#Fionna & Cake analysis

[snowflake-owl]

I just realized this is how Simon sleeps when he's guarded up... he's taking care of Fionna and Cake. He's kept the habit since the days he was raising little Marceline in the post-apocalypse, excuse me while I cry.

[xanderindisguis]

THE EXPRWSSIONS HE HAS WHEN TALKING TO SCARAB HAS ME CRAZY the way they say so much with so little.

THIS IS YOUR SCARAB HATER??? From just a few frames he comes off as concerned in a caring way, how did we get to a point he's portrayed as an evil, abusive, narcissistic boss??

It's so clear that Orbo doesn't hate Scarab, I firmly believe he gets fed up because Scarab refuses to look outside of his own point of view and any attempt to bigger the picture with him falls on deaf ears, that he's more likely to listen under threats rather than just words he obviously doesn't care for.

(I DON'T AGREE with threatening or actually tearing his legs off, but it's to consider ORBO'S POTENTIAL POV. I feel that's more likely than him just being a huge asshole who hates him for some bs reason)

[koimethehorizon]

Adventure Time and Fionna and Cake Theory: The Victimhood of Simon + How the Series Might End

Prerequisite Watching for this Theory:

Adventure Time: Temple of Mars, Betty, Come Along With Me, Broke His Crown, I Remember You, Holly Jolly Secrets Part II

Gonna start this loaded theory with a bit of a hot take. I’ve never liked how Simon and Betty’s stories concluded in Come Along With Me.

For Simon, I’ve always had trouble considering Simon and the Ice King as the same person. Holly Jolly Secrets and I Remember You, the pinnacle of depicting the dichotomy of the two characters is built on us seeing Simon as suffering irreversible memory loss and how his loved ones can grow to accept that. The context is most apt when viewed as a metaphor for dementia, Alzheimer’s, or simply old age.

The scenes in which Ice King reacts so superfluously to characters desperately wishing for his old self to return are striking because of the cruel finality of his condition. Alternatively, the ones in which his loved ones hang around with him despite his condition are sweet in their own right.

One of my favorite Ice King scenes is in Broke His Crown where Marceline invites her girlfriend to meet her surrogate father.

Bubblegum: What's this?

Ice King: It's a present, to bribe you for coming over!

Marceline: You don't have to bribe us silly, we're here because we WANT to hang out with you.

Ice King: No one has ever said that to me before.

*snatches present*

Ice King: You didn't say no takebacks.

There was a real poignancy to depicting an old man with memory-loss slowly having people come to accept him and realize that he’s still a swell guy to hang around. It may be depressing to see this good person who was once so unconditionally caring into a buffoon who could forget your name so easily and turn on you in the flip of a coin.

But even he deserved love from others. And in time, as a result of that love, he did improve.

Which is why, even in Fionna and Cake, I find myself still disturbed seeing Simon in his normal state and Ice King completely erased from Ooo. It kills me that Betty and in extension, the show itself could not accept Ice King as he was and felt that his best course was to undo it all.

All of his experiences for 1000+ years all of a sudden no longer matter, and the acceptance of his peers no longer mattered as well. He's just back to who he used to be in a world where everything he's known is gone.

Happily ever after

Even worse, however, is remembering the wish that allowed Simon to be cured. The person who sacrificed her individuality to get that good person back, because she couldn’t accept reality as it was.

And I’m going to put a second hot take. A spicy one. Simon needs to take the fault in Betty's fate and Fionna and Cake (the show not the characters) seems aware of this.

Throughout Adventure Time, Simon Petrikov was never developed as a character. As far as the audience and the characters within Adventure Time knew, the only traits about Simon that mattered were: that he was intelligent, he was a kind man, and he loved Betty.

This wouldn’t really be a compelling character on its own, but when juxtaposed with the Ice King it’s a tragedy that he lost these traits. The compelling part of Simon was his victimhood to the ice crown and not really him as a person.

It’s why Obsidian’s version of Simon feels somewhat empty, he’s back to his intelligent, kind self but there’s no real hints to how he’s mentally adjusting other than that brief glimpse in Ice King’s robes again.

And he looks really weird in this special too. Color me surprised when Simon Petrikov reads out the problems I've had for years about his ending while also making Simon into his own person. In many ways it just completely redos what we see of him in Obsidian.

He's still a kind man but even he can't handle being so maladjusted to a world so beyond his time. He's still intelligent but his passions aren't reciprocated, and that seems to have always been the case even in the past. Rather than a guy who doesn't take shit from guys like Marceline's ex or a first responder to his daughter's problems, he's a normal guy unable to handle the threats of Ooo's world even after 12 years of living in it. Rather than singing to large communities in bliss, he's a lonely alcoholic who can't even relate to his fellow humans anymore. He loves his adopted daughter but there are even some days he can't muster the courage to be honest with her. And most importantly, he doesn't seem to know how to live beyond his curse or his loneliness.

His mutual obsession with Betty is the only character trait of his that's ever had some distinct flaw and with this new show, the writers must have finally found a way to tackle the subject further. Betty is ultimately a greater victim than Simon. She ends up in a far worse fate than Simon has ever been in. Perhaps more disturbingly, she willingly chose to strip herself of her individuality.

Fionna and Cake brings a contradiction to light about Simon and Betty’s seemingly perfect relationship. Simon and Betty's love is real and they do make each other happy. But there does exist a co-dependency that has worsened throughout the series as a result of their insecurity of letting a bad memory conclude their relationship. Betty's patterns are pretty clear throughout her tenure as Magic Woman but not too much with Simon. Not until now.

In Jerry, Simon stops Betty from pursuing her dreams because he didn’t want her goodbye to be his last memory with her.

In Betty, Simon rewrites history and inadvertently summons her to Ooo because he didn’t want Betty’s look of contempt to be his last memory of her.

And through all of Fionna and Cake, Simon has turned into a suicidal man willing to resummon GOLBetty regardless of the reasons she can’t see him again. All because he didn’t want her sacrifice to be his last memory of her. Despite the fact that Betty’s final wish was to keep Simon safe.

There's also this uneven power dynamic between the two. Simon was far more accomplished as a professor with PhDs even if no one took him seriously. Betty was just a student offering some help, knowing she wouldn't take any credit for helping.

I’ll preface that Betty is a consenting adult in the relationship and made many self-determined rash choices that Simon would never approve of with full context. We’ve enough scenes to show that Simon actively refuses Betty’s help if it means endangering her.

However, Simon’s perception of Betty and his own inadequacy did influence her personality for the worse. Fionna questions Simon on two occasions about how strange it was for “someone she just met to drop everything to go with you”. Even within the flashbacks Betty verbally describes her internal conflict between her individuality vs. her infatuation with Simon and the guy never picks up on it.

Whether he’s aware of it or not, Simon always ends up becoming the center of attention during Betty’s greatest life-changing events because he’s always suffering in some way. And sadly in-character, Betty always prioritizes him first because of how sorry she feels for him.

Simon: Just hold my hand to your face, this will be my… last sensation.

Betty: Don’t be a wimp, Simon!

I don’t want to be too hard on Simon, his suffering is cosmologically depressing. An undeniable tragedy that no one deserves to be alone on. It would be unfair to say he’s being dramatic about something most if not any human would ever go through. He’s not a leech for desiring help, especially from his significant other.

But I do think it’s important to point out that he does have a major flaw in not reflecting on the consequences of Betty’s choices.

Fionna: Damn, that’s romantic. So, you got on the bus with her?

Simon: Yup. Uh what? No. No. Why would I-

This is the reason this post exists. This is the show explicitly telling us that Simon has never really thought about what Betty lost because he thinks his love was greater than the passion Betty once had.

Let's go back to Betty once again for what is honestly the most justifiable takedown you could make of Simon's character prior to the miniseries.

As stated earlier, Simon opens a portal to ask for Betty's forgiveness with a few seconds on the clock. And in that time, he essentially just unloads a giant drama bomb, trauma dump of his suffering leading Betty to ask what she can even do without him. And if the plan went as it was, Simon would've just left her a hundred questions that she'd never have answered for the rest of her life.

Simon: Just know that I love you and I forgive you for leaving me. Author's Note: I dunno, isn't there something a bit off about how he worded this?

Now Simon didn't ask for Betty to jump into the portal, but he certainly was asking for it subconsciously. How else would he have expected a person who loves him dearly to act after this?

Taking any measures necessary and finding a way back together obviously. That's what he's doing too!

And reiterating again, this is the reason why Betty goes on her ego-suicidal quest. This is Simon's greatest mistake, his greatest moral failing as a person and he doesn't seem aware of this.

He’s not wrong that Betty lived happily with him. In spite of losing her dreams, Betty and Simon did love each other unconditionally. But he’s missing the bigger picture about how he could’ve been self-centered in deciding Betty’s fate for himself.

And maybe to stretch somewhat, I think even the quest to become Ice King again is somewhat motivated by his inability to live as anything more than a victim. Some of it is because the citizens of Ooo were being a bit inconsiderate about how much they liked Ice King yes, but Simon should be perfectly aware that Marceline, Betty, and now Fionna would be extremely concerned about him for doing this. Yet, he doesn’t really consider their feelings too much on the matter. He’s too used to the suffering.

Please have one scene with Marceline, I'd be sad if we don't get to see at least one.

This leads me to how I believe Fionna and Cake may rewrite Simon’s ending.

The key is in the episode Temple of Mars.

Upon rewatching the episode, I’m convinced that the Adventure Time cast had a greater plan with the Betty and Simon arc that just never came to be due to production constraints. A lot of Betty’s history and the deconstruction of her relationship with Simon in Jerry are surprisingly details that have already been told.

I thought it was an animation error that Betty’s glasses were different in Jerry but it turns out the continuity director is just that good.

The trip in six months, Simon stopping her, and the realization that Simon superseded her identity. Seeking independence from Simon is the lesson that Normal Man was trying failed to teach her.

Betty: I’ve spent so much time dedicated on Simon that I’m not even sure if there’s any “me” left anymore.

But the most telling detail is how Betty passes Normal Man’s test.

Finn: Even if you are a lost cause, she is not!

Betty: No, Finn’s right. You’ll thank me for this later past Betty.

In an alternate pocket reality, she changes her trip to the day before, preventing Simon from stopping her. And I think Simon will have to change fate once again to do the same.

If Simon comes to realize that he was the one who set Betty to her terrible fate, that all this time his rose-colored lens of their relationship had been detrimental then he could give her identity back. But it can’t be as simple as changing the moment Betty turns into GOLB or Magic Woman or even bringing her through the portal in Betty.

He needs to let Betty go on the bus. Alone.

It’s the only way for Betty to have her life back. If not for his Betty, maybe at least to save one in the multiverse doomed to the same fate.

They both need to cherish their time on the Enchiridion trip back when it wasn’t too late for Betty to go on the trip. Back when they were both equals and not tied to Simon’s needs.

Jerry is absolutely setting up something big with Simon and Betty’s relationship for next week and now that we’re going to the GOLB dimension, we’ll see how he remembers these moments again.

Personally, as someone who has been skeptical about Simon's peace for years, Fionna and Cake's second episode was like a sigh of relief. Simon hasn't found his ending yet, and my hope is that this epilogue will help me see the man happy without having to relive Betty's sacrifice for the rest of his life. Just like the rest of Adventure Time, it'll have to end with him cherishing the time he had with Betty regardless of the inevitability of losing that relationship.

PS. Isn’t quite strange that at one point in time, Simon sought after magic objects that ostracized him from the normal world and now, he lives in a house full of 1980s-1990s objects that ostracized him from the magical world? Maybe he was never really satisfied with where he was in the present.

PSS. I really wanted to write something on Fionna for the Ep 3-6 releases, and I still have the idea, but I couldn’t make it coherent due to how much my brain overthinks everything to the point of cognitive collapse. If there’s enough interest, I’ll go back to write it again.

[itsanotheridiot]

Spoilers for Fionna and cake

I wanna talk about Finn real quick

Bro seeing Finn as a adult is such a joy but also really sad because we got a lot more context to play on post-Jake’s death. In together again Finn mentions how Jake dying was the worst thing to happen to him and he was just waiting to pass so he can see jake again.

And goddamn seeing Finn still grieving over Jake hurts and it’s so subtle too. Finn zoning out after mentioning Jake, Finn being extremely reckless and a bit more violent because Jake is voice of reason isn’t here, Finn has TV with him as his partner in crime and in Obsidian we saw Bronwyn as Finn’s partner in crime so it’s very likely he is probably using Jake’s family to try and replace him to cope, and Finn avoiding feelings and being sad and just pushing his emotions away and trying to be happy.

It’s so subtle which makes the writing so good but goddamn Finn grief really hitting my soul

[emiiexe]

i love the contrast between the backgrounds behind magic betty and past betty, past bettys room shows so much personality and life while magic betty stands in front of an empty void - reflective of how much of her identity had become lost after becoming magic and because of her obsession with simon. The comparison between the two backgrounds show so much about what state she is in and it just makes the "i spent so much of my life dedicated to simon, i'm not sure if there's even any 'me' left anymore" line even sadder

[frecklenog]

there’s something about how most new worlds were born of wishes (“i wish the lich never existed” resulting in farmworld and things like “i wish simon never put on the crown” or “i wish finn and jake would never get old and die” being possible wishes for babyworld and vampworld respectively) and simon and betty playing out a little what-if of what it might’ve been like to go to australia together and the futility of it. will happen. could happen. did happen. didn’t.

there’s something about fionna and cake’s world in turn being born of a wish just to be. to live and to see life through. something about the vast and insignificant miracle that is the human experience. (“you’re going to be something extraordinary — you’re going to be a human being.” “you are an experience. make sure it’s a good experience.” “you were a wonderful experience.” “i think i was born to hang out. and love a lot.”)

there’s something about shermy and beth technically still coming down the pike from miles away. (will happen.) about all these stories that started so long ago still being told, still being happy in the end, still being worth telling even if you already know how all the songs go. (happening.) about how at the end of the day the past is immutable. you can never cross the same river twice and you never go home. you’ll never grow past this pain if you don’t let go. (happened. “it seems unforgiving when a good thing ends,”) about how simon thought golbetty was going to swallow him and free him of his anguish over her but instead she sent him tumbling back into his own world, into a life rich with love and laughter that makes his agonies worth it. (will happen. “you and i will always be best friends.”)

[sysig]

Some highlights from a tense but still very Winterkov-y scene (Patreon)

[mynamesnotdahlia]

The first place that we see Simon go after closing his exhibit down is a bar. He specifically had a hard day and went to a bar, just like you'd expect of a sitcom character, simple cause and effect.

He opens his morning watching a show that he takes comfort in, set within his time in the friendly environment of a bar where there's a consistent cast of characters, getting into trouble and sharing their problems with each other

Somewhere to feel better. Somewhere where everybody knows his name.

[cyan-6-ide]

simon saying he wants to be become ice king again is so in character it’s agonising. he wore the crown again and again to begin with so he could save a girl, even if it meant the horror of losing himself and driving away every last person he cared about. he spent over a thousand years in that state, practically lost and replaced. almost nobody knew who he used to be, not even him. the new world wasn’t jarring, because this was how it had always been for ice king, for a thousand years, for the forever that he could process. he had his place in the system and he wasn’t *happy*, but he slid into the chaos of ooo as his state of mind deteriorated.

then he’s cognisant again. but the love of his life is dead. and it truly sinks in that even though he is back, the ice king would never give back the time he took from him. the world he knew slipped away while he forgot it, and he’s left as an outsider who can’t even find solace in his own species, one that moved on without him. he has to sit with everything ice king did. everything that took from him. every way that hurt others. every moment of sickening confusion and loss and pain. and those who could never feel the gravity tell him again and again that he was so much cooler and fun back then! that he’s just some lame old guy now, such a downer! always on about some girl, or staring off sadly! who would want to mope with him at a bar rather than party with the ice king, right?

marcaline doesn’t even rely on him anymore. grown and independent now. grown when he wasn’t there to see it. it’s not like anybody else needs him either, and what does he have to give now, anyway? he tries and tries to bring his girlfriend back and every time he’s smacked in the face. he’s so tired. he’s so, so tired. he wouldn’t half mind being the ice king again, because even with the pain of that, at least he wouldn’t be capable of thinking about these things anymore. he would have powers that could help people again. he would be fun and charismatic and free from being cognisant. even better than dying, he could make people happy this way too. two birds with one stone, in his eyes. at least the ice king has a reason to be alive.

it becomes a third bird when fionna *needs* this. it’s not the only plausible solution, but it’s a damn clean one. her problems will be fixed, fixed with the crown the way that simon used to fix every problem all those years ago. the most reliable shortcut. he’ll be free from life, and the world will get their *beloved* ice king back. the events of 1000 years ago can repeat, but this time he’ll never seek a cure.

of course this is a flawed view, and i can’t remotely see this being the endgame for his arc, and it could *never* be portrayed as the right course of action. falling into that old pattern and life would be a monumental act of self harm in an attempt to escape himself, and it would leave marcaline in pieces to see him relapse and lose himself all over again in that last ditch effort. it’s genuinely a simultaneous act of relapse and suicide, and though it’s so clear why he’s reached this point, i do NOT believe this series will end with him re-becoming the ice king. and if it does, it will be a horrifying event, not a happy culmination of his character arc.

[nrmtenjoyer]

That portal looks like a halo or aureola... And he's directly tied with a force of nature who's treated and represented as the devil...

Makes me wonder if there's any correlation between these two, (maybe just GOLBetty tho) and Prismo's boss.

[trojanteapot]

The Star, upright and reversed.

[inbarfink]

So, the thing about trying to, like, analyze whatever Adventure Time the Show sees Ice King and Simon Petrikov as the same person or not… I mean, the first complication is that ‘Adventure Time’ has always been a very collaborative work composed of a variety of viewpoints. So while you can discuss this or that episode or even series of episodes or something more thematically consistent like a miniseries or a specific arc in terms of ‘what is it saying/thinking’… there is also most likely an ‘Adventure Time’ episode somewhere that is basically saying the opposite.

And especially with Ice King and Simon… this subject is not just emotionally charged and complicated for us the audience to understand- but it’s even more emotionally charged and complicated for the characters in-universe. 

I think that what the characters say or imply about Simon Petrikov and Ice King is less an indication of what the Show and/or the Writers think, of what is Canonically True about Simon and IK - and more an indication of the individual characters' feelings on the subject. 

Like, Finn calling Ice King ‘Simon’ was less the show saying explicitly that they are the same person - and more Finn indicating that he wants to believe that they are the same person. That he wants to believe that Simon Petrikov, the desperate man he saw on the tapes, one of the first humans he ever saw, is still alive and can be helped by him.

 

And on the other hand, Simon Petrikov now saying that he’s not Ice King… is probably less about the Philosophical Conundrum of His Own Identity and more about him just trying to move on and distance himself from the most horrible traumatic experience of his existence. It's better for his mental health right now to separate himself from the Ice King.

And then there’s Marceline, who also tends to refer to IK as Simon and even asks others to do the same.

But also, every time she meets with Simon when he’s lucid - she talks about it as if he was gone. 

My reading is that she tried her best to see the Simon in the Ice King the same way that Finn did, and did her best to believe Simon is not really gone forever. But… in reality, she never quite managed to convince herself of that idea. She wanted to believe Simon still lived through Ice King, but she never quite managed to, and the cracks showed up whenever she got to see the 'real' Simon.

I also wonder if Finn right now treating Simon as the same person as Ice King

Like, maybe on some level it's just the force of habit. He was used of thinking of Ice King and Simon as the same person during IK's time, and he doesn't quite have the emotional intelligence to realize why it might've been a kindness to IK but Really Not What Simon Needs Right Now. But also.... maybe powered by the same mindset that made Finn see them as the same person in the first place. First, he wanted to believe Simon Petrikov wasn't dead, and nowadays, he doesn’t want to think that the Ice King is truly gone forever either.

[eyesteeth]

my thoughts and theories on fionna and cake

so from the trailer alone i’m pretty sure this is going to be very Simon-centric. as established in the main series, Fionna and Cake is genderbend fanfiction written by Ice King. however, it seems likely that the Fionna and Cake focused on in this series will not be the one within Simon’s mind - not fully, anyway.

i initially believed that the Fionna and Cake we see in this series would be entirely figments of Simon's imagination - fanfiction used as a coping mechanism. Fionna's world is realistic and bland and mundane because Simon's "lost the magic in his life", and Fionna's world gaining magic would be a sign of changes in his mental state.

i no longer believe this because i took too many screenshots of the trailer. however, i do think that the Fionna and Cake of Simon's mind will be relevant, and Fionna's world mirroring Simon's is an intentional comparison.

my take is this - Fionna and Cake is going to have an overarching a-plot of Fionna figuring out what's gone wrong with her world and defeating the threat, and a b-plot of Simon facing his mortality and his trauma and coming to terms with both.

that's my tl;dr. long post below.

Simon’s a character with a lot of depth to him, but none of the Distant Lands specials focused on him, so it’s his turn to hold the Trauma Ball. we know that he isn’t immortal anymore with the crown gone. he’s visibly aged in the trailer, growing some white hair, and is wrinklier.

(Tom Kenny also said in an interview that this is the most emotional thing he’s worked on, and Tom Kenny’s been in fucking everything, so you know it’s gonna be big. i cannot for the life of me find the source for this so you're gonna have to trust me on this one.)

aging is clearly gonna fuck Simon up for multiple reasons - beyond the normal stuff, aging means he's going to look like Ice King, making himself a visual reminder of the worst time of his life. he also spent a very long time as an immortal, and adjusting to the idea of death after centuries of being the same age is probably gonna fuck with him.

he’ll also be dwelling on his past - there’s shots in the trailer of him and Marcy together right after the Mushroom War, likely filling in some gaps from that time. we already got a whole episode dedicated to their time together in the main series, so there's no need to tread that ground again - this will likely show new moments with them or recontextualize things with the state Simon's in now.

(there's also a shot of both of their feet but i couldn't fit both sets of shoes on one frame)

then there’s a shot of what’s very obviously a musical number from the in-between state of Simon and Ice King. this could be the first time he puts on the crown (or an early time), resulting a darkly upbeat moment of juxtaposition, or it could be an equally dark current-day moment along the lines of “wasn’t it so nice when you had the crown on and you didn’t have to think about anything? when you were immortal and too out of it to realize how bad of a spot you were in?”

or it could be a secret third thing. keep this image in mind, it'll be relevant later.

as for some miscellaneous screenshots, takes these two:

Simon's coat is missing in the first but he still has it in the second, so either he goes on two separate adventures in Ooo, or the first image takes place after the second. i stand by this being Ooo in the first image because of the trees in the background. as for the second image, that's Finn in the top right, and the treehouse on the left. because of how old Finn looks in the big promo image, i assume this takes place between Obsidian and Together Forever - Jake is dead but Finn is not. Finn and Simon might have a talk about death and dying if the mortality thing gets brought up, or Finn might just be here to help Simon get where he needs to go.

to where they are going, one can only speculate. it might be Prismo's cube, but i'm a little iffy on that. the cube is massively relevant by the way and is likely how Fionna and Cake end up crossing paths with Simon.

because Prismo's whole deal is alternate universes (gestures at Farmworld Finn) i believe that this is how Fionna and Cake come to Ooo. Prismo's cube is even in the logo for this show, it's that important.

(Simon is no stranger to Prismo, we got the above moment in the Adventure Time finale, so him traveling to Prismo with Finn's help is a possibility.)

anyway, time for the people the show is actually named about!

for their side of the plotline, the description of the trailer is quite enlightening:

"Based on characters from the beloved “Adventure Time” franchise, this brand-new 10-episode series set in the land of Ooo follows the alternate universe versions of Finn & Jake on a multiverse-hopping journey towards self-discovery. When Fionna and her sidekick Cake find themselves in the crosshairs of a powerful new foe, they have no choice but to seek the help of former Ice King Simon Petrikov." (emphasis mine)

notably, they are referred to explicitly as alternate universe versions, so they are indeed their own people. i also find it curious that Fionna's life is somehow mundane enough to lack magic, yet wacky enough to have a "powerful new foe". unless that something is actively sucking the magic out of their universe, this particular foe is a mystery to me.

however, because multiverse hopping is mentioned, i believe that the big foe is gonna have ~some weirdness~ about it, possibly attacking universe after universe for its intended goal ala [insert your preferred bagel-based multiverse movie here]. i'd also like to present the following screencaps to the court:

the use of line color, color choice, and shading in between the two on the left and the two on the right are like night and day. so, given the multiverse theme, i propose that these are two different Fionnas - the Fionna and Cake as presented by Simon on the left, and the real magicless Fionna from her universe on the right. alternatively, the one on the left could be Fionna after she comes to Ooo, and she just gets a costume change.

(also, the musical number shot has coloring similar to the set on the right, potentially indicating that scene takes place in the same location/episode/universe/etc as those shots. this is the third secret thing.)

(also also, this is probably way too off the wall to be true, but the ones on the right look incredibly similar to Bee and Puppycat in terms of color, and given that Natasha Allegri is responsible for both Bee and Puppycat and the creation of Fionna, this series could get into ideas of creation, using Simon's Fionna vs the real Fionna as an allegory somehow. i will be shocked if this happens, i think it's just visual flair tbh, i just wanted to get this thought out of my brain)

if this wasn't a spotty post before here's where it gets Real Spotty:

i believe this is Fionna in Ooo, she's in a bunny hat and she's with a kid in Finn's clothes. i believe this is Ooo because of the fire people at the bottom. Fionna is also still wearing the outfit she had on in the bus in the beginning of the trailer, leading me to believe that she gets to Ooo after that set of scenes.

i further believe this is Ooo, because we see the same kid in this shot. that's Simon's leg on the right, muddied up, so this could be after his adventure with Finn. on the left is the Fionna and Cake script in the bin, this being the Fionna and Cake Simon came up with. my guess is that this kid is a fan of the Fionna and Cake Simon came up with and this outfit is a cosplay. maybe he published his fanfiction. good for him.

as for the city behind the closing door...

... maybe it could be this? i'm not sure if this city is on Ooo, frankly. the trees are different. maybe Fionna, Simon, and this kid all went to an alt universe together by accident? and that's why the kid looks so distraught in the shot with the bin?

for my last image-based comment, simon's sleeve has been torn off here (bottom of his-right-our-left arm) so it's possible that whatever muddied his pants in the bin shot also got his coat messed up, possibly his adventure with Finn.

to recap this meandering post

here's an extremely weak guess of plot points from the previously proposed concepts

Fionna lives a normal, bland life, realizes something is wrong, and ends up in Ooo over the course of a day. within this day, she does her job on the bus, sees something's up with Cake, experiences some dimension weirdness, chases Cake at some point, her and Cake end up falling, and then it's Ooo time.

in Ooo, she meets a kid that's a fan of Fionna and Cake - from the stories Simon wrote and published.

Fionna decides she needs Simon's help, possibly because he's apparently written books about her, so they go to get him

meanwhile, Simon's had a bad mental health day and is spiraling.

he ends up in the woods with Finn for some reason, possibly to death talk, and they have an adventure that takes the length of the day. by the end of it, Simon's clothes are torn up and he just wants to go home.

he goes home and sits down for like A Minute before Fionna and the kid show up at his place.

(there is no evidence for this but i feel like seeing the character you made up in your genderbend fanfic irl would be freaky so Simon's like "wow i've fucking lost it i'm hallucinating my oc")

situation gets explained to a very non-receptive Simon

the three/four of them head off onto a multiversal quest with widely varying levels of enthusiasm

over the course of the quest shenanigans ensue and Simon has many moments of contemplation on his past and future

Fionna gets the situation with her home universe figured out

You Will Cry Your Eyes Out

the end

that's all i got. feel free to go crazy in the notes.

[koimethehorizon]

Fionna and Cake theory: Simon the Artist

Nothing like a good old creative panic attack.

Fionna and Cake good. Haven’t been excited about a show like this in a long time, though it being a part of Adventure Time does help quite a bit. I was holding on to some cautious optimism for the show when it was announced as yet another big IP series covering the multiverse (still waiting to groan at THAT scene where Prismo has to explain to us about there being infinite universes), but as usual, Adventure Time’s crew continues to surprise me with its creativity, humor, and thematic resonance.

The most striking part about Fionna and Cake so far is just how deliberately the show wants us to differentiate it from the original Adventure Time.

We’re getting shots where Simon pops an artery from his arm, a theme song that explicitly talks about suicidal ideation, discussions of rent and financial problems, and curses no longer disguised with AT’s usual dialogue. Adventure Time has always had violence, thematic density, and juvenile rating pushers, but they were always reserved at small points. Meanwhile, these are factors that are just casually shown and discussed in Fionna and Cake every 3 minutes or so. This is not an all-ages miniseries, it’s for young adults. (hint: this will be relevant later)

Let’s get right into it. This is much less a speculative lore theory and more on what thematic direction the story may be going.

Before we do, let’s get this out of the way first. This theory assumes that the current Fionna and Cake world is all a part of Simon’s head and not merely a separate multiverse, which… I’m certain is fact for the following reasons.

The immediately obvious piece is that Fionna and Cake was always the Ice King’s fanfiction. Now if you’re versed in AT’s continuity you’re probably going to be asking about the red light in Fionna and Cake + Fionna and… I’ve no answer for it unfortunately. It’ll probably be relevant later in the series and possibly age this post like milk but for now, we’re not here to focus on the how, but the why.

Second is that the intro and the ending of Ep 2 literally show Fionna’s world spilling right out of Simon’s head like an animated world out of a frozen brain. If that isn’t clear enough-

Didn't realize this until writing, but these glasses are just plastic made to look like Betty's

There’s no other explanation for this other than that this world is artificial or influenced by Simon in some sense. Fionna even specifies that the statue went under renovation 12 years ago, but nobody seems to know who it is. Considering how Finn looks in the episode, it’s likely that it’s been that long since Betty’s sacrifice in the finale.

With that out of the way, here it goes.

The reason Fionna and Cake exist in the first place is because the creators found Natasha Allegri’s genderswap designs charming and wanted an in-universe reason to use them the Ice King wanted to create trashy, wish fulfillment through art. It was a phase.

Definitely changed that image for publishing.

Simon can argue if they’re good or bad but it’s undeniably his art. It’s not just a portfolio he left behind in a closet, it’s an experience that was shared with a larger audience.

And even if wasn’t liked at first, the citizens of Ooo seemed to have come around to it. And some of them love it!

Whether Simon likes it or not, he has a fan base that is so endeared to the story he made all those years ago that they demand he makes more. Why let a good story, loved by many, go to rest when you still have some life and creativity left in you?

Can't move on in more ways than one.

Except, the problem is that Simon isn’t Ice King anymore. He’s aged out of it.

His real passion is history, he's an adult who who finds passion in the mundane and antiques from the past. And frankly, there isn’t much room for wish-fulfillment and fantasy anymore. Simon has responsibilities. He has a job and a daughter in a world that is moving faster than he can process.

And where Ice King wrote about looking for love, Simon has already had it.

And lost it. His mind isn’t focused on the rosiness of finding new love, it’s grieving the one he already thought was the one.

Wasn't he supposed to be good with kids?

Despite his new life experiences, all his peers seem to want from him is to make more of what they’re familiar with.

A story made from wants and wishes that he doesn’t even have anymore.

A story that was literally made by someone else at a different time. It’s a fiction he cannot connect to anymore, art that he’s embarrassed by. Yet also jealous of. Because at one point, the body Simon used to be in understood what exactly was missing from his life and could express that easily.

Seeing it again is like experiencing a retrospection of a cringey loser you don’t want to imagine having ever been. It’s not you anymore, and you don’t want to be reminded of that.

Because despite him having a new creative passion, no one seems to care about that. All they want is Fionna and Cake. And what is more lonely than other people misunderstanding what you’re trying to express?

If I failed to make it clear somehow, my theory is that: Simon’s relationship with Fionna and Cake is a metaphor for creators growing out of their art. And this new Fionna and Cake world is still comfort art born out of Simon’s current desires and perceptions.

The snippet subtitles this “child holding a phone”. I guess I’m wrong. Essay over.

Episode 1 and 2 both have direct parallels with each other. They’re both about a protagonist who are feeling displaced from their world, living a phase of losing a significant other, leaving a thankless job, wearing a mask of stability in front of the people they care for, seeking a guru at the heart of the forest, and concluding that they no longer belong in their current world.

But more importantly, Fionna and Cake (the characters, the world, and the show) are no longer for an all-ages crowd. Fionna and Cake now feature young adults, curses, gore, alcohol, partial nudity, financial issues, morning routines, mid-life crisis, and overt suicidal ideation. These are the feelings that Simon relates to and possibly desires to express through art. Thus, his story and our new miniseries have warped that way.

Am I overthinking this? No. How dare you assume that.

Is equating the unconscious writings of his dementia-ridden self to Simon as his younger self seem a bit odd? ….Kinda. Again, it’s not the how but the why that matters in this case. I'm NOT crazy, I have proof that there is some acknowledgment of this directly in the show.

Rewatch the bar scene and apply this reading of the episode to what Simon says there:

“Your old stuff, Fionna and Cake, honest to glob my man, is an inspiration to me.”

“My old stuff, I don’t really want to talk about my old stuff…”

“Why not? You should be proud! You wrote an entire extended universe in a fugue state if you think about it.”

"Simon cringes"

If you have ever shared art with a group of people in the past, you’ve had this conversation.

Not likely, not possibly, no perhapses. You HAVE.

And Fionna and Cake being an epilogue to a massive award-winning, near-decade-spanning, cultural sensation 5 years after it ended, might result in its creators feeling very retrospective about what audiences want from them now.

And how difficult it’s going to be to tell new experiences and tones from what’s come before. Also, come on. “Extended Universe?” That doesn’t sound like Fionna and Cake. That sounds a lot like something else.

Again, seems bad with this kid.

One of the more profound shots in the main trailer for the show features the inconspicuously Finn-like kid crouching at her Fionna and Cake book in Simon’s trash. I believe this character is going to have a major role in two ways. Convincing Simon to be proud of what he’s accomplished and/or embracing that Simon wants to move away from his original work in order to create something new, or perhaps more likely, reinvent Fionna and Cake into what Simon relates to now.

We’ll just have to see what Simon thinks of his new Fionna next week.

PS. Talking as a fan now, WHAT IS UP WITH THE 1000+ TREEHOUSE IN THE INTRO?!!! ARE WE REVISITING THIS TIMELINE AGAIN?

SOMEONE TELL ME NOW!!!

[sorrinslays]

This might be a bit of a "hot take" (if you can even call it that) but I don't think Winter King was evil. At least not in the way I've seen the fandom sometimes describe him as.

Let me explain, I don't think Winter King is evil in the "I'm gonna give the insanity curse to someone else mwahahahaha!" but in the "I'm so desperate to get my sanity back that I'm ready to sacrifice anything and everything, even the sanity of others".

I think he was desperate to get rid of the curse by any means necessary, to remain in control of himself and his actions. He needed to be himself. He couldn't be Ice King so he tried everything to be himself. I don't think his first thought was giving the curse to someone else, I'm sure he tried to find other, more humane, ways to get rid of it until he couldn't deny that transferring the curse to someone is the only way.

In my opinion, he wasn't an "evil" version of Simon, I think he was a more selfish version of Simon. He put himself above others. He saw his actions as justifiable and after he experienced the relief of getting rid of the curse for even a minute he wanted more, which is why he kept on transferring it to Princess Bubblegum/Candy Queen.

In conclusion, I think that chalking Winter King up to an evil villain takes a lot of his complexity away as a character. I don't think any version of Simon could be evil, if I'm being honest. Plus Winter King didn't give me evil vibes either, at least not "sinister evil" vibes. Was what he did still terrible? Obsoletely. Did he have it coming? Yeah. Was he evil evil though? No, he was desperate.

[spicylove4ever]

Winter King's past with Betty.

This reveals pretty much what was the whole thing between this "Simon" and Betty. Or rather implies.

For a starter, this Simon most likely never got briefly cured by that anti-magic creature, therefore THIS:

... NEVER HAPPENED.

So, if Betty never made it to the future, then she stayed in the past, which means she:

Died. Eventually. In a span of 50 or a few more decades. We can only guess how that happened.

Maybe tried to help him find a solution.

Maybe ran from Simon or got separated from him since he was getting crazy.

Maybe stayed around to help him held his sanity for longer along with investigating a solution.

Maybe perished in the war while Simon survived in part thanks to the Crown.

In any case, that was one hell of a ride with lots of drama and angst.

What is sure is she stayed in the past and eventually died after having more doses of:

That sure made a number on their relationship.

So, since she died in the past and likely was dead by the time Simon met Marceline, who is more present in his life as Winter King (there is no Ice Betty, only the little Marceline) and considering their relation was kind of damaged by then and then Simon had watched her die and then had to move on in order to survive in the post-apocaliptic escenario he was on along with Marceline, his feelings about Betty are definitely different.

Which leads to a big difference with the other Simon.

Winter King Simon had a closure in regards of Betty and moved on, while Cured-from-the-Crown Simon had no closure because he never knew what happened so he made that portal to say his final words and that brought Betty with him.

Now, we can make all kinds of theories of what was like before she died, but, as stated before, that sure was one hell of a ride and most likely Winter King Simon is not confortable thinking of them as a couple. I mean, he does remember her, after all that time, but he's cold about her for whatever happened between them and thanks to that he does not pay tribute to her memory with a Ice Betty.