every duo and OT7 moment. I know ship specific spaces went nuts, Xkookers butting heads like their lives depend on it, but outside of them?

“All of twt” is an exaggeration and I know, believe me I do, that Xkookers have the ability to make it seem like everyone just cares about their moments because they themselves (the shippers) are loud and seemingly everywhere, but when you look past them, that isn’t the case. Shippers have a tendency to generalize, especially those who follow a lot of their fellow shippers, but when you step outside of shipper spaces, things look very differently.

Like anon said, though I’d like to preface this by saying that I haven’t seen the entirety of Memories of 2020 so I can only go by what I have seen though I’d say I’ve seen nearly everything that was posted on twt or at least as much as I could find (including Xkook things), there were a lot, and I mean a lot, of amazing moments between basically all the members, regardless of who your favorite duo might be, I’m sure there was something for you there. Even those who are supposedly a rarity. And even as vminnies, this time around we had a feast with so many amazing vmin moments, some funny ones, some random ones, some super cute ones, whatever you want, there is something there for you to find. And the same can be said about so many other duos, we even got Yoongi and Hobi FaceTiming each other, and Yoongi saying they look like a couple while looking at the pictures Hobi chose for the coffee truck he sent to Yoongi’s Daechwita MV filming set.

There’s one discussion I’d like to get out of the way below the cut, but after that I will have another post very, very soon in which I want us to just have some fun and look at vmin, namjin and the other moments because there is just so much to find. And this is just day one of people having the DVDs, these discussion will continue for a while because, like I mentioned before, Memories are a treasure trove for OT7 content and fun stuff, and there’s more than eleven hours worth of it to be watched, discovered and discussed.

But, okay, let’s get into that moment since anons wanted to talk about it and know my thoughts on it, so let’s do just that. And yes, other anon from a while ago, I remember you once mentioning how I shouldn’t talk about other ships and shouldn’t “debunk” them and their moments, though I’d hardly call this debunking, but as I said many times since our first post, I’m ARMY before I am a vminnie and namjinist, and our blog is called thoughts on Bangtan and, as far as I’m aware, both JK and Jimin are part of Bangtan, so I don’t see a reason why I can’t show my perspective on it and also voice my grievances with shippers when it comes to that moment. And, before anyone comes into our asks to yell at me for being toxic/problematic or only doing this to make my ship look better or whatever, no, that isn’t the point, like at all. 

“Debunking” moments makes literally no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things and doesn’t affect reality, all I am doing is having a chat just like everyone else. I’m not even asking you to agree with me, you’re more than welcome not to, I can’t and won’t stop you. Also, just so you know, my initial reaction was just to laugh amused by it, no hard feelings, so I’m not the bad guy.

That being said...the Xkook moment.

Here’s the thing, when it first surfaced many hours ago, the moment itself was cut down to show just the moment of Jimin leaning close to JK and JK leaning back and turning his head away so his cheek faced Jimin...and cut, some even cutting off the video before JK turned his head. That’s it. People, as in shippers, freaked out, and everyone else had a good laugh and moved along to other things, even vminnies were joking about it and everything. I saw none of my fellow vminnies getting angry or insecure about it. Then, as time went by, someone else posted that scene but this time also showing the things leading up to it, so putting it into context instead of removing it. With the context suddenly the whole thing looked and felt completely differently since moments prior Jimin was pretending to stab JK with the pointy end of his mic and then acted as though to check if he was d*ad, as in the end of the scene. Turns out it was just for giggles and not some grand romantic moment in a room full of people and a camera close to their faces.

By that time, of course, those who cared most about that moment had long decided what meaning this holds and didn’t care once context was shown. Gifs and art had already been created, the yelling was loud, and the fights between Xkookers were reaching levels of toxicity I hadn’t seen in a while, which was disgusting and fucked up the say the least. But, the thing is, I don’t think the moment itself was the issue. In context and as rational ARMY you know it was just Jimin playing around with JK as they usually do, things we’ve also seen other members do in similar (though not quite like this) fashion, and after eight years since debut and nine of knowing each other, this isn’t shocking or new in any way. No, the issue were Xkookers and the way they treated this moment, some even going as far as taking screenshots and editing them to make it seem like they were about to kiss, as in they changed the placements of their heads to fit their narrative, as well as others making gifs where they play the moment backwards (leaving out the part where JK leans his head away and to the side) and thus they created their own version of the moment which was different from what had actually happened.

That is my biggest issue with this whole thing. The blatant manipulation of moments to create narratives that don’t match reality, twisting them and using them in stupid pointless fights. But imagine vminnies were to do any of that, all hell would break loose and we’d be attacked without mercy because how dare, and yet they don’t follow their own “logic” and “rules”. It’s more than okay to find any and all moments cute, we all do, to make jokes and whatnot, but twisting context, manipulating it and basically creating your own version of it goes too far. 

Take what we are given as what it is, instead of what you want it to be.

So, now that that’s done, please fellow vminnies and ARMYs, don’t be insecure or let people ruin your mood and fun over it. It’s not worth it. Instead let’s check out and have a talk about some of the fun vmin and OT7 moments we got, along with other ones, including my reply to another anon when it comes to namjin. Of course what I will mention in the post (HERE) is basically just the tip of the iceberg since tumblr has a limit on pictures and everything, so just know there is so much more still left to see than just that.

Before I’ll go, for those who still feel a little insecure/doubtful/whatever else, while I was working on this post and the other one, another anon sent in this well timed vmin ask:

From anon: I have to say this as a Vmin supporter. Whatever is going on with Vmin we can rest assure what they is special/untouchable. They graduated HS & college together, going for Bachelors together. Jimin-ah I like you the most. I want to live with my lovely Taehyung for the rest if my life. Their future is together, friends/soulmates or more they said it. I won’t tear down other members closeness (good for them) their bonds don’t erase Vmins. I’m just happy with the moments Vmin allow us to see.

[mindibindi]

Beyond disappointed in Ted Lasso. What were they thinking?!

The writing is a complete betrayal and insult to Rebecca’s character and Hannah’s skills as they’re being seriously underused. It’s also insulting Sam’s character.

Hoping someone pulls Rebecca’s head out of her ass tbh. Sam shouldn’t be getting caught in the crossfire of her looking for romance. I know he showed up at her doorstep but she still should’ve turned him away, and not even messaged him in the first place.

Hey, I'm with you, Anon, though we do seem to be in the minority. Sam is definitely not blameless here, he is also in the wrong. But if one of them is more in the wrong, it is Rebecca. I can't speak to whether her head has left her arse as yet because I have quit watching (at least for now). I hear she called it off with Sam in the most recent ep, though not because of any major crisis of conscience or because anyone in her inner circle expressed any reasonable reservations in response to her bad behaviour. And to be honest, I'm not sure we should need to hope and pray that Rebecca's precocious god-daughter, her slimy ex-husband, or the brutal British press will act as a moral compass on this ill-advised relationship. Both Rupert and the press have been set up to some extent as the villains of the piece. And a 14 year old should never have to school her elders on what is and isn't acceptable. Nora's needs have already been neglected by Rebecca for far too long.

If a moral position is to be taken on this, it needs to be taken by the show (because stance matters) and/or by its characters. But the show has for the most part depicted this relationship as ill-advised but ultimately hot, sweet, funny and romantic. As for the characters themselves, Sam has shown at least once that he has some moral backbone but seems to be adorably clueless when it comes to fucking his boss who keeps trying to set boundaries with him. Meanwhile, Rebecca's whole arc in s1 was about learning not to misuse her power for her own selfish ends. In season one, she misused her power within the club in order to exact revenge. In season 2, we have seen her misuse her sexual power, though I still cannot see to what end. I'm a bit at a loss as to what exactly she gets out of this 'relationship' but then I'm a grown woman so I have absolutely no interest in sleeping with a Harry Potter enthusiast barely out of his teens. I couldn't think of anything less sexy and more ick. I was certainly hoping for better character development for her this season.

As to what the writers were thinking, obviously I was not in the writer's room, but I would guess that they were thinking that any drama is good drama, people are stupid and fan devotion will trump any meaningful critique. In other words, they were thinking exactly how every other television writer thinks, despite the fact that this show posited itself as 'not like other TV shows'. This, to me, is where the blame really lies. Not with the characters or with the actors who are doing their best to sell this ludicrous turn of events. It must be noted, however, that both actors were completely blindsided by this relationship that had supposedly been so cleverly foreshadowed. Newsflash: if the people actually living these stories did not see this coming then you haven't foreshadowed shit. Sure, there were a handful of people that paired Rebecca with Sam but this does not constitute proof either. Fans have free-range to imagine and re-imagine characters. In some cases this may extend to imagining relationships between characters who have barely, if ever, interacted. There may be little to no evidence that these characters have even clocked each other's existence and some fans will still ship it. The existence of a handful of shippers does not legitimise such a problematic and divisive plotline making it onscreen.

But wait!, you might argue, this may not be a case of a popular show seeing just how far they can stretch fan devotion. This may not be a case of fan service to a handful of shippers. After all, the creators mapped out the entire three-season arc of Ted Lasso before they even pitched it to Apple. This was their brilliant plan all along! To which I would say: then maybe they should've rethought their second act based on people's strong reactions to their first. Ted Lasso was touted as the show we all needed in 2020. The writers and creators have all marveled at the chord it struck considering it was conceived prior to the pandemic and all the chaos it wrought. And while there is something to be said for having/sticking to a creative vision, there is also something to be said for being flexible and responsive to your audience and the cultural zeitgeist with which you're engaged. Season 1 of Ted Lasso told its story so gently, without creating distrust, division or unnecessary anxiety. It did not treat its audience like a gaggle of stupid lemmings to be led over a succession of narrative cliffs. THIS is what I mean when I say the show has broken with its brand. And look, this whole dark forest thing would be okay if the narrative arc was as well-crafted as s1. Season 1 gave us meaning, cohesion, comfort, sense in a senseless time. It was an almost perfectly crafted season of television. And I kept the faith for 6 episodes, despite the first half of s2 being pretty damn wobbly. But the follow-up to this stellar debut has been less than extraordinary so yeah, perhaps they should've thought a little harder about what made s1 so special before throwing it all out the window.

But wait!, I hear the faithful say, you don't know how things will pan out yet! Wait until the season is over and everything will make sense! But -- wearily and once again, I say -- we should not need to wait until the end of the season to understand what the hell is happening. By this point (over halfway through the season and show) we should have a v clear idea of the show's themes and the characters' arcs. And tbf, from what I can tell there are some fab things happening in other aspects of the show that I wish I could watch and enjoy. But my biggest fear at this point is that they are going to use Sam to solve Rebecca's childlessness. That, like Rupert (because the parallel cannot be avoided), she will become pregnant with a young fling and the show's attitude to this relationship will ultimately be: oh well, it was a bad idea and didn't work out for them but it was all for the best in the end cos who can be mad about a cute lil baaaayyybbbeeee??!! If they do go down this path then I will definitely be abstaining from the rest of the show. I will simply recall my repeated viewings of s1 with fondness tinged with regret at just how badly they fucked up a good thing.

Ultimately, Anon, I think this may be a case of there simply not being a diverse enough perspective in the writer's room. I am not saying that every single woman or every single person of colour will necessarily object to this relationship. I am simply saying that women and people of colour will be more sensitive to the issues of gender and race that are relevant here but that have not been fully or sensitively acknowledged in the writing of this plotline. Neither am I saying that Rebecca is the first woman to sleep with a man much (much, much, MUCH) younger than herself or indulge in an ill-advised relationship. But the comparison with Rupert both works here and doesn't because Rebecca is not being written like a white woman, she is being written like a white man. Realistically, only a white man can engage in this kind of hugely imbalanced relationship seemingly without any major moral qualms or societal ramifications. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this kind of relationship is reserved for all the Bills and Joes and Brendans and Jasons out there -- not for the Rebeccas and definitely not for the Sams. We are way beyond the point in feminism where we believe that liberation is simply the right for a white woman to behave as badly as a white man. The truth is that whatever wealth, power and privilege Rebecca has, the rules are different for men and women. She will not be treated the same as Rupert if and when this affair is uncovered. She will be treated far more savagely than Rupert ever was and Sam will be treated far more savagely than Bex was. This is not an argument for the equal treatment of these two relationships. It is an argument against how the relationship between Rebecca and Sam has been envisaged, i.e. through the wrong perspective. In writing from a 'neutral' white male pov, the show has invisiblised all the many issues activated by this storyline and revealed a blindspot that was always there.

As much as I loved and still love season 1 of this show, it has definite blindspots when it comes to representations of race and gender. There are at least two moments in s1 that stand out for me as being so obviously written by a man. Not necessarily because of what they do but because of what they don't do: what is missed, absent, unacknowledged. I was willing to overlook such minor failings in a debut season for many reasons. But s2 seems to have exacerbated these minor flaws rather than correcting them. And here I can't help thinking of Tina Fey speaking of the diversification of the writer's room at SNL during her tenure as co-headwriter. This notoriously male-dominated environment only began to shift and produce better work when a greater diversity of minds, voices and persepectives was allowed in the room. In this richer environment, she notes, different jokes played differently. Different sketches made it to air. Different perspectives were represented and different performers were celebrated. I can't help wondering if this plotline would have made it to air if there had been a female writer, a writer of colour or both further up the chain of command to challenge the ideas of the straight white dudes in charge.

One of the reasons I didn't think Ted Lasso was for me was that it centred a straight, white, cis-het, able-bodied man who rose to a position he didn't earn. That is just not a pov I would normally choose for myself, especially now that there is such a rich array of alternative perspectives through which to view the world. But I think the show won a lot of females fans with its first season largely due to its portrayal of Rebecca. She is the first person we meet. She is arguably the protagonist of s1. And while she would have been figured as a villain in previous pieces, the show never took that stance with her (because again, stance matters). Other elements like the depiction of female friendships, all centred around Rebecca, made this show female-friendly viewing. But imo, the major reason this show won over female fans (this one, at least) is because, in this post-MeToo, post-TimesUp era, it stood up and said: domestic violence is not okay, we stand with women and all victims of abuse, we will defend you, we know words can hurt, we know it can happen to anyone, we know all about toxic masculinity, we do not take this lightly and we will support you in your healing. Needless to say, this is how women hope men will act when they speak of their most difficult experiences but it is not how they always do.

The shift away from Rebecca this season has however meant that the white male experience is more centred than it was in s1. Rebecca's journey to recovery, health and happiness has been trivialised and sidelined, reduced to a highly questionable sexcapade. Meanwhile, we get overwrought manpain at every turn. We get Beard wandering around London (no, I haven't seen it and no, I don't need to. We've all been raised on white dudes thinking they're genuises when they have a figurative wank all over our screens). We get NO queer represention at all. And the only other female characters on screen are in care/service roles to men. The father/son, mentoring and toxic masculinity themes are all still there but they're no longer balanced out by ANY other competing perspective. One of the reasons I was okay with Ted failing upwards in s1 was that he used his power and privilege to lift up others. He was the one in service. He used his enormous privilege for good, as anyone with such privilege must. (Admittedly, it could be argued that this is just another version of a white savior narrative).

My point here is that I'm not sure that peeking behind the mask at the sad clown is as revolutionary as some might believe. We love it because it's familiar. But this is a narrative with a long and problematic history. Do I believe in tearing down toxic masculinity in all its forms? You bet. Do I believe that patriarchy traumatises men as well as women and every other minority in existence? I mean...nowhere near as much, but absolutely. Do I believe in men expressing their feelings and going to therapy? Wholeheartedly. But I am also aware that 100 or so years ago, we were in a very similar place with our narratives. Everyone is looking for a recapitulation of modernism and frankly, this might be an indicator of just that. Whenever women and people of colour have demanded rights and recognition, there has always been a resurgence of tales about just how frickin' hard it is to be a white man. Minority genders and non-white people have never in western history been as visible or vocal as they are now. So forgive me (or don't, I don't care) if I critique a show not only for centering fathers, sons, boys and men but for blindly and boldly writing one of its only female characters and one of its only black characters as if their gender and race just do not exist. There are many other power differentials at play in this relationship, including age, experience, wealth and position, but race and gender are the two that patriarchy is most invested in invisiblising. So I don't care how brilliant they think they are, I will not trust the writing of a bunch of white dudes trying to tell me that race and gender are irrelevant.

[spade-riddles]

Submission:

I’m a lesbian just a year older than Taylor and I’d never heard of that “All Over Me” movie, tbh. But you know what I had heard of? You know what was absolutely HUGE in the community when it came out in 2006? 

“Loving Annabelle.”

Younger bloggers don’t like to talk about this on Tumblr because the age gap relationship is considered problematic in the post MeToo era. But I was around at the time and this was one of a handful of lesbian movies we had, and I can tell you, EVERYONE watched it. It was like Spashley in “South Of Nowhere”. Or “The L Word”. We clung to every scrap of representation we could find back then, even if it wasn’t amazing, because it was all we had. Especially if the women actually got to have sex in it, and they didn’t die or get dumped for a man in the end. 

And “Loving Annabelle” was HUGE. It had a badass heroine and a sexy older woman. It had actual chemistry between the two leads. It had a killer soundtrack.

The premise of the movie is that a senior at a Catholic boarding school starts a relationship with her teacher. She is already sexually experienced and is the one who pushes for the relationship, which does end up with the teacher being fired regardless. But you can see why people would have problems with the premise today. However I feel like I should say, in the movie it is very much played as two women with an age gap falling in love, when the timing is wrong. Many lesbians in age gap relationships, or femme/femme relationships, felt really represented by the movie. It was also one of the few movies to show a woman trying to reconcile her love for other women with her Catholic faith. For a lot of reasons, this resonated with people.

Pretty much every fandom back in the day had its “Loving Annabelle” influenced AU for their lesbian ship. Whether you like it or approve of it or not, it was big at the time, and if Taylor was gay back then (as evidence suggests she was) then it would be nearly impossible for her not to have checked it out. And if we’re not projecting 2021 standards of wokeness on teenage Taylor (which I think would be pretty unreasonable to do) then yeah, I think she would have liked this movie.

She was in a relationship with a (slightly) older woman. She had her own journey with her faith. She had a thing for blondes. Hell, the lead character in the movie even wins over her love interest by playing a song for her on guitar!! I absolutely think this movie appealed to Taylor back then. It even explains something that has always seemed a little odd: the music video for “The Story Of Us”. The song is probably about Taymily, even though the hetsplanation says it’s about John Mayer or somebody. And Taylor sets the video in what looks like some kind of American Catholic school, from the uniforms? 

I think this was Taylor’s way of hiding her truth in the video. She keeps calling back to “Love Story”, with the lyrics and the book and the school setting, but then she includes these uniforms, even though she didn’t go to a high school like that. And they’re so similar to the “Loving Annabelle” uniforms, I feel like it was Taylor’s way of sneaking in her truth with Emily. 

In some of the cutaways she even looks like she’s having an emotional breakdown sitting on the teacher’s desk. (What would she be doing hanging out in the teacher’s office if she was a student in love with another student, like the video wants you to think? It’s weird.)

But the biggest piece of evidence this movie had an impact on Taylor is the soundtrack. There was a whole soundtrack created for the movie by the band Aurah. The main song is the one from the love scene, called “All Over Me”. And now we find out Taylor wrote a song, in the Taymily era, with those lyrics? Too much of a coincidence. 

You want to know what’s even weirder? Someone made a post about this song in the Kaylor fandom, about a year ago. They were comparing the lyrics to “Delicate” and saying how “Taylor” the themes were. I was on the fence about it back then but the more I think about it the more I think they were right. It just went back earlier than they thought. I can see younger Taylor being inspired by this movie. 

(PS: if people want to clutch their pearls about this movie can they please just not? If “Twilight” is allowed to be a guilty pleasure movie for the straights I don’t see why lesbians can’t have our one flawed thing. The actual way the characters treat each other in this is way healthier, despite the teacher/student set up.)

[tundrainafrica]

All the HCs and side materials aside, who do you think was closer to Levi, Erwin or Hange? While there was this acker host thing with Erwin but it was debunked. Meanwhile he hasn't even acknowledged Hange's sacrifice even once so theres that too.

Oh god, so yes I have wanted to answer this ask for a while, thought of pushing it until night time today but I got locked out of the office though thirty minutes before my shift so let me just cope with the stress by giving my feedback on this because I feel like I have already explained my side to a lot of people but I’d rather have it immortalized in my blog at this point. 

Okay first question

Who do you think was closer to Levi, Erwin or Hange?

I find this question thought provoking but I don’t like these types of questions because they tend to start fights? And they tend to cause unnecessary drama both in real life and online. And relationships are so hard to quantify like of course there's a clear line between acquaintance and best friend but the nuances between siblings, lover, best friend and parent are a little more complex because we all have a lot of people we care about deeply but can we easily say who we love more?

(this is still a great question though anon, thank you for asking it.)

It’s literally like the epitome of asking ur parents “who’s your favorite child” or “who do you love more your best friend for so many years or your girl friend of like two years who you met, clicked then realized they were the love of your life.” Who will you save when in a burning building? your wife? Or your parents? Or your siblings? Your best friend?

Such problematic questions which I think a lot of us in our lives would rather never have to answer, especially in front of our loved ones. 

I am not making assumptions about what type of relationship Levi had with Erwin or what type of relationship Levi had with Hange in this post because I don’t wanna start shipping wars in this very peaceful website. (But, I ship Levihan and will probably die with this ship close to my heart so you can make assumptions about my opinions on Levi and Hange’s relationship based on that.) 

But the point is, Erurihan has always been special. Levi held a lot of people close to his heart over the years but I found that trio to have notably been the closest and Erwin and Hange have changed Levi’s lives the most. 

Would Levi have played favorites between them?? NO. Because Erwin and Hange were such different people that putting them side by side and thinking “who did Levi love more”  is like comparing apples to oranges, putting them side by side and thinking which fruit tastes better.

Because Hange and Erwin offered different things to Levi. Literally, Erwin became that next purpose for Levi after he lost his two best friends. He saw wonder in Erwin’s eyes, he saw a leader, he saw someone who can guide him to a bigger purpose and he trusted Erwin so deeply and Erwin trusted him back and even as a Levihan fan, I might actually admit that early on in the series, Levi was probably much closer to Erwin than Hange. Fine I admit it he probably was. 

But Hange offered something else to Levi. While Erwin offered a path, Hange offered wonder, curiosity. She offered Levi things to think about beyond the survey corps job. I mean Erwin was practically married to his job right. Hange was practically married to her job too but I found Hange more... approachable? Warmer overall? I mean if you actually see Eren’s interactions with the three of them or you watch from Season 1, you would realize that Hange was really the most approachable survey corps veteran from the start (other than petra).

And I think Levi really appreciated that part of her and saw it as something worth entertaining. He completely believed in Erwin, Erwin gave him a purpose in life but Hange was the one who added color to it, she actually added something beyond that purpose. She made him feel things he probably wouldn’t have felt elsewhere. 

Annoyance? Anger? Defeat at how someone could be so enthusiastic and dense? Curiosity? Someone who might have made him think that maybe, soldiering and survey corps-ing and almost being eaten by titans everyday wasn’t so bad. And maybe there is joy in the domestic in betweens?  

Another thing, here’s what Hange had that Erwin didn’t have, she had the luxury of time, she also had the luxury of circumstances on her side, of having been the only one left out of the veterans for Levi to cling on to. This made it more natural for a deeper friendship and relationship to develop between the two. So if Hange is closer to Levi than Erwin is, then it’s because of the circumstances that it made it so, post season 3.

If Erwin lived, the dynamics of erurihan would have definitely developed differently. But I never considered the possibiliy of Erwin living instead of Hange since Levi picking Armin just felt really in character and right for me. So yeah, it’ll probably stay a shallow speculation until the end haha.  

And about this second question...

“Meanwhile he hasn't even acknowledged Hange's sacrifice even once so theres that too.” 

Yo. Just a reminder, Hange died like roughly an hour or two ago manga time. Levi is literally internally bleeding, the shit show just never stopped for a second and for some reason people are expecting Levi to give a nod at Hange’s death. 

Okay yes, she did mean a lot to him. But lemme give you the explanation which has been sticking to me for a really long time.  

Levi is clowning. Like literally, I don’t think he has even acknowledged that Hange is dead yet. We have concrete hints that he is. After ‘dedicate your heart’ he just walked away and didn’t look back. It’s in the fact that he didn’t even look out the window to watch her die and in the fact that his last words were “see you later” like I’m pretty sure he’s thinking to himself “Yeah, like I know she is probably gonna die objectively but… Just, what if… she lives?? 

Just like all of us Hange stans in the website yo with our beast titan theory, Levi is just the biggest clown of us all (since he is the biggest Hange stan anyway...).  He decided (unconsciously or consciously) to ‘pretend’ that Hange’s still alive maybe until the end of the war just so that he could possibly function at least (?). 

I mean I’m pretty sure we’ve all done this in our lives. Especially when we’ve lost someone we’ve loved dearly or maybe when we’re saying good bye to someone in the airport where we’re just laughing our heads off with that person all the way until the departure gate when they say good bye and we only break down when we’re home alone. Like I’m pretty sure it’s similar for people who have lost someone, kept themselves busy with funeral preparations and memorial services and only start experiencing the loss when they go back to normal life and realize they have to clean out someone’s bedroom or fix their daily routine to adjust to the loss of that loved one.

Maybe Levi will finally acknowledge it when everything goes back to normal and he finds Hange’s office empty and he realizes he doesn’t have his buddy to have tea with every night. And if Yams decides not to write or insert that, I’ll probably just speculate it myself and keep this theory alive. 

I actually wrote a drabble about this a long time ago. You can read it here.

Anyway, thanks for reading!