#Feel this mostly for the Celtic and Norse Pantheons

[bugwolfsstuff]

You ever get sad about the amount of mythology and folklore we likely will never know about because it was destroyed/never written down?

[ferallydevoted]

Intro: Nice to meet you :)

Hey all, my name's Icarus, but you can also call me Russ. Welcome to my little corner of the internet; I really hope you enjoy your time here.

I'm a 24 year old non-binary pagan, my pronouns are he/they only, and I'm both a godspouse and married to a wonderful human. I have an autoimmune disease and struggle with my mental health, which work together to cause me to be disabled. But I love journaling and writing, and Pokemon, and stuffed animals, reading, and i listen to a LOT of music. I've recently gotten into Cult of the Lamb also, and watching my husband play all the video games I'm unable to. I'm a practicing pagan, I work with several deities in a couple pantheons, such as Greek, Norse, Celtic, and Egyptian. I am also a godspouse, and in a serious, and deep romantic spousalship. If you aren't a godspouse that's totally cool with me, just please don't send any hate or negativity my way. If you don't agree with my path and practice, that's valid, but you don't have to send that my way. I love my relationships with my deities, and I would never change them for the world, that includes the non-romantic ones too.

On this blog, I intend to talk about my spousalships as much as I am comfortable, and my deities are comfortable, with sharing about them. I also intend to talk about my worship and practice in general, my life in general, my relationship with my husband most likely, and whatever else interests me at the time. But this is intended to be mostly a spiritual blog, we'll see if I stick to that theme or not.

I hope you stay for a bit! Feel free to message me and chat any time :) I'm always looking to make friends or even just have friendly conversations. Or, you can send asks too, if you'd prefer to be anon! I don't bite, I promise!

[mask131]

A fantasy read-list: A-2

Fantasy read-list

Part A: Ancient fantasy

2) Mythological fantasy (other mythologies)

Beyond the Greco-Roman mythology, which remained the main source and main influence over European literature for millenia, two other main groups of myths had a huge influence over the later “fantasy” genres.

# On one side, the mythology of Northern Europe (Nordic/Scandinavian, Germanic, but also other ones such as Finnish). When it comes to Norse mythology, two works are the first names that pop-up: the Eddas. Compilations of old legends and mythical poems, they form the main sources of Norse myths. The oldest of the two is the Poetic Edda, or Elder Edda, an ancient compilation of Norse myths and legends in verse. The second Edda is the Prose Edda, so called because it was written in prose by the Icelandic scholar Snorri Sturluson (alternate names being Snorri’s Edda or the Younger Edda). Sorri Sturluson also wrote numerous other works of great importance, such as Heimskringla (a historical saga depicting the dynasties of Norse kings, starting with tales intermingled with Norse mythology, before growing increasingly “historically-accurate”) or the Ynglinga saga - some also attributed to him the Egil’s Saga.

Other “tales of the North” include, of course, Beowulf, one of the oldest English poems of history, and the most famous version of the old Germanic legend of the hero Beowulf ; the Germanic Völsunga saga and Nibelungenlied ; as well as the Kalevala - which is a bit late, I’ll admit, it was compiled in the 19th century, so it is from a very different time than the other works listed here, but it is the most complete and influential attempt at recreating the old Finnish mythology. 

# On the other side, the Celtic mythologies. The two most famous are, of course, the Welsh and the Irish mythologies (the third main branch of Celtic religion, the Gaul mythology, was not recorded in texts). 

For Welsh mythology, there is one work to go: the Mabinogion. It is one of the most complete collections of Welsh folktales and legends, and the earliest surviving Welsh prose stories - though a late record feeling the influence of Christianization over the late. It is also one of the earliest appearances of the figure of King Arthur, making it part of the “Matter of Britain”, we’ll talk about later.

For Irish mythology, we have much, MUCH more texts, but hopefully they were already sorted in “series” forming the various “cycles” of Irish mythologies. In order we have: The Mythological Cycle, or Cycle of the Gods. The Book of Invasions, the Battle of Moytura, the Children of Lir and the Wooing of Etain. The Ulster Cycle, mostly told through the epic The Cattle-Raid of Cooley. The Fianna Cycle, or Fenian Cycle, whose most important work would be Tales of the Elders of Ireland. And finally the Kings’ Cycle, with the famous trilogy of The Madness of Suibhne, The Feast of Dun na nGed, and The Battle of Mag Rath. 

Another famous Irish tale not part of these old mythological cycles, but still defining the early/medieval Irish literature is The Voyage of Bran. 

# While the trio of Greco-Roman, Nordic (Norse/Germanic) and Celtic mythologies were the most influential over the “fantasy literature” as a we know it today, other mythologies should be talked about - due to them either having temporary influences over the history of “supernatural literature” (such as through specific “fashions”), having smaller influences over fantasy works, or being used today to renew the fantasy genre.

The Vedas form the oldest religious texts of Hinduism, and the oldest texts of Sanskrit literature. They are the four sacred books of the early Hinduist religion: the Rigveda, the Yajurveda, the Samaveda and the Atharvaveda. What is very interesting is that the Vedas are tied to what is called the “Vedic Hinduism”, an ancient, old form of Hinduism, which was centered around a pantheon of deities not too dissimilar to the pantheons of the Greeks, Norse or Celts - the Vedas reflect the form of Hinduist religion and mythology that was still close to its “Indo-European” mythology roots, a “cousin religion” to those of European Antiquity. Afterward, there was a big change in Hinduism, leading to the rise of a new form of the religion (usually called Puranic if my memory serves me well), this time focused on the famous trinity of deities we know today: Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.

The classic epics and supernatural novels of China have been a source of inspiration for more Asian-influenced fantasy genres. Heavily influenced and shaped by the various mythologies and religions co-existing in China, they include: the Epic of Darkness, the Investiture of the Gods, Strange Tales from a Chinese Studio, or What the Master does not Speak of - as well as the most famous of them all, THE great epic of China, Journey to the West. If you want less fictionized, more ancient sources, of course the “Five Classics” of Confucianism should be talked about: Classic of Poetry, Book of Documents, Book of Rites, Book of Changes, as well as Spring and Autumn Annals (though the Classic of Poetry and Book of Documents would be the more interesting one, as they contain more mythological texts and subtones - the Book of Changes is about a divination system, the Book of Rites about religious rites and courtly customs, and the Annals is a historical record). And, of course, let’s not forget to mention the “Four Great Folktales” of China: the Legend of the White Snake, the Butterfly Lovers, the Cowherd and the Weaver Girl, as well as Lady Meng Jiang.

# As for Japanese mythology, there are three main sources of information that form the main corpus of legends and stories of Japan. The Kojiki (Record of Ancient Matters), a chronicle in which numerous myths, legends and folktales are collected, and which is considered the oldest literary work of Japan ; the Nihon Shoki, which is one of the oldest chronicles of the history of Japan, and thus a mostly historical document, but which begins with the Japanese creation myths and several Japanese legends found or modified from the Kojiki ; and finally the Fudoki, which are a series of reports of the 8th century that collected the various oral traditions and local legends of each of the Japanese provinces.

# The Mesopotamian mythologies are another group not to be ignored, as they form the oldest piece of literature of history! The legends of Sumer, Akkadia and Babylon can be summed up in a handful of epics and sacred texts - the first of all epics!. You have the three “rival” creation myths: the Atra-Hasis epic for the Akkadians, the Eridu Genesis for the Sumerians and the Enuma Elish story for the Babylonians. And to these three creation myths you should had the two hero-epics of Mesopotamian literature: on one side the story of Adapa and the South Wind, on the other the one and only, most famous of all tales, the Epic of Gilgamesh. 

# And of course, this read-list must include... The Bible. Beyond the numerous mythologies of Antiquity with their polytheistic pantheons and complex set of legends, there is one book that is at the root of the European imagination and has influenced so deeply European culture it is intertwined with it... The Bible. European literary works are imbued with Judeo-Christianity, and as such fantasy works are also deeply reflective of Judeo-Christian themes, legends, motifs and characters. So you have on one side the Ancient Testament, the part of the Bible that the Christians have in common with the Jews (though in Judaism the Ancient Testament is called the “Torah”) - the most famous and influential parts of the Ancient Testament/Torah being the first two books, Genesis (the creation myth) and Exodus (the legend of Moses). And on the other side you have the exclusively Christian part of the Bible, the New Testament - with its two most influential parts being the Gospels (the four canonical records of the life of Jesus, the Christ) and The Book of Revelation (the one people tend to know by its flashier name... The Apocalypse). 

[historia-vitae-magistras]

Hi! I really loved a post you made earlier about how society is only now returning to a variety of religious beliefs and was wondering if you could talk more about it. Any thoughts on countries taking up their original religions? Magnus and asatru? Rhys or his siblings with druidism?

TW discussions of religion, religious skepticism and fictional depictions of religion in historical fantasy. I feel like they pick up things they themselves remember but the modern human iteration is... Meh. No shade to believers, I did some time with the Nordic pantheon before the Nazis took it over but the modern iterations of almost all European pre-Christian religions are unfortunately mostly constructed between the 18th and 20th centuries. Almost none of it dates back further than revivals during the enlightenment. Would they see echoes of their lived experience in these revivals? Sure. I just don't know if they'd be adherents to the modern form when they can remember at least some of the real thing, otherwise now dead and gone. So I do think there's things in them that survive but they can't quite look at modern paganism as a belief system.

But two parts I think would really feel important to them: a lot of the pagan revivals are about a rejection of the Calvinist themes of Reformation and counter-reformation Christianity that emphasize individuality, created the belief of the elect who are saved by god and stripped Christianity of a lot of its older emphasis on community and mutual aid and responsibility. I think a lot of the pagan revivalism would very much appeal there and in its counter-culture themes.

And second, because I'm a weirdo who uses hetalia to get into really niche topics and practice writing historical fiction I want to publish when I'm grown, I try to stick to what we actually know. I want to replicate the perspectives of history. The fantastical aspects are often just adaptations of what magic was actually believed in, as far as I can adapt from a very limited pool of knowledge. I have written Alasdair carving the symbols we have from some Pictish standing stones and Ogham, a Gaelic form of literacy into objects and sacred trees to make them into portals and protective objects. I have written Arthur's primary contact with their mother as being not when he visits the site of her barrow and the Kirk that gives them their name that was later built on he same site, but after he drowns or is caught in a storm, because we know the Britons of prehistory and the Roman era and even into the early medieval believed water was a kind of portal between this world and the sacred. I gave Rhys their mother's bronze age sword because magic swords are everywhere in every flavor of Celtic Mythology. Arthur keeps Cromwell's head on the mantel partially because he's a stubborn fuck who can hold a grudge for centuries but also because we know that the ancient Celts believed the head specifically to be a very powerful magical object.

Norse paganism as we know it today is based on things like the Icelandic Sagas and the descriptions of the temple of Uppsala by Adam of Bremen. Those are fantastic documents but they only come into being centuries after the end of the Viking age and are written by Christians, usually clerics, and usually men. Our heads are full of images of powerful priestesses, shield maidens and goddesses, but more than a third of human women were starved as children compared to under ten percent of boys. Every Norse grave is different, with only general categories being able to be sussed put based on grave goods, the style of inhumation or cremation and marking ships or stones. We just don't know fuck all about the specifics what the people of this era really believed.

Or with the British celts. We know what the Romans said. That they burned criminals in wicker men, committed human sacrifice, that the Romans slaughtered the druids on Anglesey in Wales. We know the names of their gods when they are twinned with Roman ones or archaeologists find inscriptions. But so many of them are only known by one or two inscriptions. There are only eight for Brigantia and she was the patron goddess for the largest tribe by territory in Iron Age Britain. We know they offered sacrifices of value to bodies of water, we know from medieval Irish sources, also written by Christians, that they had 4 holidays aligning with the seasons and divided the year into half light half dark. But we don't know shit about songs or prayers or even how much the Romans made the fuck up. Which was likely most of it but we'll never know. What the Picts in Scotland may have believed is especially lost, we don't even have most of their language or even sheep counting like Cumbrian.

There's been a lot of push back against terms prehistory and dark ages and rightly so in that they conjure images of a filthy past, people living in their own shit and grim misery. But on a historical level, on an archival level, there really are such things as dark ages and prehistory where we just do not know the details and when discussing and writing religion I err towards what we know the most about, especially where archaeology and history can support each other.

[o-craven-canto]

Re: your solar system generator

Can I ask what sources you got the names of mythological figures from? I'd love to use them for my own system building

The lists I used for my generator are, in order of addition: Greek, Norse, Egyptian, Hindu (mostly Vedic), Chinese, Yoruba, Arabic (Pre-Islamic), Babylonian, Japanese, Aztec, Slavic, Celtic (mostly a mix of Irish and Gaulish), Finnish, Maya, Polynesian (mix of Hawai'ian and Maori). TBA lists include Sumerian, Canaanite, Hittite, Persian, Turkic, Zulu, and characters from the Bible.

I did not really use scholarly sources for that: I mostly looked through Wikipedia pages for the respective traditions. I used descriptions of the various deities and heroes to find "analogues" of the Roman names used in our own solar system. For some it was easy: Roman/Greek and Sumerian/Babylonian myths largely use the same pantheon with different names. Writers from antiquity found on their own correspondences between the Roman, Egyptian, Babylonian, Germanic, and Celtic pantheons, and modern scholars have found phylogenetic relations between all Indo-European pantheons, adding Persia and India to the table. Once you get outside the greater Europe-Near East-India area, it gets harder. The domains of Aztec, Yoruba, Polynesian, and Japanese gods are all mixed around compared to West Eurasian ones (I imagine Buddhist scholars would have found some correspondence between Hindu, traditional Chinese, and Shinto deities, but I didn't find much on it.) (The religions of the African diaspora in the Americas build correspondences between Yoruba gods and Catholic saints, but that doesn't link them to the rest of the table.) Many of those choices were arbitrary.

Feel free to use literally anything I publish on the web for your own work; the only thing I'd ask is a link to one of my pages once in a while.

[betty-bourgeoisie]

I hope I’m not being a complete dunce, but paganism briefly came up in a conversation with a friend of mine and I was hoping you could explain it to me 😅 (I’m not Christian). I understand that it can be a sort of Christian branch(?) but I’ve also heard it being used to describe like- non Christian related religions.

And honestly, though I’ve grown up in the United States, and a few teachers when I was younger brought it up quite a lot to (grew up in the Bible Belt lol), I never really figured out what it was?

Is it a broad term or a specific term? I understand if you can’t answer or but do you recommend any sources to read about pagans? Where pagans came from and all that? Sorry if this is super random, but I’m not sure who else I can ask-

This is a complicated question because "Pagan" or more accurately "Neo-Pagan" is a very broad umbrella term, and the answers to "what is it", "where does it come from", and "what's a good source on it" really varies depending on what type of Paganism you're talking about.

Here is the working definition I usually give people: Paganism is a general term for religions that have multiple gods/goddesses and believe in magic. These religions are usually based in the worship of nature.

So for an easy example - Hellenism or Hellenic Paganism is a set of religious traditions that fall under the umbrella category of Paganism. It refers to people who worship ancient greek deities like Zeus and Hestia. The greek pantheon is mostly made up of deities that represent aspects of the natural world and daily human life, making it a nature based practice. Some Hellenic pagans will use spells (think candles and tarot cards type spells, not harry potter type spells) and participate in rituals as part of their worship.

But like I said this is very much a working definition, and if you really wanted to get into the weeds on it I'm sure I could find examples of spiritual groups that contradicted each part of the definition I gave and still consider themselves to fall under the Pagan umbrella. And that doesn't even begin to get into the significant number of spiritual practices that technically do fit under this definition but whose practitioners would absolutely never call themselves Pagan.

"Pagan" can also be used as a personal identifier for folks who subscribe more broadly to the even harder-to-define umbrella of "Pagan beliefs" but don't belong to a more specific spiritual tradition so 🤷‍♀️ Idk.

If you ask 100 different Pagans this question you will get 100 different answers. I guess if you want a general rule of thumb, anyone who worships ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse, or Celtic deities can probably be assumed to identify under the Pagan umbrella, but like, you should even take that with a grain of salt tbh.

If you want to see other people's perspectives Patheos does have a whole Paganism section where you can at least get a feel for the kinds of topics and ideas that might regularly come up in Pagan religious space.

[diana-thyme]

Oh! Me!

For reference: I am in school full-time and have multiple physical and mental disabilities.

Also for reference: I worship 19 Greek deities (and am devoted to 2 and another 2 are my patron and matron), 4 undefined deities (aren’t in modern pantheons), 1 Sumerian goddess, 2 Egyptian deities, 1 Georgian goddess (and am a priest-in-training to her!), 3 Norse deities, 1 Roman goddess (and work with her), 1 Slavic god and 1 Slavic entity (and work with the Slavic entity), 4 demons (and have a working relationship with another one), 3 kami (Shintoism), 1 planet (whom I work with as well), 4 Celtic deities (Gaulic and Irish, mostly), and I venerate 3 Saints. I own a TV stand as my altar because I can’t fit it all on a bookshelf.

My religion is my hobby. While others do art or write, and those hobbies take up a lot of their time, I have my worship.

My regular worship is very casual. Prayers, lighting a different candle each day, and occasional offerings when they aid me, when I feel close to them, when I feel like it, or on holidays. Most of my deities I casually worship.

The only problem I have is the different forms of worship. While some are very similar and can be modified to be even more similar (for example, I worship my Norse deities and Greek deities essentially the same way), some are VERY different, like Shintoism and folk Catholicism.

Most of my worship (and even other relationships) are pray-based or based upon devotional acts. Unless it’s a holiday, or I’m feeling closer to someone than normal, or they’ve assisted me with something, I don’t often give offerings. I talk to them, pray, and do devotional acts.

The closer the deities’ domains are, the easier it is to connect devotional acts.

For example, I worship Aphrodite and Peitho. Self-care, beauty things, and the like, are devoted to both of them. I also worship Frigg. Brushing my hair is devoted to both Frigg and Aphrodite. I also worship Palaemon. Swimming is devoted to both him and Aphrodite. You see the point?

Sometimes this isn’t applicable. Apollon is the only craft god I worship, so most crafts go directly to him (or branch out, like writing going to Forneus as well, socials going to Hermes, etc.). Freyja is the only goddess I worship with a connection to cats, so catnip, playing with or caring for cats, etc. are dedicated solely to her (again, with exceptions).

I light one candle every day (or try to, at least), depending on the tone I want to set for the day and what I’m feeling.

I celebrate as many holidays as I can. This can be anything from doing an elaborate ritual to sharing a small pour of my drink.

I devote things I’m already doing to make it easier, like showering for Hygieia or taking care of my dogs for Ares.

A lot of my worship is also research. This can be anything from scrolling through their tags on here to reading a historical book or academic essay on them.

Some of my deities won’t be worshipped for a good period of time. I haven’t worshipped the kami in a while (I’m waiting on a kamidana). That’s just something both I and my deities (it’s a lot harder for me) must come to terms with. Most of my worship is in bursts, and I don’t really feel connected to everyone all at once. This especially happens when I discover a new pantheon.

It’s difficult, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.

If you have any more questions about what I said. please ask! I love talking about this!

How do people manage having these big double digit pantheons? I’m driving the struggle bus trying to have a relationship with 2 deities

[saturnsholorings]

Hi everyone, I’m Saturn (irl name hidden for privacy reasons)

I’m 24, Capricorn Sun & Moon, Aquarius Rising, AuDHD

I don’t have a lot of friends so I made this blog just to act as a digital journal for myself, maybe someone out there will read about some of my struggles and know they aren’t alone.

If anyone wants to be friends, here is a little more detail about me ⤵️

- First things first, I’m a witch! Specifically eclectic/folk/traditional path. Polytheistic, my main pantheons in my ancestry include Celtic & Norse.

- Although I have been practicing for roughly 6 years, I am still struggling to advance in my path and find my niche… I’m trying to to overthink or rush it, but I tend to get pretty impatient. I love art, specifically painting with clays and textures. I also love working with resin and wood.

- My main hobby is crafting medicinal and magical oils, as well as medicinal tinctures and salves.

- I consider myself a chronic list maker. I even had to make this section of the post into a list. I make to-do lists for everything. I have a packing a to-do list for my vacation next month, and I even have lists made up already for when I move out of state next year. I make to-do lists every day, whether I finish them or not. I can’t do anything without having to make a list.

- I am a very emotional person. I feel a lot of feelings all the time, all at once… I am always thing about something. It’s rare when I find something that doesn’t make me emotional and teary eyed. I find beauty in a lot of things and romanticize mostly everything. I think it’s a subculture of delusion but who knows.

- I love music, a lot. I will share some of my playlists sometime. Recommend me your favorite music! I like a lot of different genres… including country (sue me). I love music that sounds like it belongs in an indie movie soundtrack (Young the Giant) and songs that tell stories. Country, theatrical rap, musicals, indie rock, metal, Lofi, you name it….

- My passion is food! I have been a chef since I graduated high school 7 years ago and have been cooking basically my whole life. It’s the only think I’m good at LOL.

If there’s anything you’d like to know, message me!

[leannan-sithe]

Recent anon. Rewording: are there any unusual godspouse individuals or groups you've encountered? I've found a massive representation of a handful of deities in the Tumblr godspouse community all reporting the same sorts of things. I'm curious about what sorts of variations exist out there beyond the loudest here.

Ooh, this gives me some good wiggle room. Thank you for clarifying.

This is mostly about deities, but some of it can apply to spirit partnerships as well.

Most Popular Deities for Godspouses:

Norse, especially Loki / Odin or both The prevalence of facist and hate groups in Norse circles that focus on Odin often makes those potential godspouses who are fascinated by his Various Ways (queer, trickster, wanderer, war-tired, etc) a little skittish around him because they need to unlearn the (false) idea Odin is The Authoritative White Cis Warmongerer

Apollo Love y'all, but the godspousing circuit adores Apollo/n. You cannot get enough of him. Personally, I think the attraction lies in a combination of Pretty Person + God of Truth / Healing, which is tempting to people who want to feel extra safe in a non-corporeal relationship

Badass and/or Warrior Lady Freyja, Artemis, Hel seems to be popular too. It's about finding empowerment in a traditionally dismissed gender, and also wanting a HBIC Wife to hold you, tightly. Sometimes crafting or traditionally feminine maker-arts are involved, as well.

Trends:

Unintentionally engaging with a deity from each major pantheon, ex. Norse, Hellenic, "Celtic", or similarly eclectic spreads of partners

Either partnered with a demon OR an angel, almost never both at the same time

There is evidence to support that one post about a certain subgroup really enjoying the Authoritative Man-in-Charge relationship (read: Daddy Dom) with their god

Unintentionally reinventing forms of Christianity as you try and distance yourself from the trauma of Christianity (ex. only one god, who you see as creator/maker, adapting monk-like lifestyle, prayers, rosaries / prayer beads, simplified symbols of that deity that you incorporate into your everyday life like one does the Cross)

Starting out with a friends-with-benefits relationship with a deity then falling in love and panicking, which makes it terribly difficult to figure out your feelings and makes it even more difficult to accurately interpret divination on the subject

Quirks (derogatory) of the Community:

Subset that demands worship be connected to godspousing and that godspouses are just Special Priests

Quite frankly, the number of <20 year olds who show up claiming they are a Priest of [Deity], yes I'm old and grouchy, don't @ me

Minors who think they should be allowed to do whatever, whenever, because there's no physical component to the relationship

Newly 18 year olds (adults) who casually drop into chat that they've been having an intimate relationship with a deity for X years, and then we're just supposed to be automatically supportive and not ask Questions

"[Deity] caused [Major World Event] and I know because they told me personally, and they said it was sad but it was for the good of the people"

Subset (often the same as point #1) that thinks it's okay for a deity to force their way into your life and divinely harass you or enact lifestyle changes on you that you're not into, and that you should just let it happen because the Gods Know Best

"Godspousing automatically is cheating if you have an IRL partner" Please be my guest and tell all the Jesus-lovers out there that they're engaging in infidelity every time they proclaim Jesus as their Lord and Husband-to-Be

Shock value partners, i.e. the occasional person wanders in with the edgelord sentimentality and has a collection of edgy partners, mostly demons, gods of death, sometimes pop culture entities. All these are fine individually, but I'm talking about a very specific collection of partners that makes you wanna go listen to Heaven Help Us or the Taste of Ink

"Godspousing = Religious" No, please don't go here, please don't be this person. it can be! But altars, prayers, and hymns are not the gold-standard of godspousing

[pagananswers]

Allow me to reintroduce myself

So I don't know if or when I might be posting to this blog. It's kind of the one I have the least commitment to. It's funny how it all progresses. You open an account at one stage of your life, build a life around it, get busy, and the next thing you know, your interests have shifted and you no longer want to be the social reblogger of other people's ideas you once were.

This blog was previously dubbed "Color Me Gothic," but I'm just not passionate about it anymore, and a secondary blog on this account gained a lot more interaction, so I am dedicating my time there. As the new title might suggest, @paganquestions has something to do with Paganism! Specifically, it's about neopagan questions and answers. It's a safe place people can go to ask questions about Paganism and neopaganism, but I don't really get to talk about my own life there so much as advise on what the religion calls for as an experienced practitioner.

My history with religion is broad and thorough. I grew up as a Jew in a Jewish and Protestant Christian household, going to temple during childhood, and church in my teens and early twenties, but consistently finding solace in Paganism throughout that time. I practiced first as a Wiccan but found some faults with Wicca, so I have come (like many) to practice neopagan witchcraft ever since. I still identify as a Jew and also observe many Jewish customs and I'm an agnostic spiritualist. I study most world religions and their scriptures. I have a passion for Taoism, Islam, Shinto, and Buddhism. I grew up alongside a Native American community and I share beliefs, stories, and customs rooted in campfire legends and star gazing stories. I also grew up with my father telling me the greatest hits of Greek myths while explaining the map of the stars. From this vantage point, I have found myself particularly successful discussing religious topics.

I attempt to provide advice and insight from a very central perspective, and I often use Celtic metaphors given that much of Wiccan and neopagan conversation centers around Celtic and Norse lineages while mixing in Greek pantheon mythos. As a person who grew up between cultures and has a deep understanding and appreciation for white privilege and varied views of appropriation, I attempt to respect Wiccan and neopagan beliefs while drawing boundaries and creating understanding from a North American perspective. It's a tall order.

Giving advice on a religion and walking that narrow cultural line does take its tole often, so I am partitioning @pagananswers off from @paganquestions as a way to express and explore my own Pagan views, post art, and blog daily life as a neopagan Jew (mostly the pagan part, obviously). I also have a separate blog with a more secular approach @thefallenshelf where I discuss gardening, political views, and daily life as a physically disabled queer 30something woman in a heterosexual monogamous relationship, adjusting to career changes, cohabitating, and the wonderful world of "What do I do now?" that comes with a career-ending spinal injury. Whaaaat?

Feel free to check any of these blogs out as I am bound to focus more on one than another at any given time and if you like one, you're likely to enjoy at least one of the others. Feel free at any time to submit a respectful question. I love to interact. I'll catch you on the other side. Peace :-)

[vitasmp]

Perhaps in time, Arawn would come to realize that responses from Vitas tended to be direct--there was no bullshitting when it came to the archivist's answers, which was something his professors had appreciated during his own studies. While Vitas could certainly write breathtaking prose, he could also write detailed and in-depth academic papers filled with vital information. However, this professor's next statement elicited a somewhat annoyed sigh through his nostrils.

"Avoiding a subject because you are simply tired of discussing it is a bad teaching habit. Professors should encourage exploration and discourse, not cherry pick the information because they just don't feel like covering it. I strongly recommend you consider a different profession. For the benefit of your students." Again with the blunt commentary, but Vitas also knew that he was right--both as a professional scholar and as a former instructor himself.

As for the compliments regarding his organizational skills, he offered no gratitude for the praise. It was literally just his job and he did not believe he should not be thanked for doing something he was expected to do anyway. "It's more efficient this way," he replied simply as he continued with his task. It was quite the task to recategorize his predecessor's organized chaos, but he liked to think that this was far more convenient and that things could even be found when he was not present.

When it came to those being disappointed in his death, Vitas could literally only think of one, so when the god said he was sure there would be more, the archivist rather quickly responded with an honest, "Doubtful." He didn't have friends and he only person who had ever actually wanted him in her life was already dead; in his mind, the one person who would be disappointed by his death was someone was currently tutoring in a new language; but that person would find a new teacher, surely, Vitas was replaceable in that aspect; it didn't occur to him that his 'friend' truly did think of him as a friend and more than just an instructor.

The circumstances of one's death rarely mattered? "The circumstances matter when that person happens to be the son of the god of war and death," he bluntly reminded this Celtic god of the Otherworld. Perhaps it was because this deity put all his efforts into English literature that he was unaware of what happened to Norse children when they died and that HOW they died was relevant. Nevertheless, Vitas knew that despite his father's mostly hands-off approach since the boy's birth, Odin would fiercely retaliate against anyone who murdered his son, even if that person was a demigod, even more so if it was a god from another pantheon who decided to just take him out; a war between the pantheons would not be ideal, after all, as that could very well be interpreted as a declaration of war. So yes, the circumstances of the archivist's death mattered. It was one thing for his heart to fail during a fight for his life, it was another thing entirely for him to be the subject of a deity's smiting.

But did Vitas ask for or expect special treatment from anyone on this island? No. No, he did not. But he would not hesitate to remind them of potential consequences of their actions should they be considering doing something very, very stupid. Not that he thought this Celtic deity would be stupid enough to seriously consider smiting him for simply stating facts, but it was an important distinction to make.

So many children of Odin--even the half human ones--were powerful and strong, so very resilient and durable physically, but not Vitas. From the moment he was born, he had one foot on the other side of the Veil and death ever looming in his shadow. Every second of every day, his body fought to remain alive; and while he did not fear death, he had made it this far and would continue to live on until he could no longer fight. But that was neither here nor there at this moment. With documents handed off, he gave no response to comments about 'Ama-chan', but he did respond to the question about enjoying his job.

"Yes," he replied with honest simplicity as he made the trek to his desk once more. Because he did find his job as an archivist fulfilling. Removing his gloves, he set them aside on his desk and returned to his laptop, unlocking it with a few quick keystrokes and promptly returned to his translations, right where he left off.

"Blunt and at face value response, how unexpected," the God stated, offering a polite smile, as though the response from the other shocked him. "My class would have a field day if I ever brought in Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet. However, that is the reason for As You Like It and Midsummer Night's Dream. So we can avoid that whole conversation. I had enough of such conversations when we did Lovecraft," he stated, looking at all the archives around him, making a note of the locations for future reference. He briefly paused at a shelf relating to death and burial rituals, deciding to note that for a future personal reading. "I like the way you have everything organized here. It's very accessible and very clear," he stated.

He respected that of a fellow scholar. He knew his joking regarding Shakespeare was somewhat irritating at times, but his underworld was essentially the Isle of the Blessed in arthurian legends, and what most considered heaven back then, so regardless of religion, they all ended up in his realm. The amount of stories he could tell if simply asked.

Arawn was surprised at the sudden honesty from the other, but he kept it hidden. "One person who'd be disappointed? I'm sure there must be more," he stated. As Vitas mentioned his impact, Arawn offered a smile to the other. "Well, from personal experience,circumstances rarely matter. I'm glad you gave me an honest answer. I wasn't expecting that," he said. As he was handed the documents, Vitas gave him the usual speal that he'd already heard before.

"Yes, yes, if I take things out without Ama-chan knowing it's going to be bad for me. I'm well aware of that. Ama and I were on the council together for a time," he stated, settling at the nearby desk and pulling out the lesson plans he'd been working on. As Vitas mentioned that he could take pictures, Arawn laughed. "You really enjoy your job, don't you Vitas?" he asked, grabbing a pen and going down his lesson plans quietly.

He went between the first folder and his plans, scribbling down his notes in indecipherable celtic runes. He'd quietly gone full proffessor mode, as he worked.

[kryptsune]

World Building Wednesday!~ Etherium

🌼 I decided to share one of my AU worlds that is not Fell based. Yes... I know... what is the world coming to? Etherium in essence is my stab at an Outertale based universe though the story and the designs are very different. I really enjoy this one though I don’t talk about it too much. Let’s get started! 

Etherium AU

Classification: Outertale Alternate “Nicknames” Info: 

Sans: Nova- Nova is the trickster though he is mostly associated with that of Loki. Loki is described specifically as “Playful, malicious ( ok maybe not that one), helpful, and nihilistic.” He helps others in a kind of goofy over the top way. He just doesn’t take much seriously. Nova is one of the youngest. He acts very childish at times coming to question how long he has been among the pantheon. Some argue his many centuries gave him a nihilistic outlook on life or that he is too young to understand the true ways of the world. 

Not to say that Nova can’t be serious but he is pretty laid back. It’s one of the reasons unlike the others he doesn’t really keep his cultural ties in his design. He should have more Norse in it but nah… varsity jackets are cozy right? I mean he is wearing star shorts for stars sake. When asked about his job he mentions, “Hey, there kiddo. Nice of ya to drop by. Been up to? Heh well got a “new” job which is pretty cool. Not as cool as Pollux but I help arrange stars. Ya know, like the ones you see in the sky you can make pictures out of? I think you humans call em… constellations. One time I made this giant whoopee cushion one. “Then I lost ma job. Got a second chance though. Andromeda's constantly watchin me. hehe no harm done though.”  Both Pollux and Nova refer to each other as brothers but it is unclear if they are biologically related. Their abilities and strengths are nearly opposite and their mythos even more so.

Papyrus: Pollux- The presumed older brother of Nova. Pollux is associated with Egyptology specifically wisdom. Pollux tends to be the opposite of Nova in that he takes his job very seriously. Once on earth he was known as Thoth gracing humanity with a mechanical and architectural knowledge that astounded the world. His mind and intellect put him at the forefront of innovation making him one of Capricorn's best and most trusted advisors. 

He enjoys testing the mental prowess of others using puzzles and riddles of his own design. Unlike canon Pap Pollux cares more about balance in life. Something his younger brother seems to lack. Not all work and not all play. He is kind, helpful, and willing to give advice to anyone that is looking for it. To the little human Frisk he is a good mentor and teacher. (Pollux has made it his pastime to create a series of challenges to prove a humans worth. If they pass then they are able to speak/ see them. No one has managed to prove themselves.)     

(more characters and info below the cut)

Undyne: Andromeda- Andromeda is not different from canon Undyne as she embodies the Mayan mythology. She is mostly closely associated with the feathered serpent Quetzalcóatl. A deity of wind and rain. Also known as the life giver. Though Andromeda tends to harken back to her more aggressive roots she has a deep respect for the King and acts as his guard. Just like Pollux she too acts as an advisor, though more on matters of security than strategy or mechanics. Such a position is where she first met Elara and to this day the two are inseparable sharing their very different cultures. Her favorite kind of anime to watch are mech based.

Alphys: Elara- Very similar to canon Alphys just as this version of Undyne is. Alphys is based off of Sukuna-Biko-Na (少名毘古那) or the shinto god of medicine and rain. Elara is still very much a scientist and one that has a unique fascination with living things. Everything from the planets, to humans, animals, and plant life. She particularly enjoys spending time in her private greenhouse creating and taking care of all of the plant life. Before the monsters were forced to leave their place among the humans she was able to collect all the DNA of the plants and animals on the planet. 

They are stored in a kind of ark in which to preserve them if anything threatens their existence. Elara is very traditional in her work as her medicines are derived from her magic as well as herbal substances. She is very curious however as she is not allowed to interact with the progress of humanity but rather watches from afar. This is where her love of anime takes hold. Her favorites are ones like Sailor Moon or any type of magical girl anime. She will sit with Andromeda and watch them for hours. Her demeanor is very shy at first but once she opens up she will be a friend for life.

Asgore: Capricorn- The head of the cosmic pantheon he is the King as he is in the original. He is associated with Celtic mythos though he has taken on many pantheon roles in his lifetime. Ambisagrus, a god of thunder and lightning, Ancestor God, Sky God, God of Wind, Rain & Hail is what he is based off of. One such role is that of Zeus who’s main symbol is that of lightning and thunder. Just like the Zeus of mythology Capricorn is constantly debating his involvement with humanity. 

Whether that be to stop their technological advances or aiding in their lives. A large portion of his time was spent with his subjects not so much his wife Aurora who is the jealous type. Capricorn is not a ruthless leader but he does know that sometimes hard decisions must be made. Just like UT Asgore he is kind and benevolent, however, he has a temper if you make him angry enough. His magical abilities lean more toward lighting then fire but he has that ability as well. He tasked Elara to watch over human development should a problem arise.  

Toriel: Aurora- The Queen to Capricorn she is known to be easily jealous. It would explain why Zeus wife Hera also shares these traits. Her Gaelic deity tie is that of Arianrhod a goddess of the moon and stars. She creates life from the stars she creates sometimes causing them to take a form of their own. They are almost like living constellations. Some say that the Queen made such life to combat her own loneliness which her Son and Husband spent time away. In addition to the stars she is also known for being a loving mother and caregiver. In her time on earth she used to watch over and protect children and their families. Aurora though previously jealous of her simple in the universe has come to accept and embrace it. She is kind but rather over protective. Anyone that forsakes life will feel her wrath.  

Muffet: Umbra- Umbra is associated with Hindu mythology as a goddess of wealth and prosperity. Though earthly riches do not concern Umbra she still has a taste for the fine silks and gold that she once had on earth. A little about the goddess that she represents: Lakshmi's name comes from the Sanskrit word ​laksya, meaning an aim or goal. She is the goddess of wealth and prosperity, both material and spiritual. Unlike UT Muffet, Umbra also focuses on a spiritual wealth. A peace of mind. 

She is ever the optimist even when things do not turn out to go her way. In times of need she is called those in the struggles of self worth trying to bring them into a different understanding. There have been many a time when Umbra calms Capricorns quick and rash judgements, much to Auroras displeasure. Just as with the rest of the pantheon she is kind and helpful even with her yearning to return to the people she so loved before they were forced to the outskirts of the galaxy.

Grillby: Helio- Helio derived from sun is my OT Grillby. He out of all the characters could care less about either being a deity or an observer. He is known to be at a middle ground. He would rather live his days running a social establishment but during his time on earth he was known for his magic. Originally he was the right hand of Capricorn being depicted as a war deity for his fiery nature. He was the general of grand armies. His armor is something he hung up long ago but if called into court he will wear it once again. It’s design is very reminiscent of Roman centurions.  

Though depictions of him are curious since his name back then was referred to as Merlin. He was best known for him magic and alchemy and the concoctions he made during a period of time far lacking in imagination. Just like Nova, Helio, tended to interfere far too often in the affairs of man though noble in purpose. He tends to be outcast among the pantheon for his past conduct but he is content in his lab mixing crazy concoctions. Everything from love potions to disguises. His forte is all about alchemy and magic.    

Asriel: Azicree (Azi)- Azicree or Azi for short is the Crown Prince. By monster standards Azi is still very young, however, he has lived for far longer than any human can fathom. His mother used to shelter him until he begged for his father to let him prove himself. He still acts like a child always curious and desiring some form of exploration. Much to Capricorns dismay Azi enjoys spending time with Nova and the two become pranksters in general. He tends to not do as he is told, which is why they are in this mess in the first place. His reckless behavior had him appearing to a human that begged for his salvation. 

The matters of life and death are ones that are not to be messed with. Those that do find their souls being tainted for all eternity turning them into something other than just a monster. 9X is an example of such tampering. Azi does learn his lesson and begins to try and shape up to be a worthy successor to his father if such a thing ever did come to pass. He studies off of all those he knows especially Pollux who is more than happy to share such knowledge. His associations are non existent since he was born after the times of gods. His abilities seem to be mimic based. 

He is able to learn about abilities and use them at will. It is rare that monsters have children and as such Azi is the little prodigy child even though there are many times he just wants to be a kid. He makes friends with Frisk very quickly and learn a lot from the human visitor.  

Gaster: Nero is the Gaster of this universe. He is Capricorns pantheon counterpart. In essence the Hades to his Zeus. He is the monster that everyone thinks about when darkness takes hold. He is the one that associates with apocalyptic events such as ragnarok. He is however not evil by any stretch of the imagination. He would be better suited to be called a god of chaos. He tends to reject the laws placed upon the rest of the pantheon regardless of repercussions. 

It’s speculated that both Pollux and Nova were a part of him and crafted into the monsters that are known today. Nova being his more devious side which Pollux is more his intellect and drive. He has been locked away for a very long time in a prison aptly named Tarturus. His abilities are space and time oriented very similar to Nova which makes him difficult to imprison. He of course has been in his cell for quite some time and it is unclear if he actually has had a change of heart or using it as a manipulation tactic. 

The only one he speaks with on occasion is Azi wanting to learn more about this planet they all used to call home. It is information that the others tend to not speak of. His father more so as he is afraid it will instill a yearning in his son. Nero’s genius is on par with his godly abilities such as creating artificial intelligence. Something that is not considered life. He uses Azi as a template for this new program...  

FLOWEY: 

F- Friendly

L- Life-like

O- Operating system 

W- With 

E- Earthbound

Y- Yearning

F.L.O.W.E.Y was created by 9x and Nova with Azi as a template. He is a charismatic AI who was originally created as a helper as well as to teach the Prince about their planet of origin. Unfortunately Flowey does not have the same reservations about disobeying his father as Azi does. Even going so far as to integrate with key and vital systems in The Capital. He even manages to intercept a human vessel that he finds exploring. Flowey is not evil he just is driven to be the best help he can without regards to any type of consequences. He helps Frisk meet and learn more about their existence. He acts as a companion. 

However when Frisk becomes friends with Azi Flowey's AI goes haywire. He begins to feel emotions he is not technically allowed to such as jealousy. This causes him to try and eliminate those threatening him which in this case would be all the monsters. Eventually Azi attempts to program himself into the interface changing it’s initial programming.  

Blookie: Nebula

Riverperson: Omni

Gerson: Quasar

The Ursas: Ursa Major/Minor

Greater Dog/ Lesser Dog: Canis Major/Minor

MTT: Gigabit

Character Origin/Mythos: 

Sans- Norse (Trickster) Papyrus- Egyptian  Undyne- Mayan Alphys- Japanese (shinto) Asgore- Celtic Toriel- Celtic  Muffet- Hindu Grillby- Medieval (Merlin)  Asriel- Celtic through lineage Gaster- Greek/Roman Blookie- Western Guard dogs- Constellations (Native American) Riverperson- Greek (Charon) Gerson- Chinese (Divination/ wisdom)

Background and Context: 

A long time ago there lived beings of great power. They could bend space and time with a simple thought and bring life to their creations. These were the gods. Ones of great benevolence but also great and terrifying power. Humanity, a primitive race just starting to understand life itself, became their focus. At first their interaction was very rare only occasionally appearing to help but as time went on those interactions became more drastic. Their assistance and knowledge was seen as godlike to this humans. 

They would bring gifts and offerings to their new deities in hopes that they would look favorably upon them. That they would impart their wisdom and magic if they were pleased. In time this became more and more tradition. A religion built upon pleasing these deities so that their lives would be far improved but this became a conundrum for the beings. Some remained benevolent and helpful while others becomes greedy and wrathful. The power began to go to their minds corrupting their souls. These instances were written down in variation by the humans making up grandiose stories of fiery chariots and jealous gods. Thus mythology came into being for humanity. A way to explain the things in which they did not understand. 

As with each religion and deity the monsters each became associated with a specific culture or mythos. Some being pinnacles of their pantheon and others being lesser deities molded to suit a specific task. These monsters rarely interacted with ones of their own kind but as power shifted some of them took on roles of others. One monster could have been the god of war in Greek mythos but end up also as the god of thunder in Norse. There were no limitations to their influence. One such “deity” was that of the trickster. A monster that tended to be rather childish in his ambitions jumping from pantheon to pantheon looking to lighten up his other “deities” stern demeanors. 

The monsters began to pull away leaving their presences in name only and occasional help but this was short lived. It caused problems, war, destruction, and feuding powers sadly began to use their civilizations as almost pawns. Their meddling almost destroyed that which they wanted to originally protect. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The “gods” faded from existence only being remembered in myths and legends. The great prophecy of the Norse. The architectural marvels of the Egyptians. Now they reside in the furthest reaches of the galaxy. They spread out among the stars but a group of them resided in a Capital of sorts. A station at the edge of the Universe. One which no human could ever reach.  

The Humans Impressions:

When the monsters left the humans to their own devices they worship continued long after. Eventually the magic and the miracles that had once been performed faded into history. The monsters were all but forgotten unless mentioned in mythology or scary stories. The humans never harbored any animosity toward them since they no longer believed in their existence in any form. They only understand what their ancestors depicted them as. The monsters as well don’t really have anything against humans either. All in all, they just go about their jobs and enjoy the universe, helping from time to time discreetly if need be but never showing their faces.

Main Plot Synop: 

The plot to Outertale is very simple as it is more based around the world than it is the actual plot. It is very similar to that of the regular UT timeline with some notable differences. Once the humans reach an age of technological advancement they begin to spread out and search the stars. Some of them encounter monsters which they mistake for aliens (hilarious enough. I mean Jerry looks like an alien.) They begin to build colonies living more and more outside the reach of their own galaxy. Humans however tend to turn on their own creating factions within the space colonies. Some more prosperous than others. 

Frisk’s colony was one such beast being cut off from the other colonies as a drifter. Unfortunately Frisk’s family was nearly non existent and being stuck on a space colony was little to be desired. After seeing a streak of fire slamming into the outskirts of the colony. Frisk decides to investigate. They have always been the curious type disobeying orders and questioning everything. The colonies outer and more dangerous regions became their playground finding old pieces of technology. Eventually they stumble upon a crashed ship. One that  It seems to damaged to be used but it’s nothing like they have ever seen before. Everyone else on the colony consider it to be cursed. 

The strange runic language is confusing but Frisk finds that there is one lone computer onboard that seems to still function. It flickers with a bright yellow light showing an almost pixelated Flower with a =) face on the screen. Over the next few days Frisk returns to decipher the runes with the help of their new friend which they find out is called Flowey. It is a project that the curious human enjoys and for once it is nice to have a friend. Eventually the runes are deciphered claiming some sort teleportation capability. Once Frisk is close enough the system fires up on its own sending the human straight to the monster Capital on the farthest reaches of the universe. A place that no human has ever been.   

The rest of the story is an exploration of this new environment. Frisk befriends the monsters who don’t attack first. They actually mostly want to engage with the human showing off their ability a little bit. A part of them misses the previous worship. Nova seems to take a particular interest in this new human especially when they befriend Azi. They work to help shut Flowey down only for Azi to impart his knowledge on the interface helping it understand. Frisk has nothing to return to so they stay with the monster and become Azi’s human tutor so that one day maybe the monsters can return and live side by side the humans once again. Both Azi and Frisk are almost like siblings coined the star children.  

[scarletarosa]

Hello! Have you ever encountered any of the Baltic pagan gods (specifically Lithuanian ones)? I was wondering, are they are the same entities as norse or celtic gods or not? And how are they doing these days? I am extremely sad that there are no written records of my country's mythology, since like most european countries, we were christianized. And when christians taught us to read and write, instead of teaching us to use that knowledge to write our traditions and mythology down, they taught us to read by reading hateful words about our religion, making a mockery out of it. I just hope the gods are doing okay now. There are groups of people who still worship them and I hold them dear in my heart.

I haven’t spoken much to this pantheon yet, and have only met a few so far. I just know that they aren’t the same as the Norse or Celtic gods but are a group of their own kind. These deities are also doing relatively the same as all other pagan gods nowadays, which is rather badly. The gods are all often bitter and deeply saddened due to the many losses and how hardly anyone honours them anymore, or how they are usually regarded as myths, or not regarded at all. They still solemnly watch over the lands, gazing over the disturbed landscapes that used to be filled with life and temples. 

But overall, they’re feeling relatively broken-hearted and angered over the loss of the old world, which was raped by monotheism. They also wish to be frequently helping humans face-to-face again, but nowadays the gods mostly attend to their divine duties or helping humans who aren’t even aware of them (usually the Christian god is thanked instead). Every time any person who approaches the gods out of respect, they are usually pleased and will seek to broaden the spirituality of the world through them once again, little by little.

[theoi-crow]

Have you had any experiences with gods outside the greek pantheon?

OMG YES!!!

It took me literal years to find out that the Greek Pantheon was the one for me so in the mean time I experimented and interacted with gods of other pantheons:

-Irish Celtic: Back in the 90s and way before the internet was what it is today, the only access I had to self taught witchcraft was Wicca. I never liked how heteronormative it felt but I knew Christianity wasn't for me. Wicca has a lot of Celtic elements (like the name of the holidays on the wheel of the year) so I tried interacting with Brigid, and while she was very kind, it didn't feel right because Wicca wasn't for me and I didn't have access to the actual Celtic practice at the time.

-Norse: I interacted with Odin for a bit but it also felt like it wasn't right for me. He was very kind and helped me understand a bit more about their lore but the connection wasn't happening since it was during a turbulent time in my life. Still, we bonded over the corvid family and we talked about fatherhood.

-Roman: I have a very soft spot for Mars in my heart but I don't energetically vibe with the rest of the Pantheon only because the Greek Pantheon was reaching out to me and I kept confusing them for the Roman Pantheon. Their energies are very different. Someone once described Greek history feeling like smoke while Roman History felt like a brick and it can also be how I'd describe the energy of the gods. The Greek religion just feels more familiar to me so it was hard to work with Roman Gods.

- Native American and African: As a white passing BIPOC It makes me uncomfortable to talk about my experiences with African or Native American gods so I'll be skipping these sections.

-Christian: I have worked with both Jesus and Lucifer outside of the Christian religion. I see Jesus as an ascended master that preeched love in a time of non-stop war and he's always hanging out with Dionysus when he does show up. He's incredibly chill and isn't a big fan of the bible especially when it's used to hurt others. When I was younger I would see Lucifer pop in every now and then especially when Ares was with me. He was always very passionate about helping me learn independence and made it easier to cope with my religious trauma. Gabriel and Michael are also angels I often worked with but now I mostly ask them to protect my family from harm.

-Greek: I've worked with Demeter in the past. She helped me mourn for the loss of my relationship with Ares after we had a falling out. I've also interacted with Cronus before… He's very grumpy but helpful.

I hope this helps!

[gentlemyosotis]

(rambling) ancestor research and the weird things I’ve experienced

2023 edited because I found out the DNA test was wrong and I’m redoing my thoughts here because it makes a lot more sense now.

So, lately, I’ve been trying to connect more to my heritage. All I know is that I’m mostly Italian, Irish, Scottish, and German. The majority of that is Italian, like 50 percent, but I’ve never felt connected to traditional Italian history aside from the artwork. I know they have some old folk practices but because of the ch*rch they’ve been very tied into it... 

I’m gonna jot down a bunch of my thoughts/experiences with this here, but I’d love to hear input from others who might know more than I do.

The DNA test I took basically said I’m mainly from all around Italy - mostly Italian. I have Irish, Scottish and German though as well. Still, I’ve never felt connected to any of these - which I think may be due to the ch*rch erasing so much of their cultures. I don’t really have anything to be connected to because of them.

What I know is; I feel very connected to the Greek pantheon, but not to the Roman pantheon at all. I strangely haven’t felt much of a connection to the Norse pantheon so far, except for Freyja (and potentially Loki) a long time ago, but it didn’t pan out for me. It feels kind of like a not-right-now, which kind of makes sense given where I am right now. Still, despite not feeling connected to the Norse pantheon (so far) I’ve noticed some things while researching Normans.

In trying to connect more with my ancestry, I tried listening to reconstructions of what ancient languages would’ve sounded like. I did this because I was randomly interested in a youtube video of a man talking about an old Norse poem - and he read it, in Old Norse. It sparked something in my brain when I heard it, and I had to hear more, so I ran some tests by listening to more videos.

Hearing most of the languages didn’t give me much of a reaction, but some gave me some strong ones - and some were oddly specific. Hearing the Roman reconstruction (Latin I suspect, but it was labelled as Roman, I don’t know the reason) made my stomach drop, like a bad twisting feeling in my gut. Not a good experience, like fear. 

Ancient Greek felt like a distant friend, one you haven’t seen in a while but you remember fondly and want to send a letter to. It’s a friendly feeling, but far away.

Proto-Celtic and British/Late British Celtic felt very warm, friendly, and comfortable, and it gave me the second-strongest (good) reaction. Instead of feeling like a distant friend, it felt close.

Old Norse gave me the strongest (good) reaction that I can only describe as excitement and pure joy, like revelry and discovery. It’s vague in some places, and hard to describe, but it was a good experience.

I think I’m just stuck on what to do from here. I feel like I’m looking for something, but wiki pages don’t give me the answer. I’m wondering if I should try to contact my ancestors at some point, but I’m just not sure at all how I’d communicate with them (and actually confirm that I’m speaking to my ancestors and not some other kind of spirit)

[honourablejester]

Worldbuilding with Deities

AKA some thoughts on how to make pantheons for your fantasy worlds.

Okay. So this is fairly heavily inspired by D&D specifically, because some of the published settings feel very lacklustre to me in the deity department (*cough*Eberron*cough*), but it also feels like a general problem in fantasy when your setting is not ‘medieval or heroic western fantasy’ where you can just file the serial numbers off the Greek, Norse or Christian mythologies and call it good. I also feel there’s a bit of an issue with either darker or more technological settings, where there’s a push to either have no gods, evil gods, or relatively powerless gods, to show that this is a more enlightened and/or cynical setting that doesn’t rely on silly things like faith. Which is perfectly fine if that’s what you’re actually going for! But. You can have a very wide variety of settings and still have cool and interesting deities in them.

With D&D specifically, I feel like part of the issue is that clerics, paladins and warlocks are playable classes, so there’s mechanical considerations to keep track of. So when you’re worldbuilding a setting, you feel some pressure to ‘tick all the boxes’ with things like cleric domains, and it feels less like building out your setting and more like making random stuff up to fill jobs, which sucks some of the joy out of it. If clerics and deities and mythologies are your jam, excitement will carry you through, but otherwise it might feel like a bit of a slog. Ticking boxes on your worldbuilding forms.

Of course, clerics and deities and mythologies are my jam. So I possibly don’t have much of a leg to stand on here. But. I’m also a pantser when it comes to worldbuilding, and nothing turns me off faster than lists of things to shoehorn in. So. I do have some thoughts here.

When I’m building a mythology, and not just making up a couple of gods for a quick story, I do have a bit of process. It’s mostly subconscious, granted, but there is a method there. Things I consider in a particular order to get where I need to go.

So. Thoughts for rough-and-ready mythology worldbuilding for pantsers who don’t like to overplan. A quick summary:

Mood/Genre

Important Concepts/Themes

Overarching Goals

Reverse-Engineered Cosmology

Further Details

Mood/Genre:

This is the one I think about first and foremost. For worldbuilding in general, really, not just building pantheons. Everything starts from the mood for me. The tone of what I want. What my world is going to feel like to people. Do I want something bleak and pale? Wild and whimsical? Meaty and heroic? Urbane and subtle? Is the world wild and empty and only partially discovered, or completely full to the brim? Is it starting out, fresh and wild and new, or fading away, weary and dangerous and despairing? What does it feel like?

Genre usually follows from tone. Am I looking for dark fantasy? Something post-apocalyptic? Urban low fantasy? Old-fashioned sword-and-sorcery? Celtic fantasy? A rough-and-rowdy beat-em-up?

You don’t have to be overly specific on the genre. I mean, you don’t have to plan that in advance. The tone is the overriding thing, genre will settle itself. But sometimes it’s easier to conceptualise or pitch a thing by its genre.

Once you have the tone nailed down. The mood of what you want. You move on to …

Important Concepts/Themes:

When you’ve gotten a tone, then you can start to think about the concepts that might be important in it. What concepts that would be culturally valued in a setting of this tone, and concepts that would be regarded with suspicion. The themes that divide it up. This is where your domains start to come in, and also where you start to line up what the ‘good’ gods vs the ‘evil’ gods look like.

A question that I find helps here is what do the stereotypical ‘heroes’ look like in this kind of world? Are they rogues up against the man (urban fantasy)? The faithful against the profane (heroic fantasy)? The simple warriors against the sorcerous villains (sword and sorcery)? The fragile monster hunters against the unrelenting darkness (gothic horror)? Etc. This’ll tell you where domains like knowledge, trickery, arcana, war and order will broadly line up on the morality scale.

This is how you get your darker/bleaker settings in as well. You just rearrange your value-sets somewhat. Think about what is still valued in this world. What might usually be valued in a less strained setting, but might be more questionable here. In a post-apocalyptic world, where survival is the name of the game, perhaps gods touting ‘peace’ and ‘acceptance’ are viewed as corrupters, trying to get people to resign themselves and lay down and die. Or they’re saviours, offering a peaceful afterlife away from the horrors of what the setting has become. Dealers choice.

The point here is to get a broad, overarching theme or set of themes to arrange your pantheons around. In a dark fantasy world, it might be light vs dark, faith vs corruption. In a strongly urban fantasy, a very built-up setting, it might be anarchy vs fascism, rich vs poor, honesty vs corruption. In a post-apocalyptic world, it might be hope vs despair, survival vs surrender, life vs death. In a bawdy heroic fantasy, it might be exploration vs safety, civilisation vs freedom, natural vs unnatural. You’re thinking about the driving forces in your setting, the big conflicts that shape it. What things have value, what things are frightening.

And remember, this comes back to the feel of the world. You’re not writing a moral screed here (or, well, you can, but it’s not my primary point), you’re picking the themes and conflicts that will most highlight the mood you want.

And then, once you know the conflict points your gods will be divided along, you can move on to:

Overarching Goals:

What are the deities in your setting working towards? What are their main goals, what are they trying to preserve or destroy or make or accomplish? This lets you divide them up into groups that are working with or against each other. It’s an easy mechanism to build pantheons around, and is based on your themes/values from the previous point.

So. In your urban fantasy setting, built around themes of anarchy vs fascism, honesty vs corruption, rich vs poor. You have your gods of civilisation and tradition, of honesty and respect, of building and preserving. And you have your gods of change and chaos, of trickery and freedom. You have your gods of greed and corruption. Your gods of ascetism and simplicity. You could have them all the one pantheon, forever gaming between themselves. Or divide them out, make two primary pantheons around that first divide, civilisation vs anarchy, with each of them viewing the other as evil, and then several other deities on the outskirts, trying to gain for themselves, or poke at the larger pantheons.

In your post-apocalyptic setting, dark and bleak, built around hope vs despair, survival vs surrender, life vs death. You’ll have your gods of life and protection, of bastions and defenses, of nurturing and rebuilding. Gods who want to protect what’s left and help it rebuild. Then maybe you’ll have gods of death and annihilation, gods of despair and madness, gods of acceptance and fading. Gods who want to help the world limp along to a final darkness. And possibly you’ll have gods of light and defiance, gods of hunting and exploring, gods of lost knowledge and future innovation. Gods who want to reignite the world, kick it back into high gear, and maybe destroy it in the process, but better that than a long slow slide into a hungry nothing!

In your heroic fantasy, big and bawdy and brave, built around exploration vs safety, risk vs reward, civilisation vs freedom, might vs might. You might have people-specific pantheons, in a big empty world where every race or culture is out for themselves. Gods who pick (or come from) specific peoples, and act to make space for them in this brave new world. Other gods, with bigger or smaller goals. Gods of chaos, thriving on the general anarchy of the world. Gods of civilisation, striving to unify it more. Gods of annihilation, who want to wipe the slate clean, and who are great for everyone else to rally against.

There’s a lot of archetypes to work with here. When you’ve got your mood and your theme, it’s easier to get a picture of the type of god that’s going to live there, to embody that. Then what types might stand a good counterpart or complication to it.

Divide your pantheons up broadly along your themes. Feel out which domains and concepts and ideologies belong with which camps, which might be shared between them. What the pantheons as a whole culturally value, what individual gods value, what that means for their allegiances and goals. What deities would be outliers, independent, what ones would work together, what ones hate everyone but are broadly aligned in goals with others.

From there, we’ve got two further considerations, which I tend to do in whichever order makes sense at the time. One of them:

Reverse-Engineer Your Cosmology:

By which I mean, the origins of your deities and the mechanisms by which gods and/or universes are created in your setting. Can gods be made or created later, or did they have to exist from the start of the world? If they can be created later, how can they be created? How willing are the gods to personally interact with the world and to what extent? Did the gods create the things they’re in charge of, or are they avatars of them, or did they just divvy up jobs the old fashioned way? Etc.

Now. I know a lot of people prefer to do this step first. Cosmology first and work down from there. That’s perfectly fine if that works for you! For me, though, it really doesn’t. It’s far, far easier for me to reverse-engineer it later, after I’ve sketched out what my setting feels like and what sort of gods I’d like to exist in it. It’s easier to have realisations like ‘this setting is way too bleak for ascension to be an option’ or ‘this setting values freedom and chaos too much for everything to have been set in stone from before the beginning’ or ‘this setting is too subtle and low-key for vast holy gestures to be feasible until endgame’ if I’ve already run through the rest first.

Also, it’s easier to come up with backstories if the setting is already sketched. If I decide gods can be made, I can look at things like the cataclysm that defined my post-apocalyptic world and go ‘that made or killed a whollle bunch of gods’. If it’s a gothic/dark fantasy story that relies very much on faith and hope vs monstrosity and darkness, then mortal-origin deities who were so hopeful or monstrous in life that they became avatars after death becomes an obvious option. Things like that. Cosmology is easier sketched in retrospect, I find. You’re not paralysed by fitting stuff into a pre-existing grand order of the universe. You can come up with stuff as it pleases you, and work back to justify it later. (I mentioned I’m a pantser, right?)

And the other consideration:

Further Details:

Once you have your broad-strokes themes and pantheons sketched in, you can flesh them out and start building stuff above, below, within and around them.

Above would be the reverse-engineered cosmology above.

Below would be: servants, celestials, lesser deities, demigods, mortal champions, mortal organisations, priesthoods, cults. What the gods have put into the world. Artefacts. Locations. Ideals. Religions. Powers and magics.

Around them would be other beings, devils, demons, eldritch abominations, etc, and where they fit in this setting. Anomalies to the grand order. Etc.

And within them would be: individual gods, backstories, personal histories, what gods are most powerful depending on theme, what gods are most independent, what gods have changed allegiances in their history, what gods does nobody know their allegiances. What do the gods themselves feel about their jobs and their goals and their means to enact them. Once you’re down off the broad strokes and into the details, remember that your deities are individual, thinking beings as well. Perhaps they can learn, change. Perhaps they have personal hangups from their histories that preclude their doing or joining a certain thing, despite the thematic sense it would make. Perhaps they identify more strongly with a particular aspect of their nature/domain that could put them over into an unexpected camp. There’s a lot of room to muck things around and complicate them once you’re into the nitty gritty.

If stuff crops up here that makes you reconsider any of the previous points above, follow it. Play with it. Maybe adjust some stuff because of it. It often happens to me that a small specific detail will catch my imagination so much that I’ll edit huge chunks of the world around it. Possibly this works out better for writing personal worlds than for live game worlds that have other people in them, but still. It’s a point to consider. Stuff likely will come up later. Mood or tone might shift a bit, entirely naturally. Don’t go too far down into fixed details. Leave enough things vague or sketched that you’ve wiggle room later for adjustments.

In Summary:

Voila! My bootleg process for worldbuilding in general and worldbuilding deities in specific: start with what you want out of it, the mood and tone, the feeling of the setting. The themes and conflicts you want people to explore in it. Then jury-rig the rest out of that. Move to your goals, your factions, your big forces. Then your smaller details, individual characters and personal details. Your origins and your processions, going back and going forward. Reverse-engineer what you’d need to have done to get the setting you want, set the stage for where you might want it to go later. And always remember to keep things loose enough that you’ve got room to play and adjust and be surprised later, often by your own flighty brain.

Also. Deities are just characters, when we’re talking about fantasy settings. You don’t have to make any specific real world points with them. You just have to make them fit with the mood you want within your setting. You build your universe to fit your story, because fantasy allows us to do that, unlike the real world where we’re stuck with whatever was premade earlier. Heh. So don’t get too bogged down with what you need to add in or leave out to make things ‘dark’ or ‘realistic’ or whatever. Anything can be made to be anything, if you build stuff around it the right way. So add in whatever you want, and jury-rig the rest until it fits. Get a strong enough, loose enough base, and you can add in a surprising amount without upsetting it too much. In my case, that’s the feel. Get the tone nailed down, get some good strong archetypes to build the show on, and you can play merry hell with it from there.

It’s a good general rule. At least for rough-and-ready, adjusted-as-required stuff. Start with what you want, set up a loose framework for it to fit in, then jury-rig the rest from there.

(Or make stuff up out of whole cloth in a blind panic and spend the entire rest of your time straining to keep one chapter ahead so no one figures it out, until you hit a surprise endgame that absolutely no one, least of all you, was prepared for. You know. One or the other. Heh)

So. Good luck inventing gods? Hope this works for more than just me? Eh. Hopefully there’s something worthwhile in it, and good luck!