#Gorean Saga

[therealbeachfox]

So, I know the percentage of Tumblr users with the knowledge overlap to properly answer this question is low, but I have to ask it anyways.

Is it valid to argue that The Gorean Saga/Chronicles of Counter-Earth books are the first Harem Isekai?

[my-t4t-romance]

people complain about isekai animes but I feel like we don't complain about the gor books enough

[vavuska]

The basic canvas used by John Norman to write the very deep dialogues between Tarl and his random female partner

"I'm your slave, Tarl Cabot!"

"Ehm, no. Thank you. Slavery is bad"

"No, I belong to you. You are my master"

"No, you are a free woman. Slavery is immoral"

...

"Ok, you are my slave"

Few pages after

"How you dare? I'm a free woman!"

"No, you are a Slave Girl! I'm your Master!"

"I love you, Tarl!"

I don't find the Gor novels controversial or antifeminist, because the main female partners are usually depicted as strong willed and smart. It's not even that disrespectful about women's autonomy, because the author gave to his male protagonist (Tarl Cabot, a human from modern-day Earth) a liberal and modern sensibility about slavery: Tarl is deeply against slavery and in every book I red so far, he frees slaves (in Outlaw of Gor he organizes a slave revolution against the oppressive matriarchal monarchy and also helped Lara, the former Queen, to develop a social consciousness and admitting the unfair parts of her city) and help oppressed women to become indipendent, self aware and express their true self. It's just a little paternalistic, but not misogynist. It's not even full of annoying sex scene as a person could think and sex is never described directly, at least in books I red so far. I think that Laurell K. Hamilton's sagas are more controversial and with more sex than actual plot. I the Gor novel there is a huge world-building and I love the way in which fantasy meets sci-fi novels.

[jediplinth]

I went to college with someone named after a character from the Gorean saga. That was an interesting choice by his folks.

There was that post which ended with the message "don't name your kids after fictional characters" but I had the idea of "what if you control those characters?"

So the message would be "don't name your kids about fictional characters you don't own".

So you could be an author who names their kids after characters from their books.

But then I had the terrible thought: what if the kid becomes estranged from their parents, and the parent writes new books specifically to get back at them?

Like someone is talking to a coworker, "man have you read the latest Legacy of Starfall book? It's a mess! Xogthar the Mighty loses their sword, and then it turns out they've secretly been a racist pedophile this whole time!"

Their coworker, Xogthar the Accountant, just looks into the camera like they're on the office.

[thebadgerssett]

Some rough layouts and profile images I never posted here (in full) for my ‘Wildlife of Gor’ project. 

[artsytoad]

Frank Kelly Freas, Marauders of Gor

www.artsytoad.tumblr.com

[aspidersreflection]

((I’m still interested in turning Wesley into the Green Goblin.

I’m still figuring out his backstory and why he ended up the way he ended up, but I think that Wes’s mom was severely depressed and had no way to seek help for it, so she neglected her son’s emotional needs greatly. His father was a womanizer and serial cheater with a huge ego, who, despite his flaws, was the one who was there when Wesley needed him...or, at least was there to distract him with shiny new toys and fun trips. So Wes grew up to idolize and want to be like his father. He also probably read the Gorean saga by John Norman at a young age and that further warped his views on how to treat women.

Selene was a beautiful girl who had a nurturing personality, and by the time he’d met her, Wes was in deep with the Black Curtain and was so used to that lifestyle that he made himself numb to all of the bad stuff they were doing. They were funding his experiments and letting him do what he wanted as long as they kept making his designer drugs for them.

Selene became an emotional crutch for Wesley and he isolated her because he was so terrified of her leaving him. He convinced himself that Selene was the only person who ever would or could love him, but he also took his frustration and insecurity and rage out on her because she could “never possibly understand the stress he’s going through.”

What he did to Lori Jean was out of rage and desperation. If he couldn’t have Selene, then nobody got to have Selene, and now that he thinks she’s dead, he’s putting his scientific prowess to use by trying to create gadgets to stop the new vigilante putting their best enforcers in the hospital.))

[systlin]

Godspeed you poor fucker

Who wants a list of absolutely batshit fucked things that are in the Gor novels that didn't make it into Lightning?

Like there is some worldbuilding that we lost our fuckin MINDS over that are flat out FUCKWILD but I simply chose to skip over them or they didn't make it in for other reasons

[weatherman667]

Willing Suspension of Disbelief and Author Authoritarianism

This primarily focuses on not!StarWars, but certainly allows to everything else.

In order for a story, ANY sort, to be of any value, you need willing suspension of disbelief from the audience.

So, what happens, now, is the author now has an audience.  The author decides to screw over all of their fans, invalidating, in the case of Star Wars, 50+ years of expanded universe materials.  A lot of people’s response was that they own Star Wars, and ergo Disney is allowed to do anything they want.

Spiritually, yes.

Legally, no, as authors actually have moral rights.  What this means is that just because they bought the rights to Star Wars, doesn’t mean they had to right to change anything already existing in Star Wars.  They did have the right to create new movies that could ignore whatever parts of canon they wanted.

This was legal.  But what Disney did was coerce ANYONE who questioned their interpretation of Star Wars.  This is illegal.  The problem is you have a huge number of individuals being attacked, and Disney is a transnational corporation.

So, legally, not, they could not.

But, let’s assume there was no coercion involved, and they just produced shitty sequels, well, this is where the WILLING Suspension of Disbelief comes in.  If you are HOSTILE to your audience, then the key ingredient of willing suspension of disbelief, willingness, is absent.

Let’s take the Gor / Counter-Earth Sage

It’s a fantastic planetary romance story that everyone should read.

And also a manual for male-dominant sexual lifestyle, to the point that there are people who literally live a Gorean lifestyle.

Now, while the psychosexual belief that all women want to be completely, totally, unconditionally dominated by men, was always present in the Counter-Earth Saga, it started as a standard fantasy/planetary romance cliché about beautiful women being sex slaves, often being either rescued by the main character, or instead become happy to be his slaves.  This has literally been part of Human culture since the earliest Human writings.

But, as the stories progressed, it became a larger and larger part of the story, until... it became the story.

For everyone who likes Speculative Fiction, I highly recommend the series, 

BUT

Where the series goes off the rails is entirely up to the audience.  At some point it just becomes porn that LITERALLY spawns sex cults.

Now, back to Star Wars.  When they created TFA, they gave the audience a choice.  You can either enjoy the 50+ years of Expanded Universe, which I have spent LITERALLY MY ENTIRE LIFE involved in, or the new movies.

I choose the former.  It turns out the new movies were absolutely shit, so I was right to choose the EU.  I have no willing suspension of disbelief for the new movies, and watching any part of them is physically painful.  It’s also physically painful to watch them completely undermine everything the the existence characters have ever done.

Luke goes from founding the New Jedi Order to murderous hermit.  Han Solo barely exists, and the fact that his family was supposed to be front and centre for the entirety of the new conflict was ignored.  Princess Leia became General Leia, and there were massive campaigns that were promoting it.

Princess Leia was already a General.

Princess outranks General.

Leia was the Diplomat, and they kept trying to force her into the young hero archetypes.  The main and prequel trilogies beat us over the head with the importance of diplomacy.  We have three main characters, the young hero, (Luke), the loveable rogue, (Han), and the DIPLOMAT, and throughout the entire series, diplomacy is shown to be the greatest weapon, to the point that Leia could summon armies to her head and was treated as the spiritual leader fo the Alliance to Restore the Republic.

Leia was LITERALLY the inspirational girl power character for at least a couple generations.  Their claim that she is NOW, FINALLY inspirational shits on everything she has ever done.

The actual leader of the Alliance to Restore the Republic was also a woman, Mon Mothma, who also gets thrown under the bus.

Along with all of the female Jedi from the EU, including Han and Leia’s daughter, who was the centrepiece of numerous stories.

There have been other series where... I just flat out ignore the sequels.

FFXIII.  I’m not going to say it was an especially good game, but it had a lot of potential, and ensemble cast of extremely interesting characters.  They then threw away all of the interesting characters and created a terrible story, and adding a feature that made the battle system even worse.  I pulled a better plot out of my ass for a sequel.

Tales of Xillia.  The sequel adds a Mary Sue that is forced upon you.  But, Xillia forced it’s character upon you?  Actually, no, it didn’t.  You had absolutely no obligation to have any character in your party.  The Mary Sue was also forcibly added to all of the lingering character stories, so I couldn’t even enjoy them without the Mary Sue fucking things up.  Oh, and then they gave him a gun, because that in no way makes him a Mary Sue.  https://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=140

Tranformers:  Prime.  It actually explains what the hell Female Autobots are.  It’s also a fantastic series, with a diverse cast of incredibly interesting characters, incredibly high stakes, great action, heartful stories.  The kids actually have to earn their place in your heart.  Well, the sequel gets rid of the kids, who have become the heart of the story, (likely because the Cybertronians have been fighting a civil war for longer than Terra has existed that literally left their planet a lifeless husk), and broke the finally established continuity.

RWBY:  Writing turned shit after V5.  Now, yeah, there was definitely some troubles in V4 and V5, but at least they were holding on to the established story, characters, and world.  V6 had NOTHING happen, no story, no character arcs, no action, and V7 had a TDS plot that ended up with the most purely motivated character shooting a 10 year old boy because of reasons, while destroying any claim to moral superiority or hero status that the eponymous characters had.

Star Trek:  STD / JJ Abrams verse / Picard.  They literally called it STD.  They somehow forgot that Star Trek had a Black captain, female captain, first interracial kiss on US television, first lesbian kiss on US television, and literally sanctioned by MLK.  Picard also

Has nothing to do with TNG.

Has a character who is nothing like Picard.

Does not feature an Enterprise.

[bedlamgames]

Q&A #100

Yes, been a hundred of this things. Totally a meaningless milestone which is one of my oldest tags on here (assuming any are left after the purge...) still I thought I’d do something for it. 

Specifically I’ve gone back over the old Q&A’s and found some favourite questions and answers which I’ll be including in this after the usual round of outstanding ones. Possibly also with some extra commentary where appropriate. 

Anonymous said: Hey. Any pair of characters connected by an Owned relationship/reputation seems to crash the game if you use either one of them on an assignment. Any chance of this being fixed?

- That should be sorted in yesterday’s update. 

Anonymous said: Got a Forest Goblin with both Dancer and Clumsy. This seems like a very strange combination, but imagining it kind of makes me want to laugh my head off.

- Agreed I think that just works due to being amusing. Less poetry in motion and more of a limerick. 

Anonymous said: In No Haven 0.871 the trait " Elementalist: Air " does not appear when using the estimate value function.

- Cheers for pointing out that oversight. Will sort.

Anonymous said: Hi sory english isn't my native langage, In No Have 0.871 TF Edition I have aquired a slaver But with a bug first i don't know how i acquire her and two she had noting , no name no perk jus a little description i will copy the full examine optin on it : - - - - ExamineName: Race: - Sex: - Status: - Reputation: Traits: Condition: 0 Will: 0 Estimated Value: 0 has a flat chest, a regular pussy, and has an unremarkable ass. She is the same size as most goblins, and .She is . 

- That looks like an empty character in all respects. I believe there was an issue with Ritual Casting where that could happen and is now sorted. If you see it happen again please let me know what you were doing when they appeared.��

Anonymous said: Hey Bedlam, watched stream where you discussed not selling slaves debuff, thing is i always imagined slavers being in this business for fun and pleasure first, and gold second. I mean why else would they agree to live in some Skyrim style, long abandoned really, hard to get to fort in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by hills and marshes(at least that how i imagine it)? So maybe you could make something like,"no new slaves, or slave training for X days, getting bored" or something like that?

- It wouldn’t be too harsh at all. Just a bit of a poke to encourage that you’re business model is based around being a slaver over the leader disappearing to the coast for a week and returning with suspiciously large amounts of gold. In that case you’ve got to think that your slavers might feel that they’re surplus to requirements :D

Anonymous said: I hope you're happy for taking so many hours of my life away from me lol. But playing this again; got a question about NH. Any plans on making some rival groups that we can interact with? Diplomacy, getting tribute, ect. It would be kinda cool to have rivals that push you along 

Glad you’re enjoying it! 

Likely yes. There’s ways currently now to set up a few ways to get tribute every so often. More groups though who are more hostile than the not-witches in the marshlands or the mistress of the Ensnared Rose are sure to be a thing sooner or later. 

doof-ex-machina said: Have you read the Gorean saga by John Nornan? If yes, did it influence your vision of the No Haven world? Gor explores a legal female-oriented slave system, yheah, but there are pretty close similarities with NH in regards to the numbers of ‘fodder’ and the ways of training. Anyway, me personally thinks your world is even better because magic and draenei/succubi boobs, duh.

I haven’t but I am aware of them in general. 

NH is a lot more equal opportunities than Gor where males doing it to females, females doing it to males, and all possible variations of that including others like futanari and sissies are likely to happen. Still high praise indeed, thanks!

And now onto some old questions starting with one from before where I realised beginning to combine these might be a good idea. 

onedrift from 2015:  Trying this again...what's your coder fuel of choice? Red bull, Monster, coffee? None of the above? Soon to be bimbofied slavemakers want to know!

- Heh, totally giving my nationality away (if it wasn’t blatantly obvious already) but the fuel of choice is copious amounts of Earl Grey tea.

Anonymous from 2015: Hiya, been a fan of your work for a long time, captions and games thanks for making them, but a question regarding whorelocks revenge, is it possible to get the tangle infection and bonds of insanity? in all my time playing them I never had either I dont think.

- Not in the current version. Basically I wasn’t happy with the implementation in terms of how they were removed so I disabled them for a bit till I can sort it out… which unfortunately has lasted quite some time.

Soon as I got this No Haven update done they’re top of my list of things to sort in Whorelocks.

(Oh zogging hell. Still not done that yet... Extenuating circumstance for sure with NH taking off and WR was still in RAGS at that point, but even so)

Anonymous from 2015: This is probably a poor place to respond to your open-ended poll question, but have you looked into Twine?

- I’ve looked at Twine and when I one day get round to Rough Landing 3 it’s definitely going to be done using it, but to me it looks like an incredibly poor fit for working on No Haven.

(Oh past me why would say such a thing even if it did make a lot of sense at the time. Let’s hope that guy was wrong)

Anonymous from Q&A #1: Title image is hype, cant wait for next update. recall you mentioned that you had enchantments planed for the update after next (or something there abouts) how far ahead have you planned ahead and any spoilers for the update after this one? :D

- Why thank you! I have several pages bullet pointed of what I have planned along with what I have in my head. For stuff not in the next update I’d say not counting more slave training assignments and options and more assignments in the other areas the big bits of content outstanding are;

Way more potions. (Still do do)

Enchantment/cursing of items system.  (Also still do do)

Crafting Devices. (Also, also still do do)

Ways to manage encampments when they get to large by sending slavers/slaves to new areas to provide ongoing gold/supplies along with the occasional assignment. (Oh dear, also, also still do do)

More stuff for you like going on every assignment, bad ends for some of them, more interactions, being enslaved and so on. Basically lots more sub and also some dom content for when you’re not managing the encampment. (Woo progress made! Bad ends for some assignments going on are indeed a thing. Still work to do as I do want to give Crossbones and Into the Depths the QAYL treatment sometime)

Special events that will occur every so often that will affect things be it for good and bad. This will include a way to get a lost slaver back though perhaps forever altered by their experiences. (Woo again this is done. Definitely could do with more done with)

Encampment reputation to reflect a slaver’s standing with how the other slaver’s see them. This will includes slavers becoming slaves and visa versa. (On a roll now as a great deal of this implemented)

More biomancy options and improving thanks to a multi-part assignment. There will also be other multi-part story based assignments. (Partially done and the biomancy multi-part assignment has been started)

And a bunch more basically but those are the priorities after this next update. Probably not all in the same update though.

Anonymous from Q&A #6: I would play the hell out of Paranoia set in No Haven.  

- Temptation to give slavers and you conflicting secret societies and agendas rising.

Y’know like…

Dire Panthers: A mottley band of young savage orcs, amazons and trolls out to raise hell by breaking stuff, setting stuff on fire and generally being a nuisance to everyone.

The Cooperative: A dedicated group of Frozen Queen cultists out to oppose the Human Empire by working together to make things better for the common people… till you know the Queen awakens and buries all the land in eternal ice.

Mage Smashers: Magic iz like wrong an’ stuff! We smash dem in dere stupid face till dey not so smart.

Fellowship-Fel: The denizens that lurk beyond our reality and infect our dreams with tainted nightmares are our friends! We must expose ourselves to as much corruption as possible to make ourselves like them. We see no flaws in this plan whatsoever, you see the chorus of whispers in our minds entirely agrees with us.

Psion: No changes need to be made whatsoever from the original version.

Trekksters: …and I think that’s enough of that, or further evidence of why I shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near RAGS or indeed tumblr when I have my old sourcebooks nearby :D

(Also apologies to most of you who have no idea what that was about!) (This is still far too much of a good idea)

Anonymous from Q&A #17: 2/2 and another hilarious one: Your succubus slave Jaeil was not looking so hot right now so Virholen just held her close and told Jaeil that everything would be alright. Jaeil was oddly quiet everytime you looked in on them and you wonder if they have resigned themselves to their fate. Condition: 45 (Change: 20) - Will: 47 (Change: 15)

After their mistreatment Jaeil sees no reason not to only care for them self as clearly no one else will leaving them hardened and even outright cruel. usc++

- You win best bug report in ages, that is beautiful :D

Anonymous from Q&A #37: Will there be other spirit races in the game besides wisps, such as undynes, gnomes, and dryads? And finally Im new to patreon. I decided to pay for the your character teir but ask for a unique because I dont really understand it. Is the “play your character” a scenario or what? And where do I go to talk with you on what I would like for it?

- True story, I had to google undyines and for ages I couldn’t work out what you were referring too as so many of the results were of that character from Undertale :D

Undines themselves would be no, but I do have a water spirit of a kind planned. (Still do!) Gnomes no, as I’m happy with Hakh Dwarven and the various Goblins as my short races. Dryads absolutely yes, and will be one of the advanced races. See the last Q&A for more details of those.

Thank you for your support! Those options are for those that want to play a specific character that isn’t available in the standard options or design a specific slaver that you can have in your encampment. If you want to see some examples of ones others have asked for before on the playable character front then Orc Wright Raptor, Lago’Mae Scholar or Goblin Underground Potioneer would be a good ones to look at to start off with.

As for the unique slavers then pretty much any of the slavers available under Strong Right Arm/Recruiter.

How much detail you want to go into is up to you. If you want to say oh I just want a Kitsune lady who likes to pole-dance then I’d put something together for your approval, or you can go full on detailing everything about them from their art, description, traits etc. and I’ll work with you to the point I’m happy having it as an option in the game. (Note: If you want an entirely new race like the Golems you need to go for the lore tier given the significantly larger amount of work involved)

For discussing please send me a message on patreon and we can take it further from there.

One thing to bare in mind is that patreon only charges at the end of the month, and so while I’m more than willing to talk it out, if you want to me to do a lot of work on your request I’m going to need to see a pledge go through first. It sucks I know, but this is the unfortunate reality of the internet that alas trust can only go so for.

I’m always happy to discuss things though, I really am, and some people have asked to pay some of their pledge upfront via paypal to get round this which is not a problem if that’s what you want to do.

valhallaimmortan from Q&A #47: I managed to get a elven smith who makes fancy armor that is usually masterwork quality, and equipped my ‘Basher’ Squad with it, the Basher’s are all Ogre’s who I recruited and I have a alchemist who seriously creeps me out with how many petrification potions he has been pumping out. I also like the Lago'mae Scholar how now the Lizard man is using her as his new project… poor Scholar… and I got to ask is it actually possible to recruit a keldan from the keldan mission in the city?

- I love this question, absolutely adore it, and you made the patron who requested the lizardman unique really happy when I mentioned it to them. If people want to send in their favourite/amusing/interesting slavers/slaves that have resulted from generation and gameplay I might do a tumblr post series on them called ‘Tell me about your Character’.

As to the question yes she should be on the critical result.

Anonymous from Q&A #61: Silly question. For clothing and armor, what in your mind is the major difference between micro, and impractical? I can’t really visualize a difference between the two when reading armor/clothing descriptions. Scandalously short is divergent enough that it creates its own image for me. The other two seem as if they would be interchangeable, but they aren’t since there is a distinction so what is it?

- Yay silly questions are always the best questions. Okay micro is where you have outfits that are recognizable bits of clothing but it’s incredibly brief so a skirt that’s more a belt than actually trying to cover anything whatsoever and/or a bikini top so teeny-weeny that it doesn’t even cover all of the nipples. Completely impractical though is the kind of clothing beloved by a certain kind of fantasy art which just doesn’t make any kind of sense whatsoever where looking good trumps any pretension of realism, and the only way it could stay on is either with copious amounts of glue or magic being involved.

Anonymous from Q&A #66: Hello again! I’m the guy who asked about the post-slave [slaver] titles. I’m going to very respectfully push the idea that ex-slaves should get unique titles. First, I honestly think having the unique titles is cooler. It’s more interesting to send a Chosen, an Acolyte, and a Hedge-Witch on an assignment than it is to send three Slavers. It’s a rarity thing, sort of? If you get a character who qualifies for one of those things, it’s a BIG DEAL. Secondly, it already changes with jobs, so…

- Alright, alright, you’ve twisted my arm :)

That should now be included for the most recent update along with a couple of new titles so that all of the more rare traits (not counting crafting ones) should have one. Let me know if there’s any issues as while it was a fairly straightforward change I didn’t get a chance to test that particular bit.

Thanks for reading and here’s to another hundred of these. 

[myst2077-blog]

Why i follow

Alot time when i follow a account its not because i like the message its more that i am not the normal feel string morals i like to hear all sides the argument or i just find some concept interesting i hate myself more than i should because my interests are nit Always moral but i also can be naive especially my views on things like quote on quote 'slavery' i read things like gor saga or captive in the dark the second being a story when someone is kidnaped as a slave in some Arabian country but she gets Stockholm syndrome a mental illness when you start emphasis or love your captors this can be caused by a desire to feel safe by them or to not have to be responsible anymore , i dont see anything wrong with slavery if i mean a strict if the owner is right its nit taken from your family its nit forced its a stern master or mistress that cares and protect whats theirs when the slave knows its safe and loved i guess you cant call this slavery though can you its more submission but to the gorean idea a kajira or slave girl in their life style outside the books is someone who wants to please not because they forced but because its who they are gor has a idea that we are what we are you are yourself some people born to lead some follow this is not gender or anything like that but it how you are your personality your strengths and weaknesses. Gorean often hate to be classed with kinks and fetishes as its alot more philosophy and to be gorean does not mean you have to be of have a kajira not at all its just following the ideas So i managed go off topic my point is if i follow does not mean i am supporting your cause or agree with you in anyway in a goreans mind ideas or superiority or equality are both petty scrabbles of boys not men everyone is different strengths and weaknesses nit race nor sex effects that besides some genetic evolution traits that can even vary in members of a 'race' and yes I use race lighty as what we now call race is not by definition a race their not enough genetic differences to class skin colour as race

[mayradeanfloralcity]

Quarry of Gor (Gorean Saga Book 35) by John Norman [PDF EBOOK EPUB MOBI Kindle][Read] Kindle Quarry of Gor (Gorean Saga Book 35) by John Norman

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[systlin]

So. Say someone were to have an OC so overpowered they can literally decide not to die even with a very big knife through their eye socket. And say that same hypothetical someone wanted to throw that OC at Gor. What, perchance, is the best place for that person to do research without needing to bleach their brain?

And I demand a link to this fic

[natalieironside]

The Counter-Earth Saga (or "the Gor books" b/c they're set on a planet called Gor and usually have "...of Gor" somewhere in the title) is a self-insert male-power-fantasy series of sword & sorcery books that's particularly noteworthy for being just so aggressively and egregiously horny on like every page. Goreans are a BDSM subculture of folks who like to recreate the master/slave dynamics from the books in the boudoir.

Now you know. And you can't un-know.

Oh my GOD reading abt Gor triggered my fight or flight bc there is a subsection of the kink community that believes Gorean philosophy is the One Twue Way™ to have a D/s dynamic. There’s Discourse abt it on fetlife it’s fucking wild

1. Fascinating

2. what