ivyminie

[ivyminie]

want to start a conversation on possible themes bts will explore for, for the next album, taking in the current context...because every single one of their albums and songs (maybe aside from butter) have always reflected the context they were in and tracked where they were in life, or emotions they dealt with through the writing process...so with all of that in mind i wonder what the thematic and storyline will be focused on. everyone is free to send suggestions

[ivyminie]

hoping pdogg will be with them in the US because thats the kind of environment with producers that i feel jimin is the most comfortable in to create 👆and also pdogg just has a talent to catch good melodies and give space to jimins ideas to create smth phenomenal

[ivyminie]

A lot of people started stanning Jimin because of FACE, even if they already knew BTS. I’m one of them. I found BTS through Dynamite. I listened to a few songs and thought Jungkook was the main singer, since he sang the most and had the most visibility. I noticed Jimin because he was really good-looking, but that was it. I didn’t follow him, and I had no idea he was one of the main dancers.I didn’t really like Butter, and Permission to Dance was the worst for me..I actually can’t stand it.

Then Proof came out, and since everyone was talking about it, I watched Yet to Come MV. I thought it was bad (I get now that it was full of references, but I still don’t like it). After that, I kind of forgot about BTS until Set Me Free Pt.2. That’s when I became a Jimin stan.

So it’s not true that Jimin “stands out” in the group that much, especially if you discovered BTS after Dynamite. He doesn’t even seem like the main dancer. In Butter, it feels like JK and J-Hope are the focus in terms of dancing. In Yet to Come, Jimin is barely there. And I don’t get why you say it’s “rapline-focused” when JK and V sing most of it. You even mentioned Run BTS, but Jimin only sings two lines at the beginning and nothing else.

So some people got into Jimin because of his solo work, especially since the group has been pushing other members more lately. Sure, if you look at older eras, Jimin had a more central role as a dancer. But if you start with the newer songs, he really doesn’t come across as the main dancer.

I think you’re looking at it through the army lens, where it feels like the group gives everyone the same spotlight, including Jimin. But that’s just not how it comes across to everyone else.

So yeah, since I’m a solo stan, I honestly feel like the group takes something away from Jimin. I don’t think they really show his full talent. That’s just my opinion and it’s just as valid as yours, whether you’re an army or ex army.

jfc imagine seeing thee dynamite era jimin or rainbow hair jimin doing all of that on stage and being like "naaah didn't catch my eyes"

also yall weren't here for dark&wild and skool luv affair and it shows...

the only thing a group can "take away" from a member is not having a song with only his voice, and having to adjust some things for the sake of a group teamwork but people that sign up for groups and want to be part of that journey KNOW that...like it comes with it...there is also things and a type of experience you gain from being in a group that a solo artist will never know or experience and that is unique in a good way on its own and has its advantages. jimin can do both and thats what them having had even in the past opportunities to release mixtapes were for, cause sometimes when u work on music the messaging u go for can't fit with the groups (a lot of times it worked tho with namjoons writing) but still there are messages that are too personal and again they can still release that and jimin can too. just tune in to whatever fits you idk anymore atp.

[ivyminie]

https://www.tumblr.com/ivyminie/788282695358791680/i-get-what-youre-saying-and-i-respect-your-view

As a Jimin fan but a BTS fan, I have to agree with you and also with this anon. Jimin has been one of the biggest forces behind BTS success for years, except that things started to change drastically since 2021. And I don’t think it’s because he stopped being excited or prioritizing the group, his input simply started to be dismissed. Something changed from that year on, there is clear difference from the BTS from 2016 to the BTS of 2021. And I don’t think it’s victim blaming, it’s simply a fact: from being a vocalist and main dancer in the past to having 3 second lines in their latest songs, and not being on center for choreographies anymore. But at the end of the day, it’s what the group (including him) and their team chose. One thing we all need to remember though is that his place in the group is very different from a rapline member. And I’m not saying he is being mistreated, just that there is a “hierarchy” in the group dynamic that we also can’t forget about because it will always be there when it comes to their creative work. I think being pessimistic about something that hasn’t even happened is useless, but we can’t also dismiss how things work for them as a group currently. Expecting them to go back to their golden years when Jimin’s power was used to gain more momentum for the whole team is not realistic because this is now an already established group with other ambitions as the members step into their solo careers.

I appreciate this conversation because I think it’s healthy for all the fans to express how they feel, and I understand anon’s points too because they make a lot of sense for the ones that have been following the group since the beginning. And usually when 2 opinions drastically opose, the truth is probably right in the middle. No one can’t demand things from an artist, but fans should also have the option to disagree or feel unpleased with something. I’m personally interested to see what they’ll work on, but I also know what to expect in terms of group dynamics and contribution (or rather recogniton) without making him a martyr, simply knowing that that is also his choice and people will naturally agree or disagree with that.

anon genuinely asking this. give me a report that shows jimin having 3lines in THEIR lastest SONGS(plural+giving the impression of this being a standard). Also what is considered choreo in latest songs? cause wasn't proof the last "album" and didn't that have songs with no choreo except for RUN BTS and if you think run bts choreo sidelined jimin and he wasn't highlighted in it at all ig well there is nothing i can tell u i just don't agree and we don't see choreo making in the same way ig. If by latest songs and choreo btw you mean dynamite butter BE...then again just factually not correct.

like jfc not even jin stans be doing all of this.

Yk what let's all just agree to disagree we don't have the same vision of things, as u said the album isn't even released and ultimately those who will be counting lines and center spots on the choreo will be doing that and in all cases will have to deal with the feeling it brings somehow eventually, and maybe wait for other opportunities that fit with their standard of things.

[ivyminie]

People are so dramatic 🙄. I'm so tired of the 3 seconds thing cause in reality Jimin has the second highest amount of lines in the group overall and a few songs aren't going to change that, especially when those songs are unlikely to be what BTS's new music will sound like. Do these people seriously think that the new album will be filled with songs like My Universe (a Coldplay song), Yet To Come (a 'goodbye for now' song focused on the rap line who usually get way less then the vocal line) and Take Two (a festa fan song)? Isn't it more likely that the album will have songs like the english trilogy or the Be songs? Cause contrary to what these people seem to think Jimin actually has the second highest amount of lines in both the english trilogy and in Be overall. Yes I actually checked the amount of seconds because, since these people are so insistent on spreading a false narrative, I wanted to make sure I had the right information.

"Oh no! 😫 Hybe and the other BTS members have been trying to erase Jimin from the group since 2020 and the proof is that he only had one line in a Coldplay collab they only performed once. Let's ignore the fact that he's the member with the most amount of lines in Butter, a song they heavily promoted and performed at the Grammys. That's not important. Focus on My Universe!!! 😡"

These people just want to convince themselves the world is gonna end if Jimin is working with his group because they let online fanwars influence them into thinking the members hate Jimin and are jealous of him to the point of sabotaging him. Unless of course they wanna brag about the praise those same members have given Jimin since discharge or about how he's the center of the group and that they all couldn't stop laughing and smiling at him in the recent live. In this situation they'll temporarily forget the narrative that they all hate Jimin. Cause that's convient.

yeah it all gets down to finding the right excuse that will validate the agenda that jimin needs to leave bts and that them going against what he wants is valid because they know what's best for him and whats the right career. like at the end of the day all these discources are honestly so useless cause you just know that ultimately thats not happening and he will choose the road to success and growth that he wants in whatever context. and he is worthy and successful and a real artist in whatever context, and will continue to grow TRUST.

[ivyminie]

one of my all time favorite bts songs when i think about it now are a mix of songs where jimin had the most lines and others where he didn't and that were rapline focused like: ma city, tomorrow, jump, boyz with fun (funnily enough that was the jimin that got me locked in forever), baepsae (an iconic song and messaging), take two(i do think the melody is just amazing)...so ultimately to me the overall final result matters to me so much and good music is just good music, i won't be obsessing over counting lines and i just know out of a full album its just meant to happen that the distribution won't be the same for every song, maybe this comes with me also liking the group which some others don't for whatever reason. Like ofc i'd love for jimin to get the intro cause he kills that or the bridge part and just a lot of lines but if it doesn't happen for one song i won't be forcing myself to dislike it if its a good song still, like i'm here for the music and music quality and that was i was here for all these years so if they bring that back i'm in.

[ivyminie]

I get what you're saying and I respect your view, but I honestly don’t agree. Jimin himself has said that the songs he wanted weren’t chosen for the BTS album. So this idea that he's freely choosing everything, or that individuality within the group is fully respected, doesn’t really hold up. You can’t call it real freedom if his input keeps getting dismissed. This isn’t about saying he should leave the group or denying how meaningful BTS has been for him. But we also have to admit that Jimin has had to adapt to what he’s allowed to do, which means sacrificing parts of himself, compromising, and often shrinking his voice for the sake of the group. Yes, individuality can exist in a group if the group actually makes space for each member to be heard and seen equally. But in Jimin’s case, that hasn’t been happening lately. And whether people want to admit it or not, certain roles and dynamics (pushed by the company) end up silencing others. So no, fans who point this out aren’t trying to control him, they just want to finally see him be fully himself, without having to constantly adjust or settle for whatever others decide is “enough” for him.

they have always had space and now even more to release their solo songs right? if jimins songs don't get chosen because it didn't fit the group which is something that is very common and that even solo artists go through when they are working on their own music alongside their managements and other producers..but he can always find a way to release what he worked on, on his own. yoongi hasn't been producing much of bts songs compared to namjoon, and those files are always there and he ended up using it on other occasions.

Input isn't only limited to writing and producing, jm has been have one of the biggest inputs in BTS whole career for years.

Being in a group comes with adjustments, i'll give u that. Finding the right synergy, all for a final big picture. If jimin still prioritize his position in the group, maybe just maybe it's time to understand his mindset and that again he set his priorities. At one point people got to understand that you can't keep fighting in place of someone else like all of this is nearing on victim complex. Also yall really so dramatic and love to speak and start disources before anything even happens.

[ivyminie]

Just because BTS had an amazing run doesn’t mean everything they do now is perfect. Some of their recent songs aren’t really that exciting, and acting like Jimin is totally thriving right now feels kinda off. Where’s the individuality you’re talking about? Because honestly, it’s not really there.

Jimin’s been pushed aside a lot over the years, and anyone paying attention can see it. If you’re okay with him staying quiet, having a small role, and being stuck in the same spot he’s been in forever, that’s fine. But don’t pretend everything’s great or that he’s getting to be his full self.

Its actually a normal thing to not like every single song the person you stan puts out, but you can still tell when songs are objectively good just not to your taste, and when its few singled out songs out of a whole discography but you paint a full picture over that. That goes for BTS and goes for jimin too. For example in chap2 there is some solo songs that didn't fit my taste out of what jimin put out but i'm not gonna act dramatic over that because i know whats the core of the artist and what they are capable of doing through other songs he released. A lot of BTS recent songs are actually really good songs take RUN BTS as an example but yall like to fixate on one song that doesn't fit your basic tastes and use that as an argument.

"and acting like Jimin is totally thriving right now feels kinda off, Where’s the individuality you’re talking about? Because honestly, it’s not really there." he's been here for only 3 weeks yall are genuinely insane like wdym by right now he hasn't even had the full chance to be home and in his bed for that long what are you talking about. He also clearly said in the live that he will be working on the group album as a next step and he said that they will try to contribute to that even more. It's not rocket science to understand that an artist can grow and have individuality within a group context as well, with what they add to the group and them shining in different aspect like jimin has been doing for YEARS, as he has always brought smth unique that sets him apart. If Jimin only had individuality as a soloist, then people wouldn’t have been drawn to him during his time in BTS. But they were because even in a group setting, his personality, emotion, and artistry came through clearly. Individuality doesn't mean isolation it means distinction, and again it can be expressed through a larger lens.

Like why is jimin only worth it in a solo context and not in another one. (and the same for those who would see his worth only in the group because i obviously don't think that)

"Jimin’s been pushed aside a lot over the years, and anyone paying attention can see it. If you’re okay with him staying quiet, having a small role, and being stuck in the same spot he’s been in forever, that’s fine. But don’t pretend everything’s great or that he’s getting to be his full self."

the staying quiet part is ??? are we talking about the same jimin? having a small role? main dancer lead singer jimin? he is not being himself??? yall are genuinely insane like did he tell you that? he literally said on suchwita again HIS words if u only listen that he is the most comfortable with the group and wants that comfort back. being stuck in the same spot? why exactly? because he wants to continue his career naturally just like any artist out there? yall are so used to the western example of groups and project groups like one directions or smth into BTS...why him continuing with BTS and thriving in it considered being stuck? and how does that make him less of an ambitious artist? (knowing that he can still experiment things on his own too btw no one is cancelling the possibility out) but why is being a member of a group not worthy.

Also since this is being brought up let me just get over this once and for all, because this constant narrative of jimin being pushed aside over the years is just factually incorrect and so over exagerated because AGAIN people love to hyper fixate on few songs and create a reality out of it. One i'm so done of the universe example being brought up as THEE ultimate truth for there being a plan against jm to side him in bts music, even ppl bringing dynamite or butter dont make sense to me like did we listen and watch the same songs? or are yall here counting down lines cz i'm not interested in that at all. Also many of you weren't here ig during bts debut years and albums cause all of those were actually rapline focused the same way ytc is, so again factually incorrect statement with the timeline you are pushing for. And for all the other recent examples the line distribution was still fair between the vocal line for songs that are more rap focused and jm did get a lot of killing parts/bridges part in a lot of the songs, in the BE songs for example. Yall love to be dramatic and create this image for jimin being sided in the past years since dynamite and then it goes into the next narrative of him becoming less popular. Same jimin who went viral in one of the groups last performances for RUN BTS in busan mind you.

And ultimately the crazy thing about all of this and pointing fingers at me or having rage fits over these narratives and perceptions you built is that YOU can't do anything about it, you can keep thinking jm is not himself jm is set back jm is better off if he leaves the group..at the end of the day jm will do what HE wants and you will just have to deal with it since you have a problem supporting all his choices clearly. Best option would be to just leave him alone imo, no one is forcing u to keep stanning someone whose decisions frustrate you and that you can't control based on what you want.

[ivyminie]

The way individuality is perceived only through such a limited lens, and that someone wanting to pursue music through a group is taken as an offense to some, as if growth including artistic one, musical contribution, success..aren't experienced through it as well. Like you tell someone jimin said his priority is the group *his words btw* and they'll call YOU the fake fan who is insinuating jimin has no ambition as an artist..like a whole new made up sentence. And the other problem too is you'd think, jimin is an nct member stuck with a group that makes construction noise music and not a once in a lifetime act with a big legacy and success and more of it to come and be experienced, and also a discography for its largest part thats rare to find even within western singers spaces and western producers and writers. Or that he is in a nugu flop group.

The notion of individuality and achievements are all still very existent and real within a group too and jimin has always been someone who understood that so well, and whose individuality shined the most. And it's like the day he would want to experience individuality in a different form he can do that too.

It's one thing to say that you want more jimin solo music when the time fits and when he wants to, but it's another to act like where he decides to be currently and even in the future is a horrible thing and a career killer. Also utlimately instead of doing all of this, some people need to just move to smth else, find a solo artist/puppet they can control and guide and that would satisfy every single one of the things they want and drew out for him. Win win situation for everyone.

[ivyminie]

the concept of coming at some armys when vibe a jimin collab got released because they were loud about not supporting it because of their years of fanwars with bigbangs fandom...only to use the same logic for what is also a collaborative work of jimin that he will put his hard work into, with the other members in what is also actually his group, a career he chose and something he is passionate about and has said so times and times again?

[ivyminie]

random take:

I personally think its hard to beat up an album worked on for a long period of time kind of from "scratch" to a certain extent ofc and usually when its not the case it's the product of received demos, not that there is smth inherently bad about that, i think it all depends on how the artist go about it and how much of their own print they put into the demos, from a writing..composing perspective and vocally. And the more they put their own lyrics they came up with, the better, i'm saying their own lyrics because god knows how many kpop acts out there (almost all of SM yg acts...) just translate the demo lyrics from english to korean word for word in few parts and call it a day. Also a lot of these western demos that are given to kpop artists are so lackluster, usually rejected ones by western artists and are not crafted specifically for the artist with the artists contribution where the producer knows the artists so well and what would suit them. There are actually some successful cases of songs that were already existent western demos for example in BTS case... because they added their print into it through poetic lyrics word plays that western songwriters can't do because of how bland english as a language is lol.

One of the worse cases of received western demos would be smth like golden, Twice's more and more when u compare it to the og by zara larson, even worse blackpinks discography, with teddy's contribution making it all even more mid.

[ivyminie]

What happen in chap 2 left some damage in the fandom obviously. I started as a bts fan but i'm not gonna lie i was always focused on Jimin even in chap 1, not because i hated the others, I was just not really interested in them. But bts as a group worked really well and i enjoyed their songs and performances.

So now i'm not going to pretend like the group is bad all of sudden. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they come up with.

But what's different now is that I have really mixed feelings about the other members that i didn't really had before. So that could influence my opinion of the cb but i hope it doesn't and i hope it's great. Because at the end of the day jimin is bts and i always wish for him to come up with something great as a group or as a solo artist.

Yeah i always thought that was inevitable when you go from a group context to a completely different context where you get to see so much more of each member and each one is put under an individual lens, it's also inevitable that you can't like all of the members all the same and you will get to see so many flaws that were "covered" within the group and through "a message for all" and "one vision for all" for music and other things and within the overall bts influence that is to me set more by some core members.

That's why i also think that a lot of them are better off in the group context and with just the right amount that is shown through that but also under the groups influence that they were used to *jk with jimin being a big noticeable example for me*. I also personally like the synergy created by the group in the group context whether it's from a music perspective and what each one of them brings vocally wise... or even overall dynamic wise. I mean it's also what i initially signed up for, for all these years and liked, there is a reason why i still listen to their discography and for now it feels like chap2 hasn't changed much from what i was used to, now i only need them to lock in for a well made album, and get that synergy back on stage too.

But overall i can understand people who can't come out of the "damage" of chap2, fandoms issues, whatever it is, it's just not my case and that's mooore than okay.

[ivyminie]

Muse was an album he did while probably knowing it will be released when he was enlisted. I think he knew it wouldn't be an album he'll get to promote or perform. People being upset about it are weird. He'll perform those songs when he'll go on tour.

People reacting like this are weird but the reactions i've seen from pjms have been great for the most part.

Making another album is going to take time, i don't know why some people were expecting the members or bts to release something as soon as they came back. It's not possible especially if we want something interesting.

I discover jimin as a bts member so i'm used to him being part of a group and I think a mojority of pjms are too. And i know he is going to shine in bts so i don't worry about that either. Obviously i'm more interested in his solo career but i don't mind him being in bts and what they said in their live sound promising so i hope it's great.

right like every song he made isn't going to trash just because he didn't perform it now or even ever. also why people putting a timer bomb on his head it's weird, like idk some really have self management issues and need to learn to manage their expectations too when it comes to other people they don't even know personally.

The whole aspect of wanting a rushed album tells me these people aren't in it for the music and the quality of it.

And same about BTS, getting jimin on a really well made project like what we have been getting through the bts discography, is smth that i find exciting, i'd love it even more if he contributes to the writing producing process or it combines him and lets say namjoon cause there is a good history of well made sounds and songs that fit jimin so well (serendipity being an example). I'm also here for him whenever he is inspired and wants to share smth on his own maybe more personal on a solo album. I'm really here for good music, jimins voice and jimin on stage in any shape or form.

[ivyminie]

You missed ot7 ? Well i can understand, for me I just enjoy jimin content but i don't mind seeing him with the members. Jimin is part of a group and I totally accept that so i'm still a little excited about bts cb, well obviously not as much as jimin cb.

i understand don't worry.

ppl acting like i spurted out the craziest shit ever??? i made this acc when chap2 started and shared my honest opinions as it was happening about each member and their solo eras, which btw i still stand by, because that was what was happening i also wondered if chap2 will change smth about my perception of the group and even posted about it and i just realized it didn't change anything. it's always been jimin and bts for me for 10years now, and people acting like someone who is into jimin AND jimins own group that he is still part of and clearly a context that he likes being in is an anomaly more than someone who wants him out is sooo backwards.

[ivyminie]

And when bts will disband and the other members will have a solo fandom....

Notice how even jin fandom is bigger, thanks all the promo performance and now the tour

But yes..if Jimin prefers to be with bts we can't do anything

The question is why he released Face and Muse if he doesn't want to perform his solo songs.

Bro being threatened by jin having more fans out of all the rest is one unserious thing.

Also why do yall act like 98% of all of us current jimin fans didn’t come from seeing him in the group context and werent exposed to the jimin greatness through that?

If bts were to ever disband or not, jimin attracts fans and will keep doing so because he is jimin no matter where and when.

For the last question, the ungrateful tone is really smth..like i would also love to see him perform many songs out of those albums but if he doesnt then i still realize he released those albums because he is a fucking artist who worked on his music and wanted to share it with us and left a piece of it while enlisted.

[ivyminie]

It's been so long since the last OT7 live that I had forgotten how obsessed the 6 of them are with Jimin, but it seems like they're even more now. I mean, if we feel the Jimin effect and his natural magnetism, it must be overwhelming for anyone around him. The members can't stop touching him, looking at him, catching his attention, laughing at what he says. Everything seems to gravitate towards him.

jimin the bts glue for real for real and i live for center jimin agenda. He just has this aura around him that is specific to him people who have him in their life are so lucky and should thank the universe at least three times a day.

[ivyminie]

So jin can be on tour promoting songs and focus on his solo career and jimin has to work for bts lol no Muse performance,.no pjm3 nothing

Yes you're army

girl what solo career..what promo..an unserious 3weeks tour yalls standards in the gutter.

the HAS to is quite funny lol take this with jimin personally like idk atp what to tell yall.

like if u wanna set his priorities and what he wants to do for him idk what to tell you..some of you just need to learn how to have self awareness that this is what YOU surely want and what YOU are mad about and leave jimin alone.