#Goth is and always will be a “music” based subculture

[amygdalae]

So ur enabling him to be a poser

oh come now be fucking fr....he's not gonna start calling himself a goth just because he's showing an interest in my style and gonna try playing dressup with me for a date night in. It's a bit of fun u silly goose

[gothiccharmschool]

Happy World Goth Day!

Remember, there is no one way to be goth.

Be aware of the bands that helped form the subculture (Bauhaus, Siouxsie, The Cure, etc.), but also know there are all sorts of goth music subgenres, so explore!

Goth is for everyone. If someone tells you that you have to be thin, white, young, able-bodied, etc. to be a Real Goth, ignore them. They're wrong.

Goth fashion is based in DIY and combining random bits until you have a look that makes you happy. Goth fashion isn't about spending huge amounts of money at various big 'goth lifestyle' websites.

Always support indie bands, artists, clothing designers, jewelers, etc. when you can. Posting about/promoting them is support!

With much love,

Auntie Jilli

[girlishguitarist]

I always feel so weird when I see companies making mega expensive “punk” and “goth” clothes. I used to know this other person who kept on wanting to get into the goth scene, and another one of my friends literally was so willing to help her and get her started out with like music recs and clothing tips and she’d constantly tell us. “Oh, but dressing goth isn’t accessible for me. I don’t have the money.”

Which y’know makes sense, not everybody has the money to drop on getting goth clothes. Especially when your priorities are literally keeping a roof over your head and paying bills. We’re all from working class families here. But then we just kind of realised she was referring to the shit you’d find on like… Killstar or Dollskill and everything made a lot more sense. It’s been making me think. Ever since alternative subcultures such as goth, such as punk, even grunge tbf have made their way into mainstream fashion trends on the internet it’s made people believe that the only way you’re able to get clothes to “dress the part” is to fork out shite tonnes of money to these ridiculously overpriced online clothing stores. (You don’t even have to dress goth for example to be goth because it’s a music based subculture but that’s a whole other thing.)

The way trends are today with this whole, “aesthetic” thing along with the consumerist HELL that is fast fashion sparks a wave people just buying swathes of overpriced clothing to hop onto a clothing trend that is actually ripped from a subculture they don’t really understand? Like part of the whole core of these subcultures is that we are anti-consumerist and anti-capitalist. You are a fucking joke.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not talking negatively about people who truly want to get into these subcultures. There is nothing wrong with that at all, of course there isn’t. I’m talking about people who will see a fashion trend and just hop onto it and really have no idea what they’re doing. (This is part of the reason why I believe it’s unlikely we’ll ever have a new subculture as big as previous ones ever again because of just how everything is a trend now.)

Fashion that has been born from these subcultures has always been DIY. Making your own battle jackets, thrifting pieces of clothing and tweaking them to be how you want. Like… I don’t know about you babes but I don’t think goths in the 80’s were getting their clothes from fucking Hot Topic.

The fact that companies are now and have been making ridiculously priced pieces of clothing to capitalise off of: 1.) People who want to hop on trends because they don’t want to make the clothes they just want the style now, and 2.) People who want to genuinely get into subcultures such as punk and goth but may be misguided as to where to get clothing just makes me so fucking mad because it makes getting into the fashion within these subcultures seem inaccessible and consumerist-ridden when they’re absolutely not meant to be.

[kogyalies]

GUIDE TO YABI!! 亚比

‘yabi’ is a compound word made of 亚 ‘ya’ (meaning ‘sub-,’ as in subculture) and the derogatory word 逼 ‘bi’ (often found in many insults such as shabi (傻逼) meaning ‘idiot,’ and zhuangbi (装逼) meaning ‘poser’ or ‘fake’).

inspired by subcultures like punk, goth, hippie, grunge, and cyberpunk as well as cultural aspects of the neo-chinese style and the too cool movement, the aesthetic was born from china’s underground music scene.

some of the yabi staples include — but are not restricted to — intricate and ripped stockings, colorful hair, tattoos, maximalist accessories, and loose thigh-high socks inspired by the kogal schoolgirl style. but these are not limitations to the style.

styles can vary significantly across the yabi community: some incorporate goth-inspired total-black outfits or hippie-looking handmade accessories, as well as tight y2k tops and varying accessories such as headphones to fur leg warmers. how you dress depends on personal preference!

When it comes to yabi styling, the only thing that seems to stay the same is the mix and match of other styles and aesthetics — from iconic subcultures like gyaru and y2k to recent trends such as e-girl, cybercore, and abg. you will always find a unique style that differs from person to person in this subculture.

although it is heavily based on fashion, it's a show of breaking free from the normalcy of life as well as a symbol of youth rebellion and lifestyle liberty, almost like the offspring of shamate that was popular years back.

makeup will vary from preference, but often you'll see big lashes, aegyosal, bold eyeliner, and white liner seen in styles/subcultures like gyaru and e-girl. xiaohongshu and douyin are great places to get inspo for makeup!

[detectivehole]

i've never been able to convince myself people into music-based subcultures exclusively for the fashion are entirely posers. these are music based scenes so yes it's a little odd, and sure they're more likely to fall into consumerist habits- but you (generally) have to pay for music or access to clubs and venues so it's not like the rest of us are immune (and none of us have to fall into consumerists habits anyway). if fashion is a type of communication and self expression through art, and is so deeply associated with most subcultures as to be almost a dress code, then i see no reason why it's significantly less valid a mode of participation than a shared and publicly displayed love of music- another form of communication and self expression through art. if you can be goth but not dress the part i feel like you could make a good argument that you can be goth and not listen the part. i understand defending the origin of a subculture you care about but it's not 1979 anymore things have changed. definitions are always reshaping themselves around time. sometimes it feels like it's just a rejection of fashion as a legitimate art form more than anything, which is absurd because it's one of the loudest and most immediate forms of cultural connection, communication and self expression we have as a species. i don't think it's what anyone means, but i always wonder

[magpod-confessions]

I really hate the "is Gerry still goth in tmagp" debate, for several reasons. (This can be taken with a grain of salt because I love goth Gerry in both archives and protocol)

We don't know that he's goth in tma- we know he has badly dyed black hair and tattoos. Leitner called him a goth, but does Leitner know what music Gerry listens to? Goth is a music based subculture, and it irks me that people immediately made Gerry goth- it feels like they're reducing this entire subculture to fashion.

People can headcanon what they want. This is fandom, we are playing with dolls. Why should it be universal fandom law that Gerry should always be goth, in the same way people will call you islamophobic for not hc-ing muslim Basira.

The argument of "oh, you think he's not goth just because he's happy" that's always used to shut people down. Idk man, maybe they just don't think he's goth because they know NEXT TO NOTHING about him in tmagp canon. Protocol Gerry might be completely different to Archive Gerry, we do not know.

Tldr: people can hc what they want and to act like not hc-ing Protocol Gerry as goth is some sort of cardinal sin is irritating to me. 🗣

Ppl rly need to chill abt hcs its actually insane

Psa: Harassing ppl is never ok. Block and move on it is not that hard. If there is an actual genuine issue, politely inform ppl of it

[bitter-hibiscus]

I absolutely your Robin Jason headcannons, do you have any more? Maybe some Red Hood ones as well?

!!! im so happy to be getting these asks this is so fun

More Jaybin hcs (part one here):

He has a bunch of 1960s style clothes because Rena likes dressing like a mix of Amy Winehouse and Twiggy

baby goth in the making thanks to Natalia. she gives him a collection of Edgar Allen Poe's poems and he's just hook, line, and sinker into the subculture

He usually listens to metal bands but his guilty pleasure music is slow ballads and gayboy pop (think Kevin Atwater and Troye Sivan)

His favorite rogue to fight is KGBeast because of sentimentality, since KGB is the first rogue he ever defeated as Robin

He has pimples on his thighs and neck but somehow never on his face

He hates having his nails painted because of sensory issues, but lets Rena paint them anyway

His favorite of Dick's teammates is Vic, because he let Jason watch him fix one of Kori's alien weapons once, and he's super patient and kind and answers all of Jason's questions

Red Hood hcs:

Still mostly listens to metal but his favorite band is Rainbow Kitten Surprise (his favorite song is Finalist)

He has a journal where he writes shitty, angsty poetry with a fountain pen

He can never quite resist petting dogs during patrol, so there are multiple pictures online of Mafia Boss Red Hood playing with civilian's puppies

Has a tattoo of a wilded rose on top of his batarang scar to hide it. It's corny and ugly as hell but that was kind of the point. After he starts dating Rose he tells her it's because they were destined to meet. She gags every time

full-fledged romantic goth now. I'm talking manic panic white base, big eyeliner, and fake fangs. I'm talking huge messy hair with about a ton of hairspray. I'm talking "hates that every goth clothing he can find has bats on it"

His main mug is one of those corny millennial "don't talk to me until I've had my coffee" ones that Roy got for him during the outlaws. Jason uses it ironically but Roy thinks he also finds it funny

Sometimes when he's feeling nostalgic Jason will lay down on a rooftop and try to find where Oa is up in the sky, because he and Kyle looked for constellations together during Cosmic Mistake

Contrary to popular belief, his favorite superhero isn't Wonder Woman, it's Black Canary. Which is too bad because she hates his guts

Sent Sasha to live with an ex-con he trusted in South Dakota. He still sends her gifts often but they don't talk anymore since they realized how bad he was to her mental health

Deathstroke's #5 hater. Loses only to all 3 Wilson children (minus Res), Cassandra Cain, and Oliver Queen

Really wants to meet Connor Hawke because he was actually being genuine in GA Vol3 when he told Ollie he'd always wanted to meet him, and has since really really wanted to meet all of the Arrows even though none of them like him. He's the world's worst fanboy

Will do anything Talia asks of him but spits on Ra's face if he so much as looks in Jason's direction

Calls Damian "little prince" in Arabic (Amir Le-Zghir) specifically because of the book, but ALSO because it was what Willis called him when he was a child

Duke is his favorite bat because he isn't afraid to make fun of Jason, gets into a shit ton of trouble, and swears around Bruce like it's nothing

Whew, I think that's enough for a single post. Still have a lot more though lmao

[rivetgoth]

Seeing someone try to cheekily bad faith argue against goth being a music based subculture with “but that would exclude deaf and hard of hearing people from being goth since they can’t listen to music” is soooooo wild to me. No it literally does not. I KNOW Deaf and HoH people who go to concerts and clubs. There are Deaf and HoH people who love music. There are tons of posts on r/goth from Deaf and HoH goths: “I think it would be pretty cruel of a community to strip me of an identity I've held since I was conscious because of a physical disability, and I will continue to call myself goth. However, when I see this question, I don't think it's really in consideration of deaf people in general, and a way for the Instagoths to justify taking a culture and making it something it isn't. I refuse to be a catalyst to justify your Killstar partnership.”

Saying “Deaf and HoH people can’t be goth” feels significantly more ableist than suggesting that a community that was built around a shared love of a specific kind of art… should remain as such, rather than be about fast fashion and corporate commodification, lol. Goth spaces that are inclusive to disabled people have always existed. Deaf goths exist. Commodifying gothness and watering it down to be purely a marketable aesthetic does literally fucking nothing to make it MORE inclusive to disabled people, and the post I saw this in response to was specifically about goth as aesthetic making it LESS welcoming to goths of color due to the way mainstream commodification always = glorification of whiteness/paleness, whereas within an underground music subculture there’s space for marginalized goths to exist and be celebrated... It just so obviously reveals how little this person knows about the community—Goth being centered around the music doesn’t mean all we do is like. Sit and quietly listen to songs anyway. There’s so many facets of the community that someone can partake in without decentering the music. This would be obvious if someone actually partook in the subculture and made an active effort to celebrate marginalized goths and their actual tangible history within the community, rather than making up hypothetical gotchas online to justify the existence of Killstar.

[xxlittle-miss-horrorxx]

So a very minor nitpick on Helluva Boss….

I know I said I should only ramble with a sideblog for Helluva boss and Hazbin hotel to put a lot of u criticisms in (it’s not gonna be like an anti blog or anything, the show is still very much a guilty pleasure for me) but I just feel like getting this out of my system

I recalled seeing a critical post about Helluva boss’s lack of music diversity and how we sadly don’t see much other music genres than generic pop songs and musical numbers… They mentioned how they wish they saw more metal music and all of that and it reminded me why I have a massive issue with the show’s misusage of the word goth.

I don’t think anyone outside of the goth subculture or most people (even critical blogs) know this, but goth isn’t really a fashion aesthetic. Just like with metal, punk, and grunge, it’s a music based subculture that originated from the punk movement during the late 70s and on forward gave birth to goth as we all know.

That being said, it’s why I have a massive issue with the show labeling Loona and Octavia being goth, when they literally don’t even show signs of listening to goth music (like the Bauhaus, The Cure..) and mostly just get emo or pop songs.

Loona to me just comes off more like an emo girl than a goth, not even a mallgoth (since mallgoths are more like metalheads) since she’s shown to like bands like My Chemical Romance and even the song when searching for Octavia gave odd 2000s emo vibe. Why couldn’t y’all just went with calling her emo instead of goth 🙃🙃🙃

Now Octavia to me, could come off as a baby bat exploring the goth subculture but she always plays pop music for her and idk… I get it, most baby bats won’t be familiar with goth music right away but idk it be nice to hear those themes.

That being said, Helluva Boss isn’t the only cartoon guilty of this. Majority of cartoons in general were always made by normie people and they don’t know much about the goth subculture and only relied on stereotypes normal people have about goths.

However, there are adult cartoons that actually did research better when writing goth characters and giving them more accurate music that fits them.

Take the South Park goth kids for an example

In their room, you notice a poster that’s called Skippy Puppy and the Blauhaus, which are spoof bands of real bands called Skinny Puppy and The Bauhaus which are two bands that are very much liked by goths (bauhaus being the first goth band that gave birth to goth, and skinny puppy is more industrial than goth, we consider that goth adjacent since back in the 90s, goth and industries music were very much mashed together in goth clubs )

Even by character designs, Michael and Henrietta were modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux, who were very much the big time iconic goth musicians.

Matt and Trey themselves are huge fans of the Cure and even had a cameo of Robert smith and even hung out with goths before, so you can see why they got a depiction of them to notch. And the whole thing with them and the vamp kids was a real thing that happened with the 90s with goths and mall goths, i suggestion checking out Angela Benedict’s video for that.

Another example is Venture Bros since Triana believe it or not, is very much an accurate depiction of a goth. And they even referenced bands like the Bauhaus, Alien, Nik Fiend, and Deathrock music as some of Triana’s interests.

But the big kicker is Triana herself, is voiced by Lisa friggin Hammer!

For anyone who doesn’t know, Lisa hammer was an iconic goth musician during the 90s and was in two ethereal wave bands known as Mors Siphlitica and Requiem in White. The fact they had her voice their goth character shows me they did their research.

Even Seth McFarlene got this right (yes you heard me) with American Dad with Debbie and her goth peers, not only making her a very down to earth person but they made their main theme “Love will Tear us Apart” from Joy Division

For those that may not know, Joy Division is one of the Big 5 of goth bands along with the the Bauhaus, the Cure, Sioxusie and the Banshees, and Sisters of Mercy. So I was surprised that Seth got this right, since he’s known to stereo things in his shows.

And of course we also have Daria, with having two goth characters and no I don’t mean Daria and Jane. (Having a cynical personality doesn’t make you a goth) But rather do I mean Andrea and Trent

She was so obviously modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux since those two were very iconic with goth fashion back on the day, we sadly don’t see much of her but you can tell they took inspiration.

And you may be thinking, but why Trent? He doesn’t even dress goth and just seems like he likes any music. While he’s that may be true, but I Remeber having this conversation with other goths in Instagram where we had a huge disccuin of goth characters in fiction. And one of my peers mentioned Trent also counts because he’s shown to have an interest in goth music if you look at his bedroom. So I thought I check out and what do you know

There’s a poster of Bauhaus and Sisters of Mercy inside his bedroom :) and honestly guys, there are actual goths like this I knew in real life. Where they don’t dress the part but are still a huge fanatic of the music. Like you don’t need to dress all dark to be goth, that’s optional, you just really need to enjoy goth music to be goth.

And of course we have Serena from Downtown who actually was not only based off of a goth in real life, but she’s shown interests in goth bands like Dead Can Dance and a satire of Sisters of Mercy as shown here.

The Brothers of Creation is basically a parody of sisters of Mercy. But not only that, she even brought up on one episode how she got tired of goths being badly judged and stereotyped by others (even being lumped by Masonites, which we all know how controversial Marilyn Manson was back then and how his fanbase ignited a horrible stereotype about goths. He was never a goth artist, but normies had the assumption that all goths are like him and his fanbase based on how they just dress similar to goths) and her annoyance with neckbeards that thirst over goth women just makes her relatable to me. Since sadly, there are many men that creep on goth women like us and we get tired of it.

Now honestly, it really should not be that hard to add some goth music to give for Loona and Octavia. They do that modern day humor so much with Instagram and tik tok, they literally could had use a parody of Dusty from Vision Video (who’s a very popular goth tik toker and even has his own bad that’s very similar to the cure) and given we have knowledge now, this amount of research to write goth characters SHOULD NOT BE THAT HARD.

But you know, all would be forgiven if they don’t have hints of liking goth music if they just made Loona a lot more likable. My main pet peeve with her is that she comes off as a negative stereotype of goths that a lot of us don’t like. It just gives normies a really bad idea of us that we are all shitty people.

So anyways rant over, Vivziepop REALLY needs to try and branch out different music genres or research alternative subcultures better before making goth characters.

[beetle-goth]

please share your goth jeeves thoughts i am very interested

Goth Jeeves thoughts let’s go!!

I’ll start with my least coherent and go towards my most

Honorable mention: music is tough. The first real instance of goth music came in the 50’s and in the one story that took place in the 50’s we hear no mention of music. However, Jeeves is not a fan of popular music or showtunes and shows preference for classical music. Not goth, per se, but Bach and Beethoven do kinda have some goth-y vibes.

First, he’s very into serious literature and poetry. Which isn’t saying much but gothic poetry and literature was very prominent in forming the subculture and it sort of seems like the stuff that Jeeves would be into. He likes philosophy and lots of gothic literature has overarching philosophical thought on the nature of good and evil, man vs creator, the nature of death and mourning. And for poetry, the stuff he quotes in Joy in the Morning makes me feel like he’d enjoy Edgar Allan Poe, especially his more romantic stuff like Annabelle Lee and The Raven

“ "It is indeed, sir. I always feel that nothing is so soothing as a walk in a garden at night."

"Ha!"

"The cool air. The scent of growing things.

That is

tobacco plant which you can smell, sir."

"Is it?"

"The stars, sir."

"Stars?"

"Yes, sir."

"What about them?"

directing your attention to them, sir.

Look how the foor of heaven is thick inlaid with patines of bright gold."

"Jeeves

"There's not the smallest orb which thou beholdest, sir, but in his motion like an angel sings, still guiring to tho young-eyed cherubims."

"Jeeves-

"Such harmony is in immortal souls. But whilst this muddy vesture of decay doth grossly close it in, we cannot hear it."

"Jeeves-

"Sir?" “ —pages 107 and 108

Second: his fashion! My man does not like colors and while we mostly see him in his uniform, I feel we can make some assumptions based on his non-uniform clothes and the way he tries to dress Bertie. His black, calf length outdoor jacket is such a goth win! Bertie doesn’t own anything like that and we rarely see other domestic staff wear something like that so it’s easy to assume that Jeeves picked that out for himself. He will wear tan, we’ve seen him wear tan clothes coming back from his vacations but that could be because of class status and/or the standards of driving clothes. Because when we do see him on his nights off, he’s still wearing clothes that look like his valeting uniform (black waistcoat, black tie, black jacket, ect). Bertie also mostly wears tan when he’s driving bc it hides the dirt better.

What’s interesting is how he tries to get Bertie to wear dark and subdued colors. Lots of navy, lots of greys. It makes you wonder if that’s how he’d choose to dress if he had the option. Also related to clothing, Jeeves shows an interest in both jewelry and silver in Jeeves and the Feudal Spirit and Jeeves in the Offing, respectively. He was a jeweler apprentice briefly under his cousin. Accessories, especially feminine jewelry and silver, is very goth.

Third: he’s simply a spooky bitch! Season 2 episode 5 he immediately knows a local folktale about a boogeyman called Old Boggy who roams the streets. In a town he doesn’t live in, at night where he cannot access a library. Which leads one to believe that he reads about the folklore about places he and Bertie visit with special focus placed on ghost stories. And in Right Ho, Jeeves he has this whole section.

“'You smile, Jeeves. The thought amuses you?'

‘I beg your pardon, sir. I was thinking of a tale my Uncle Cyril used to tell me as a child. An absurd little story, sir, though I confess that I have always found it droll. According to my Uncle Cyril, two men named Nicholls and Jackson set out to ride to Brighton on a tandem bicycle, and were so unfortunate as to come into collision with a brewer's van. And when the rescue party arrived on the scene of the accident, it was discovered that they had been hurled together with such force that it was impossible to sort them out at all adequately. The keenest eye could not discern which portion of the fragments was Nicholls and which Jackson. So they collected as much as they could, and called it Nixon. I remember laughing very much at that story when I was a child, sir'

I had to pause a moment to master my feelings.

'You did, eh?'

'Yes, sir.'

'You thought it funny?'

'Yes, sir.' “ pages 765 and 766 of the Jeeves and Wooster omnibus.

Smiling?? He laughed very much?? This story stuck with him into adulthood?? So much so that he thought it would be funny to tell Bertie this story moments before Bertie has a late night bike ride?? No matter how you interpret this scene, Jeeves is a morbid and spooky bitch for this. Rip Jeeves, you would have loved watching the Final Destination movies.

My point is that if he could, he would have loved being goth. He’s spooky and morbid, he loves dark, subdued colors, his loves poetry and literature with philosophical themes, he likes silver and jewelry and he likes slower, more subdued music without saccharine and cheery lyrics (let us not forget his disgust while Bertie was singing Sunny Disposish)

Hopefully I didn’t forget anything important but I feel like I’ve covered my bases on this headcanon

[gothvideodiaries]

not to be like 'i hate TikTok goths' but why are they always trying to change a 40 year old subculture?? what even are any of these micolabels for makeup and clothes ? wear the white base or not I sure as hell don't care but don't be in my comments like "your makeup is actually neo trad drag goth" cause what the HELL even is that

listen to the damn music, make your own clothes, dress like a freak, express yourself and be true to yourself, it's not that hard

[pastelpinkalien]

Let's talk about casual alt fashion

I feel like this is something that not a lot of people adress, but we all should admit; We can't always dress up, sometimes we need to dress down.

It does not strip away your identity and you're still very much part of whichever subculture that you identify with, even if you don't dress the part all the time. Most alternative subcultures are based on music and ideology anyways.

I would also like to add that pastel goth specifically as a fashion based subculture doesn't need you to always be dressed up either. It even started out as a more casual alternative style, with leggings and oversized sweaters being staple pieces.

We tend to compare ourselves to people we see online, and what most people post is not in any way casual, nor is it an accurate representation of what people look like on a day to day basis. We shouldn't let that intimidate us or make us question our own identity or self expression.

I like to be casual. I have to work 5 days a week, where I have to wear a uniform and I can only add small accents like jewelry to express myself. That change in my life made me dress up less and dress down more, even when I'm not at work. I just don't have the time or energy to dress up just for a regular day off work. I like to dress casual on some days, and I think that I still manage to show my personal style and express myself, even in a very casual outfit like the one shown above.

I think that casual outfits are worth sharing - because I want you to know what I really look like most of the time. I want you to see all aspects of my style and maybe I can inspire you to do the same. Show the real you - show your casual side. I'd love to see some inspiration for my day to day looks, and I hope you can get some out of my posts. ♡

[foundations-of-the-slay]

Reminder that you do not have to dress traditionally goth or alternative to be a real goth or alt person.

Goth is a music-based subculture. Punk and many other alternative scenes are music and belief based.

THE CLOTHES ARE OPTIONAL. YOU ARE NOT A POSER FOR NOT ALWAYS DRESSING “ALT.”

[libertineangel]

i've been thinking a lot abt this idea online that punk and goth are mainly about leftist political beliefs.

The main arguments are punk has always been politically left & all punk scenes have leftist politics. I think (and it looks like u agree that) these are bad arguments due to the fact that it's ahistorical to suggest punk has always been politically left and it doesn't reflect a lot of scenes politics although i wish it did

I would be interested to hear your opinion on 'punk is about political belief' and if you think being a leftist is a necessary condition to being punk. Have you heard any better arguments for it? Do you also think this emphasis online on political belief is a good way of gatekeeping scenes or do you think it makes ppl who are online naïve to how safe punk scenes actually are?

I think that your initial assessment is right and that it's a load of bollocks haha, it's a thoroughly rose-tinted idealistic view of subculture that's not only ahistorical but actively detrimental to attempts to examine and challenge the unsavoury elements of the scene, we don't learn anything and don't actually put up a real fight if we just decide to No True Scotsman away all the shit we don't like.

I can, to an extent, understand how this view came about - for one, these are music-based subcultures but with venues closing all over, the music industry being extremely unwilling to give anything outside the mainstream a chance and the death of alternative music magazines it's harder to actually find & get involved in the scene compared to, say, the days of John Peel, so these people's experience of the subculture is largely online, with all the sample bias that comes with who's likely to also be in that online space. There's also a plain wishful thinking element which I can find sympathy for, subculture is in general for those who don't fit in and want to feel comfortable in a community of fellow outcasts, so of course the frustrated leftist teenagers are gonna want their newfound social home to feel like they've always belonged there and be reticent to acknowledge that it really is not and never has been as good & pleasant as they want to believe.

Understandable as I do find this disposition though, as mentioned it is indeed wrong. Political belief is by no means a prerequisite to being punk, the entire reason Nazi Punks Fuck Off was written is because the Nazi Punks in question really are punks, it is a music-based subculture above all else and plenty of the music has no political content whatsoever, the online conception of punk as an outspoken leftist DIY scene in entirety speaks to the Anglophone internet's USAmerican cultural hegemony because it conflates the entire subculture with the 80s Epitaph & Dischord scenes specifically. As to whether the idea is helpful, yeah I'm inclined to think not for exactly the reason you've given, it might be good for keeping the online spaces well-moderated (provided people can pick up on dogwhistles, which considering many of these people are white USAmerican left social democrats I wouldn't bet on) but if any of these kids actually go to any gigs, especially of any classic bands, they could well be in for a very unpleasant awakening when they find out there's people who've been punks for longer than they've been alive and think the scene's their last bastion against political correctness and gender nonsense.

[helluva-dump]

So I shared these on my Instagram and was gonna share it on my art blog but eh, I think I’m just gonna share these wips here.

Gonna do Helluva boss redesigns for fun :) I don’t actually dislike their original designs, but I wanted to do a more goth touch to them.

It’s funny, Loona was always my least favorite character in the show but I kind of dig the design she has. (Except her hair, it looks too much like Jay Jay) but since the show badly wants to label her and Octavia being a goth, I actually wanted to really show that side of them.

Goth is a music based subculture after all if you guys recall my post here https://www.tumblr.com/xxlittle-miss-horrorxx/723578693472157696/so-a-very-minor-nitpick-on-helluva-boss-i-know-i

I wanted to base Loona’s redesign off of a Deathrocker. Deathrock is one of the subgenres of goth music that’s kind of more punk like and a bit of a heavy sound, but I can see her being into Gothic rock too. I was kind of inspired by Lovearts redesign with making Loona a Siberian Husky and gave her scratches and ear hole since I’m sure she went through rough patches on the pound.

One thing I wish Vivziepop did is have Loona be interesting in DIY or going to thrift stores. Thing about goth subculture is that diy and thrifting is a huge thing that a lot of us do. It helps us be more creative with our looks and taking reused clothes to give them a gothic touch. Like since she’s a hellhound and hellhounds are very poor, I feel like it would make sense for her to get into diy.

I imagine Blitzo gets strict with her about spending money on expensive clothes from Stylish Occult, and knowing her, it’s there’s a Will, there’s a way. So I think she tries to thrift for clothing and customizes them to look similar to the clothes they have from big gothic brand clothes.

As for Octavia, I went with a nugoth fashion and based her outfit off of modern gothbands like Lebonan Hanover. I’m sure she can afford a lot of that clothing, but just prefers to keep her look a bit minimalistic. I do plan to give her more of a perky goth style of a look if she really wants to do fun things with friends and if she has to be formal, I think she would dress in more romantic goth fashion when she’s around her people. But for her usual getup, she may keep it a bit minimalistic.

Nothing will change much with her character other than maybe having friends of her own that help her cope with their family struggles. I know I pan to rewrite how she meets Loona and how they both bond over having over bearing dads and what not.

I also have a headcanon, she doesn’t really like being around snobby rich people. She was always warned to stay away from imps, but she would sneak out to meet some friends of hers and she feels more like herself when she’s around them. I think being a princess of goetia, she may have a lot of fake friends around the royals that only befriend her for their own benefits. So her being around with imps and hellhounds in private, she could feel more peace and solitude with them.

Yes, I based Loona’s shirt off of Sisters of Mercy and gave Octavia a Lebonan Hanover necklace. Just because I wanna show hints of them really being into goth music. I think Octavia would love to find tickets to some bands they both enjoy for the both of them to get a front row seat :)