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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 3 months ago

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book 7 chapter 11 part 1 thoughts!

***THIS POST CONTAINS MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR BOOK 7 PART 11 OF THE MAIN STORY!!*** This spans part 192 to part 211, covering Jack and Ruggie’s dreams. You can see my comments on Leona's dream here!

Please note: this is NOT meant to be a summary or a translation; these are only my initial thoughts on the events that roughly unfold. There may be details overlooked or misunderstood in this post, so PLEASE do not use this as a translation.

xbsbdkshwkw AZUL FAINTED WITH HIS EYES OPEN FROM THE FALL… This guy keeps taking the Ls early on in this update cuz he also got reminded that Idia recorded him in his own dream shouting “KRACKEN SHOT” which is very embarrassing.

Silver and Azul are able to change into their school uniforms without Idia’s incantation. Apparently Silver mastered the magic of changing clothes because he was so often oversleeping for class and had to prepare quickly for them. This shocks Sebek, who has yet to master this kind of magic. (Maybe it’s also a consequence of him being a first year?? 😂)

They briefly discuss how Silver looks like a prince when he’s riding his horse; Azul saw him in a Magicam cut of the Equestrian Club. Previously, we knew from Riddle’s Ceremonial Robes vignettes that the brown horse he rides is named Vorpal. Here we get confirmation of Silver and Sebek’s horses—Samson (a white horse, sharing the same name as Prince Phillip’s steed) and Tempest, respectively.

LMAO Idia complains about how athletes get so much attention, meanwhile nerds like him aren’t ever given that or fawned over or called princes. IDiA W3 gET IT… YOU COMPlAIN AbOUT CHADS 😭

They have landed in front of the gates of NRC and run into Jack there. He seems to be rushing to the colosseum…? Let’s follow him!!

OKAY

JACK HOWL YOu’RE oN MY ShiT LiST OTL YOU KNOW Ehat tHIS GUY DREAmed ABOUT???????!!!?!?!!?! It’s the year after their instaloss to Diasomnia in the interdorm tournament (don’t ask me why Malleus and Leona aren’t off at their internships at this point, dream logic I guess???). Dream!Leona has gathered all odds Savanaclaw in the colosseum to train so this year they can take Malleus and beat Diasomnia head-on, no tricks. HE EVEN GiVES A N OPTIMISTIC SpEECH AbOUT THE POWEr oF TEAMWORK TO RALLY EVERYONE… and declares he’ll be the next “king” 💀 Such overwhelming confidence… JSCK DRWAMED Of a DORM LEADER thAt PLAys BY THE RULES AnD IS 💯 ConFidENT IN THEMEKvES…

Grim is so grossed out seeing this version of Leona that he wants to wake Jack up right the fuck now 😭

AzUL YOU ASSHoLE???? He acts all fake surprised about “the incident” that happened at the intetdorm tournament and like bro had no part in instigating that stampede.

They start to formulate a plan to wake Jack up, but are worried about dream!Leona since Leona irl is a very strong mage, the darkness posing as Leona could be even stronger than usual. But at the same time we can’t risk casting a spell that’s too strong ourselves or it might call Malleus’s attention. They suggest to use Azul as a clincher since he would theoretically have access to all the magic he stole irl in the dream. Surely one of those could help?

Jack scores against the defense, Ruggie. While the Savanaclaw students are going over his play, Yuu and friends stroll up (including Idia vis a full body projection). Grim tells Savanaclaw they’re Team Ramshackle here to play them!

Ruggie says there’s no point; their team is made up of weaklings! But then Azul gives his OWN speech about how Octavinelle and Ignihyde are always dead last in magift tournaments and this time they really trained hard because they wanna be better 🥺 and besides, isn’g magift a game of wits and not brute magic/physical strength??? This catches the attention of dream!Leona who agrees to the play. He considers fellow dorm leaders worthy opponents, and also had a bone yo pick with Sebek and Silver. (Also??? Sounds like Ignihyde got their asses beat by the Pomefiore team in this year’s interdorm tournament.)

HEKP THIS mAn HE’S SuFFERINNNNG 💀 Azul is really out of it so he calls for a time out. Idia takes this opportunity to make fun of him again for being tired now when he was the captain of Golden Trident in his own dream. At least Sebek is nice and offers Azul some water.

Sebek messes up and the frisbee goes out of bounds?? WYat THE FuVk dream!Leona goes over and helps Sebek up after he’s fallen… “Oh, so Jack has made a senpai he can truly respect.” “Oh, the REAL Leona wouldn’t do something so noble like that.” GROSS GROSS GROSS GET IT OUTTA HERE 🤢

Oooh, interesting?? Ortho reasons that when you’re excited, you’re more likely to be influenced by emotions when making decisions; they’ll take advantage of the exercise high everyone on to break through to Jack. He and Jack end up flying out to space as they’re squaring off in magift; when Jack realizes how far he has flown up, he’s shocked. Don’t they need oxygen to breathe here?! It’s here that Ortho reveals this is all a dream to him.

Jack is so shocked by the news that he wakes—and then falls out of the sky?! Silver immediately runs to protect everyone. Idia uses the Dream Form Change to forcibly swap Ortho to his Cerberus Gear and Jack to his Dorm Uniform, which help to cushion the blow of their crash landing. Then dream!Leona comes over to check on Jack and decides to bench him.

The darkness tries to deceive Jack, but he actually punches back and refuses to be tricked. bcdbbsksks He cries a little and goes on about how he was so inspired by watching Leona play on TV he’d watch it over and over… only to be disappointed by reality. Jack goes a little overboard though, he starts attacking US too, thinking we’re fakes as well.

Jack quickly comes to see reason and stops trying to deck us. Sebek still seems salty at Savanaclaw for what they tried to pull in book 2 and again reminds Jack of those injustices, saying he won’t forgive them. To his surprise, Jack admits wrongdoing and says it’s only natural some people would still hold grudges and choose to not forgive them. Sebek is so shocked by the fact that honest people like Jack exist in Savanaclaw. Aw… baby’s having his prejudice challenged…

Mentioning this for the Jack lovers: Jack pets Grim on the head and praises him!

LMAo????? Jack grabs Silver’s arm to travel with them and is shocked by how it looks slender but actually you can tell he has trained a ton by feeling it!

They land in Sunrise City in Sunset Savanna. Everyone tells Jack about Dream Form Change, which he says is a spell that looks like it’s from an anime his kid sister watched before. Jack has a had time saying the spell because he finds it embarrassing, but he’s eventually goaded into it (especially by Sebek, who tells him to chat it with his whole damn chest).

Beastman lore!! Apparently beastmen are considered a genus and all beastmen come from Sunset Savanna; over time, they migrated to other parts of the world, especially to some colder locations northward. Jack’s family is included in this, as well as Sebek’s. His grandfather apparently used to live in the wetlands of Sunset Savanna. I guess it just goes to show that no matter how different their individual practices and beliefs… they have common roots.

While they’re admiring the statue of the lion prince in the center of Sunrise City, they notice no hyenas are among the gathered animals. They suggest that maybe the statue was made before the King of Beasts united all animals; the hyenas used to live in their own place called the Land of Shadows.

They review some Sunset Savanna lore, including how difficult it is to unite beastmen of different kinds and how there's a pushback against development due to many beastmen wanting to respect nature. Sometimes the disputes can become violent, and it's all over the news. SHOCKINGLY, Idia has a moment of clarity and realizes that this must be why Leona chose the internship he did at a mining and energy company 😭

Everyone begins to suspect the dream is Leona’s but right then Ruggie rushes by them, declaring that he’s late for school. Jack is surprised that Ruggie is in glasses because in Savanavlaw he would brag about having good eyes.

Ruggie cuts through the market to get to school on time; he seems friendly with the folks and many of them offer him free food. Jack remarks that Ruggie is seen as a hero in his hometown, so maybe this explains the NPCs’ behavior. Apparently he is also an honors student in this world.

Anyway, Ruggie arrives at Ivory Cliff! It seems this school doesn’t exist irl; it’s only in Ruggie’s dream. Most of it is beastment, and over half are hyenas.

Grim watches Ruggie and mobs A and B eating food and leaps in to get some!! (Azul apologizes and lies that Grim is his familiar, lol) Sebek chides Grim for doing this, but then his own stomach growls, giving his own hunger away. He of course denies his hunger—but Ruggie says it’s okay and invites them all to eat!! The local children come to their campus just to have food too. Ivorycliff Academy was built in honor of the three hyenas who served the King of Beasts. They used to be do starved that they could cry, so the school is dedicated to feeding the hungry in the spirit of solidarity.

BRUH 😭 YOu’RE KIDDING ME… In his dream, Ruggie’s dad never left him… He came back for his son with a fortune he made from working. Ruggie also bought a new car for his granny and never has to be hungry again. Jack wonders if it is really right to take away happiness like that, but ultimately he decides he doesn’t want to see his senpai living a false reality.

Ruggie shows them to a school donut stall with all-you-can-eat toppings. He dumps everything onto a single donut and calls it the "Ruggie Special". The owner drops the lore that in the universe of this dream, apparently LEONA built the school.

According to donut lady, Leona graduated last year and came back after graduating to strengthen his country. He has established several schools and even magift teams. Among young people in the Sunset Savanna, Leona is supposedly also more popular than the crown prince.

Ruggie runs off to class and we stay behind to eat. Donut lady turns to darkness and attacks us, so we beat it back.

Everyone thinks it will be hard to wake Ruggie since he has never met Leona in this reality and doesn’t have any memories of NRC, his club activities, etc. There isn’t much for him to emotionally react to.

WHAT THE HECK is this a Mufasa movie reference in Twst 😭 Ruggie and some mobs talk about a sequel (that’s a live action prequel, I think??) about two characters who are enemies but were actually friends in their youth. Or maybe they’re just talking about some other Lion King prequel I’m not aware of???

J kb bajabakan ahaGayatwHAT

Azul tosses coins of different values which attracts Ruggie’s attention. He has the unique ability to tell the value of a coin just from the sound of it, a skill which Azul learned about from observing Ruggie when he worked part-time at the Mostro Lounge.

Anyway, Ruggie tells mobs A and B to go home without him so he can hunt the coins in peace.

Azul carelessly tosses 500 madol (~5 USD) into the fountain. Ruggie wants it so badly he dives in and starts digging around wildly in the water for the coin. AND AZUL JUST KINDA STANDS THER E TAUNTING HIM LIKE, "OoOOoOoOoh you want that coin so badly, Ruggie, your body moved on instinct BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, BE GREEDY, GET THAT COIN" (NOT AN ACTUAL TRANSLATION, but in the spirit of what Azul actually says).

I assume this is what the Ivorycliff Uniform Ruggie groovy depicts... Bro's tripping and having a cosmic experience all because he spotted A COUPLE DOLLARS.

Nooot sure how to feel about this as a narrative device. On one hand, it's funny and definitely demonstrates Ruggie's shamelessness. On the other hand, I can see why some may see it as distasteful or humiliating because Ruggie is already so destitute irl and yet here they are using him scrounging around for a few dollars as comedic bit.

Mobs A and B return to check on him. Ruggie starts obsessing to them about how you can buy extra or fancy food like the shrimp gratin set for 500 madol!! Which confuses the mobs because all the food at Ivorycliff is free.

On instinct, Ruggie starts reciting what I assume is true of NRC: basic buffet foods are free, but extra foods are an extra cost… uniforms are free but if you ruin the first set then you need to pay for extra ones… etc. Ruggie points out that Ivorcliff uniforms are sucky anyway, with a light color like this, even a little bit of dirt stands out! Night Raven College uniforms are black, so it’s so convenient! Wooow, what a callback to book 2 💀 Ruggie complained about the RSA uniforms being hard to clean back then too…

We beat the mobs up~

Ruggie falls ot his knees and has a good little cry 😭 but then he recovers and says he’d better be paid a good hourly wage for all this trouble cnbdjssbjsks He agrees to join us because “Well, I wake up Leona-san every day so this is literally no different than my usual routine” though he also admits his success rate is like 60-70%.

dnensjsbahsjajw RUGGUE’S On MY shIT LIST TOO. HOW daRE HE… Bro says he’s going to wake up OUR king now, that he doesn’t want to follow a false king.. ARE YOU FR 💀 JE’S TAlKING AbOUT zbsvsjabskshFd;,,,/;~~\4!’ansnjahVb,dDDGfgGJjkJSDgabakaojrr a kKNBD gbmmkojnkFSAAQWVNmkoggDFFHvjkkp OTL

PAUSE TO STARE AT RUGGIE'S CRYING FACE BECAUSE WHAT THE HELL I FEEL LIKE I'M STARING AT A KICKED PUPPY

And so…! They’re off!!

This update ends up Ruggie’s dream concluding. Next time (on the 29th), it’s time for us to wake up Leona!!

asdbkhlfbyofqeyg80eg8qegppf OKAY. I WAS NOT EXPECT THIS AMOUNT OF LEONA GLAZING IN THIS UPDATE 🤡 Like, GOOD LORD was there a lot of it... I sort of expected it in Jack's dream since he idolizes Leona, but I was not expecting it to come up in Ruggie's dream too. Even though it doesn't seem like Ruggie has met Leona in the universe of his own dream... the dream world still created lore about how Leona successfully graduated and made the decision to come back and better his country, especially for the destitute hyenas like himself 💀💀💀 WHICH JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT EVERYONE IN LEONA'S DORM RESPECTS HIM AND BELIEVES HE CAN LEAD THEM TO A BRIGHTER FUTURE IN THIS ESSAY I WILL--

ASDBKLHABIYOFAYFQEIBAF STFU ME, THIS UPDATE ISN'T ABOUT HIM.. .. . . . ....... . . . ... . .. . . . . . . LET'S TALK ABOUT JACK AND RUGGIE.

I think this update was one of the funnier ones by far. I'm on Grim's side, it was very unnerving to see a helpful, reliable Leona that plays by the rules and is a good sportsman... but at the same time, it's only to be expected of Jack. Since book 2, he's made it clear he looks up to his dorm leader and wants to be able to put his faith in him. It was nice to see everyone acknowledge how a Leona that doesn't hold back is a genuine threat and how this is the version of him that Jack wants to see realized. It's cute how Jack has this pure want to play with Leona and wants to see him as an idealized leader... Definitely puppy-coded behavior.

Something else I really appreciated about Jack's dream is the logic that went into waking him up. It was really a tag-team effort by Azul and Ortho and, unlike previous updates, I felt like the previous OB boy's presence was a Nothing addition to the cast and didn't contribute much. But Azul uses his smooth talking to convince dream!Leona to play against them, and then Ortho isolates Jack to knock some sense into him. I liked that Ortho, the robot, used cold, hard facts to reason his way to a situation where Jack was more likely to react with strong emotionality. Azul becomes useful again in Ruggie's dream, where he single-handedly wakes the guy up with some spare change he had on hand www

The exchange between Sebek and Jack was great, but I wish it had been extended... It feels like they added it to help with Sebek's character arc of overcoming prejuidice about non-fae, which is fine! But I think it should have been carried over into Ruggie's dream (in that section where they talk about different beastmen in the savanna). Like... it would tie together so well if Sebek had a moment of just "............." in indicate that he's thinking about what was just said, about how different beastmen, despite their differences, all originated in the same place. It would show us that he's slowly realizing, little by little, to accept non-fae.

I think Jack attacking us was an interesting beat to include, especially with all the theories swirling about how the Savanaclaw update will be the one to shake up the formula. Perhaps this is a preview of what's to come in Leona's section??? It proves Ortho's point that you're more likely to think and act with your emotions leading you rather than logic if you're already hyped about something. (In Jack's case, he was still coming off the caution and the high of beating back dream!Ruggie and Leona.)

I felt very similar to Jack in Ruggie's dream, doubting whether or not it was morally right to rip someone away from their happiness--especially considering all that Ruggie has gone through. Little guy was so devastated to find out the truth too... When I think about it, he's gone through so much tragedy in his life. His mom's dead, his dad left him, he grew up destitute and having to scrape by, he had to get LITERAL GARBAGE (depicted in the manga adaptation) to survive some days. It's no wonder why the people in his hometown call him their hero, it's a miracle that he lived this long and managed to get into a prestigious school. I think Ruggie's dream also highlights that he's not JUST greedy because he's greedy. Ruggie clearly cares about other people living well too (something alluded to early in book 4), because why else would Ivorycliffs casually offer free food to everyone and anyone? Why else would he spend tons of cash to buy his grandma stuff? He's thankful for what he has and wants to give back to the community that supported him. The supportive community is also generally reflected in his dream, specifically the market he passes on his way to school.

Ultimately, I do think it's for the best that Ruggie was roused awake because um... HEY, THE WORLD IS GOING TO END. Coming to that conclusion also speaks a lot about Jack's character: above all, he values honesty, even if the truth hurts. Excellent carry-over from book 2 (where he was the whistleblower), honestly.

One thing I wished they had expanded on was the relation of hyenas to other beastmen. It’s implied they are second class citizens, but it’s never clearly stated why that is other than “oh they live in a place that lions didn’t rule”. I would have liked more historical context for that discrimination; it would have helped to flesh out the world.

Overall, liked this update a lore more than the previous ones. I don’t know if I can still say this after the second part comes out (because I’ve usually had the most criticism for how the OB boys’ dreams ate handled), but so far I’m surprised by Jack and Ruggie (in a good way). Fingers crossed for the 29th! 🤞

#twisted wonderland #twst #disney twisted wonderland #disney twst #Leona Kingscholar #Yuu #Silver #Sebek Zigvolt #Azul Ashengrotto #Ruggie Bucchi #Savanaclaw #Grim #notes from the writing raven #book 7 chapter 11 part 1 spoilers #jp spoilers #Jack Howl #Ortho Shroud #Idia Shroud #Ignihyde

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that1geek06 · 6 months ago

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Hi, how are you? Could you write Harry Hook and male reader? The reader is Audrey's brother and super shy, and he meets Harry when the group of VKs went to save Ben.

HOWDY THERE, I'm alright thank you for asking :D I hope your doing good as well, but I can DEFINITELY do this, I'm so happy that my descendents work has been liked by the fandom and its time for the FIRST ROMANTIC FIC YAYYY so I apologize if its not amazing, lmk if there's anything I can do betterr

-SEEN-

Harry Hook x Male!Reader

Warnings: None (lmk if that's wrong)

Audrey Rose, the most popular and recognizable child of Aurora and Phillip. But not many people know or realize that she has a twin brother, Y/N.

He doesn't blame people for not knowing his lineage, he was the complete opposite of his sister. He preferred comfort over style, singularity instead of popularity, and quiet rather than loud. The only one Y/N really talked to was Ben, who would often hang out with the twin when he courted his sister. But even when the VK'S came and he got with Mal, Ben still showed his friendship and even introduced him to the darker group.

And Y/N loved the VK'S.

They just didn't care, and he admired that, without having to talk to much he became close to the small group. They almost took him under their wing and looked out for him. Basically, he never had any issues with Chad once the VK'S started hanging out with him.

So when he heard about Mal running back to the isle and the plan to get her back. He begged to go along. Ben disagreed at first but with some convincing Y/N was allowed to go with.

He had never been so excited for something before, as Evie dressed him and Ben up the clothes felt so nice, the darker tones of red and grey felt suiting, she even made his outfit to be incorporated as a hoodie which he loved.

And then finally they were off.

Ben was very nervous about being there, but with some guidance from Evie, Jay, and Carlos, they got the ways down quite quickly.

They finally made it to Mal's hideout, and Ben went up to talk to her. Y/N waiting for him to return at the bottom of the steps with the others. Though the stomping of his footsteps proved their conversation didn't go to well.

"She's not coming." Ben said annoyed and stomped off through the streets. The others paced and tried to get the attention of Mal. But Y/N ran off to catch up with Ben.

After a small jog he's back at his side, "T-try not to worry to much Ben. Mal's going through a lot, I'm sure she'll come around here soon." He said in a soft tone, trying to comfort the soon to be king.

But Ben just sighs and shakes his head, "I doubt she will, I pushed her to far.."

The two turn a corner, when suddenly they see 2 other shadows, with a low chuckle one spoke. "Well ain't this just perfect, Uma will be please with this catch. A king and a prince, aye now that's somthin' special."

They step into the light, the taller one had a kind smile on his face surprisingly, his eyes set on Ben. "I knew I recognized you Ben! My dad wishes yours would rot in the underworld by the way." Y/N was confused by the guys happiness, and turned to look at the one the spoke earlier, only to find his eyes already on him.

The boy in the red coat smirked, twirling the handheld hook in his hand. "That you did Lad. Now, lets get this crown an' beauty to Uma." And then everything went black. But Y/N wasn't scared, he only thought one thing.

Did that VK really recognize him?

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Y/N slowly opens his eyes, the smell of salt water stinging his nose. He squinted and looked around, eyes adjusting to the light, he tries to move, but he finds himself tied up to a pole.

A light chuckle makes him look up, "Welcome back sleepin' beauty, sorry ya didn't geta kiss like your mum." The boy from earlier smirked, but instead of feeling threatened, Y/N's heart skipped a beat, cheeks turn a light shade of red.

"...w-who are you?" He asks in a small voice, earning a large smile from the other boy. "How rude of me, tha names Harry, and I'm sure this piece o' metal can help ya fill in the rest." He answers, twirling it around once again.

He just nods, putting together he was Captain Hooks son. "Your a quiet one aint ya. Never really talkin' much at those fancy meetings up there." Harry comments, a teasing smirk on his face as he looks him up and down.

Y/N's eyes widened at that, "You've.. noticed me? You know who I am?" He asks in such a quiet voice it was barely a whisper. And he watches as Harry's face falls for a second. He goes to answer when Ben starts to wake up. And that crazed facade comes back as he turns his attention onto the young king.

After a few minutes though the other boy who helped capture him who he learned to be Gil announced Mal and the groups arrival. They had actually brought the wand. But when she pretended to use it on dude, Y/N knew that something wasn't right.

But Uma believed it.

Harry cuts the ropes off of Ben and Y/N, complaining about how his fun was ruined, though it felt almost as if his touched lingered a little longer than normal when he cut the ropes off of Y/N.

Then Mal and Uma trade, and the two royals were back with their group.

Mal starts trying to rush Ben away as Uma attempts to use the wand, and like he suspected, it didn't work. And then a big fight breaks lose.

Y/N fights, but nothing to harm anyone, he couldn't do any such thing. Finally they get space between them and the pirates and are getting ready to make an escape, until-

"BEAUTY!!" Y/N hears Harry yell, he looks back and makes eye contact with him, the pirate smirks, still dripping wet from grabbing his hook out of the water, clothes clinging to his body.

"I always noticed ya!" He yells again, answering Y/N's question from before.

He felt is face flare up and his heart drop as he stare into the other boys eyes. Only for the contact to be broken by Jay pulling him to follow out.

In a daze Y/N followed, mind and heart hooked on the pirate that had noticed him..

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YAYY I loved this sm I hope you do tooo, and anon I hope this makes your day dreams a little easier to imagine <3

-Also, if anyone's interested, I'd be willing to make this a part two?? Tell me if I shouldd-

Lmk if there's anything I can do to improve I welcome any and all help, also, PAUSE. RN. GET A SNACK. Reading is so fun on a full stomach, but anyways, HAVE A GOOD DAY/NIGHT MY GOOBERS, happy readingg 👾

#male x male #x reader #descendants x male reader #descendants x reader #gay #descendants #harry hook #harry hook x reader #harry hook x male reader #imagine

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noh07 · 3 months ago

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list of mixed name ideas (october 29, 2024)

i sorted them into three categories: androgynous, feminine and masculine.

in this list, there's any type of names (mostly for english-speaking people though): typical first names, noun names, mythology names, etc.

if you have more ideas of names for trans folks, writers, etc, just lemme know! (Can also be not-so-cool names for the writers, we need them for the asshole side characters :3)

i update the list every time I have a lot of new name suggestions. this is not the newest version, but you can find it under the tag #updated name list on my profile.

(alphabetical list with 553 mixed names under the cut)

--- androgynous ---

Addie/Eddie

Aki

Alex

Alexis

Alli/Allie/Ally

Ares

Ari

Artemis

Aster

Azure

Bennie/Benny

Beverly

Billie

Blair

Charlie

Chrissy

Crimson

Edie

Eli

Ellori/Ellory

Emerson

Emi/Emmie/Emmy

Evie

Finn

Forest/Forrest

Frances/Francis

Gray/Grey

Hayden

Hunter

Jackie/Jacky

Jamie

Jess

Jessie

Jupiter

Lark

Lenny

Lori/Lorie/Lory

Lou

Louie

Mag

Maggot

Mars

Max

Mercury

Mika

Miko

Mizu

Neptune

Noah

Paris

Ollie

Quinn

Rafa

Reg

Robin

Ronni/Ronnie/Ronny

Saturn

Shilo/Shiloh

Skye

Val

Venus

Vin

Vinny/Vinnie

Wilson

--- feminine ---

Abby

Abigail

Adelaide

Adeline

Aileen/Eileen

Aimee/Amy

Alana

Alena

Alessia

Alexa

Alexia

Alexandra

Alice

Alissa

Alli/Allie/Ally

Alura

Amalia

Amber

Amelia

Amelie

Amity

Angie

Anna

Ann/Anne

Annie

Anastasia

Andrea/Andreea

Antheia

Arabella

Astra

Atlanta

Audrey

Aurora

Azura

Bailey

Becky

Bella

Belle

Bettie/Betty

Beverly

Billie

Brenda

Brie

Candace/Candice

Carla/Karla

Carolina

Caroline

Catherine

Celina/Selena/Selina

Celine/Selene

Charlotte

Christina/Kristina

Christine/Kristine

Claire

Clara/Klara

Chloe/Cloe

Cora/Corah

Daniela/Daniella

Danielle

Dalia/Daliah

Debbie

Debora/Deborah

Delilah

Diana

Dianne

Dora/Dorah

Eburia

Eda

Elena

Eleanor/Elenor

Elisa/Eliza

Elizabeth

Ella

Ember

Emerson

Emery

Emi/Emmie/Emmy

Emilia

Emilie/Emily

Emma

Euphemia

Euphoria

Esme

Esmeralda

Eva

Evie

Evelyn

Felicia

Fenya

Finya

Fia

Fiona

Francisca/Franziska

Freya

Gaia

Georgia

Gina

Ginny/Jeanie

Hanna/Hannah

Harmony

Heather

Hecate

Hera

Hestia

Hope

Iana

Irena

Irene

Iris

Isa

Isabel/Isabelle

Isabela/Isabella

Ivonne/Yvonne

Ivory

Ivy

Izzy

Janice

Jasmin/Jasmine

Jenna

Jenny

Jolene

Julia

Julianne

Julie

Juliet/Juliette

Katarina/Katharina

Kathy/Katy

Lana

Lara/Larah

Laura

Lauren

Laurel

Lena

Leia/Leya

Levina

Levinia

Lia

Liara

Lili/Lilli/Lilly/Lily

Lilian/Lilien

Lilith

Lisa

Livia

Liz

Lizzie/Lizzy

Loanne

Lola

Lorelei

Lori/Lorie/Lory

Louisa/Luisa

Louise/Luise

Luce/Luz

Lucy

Luna

Maggie/Meggie

Meg

Madeline

Maira/Myra

Margaret

Marge

Marla

Marlene

Maria/Mariah

Marie/Mary

Melanie

Melissa

Mellie/Melly

Mia

Michelle

Milly

Mina

Minerva

Minnie

Miriam

Mona

Naira/Nyra

Natalia

Natalie

Natasha

Nellie/Nelly

Nessie

Nina

Nora/Norah

Nori

Oliv/Olive

Olivia

Ollie

Paris

Pascale

Patricia

Paula

Peggy

Penelope/Pinelopy

Penny

Petunia

Philippa

Pia

Polly

Poppy

Ramona

Rebecka

Regina

Robin

Rose

Roxanne

Sara/Sarah

Sofia/Sophia

Sofie/Sophie

Stella

Stephanie/Stephany

Tara/Tarah

Tatiana/Tatyana

Tess

Tessa

Tia

Tiana

Tina

Valerie/Valery

Vanessa

Venus

Veronica

Victoria

Vivian

Viviana

Willow

Yana

Yasmin/Yasmine

Zoe/Zoé/Zoey

--- masculine ---

Aion

Alex

Alexander

Amon

Anthony

Anton

Arcturus

Ares

Ben

Benjamin

Bennie/Benny

Benson

Bill

Billie/Billy

Bob

Bobby

Brendan/Brendon

Brian

Bruno

Calvin

Carl/Karl

Chad

Chase

Chris

Chrissy

Christopher

Conan

Damian

Dan

Daniel

Dave

David

Davon/Devon

Dionysos

Don

Donald

Dorian

Dylan

Elia/Elijah

Elio

Eliot/Elliot/Elliott

Emerson

Emilio

Erion

Evan

Felix

Fred

Freddie/Freddy

George

Gian/Jan

Hannibal

Harald/Harold/Herald/Herold

Ian

Icarus

Jack

Jackie/Jacky

James

Jamie

Jimmy

John

Johnny

Jona/Jonah

Jonas

Jones

Julian/Julien

Julius

Jupiter

Justin

Kevin

Larry

Laurence/Lawrence

Lenny

Leo

Linus

Lori/Lorie/Lory

Louis/Luis

Louie

Lucc/Luke

Lucas/Lukas

Luigi

Marc

Marco

Mario

Mars

Max

Mercury

Michael

Mickey

Mike

Milo

Nathan

Neptune

Nick

Nico/Niko/Nikko

Noah

Oliver

Ollie

Orion

Paris

Pascal

Patrick

Paul

Pete

Peter

Philip/Philipp/Phillip

Raymond

Reg

Reginald

Regulus

Remus

Rob

Robbie/Robby

Robin

Ron

Ronald

Ronni/Ronnie/Ronny

Saturn

Sean/Shawn/Shaun

Sebastian

Sirius

Steve

Steven

Theodore

Tim

Toby

Tom

Tommy

Tony

Valentine

Victor

Wilson

Yan

Zach/Zack

Zeus

If you want me to add meanings, origins, etc., just tell me! ^^

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dorkphenix · 2 years ago

Text

#glamorous #i cannot accommodate you #zane phillips #chad addison

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hannahhook7744 · 8 months ago

Text

Canon & Semi-Canon Character List!;

For @askauradonprep .

LMK if you want me to add kids from other disney media like non-descendants books, sequels, and shows.

This list only includes the next gen kids from descendants (as well as Uliana).

--------------------------------------

Descendants (Mobile Game):

Scarlet.

Carter (Maybe a gender bent version of Scarlet who is dependent on your character's gender or could be a completely separate character).

Note: Diego de Vil was also in this game, if you want a visual on him.

--------------------------------------

Twitter-confirmed:

Elle, daughter of Eric and Ariel.

--------------------------------------

Evie's Wicked Runway:

Mia.

--------------------------------------

Scrapped Characters:

Aziz, son of Aladdin and Jasmine (mentioned in ‘the isle of the lost’ and the d1 script).

Anxelin, daughter of Rapunzel and Eugene Fitzherbert (mentioned somewhere unknown as of now).

Hadie, son of Hades (mentioned in ‘Return to the Isle of the Lost’).

Gigi, daughter of Mother Gothel (Mentioned in an early draft of a d2 script).

--------------------------------------

Concept Art Characters:

Lil Yaz, son of Yzma.

Quinlynn, daughter of the Queen of Hearts (can be seen in 'Good to be Bad'.)

--------------------------------------

Escape from the Isle of the Lost (Book):

Ariana Rose, niece of Aurora and Prince Phillip

Bobby Hood, the son of Robin Hood and Maid Marian.

Derek, the son of Dopey.

Shy, the son of Bashful.

Crabby, the son of Grumpy.

Hap and Cheerful, the sons of Happy.

Snoozy, the son of Sleepy.

Doc II, the son of Doc.

Gesundheit, the son of Sneezy. Nicknamed Gus.

Note: I also remember there being a Sneezy Jr but I can't find proof, so for now I'll just have them here.

--------------------------------------

Players Mentioned on the Tourney Wiki:

Brendan.

Miguel (#44).

Tyrone (#32).

Akio (#42).

William (#12).

Li (#85).

Emir (#26).

Note: Aziz was also mentioned here on the wiki.

--------------------------------------

Kids Named Only in the Movie:

Taylor (Coach Jenkins called for him during one of the tourney scenes).

--------------------------------------

School of Secrets (Book Series):

Opal, the daughter of Mama Odie.

The Tweedledum and Tweedledee cousins, the sons of Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

Yi-min, the daughter of Yao.

Carina Potts, the daughter of Mrs. Potts.

--------------------------------------

School of Secrets (Web Series):

Unnamed Kid/Best Bro who's Great Uncle is Smee.

Dianne Doan (narration) and Andrea Savo (screen appearances) as Secret Blogger–the unidentified girl filming Auradon Prep's students who may or may not be Lonnie.

Mark Daugherty as School Reporter.

Blake Rosier as Sleepy Jr, son of Sleepy.

Bashful Jr, son of Bashful.

Ben Stillwell as Happy student.

Maxwell Chase as Jock.

Miles Tagtmeyer as Reasonable Student.

Maybe Sarah? (As shown in Chad's phone).

Unnamed Girl as Ariel's niece.

--------------------------------------

Carlos‘s Scavenger hunt (Book):

Henry (White haired little boy who is Carlos's biggest fan).

Unnamed Seven Year Old Son of John Darling.

--------------------------------------

Beyond the isle of the lost (Book):

Ace.

Chester, son of the Cheshire Cat.

Katy/Katy, daughter of the smoking caterpillar.

Twee and Dee, twin daughters of Tweedledee.

Dora, daughter of the Dormouse.

Bill, the former cook of the Duchess's nephew.

--------------------------------------

Descendants 1 (Movie):

Mal, the daughter of Maleficent and Hades.

Evie, the daughter of Evil Queen.

Jay, the son of Jafar.

Carlos De Vil, the son of Cruella De Vil.

Ben, the son of Belle and Beast.

Audrey, the daughter of Aurora and Prince Phillip.

Lonnie, the daughter of Fa Mulan and Li Shang.

Chad Charming, the son of Cinderella and Prince Charming.

Jane, the daughter of the Fairy Godmother.

Doug, the son of Dopey and Doug's mother.

--------------------------------------

Rise of Red (Movie):

Red, daughter of the Queen of Hearts.

Chloe Charming, daughter of Cinderella and Prince Charming.

Maddox Hatter, the Mad Hatter's son.

Morgie, the son of Morgana le Fay.

Uliana/Ulyana, the younger sister of Ursula, and the aunt of Uma.

Unnamed Jasladdin/Jaladdin kid who can't be Aziz because the timeline doesn't work.

Zellie/Meadow, daughter of Rapunzel who may actually be Rapunzel (EDITED TO ADD NOTE: rumor has it that the actress who played Zellie/Meadow does not want her photos used, so if you do write Zellie or plan to use her character you may want to fancast/use a background character from the movies as her or avoid using photos all together. Unless it's proven otherwise).

Note: I’ve only included characters who didn’t exist before the movie. So no teenage versions of the adults. No Merlin, , and no Jack of Diamonds (since we see him as an adult only).

--------------------------------------

The Isle of the Lost (Book):

Anthony Tremaine, the son of Anastasia Tremaine.

Beelzebub, the daughter of Lucifer.

Claudine Frollo, the daughter of Claude Frollo.

Clay Clayton, the son of Clayton.

Diego De Vil, the nephew of Cruella De Vil.

Gaston Jr. and Gaston the Third, the twin sons of Gaston.

Ginny Gothel, the daughter of Mother Gothel.

Harry Badun, the son of Horace.

Jace Badun, the son of Jasper.

Jade, the niece of Jafar.

Harriet Hook, the daughter of Captain Hook.

Lagan and Derelict, the children of Flotsam and Jetsam.

LeFou Deux, the son of LeFou.

Madam Mim's granddaughters.

Othello, the son of Iago.

Sammy Smee, the son of Mr. Smee.

The Evil Step-Granddaughters, six or seven unnamed daughters of Drizella Tremaine.

The Sea Witches who may or may not be related to Ursula.

Spotted Hyenas, the children of Shenzi, Benzai, and Ed.

Reza, the son of a former Royal Astronomer of Agrabah.

Yzla, the daughter of Yzma.

--------------------------------------

Descendants Wicked World (Show):

Freddie Facilier, the daughter of Dr. Facilier.

CJ Hook, the daughter of Captain Hook.

Zevon, the son of Yzma.

Jordan, the daughter of the Genie.

Ally, the daughter of Alice.

Ruby, the daughter of Rapunzel and Eugene Fitzherbert.

--------------------------------------

Return to the Isle of the Lost (Book):

Hadie, the son of Hades.

Mad Maddy, the granddaughter of Madam Mim.

Rick Ratcliffe, the son of Governor Ratcliffe.

Hermie Bing, the daughter of The Ringmaster.

Crocodile Descendants, the children of Tick Tock.

Herkie, the son of Hercules and Megara.

Tiger Peony, the daughter of Tiger Lily.

Artie, the son of King Arthur.

Gordon, the son of Grumpy.

Pin, the son of Pinocchio.

--------------------------------------

Rise of the Isle of the Lost (Book):

Stabbington cousins, the children of the Stabbington brothers.

Arabella, the niece of Ariel and Eric

Li Shang Jr., the son of Fa Mulan and Li Shang.

--------------------------------------

Descendants 2 (Movie):

Kristie Sita plays an unnamed blonde pirate girl amputee in purple seen in Uma’s Crew.

Uma, the daughter of Ursula.

Harry Hook, the son of Captain Hook.

Gil, the son of Gaston.

Dizzy Tremaine, the daughter of Drizella Tremaine.

Note: characters of Uma’s crew have been named in her book, but not all of them and there were plenty of other background kids from the movies and stuff that weren't named.

--------------------------------------

Uma’s Wicked Book:

Jonas, member of Uma’s crew.

Gonzo, member of Uma’s crew.

Bonny, member of Uma’s crew.

Desiree, member of Uma’s crew.

--------------------------------------

Descendants 3 (Movie):

Celia Facilier, the daughter of Dr. Facilier.

Squeaky Smee, one of the twin sons of Mr. Smee.

Squirmy Smee, one of the twin sons of Mr. Smee.

--------------------------------------

Characters Who Were Mentioned That I Have Zero Clue Where They Were Mentioned:

Pirate named Maria/Marya.

--------------------------------------

Application Kids:

A kid who's name starts with Do or Da. Might be named Dawn. May be the child of a witch/someone selling something & a builder.

Cozzy/Coco, child of a writer named 'William' and a doctor named 'Martha'.

Hector/Sticks, child of an entertaynor/entertainer named Vivian and Lotso.

Bug, child of a bug eater (mom) and the implied child of Oogie Boogie.

Seen in this post by @leftbehindtorot :

If I missed anyone, let me know. Thank you for the help, @casinotrio1965 .

#descendants #disney descendants #melissa de la cruz #disney #wicked world #descendants au #disney descendants au #descendants lists #etc

90 notes · View notes

batsplat · 10 months ago

Note

Chad reed on always the entourages creating the drama. I cannot believe that is what caused rosquez downfall but also given the level of Vale's celebrity and the way he carried himself, I can totally believe that it was the entourage (iPad stand I'm looking at you) that brought the end

(about reed's 2020 quotes in this) yeahhh I mean the downfall was caused by a whole bunch of factors, not just any one thing... like all great tragic narratives, it feels inevitable from a global perspective and yet thoroughly preventable in its specifics, with loads of points where you think, 'oh, if things had just gone a little bit differently'... there's this tension in how, in the end, maybe it would've always gone wrong, but a lot had to come together for it to go wrong in quite such a spectacular fashion

reed's definitely correctly identified one of the factors - the entourages, and valentino's entourage specifically. though fwiw, I did cut off the article before reed predicted the marc/fabio rivalry was headed a similar way (this was from 2020, obviously before the arm injury):

for better or for worse, fabio has skipped the villain arc to head straight to the depressed frenchie arc

regardless of whether this rift would have happened or not, the idea that marc would have gotten a new appreciation for the situation valentino found himself in is at least an interesting one. though if anything, the rivalry with fabio would have more closely paralleled valentino's with the other aliens (new talent coming through, but with the previously dominant rider still a regular winner). now is the time marc's learning what it feels like to come back from a prolonged absence from being competitive at the highest level - and of course with a new superstar simultaneously making his debut

so yeah, anyway, tragedy, you can point to all sorts of strains and pressures and tension inherent to professional sport that were exacerbated by the personalities involved and the influence of the media and the passage of time etc etc. but never mind all that, let's get back to entourages! I know you mention everybody's favourite b-list shakespeare villain, but I'm going to basically mostly ignore him because it's well-trodden ground. yeah, it does help to have one guy who's whispering poison into your ear for a prolonged stretch of time before showing up at your motorhome doorstep with a bunch of telemetry and a dream. and yeah, there were people in valentino's entourage definitely encouraging this path to doom. but what I'm also interested in is the flip side - why nobody stopped him

I would like to submit into evidence this passage detailing the thoughts of vale's mechanic alex briggs. now briggs in this excerpt blames two groups for how things went down in 2015:

the yamaha side (specifically the press group) for not talking him down from the ledge before the presser

the crew chief and other assorted italians on the team for being too "yessy" and not standing up to him

let's briefly (for a given value of the word) focus on the first one. if you're a random yamaha pr person and you see the valentino rossi run to a press conference (given he was late) with a bunch of papers in his hands (well, he's not actually holding the papers in those gifs, but presumably somebody's got them), it's probably a tough ask to expect you to hold up the valentino rossi and ask him what exactly he's intending to do with those papers. also, is he really going to back off because you, random yamaha pr person, have asked him to please not accuse the competition of sabotage? added context is that some at yamaha were aware of what valentino thought about the race at phillip island (which we'll get to in a sec), but god knows if the pr people did. unless he confided in anyone on the yamaha side what the plan was, a lot of them would have been blindsided too - which does come back to the problem of how big a deal valentino is and how maybe you're a little more cautious about questioning what he's about to do with those papers than you would be with somebody else. it does feel like perhaps a bit too much to expect for them to have launched some last-minute intervention, or to even know what kind of intervention they could have gone for beyond low-level comedy hijinks to stop him from even getting to that room. why did nobody from yamaha place a banana skin in his path

but we do know that at least some in yamaha were aware of valentino's great big phillip island sabotage theory, because lin jarvis has very helpfully told us as much (from the post-sepang media scrum):

Q: Do you think it was a mistake for Valentino to [provoke?] Marc so much on Thursday with a very personal and hard attack? Jarvis: There are always many different ways of addressing different problems - Valentino chose to do it in that way. Perhaps that is what provoked Marc into being quite aggressive on the track. I really don't know, you need to ask Marc not me about that. Every action has a consequence. That's life. Q: And did you know before that Valentino was going to be so aggressive with Marc in the press conference? Did you know before? Did you discuss with Valentino about this decision or you didn't know until it happened? Jarvis: Personally, I was not aware of that. I was aware of Valentino's opinion of the race in Australia, but I was not aware... but I was not aware that he would - Q: Don't you think because Valentino at the end of the day is an employee of Yamaha he should discuss before with you about such an important decision, to attack a rider of another factory in such a heavy way [...]? Jarvis: You can't control every incident, everything that happens and you know, generally we have a very good [...] relation, connection with our riders, we talk to them before about things before, but anyway I think this is something Valentino felt strongly about and it was his decision and that's it.

note the use of the word "personally", which does leave the door open to others within yamaha (outside of valentino's inner circle) knowing what was going to happen. jarvis, unsurprisingly, comes down pretty firmly on the side of 'well what were we supposed to do'. given that jarvis admits he knew valentino's theory and is hardly a stranger to valentino's modus operandi - after all, he was already team boss at the time of another tense press conference in sepang eleven years prior that took place in the wake of valentino accusing a competitor of messing with him - you do have to wonder whether yamaha could not have tried a little harder to stop valentino. but again, accounting for the power of valentino's status and the power of his character, I'm personally unconvinced yamaha could've done much to convince valentino to change his mind

so then: the italians. a little bit of context - briggs started working with crew chief jerry burgess in 1994 and both of them were on mick doohan's team for all of his five 500cc titles. when doohan's injuries forced his retirement, valentino inherited his championship-winning team upon moving up to 500cc. jb was vale's very first crew chief in the premier class, and him as well as briggs have been working with vale since december 1999. understandably, this is a very tightly-knit group. it is one that made the jump to yamaha with valentino - here's just a quick excerpt (also from oxley's valentino rossi: all his races) about briggs' thoughts on that move:

When Valentino decided to defect to Yamaha, he was determined to have his crew go with him. Only one stayed at HRC. "We first got to know about the Yamaha deal in Portugal, I think [September 2003]," Briggs continues. "I wanted to stay with JB, because I hadn't finished learning what I wanted to learn. "I remember a clandestine meeting in the car park at Phillip Island, about salaries and how everything was going to work. It was really exciting. When I very first started working with Honda the whole group was very much a team. Towards the end we felt like it started to become a bit us and them: the engineers and management, then the mechanics and the riders. They'd sort of got too big for their boots - they'd designed this wonderful bike, so it was like it had nothing to do with us. That made it easier to leave.

and also about the move to yamaha, from the 2020 barker biography of valentino:

But with his trusted crew chief Jerry Burgess and most of his other team members from the Honda garage agreeing to defect with him, Rossi had the crew he needed, not only to win but also to enjoy his racing. It was a heartening display of loyalty and something of a risk for all involved. ‘When I announced to the mechanics that I was going with Valentino they said, “I’m coming too,”’ Burgess later explained. ‘Some of those guys were leaving very secure jobs and taking a big gamble.’

the group also survived the move to ducati (obviously a deeply frustrating two years not just for the guy riding the bike) and the move back to yamaha. but then, valencia 2013, valentino announced his decision to fire jb in a press conference organised for the pair of them. his 2013 season had been deeply frustrating - yes, he had gotten a podium in his first race beating both marc and dani, but after that generally speaking he couldn't come close to matching the other aliens when healthy. he was comfortably the fourth best rider that year, scrapping and clawing his way through midfield battles and having to rely on misfortunes befalling the three title contenders to achieve his podiums and his sole victory at assen. he was considering retiring at the end of the 2014 season once his current contract expired, but wanted to try everything he could to see whether he could be competitive again against the world's very best. and so, he made the decision to roll the dice and get himself a new crew chief, the italian silvano galbusera

now I have to say, personally I have a lot of time for this decision (even if it was maybe not... uh, enacted in the most graceful of manners, given how sudden it was). I come from a sports background where a certain ruthlessness in personnel decisions is encouraged and generally praised - if something isn't working, you should have the courage to make a change, even if it's deeply uncomfortable (including on an interpersonal level). also, while it was a sudden departure, it's not like burgess was that keen on sticking around much longer (again from the same oxley book):

Valentino ended his collaboration very suddenly at the end of 2013. Burgess was shocked but not too much, because he already knew that he was coming to the end of his own career. "When it ended for me I'd already been doing it 30-odd years and I'd told Valentino a few weeks earlier that I wasn't going to sign any more multi-year contracts. I was 60 by then, so I'd go year by year. I'd already signed a contract for 2014, but I would've thought if we hadn't had any more success by then that there wasn't much point in continuing. I felt we would win more races but I was more doubtful about championships. "I'd read enough sporting biographies to know that sportsmen change their coaches towards the end of their careers. It can give them a spike in results but it doesn't change the overall story. Looking back, Valentino's career went on longer than I expected. He enjoyed some success but no more championships and that's what you race for. Of course he was in the unique position of being able to get a factory bike until he retired. He was very special and deserved everything he got."

which, look. again, personal bias, but to me it's reasonable to part ways with somebody who doesn't think any more titles are plausible, because at that point it's just somebody who has a very different view on your career than you do and may well not stick around for much longer anyway. also, at the end of the day, jb was wrong! valentino came extremely close to winning another title, and just because he didn't, doesn't change the fact he could have. if it had rained on the 8th of november 2015 in valencia, we might be having a very different conversation. (or if they hadn't changed the bloody qualifying format post-2012.) honestly, if the 2016 and to a lesser extent the 2017 season had gone just a little differently - a working bike in mugello here and an unbroken leg there - he could have been a genuine title threat in two more seasons. in any case, what it does show is that valentino even at the end of 2013 was still as determined as ever, was ready to engage in what was a huge gamble (given how almost all his success had come with the highly decorated jb) on the off chance he might find what it took to win again. this will not have been an easy decision for valentino. here's a write-up of the presser at valencia, that stresses how uncomfortable the occasion was, how surprising a decision it was to jb, but how publicly at least there was a lack of recriminations (which, to be fair, wouldn't be much fun to do in a shared presser):

(you'll note that the phrasing in the presser about athletes attempting to extend their carrers by changing things up is echoed in what he says in that book interview where he adds that it doesn't change the overall story, again suggesting he didn't really believe valentino would be competitive. he also uses the same phrasing in ANOTHER interview that confirms as much, but I think you get the point.) valentino said at the time, "it was a very difficult decision for me because I have a great history with jeremy. he is not just my chief mechanic. he is like part of my family. my father in racing". this is somebody he'd been working with since age 21, somebody who is not only revered within the paddock for his work with several of the sport's greats but is also a man who valentino obviously has a close personal connection to. meeting for the first time when vale snuck into the honda pit to check out the bike he might ride next season, hitting it off immediately, countless rowdy dinners together, parties, jb and another older colleague sitting back when food fights started, watching valentino grow up, working with him throughout all his big manufacturer switches, all his successes and all his failures... as much as anything else, it's evidence of how strong vale's desire to win was, how determined he continued to be, to make this choice at this stage of his career. and jb was open to the idea (at least publicly) that it might end up being a smart call:

the 'dirtiest' part of the whole affair is how it was actually carried out - it's not great form to tell your crew chief the day before you end up doing a press conference together to announce your choice. for whatever it's worth, this is how valentino justified the timeline:

and lastly, which I think is the most key part, is valentino's belief. because at the end of the day, the only reason why he's doing any of this, and the only reason why what was to come was possible at all, is that he himself still thought that he could challenge for another title - as much as that belief had come under strain:

now what this piece also goes on to say is that nobody believes this will work. nobody believes that firing jb will lead to better results. people expect that this is going to lead to his retirement, quite possibly at the end of 2014. it's worth just remembering sometimes how extraordinary valentino's return to the top of the game post-2013 really was, how it went against how we expect a rider's competitive lifecycle to work, went far beyond the longevity exhibited by any top rider before or since - all while going up against riders who are widely believed to be some of the best to ever do it. valentino beat jorge in both 2014 and 2016, and remains one of two people to outscore prime marc marquez over the course of a season. not to engage in too much rossi prop here, but sepang 2015 can't really be understood without all the frustration that led up to it, to this one golden chance, this miracle that everybody had believed to be impossible (sometimes even valentino). this wasn't supposed to be happening. it was happening. and then, so so close to the finish line, valentino could feel it slipping, slipping, slipping away

but of course, we still don't know whether changing crew chiefs is the key factor that made him competitive again. maybe he just needed a bit longer to get back into the swing of things post-ducati disaster. maybe the bikes just started to suit him better. hey, maybe it was that nifty exercise regime he'd engaged in a wee spot of espionage for so that he could pinch it off his teammate. what we can say, however, is that valentino's choice both tells us a lot about his mindset, as well as (to finally bring us back to the actual point of this post) representing a massive shift in his 'entourage'. this is what briggs is referring to in his quote - the italians. the new crew chief. the people who couldn't stand up to valentino. now obviously, as mentioned above briggs had worked with jb for the better part of twenty years and can hardly be considered a neutral party. here were briggs' feelings on the matter (yeah it's from the same oxley book again, I got it new for eighteen quid which is a very generous price, would recommend):

When JB was out at the end of 2013 it was like losing my mechanic dad. I remember being in the garage when we found out about it. Then they arranged a kind of farewell, a kind of hodgepodge farewell. It was terrible, I didn't like any of it. I was just hiding behind one of the bikes in the garage, crying, going, what's going on here? It didn't seem right to me. I think maybe Valentino thought he would get faster again sooner, but I think it took at least a year to get the taste of the Ducati out of his mouth. I think if he'd stayed with JB we would've won the championship in 2015.

which. look. we don't have time to unpack all that. but. the point is that obviously briggs wasn't exactly a massive fan of the change within valentino's team, and his comments about the 2015 season do have to be read with that in mind. as to whether vale really would have done better in 2015 with jb at his side, your guess is as good as mine. all that being said, a part of me wonders how much losing that grounding presence enabled valentino's late-2015 spiral. maybe not in terms of talking valentino out of the great big fluctuating lap times treachery theory - to state the obvious, valentino got himself involved in plenty of drama during jb's time as a crew chief. jb himself occasionally helped add fuel to the fire in those feuds, like his infamous comment about how he would be able to fix the ducati's issues in 80 seconds that casey still brings up every three business days (the comments were poorly phrased but also somewhat taken out of context, in that jb was talking about a specific set-up problem). he's generally been pretty happy to be forthright about valentino's rivals, for instance this about casey:

My feeling at the time was that Casey probably only had one game plan, and having watched Casey over the years, he doesn't have a plan B. If it doesn't go his way from the outset, it's probably one of the weaknesses that he had through the youth that he had, through the lack of experience that he had. That's not a criticism of him per se, he was still only 22 at the time.

(this is about laguna seca 2008 and how he helped valentino win that race, including in plotting out vale's rather ruthless tactics - which casey was of course not exactly a fan of.) or these. uh. harsh comments about dani from spring 2010:

Q: Is that atmosphere or track knowledge? Is it like the Spanish finding something extra at the racetracks in Spain? JB: Well, therein we show the weakness, don't we? If you can get up on that weekend, on the technical racetracks of Spain, why can't you get up on the technical racetracks like Australia, where the Italians do? Lorenzo is a guy who will and does. Stoner has been able to get up on tracks all over the world. Unfortunately, Dani Pedrosa's into his 6th year in MotoGP, and he's won 8 races, Jorge Lorenzo's two months into his 3rd and he's won 6. It's night and day between those two, is the way I see it. Dani's an extremely fast rider, but a shockingly poor racer. Q: Were you surprised at Jerez [2010] when Pedrosa fought back when Lorenzo passed him? JB: When did Dani fight back? With two laps to go, and he didn't even get close enough to try to come back. Dani has never been a fighter in races, he's a lovely kid, don't get me wrong, but you can see that Lorenzo, having Pedrosa in front of him, it was never going to be the way he was going to finish that race. He was going to finish on the ground or he was going to finish in front of Pedrosa. That's the sort of race that we want, we had that with Biaggi and Valentino, and from history with Schwantz and Rainey. All the good riders have always had somebody they have had to put the target on the back of. It was Doohan and Gardner, and Doohan won that battle hands down, and I think Jorge Lorenzo's going to win this battle [with Pedrosa] hands down.

kind of a dick! so his attitude to valentino being valentino has generally been a) well having enemies is good, actually, with an added slice of b) good luck to his enemies :) - see also this quote (from the barker biography) in the context of the gibernau rivalry:

And that made Rossi even more dangerous, as Jerry Burgess pointed out: ‘Valentino is the sort of rider I wouldn’t want to get angry. He can take you apart on the track.’

so yes, jb is also perfectly brutal in his own right, as you presumably have to be to work alongside valentino so closely for so long. he is, however, also somebody valentino has a massive amount of respect for, somebody who helped turn him into a legend and is responsible for a lot of vale's success - not least, of course, in the pivotal move to yamaha. he was replaced by a man of a far far lesser stature in the sport, one who presumably would have been grateful to valentino for the biggest job he was ever going to get. if briggs is right and there was a shift in valentino in 2015, surrounded as he was by italians (derogatory) who could not stand up to him, who allowed valentino to insist on war and peace on the pit boards, to focus more and more on things that had nothing to do with riding... it would be going a little too far to say that valentino was missing an adult in the room given he was, in fact, in his thirties and should have been capable of being that adult. and who knows what jb would have said or thought or done about the great big childhood hero deception theory. but sepang 2015 was the culmination of a lot of things, including a pressure cooker of a season that grew more and more tense and put more and more stress on everyone involved - perhaps for none more so than valentino. maybe, just maybe, if he'd had somebody around him with fifteen years of experience in handling him, who could have just occasionally told him to knock it off, to concentrate on the racing, to keep things simple (always jb's defining philosophy), to maybe not get so wrapped up in the great big spanish collusion theory...

or maybe it wouldn't have mattered! maybe we're getting cause and effect all wrong here; maybe valentino was deliberately fashioning his entourage into one that was only going to give him positive feedback. maybe he would have just stopped listening to jb, maybe the very decision to fire jb makes it clear he was no longer interested in what jb had to say. it's a tragedy, after all! maybe it was always going to go like this. maybe it was always going to end like this

speaking of entourages, marc's manager played a bit of a cameo role in fanning the flames just a little further (article from marca, 26/10/2015):

alzamora obviously will be somebody valentino is familiar with, having raced him in 125cc and also having just coexisted in the paddock over the years. valentino could of course be lying, but idk, why would he? he's already made his case by this point, and what if alzamora were to contradict him? if it's true and this conversation did happen, you do have to say it's a spectacularly unhelpful intervention from alzamora. even if marc was mad at valentino, why the hell are you telling valentino this AFTER sepang 2015? what's the plan here buddy

^ 1999 world champions: alzamora in 125cc, vale in 250cc and alex criville in 500cc. people think motogp lore is complicated but if you know like, five guys, you're set for about twenty years of drama

which does get to the heart of the matter - a lot of these people have big egos and their own agendas and they love to run their mouths. they like talking a big game and getting involved in things they really shouldn't be getting involved in. is reed right that these people in the riders' entourages 'created the drama'? well, no, I think the two men at the centre of this particular tragedy were plenty capable of doing that themselves. nevertheless, you can point to how professional sports (and motogp in particular) forces you to rely heavily on a small group of people to keep you sane at the centre of the storm, and the risks that can emerge when that small group collectively unmoors itself from reality. you can point to the perils of fame, both in making your reliance on your inner circle so unnegotiable as well as in providing you with the status and power and ego to ignore anyone who might wish to change your mind. you can point to specific figures in this story who managed to incite the conflict between the two of them, as well as how the pressure cooker competitive environment they were operating within helped set up the ultimate catastrophe. you can point to how valentino lacked anyone with the power to stop him - both in the direct sense of forcing him to reconsider and the indirect sense of commanding his respect enough to make him see sense. maybe, just like in 2004, valentino had simply been "looking for an excuse" and he was always headed down this path. or maybe if somebody had just held him back a little that year, kept him focused on his riding, maybe if the right person had intervened at the right time...

maybe, maybe, maybe. that's why it's a tragedy

#brr brr #//it #//#i get the sense he's unpopular on here but EYE will miss lin jarvis. i think he's funny sorry. him and his certifiably insane employees #i loveeee that media scrum love his very dry lil summary of events acting like we're not so so far down the rabbit hole #batsplat responds #//et

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