#Forgery of the Phoenix

[jolieeason]

December 2024 Wrap-Up

Personal Highlights from this month: Christmas!! New Year’s Eve!! Miss R’s 5th-grade class graduated from DARE, and the SRO had a ceremony for them. It was adorable. Each kid got a T-shirt and a certificate. The DARE graduation was followed up by the 5th grade presenting states in the library. Each kid had a state (people were doubled up because the class is big), and they had to convince the…

[samaranth-the-fleshweaver]

I often thing about the dawning horror mia fey must feel from the afterlife, as, in the snippets she pieces together from maya and pearl's channelings of her, she realizes that most of the important people in her life have to come to care about and like the wretched little pissbaby she faced off against in her first trial.

[oodlyenough]

finally met simon's meaner hotter gayer sister and she rules. athena and (inexplicably) phoenix both clutched their pearls here but this is now the sixth ace attorney game i've played and she's so real for this. japanifornia is a dystopian hellhole

[hyperfixatinator]

I have a few doubts about how Phoenix could've forged that bloody fifth ace in AA4. I'm not outright denying he did it, but if so it's probably different from how Turnabout Trump framed it.

Let's start with what we know logically about Phoenix and Zak's last poker game.

There were two decks of cards; one red, and one blue.

Each deck had four of each card. This means each deck started with four aces.

The last game used the red deck.

The above point means the fifth ace Orla snuck into Phoenix's hand was a red card, making five red aces in total that game.

Kristoph took the real (fifth) bloody ace with him out of the crime scene.

Based on this and other information we have from this trial, I have two questions:

When did Phoenix forge the bloody ace?

Where did Phoenix get the red ace he used for forgery?

Phoenix said that he picked it up while he was at the crime scene, but this contradicts the evidence!

There were five red aces in play at the time of the murder. Kristoph already took one, and using a blue ace was out of the question. If Phoenix really took a red ace before the police arrived, he would've only had four to choose from.

Yet, all four were still at the crime scene after Phoenix was arrested. They were even submitted into evidence by the prosecution at the trial.

Unless there was somehow an unspoken sixth ace in the red deck for no reason, this tells us Phoenix lied about taking a red ace with him that night. Plus, having forged evidence on his person during arrest and detainment could've ended terribly for him.

He couldn't have forged it before the match since he wouldn't have known he needed an ace card at the time. And his pockets were clean when Zak searched him.

This leads us to believe the forged bloody ace was created sometime after Phoenix was arrested. But how can he do that when he's stuck under surveillance in the detention center?

The secret is Trucy.

(this is where it progressively dips further into headcanon territory)

With Phoenix locked up, Trucy would be the most likely candidate to pull off a stunt like this. As a magician, Trucy is all about illusions, and she's not above using them to get loved ones out of legal trouble.

Trucy's magic profession also means poker cards are a natural tool to have in her arsenal. Cards are her "stock and trade" after all.

As Phoenix put it, it's a naughty magician's trick. One she felt was necessary to save the only family she had left.

Now, here's why I still think Phoenix could've been telling the truth about forging the bloody ace himself. Even if Trucy was the mastermind of this plan, I don't think Phoenix would let her be the one to actually forge it for an important reason.

Apollo.

Him unlocking his latent perceiving ability was crucial for the trial, but it could've also become a double edged sword.

Phoenix only had his prodigy daughter for reference as to how strong a perceiver's senses are. If Phoenix ever had to lie about being the forger to protect Trucy, the risk of Apollo seeing through it would've been too much to stomach.

Even after the trial's over, it's better for Apollo to hold a grudge against Phoenix instead of Trucy. He couldn't let their secret sibling bond die before it could start.

So what better way to hide a lie than to make it true? All Phoenix would have to do is put a blot of red ink on a card Trucy snuck in during visiting hours and let her work her magic.

It's a technicality, but at least Phoenix can distract Apollo with a custom-made truth.

[cornertheculprit]

sorry i'm copying and pasting the krisnix quotes that drive me insane from that ask i answered because i wanted them separate and also they DRIVE ME INSANE: "...you look well, phoenix wright." "you, too...gavin."/"i killed a man named "smith" with a bottle because i am an evil human being. ...isn't that enough?" "(...not for me, it isn't. i need to know why you did it, gavin.)"/"for seven years we've been friends... ...and yet, i still don't understand you." "but wright, your "friendship" toward me was never pure. ...you suspected me then as you still do now, don't you?" "...honestly, right now, i'm not sure what i think."/"...after that, he was killed. and i asked you to help me. ...because i remembered your kindness back when everyone had turned on me."

[askaceattorney]

Dear Anonymous,

It would depend on the intention of said forged evidence. If it's intended to be used to prove forgery, then yes it would be submitted as evidence of forged evidence.

However, if it is forged and requested to be submitted as evidence as if it wasn't, then it would be illegal. It is only if the evidence is submitted as evidence of forgery or forgery attempt that it would be submitted as such with that very fact.

- The Judge

[seratlantisite]

edgeworth decides to get phoenix, a guy who canonically wears rock band shirts as his undershirts for his SUITS, a vinyl album for his birthday so he asks klavier for a band rec and klavier gets more freaked out over finding the perfect choice than phoenix's own husband

[mekatrio]

KRISTOPH DIDNT KILL ZAK IN A FIT OF ANGER RRAGGGHHHH IT WASNT A CRIME OF PASSION

IT WAS CALCULATED!!! kristoph isnt an emotional killer!!!! kristoph is meticulous to a fault, which is why we hv never been able to convict him thru conventional means!! the "decisive" evidence used to convict him both times have been illegal (bloody ace and yellow letter), he has only killed when he thinks he can get away with it! also he had to have been hiding in the hydeout for quite some time, waiting for an opportunity to present itself, the opportunity then being when olga is unconscious and phoenix had left the room. this is not a murder committed in the heat of the moment!!

and also like what would be his motive if it was just a spur of rage, like did just seeing zak again enraged him to the point of murder? firstly, kristoph isnt that emotional!!!! he doesnt break down in 4-1; yes hes angered and slams his fist down once, but its only in 4-4 where he loses it entirely... but he mostly kept his composure in 4-1! thats important to note! and also there are less emotional motives that makes more sense, like the fact that zak is the only person aside from klavier who could prove that kristoph was his initial attorney, as that information isnt kept in public record;

and leaving zak alive and unaccounted left the possibility of implicating kristoph for the forged page from 7 years ago!! this was a CALCULATED murder!!

[starboundsingularities]

the jurist system seems really cool i hope they keep using it :-)

27 notes

🌈 lawsbian Follow

hey girl. am i a suspect. because you can "court" me any time

🧊 just--ice Follow

try.

🌈 lawsbian Follow

hey girl. am i a suspect. because you can "try" me any time

🌈 lawsbian Follow

hey girl. are you a lawyer. because you can "try" to "court" me any time

🌈 lawsbian Follow

hey girl. am i on trial.

🌈 lawsbian Follow

i'm determined to make this work btw

🌈 lawsbian Follow

hey girl. law

🔪 violencekilling Follow

hey girl. are you a murderer. because ow ough ouch agh stop stabbing me

732,390 notes

🌟 rockliker270 Follow

guys watch out hes gonna shelly de kill you

293,485 notes

🎀 copiicat Follow

they called me to the witness stand and the defense attorney just shouted "BOOOOOO WE HATE YOUR PUSSY"

43,618 notes

🧇 edible-evidence Follow

look if i was on trial and the guy prosecuting me started advertising his music i'd just plead guilty. avoid the embarrassment of getting put in prison by a guy who basically used the trial to say "this blew up btw here's my soundcloud"

97,384 notes

⚖️ courtofpublicopinions Follow

💞 lawveyourself Follow

didnt miles edgeworth defend someone in a case once

⛲ fountainoftruth Follow

do you know the difference between a prosecutor and a defense attorney

270,934 notes

💟 longingforyou Follow

being rivals isn't enough i need to kiss you

💟 longingforyou Follow

who the fuck is evil magistrate

💟 longingforyou Follow

STOP TAGGING THIS WITH LAWYERS?????

584,769 notes

🐈 nyattorney Follow

they hired a guy to stand in court and shout "GET A ROOM YOU TWO" whenever the lawyers start getting a little too homoerotic

976 notes

💥 courtroomchaos Follow

your honor i know all the evidence points to my client being guilty. but come on you have to admit he kinda ate right

💼 courtofwaw Follow

mia fey when they had phoenix wright on trial

20,475 notes

🔍 thuthseeker Follow

ok hot take but i feel like these lawyers should maybe not be allowed to drag literal children to court with them?? how many people have gotten genuinely actually fucking SHOT in court and they're just ok bringing fucking 8 year olds in?

12,475 notes

💼 courtofwaw Follow

happy almost christmas to all who celebrate

💫 dizzydreamers124 Follow

it's march

🎄 holidazed Follow

happy almost christmas :)

😈 knownjaywalker Follow

WHO is putting this on my dash

��️ cymorgue Follow

STOP POSTING THIS. IT IS JUNE.

🐼 pandastar91 Follow

ITS ALMOST CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

1,589,589 notes

💽 platinumcourtrecord Follow

evil gavinners be like. innocent hate. this is a nothing post

19,384 notes

🥚 eggvidenced Follow

STOP asking me about the dl-6 post idc idc look even phoenix wright forged evidence once shut up

📕 lexculpatory Follow

he didn't forge the evidence, though. it was kristoph gavin who ordered the forgery. this was covered in the trial of vera misham. if you're going to try to compare yourself to well known figures, you could at least check the veracity of your claims.

🥚 eggvidenced Follow

yeah well. he might have. on a different case or something.

73 notes

🃏 thecourtjester Follow

i tried to take the bar exam but they didnt let me because i wasnt cunty and traumatized enough

57,384 notes

😇 innosense Follow

683,876 notes

🦀 mad_libz_87 Follow

when will global studios realize that i do not WANT another shitty steel samurai spinoff i just want the original show back

7,094 notes

⚖️ courtofpublicopinions Follow

she present on my evidence til i reach a verdict

⚖️ courtofpublicopinions Follow

WRONG BLOLG. DON'T REBLOG THIS. DELETE POST DELETE POST DELETE POST I SWEAR WE'RE PROFESSIONALS HERE

17,283 notes

👑 courtroyals Follow

"we need more great prosecutors" you guys couldn't even handle manfred von karma

🧊 just--ice Follow

didn't he kill someone?

👑 courtroyals Follow

irrelevant. you guys couldn't handle him.

587 notes

📋 lawandwhoreder Follow

law: i'm so law

lawyer, who needs to one up everyone no matter what: i'm more law than you

🏛️ lawyest Follow

hi

📋 lawandwhoreder Follow

you've got to be fucking kidding me

183,834 notes

🧊 just--ice Follow

why is it always murders with lawblr. why don't we ever talk about divorce or something

[jolieeason]

It's Monday: What Are You Reading---December 9th, 2024

It’s Monday! What Are You Reading? a place to meet and share what you have been and are about to be reading over the week. It’s a great post to organize yourself. It’s an opportunity to visit, comment, and add to your groaning TBR pile! So welcome in everyone. This meme started on J Kaye’s blog and then was hosted by Sheila from Book Journey. Sheila then passed it on to Kathryn at The Book…

[supercrazyangel4]

The thing I've always loved most about aa4 is how much darker the tone is than the rest of the series in a way that isn't just edgy for the sake of it, but subverts your expectations from the original 3 games in a really interesting way. The trilogy was built upon the trust Phoenix had in others, and it was something we as players could almost always feel certain in. AA4 flips this on its head and makes it so Apollo effectively can't trust anyone but himself.

Your mentor, who the in the trilogy was a paragon of wisdom you could always turn to no matter what, gets revealed to be the culprit and sent to jail in the first trial and by the end of the game his list of crimes has stacked high but you still have so few answers on why he did any of it.

Your boss, the goofy protagonist of the trilogy, is now inexplicably a washed-up, disgraced, cheating poker player with an implied drinking problem who seemingly found a new hobby in evidence forgery and jury rigging.

He has a codependent relationship with his daughter, your assistant, who usually is a completely innocent and hapless victim of circumstance. She sees herself as the provider for the house and will help her father cheat at poker, or forge evidence, or guilt trip the poor attorney they knowingly screwed of out of a job into working for them for dirt cheap.

The detective, the only other returning main character, a previous assistant, is completely changed since we last saw her. In the trilogy she was chipper and bright despite the hardships she faced, and now she's unfriendly and burned out, turned bitter by the world. The scene we're first properly introduced to her in Apollo genuinely spends several minutes thinking his boss is making him bribe her with cocaine.

Every single defendant is a criminal guilty of something other than what they're charged for. Each case centers around an underground black-market poker ring, a mafia family and medical malpractice, a smuggling ring, and a family of forgers and an incredibly shady troupe of magicians. The one thing all of these people have in common is that none of them will tell you literally anything about what's happening, half of them clearly reveling in being as big of cryptic assholes as possible.

The only person who doesn't fit this description is, for once, the prosecutor. Usually your biggest obstacle and the most morally corrupt of the main cast, he's the only person who's both 100% on the side of truth and on the same page as you for the entire game. He's just as clueless as you, being used nothing more than a chess piece just like you are.

But the truly masterful thing about AA4 is how morally grey it is. These characters aren't just one note villains. They're not even villains at all. Most of them aren't even malicious.

Your boss, for all the low levels he stoops to, is underneath it all the same guy he's always been, doing everything he can to bring a criminal to justice and protect his family. Your assistant is a sweet girl who truly cares about you, she's just prioritizing herself and her fathers safety before anything else. The detective is the same passionate and kind woman under everything else. The rest of the defendants are genuinely well-meaning young people who got involved in shady stuff they didn't fully understand.

The game is filled with good people trying to make the best of bad circumstances. The game has just as many fun moments as the original trilogy. For all it's rough appearance, the game has a similar heart. For every unanswered question or unrighted wrong, there's a smile or a hope for a better future. For every bad action, there's usually someone trying their best behind it. The game is melancholic and dark, but isn't afraid to let good shine through. It knows there's no shadows without the light.

[inbarfink]

I love how one bright Japanifornian morning, 20 year old Phoenix Wright saw a news story that was like “Miles Edgeworth, the infamous Demon Prosecutor under accusation of forgery, bribery, general corruption and Being an Absolute Asshat once again! This monster would do anything to achieve his guilty verdict!” and he went “hmmm, I bet I can fix him” and then HE DID.

[crplpunkklavier]

an aspect of aa4 that i really dont see talked about a lot is that kristoph had that forgery commissioned before phoenix was ever in the picture. he didnt have that page forged to disbar someone, he originally had it forged so he could use it in court and win the case. it wouldnt have worked, because zak had planned to disappear mid trial from the start, sure. but kristoph didnt know that. this implies that either kristoph thought klavier would just let him get away with forged evidence, or, more likely, that klavier just wouldnt pick up on it at all. and we talk about klaviers guilt a lot and all, but..... in between this and daryan thinking he could smuggle contraband into the country using klavier's guitar, how would it feel to know that everyone you loved thought youre stupid? that they werent just murderers, they were murderers who were banking on you either not noticing them or looking the other way? and how bittersweet must it feel to have proven them wrong. ive said it a lot: i think klavier is one of the smartest characters in all of ace attorney, and yet those closest to him didnt seem to know that about him at all.

[dewdrop0781]

Edgeworth and Kristoph Parallels (1/2)

Can we talk about the parallels between Kristoph and Edgeworth? Because, if you think about it, Kristoph Gavin is really the perfect mirror to Miles Edgeworth. It’s actually a shame that they never meet in the games!

How they met Pheonix :

Edgeworth

Phoenix was accused of a crime he did not commit (stealing someone’s lunch money). During the class trial, no one took his side except for one person—Edgeworth. This was especially peculiar because Edgeworth was the actual VICTIM of the crime! Edgeworth defended Pheonix out of a pure sense of justice. Despite being the victim, he defended the accused simply because it was the right thing to do. That moment left such a lasting impression on Pheonix that, not only did they became friends, but Pheonix even became a lawyer to save Edgeworth in the future.

Kristoph 

Phoenix is accused of a crime he did not commit (forgery). During the bar association hearing, no one took his side except for one person—Kristoph. (Sound familiar?) In hindsight this was especially peculiar since Kristoph was the actual CULPRIT of the crime! Kristoph did not take Pheonix’s side because he knew he was innocent. He had the ulterior motive of winning Pheonix’s trust so he could monitor him. Of course, Phoenix did not know this in the beginning, which is why they became friends after the bar association hearing. (Still sound familiar?) It makes you wonder how Pheonix saw Kristoph during the 7 year gap…

Reputation/character development:

Edgeworth

When we first meet Edgeworth, he was introduced as our rival/enemy. He fought on the opposing side on a very significant trial (our mentor’s murder). He also had a bad reputation. He was literally dubbed “the demon prosecutor.” While he did use forged evidence, AA1-4 confirms that it was forged without him knowing. Now he still used sneaky tricks (updated autopsy report), but he actually wasn’t that attached to winning by the time he reunites with Pheonix. He starts helping Pheonix in literally the 2nd trial we play against him. We learn that he is actually a good person underneath, despite his reputation. The more we play AA1, the more we warm up to him, and we even prove his innocence in the last trial of the game.

Kristoph

When we first meet Kristoph, he is introduced as Apollo’s mentor. Since the mentor is an ally role, we are meant to trust him right away. He also had a very positive reputation. He was called “the coolest defense in the west.” Yet, like many lawyers in the AA courts during that time, he was just another rotten lawyer. He was very comfortable forging evidence for the Gramarye trial and I wouldn’t be surprised if he forged for other trials too. Kristoph cared about perfection more than anything, he was even willing to kill for it. The more we play AA4, the more we learn about Kristoph, and the more evil he is revealed to be.

Other:

I like the idea of Kristoph being the twisted version of “the Edgeworth who never left.” For instance, I find it interesting that Kristoph is a defense attorney which is what Edgeworth wanted to be growing up.  But there is also a lot to say about Edgeworth never being around in general.

In the games, unfortunately, Pheonix and Edgeworth never spend much time together. They knew eachother for a little bit as kids, spent a lot of time together in AA1, and a little bit more in the next two games. It’s also implied that they shared some trips together during the 7 year gap but otherwise Edgeworth was always in another country. 

But in AA4 it’s confirmed that Pheonix and Kristoph have been around each other for at least 7 years. It is arguably more time than Pheonix spent with Edgeworth if you think about it. Yet despite that, Edgeworth is someone Pheonix can trust wholeheartedly while Kristoph was someone Pheonix always had to keep his guard around. Poor Pheonix.

Anyway, it would be cool if these two characters were to interact. Wouldn’t be cool if we had an AA game where we finally play Egeworth as a prosecutor with Kristoph as the defense? Kristoph would have been the perfect opponent…

[askaceattorney]

Dear Anonymous,

And, clearly you lack judgment. That camera on his beanie was given to him and set up by Ema Skye. She’s had that camera since before Mr. Wright was disbarred as shown by these pieces of evidence.

I don’t know about this time-traveling bit, but that camera recorded seven years of Mr. Wright’s life and is still going because he doesn’t know how to delete any footage. That’s why it’s been kept for seven years. Ms. Skye was the one that set up the recording so that the viewer could watch each parts of that investigation from seven years ago to the present like watching those DVD’s and bluerays you always watch.

If you don’t believe me, you can ask her and she will go into all the details of how the video recording worked for the Jury and how she was able to set it up the way she did. I’m sure it would make sense of this time-traveling theory you’re bringing up. Personally, I don’t know what you’re meaning by time-travel. I doubt Mr. Wright knows either.

- The Judge

[jinxedshapeshifter]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT APOLLO'S TREATMENT OF ATHENA IN TURNABOUT FOR TOMORROW IS BECAUSE OF KRISTOPH.

Like. Hear me out.

Apollo's already had one person he worked with turn out to be a murderer without him even suspecting anything as of Turnabout for Tomorrow. Apollo didn't suspect a thing about Kristoph until after Phoenix accused him of murdering Shadi Smith/Zak Gramarye. THEN half a year later he found out Kristoph was actually behind evidence forgery, two murders, and an attempted murder. All without Apollo's knowledge.

If there's even a hint of suspicion that one of his CURRENT coworkers is a murderer, let alone his best friend's murderer? I can't blame him for how he responded to Athena being accused of Clay's murder given he'd already had his ex-boss get accused of murder. It adds depth to Apollo literally begging Phoenix to prove Athena innocent too; Phoenix is the one who proved Kristoph to be guilty of murder twice, not necessarily Apollo. Apollo was just the one who made Phoenix's findings public knowledge, since Phoenix couldn't at the time.

Like I think looking at Apollo’s response to Athena being accused of Clay's murder is a fantastic example of how Apollo’s trauma from Kristoph (because you cannot convince me it doesn't exist) affects his relationships with his coworkers (possibly even just people he's close to). He mentions multiple times (I think multiple times anyway) that he doesn't WANT to believe Athena's guilty of Clay's murder, and begs Phoenix to prove her innocence because he's so genuinely upset by the idea that she might be guilty, both because if she is, that would make her the second person he's worked with who's guilty of murder, and because he wants to believe she's innocent but the evidence says she's guilty.

I don't know if the phantom knew about the whole Kristoph thing and Apollo being Kristoph's protégé before he was Phoenix's, but the phantom seems like the kind of person to use someone's trauma against them, so it wouldn't surprise me if the phantom somehow knew about Kristoph's relationship to Apollo and used that against him (since it is the phantom who forged decisive evidence against Athena).