#I also love the other side that Clive sees cid as a replacement for his father hence why he attaches and respects him so quickly

[kayayeteae]

Isn’t it a cool parallel that Clive offers the dropped Apple to a bearer to signify that they are worth the kindness that the cruel world doesn’t provide to them—which was ultimately a reflection of his fathers beliefs…

Only to have Cid extend the same kindness by offering an apple to Clive as a marked bearer.

ISNT IT COOL IN BOTH SITUATIONS CLIVE AND THE BEARER SEEM TO FEEL HESITANT AND UNDESERVING ABOUT RECEIVING SUCH KINDNESS.

[poisonheart]

It’s been several days since I finished FFXVI and I gave myself time to process those emotions, but I still don’t like the ending. The more I watch people play through that conclusion, the clearer my reasons become. To me, Clive was never free.

He was his mother's disappointment (and treated like a bastard just because he failed to "awaken"), his brother's shield (I loved their bond but it was still a big responsibility for a child), a slave assassin to a foreign kingdom, Cid's replacement, the person people placed their faith on in the absence of a savior while being wanted/hunted as a vessel by a selfish god who only cared about self-preservation.

In the end, after having so much taken from him and giving so much of himself, he had to lose everything to birth a new, better world.

And I get it. Intellectually, I understand and can even see the "beauty" in the tragedy of it all. I know what had to be done and I know he was always that kind of guy—willing to give himself up for a better cause.

Emotionally, I disliked it. I always do. In the end, he didn't escape the whole "being Child of Fate" thing.

Joshua shouldn't have died.

Dion shouldn't have died.

Clive shouldn't have felt like he needed to die to bring happiness to everyone but himself.

I know it's implied he survived despite seemingly calcifying at the end. He was given a quill and suggested to abandon the sword for that quill—to become a writer when it was all over. And you see a book after the credits written by "Joshua Rosfield."

Again, taking up someone else's name, having their legacy live on. I get it was a cute, meaningful gesture—if it was Clive who wrote it because Joshua didn't survive, but he could never just be "Clive." He was always someone else, something else. Not just Clive. I wanted him to live as Clive Rosfield.

I know the ending was ambiguous to leave the door open for DLC's. I mean, Clive "healed" Joshua after consuming the powers of god with all the creation magic that came with it. We can assume, if we want, that Joshua does make it too. Maybe he's the one who becomes the writer because Clive was too busy being a farmer or something.

Maybe Dion survived too.

Maybe when Clive "healed" and "birthed" this new world, or whatever actually happened there, those people in the vicinity were restored.

[And maybe none of them lived and DLCs are about the past of the characters in those 13 years after the intro... or they'll give Jill a little Clive baby who is also tasked with living up to his father's legacy...]

Don't get me started on how Dion deserved better. Especially if you do the quests before the finale—that shit hurts. Clive was given time and a support system to overcome his guilt over "killing Joshua" but Dion never had that. He was only allowed to find absolution in death. He should have lived a long life—repairing his kingdom, raising that little girl who saved his life with his boyfriend, and being happy.

Maybe on the other side we didn't see, in some DLC, they did live happily ever after.

But it wouldn't change how punishing the finale felt.

Jill said Clive always wanted to save everyone, but never thought to save himself, and even at the very end he didn’t.

He could never rid himself of his fate as some divine plot device. 

I get that it is heroic and noble to give up oneself for those you love and the world they'll be left in. That undoing the horrible suffering we saw was indeed an act of love, but I personally dislike this trope.

It's a personal bias of mine when a hero needs to die to achieve a greater good, leaving behind people who want them to live because they too deserve a slice of the happiness pie.

Clive spent his life juggling duty, guilt, promises, dreams while being stalked by a god hell-bent on destroying his life to break down his will and take over his body (Ultima, you had tits too, so why?) and yet he was still chained to his fate of becoming a sacrificial lamb.

The only difference was the outcome.

One option ensured everyone/the world perished.

The other option ensured the everyone/the world didn't perish.

He just couldn't escape being bitch slapped no matter what.

I know that it's poetic to show how different he is from Ultima who didn't care about anyone, hijacked a planet because his was dead, and created people for the sole purpose of saving himself through them someday.

Clive had to be the opposite.

Had to be willing to die for a better world.

Prove to Ultima who was floating in the lifestream that selfless love was better than self-love.

I get it. I get the themes, but I don't have to enjoy them.

This was also my problem in FFXIV with the Warrior of Light's ties to a past that chased them all the way to their reincarnation(s), but that's another story.

I felt the story punished Clive for existing.

I didn't feel liberated by the ending.

The vagueness of it didn't satisfy me.

He had a miserable fate from beginning to end.

Even if Clive is alive, happy, and free in some future DLC chapter, that hint of disappointment will stay with me. Because they said the ending was meant to stand on its own.

I know that a story isn't good because it has a happy ending, but I can't think of a cast of characters who deserved a sappy end more than this one, especially a protagonist who was seemingly born under the worst possible star (fate).

I didn't want the conclusion to be left up to interpretation.

Overall, I still liked the journey, I enjoyed playing it, loved the cast, and especially enjoyed the combat—which I wasn't expecting—but I can understand why so many people turned to fanfics.

It's the only way to cope now.

[bl1ghtd]

on  the  subject  of  relationships  ,  benedikta  has  a  very  warped  view  on  them  ,  the  older  she  gets  to  be  completely  honest .  she  honestly  does  not  believe  she  has  the  ability  to  be  in  an  actual  relationship  (  at  least  as  something  that's  not  been  born  out  of  a  necessity  /  a  way  to  gain  an  advantage  ) . i'm  gonna  kinda  go  over  relationships  in  general  +  her  relationship  with  cid  ,  hugo  ,  &  barnabas  at  a  quick  glance  *.

*  as  a  quick  note  this  is  just  personally  how  i  see  their  relationships  from  my  portrayal  of  benedikta. i  don't  wanna  push  any  sort  of  dynamic  onto  my  roleplay  partners  so  none  of  this  has  to  apply  to  a  dynamic  if  we  write  it  in  the  future  ,  this  is  kinda  of  just  my  baseline  for  her  muse  &  her  feelings.

benedikta's  relationships  /  dynamics  at  a  quick  glance  :

benedikta  has  very  few  relationships  she's  experienced  that  could  be  considered  "healthy"  or  true  relationships .  a  lot  of  her  more  romantically  inclined  dynamics  with  people  are  built  on  a  more  transactional  basis  ,  especially  the  older  she's  gotten .  she  even  has  a  habit  of  building  interactions  based  on  the  fact  that  she  offers  that  she  can  give  someone  pleasure  (  in  reference  to  her  line  to  clive  before  their  fight  at  the  chapel  :  "if  it  is  a  hearth  you  long  for,  you  will  find  more  than  enough  warmth  beneath  my  wings."  )  ,  this  line  is  following  her  essentially  complimenting  clive  &  even  asking  why  he  has  slotted  himself  with  "undesirables"  ,  it's  pretty  clear  she's  trying  to  offer  him  a  spot  over  to  her  side  or  at  least  trying  to  gain  some  favor  with  him  through  flattery  &  a  hint  towards  even  sleeping  with  clive  if  he  wished .  a  big  part  of  this  is  her  fear  of  being  replaced  (  or  even  killed  )  due  to  not  having  any  use  to  anyone .  benedikta  wants  to  cement  herself  as  someone  irreplaceable  ,  someone  who  cannot  be  used  as  cannon  fodder  or  thrown  away  at  the  drop  of  a  hat .  part  of  this  ties  into  her  childhood  where  she  was  thrown  away  by  her  birth  family  to  a  wealthier  family  for  their  own  gain  &  then  how  she  was  treated  +  eventually  nearly  killed  for  something  she  didn't  even  do .  upon  being  rescued  by  cidolfus  &  then  joining  him  in  his  travels  she  found  comfort  at  always  being  wanted  +  needed  there .  benedikta  has  had  a  heavy  dependence  on  garuda  +  her  "sisters"  (  as  she  calls  them  )  because  they  cannot  abandon  her .  they  give  her  company  even  in  her  loneliest  moments  &  they've  given  her  a  place  at  barnabas's  side  and  even  among  her  other  intelligencers .  she  loves  them  above  all  else  &  that  is  why  losing  garuda  absolutely  shatters  her  ,  because  not  only  has  she  effectively  lost  everything  without  garuda  but  she  also  would  now  be  alone  again  with  no  one  or  anything .

benedikta's  relationship  /  dynamic  with  hugo  :

benedikta's  relationship  with  hugo  kupka  is  entirely  transactionally  based  on  her  end  ,  whereas  on  his  end  he  seems  to  harbor  romantic  feelings  for  her  (  that  at  times  can  border  on  obsessive-like  behaviors  ) .  benedikta  doesn't  have  an  inherent  dislike  towards  hugo  anymore  (  as  she  did  when  they  first  came  into  contact  with  each  other  )  ,  but  it's  simply  because  he  is  of  use  to  her  that  she  bothers  to  continue  their  relationship  +  contact  with  each  other .  she  approached  him  with  the  whole  premise  of  gaining  his  trust  so  he  could  be  of  use  to  her  (  more  importantly  to  the  kingdom  of  waloed  &  barnabas  ) .  she  endures  his  touch  ,  attitude  ,  &  ego  for  the  simple  fact  that  it  is  her  job  to  do  so  (  and  this  is  made  even  more  clear  after  she  mockingly  repeats  his  words  after  he  is  unable  to  defeat  shiva  ) .

benedikta's  relationship  /  dynamic  with  barnabas  :

i  believe  that  in  a  sort  of  way  ,  benedikta  holds  an  amount  of  love  (  or  something  akin  to  love  /  affection  )  towards  barnabas  but  i  imagine  their  relationship  probably  started  as  something  she  saw  as  an  opportunity  to  try  and  keep  herself  safe .  as  i  stated  in  the  first  section  she  has  a  great  fear  of  being  alone  &  but  also  of  simply  being  cast  to  the  side  so  in  building  a  connection  between  herself  physically  to  barnabas  she  honestly  hoped  to  ensure  her  spot  beside  him .  coming  to  care  for  him  ,  however  ,  was  easier  than  she  expected  &  honestly  happened  over  time .  in  some  sense  ,  she'd  always  had  a  fondness  for  barnabas  ,  after  all  ,  he'd  given  her  the  surname  she  has  (  &  clings  to  so  much  ) .  she  wanted  to  protect  him  ,  she  wanted  to  do  anything  he  wished  ━  to  be  of  use  to  him  in  any  way  she  could  be  because  he  saw  her  ,  more  so  than  any  other  person  she'd  ever  been  in  service  of  before .  that  was  something  that'd  always  stuck  with  her  &  honestly  once  cidolfus  left  waloed  &  abandoned  her  without  so  much  as  a  word  ,  her  loyalty  to  &  affection  for  barnabas  only  seemed  to  deepen .  he  had  not  abandoned  her  ,  he  was  still  there  &  he  would  always  be  there .  there  is  a  part  of  her  that  doubts  her  affections  are  returned  ,  but  honestly  ,  she  cannot  find  it  in  herself  to  really  care  about  petty  things  like  that .  i  think  benedikta  truly  loathes  that  she  cares  for  barnabas  in  any  way  other  than  a  subject  would  a  king  because  she  knows  that  her  duty  comes  first .  it  always  comes  before  anything  else  ━  before  her  ,  her  feelings  ,  or  overall  well-being  just  as  it  always  has  &  will .  when  it  came  down  to  it  ,  she  would  tear  herself  apart  to  fit  any  form  he  wished  of  her  because  he  was  all  she  really  had  outside  of  garuda  (  and  she  is  very  aware  she'd  only  gotten  so  far  because  of  having  her  eikon  ) .

benedikta's  relationship  /  dynamic  with  cidolfus  :

with  cidolfus  her  relationship  is  a  bit  complicated  because  in  the  beginning  she  honestly  saw  him  as  more  of  a  savior  figure  than  anything .  the  more  they  traveled  together  &  fought  side  by  side  ,  getting  to  know  each  other  &  building  more  mutual  trust  between  the  two  of  them  the  more  i  think  their  relationship  developed .  it's  even  said  that  when  benedikta  &  cid  showed  up  in  waloed  together  they  were  hand  in  hand .  i  imagine  they  were  still  close  during  much  of  their  time  working  for  barnabas  ,  at  least  until  benedikta  started  her  relationship  with  hugo .  i  don't  think  it  was  because  of  the  type  of  relationship  or  the  acts  that  she  had  to  do  because  of  the  relationship  but  more  so  because  she  often  isolated  herself  after  her  visits  with  hugo .  she'd  do  her  duties  and  then  report  if  barnabas  wished  to  know  of  her  progress  but  outside  of  that  she  often  cut  off  those  around  her .  as  stated  in  this  headcanon  post  ,  benedikta  was  very  much  against  using  her  body  to  her  advantage  /  to  get  the  upper  hand  at  the  beginning  &  she  was  often  disgusted  with  herself  for  the  things  she  did .  the  shame  was  something  that  ate  at  her  for  a  good  couple  of  years  &  honestly  ,  she  has  long  since  buried  it  in  her  psyche .  i  feel  like  as  she  began  to  develop  more  manipulative  &  deceptive  behaviors  the  more  she  and  cid  grew  apart .  and  despite  growing  apart  she  still  cared  deeply  for  him  ,  loved  him  even  ,  but  as  she  saw  it  her  duty  came  before  all  ,  after  all  ,  her  duty  was  all  that  she  had  driving  her  motivation .  when  cid  left  it  started  a  spiral  in  benedikta's  mind  ,  she'd  gotten  comfortable  with  her  life  in  waloed  &  him  leaving  her  +  the  service  of  barnabas  without  so  much  a  word  to  her  as  to  why  ,  she  felt  betrayed .  this  betrayal  sits  heavily  on  her  mind  for  years  to  come  ,  even  in-game  (  six  years  after  he  left  )  it  is  still  a  very  sore  subject  for  her  but  the  hurt  has  morphed  itself  into  anger  &  rage .  benedikta  also  resents  that  cid  often  brings  up  their  relationship  &  how  much  she's  changed  since  getting  closer  to  barnabas  because  she's  had  to  change  in  order  to  survive  the  position  she's  been  put  into .  it  is  not  something  she  did  willingly  or  that  was  painless  for  her  ,  she  lost  all  semblance  of  who  she  used  to  be  &  tells  herself  that  it  was  for  the  best .  even  to  the  end  though  ,  she  harbors  some  love  cid  ,  even  if  she  so  adamantly  tells  herself  &  everyone  else  around  her  differently .  and  before  she  truly  loses  herself  to  the  rage  that  comes  with  priming  into  garuda  ,  the  last  face  she  truly  thinks  of  is  cidolfus'  because  inside  ,  deep  down  beneath  all  the  facades  &  anger  &  hurt  she  is  still  the  scared  girl  she  was  when  they  first  met  ,  hoping  that  one  day  she  can  truly  find  the  home  &  happiness  she  felt  traveling  with  him .