#I GUESS MAYBE WE'RE NOT GETTING QUEERBAITED

[astro-nautics]

.

[sexy-sapphic-sorcerer]

some iconic quotes from the podcast 'bait' about merthur

"if we're taking queerbaiting as representation, which we are, Morgana is a much better queer figure than Merlin is"

"Merlin's whole thing is 'if I stay closeted long enough and keep on supporting my oppressor, then maybe, maaaybe one day his son will love me'"

"the show ends with Merlin living in the present day still waiting for Arthur to rise again and maybe fuck him this time"

"because he's immortal, Merlin could have called the cops on Stonewall"

"Merlin in the present day is probably some Arthurian scholar and is absolutely insufferable" "writing really erotic�� have you ever read an academic essay by someone who wants to fuck the historical figure they're talking about? that's what Merlin is doing"

"my favourite merthur fanfic trope is Uther will consistently be like, 'Arthur it's ok that you're having sex with a man because at least you're not going to get any bastards but you can't have sex with a sorcerer'. like, no it's the same thing! you don't understand the show you're watching"

"Arthur is like 'if you're a sorcerer Merlin, I guess that's okay, I just don't believe your kind should have rights'. he's one of those people that's like 'it's fine if you're a homosexual but I still think it's a sin'"

[funnyscienceman]

look s2 was ass and i hate ori in a pod and dictator cait shouldve been explored more and so much and so much theres so much wrong with it, the writers were ass, i fucking hate riot, never trust that company for anything ever, AND ALSO jayvik makes me fucking cry man. i was so deadfaced for most of act 3 (aside from bursting into laughter when it got so absurd i felt like i was losing my sanity) but then they started throwing the fucking flashbacks to s1 at you and there was viktor being himself again, happy and funny and him and jayce nerding out over science magic whateverthefuck, and jayce said "all i want is my partner back," and externally i was like slack-jawed, blinking, shocked. like wait really? we're getting a fucking she-ra ending? this couldve been built up to so much better this is coming from fucking nowhere but really?? jayvik is back it's fucking back it's real??!?!??

and it was so overwhelming. internally i couldve been bursting into fucking tears. im still reeling over it more than a week later, like. is this what it felt like when tfgraves finally got to have their thing in pride 2022? people are saying jayce and viktor died in that explosion and maybe, maybe not, but that didn't feel sad to me. i guess it could be, it's impossible for me to take s2 seriously from a storytelling standpoint, but this isn't about that. like. two guys choosing each other over everything and everyone else. the sheer fucking devotion between them that toed the line of text and subtext since season fucking one. it's right there, on full display, center stage, and this is the actual culmination of the story i guess. wasnt set up at all this cast was way too bloated for its own good, but the fact that it exists. the fact that it's been brought to the forefront, they are FORCING YOU to talk about it. that one showrunner fucking lost his marbles on twitter because it was so hard to ignore, because the love there was just so unabashed and shameless and visible

I'm. I dunno. This is dredging up a lot of old feelings of loneliness being a trans gay man feeling like an outsider looking in to the queer community. It's a lot. And it's like conflicting so much with how ass arcane handled both its queers and poc, like as much as i love jayvik i also haaaate how mel and sky got fucking shafted, like did you have to do it like that??? and idk how much of the jayvik ending itself is queerbaiting or crumbs or whatever — if it is at all, idk, im not a philosopher or analyst in that regard — but. i just dont know if i've ever felt so seen. is that even the word for it??? maybe my feelings are just all over the place because it's so fresh? my feelings could change, i dunno. i still dont feel like rewatching s2 in full, all the way through, because it was such a slog and it disrespected 99% of the characters so hard, viktor included (singed got out mostly unscathed and i still consider that a christmas miracle) the most i can handle are individual clips and thinking about jayce and viktor doing like a reverse Weathering With You in that magic space stuff was… what the fuck man. i'm breaking. i'm falling apart.

(throwback to this one thing i doodled aaages and ages ago hdmdhdndnc)

idk. i dunno if any of this made any sense. im like rambling into the void rn. um. sorry this is a mess 👍

[stardustmuncher]

get to know me!!

okay, wow. guess who has not expected their art to get any attention at all, let alone even incoming requests for art. i apologize if i haven't done ur request yet btw, i've been awfully busy!

however, since i am getting traction and my bday is today (yippi to me, even tho my age is now much too serious) i think its appropriate for me to do a bit of an introduction post..

so without further ado, i present t you...

ME!

hello!! my name is aj, aka stardustmuncher we're being all official with name tags and stuff

i'm bi and use any pronouns! like, fr, any pronouns. get creative guys.

i like to think of myself as somewhat of an artist. i wanna study animation one day, so that's pretty cool i guess.

i'm american, not proudly but i'm still surviving.

also, i'm a total band kid. i'm apart of my school's percussion ensemble, which is neat. it's pretty cool, i suppose.

some of my other hobbies include:

attending drama club like the nerd i am

writing for my school paper

listening to music

sleeping a bunch

hanging out with my friends and being idiots

baking

fashion. (i'm a huge fashion nerd..)

i'm an artist, sure. which means i'm in a lot of communities, i guess. my fandoms consist of:

the owl house (proudly a goldric shipper)

gravity falls

five nights at freddy's

mouthwashing

sally face

don't hug me i'm scared

hamilton

heathers the musical

mean girls

class of 09

helluva boss/hazbin hotel

the spiderverse series

nimona

miraculous

tim burton films

the amazing digital circus

i also LOVE my music, like a bunch.

some of my favorite artists are:

tv girl

chappell roan

olivia rodrigo

mitski

the moldy peaches

tyler the creator

lil peep

dazey and the scouts

laufey

adrienne lenker

pinkpanthersss

madilyn mei

now... my favorite songs.

anyone else but you by the moldy peaches

do the act like you've never met me by tv girl

nuts by lil peep

prom queen by beach bunny

kiss her you fool by kids that fly

break it off by pinkpanthersss

before he cheats by carrie underwood

good luck babe by chappell roan

hot to go by chappell roan

not allowed by tv girl

hate yourself by tv girl

now.. just some fun facts abt me!!

for no particular reason, i am cross-eyed. like i js came out this way idk??

i wear the same barbie pants like every other week. i love these pants.

honestly i prefer chocolate over fruity flavors, they're js better

always looking for more music recommendations, hmu if you got smth good

dms are always open if you need to vent :D or if you just want someone to yap ur interests to, either way

also art requests r always open. i will draw it like one day or smth but ive been busy.. maybe this next week ill draw again

big stuffed animal fan, i sleep with the same three everynight

i have a guinea pig named amity, yes after the toh character

i also have a fish named mr blubs

and two dogs and two cats, i love my pets so much

also i love queer stuff, im way too easy to queerbait i fear

always open to friends and mutuals, just ask!! <3

some of my fav youtubers r louis mcclung, chadchad, drama mama/benoftheweek, drama kween and heather grayce

thanks for reading this total yap session, hopes this helps the people of the tumblr site to know who i am!!

much love,

aj (stardustmuncher) !!

[frasier-crane-style]

Twisters

Not much to say about this. The original was a definitive three-star movie, and this one doesn't really go up or down. It's maybe half a star worse because the effects are ironically less convincingly; in the original, they drove through a real house! Here, while the CGI may be better, it's clear that's pretty much all they're doing. It'd be nice to see something beyond rain machines and greenscreen.

It's also a prime example of Everyone Is Perfect And Nobody's Horny. Bill Paxton in the original might've been handsome, but he wasn't a zero-percent-body-fat heartthrob. Here, as in the Roadhouse reboot, every single character from hero to villain to sidekicks looks like the lead of a CW show. It just goes to show we're really cooked as far as character actors go. Twister Singular had Alan Ruck and Philip Seymour Hoffman as eccentric storm chasers. Twister Plural has sexpot Katy O'Brian.

But hey, she has boyishly short hair! There's no way she's conventionally attractive!

There's another girl who smiles in a way that makes it seem like she doesn't have teeth, but that's it. She really does have teeth (perfectly white and straight, natch). But they talk with Southern accents and say 'woo!' a lot, so I guess they really are a ragtag bunch of misfits.

And Roadhouse Rebooted at least had an actual romance. This movie has the oddest love story where they go through all the motions of a romance--he teases her, she teases him, they start spending time together, gazing fondly at each other, saving each other's lives, climaxing in Glen Powell running through an airport to stop Tornado Lady (she has one of those British names with extra surnames) before she can get on her plane... so he can stare warmly into her eyes.

What is this, are the gays getting revenge for queerbaiting? Because they know that's all in their heads, right? Hollywood just sometimes makes movies about two guys who are friends despite both of them being handsome.

And I know you're going to say hurgle burgle Fury Road men and women can just be friends! Yeah, but you don't have to write them in the most overt love story imaginable and then go "Oh, but they don't kiss at the end! It's a twist!" What are you, Rian Johnson? Fuck off.

Apparently the official explanation is that they want to make a sequel and so they're going to drag the love story out into that and you can see why I think the first movie is better, because they just wrapped everything up and didn't try to make it a saga? Once every thirty years is one thing, but how much can you do with driving around in pick-up trucks, gazing concernedly at CGI tornadoes?

[amethystina]

Shipper Tag Game

I was tagged by @a-very-fond-farewell! Thank you so much, darling! Though I'm not sure how good I'll be at it x'D

---

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don’t care anymore?

Honestly? None. While I did have some ships I was interested in, I wasn't obsessed with any of them. And I kind of still care about them? In a very nostalgic way. So I kind of fail at both parts of this question x'D

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

If I'm going with the one I got really invested in? Destiel tbh. Mainly because I was very much a late bloomer who didn't really discover fandom and fanfics until I was 20-21. I mean, I HAD read some before that but since I didn't have internet in my apartment until I went to university (I was too poor xD), it wasn't easy for me to access them. Shipping is just easier when you have internet.

But, once I had it, I DID revisit a couple of ships that were technically older than Destiel that I had never really gotten into before that, many of them from video games, anime/manga, and books I'd read. But they were all overshadowed by Destiel so that's the one I remember as my first.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

Are we talking reading or writing? I guess I'll do both?

Reading: I think it was a Zell Dincht/Seifer Almasy one from Final Fantasy VIII that a friend printed out on actual paper and gave to me back when I was 16 or 17 (again, no internet). And I honestly can't say why he picked that pairing xD (I'm definitely more of a Squall/Seifer girlie now)

Writing: Sterek. Because it felt interesting but also not too intimidating. And I also just like werewolves?

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

Not really, no. Since I've been drawing for so long I spent more time looking for art than fanfics when I was younger so I probably stumbled over a lot of them without even knowing it.

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

Not if I can help it, no. I tend to stay away from that sort of thing as best I can and just let people ship whatever they want. It's honestly none of my business.

6. Did you use to have any no-otp or have it currently?

I have several, mostly based on what I find triggering or squicky. But I don't announce them publically because that's just rude to those who DO ship them. And, as stated above, I try not to get involved in what other people ship or don't ship.

7. Who were the couples in the last fanfic you read?

Choi Yoon/Yoon Hwa Pyung from The Guest. Because who doesn't love some pining and Catholic guilt?

For real, though, I read very few fanfics right now and actually had to go check my history on AO3 to figure this out x'D The second to last fanfic was a Strangers From Hell one. And the one before that was a Guardian one!

8. Currently do you have any OTPs?

Several. Honestly too many to list x'D I'm one of those people who don't really let go of ships I like. They're not always at the forefront of my mind, though, but I remember them fondly and coo a little when I think of all the fond memories.

But if we're talking about the ones I'm the most focused on right now I'd say Kang Yo Han/Kim Ga On from The Devil Judge, Yoon Sa Wol/5-8 from Black Knight (currently struggling with chapter 6 x'D), the aforementioned Choi Yoon/Yoon Hwa Pyung from The Guest, and Shen Wei/Zhao Yunlan from Guardian.

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

Sterek. But that has less to do with my dedication to the characters and more to do with the queerbaiting and how extremely shittily Jeff Davis handled that whole thing. To use the Sterek shippers for publicity and hint that maybe it could happen, only to turn around and do everything within his power to not make it happen?

I take that personally, not because I have a huge stake in Stiles and Derek as characters, but as a queer person who, for once, thought that maybe we would actually get to see a couple we really liked get together, and then didn't.

I had more hope for Sterek than I ever did for Destiel, which technically had more in-canon queerbaiting, because the people behind Teen Wolf did their damndest to give me hope. Only for me to be ignored and basically told I was being gullible for ever thinking it would happen.

And that's a betrayal I'm probably never going to forgive.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

Not... really? I can't think of any, at least. But that could be because I always have a pretty good reason for disliking the ships I dislike. As mentioned, it's usually based on triggers and squicks and those don't really change. So my opinion on ships I dislike aren't likely to change, either.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

I mean, considering the social climate right now? Even Sterek qualifies because Stiles was underage when I started shipping them and Derek most certainly was not xD That said, I always prefer the fics when Stiles had time to turn 18 before any of the sexy stuff happened.

12. What was your favourite crack ship?

Okay, so, I've actually read a lot of fics for ships I don't actually ship, just for research purposes. Like, I find it FASCINATING to watch what other people like, how they choose to write about the things they like, and how they decide to portray the characters. Basically, I like to analyse authors just as much as I like to analyse characters. It's a hobby of mine.

And one of my absolute favourites was reading fanfics for Newt Scamander and the original Percival Graves from the first Fantastic Beasts movie (Sidenote: She-who-must-not-be-named is an asshole and this is not an endorsement of her franchise or shitty beliefs). And why I loved that so much was because the fics were about THE ORIGINAL Percival Graves who, technically, was never IN the actual movie (he might not even be alive anymore?). Like, it was Grindelwald all the time. We never actually SAW the original Percival Graves, just Grindelwald's impersonation of him.

And I just had so much fun reading various authors' takes on this character who was never actually seen but, based on Grindelwald's impersonation, can sort of be hinted? Because he must have done a good enough job of it that the people around Graves didn't notice? It was like an anthropological dig of Percival Graves transpiring right before my eyes and since I got on the train pretty early, I could see authors being inspired by each other and how the fanon developed over time. 10/10 would recommend if you're interested in watching a fandom evolve.

(also, some of the fics were so fucking good. So there's that, too xD)

13. Who is the couple you read most fanfics of?

I'm not entirely sure if it's Destiel or Stony, but definitely one of them (Sterek is most likely in third place). Partly because there are just so many to partake in (those fandoms are HUGE), but also because they've been with me for so long and numbers accumulate. That said, I haven't read any for those ships in a long, long time. But considering how many fics I devoured during the time I was the most active in those fandoms? It's going to be difficult for any of the ones I'm currently into to catch up.

Also because I tend to be in much smaller fandoms now >_>

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

WELL. A while back I would have said that even if there are some enemies-to-lovers tropes and antagonising in some of them, they're all mostly unproblematic and pretty healthy.

... I can't really do that anymore, can I? x'D

I mean, Kang Yo Han is problematic all on his own, but even HE is a green flag compared to Seo Moon Jo. That fucker is just a straight-up psychopath x'D

A more serious answer: An interesting dynamic. Which sounds like a given, but is actually a bit more tricky than that. Because I've only gotten more and more picky over the years. I've actually spoken to my wife and friends about this, because I've seen a pretty noticeable shift in my own shipping practices lately.

I gather fewer and fewer new ships and that's not because I watch/read fewer things, but because I'm getting pickier about them. There has to be an extra spark that interests me, often connected to the characters' personalities and how they play off each other, while, before, a bit of chemistry was enough.

But that also makes me more versatile, I guess? Because I focus less on tropes and more on characters and dynamics. But that also makes it harder to spot similarities xD

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

I mean, hate is a strong word. But, again, it would mostly be connected to my triggers. I don't like ships that are too abusive and unbalanced. A little bit of danger is fine, but things like abuse, infidelity, grooming, non-con etc. don't work for me, personally.

---

I don't really know who to tag so just do it if you want to! :D

[chirpsythismorning]

I dont even think the tag is dead at all tbh. We were really spoiled last summer with 2k post per day, and something crazy happening everyday like Mikhailgate, scriptgate, sock anon or people impersonating Ross duffer, but if you check most tags on this app, that's rarely the case. The thing is, it's been a year since season 4 came out and we're still getting around 300 posts per day and I need people to realise how crazy that is. Before season 4 the tag had like 5 k followers and there could be days without a single post. The fact that it's been a year and we still surpass 200 posts, AND we've already made it through the most content drought phase of the hiatus (since filming is about to begin and we'll increase the daily posts again) is crazy. This tag is still very much active, even for a show that hasn't released any new content for a year. And also AO3 is still active. The fact that for a whole year, there's been writers who still update fics or create new ones everyday is something I'm not used to coming from other smaller fandoms.

I get it's a bit more boring right now and we are looking back to the may-august craze, but we've already made it through the worst and we only need to hold on for one more month

This is definitely the best way to look at it!

I think I’m also maybe sad bc a lot of familiar faces aren’t as active, like some folks I remember seeing daily are gone. Which is fine!

And even despite that you’ll see posts in the tag get like hundreds of likes, so there are definitely a lot of people still lurking just not posting. Which is also fine!

It’s so true though that we are a lot more active than we realize.

Tumblr in general I used to think of as like a no man’s land pre-s4 bc it tends to really only be active in specific fandoms where like the unity is on point bc the content is just rolling in.

So many fandoms reside here at a point, but dwindle over time, and I feel like we are very fortunate to have made a big space here bc it is a cool platform when you have a lot of people that like a certain thing and want to talk about it.

And we’re fortunate enough to be so massive and not only that but this is sort of just the beginning. Imagine how many followers we’ll gain leading up to s5, during and after…? Or the aftermath of people coming here to look at theories and be like YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT! All the queer fans who kind of talked down on us (understandably) for potentially falling for queerbait, joining in and being like wow this is surreal, it finally happened. It’s going to be magical.

For now I guess it just makes me wonder if I should take a break too?? Like seeing yourself over and over in the tag is almost a wake up call that I should step back like everyone else is for the time being? Bc like idk if it’s maybe annoying to see the same person over and over? Or if it’s just the reminder of how inactive things are and that’s what makes people step back too?

Not even a bad thing necessarily like you said, bc this is still an unprecedented case of a fandom being quite active despite the circumstances.

Honestly though, even if there isn’t much news going into May and in the couple months after it, beyond like the bare minimum of what we’re expecting, I’ll try to embrace it and maybe step back or even focus on more detailed posts instead of the day to day fodder.

I also hate myself for this, but I rarely go in the top posts tag??? I’m always like living in the recent posts part of it and that’s probably also the problem 😭

So reminder to anyone that’s like me who does the same, we gotta support more of us that have top posts too bc I will literally remember the top posts exists, go there, find absolute gems (obviously it’s top posts???) and then be like why the fuck don’t I come here more often??? That’s another way I could probably curb my disappointment about us not being as active as I’m used to. And it’s super simple.

There’s a lot of stuff like that I could do better at to contribute to the solution of this being a better experience for myself and other still active on here!

Thanks for the pep talk anón 😇🙏

[wildishmazz]

Reading Bury Your Gays bit by bit

I find my mind going back to the nondescript van that was in the car park the first time we went to Betta.

I imagine Robby is long gone and NDA'd to within an inch of his life. If he's still alive. If he was ever alive.

That one last chance to change his mind feels like "I am giving you a chance to not get your friends killed". But hopefully from an entity that overestimates its own power.

"In the flesh," unlike you.

Feels a bit odd that Zeke's the one wielding the flash drive, but I guess he's less suspect than the actual IT person.

The glass melting away feels like an allusion to one of the most ridiculous moments in that feat of queerbaiting extraordinaire, Sherlock. Not that I watched that episode or any of that season. Thank God I was unable to watch that season until after the reviews and analysis and howls of outraged anguish were in.

Earthquakes. Stands to reason that the type of people who would embark on this project would also be the type who refuse to factor in inconvenient real life facts that they would rather think didn't apply to them.

Introduce a new variable. Unexpected parallel to Prodigy.

The board tries to handwave the methods being ruthless using the face of a man it inflicted those methods on until he died of pain-induced cardiac arrest? I suppose that's one reason why he didn't morph into the mob boss. It wouldn't have felt as obscene coming from his mouth, just in character.

The scientists and lab technicians too?

The whole building?

Quicksand.

It was replacing everything. The Dead Internet incarnate.

Fittingly, I can see how this would work on screen. The montage of people and buildings collapsing into dust.

We're not going to meet the woman who made the machine this time, are we? I wonder what the chances are that she also made the tethering device in Camp Damascus?

And we still don't know what Agent Y looked like.

epilogue:

Boy meets girl, that's a safe beginning. But totally reimagined because this Joe Gillis and Betty Schaeffer will not be embarking on a torrid and doomed love affair. 

I'm a little surprised we didn't get one last script chapter. But maybe those only existed from the perspective of the machine.

[jujianjes]

Just want you to know that I also identify as both bisexual and genderfluid and you know why this is such a problem? Because representation matters. It's not just about some silly ship, it's literally about how they're constantly creating misconceptions about literal fucking identities.

Yes, we're the ones that are actually existing with our actual identities and not those fictional character, but you know why media is so fucking relevant? Because most of it are informative and relatable. Some see their struggles from an outside perspective and allows them to understand themselves better. Some see other cultures and learn about it. Through media.

Media plays an important role in, not just entertainment, but also how people view concepts that is being shown. People consume media.

I know people can have different opinions, but hey, guess what? People can have it without being outright disrespectful because their silly little ship is actually harmful to certain communities.

We're not the ones being disrespectful because last I checked, all of our arguments have supporting details to prove our point. We're the ones rationally reasoning out to people who would spit on our faces 'cos we dared be offended by a literal misrepresentation of our identity.

And why would it be bi erasure to speak a fact that has been rationally backed by multiple informations multiple times? I am not fucking speaking for all bisexuals and genderfluid folks, I never said that, my claim is that it is harmful to the identities itself, some bi people may not side with us but we are also defending their identity, we are explaining to other people what bisexuality is so why would that be bi erasure? Just because there are bi people who are not offended while we're claiming it's offensive to our identity, it's already bi erasure? Do you even understand what bi erasure is?

There are bi folks and genderfluid folks who may not be offended, but guess what? The people we argued with have invalidated them because it's just fiction, right? You can like or ignore or whatever all you want but at least be fucking aware that misrepresentation in media is a problem.

If people try to explain why it is harmful to them, and they get striked with "it's just fiction, you don't have to be offended", or worse, get straight up invalidated as people with their own identity, which I have seen a lot of Sylki shippers do btw, doesn't that seem like an actual problem instead of something made up to cover up the fact that we didn't get what we want which is literally just proper representation?

A lot of people reflect on fiction, see themselves in characters of fiction, see their struggles be shown in fiction. From your own words, it seems like fiction doesn't do that for you, so maybe just stay away from the people who are defending their identity against people who didn't just queerbaited a lot of queer individuals, but outright disrespected them.

Oh my goodness, I can't believe we're still not over this.

Loki and Sylvie as a ship is a total disrespect towards genderfluid folks and is an accessory for bisexual erasure.

A lot of people have explained this already. I still see people not only defending it with their life, but being actively rude and disrespectful towards people trying to explain why it's a toxic ship.

[sheepwasfound]

Hi! I'm really curious what are your thoughts on dnf "queerbaiting" their audience? I know this topic is quite often been discussed, but it seems like many people don't see it as a baiting at all, while it is very obvious in some cases (for example, their texts, tweets, sometimes "jeoulosy" thing seems kinda off, "some interactions are seemingly staged - the one where dream "didn't know" that george was streaming etc). Don't get me wrong, I don't want to bring any negativity, but their relationship really confuse me - sometimes it is obviously geniune flirting, sometimes they very clearly exploit this topic for clout. And well it's hard to blame them for this, I mean it's not really their fault that the audience got so invested in whatever happens between them, but sometimes the "staged" part seem a bit too much tbh. I just really wonder to what amount this whole thing is real. Because well I feel like if you "play pretend" as a couple so much with someone it may start feeling odd, weird, somewhat real and then you may start questioning your own feelings. Idk, it kinda feels like what is happening with them, but maybe they are just really really good actors.

eh, i think it's a mix, but the parts that i personally find shippable about them are not something they do for show imo. however, i do think they occasionally do play things up for fun.

first of all, they're actual people and actual friends so they can't "queerbait" (as a bi i hate that misconception with a passion but that'd be another essay), but if we ignore that and just consider what you're talking about as them...playing things up because they think it's funny and it'll get a reaction from the audience. that's just something entertainers do. one example of this is when dream said "well, obviously we're gonna kiss" when asked about what they'll do when they meet. ofc i don't know their motivations, but i'm guessing a fair bit of the reason they make those kinds of comments is because they themselves find it funny. many friends do this. dream's also said they did it before youtube. maybe they also find the audience's reaction funny. it's still not queerbaiting. i don't think they do it consciously as some kind of marketing ploy, cus let's be real -- they don't need it. i'm pretty sure they just plain enjoy that shit. they have a fun time doing it. and the audience has a fun time watching it.

the texts you mentioned btw, those are just between them, how could it even be "for clout"? if you think they plan out texting each other stuff like that and then posting it a few weeks later, i think that's going pretty far for two cc's who have a huge following and piles of money completely independently from their ship. they literally do not need to do that. i think a more likely reason is they have a fun time doing it. so yes, i do believe they sometimes play stuff up, but i think the reason they do it is because it’s fun for them, and they do it whether they have an audience or not. it’s not “staged”, they’re just having fun.

to top it off, as a shipper i'm not a huge fan of those very over-the-top lines or whatever, cus they pretty clearly come off as jokes. ofc...well...making jokes like that is also a way to flirt...and figure stuff out...and lines can blur... but anyway, the parts i like most about them are the ones they don't play up. their dedication to each other. their dumbass bickering while they're still obviously having the time of their lives. being able to talk all day and not get sick of each other. wanting to live together. always being hyperaware of each other. knowing every tiny detail about each other. most of these are just...things that super close friends do too. for me, that's what i like about them. and that is absolutely real.

still, when it comes to shipping them romantically, the thing that gets me beyond the friendshipy things isn't the over-the-top dnf jokes and whatever that they do (though like i said, that can be flirting too), it's the goddamn tension they have sometimes. such close friends that are so familiar and so comfortable with each other, how do they still get moments where they...well, get quiet. awkward. sometimes you can see george bite his lip and let out a little giggle cus he doesn't know what to say, and you hear dream's voice get even lower. it's like you can hear their hearts beating and thoughts racing. their acting ain't that fricking good anon

[rainbowsky]

Ask regarding Baili Hongyi from DD's new drama Luoyang. Putting it under a cut for spoilers.

Anonymous asked:

I don't know who to ask but you about this, but my friends and I watched WoL. One of my male friends suddenly said, "That gay guy is bla bla bla" to Baili. (No he didn't mock it. He said it while he described/discussed Baili he used it to differentiate one character from others. Like he called Baili's wife as candy woman because she didn't contribute much so far but to be Baili's wife a.k.a the candy of the show)

I was like 'huh?' and goes "The actor is gay, you mean?"

But he went "No, the character. The Baili guy."

Do you think you 'feel this vibe' too? Is it implied or something? Because in the novel, Baili is like totally straight with him madly in love with his wife whom he is kinda cold to in the beginning. But we know novel and its adaptation always have some differences. ( And sadly, even though I'm familiar with queerbaitings in shows, it takes some time for me to recognize them.)

Or what my friend felt is just DD's gayness or something?

I can't explain this because I know DD is gay, so I always see him as gay no matter how 'straight' his character is. My friend doesn't know anything about DD.

What about you, Sky?

Oh, I know in the novel Baili is also described to be cold hearted and kinda doesn't like woman, but mostly it's implicitly explained that he is just 'not ready for marriage/doesn't really care much about women&marriage and still want to do what he wants," not because he actually hates women and marriage in general.

Same goes with the show when he shows distaste when the women are pawning him and the line "Marriage has no meaning to me. I don’t wish to be married. I don’t want to continue the family line...". I dunno if these are for the 'cold-hearted personality and implicit -I'm not ready to marry, I wanna do my things- explanation, or because he is gay/ace thing?

I personally do not read Baili Hongyi as gay, I read him as autistic. I get the impression that's intentional on the part of the creators. Especially since after he was groped by the women in the brothel he seemed to have had a bit of a meltdown.

He has all the classic 'stereotypical' autism traits:

Hates being touched

Much more interested in ideas and tasks than in people

Can get overwhelmed when faced with too much sensory or social stimulation

Focused on his specific interests (food, puzzles, engineering, systems), which he is a comprehensive expert on, and ignores everything/one else, including eating and sleeping

Fixated on justice, right/wrong

Creative and intelligent

Constantly underestimated

Blunt/honest in his speech; doesn’t understand or participate in social niceties

Fiercely independent; wants to do things according to his vision of what's appropriate, regardless of what other people think

Complete lack of interest in money, status, or social expectations

Doesn't use his face expressively in the way others do

Of course, people have a natural tendency to connect with characters by identifying with them, so they'll often see themselves in a character in some way. I know a lot of people read him as ace, for example, many of whom are ace themselves. So maybe as an autistic person I see autism. Maybe I identify him as autistic in part because I want him to be like me.

However, as a gay guy I don't see 'gay' in him. He's shown an indifference to his wife, and to marriage in general, but there hasn't been an expressed interest in men, either.

It's fairly common for autistic people to be extremely focused, and to not take an interest in relationships until the feeling strikes them. When it does, they can become very interested in relationships, love, etc. It just looks like Baili isn't there yet.

That's my take on it. Everyone's own perspective is valid. Like I said, we're all going to see ourselves in the characters. It's the way our brain naturally tries to get invested in a show or film.

If I had to guess why your friend said Baili is gay, I'd say it's likely because in a heteronormative society everyone who shows a disinterest in the opposite sex is assumed to be gay. Ask all the ace people who get labelled as gay, regardless of their actual orientation.

But you know your friend better than I do - having never met him - so you should either just ask him, or draw your own conclusions based on what you know of him.

Do I think he saw DD's queerness leaking through? No. DD is an actor performing a role. If I believed he couldn't play a straight character convincingly, that would be like saying he's not a good actor. He's showing indifference because that's what the role calls for.

That will likely change as the series progresses. It's a classic love story trope for someone to be indifferent and gradually become loving. As you said, it's how things go in the novel.

[lesbiangracehanson]

I know the lesbian can do no wrong and i do ship ladley but Laura was pretty pushy at Bradley about how she cuts Chaos out of her life and how Bradley needs to look at hers and walk away from hal. And the one time Bradley said no to something, which was coming over after she was outed, laura went very pissy. I do understand that Bradley would think what Laura had said was that she'd break up with her if Bradley didn't walk away from her family. They just never had the time to talk that through. Or for bradley to get therapy and figure out what it is she wants to do and not hal, laura or Cory. And tbh you can feel left alone even if you understand why someone had to walk away. The show didn't make Laura a villain at all. Just said these are two fundamentally different options for Bradley and she needs to decide what fits her better. And this conversation online that is centered around implying the show is lesbophobic or homophobic for criticising Laura in any way or going with a straight couple as well is imo terrible. It won't lead to better rep. But to no rep at all. Your ship not winning isn't inherently bait or any Form of phobia etc. Especially since the show and Reese never said anything else and always also mentioned Cory and Bradley. At least Bradley doesn't know he outed her I fully expected them to have her forgive him on screen. From Bradley's pov he's her friend whose always been on her side. She clearly has mental health issues and is in a crisis. I genuinenly don't get the outrage either about the content of the ep nor the comments from the creators.

yeah! hello to you too i guess! :-)

i've not at any point said that 'the lesbian can do no wrong', i've also not said that bradley + laura is queerbaiting at any point. i don't believe either of those things to be true

i think the fact that laura is being read as 'pushy' for setting clear, emotionally healthy boundaries with other people is very telling though and says a lot about what we think of people who - after years of working on themselves - are able to articulate calmly what they do and do not want from their life. it's funny to me that you've said laura went 'very pissy' the 'one time bradley said no to something' like, was she upset? yes obviously, they'd both been through a shit day + i appreciate that the writers acknowledged that that day was also shit for laura, even if the focus was understandably on bradley. does that also mean she was unnecessarily argumentative about the situation? no lol........ she says what she wants, explains why she wants it + ultimately says to bradley 'ok do what u have to do with your brother, go home + we'll see each other tomorrow'. you seem to think i believe ALL lesbian characters 'can do no wrong' or that i'm looking for moral purity in the lesbian characters i watch.......... which is just not true lol, i've enjoyed laura as a character so much because it feels rare to see a character who has clearly acknowledged she had shit to work through AND has actually worked on it, so i guess? kudos to the writers for that. my problem comes in the fact that laura's boundaries + her emotional maturity is being read by the audience as 'pushy' or 'pissy' behaviour lol

i agree there just wasn't time for them to talk things through or for bradley to get therapy and i agree that you can feel left alone even if you understand why someone went. but i guess if we're gonna be pedantic that my issue with what reese said was that laura abandoned bradley, not that bradley felt that laura had abandoned her. but whatever, i get that actors sometimes don't think about the things they say in bts stuff/interviews, i just think that was maybe an unhelpful thing to hear after the last episode

yes, bradley clearly was in a crisis in the last episode for understandable reasons! so i think it was probably questionable of cory to pick the moment where bradley was saying how overwhelmed she was feeling to finally confess his love for her. this confession was clearly meant to be the big climax for the finale + i can logically understand all the reasons the writers wanted that as their narrative climax/that they wanted the bradley/cory relationship as their cliffhanger but that doesn't mean i don't get to feel disappointed by that decision

like tbh, i'm actually just kind of tired of having to clarify that me being personally disappointed in the direction a show has gone is not an attack on every single thing the show is doing or that my disappointment means i'm missing 'the point'. i'm not engaging with the writers on twitter, i'm not complaining in the comments of actors' instagrams, i'm posting my thoughts on a show in the tiny corner of the internet i inhabit, you are free to disagree but i'm not about to stop voicing my disappointments in my space ! and i agree that more productive conversations need to be had in online spaces but the argument that queer women need to find a way of making their criticisms palatable to ostensibly straight writers/showrunners who can easily take that rep away or whatever, has never sat well with me

[lonelier-version-of-you]

if that's the wiki's stance then we're never going to have even five bi characters in the whole show. because holby and casualty either only write bisexuality as subtext for characters they only show in straight relationships (connie, henrik, jac), or they have characters be in a mlm/wlw relationship with a confirmed gay characters and call themselves gay as well (lofty, serena). like when has a character actually called themselves bi on either show?

Jez Andrews called himself bi, didn’t he? Like I know he had the weird lines about being “half gay and half straight” or whatever it was he said but I swear he did actually also call himself bi at least once.

Lofty was called bi at some point, I seem to recall, but it was by someone else (I want to say either Dom or Sacha), not himself. I don’t think he ever labelled his sexuality in the show, but all the promo material referred to him as gay, and Lee Mead called him gay as well. So it’s a weird situation. As far as I’m aware, you’re right that they never used the word ‘bisexual’ with regard to Serena - while there was definitely at least one use of ‘lesbian’, one comment about her not being into men (although this was from Ric, not Serena herself), and a few more ambiguous usages of ‘sapphic’.

...So, yeah, that gives us a grand total of two explicitly bi characters in both shows combined, and with one of them they flip-flopped between saying he was bi and saying he was gay. :/

I’d argue there’s also a third category between 'bisexuality as subtext’ and ‘bi but referred to as gay’: characters like Donna, and Lola Griffin, who have been with both men and women but haven’t labelled themselves with any specific sexuality. (I mean, I guess that’s why the ‘LGBTQ women’ category exists on the wiki.) IDK what to call these characters. “Bi as a one-off”, maybe? (One-off in the sense of how the show treats it, not that I think that’s how it works or anything.) Like, Lola revealed that she was dating a woman in a one-off guest return, and Donna slept with Mickie Hendrie that one time, but in terms of what we’ve actually seen from them on the show, their long-term primary relationships have all been with men.

And then the situations for characters like the ice queen trio are just... a mess. Heavy, HEAVY implications, but they never quite say it. For Jac we have definitive, explicit, undeniable actor confirmation (which came alongside Rosie’s own coming out), for Henrik we don’t have anything quite that strong but Guy has made a few different comments about Henrik not being straight/about him being interested in men and did suggest at one point that Henrik could be bisexual (actually using that word) - I don’t think Amanda Mealing has said anything about Connie being bi (yet)? but please do correct me if she has - but the show itself just barely skirts around the topic of both characters’ sexualities.

(And when I say “just barely”, I mean it to the point that... if you look at some of Connie’s, Henrik’s, or Jac’s interactions with people of the same gender as them, and you imagine a man and a woman having those interactions, people would take it as an objective fact that those interactions were romantic. E.g. if Arianne Cornell were a man, no one would be in any doubt that she and Connie used to date or that Jac slept with her during that road trip. if John Gaskell were a woman, no one would be in any doubt that Henrik was in love with him.

Basically, the Holby writers are lucky society is so heteronormative that people usually jump to any other possible explanation for these interactions, because everyone would just Know these characters weren’t straight otherwise and the show wouldn’t be able to get away with queerbaiting lolll.)

Sorry, I feel like I’m losing track of my own point here. I mean I guess the point is ‘Holby can’t write bisexuality’ but we both already knew that.

Anyway, as for the wiki thing: I do have to wonder how it’s gonna work WRT bi characters especially. Because just not including certain characters like Henrik, Jac, or Connie, in those categories is easy enough, but what about characters like Lofty, Donna, or Lola? Are they going to just be categorised as generally LGBTQ because they express attraction to both men and women but haven’t explicitly identified as bi, or categorised as bi even though they’ve never used that word for themselves, or what? I don’t envy anyone, including the wiki mod, trying to sort out that mess tbh.

[fandomshatelgbtqpeople]

Voltron basically queerbaited us, but not in a way most people view queerbaiting- it promised us good representation, but instead we got a dead gay character and Shiro was dumbledored (confirmed as gay outside of the show but not in-universe). Steven Universe gave me hope that maybe finally it's time for more good LGBT rep in cartoons, but I guess we're not there yet. At this point, I doubt we'll ever be.

Before season 7 was released I had lost interest in Voltron but the news about gay/mlm Shiro (the coolest character) drew me back in, and I thought oh with everything that he has been through especially last season he’d finally get to have some happiness in the form of getting back with his ex boyfriend. Of course that didnt happen. I get sad about these things but I like to stay hopeful. Steven Universe delivers on queer rep because Rebecca Sugar is a bisexual non binary woman, queer content creators are who we should be relying on and supporting. The She ra reboot is being made by Noelle Stevenson who afaik is lesbian, the show may or may not have queer content but it’ll likely at the least be queer friendly, and Im looking forward to it.

-mod i

[bisluthq]

Babe YOU open up your mind a little and wonder why someone being like “idk I don’t mind” might not just be an act of allyship from a Kinsey 0 person /// are you daft? i AM the one saying it's possible BOTH FUCKING WAYS. You're the only saying they're 109% for a fact queer sis. Stop being a hypocrite and actually read the questions. We're open to your intrepration you're the one triggered by anything different

Well then WHO CARES dude? I’m not like going to argue with Jack - or Harry - stans who feel they’re 110% straight. Idc. So like what are you getting from proving this?

You brought up Brendan Urie - he’s married to a woman so guess what MAYBE HE LIED FOR ATTENTION or to be more liberal or whatever. He says he’s pansexual but seeing as how he’s married to a woman MAYBE HE IS LYING. Same for Jason Mraz who calls himself bi. Idk these people’s heads or dicks - I just accept what they say. So if someone says “don’t assume I’m straight” without adding further heteroflexible bullshit I’m gonna assume they’re off straight (not a gay icon tho!!!!) and if someone says “I’m not queerbaiting anyone who cares about labels” I’m gonna assume they’re not keen to label themselves straight (not a gay icon tho!!!!!) and beyond that again as Harry says who fucking careeeeeeees?

What benefit will you get from telling me I don’t know someone else’s sexuality? Like I don’t. Fuck THEY might not. So what POSSIBLE win can you have from saying “maybe they’re lying or confused or whatever” like ABSOLUTELY possible but let’s just idk believe people.

[thespiritofeon]

Queerbaiting & Voltron

Ok, guys.... I've seen too many posts about this, so I guess It's my turn to add an opinion.

I just want to preface this by saying that I am a queer person (as in... not cishet... not cis or het...)

Ok, with that out of the way... Why in the world are we saying Voltron is Queerbait??? We don't have anything to go off of?? The show literally just started and we barely have any interactions. I'm not going to lie, there are a few interactions that could be argued for being intimate, but we don't have anything to go off of???

We don't know the character's back stories????

We know Lance has a big family and that Pidge has a brother and parents. We know that Keith has/had a dad that may or may not have lived in The Shack. We know - or assume - that Keith's mother was at least part Galra. (As a biracial person, having Keith being half Galra is a big personal headcannon of mine. And I 100% identify with the "not fitting in on either side" deal, so that would be great for me if that's what we find out) And we know that Lotor is half Galra/half Altean (👀👌 biracial representation right there my boi) We know Allura had a dad for sure, but did she have any siblings? What happened to her mother? Did she have any cousins? Did Coran have any family? A significant other? Children? Perhaps he had a daughter and sees her in Allura.

We don't know anything about these characters!!!!!

We have head-cannons and "what if"s!!!

The only thing sexuality-wise we know about the Voltron characters is that Lance may or may not be attracted to women. However, he has flirted with at least two alien women.

The only "trans-maybe" representation we have is a short comedic scene with Pidge freezing at the bathroom signs.

Please don't make a mountain out of a mole-hill.

Please stop harassing the producers!!!

Do you understand how easy it can be for the producers to just.... Stop producting Voltron: Legendary Defenders?

Do you know if the cast has a clause in their contracts that prohibit them from quitting? Do you know if they have to pay a fee if they do?

Do you want to risk it?

They can just be like "alright guys, wrap it up. Don't even worry about finishing what you have, we're going to submit it as is. I know it was fun but these brats are screwing with our numbers. The cast hates working with the ungrateful fans and they quit and it's too costly to recast this far into the game."

If this thing gets cut short, Voltron Legendary Defenders will be another crappy reboot.

Stop risking the show because you're ungrateful.

Stop it. Be patient.

The majority of you are adults and you're acting like children.