#Dean Boland: the most hated man in the universe

[michelleelizabethtanner]

if beth never got into crime do you think she wouldve ended up divorced? if she did get into crime but didnt meet rio would she have ended up divorced?

i think dean had more of an issue with rio than he did with beth doing illegal things. if it werent for rio i dont think dean wouldve been as upset about the crime part and ultimately wouldnt have ended their marriage. i go back and forth on whether or not beth wouldve ever pulled the trigger on the divorce. she stayed with him and put up with so much i think she got so complacent and resigned to what her marriage was that idk if she ever wouldve left dean. what do you think?

This was really thought provoking, Anon. There’s a lot to consider because “what ifs” are hard. I guess I’ll pose a question back to you: do you think Beth would have ever committed a crime or ever allowed herself to entangle with someone like Rio if she didn’t already have a shifting mindset?

Crime and Rio weren’t what caused all this for her. Her acute realization to her powerlessness was the driving force behind her grand rebellion. If it hadn’t been crime, it would have been something else. It if hadn’t been Rio, it would have been someone else. Just like with anyone complacently rolling along, allowing life to happen around them, she hit rock bottom. She opened her eyes to what kind of life she’d allowed for herself and she took meaningful action.

Yes, I think she would have left Dean. Because the moment she smashed Dean’s office was the moment Beth became Elizabeth. She didn’t have a name yet, she hadn’t realized her full potential yet. But she was done at that moment. She allowed the repressed rage out and she felt how good that power felt. She would have chased that feeling again. Crime was a means to an end. Rio was a tool in helping her along. But power is what Beth truly sought. And she would have found a way even if there was no crime and no Rio.

To your point that Dean always cared more about Rio than about crime – yes, he did. Because he didn’t understand the root cause of Beth’s crisis. He made it make sense with an affair. Because that’s how HE dealt with his own crises. So he never really saw that what Beth was going through was vastly different than what he went through. She wasn’t just finding solace in someone else so she could heal her bruised ego. Her very soul abandoned who she’d been and Rio was only a part of her metamorphosis. Rio was witness. Dean’s affairs were about Beth and his resentment toward her. Beth’s affair with as about herself and gaining back the power she’d given away. Dean never understood a single thing about her, which is why he waited around so long, thinking her crisis would pass and she’d be back to ��normal.”

I can’t imagine a world in which Beth would return to her complacency after getting a taste of power. It was over the moment she picked up that sledgehammer and busted up Dean’s office (how Rio later gained back power by busting up Dean’s Corvette.) She would have left Dean regardless.

[mego42]

207 Discussion Q’s

shout out and thank you to @pynkhues for putting these together even though she wasn’t gonna be here this week

1. What was your favourite scene of the episode? Tell us why!

obvs the dubby but underrated fav is Ruby and Jane in the closet, idk exactly why but I am starved for the families interacting with each other content (screw the timeline, the most unrealistic aspect of this show is that they aren’t constantly in and out of each other’s houses with ben and sara continually being called on to babysit) so this little snippet makes me levitate

2. Was there any scene that missed the mark for you? And if so, how?

the annie and noah scenes for sure. I mostly feel betrayed bc I really liked them the first time I watched (i have a lot of built in affection for sam huntington let me live) and now I’m like BEGONE FOUL BETRAYER and feel pre-emptive fatigue over annie’s taste in men and how that’s not going to get better any time soon

3. I know time does not exist in the Good Girls universe (or in reality anymore), but let’s start with a timeline question! The implication of the opening montage is that a bit of time has past since Beth strongarmed the partnership with Rio at the end of 2.06. How long do you think it’s been? And more importantly, what do you think these early days of their partnership looked like?

I tend to lean towards at least 2 months, maybe more based on:

the number of shoeboxes and how many times Beth’s shown making a closet deposit

how lived in their annoyance over Beth’s dividing her time and Rio pushing back feels

the implication (at least how i read it) that Rio’s annoyance stems from having to track Beth down which presumably implies they’d grumbled their way into a semi-functional working relationship prior (supported by their ease with each other in 208) and if the montage has only been a month, that would be a maximum of 4 meetings and I don’t particularly think that’s enough time for them to get over being extremely prickly with each other

the fact that Beth goes to Rio for help when Jane’s missing (again, to me implies a longer period of time to get over some of their antagonism than a max of 4 meets)

I imagine their initial partnership went something like Beth being a smug brat about forcing her way in, Rio being deliberately unhelpful and trying to force her to admit she’s in over her head (while still keeping enough of an eye on things that his money isn’t jeopardized), Beth stubbornly refusing to and finding ways to rise to the occasion, Rio being grudgingly impressed, Beth being annoyed with herself for how pleased she is over that. Lather, rinse, repeat until they’ve worn a cantankerous but bizarrely comfortable groove into each other.

meanwhile, Mick, Annie and Ruby are absolutely disgusted by everything happening in front of their eyes.

4. The first scene between Ruby and Turner in this episode is a really dynamic one! It’s pretty clear that Ruby’s afraid of Turner, but what do you think Turner thinks of Ruby?

I think he sees a big cartoon canister labeled "Beth Boland Bait"

5. Taking the kids to the drop was a pretty big mistake! What do you think Beth should’ve done in this instance? Do you think saying no again to Rio was an option?

CALLED BEN OR SARA FOR A BABYSITTING ASSIST. For fucks’ sake.

And yeah, I think she could’ve said no to Rio but he would’ve kept her cut of that drop and, even worse, would’ve been able to hold the fact that she didn’t deliver that one time over her head forever more.

6. The krav maga teacher offers some sage advice telling Dean to not order the hit and instead just divorce his wife, haha. Do you think that he thought the baby hitmen would come through for Dean? Or do you think he was deliberately setting Dean up to get robbed?

I choose to believe the krav maga teacher knew exactly what kind of an idiot Dean was and set him up because the dude clearly had at least two brain cells to rub together and anyone with two brain cells to rub together would never get tangled up in a murder plot with Dean standing on the street corner telling random bystanders in detail how he wants to kill the guy that fucked his wife what do you mean established means and motive Boland.

7. During Ben and Annie’s tense conversation, Ben tells Annie that she’s hard to keep track of - she’s parent mom, cool mom, sketchy mom. In a lot of ways, this feels like a parallel to Ruby talking to Beth in the last episode and calling her ‘drug Beth, gun Beth, human trafficking Beth’. What do you make of this? And how do you think it relates to the show’s themes?

I defer to @foxmagpie’s answer because I like it a lot. 

8. The scene with the girls in the house! Tell me all your thoughts please!!!

I love this scene a lot

Beth’s channeling Rio in general but also specifically in 201 you will never ever change my mind

Sometimes I lie awake at night wishing Rio had seen it

Prayer circle that he sees a version of it in s4

Can you imagine the nightmare level of boner he would get? The sheer narcissism!!

Ruby’s obvious wish for new friends is The Most Valid

I really love the main drug den guy, I love Blake Shields’s energy, it makes the scene crackle, and I wish they’d bring him back purely bc he’s gr9

9. Annie meets Noah in this episode! What do you think of their introduction to one another? And how would you rate Noah on the scale of ‘Garbage Annie Love Interests’?

at least he’s not her therapist I guess

10. Beth has two pivotal and emotionally revealing fights this episode - one with Dean and the other with Rio. How do these fights compare? And what do you think they tell us about her respective relationship with them?

UUUNNNNNFFFFFFFF

I L O V E how hard the show goes on Dean’s obsession with Beth and Rio as the primary source of his angst

the fact that he’s trying to rope Stan into murder while looking for Jane who isn’t even MISSING but Dean had NO IDEA bc instead of giving a shit he went straight to HOW CAN THIS BE THAT GUY’S FAULT

I love how clearly they delineate that it isn’t about Beth but specifically about someone else ~*~taking~*~ Beth from him and how emasculated that makes him feel (something something something the storyline opens with the krav maga guy choking him out and then telling him to divorce her and Dean being like I reject your rational and logical solution bc it doesn’t punish the man who touched my property, idk i have a half baked thought there but i can’t pull it out of my brain)

and then it’s all underscored how little Dean’s worried about Beth and her safety by him bringing her work up specifically as a gotcha (which, unless I’m forgetting something, is p much the only context Dean ever brings it up in besides maybe the sit down fight but that’s again, about Beth acting out vs genuine concern)

Meanwhile, this is contrasted with:

Beth flipping tf out at the mere suggestion Rio would ever hurt her children, showing how deeply and instinctively she trusts him in regards to her children aka what’s been established as her Most Important Priority over and over (in the same breath that she rips into Dean for losing Jane in the first place)

which is doubled down on her immediately going to Rio for help

and he is FURIOUS at her, but the thing he leans hard on isn’t how she could have jeopardized the business deal (aka his money, what’s been established as his Most Important Priority over and over) but how she jeopardized herself and how badly she can fuck up if she doesn’t take this seriously

putting himself in a vulnerable position (presumably burning a connect, letting on that Beth means something to him beyond business) to look out for Beth’s emotional well-being

And then, just to drive it home a little further, @sothischickshe pointed out the Beth and Rio fight over Beth’s self preservation is directly paralleled with Stan freaking out at Ruby over the IA stuff because he’s worried about her and I had to go and stare at a blank wall for a few minutes to calm down.

anyway, draw your own conclusions.

11. Ruby takes Jane being missing as an opportunity to try and find evidence on Beth for Turner and, in the process, finds Jane too. How do you think this scene captures Ruby’s moral dilemma? And do you think it’s a satisfying turning point in the Ruby-Turner arc?

I struggle a lot with the Turner and Ruby plot specifically because I HATE that Turner’s ruthlessly leaning on Ruby as the weak link but I’m also ferociously attracted to him so I’m less bothered by it than I feel like I should be so mostly I just try not to think about any of it.

Idk, I see it in some ways as a continuation of Ruby’s fight with Beth and Annie in s1 where Annie said she isn’t blood. They put Ruby on the outside but when push comes to shove, Ruby still puts the two of them above her own family. As far as I’m concerned, Annie still owes Ruby a massive apology for that. Beth I let off the hook a little because by the end of the season she’s ready to turn herself in to make it all go away for all of them (I think, unless I’m misremembering, which is entirely possible bc I don’t think I’ve ever rewatched all of 213)

12. RIO GETS BETH THE DUBBY!! That’s it, that’s the question. Please discuss.

I think a lot about how the gesture is so baldly honest neither one of them can face it either at all (Rio) or without taking a shot first (Beth) which, now that I’ve typed it out, is also an interesting flip of their general MO bc under normal circumstances I’d put Rio down as the one that, of the two of them, is more willing to face stuff whereas Beth’s the one that hides from it.

[pynkhues]

I was wondering, in the c&c universe, who in Beth's kid would be the more likely to do something that could really piss off Rio? Like he seem to always remain calm and in control with the kids, I sometimes wonder how he would react if one of them did something really really bad...

Ah, this is such a fun ask! It’s such a funny thing too, because I sort of had loose thoughts in my head about the kids when I started writing C&C, but they’ve really firmed up across the course of writing it (which I hope has come across for people reading!) It’s been so fun to imagine the kids as more than just plot devices and scenery like they often are on the show (not all the time! But…. sometimes), and even more fun imagining the relationships both Beth and Rio have with them.

So, okay, for everyone reading, this is all purely Center and Circumference stuff, not canon, so just keep that in mind.

(This list is ordered least prone to being infuriating down to most, haha, not age, which I think in both canon / C&C is Kenny – Danny – Emma – Marcus – Jane).

Rio definitely finds Emma and Kenny the easiest.

Emma

Emma is someone I typically write based mostly off her s2 characterisation (and a bit off her s1 characterisation!) as being incredibly sweet and gentle. She’s a bit of a tattle tale, a bit bossy, super well-behaved, but also very bright, kind and creative. She’s hands down the easiest of all the kids for both Beth and Rio, but is also prone to being oversensitive about things and totally useless when it comes to defending herself or standing her ground. She’s not weak-willed exactly, just she doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny and she hates conflict.

With all of that, Rio’s relationship with her is very paternal and pretty protective. He genuinely likes being around her because she’s quiet and studious and thoughtful, but he also gets immensely frustrated by her – particularly as she gets older – because she’s a little too soft, and she wounds easily, and is a little prone to being taken advantage of by kids at school (which scares the shit out of both Beth and Rio, even if they won’t always admit it). Particularly in highschool, Emma’s the sort who’s desperate to fit in, and will do things out of character to get there, which totally breaks Beth’s heart and infuriates Rio to no end.

Kenny

I actually see Kenny as being someone who’s fairly sensitive as well. I think the show portrays that in the sense of him generally being pretty gentle and overly trusting, and having his anxieties manifest through his binge eating (which was a massively underdeveloped storyline, but I liked it and am running with it, haha). In C&C – which I’ve written in a few times already – I see him generally as having ‘manned up’ when Dean moved out, and made a big effort to help Beth more and to be a good big brother to his siblings, but also still being somebody who’s fairly soft at the centre of him and prone to anxiety.

During Beth and Dean’s divorce, he also got progressively more protective of Beth, and that’s something he initially struggles with in terms of her and Rio’s relationship, but as Rio and Beth become longer term and more and more stable, and Rio keeps looking out for Beth, Kenny really does come to love Rio, although he always has - - not reservations, but I think he’s the first to realise exactly what sort of work Rio does, and it worries him constantly – something that only gets worse as his relationship to Rio grows and he becomes worried for him too.

Kenny’s…not the brightest crayon in the box, and he can be a bit of a dick, particularly during adolescence (what teenager isn’t?), but he’s not really rebellious. Beth and Rio have the most issues getting him to study and getting him to have any sort of ambition or direction that isn’t fleeting (he’s a (adequate) jack of all trades and a master of none!)

In terms of the kids most capable of pissing Rio off, it’s sort of a three-way tie for different reasons, haha.

Marcus

Marcus is, of course, Rio’s son, and in that he’s charismatic, cute, a little more cunning than he pretends to be, and too smart for his own good. And Rio knows, of course he knows, but he’s a little more blind to it than he realises he is, which just entertains Beth to no end. He was a natural born troublemaker, and Beth sees it instantly, but Rio is forever convinced its Jane’s influence, and sees Marcus as more of a golden child than he is (although to be fair – he’s a pretty golden child).

Beth develops a really strong relationship with Marcus, particularly through cooking as Marcus loves doing that with her (Rio can’t cook, and despite the fact that Marcus’ mom – Laura – manages restaurants, she’s all business, not the craft of cooking really at all), and he actually kind of loves that Beth calls him on his bullshit while also being loving and fair, whereas Rio is someone who’s prone to penduluming between approval and disapproval when it comes to the kids, haha.

Marcus generally though is pretty relaxed, a voracious reader, lowkey competitive (he loves a boardgame and plays a range of sports in highschool), but he’s also someone with a bit of a wild streak – particularly in terms of pranks, partying and toying with the line of the law as he gets older (usually with Jane. Okay, always with Jane).

Jane

And ah, Jane. My favourite Boland Kid after s2, haha. She’s snarky, stubborn, is brought to life by gross things, and is about as reckless and prone to misbehaving as Emma is to, well, good behaviour (although Jane does actually listen to Beth too – just like in 2.07 – she didn’t cross the road!). Jane is a terror through and through, and sure, she has a heart of gold, but as Annie will say “At what cost?���

Jane rebels hard, but despite that, she adores both Beth and Rio, and while she exudes confidence, and is a natural born leader, she’s a lot needier than she pretends she is, and is very much the family baby. She doesn’t make friends easily, but she found another half in Marcus – who becomes basically her twin in many ways, but who she’s also sort of in constant battle around because for all the ways people gravitate to Marcus, they tend to avoid Jane (sexism and misogyny’s a bitch!) and Marcus, despite all his best traits, just doesn’t get it and assumes it’s usually because she’s pissed someone off. In no small part because Jane also is somebody who’s pretty naturally antagonistic, but she’s also fierce and kind and loyal and smarter than she pretends to be. Particularly as she gets older too, she becomes closer and closer with Emma and Beth, but also Annie and Ruby.

Jane’s probably the kid Rio finds most frustrating on a surface level – she’s the one who’s always in trouble after all – but as we all know, Rio kind of loves troublemakers, and there aren’t any smoke and mirrors with Jane. She is what she is, and Rio doesn’t have favourites (outside of his son of course), but if he did – despite himself – Jane would be it. He loves that little jerk, haha.

Danny

So the winner of the ‘kid who pisses Rio off the most’ is Danny, and I feel a bit bad for saying this here, because I haven’t actually really written much of this in yet (although it’s heavily plotted into Part 4 of C&C and very firm in my head). Danny’s definitely the kid on the show that we know the least of, but he’s also pretty consistently quiet in the scenes we’ve seen him in, and so I have rolled with that, haha.

He’s artistic and creative, albeit pretty average at non-artsy classes at school (although not a struggling student at all), but he’s also really quiet and almost private. Not secretive exactly, but he’s a kid who doesn’t like much attention drawn to him, who embarrasses easily, and who just likes to do his own thing – which proves a nightmare for both Beth and Rio for a few reasons – firstly, Rio’s SO into art, and sees so much talent in Danny, that Danny’s really just too embarrassed to show Rio (particularly early on – I think Danny’s the slowest to warm to people too), secondly, he’s prone to wandering off on his own and disappearing (I keep wanting to write this with Beth and Rio both freaking out in their own ways and somebody should prompt me, haha), thirdly, his tendency to fly under the radar means he gets away with things and can misbehave without drawing attention until he’s arrested for graffiti), and fourth, (which is a lowkey spoiler for Part 4!) that that tendency towards not drawing attention to himself means he can be genuinely sick or hurt and prone to hiding it. (I also headcanon him in this series as being very prone to getting sick generally, but that feels like a whole other thing).  

And all of that really is something that pisses Rio off – both when Danny’s still a kid and when he’s older, because Danny’s surprisingly good at playing innocent and Rio doesn’t like being made a fool of – whether that be Danny pretending he doesn’t have a fever before school only to have Rio called a few hours later by the school nurse, to when he’s older, and pretending he doesn’t care if Rio comes to a tiny, low-rent artshow everyone knows he’s better than, and then being upset when Rio doesn’t figure it out, which is to say nothing of poor Beth, haha.

Anyway, clearly I need to write more Danny and his nightmare self into C&C.

But yes! The answer to your question is Danny, haha, although they are all terrible, wonderful dumpster kids in their own ways.

[michelleelizabethtanner]

what do you think beth was going for with the whole "i just really like having sex with him" line? was she downplaying other feelings to herself? was she trying to get a rise out of dean? i dont think she was cuz that was a relatively peaceful conversation between them. but obviously the sex isnt the only thing about rio that does it for beth. i would think shes trying to downplay their connection but more for herself not trying to stick it to dean at all but idk

I’ve spent some time trying to formulate the general feel in my head about this scene into actual words. I super appreciate the ask, Anon! Love the ones that really get me thinking.

I agree with you, this wasn’t said with the intent to wound Dean. They had just come to an understanding and Dean was just waiting for her to sign the divorce papers. By this point she wasn’t even having sex with Rio anymore. Didn’t expect to ever have sex with him again. They’d just played their 20 questions game and he asked her to leave. She was under the understanding that whatever they had was over.

She came into Dean’s study with the intention of validating him. She told him he was right. That she couldn’t quit crime. That she liked being good at something most people could never even dream of doing. It’s because of this candor that I think she didn’t intend her words to hurt Dean. The opposite. I think she offered him the gift of honesty. In a broken marriage I think both members of the couple struggle with the unnerving feeling of never quite knowing what’s true. Especially in cases of affairs. Beth knew firsthand what wondering does to a person. How it makes you feel like you’re crazy and like maybe you’re imagining all these things that your partner is lying about. So she told him. Not through veiled denials, not through gaslighting him, not through her clear changed sexual preferences. She told him in actual words that what he thought she was doing with Rio was true. That he wasn’t crazy. That she had sex with him and she did it because she liked it.

The calm behind the statement was pity. Or maybe even empathy. Because she knew how it would feel. The truth is both a pain and a relief. She’d felt those feelings before. Except Dean’s honesty came with anger and with blame. “What did you think would happen?” He blamed her for his affairs. Beth’s honesty came from a place of almost kindness. Despite Dean’s lead-in asking for a comparison, she didn’t compare him to Rio. She didn’t blame Dean, even though Rio DID listen to her more and DID encourage her in ways Dean never had. But she didn’t make it about Dean (the way Dean made his affairs about her shortcomings, hurting her more.) She took it on herself. Confirmed it for him with that pitying little “yeah” at the end. She took responsibility for once and let him have the truth. Because she thought their marriage was ending.

I do agree, there was a lot of self denial in the statement, too. Idk if Beth even has the vocabulary to express the conflicting and complicated emotions that she has about Rio. But in this specific moment, it didn’t matter what she felt. She was telling Dean the truth for his benefit. To end his suffering of not knowing. It was a kindness despite his fallen face.