#DW negativity

[leikeliscomet]

(Reposting from twitter)

My POV as a Black fan that thinks Dot and Bubble's racism commentary is trash

Rewatched Dot and Bubble and I'm gonna break down from my POV as a Black fan why this episode didn't work for me & why it's an awful racism commentary. Long arse post incoming:

The whole "You should've noticed the cast was all white except for fifteen ha your bias is showing" doesn't work for a show that's been predominantly white for 60+ years. D&B casting has been the default for most of the show so its not abnormal enough to be a racial litmus test. An example is the Matt Smith era The only reoccurring character of colour in s5 (2+ appearances) is Liz 10. Artie n Angie in s7. 0 in s6. RTD's own era isn't fully safe either. For many eps Martha or Mickey are the *only* Black characters. Most POC are side characters or extras.

White fans should be aware of the predominantly white casting of the show but this late in the game feels cheap. Most of the show has gone through 100% white episodes including fan faves and it was never an issue back then bc it was beneficial. This is so hollow. Representing racists as cartoon caricatures SEVERLY underestimates the danger of white supremacy irl. White supremacy is system designed and constructed and rebranded over centuries. It is not accidental. People aren't racist bc they don't know they're racist because they *do* They know the system that oppresses POC, Black people especially, benefits them socially and financially and that is why they participate. Its not stupidity it's intention. That should've been the Finetime core not Lindy goofing around bc the arrows are gone or some shit.

Human Nature showed us racist young people that exercised this power bc they knew this. They may be children but they are still dangerous bc of their views. Martha knew this. The silly tech obsessed gen z angle erases this danger and that of actual gen z white supremacy

Instead of the camp goofy tone we could've gotten a serious focused episode. The slugs and millenial/gen z social media silly distracts from what could've been the main theme of colonisation instead of saving it for 10 mins of exposition at the end & scattering microaggressions. Saving Fifteen's racism scene for a goofy episode was a horrid idea. Spending 30 mins on representing racism as silliness then giving a dramatic dangerous score is the definition of tonal whiplash. Representing his oppressor as a blonde bimbo again does not take this seriously. Fifteen went to 1960s BRITAIN & got through it unscathed. Finetime is a fictional futuristic land but the racism of 1960s Britain was real. If anytime was right it could've been Devil's Chord. Distancing yourself from a panto villain is easy but addressing your history is hard.

The scene itself is incredibly performed so I'll give Ncuti his flowers but what he used this skill for could've been so much more. Having his FIRST SCENE begging to save a racist is disgusting. It isn't Black people's responsibility to show compassion to people that want us dead. Yes the Doctor helps the baddies bc they care. But they're aren't ignorant to prejudice. The liberal anti racism of who is so jarring and why I still think Thin Ice is performative. When white people are angry at injustice it's radical. When it's Black people we're aggressive.

Respectability politics is a tool of white supremacy. That if one pleads and is nice enough they can earn liberation. What would white fans think of Fifteen if he DIDN'T beg Lindy? If your allyship with Black people depends on showing kindness to racists you are NOT an ally.

Next up is Ricky. It was established ALL Finetime citizens have white supremacist views yet Ricky September stans refuse to see him in any negative light. Just like Joan Redfern white dw fans refuse to see racism if a character is likeable. If nice guy Ricky's a racist, then anyone no matter the niceness can be racist too and that's a pill white fans aren't ready to swallow. If racism is systemic and not about individual character, then what's keeping them safe? What happens when YOU are under the microscope.

THIS is why we NEED Black writers in Doctor Who. The nuances, depth and complexity of the Black experience can only be told at it's best by Black creatives and not guessed, assumed or spoken over by white fans and white writers. It's okay to put ego aside and say you don't get it.

"Im white but I loved the Doctor's reaction" "I'm white and i thought the racism commentary was great" "I'm white but i-" Yet again, we have to sit through another round of white and non Black fans of colour dictating Black representation for us. I'm so fucking tired man. AGAIN IM YELLING FROM MY HILLTOP TO WATCH SHOWS BY BLACK WRITERS. Almost EVERY single theme in Dot and Bubble and frankly most of the show has been done WAY better in other media. RTD is not the authority on Black stories. We are. Always have been and always will.

Tl;dr Dot and Bubble is an unserious and tacky racism commentary. It's core message is drowned by more RTD Who camp. Don't tell me this episode was good at representating my own experience. It wasn't. S15 having Black writers isn't a need it's a must. Goodbye.

Reblog this version pls

[causalityparadoxes]

Also not sure how i feel about Sutekh "always being there". Like on one hand, its an average lore changing finale. But on the other, eeehhh?? K??? Like obviously Unnatural History, time always shifting, canon fake etcetc.

But idk man i don't know what to do with that yet. Like fr Russell? he was there the entire timewar? During Satan's pit? Did he cling onto Idris or House in The Doctor's Wife?

I know looking for logic in something this ridiculous is silly. But like whats up with this, man?

[dandelionjack]

saw this on the forbidden app could not resist reposting because it’s true. “the one who waits is almost here” is lazy LAZY writing. stop dangling lore in front of our faces… make it SUBTLE. show not tell…

did russell go to the chibnall school of bad screenwriting before his return because these episodes do genuinely feel like they’ve been created by a different person entirely than the emotionally intelligent, thoughtful showrunner who gave us the first four series

[intuitive-revelations]

I don't know if I'm excited or frustrated at the 'future children' angle for Susan's origin. On one hand... I'm very interested in the possible links to the likes of Miranda, the Other etc.

On the other hand... ok confession time: This may make me a minority in the fandom, but I actually really dislike the 80s-90s retcons of Susan's origin. (Birth of a Renegade, Lungbarrow etc.)

I kinda just like her and the Doctor being some of the last surviving members of what was once a family on Gallifrey. I find the mystery and tragedy of what happened on Gallifrey, with implied student uprisings and political assassinations, far more intriguing than any twists saying "actually she's not really his granddaughter". Fortunately, some things can be canonwelded into that (eg. Susan really could be also related to the president / descended from Rassilon), but stuff that actually gives her an origin elsewhere is always a pain.

Idk. I just see once being a parent (and losing it all tragically) as such a crucial part of the Doctor's background and Susan fits very well into that as far as I'm concerned. Anything disconnecting her from that, or worse erasing it completely, ultimately damages what I find to be one of the most compelling things about the Doctor and Susan. :/

The few posts I've already seen talking about this suggests this is an unpopular opinion, but I'd be interested to know what people think, and if they agree or disagree...

[ssaalexblake]

Why is 13's regen abt a white dude and why is 15's regen abt a white dude when do we get rid of that white man that just Cannot let other people have their own moments I swear this is so old, like really, it's a tale as old as time where white dudes are the center of the narrative and universe and everyone caters to them, and I'm so bored of it being celebrated. It's not innovative, it's not new, it's not brave.

[sol1loqu1st]

my thing is just like. even if all the theories about why this season has been mediocre so far (minus boom. boom was great) turn out to be true and we get a great finale that totally justifies the rest of the season being disneyfied and lacklustre. it doesn't like. retroactively make the season not disneyfied and lacklustre. the greatest payoff in the world (and tbh none of the theories are, like, that good anyway) would not justify rtd rehashing all his old material But Worse This Time and robbing ncuti gatwa of a good first impression

[bingqiv]

hundred percent believe that if moffat or chibnall had written that finale more fans would be willingly to admit that it was shit.

[faeleven]

the other thing about space babies is that it fucking sucks as an introdution episode. whiplash from boring contextless exposition to "ooooh look at our shiny CGI" is not my idea of fun! "season 1" my ass if this was my introduction to dr who i never would touch it again. compared to episodes like rose or the pilot that allow themselves to sit with the characters before jumping into plot, are confident enough to leave things unexplained because they know they can keep the viewer coming back for more regardless... we used to have real television

[seaweedstarshine]

Late to the game as I’ve kinda been kinda non-here for a minute but I scrolled through the Dot and Bubble tag, and thought I wanted to write this post into existence.

There's this part in Doctor Who Unleashed where RTD says this:

“What we can’t tell is how many people will have worked that out before the ending. Because they’ve seen white person after white person after white person, and television these days is very diverse. I wonder, will you be ten minutes into it, will you be fifteen, will you be twenty, before you start to think, everyone in this community is white. And if you don’t think that — why didn’t you? So, that’s gonna be interesting. I hope it’s one of those pieces of television you see, and always remember.”

And I'm like. Yeah. But the reason this works even as well as it does is largely thanks to the work of the previous showrunner with the previous creative team, which was notably the first era to have any writers of color (amongst other firsts in terms of inclusivity in directors, composer, actors). While Chibnall fumbled whenever he tried to write about race himself, he did have the self-awareness to have Black and South Asian writers writing the episodes where race is the focus (and a female writer for the episode where sexism is a focus; my point is, he seemed to know his shortcomings).

I wonder what the current creative team looks like? (not really, but I wasn't 100% sure for all of them)

To quote RTD:

“...before you start to think, everyone in this community is white.”

This is pretty non-self-aware, right? It's pretty “It is said, and I understand this, there was a history of racism with the original Toymaker, the Celestial Toymaker, who had ‘celestial,’ and I did not know this, but ‘celestial’ can mean of Chinese origin, but in a derogatory way,” right? (from The Giggle Unleashed) It's pretty “and I had problems with that, and a lot of us on the production team had problems with that: associating disability with evil,” right? (from Destination Skaro Unleashed)

—none of which are issues that should be overlooked, but think how much exponentially better they might’ve been addressed if he’d consulted with Chinese writers and wheelchair-using writers before going straight to giving the Toymaker weird fake accents and making Davros walk?

How many Black or non-white people do we think saw the Dot and Bubble script before it landed in Ncuti’s hands?

And this just keeps happening.

And like, from some of the shocked responses I've seen from white viewers to the ending of Dot and Bubble, maybe the episode's unsubtlety was needed? From the way RTD talks about it in Unleashed, the episode was written with a white audience in mind, Baby's First Microaggressions (where of course the microaggressions come from people who are pretty self-admittedly white supremacists). Ricky September, a more seemingly normal depiction of someone in the racist bubble of Finetime, seemed like an interesting element, up until the way he died.

The ending worked for me, because I do think the Doctor's reaction is true to how the Doctor would react. I just keep thinking of how much better the core themes could've been handled by someone with actual lived experience on the subject matter.

[doccywhomst]

About your last post.

I understand because I too used to throw every bit of 13 criticism into the right wing bin. It is only recently that I started to accept that some criticism of that era were reasonable. It was this video by verilybitchie about the women in Doctor Who that made me do a 180.

I think the insular nature of fandoms and the way the DW fandom is scattered around and formed by VERY different kind of fans only worsen the situation. It’s hard to know how good intentioned someone is when there’s a part of the fandom actively sabotaging the show since 2004.

(referencing this post) it was a video essay that changed my mind as well - i was super resistant going into it, but as i watched, i realized that i didn’t actually object to anything being said, only the idea of something i love being criticized. i felt sick to my stomach because the longer i watched, the more i realized they were right, i couldn’t defend my viewpoint, and i knew i wouldn’t be able to unsee the flaws in thirteen’s writing.

since then, i’ve also pulled my own 180° - i went from not tolerating criticism (because i thought it was all in bad faith) to openly and thoroughly criticizing doctor who, explicitly because i love it. it’s my favorite thing in the world and i shouldn’t have to lower my standards to enjoy it. the flux was what nailed the coffin shut for me, i couldn’t believe how sloppy the plot felt…. it went nowhere and many of its consequences went unresolved.

all of this is to say, i’ll always love thirteen and there’s a home in my heart for her, but honestly, the criticism is valid. she deserved better. i hope jodie works with big finish to make audios worthy of her effort and skill, because i know we all want the best for her! and i would LOVE for thirteen to have many years of terrific audio series :)))

[captainsjack]

i don’t think moffat should be allowed to write christmas specials anymore that was… terrible

[leikeliscomet]

I'm not sure what the point in yelling 'canon doesn't matter' from the hilltops was then proceeding to make several lore-based seasons back to back. The Doctor was already a unique, lone wolf without a family-type character before the Timeless Child. Regeneration was already a way of letting go of the past long before bigeneration turned up. Gallifrey's been gone for a while. S11+ relies on the Time War, The Timeless Child, the regeneration cycle, the Master and old companions but if you critique any of this *you're* the lore obsessed one? Abeg... Like I'm not a s11 fan at all but honestly it did a better job at the 'i have no one' thing Chibnall wanted than s12/13 and s1 already did that too so idk what's so revolutionary and fresh about the show doing what it did before in a different font. "We don't know where the Doctor's from! We don't know their family!"... just like the past 60 years then lol? If lore doesn't matter so bad... why can't we just ignore it? They're a weirdo in a box that's all we ever needed!

[causalityparadoxes]

maybe if rtd had let more guest writers handle the regular episodes, he would have had time to properly script that finale. Send post.

[dandelionjack]

sutekh was a fantastic villain in 1975. sutekh was a compelling and frightening antagonist for one serial. it’s okay that his motivation was just “destroy everything, i hate all living things”because he was only around for one serial before tom baker sealed him in a temporal sarcophagus forever. and it should have stayed that way, with the exception of, maybe, a few big finish excursions, since they love to reanimate the corpses of dead characters.

sutekh is NOT a compelling enough villain to be refitted as the big bad of a nuwho series. “kill everyone now” is the most generic motivation a bad guy can have. “i bring death” ok what else do you bring? do you represent anything? do you have any subtextual value, do you have symbolic meaning beyond “lol, die everyone because i said so, i’m an evil egyptian god”. there’s no substance to him, nothing deeper. a character like the master is practically made of substance, his history and the doctor’s are entwined from the start and that’s what makes him so fascinating as a threat, but even lesser iconic villains — daleks, cybermen, weeping angels, ood, the silence, the great intelligence, the fucking fisher king from before the flood — all have complex and intriguing motives and philosophies of their own. okay, maybe not the angels, but they represent something. they stand in for a concept (in the case of angels, for example, the very meta concept of being glued to your screen, physically unable to look away).

what does sutekh stand in for? he’s just death. he wants all life gone. that’s not interesting, that’s not exciting beyond the scope of one serial or one episode. he’s not nuwho material, he’s definitely not nuwho finale material. you may as well just plop the grim reaper there, scythe and all, go full torchwood (derogatory), instead of embracing the dated, orientalist egyptian imagery russell has insisted on doubling down on. i’m feeling pessimistic. i’d really been hoping for the “stuck-in-a-tv-show” theory to be proven right. how naïve of me.

[intuitive-revelations]

Hmmm....

Thematically i kind of liked that.

But man that plot was... not good.

[badxwolf]

It’s so funny to me that people are freaking out about which characters got killed by Sutekh when Russell hit the reverse button and nobody actually died. Like yeah Pete’s World probably got nuked as well but does it matter??? I stopped feeling anything after Mrs. Flood died bc it was obvious that wasn’t going to last. 99% of what happens in the show makes me think about Rose Tyler but Russell managed to write the one thing that didn’t make me care about what happened to her. I’m almost impressed.