#I also saw Minish Cap and the Four Swords games as being in their own continuity

[emuanon34]

This is a hard pill to swallow but I think we should start accepting that the Zelda franchise is episodic and does not have serialized storytelling except for direct sequels.

[rawliverandgoronspice]

TLOZ translations always seem to be a bit shitty. I still see people talk about the weird translation of the Demise monologue at the end of SkSw. I think someone said that Demise was more general with his statement, as in there will always be forces from the demon tribe fighting against the light or smth? Not specifically "us three will always fight". (I've read it a few times, but hard to remember, sorry.) (On the topic of SkSw, I kinda dislike how much it impacted theories within TLOZ, some theories are really cool, don't get me wrong. But now, even games that existed for years before suddenly are being pushed to fit with the lore presented in that game. Ganondorf being the best example: He no longer is his own character who did bad things because of his own will and actions, it's now "He did it all because an evil curse made him do it. He had no choice, he was born as a vessel for the demonic lord." The implications that "the curse of Demise" also would mainly go for the already vilified race of the Gerudo, and make their one male an evil warlord is already kinda... yeah... no. (Not to mention that there are other demon lords throughout the franchise that have nothing to do with Ganon.)

Ohh speaking of this I recently saw this post that did a good translation of that very moment, and pretty much confirms what you are mentioning anon; that it's basically a promise of that cycle coming back moreso than Demise himself coming back (especially since his actual and definitive death is a big deal in that game).

But yeah, I agree it has taken a huge space in the way the series is thought about. I pretty much completely missed that hard turn, as I couldn't play Skyward Sword when it released and wasn't super into Zelda afterward anymore (I had gotten too edgy.... 2011 was the year where I got obsessed with every horror videogame in existence basically except for Resident Evil for some reason I could never get into that series ANYWAY WAY off topic........), so coming back a few years later had me very ???? puzzled about how the theories had reconstructed themselves around Hylia and Demise and endless cycles (it's not that it wasn't a thing before, but I wouldn't say it was as much a Series Trademark as it is now).

But yeah. Ganondorf having his own motivations makes him immediately stronger as an antagonist, especially since his deal is quite complicated all things considered.

I am having a thought about how a lot of Zelda villains' motivation is a sort of rebellion against nature. I have scratched enough digital paper about Ganondorf's situation, but like... Minish Cap Vaati is also very much motivated by his refusal to remain small and whimsical and seize power instead of staying in his lane (and then he gets horny in Four Sword so, maybe let's not go there), Zant is.... Zant, Hilda in A Link Between World has been cosmically punished for trying to reject the Goddesses and create a world on its own terms --like SERIOUSLY this is HORRIFYING I feel like we don't talk enough about how utterly nightmarish of a reality that paints for Hyrule as a whole-- Girahim is devoted but fights for the side more or less destined to lose... It's interesting how Hyrule is hostile to change and anything that threatens the statut quo.

(then you have the occasional Majora and Yuga, whomst I dooon't think really fit the above category --to their full credit! and then you have Bellum, who is..... a blob...... And I don't remember enough from either the Oracles game or about Malladus to put them in either category, I need to replay those games)

Hyrule really has this frightening quality to it when you stare at it for too long: that your two only options are to either graciously submit to your assigned cosmic role, or fight it and become darkness incarnate in some way. A Link Between World showed, quite starkly, that trying to escape that binary choice is *not an option*.

[cyphyra]

yknow i saw a video the other day that went into remaking the whole zelda timeline to include the timeline split that very much should have happened in SS-- at the end of SS, in his own present, Link wishes for Demise's destruction, which is done, no curse on Link or Zelda is placed, and that's one timeline the other happens when Link saves Zelda in the past, killing Demise, but being cursed in that timeline for the blood of the goddess and spirit of the hero to be eternally reborn. that past is now a new future where the goddess sword is never needed, as the evil is already destroyed, yet the curse remains, which leads into minish cap and all that follows, the goddess sword given as a gift and renamed the picori blade, it's origin lost, but remade into the four sword to beat vaati. with resurrection after resurrection, the power of the four sword wanes, and the nature of it as a symbol of hope restores the name of the Master Sword, leading to ALttP, LA, the Oracle games, and ALBW (like, the MS design in official art of ALttP even looks like the four sword. cmon now. i know alttp came first but it's enough of a thread)

if this timeline split happened in SS, it completely negates the need for the stupid "what if" of link dying in OoT and also pretty neatly ties everything together bc people have been wondering about the paradoxical nature of SS's ending for a long while now

tl;dr: zelda fans should come together as a community to make an "unofficial" timeline that's actually correct and not whatever nintendo thinks they're doing with it.

[hyruviandoctor]

Zelda Asks

I was asked by @neko-otaku13 to do those Zelda asks that are going around, except she said to do all of them. So here you go, you monster.

Legend of Zelda - Favorite console game? I know it’s kind of the popular thing to say right now, but I think I have to go with Breath of the Wild. It used to be Ocarina of Time just because I’ve spent so much time playing around in that world, but Breath of the Wild just has so much to do and see. The dungeons aren’t very impressive, the final boss was too easy, and I wish there was just a bit more story (a few more memories would be nice), but the game itself is just so much fun.

Adventure of Link - Favorite character (in any game)? Always Zelda. But if I have to pick someone else I think I’d say that Groose might be my favorite. He’s so absurd, but he ends up being such a good guy. Also that whole scene where he follows Link to the surface just kills me.

A Link to the Past - Favorite place (in any game)? I really like Romani Ranch from Majora’s mask because it feels like what they might have originally wanted Lon Lon Ranch to be like. I also really like the Akkala Region in Breath of the Wild, but that’s mostly because I really like the colors and the ruins found around there (including the Earth Spring from Skyward Sword).

Link’s Awakening - Favorite Link? I really like the Link in Breath of the Wild, but I also really like Link in Ocarina/Majora and in Twilight Princess. Basically I like when Link is clearly a dork but is also fairly grown-up, because it gives him a lot of character and makes him more relatable.

Ocarina of Time - Favorite Zelda song? If I had to choose just one, I’d have to say the Ballad of the Goddess from Skyward Sword. It’s an amazing song on its own, and the fact that it has Zelda’s lullaby backwards inside of it is just incredible. Close seconds are Chancellor Cole’s Theme from Spirit Tracks, the main theme/trailer theme from Breath of the Wild, Zelda’s Lullaby, and Molgera’s Battle Theme from Wind Waker.

Majora’s Mask - Favorite mask? Oh geeze, probably the Goron Mask. I like rollin around at the speed of sound, killing dudes with spikes. Also I just think the design looks really cool. I’ve always liked the Gorons (even though BotW really disappointed me there for the most part), so I really enjoyed getting to play as one. Although I just remembered the Fierce Deity mask and I absolutely love his design and am deeply intrigued by the lore behind him (and the fact that we know almost nothing about him).

Wind Waker - Favorite boss? I really like the final Ganondorf fight in Twilight Princess. All the stages were really intense and exciting, and it really felt like you were fighting to save the world from destruction. If we’re talking about regular bosses I might have to say Molgera from Wind Waker, but that might be mainly because the music during that fight is freaking amazing.

Four Swords - Favorite handheld game? SPIRIT TRACKS. SPIRIT TRACKS IS THE BEST HANDHELD ZELDA AND I WILL FIGHT ANYONE WHO DISAGREES (although I also deeply adore Minish Cap). I actually was really upset when I first saw the announcement trailer because “Trains don’t belong in Zelda!” but boy was I wrong about that. I love pretty much everything about Spirit Tracks, especially the story and how involved and developed Zelda is (one of the best Zeldas in the series for sure). I love the music too and I think it’s the only handheld Zelda that I listen to the soundtrack of. It’s been a while since I’ve played it, so I’m sure I’m only remembering the good, but I still love it and I love that it sort of completes the Wind Waker saga. I definitely recommend you play it if you haven’t already!

Twilight Princess - Favorite companion? I like Fi and Navi, but I might have to say Midna because she’s the most developed companion character and she’s amazing. But if I can pick Spirit Tracks Zelda, I pick her because she’s fantastic.

Phantom Hourglass - Least favorite game? You know, this one almost seems like destiny. It’s been a long time so I may be just remembering the bad parts, and I remember having a lot of fun and spending a lot of time with it, but Phantom Hourglass is currently my least favorite Zelda. My issues with it are basically the ones everyone has with it: The Temple of the Ocean King is tedious, nothing about it really stands out as stellar, and I’m not a huge fan of the whole “it was all a dream” kind of deal. I need to play it again so I can give it another shot, but for now it’s my least favorite. It’s a decent game, but it’s not a good Zelda game.

Spirit Tracks - Favorite Zelda? Either Spirit Tracks Zelda or Breath of the Wild Zelda. Spirit Tracks really gave Zelda a lot of character and did a lot to make her interesting AND useful, and you really get a sense of her struggle for the first time in a Zelda game. Breath of the Wild made Zelda super interesting and made her a really well developed character. Breath of the Wild also gave us a Zelda that was very relatable and very easy to empathize with. I think Breath of the Wild’s Zelda is the video game character I’ve most personally identified with, so I might have to go with her.

Skyward Sword - Favorite Zelda item? Oh geeze, maybe the Spirit Flute from Spirit Tracks? I thought that was a cool way to do an instrument and I like how it sounds. I really like the clawshots from Twilight Princess, too. This one’s hard because there have been so many good items.

Link Between Worlds - First game I played? I’m pretty sure it was Ocarina of Time. It was definitely the Zelda Collection that came with my gamecube, but since it had four games on it I can’t remember which was the first I played. Ocarina was definitely the first one I played all the way through though, and I absolutely love that game.

Tri Force Heroes - Least favorite dungeon? Probably the Divine Beasts; they were neat, but too short and too samey. I understand why, but it was still a little disappointing. Outside of Breath of the Wild, I’d have to say my least favorite dungeon is probably the Great Bay Temple in Majora’s Mask. It’s interesting, but I don’t remember enjoying it much at all.

Breath of the Wild - Favorite champion/new champion? Urbosa, hands-down. She seems like the one you’d actually want to hang out with because she’s super chill, but she’s also the mom friend who will make sure you don’t die or do anything too overly stupid. Out of the new champions I guess I’d have to say Riju. She got the most character development and seems like she’d be a good friend to have. I guess I just like the Gerudo in general, but they also seem to have gotten the most attention when it comes to characterization.

[darkwhenmilked]

How about Zelda? Or any girl from the series.

Time for a speed round! Every Zelda from the series

The Legend of Zelda

Simple design, nice poofy hair, cute but not very memorable. Prototype design at best. Next to no character. 6/10

A Link to the Past

Much more thought out design, more iconic. Nice use of hair to frame face, simple yet consistent color pallet, the pink is a little garish. Not much screen time. 6.5/10

Ocarina of Time

Nice young maiden, good design, sad we don’t see much of her hair, but the do-rag is neat. The choice of pinkish-purpleish here is a little garish still. No tomboy show on screen 5.5/10

Grown fair princess captured well here. The pink from her younger self fits better with a deeper purple to contrast. Has a very royal air to her. Representin’ Hyrule for sure. Sheik is also pretty darn cool. No wonder she became the template for future designs! 7/10

Oracle Saga

Litttle cutey patootie. Simplified design from OoT, but still pleasing. Soft pastel color pallet gives a very warm, kind feel. Not much character tho. 6.5-soft 7/10

Four Swords

Apha-Wind Waker Zelda. Cute but didn’t make the cut. Further simplified design that’s still good. Unfortunately, there is a obvious ‘not-Zelda’ about her. It comes from the hair most, orange and tied back just wasn’t working for her. No real character. 6.5/10

Wind Waker

Tetra is best girl. Skin tone change is a bit disappointing, but I don’t dislike or anything, still a cute kid. Love the hair she has, blonde works much better than orange. The makeup is an interesting touch, guess to help her contrast with Tetra’s more tomboy personality. Wish we saw more with her. Nice color pallet. 8.5-9/10. Minish Cap gets the same score, happy to see her get more of a speaking role as the games progress since OoT.

Twilight Princess

Nice reimagining of her old outfit from OoT. Feels the most regal of them all. Really stands out at the brunette of the Zeldas. Total royal badass. 9/10

Spirit Tracks

Same as her grandmother, but with her own personality and attitude, very take charge. 8.5/10

Need I say anything? 10/10

Skyward Sword

Nice, cute, airheaded Zelda. Good friend, cutie-pie girlfriend. Comfirmed Canon Waifu. Good, simple design, not really a princess, so being regal doesn’t matter too much. Like her bang tape. 8/10 

Link Between Worlds

Nice, kind Zelda. Tries her best. Very caring, princess like. Somewhat regal, but mostly down to earth. Light, airy color pallet. 8/10

Goth Zelda. 10/10

Breath of the Wild

Without spoiling to much for myself, this Zelda needs a hug tbh. More of an advernturer than princess, which is A-ok! Her design fits her as a traveler with a regal background. Nice hair, like the thicker eyebrows on her. Speaking of thick

Mmm-mmm-mmhp. 10/10. Best Zelda. Yoga pants? Best Zelda. 10/10

Feel Free to request more anime/-ish girls, or even some that aren’t, for me to critique!