#Even A Low-Class Warrior Can Surpass An Elite | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

sweetescapeartist · 2 years ago

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What do you think of MasakoX's What If Nappa Turned Good?

I watched some of it. Maybe up until the Buu Saga, I think. Wasn't a fan of it after a while. Nappa being subservient makes sense due to him pretty much being Vegeta's attack dog. So him kinda being a bodyguard of the Son family makes sense.

HOWEVER... Nappa was an evil guy. Know how long it took Vegeta to become a good guy. Over 16 years. Nappa isn't as stubborn as Vegeta, but I imagine it would take Nappa a few years less than Vegeta to become good. And why would Nappa stay on Earth? After he is healed, he would do 1 of 3 things;

Challenge Goku and get his butt kicked because Saiyans are too prideful (arrogant).

Leave the planet in shame as well as wanting revenge on Vegeta for betraying him.

Return to Vegeta to try to be in his favor again. There is a Saiyan hierarchy & both of them follow it religously. Even if Nappa was upset, he understood his rank.

I don't see a scenario where Nappa becomes friends with Goku and company unless you change Nappa's personality from what it was. And if my memory is right, I think MasakoX had Nappa train with Goku on the way to Namek? If so, that makes no sense to me.

Now regarding Super Saiyan Nappa. Or more specifically, Legendary Super Saiyan Nappa... wasn't a fan of that. Reason being that most Saiyan would never be able to achieve the Super Saiyan state due to how they live and how they just aren't genetically gifted like Vegeta who was the prodigy among elite Saiyans or Goku who has had decades of spiritual training that ended up helping him meet the requirements for Super Saiyan. Nappa would need years upon years to become a Super Saiyan. Look at Paragus in DBS: Broly. Paragus as an old man was as strong as Nappa. Meaning Paragus was stronger in his youth from training with Broly. Yet Paragus never got SSJ. To become a Super Saiyan, you need to meet the right requirements. Nappa does not have the pure heart, wasn't a prodigy who surpassed the King when he was just a child, didn't have years of spiritual training like an Earthling, and with new information... his S-Cells count was low as it was for most full blood Saiyans.

I know video games show that every Saiyan can become a Super Saiyan, but they can't. Most of the Saiyans can only become Oozaru. So that should've been Nappa's power in a what if. He either becomes an Oozaru or he somehow uses Oozaru power in his base form similar to Broly in DBS. But a Legendary SSJ? Nah. Makes no sense for Nappa to get that. (Idk if the what-if story came out before or after DBS: Broly. I think it was afterwards.)

Also, Nappa being a gardener? I guess that's okay. Its only based off of the fact that he planted Saibaimen. But all he did was poke a hole in the ground with his finger, plant the seed, poor some kind of liquid on it. Nappa is mid class. Gardening isn't something a mid class Saiyan warrior would likely do. They would do more fighting while the low class Saiyans who are unfit for combat do gardening and other stuff like ship maintenance or meat distribution. It also seems like Nappa being a "gentle giant" was supposed to resemble Android 16 and how he valued nature. The idea of a Saiyan being a gardener isnt bad. I just think it fits more for somebody like Tarble who is considered a disgrace to the royal family & a very low class member warrior race & would have a job like gardening instead of being a wartior.

Lastly, my memory of the what if might be wrong in places. Its been a long time seen I've seen those videos. So if I need correction, correct me.

#anon #ask #Nappa #What if #MasakoX #DB #DBZ #DBS

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sweetescapeartist · 4 years ago

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WHY SAIYANS AREN'T THE GREATEST RACE 🙊

(But Saiyans have more potential than other races.)

So here's why I disagree with Saiyans being the greatest & strongest race. Many factors have to take place in order for Saiyans to get stronger.

POWER

The strongest that full-blood Saiyans could get with the best training is SS3 levels.

Maybe Saiyans could reach higher levels without god ki if we take GT into account, otherwise, SS3 appears to be the max. A Saiyan's max attainable power with the best training could be Vegito levels of power before they get too old & are unable to fight or they die of old age.

But keep in mind that Goku said not even fusion could defeat Beerus.

Goku had to do a ritual & train with an Angel just to attain god ki. (Other races may have something similar to the ritual. Other races could also train with Angels. Like Toppo.)

Most Saiyans weren't pure of heart or righteous. SSG could possibly be achieved by very few, but keep in mind that Saiyans don't have deep training & aren't spiritual as a culture. They would not know how to get as strong as Goku had learned.

TRAINING & SPIRITUALITY

Vegeta started training hard during the android saga. His reason for training was because he saw how beneficial training was for a low-class Saiyan like Goku, who became the legendary Super Saiyan before a royal Saiyan elite could.

Its important to note that Goku was raised as an Earthling, learned Earthling martial arts & he developed spiritual insight that Saiyan culture doesn't seem to have. Also Goku trained with 2 gods (Kami & King Kai) and acquired further power to rival Saiyan saga Vegeta. He then surpassed Vegeta in power & far surpassed him in skill because of his Earthling training.

And realistically it would be difficult for most Saiyans to even achieve the Super Saiyan transformation. They would solely rely on the Oozaru transformation. A select few elite warriors/royal Saiyans might get strong enough to achieve Super Saiyan. But from what we know about Saiyan training, it would be a very very long time before they could achieve Super Saiyan. Only the Super Saiyan transformation could even be as far as they could get.

Like I stated earlier, Vegeta was motivated to train after he saw how beneficial training was for Goku (who has Earth training & trained under 2 gods). If Vegeta never met Goku, Vegeta probably would never achieve Super Saiyan. On their own, Saiyans would most likely never see benefits of such training. They are a warrior race that see death-battles as the best training.

Goku who has martial arts training focused on self improvement, godly training, & spirit control training from the Yardrats understood how to train and conquer the Super Saiyan transformation. That's knowledge Saiyans dont have nor would their culture care about.

So lets say we give a few Saiyans the Super Saiyan transformation. I don't think Saiyans would share the knowledge of Super Saiyan with each other. Stronger ones would suppress the weaker ones until Saiyan society collapses or a civil war breaks out that would result in many casualties.

Goku saw the flaws in just buffing up the muscles of Super Saiyan. Vegeta who has a lack of deep training and Saiyan thinking, he did not see the flaws. He isn't trained the way Goku is. Being a martial artist & spiritual gave Goku a huge advantage over every other Saiyan. He was able to use his knowledge to push Gohan (a hybrid with Earthling principles) to reach Super Saiyan 2 even before a full blood Saiyan could.

Yes, Goku more than likely attained Super Saiyan 2 soon after he died. & more than likely, Vegeta attained it a few years after Cell was defeated. Goku was able to discover Super Saiyan 3 only because he was dead for 7 years & was able to train. His understanding of training and not having a physical body helped him achieve the new form.

No other full-blood Saiyan can achieve Super Saiyan 3 because of the training it takes & the toll it puts on the body. Goku barely even uses it in DBS for that reason (also because they are marketing SSG & SSB instead).

SCIENCE & ENVIRONMENT

Now if we go back to the point of attaining the Super Saiyan transformation, new information has told us that most Saiyans have a low amount of S-Cells; the cells needed in order to become a Super Saiyan.

Their way of life as being warriors who lived to fight all the time is why they could not build up S-Cells. S-Cells that are built up from a gently spirit (most Saiyans lack). Peaceful environments are necessary for this build up of cells. Saiyans naturally thrive for constant battle. The chances of Super Saiyan are even slimmer with S-Cells in mind.

UNIVERSE 6 SAIYANS

Universe 6 Saiyans are mostly good hearted & live much more peaceful lives than Universe 7 Saiyans. It would appear that the good Saiyans defeated the wicked Saiyans in Universe 6. So how come Cabba is somehow the first Super Saiyan? I guess Universe 6 Saiyans don't know how to train properly either.

And lets be honest, it was terrible writing how Cabba & Caulifla attained Super Saiyan. So you're telling me that not one Universe 6 Saiyan had never gotten angry over losing a close friend or family member while on the battlefield? Sure, whatever. Logically, since Cabba never saw Super Saiyan before, it can be said that Super Saiyan is either non-existent or only royal Universe 6 Saiyans have achieved it & keep it secret.

"But the tingly back thingy!"

If a tingly back was only necessary to attain Super Saiyan, then Goku, a master martial artist, should've taught that to Gohan so that Gohan wouldn't struggle so much during training to defeat Cell.

EDIT: Goku more than likely did teach Gohan the tingly back thing after Gohan became a SS. Mastered SS is not triggered by rage. The tingly back wkrks well if dont like this.

But rage is what Super Saiyan has always been activated from. We are still told that the transformations are emotional. Great anger/rage is how Super Saiyan is triggered

(DBS manga chapter 52 & information guides tell us that Super Saiyan is still triggered by rage.).

Caulifla not only achieved Super Saiyan within a days or few hours, but she achieved Super Saiyan 2 the next day! Gohan has the most potential out of all Saiyan because he is a hybrid with a good heart & had some of the best training to have. It DOES NOT make any narrative sense from all that we've learned & continue to learn about Super Saiyan transformations. And the way Caulifla got 2 transformation within 2 days belittles the efforts of Goku & Gohan for the sake of "Look! A female Super Saiyan!"

If Caulilfa can achieve Super Saiyan 2 after only having Super Saiyan for a day, why didn't Future Gohan easily tap into Super Saiyan 2 as well & defeat the androids? Such convoluted writing for Universe 6 Saiyans... 😑

Out of Universe 6's three Super Saiyans, only Kale's transformation seems reasonable because it is set up similar to DBZ Broly. Kale controlling her power within a few minutes in the anime was stupid tho... The manga handled Kake better because she never gained control of herself. But... she had enough sense not to kill opponents and drop them out of the arena... So did she have control or not? A berserker is out to kill, not drop you out of bounds so she isn't eliminated. 😓

Nevermind. Both handled Kale's Super Saiyan form wrong in different ways...

(I have a theory that Universe 6 Saiyans may actually be Saiyan/Earthling hybrids. Which is why its easier to get Super Saiyan and they don't have tails anymore. But that's a different discussion.)

BACK TO UNIVERSE 7 SAIYANS...

So about how strong a Saiyan could become on their own. I was being generous saying full-blood Saiyans could possibly get as strong as Vegito at most. That's more so something only Goku could attain. Saiyan culture & life, heart condition, lack of spiritual connection, & lack of good martial arts knowledge keeps them from growing. If they did train to get stronger then the most they can achieve would be Super Saiyan 2. The Super Saiyan God ritual would be attainable by some, but they could not absorb the power like Goku (thats because of his disciplined training) nor would Beerus allow Saiyans to keep causing havok. He planned to destroy them anyways.

And I'm sure that if one lone Saiyan achieved Super Saiyan on Planet Vegeta, Freeza would destroy the entire race out of fear. If Freeza somehow lost, Beerus would eventually destroy them.

LUCK & GENETICS

Goku, Vegeta, Broly, & Tarble were lucky and able to live different lives from the average Saiyan, be kinder beings or have their hearts changed (wouldn't happen for most Saiyans). Goku is the 1 in a trillion rare Saiyan that got the best training & he influenced surviving Saiyans to be more like Earthlings.

(But even after all the training Goku did in OG Dragon Ball, Raditz was much stronger than Goku. That means most low class Saiyans were around the same strength as Roshi & ChiChi.)

If we are generous and say some Saiyans could've achieved Super Saiyan 2 and would not try to kill each other, then they still lose to aliens like Piccolo, Krillin, Hit, Jiren, Ribrianne, Cell, or 16, 17, & 18.

Give Hit god ki and give him Angelic training to learn Ultra Instinct. He doesn't even have god ki & yet he can keep up with Goku who needed god ki to reach such power.

Broly would be the exception because he is a Legendary Super Saiyan & in a way a mutation too. But his power is uncontrollable. Imagine Broly snaped & tapped into that uncontrollable, monterous power on Planet Vegeta. All Saiyans there die within seconds.

Saiyans are very strong aliens. But other aliens are stronger or understand how to get stronger.

If anything, Saiyans have some of the best genetics & potential that give them a very high possible advantage. However, that is not a guarantee. But Earthlings & Namekians also have very high potential they can utilize along with knowledge far beyond Saiyans.

Being raised as an Earthling is the secret to Goku's power. Being half Earthling is the secret to Gohan's great power & potential. Its as if an Earthling's potential and training & a Saiyans potential and genetics are the perfect mix for a reason. Like they're branched from the same ancestor & are counterparts in a way. 🤔 (But that part's just another theory of mine.)

CONCLUSION

Without god ki, Goku loses to almost every opponent & enemy in DBS. Goku even says SSG is a power he couldn't achieve on his own. He was nearly at the peak of his power until he learned god ki.

And like I have stated, either ritual or Angelic training could be something any race could possibly utilize.

That's what I gathered from the info we've been given.

AFTERWORD

If you disagree that's fine. Disagreements aren't a bad thing. But if you say I'm wrong on something, show or cite evidence within the series (DBZ & DBS in particular) that says or shows otherwise.

All info shows us that most Saiyans would never be strong like Goku. It was luck & circumstance that Goku was not raised as a Saiyan but as an Earthling. Otherwise he would not have been unable to compete with Vegeta or Goku would've been destroyed on Planet Vegeta, killed on the battlefield, or quickly killed by someone stronger than him.

Please don't rebutt by saying things like "Well they're stonger than Earthlings." or "Their god forms are stronger than everyone else."

Those don't work.

If Earthlings trained like Goku (not like Saiyans because Saiyans don't train like that. Its an Earth thing💡) then some humans could surpass Super Saiyan 2. Evidence shows that Krillin & Tien & Yamcha have surpassed Namek saga Super Saiyan Goku. And they aren't addicted to training like Goku does. But when they do train, they make great leaps in power even without transformations.

God ki isn't something every Saiyan can learn (like Goku & Vegeta have) nor is god ki something exclusive to Saiyans. Look at Dende & Uub (DBS chapter 66). Goku being raised as an Earthling, trained as a martial artist, & training with lower gods is what aided his learning of god ki. Vegeta began to train diffetently after seeing a weaker Saiyan's results after training. Plus god ki had to be learned. I doubt Whis or Beerus would teach them if they were evil.

#saiyans #dragon ball #db #dragon ball z #dbz #dragon ball super #dbs #i like saiyans so i try my best to understand them from the resources we have

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