#Blackfyre supporters

[trogthefrog]

I think that the Fossoways (or more specifically Red Apple Fossoways) became Blackfyre supporters during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion and that’s how the Green Apple Fossoways got a castle.

Firstly, some evidence as to why they *became* Blackfyres. The Fossoway heir Raymun and his cousin Steffon were welcome at the Ashford Tourney, a tournament where Targaryen princes were the main feature making it a loyalist tourney. And while there were Blackfyre supporters there (Brackens, Hightowers.) the majority of present houses were loyalists or houses of unknown affiliation during the 1st rebellion. Extrapolating from that the Fossoways likely had loyalist affiliation during the 1st or weren’t on bad terms at least.

So what’s the evidence of these apples *going bad* so to speak? When we see of the Fossoways in ACOK they have two branches, each with their own castle. House Fossoway of Cider Hall (red apple) and House Fossoway of New Barrel (green apple). Wait how did the greens get that castle?

We know Raymun Fossoway was the founder of the green apple branch. So, that brings the question: how did Raymun (or his descendants) get that castle? It’s possible that he built it. After all it’s called *New* Barrel. But, we don’t hear about many castle constructions in asoiaf. He could’ve gotten it from another house? But why’s it called New Barrel? There aren’t any castle renamings in asoiaf. But hey… that name sounds like a Fossoway name (Maybe to store all the Cider made at Cider hall). And we also know that lords can have multiple castles (the Peakes!). Thus I think that New Barrel was a Red Apple Fossoway castle alongside Cider Hall, and that Raymun got it.

How to lose a castle.

In the Hedge Knight Steffon, the Fossoway heir, is an ambitious and not so honorable knight who sided against Dunk in the trial by seven for personal gain. By contrast Raymun sides with Dunk and founds the Green apple Fossoways. I think that when Steffon became the new Fossoway Lord he sided with the Blackfyres for personal gain. Either during the Third rebellion (more likely) or the Fourth Rebellion (less likely). And in doing so, lost one of his family castles to Steffon (an ally Dunk and Egg): New Barrel. My theory rests on this, how do people get castles? Rewards from the crown (like how House Foote got Nightsong). And how do people lose castles? Rebelling against it (Ex. Riverrun, Nightsong etc.). Ultimately, the same question is explicitly asked in the Mystery Knight about Gormon Peake:

“"How do you lose two castles?"

"You fight for the Black Dragon, ser."”

So, how did the Red Apple Fossoways lose a Castle? They fought for the Black Dragon.

[melodymidway]

Jaehaerys: *chooses Baelon over Rhaenys despite the law saying that a niece inherits before an uncle*

Fandom: She was usurped! Rhaenys should have been queen!

Viserys: *chooses Rhaenyra over Aegon despite the law saying that a son inherits before a daughter*

Fandom: He has no right to the throne! Usurper!

[rynnthefangirl]

Thinking about Rhaenyra Targaryen's faction being the Blacks, and her son Aegon III always wearing black in honor of her, and his daughter Daena always wearing black to emulate her father, and her sister Elaena wearing black to emulate her older sister, and Daena's son Daemon bearing his great grandfather's name and becoming the Black Dragon, founder of House Blackfyre which will continue on for generations, eventually surviving only through the female line—

[allyriadayne]

finished the sworn sword dunk n egg book 2! some thots/livereading about maekar, the blackfyre rebellion and tensions between trueborn and bastards:

interesting that egg mentions bloodraven also being in the council during daeron's reign. probably another favor like giving him dark sister to keep brynden to his side. he could not afford to alienate more of his half siblings. brynden then continues this same 'protocol' after he becomes hand, probably giving high ranking roles to the other formerly bastard siblings (gwenys and mya hive riseeee). and of course, obviously he would want to surround himself with people loyal to him.

also interesting to note a sort of "rivalry" between baelor and brynden. If he had been king I don't think he would've named brynden as a hand like his brothers. egg also mentions that maekar (no more maekar wisdoms please) believes the septons about bastard's distrustful nature, wonder if baelor believed it too.

this is really funny. when baelor was alive maekar was a loser. now with aerys, maekar is winning except he can't stand up to bloodraven. he won against rhaegel but he's still the fourth son. nobody cares about maekar in universe but i know he's constantly like "and I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for my alive brothers!"

maekar oh my god shut the fuck up. he's too scared to complain about aerys because of bloodraven the way he did about baelor when he was alive. at least maekar can say he has children, he's winning for the bare minimum

GIRL I know. so baelor dies and suddenly maekar is NOT the wisest bestest strongest prince? why did he kill him anyway

I love egg defending his dad but he's also a victim of maekar's inferiority complex. save him. I'm not saying maekar wasn't a good battle commander but saying that he's the best now that baelor is dead just screams little brotherism and also just something that he has probably said out loud.

imagine if you were good but not great and your enemy was also your favorite brother whom you killed and was forever remembered as the best king westeros would never have. and you still were a fourth son. I would kill myself. and maekar's sigil is FOUR dragons. one more than baelor's. of course.

now onto serious matters. the sword /is/ the kingdom, and daeron knew it. it's why he gave dark sister to brynden as a countermeasure even when brynden was /not/ a swordsman either. he had to do something to lessen aegon's mistake

Aegon did not give daemon the crown because daeron i lost it lol but if he had it..... the question of the blackfyre rebellion is down to the same one as the dance: which has more weight, the king's word or tradition?

[sirius-lives]

my favourite unintended consequence from the dance of the dragons is the fact that, had rhaenyra's claim succeeded and the faegon theory is correct, young griff should be the (afawk) rightful heir to the iron throne.

[visenyaism]

not team black or team green but some secret other third thing (came out of finishing fire and blood supporting house peake)

[buildoblivionthenwewilltalk]

a jon snow and some hypothetical!jon snows

Lord Commander! Jon

King in the North! Jon

Prince!Jon

[jonquilspool]

criston cole got saint sebastian-ed this, criston cole got saint sebastian-ed that. fine okay sure. but if you don't think osgrey or butterwell had a hidden mural of daemon blackfyre on the redgrass field looking like this:

idk what to tell you bc they so did

[kazz-brekker]

having thoughts about the folk song “queen eleanor’s confession” and naerys targaryen re: false stories of queens accused of committing adultery with a knight they have a close relationship and then bearing an illegitimate son…

[addamvelaryon]

I did not take you for a Blackfyre supporter

I don’t support them. No way! 🚫

I just like to be realistic about the writing choices GRRM may make in the Blackfyre Rebellion.

[hed184]

Never let team Black stans and Targ fanboys gaslight you to believe that house Hightower is an enemy of house Targaryen:

1) Before the conquest, Aegon and Visenya visited the Oldtown and spent time at the Citadel.

2) The Hightowers did not march to the Field of Fire, and surrendered without a fight.

3) Aegon's reign officially began in Oldtown after he was anointed and crowned by the High Septon (who was a Hightower) in the Starry Sept, and was celebrated by the people of the city as he rode over the city on Balerion.

4) House Hightower was one of the few houses that helped the Targaryens in the First Dornish War.

5) Aegon agreed to betroth his son Maegor to Ceryse Hightower when Ceryse's uncle suggested that Maegor should be wed to his niece, and look what F&B has to say about Maegor and Ceryse: "Maegor boasted to having consummated the marriage a dozen times the night of the wedding, and those who had seen the bedding agreed that Maegor was a lusty husband."

6) Maegor recognized Ceryse as the official Queen of Westeros, even though he had two more wives, and gave all of her lands and titles back to her.

7) When Rhaena Targaryen fled from Maegor, he sent a rider to Oldtown commanding Lord Hightower to behead Rhaella (who was training to become a Septa) as punishment for her mother's betrayal. Lord Hightower refused, and imprisoned the messenger instead.

8) Alicent fetched old Jaehaerys' meals, helped him wash and dress, and read to him. On her deathbed, she said: "I want to see my sons again, and Helaena, my sweet girl. Oh... and King Jaehaerys. I will read to him, as i did when i was little. He used to say i had a lovely voice." She didn't mention her father or her brother, but she mentioned Jaehaerys. That shows how much she loved him.

9) Rhaena Targaryen (Daemon's daughter) married Garmund Hightower, and had six daughters by him. As one of the few remaining heirs to the iron throne and the sister of the King, she had no reason to marry a third son and have not one, not two, but six daughters by him if she didn't love him.

10) They remained loyal to the Targaryens during the Robert's Rebellion.

11) Unlike Jaime Lannister and Barristan Selmy, Gerold Hightower remained loyal to Rhaegar till his last breath. He refused several opportunities to leave unharmed, and eventually died while he was defending Rhaegar's son.

12) Daenaerys thinks house Hightower is among the houses that will help her take back the iron throne. She assumes correctly because the Hightowers believe in a prophecy that says Oldtown would burn and its monuments would be cast down if they opposed the "Blood of the Dragon." That's why they gave full support to neither side during the First Blackfyre Rebellion, keeping a foot in both Targaryen and Blackfyre camps.

[the-daily-dreamer]

The targaryen ruled 130 years without dragons. And the most capable kings were all targaryen. After them it was a decline for the throne. Robert, joffrey, tommen, cercei were all sith ruler .

I see targ stans are investing in high quality air to fill their heads lol

But anyways. “The most capable kings were all targaryens”. You know who else were targaryens? The worst rulers of Westeros. Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, and Tommen aren’t even close to the worst kings and queen to rule. And bringing them up as evidence to show that the targaryens are good is so disingenuous.

Maegor the Cruel, Aegon the Unworthy, The Mad King Aerys, Rhaenyra (yes, I know that’s controversial), and Daenerys (yes, I know that’s even more controversial) are all far FAR worse than anyone you mentioned.

Maegor killed his wife and her entire family. He was a usurper (apparently it’s good when the targs you like do it lol), a kinslayer (also a thing only good when it’s targs you like doing it), raped and tortured many people, wiped out entire houses, killed any and everyone that he saw in any way as deserving, and created a huge war with the faith of the seven.

Aegon the unworthy was corrupt and lazy and legitimized his bastards leading to the blackfyre rebellions that led to endless bloodshed for 5 generations.

Aerys was so bad he had a rebellion staged against him that ended his family dynasty. He burned fathers and sons together. He tortured people and burned them alive. He abused and raped his wife when he would burn people alive. He wanted to kill the entire city of kings landing.

Rhaenyra (who like it or not went down in history as one of the worst rulers) known as maegor with teats taxed her people to starvation. She had daily executions. She had knights inquisitors hunt down and punish people.

Daenerys burnt down kings landing, was complicit in the rape and enslavement of hundreds, ruined city economies so badly slavery was a better option, then profited from said slavery, abandoned the people she conquered (no doubt ensuring they will be enslaved much more harshly after supporting her), raped a “free” slave that she admits still acted like a slave because that’s all she knew, oh yeah and again, SHE BURNT DOWN KINGS LANDING. And this is after the people you listed.

And this isn’t including non Targaryen rulers that ruined lives like the blackfyres. Or rulers that are bad but weirdly beloved like Aegon I who basically conquered people by threatening to kill them and everyone they loved, subjugating a country for hundreds of years.

The best rulers I admit were Targaryens. But that’s because they were the only rulers save for 4 people. Of those four, two were bad and two were incompetent. Not nearly the sadistic “mad” people I described above. And funnily enough, as soon as a Targaryen came back to power…things got worse again. Funny how that is.

Oh and by the way. Going with the histories of Westeros. Guess who is among the best rulers according to small folk Aegon II and Alicent. Seethe :)

[rynnthefangirl]

Daemon Blackfyre wearing Aegon III’s three headed dragon necklace is so important to me🖤

[daenerys-stormborn]

TARGARYEN WEEK Day 6: Favorite Family Dynamic - THE GREAT BASTARDS

While on his deathbed, Aegon legitimized his bastards and placed them in his line of succession after his firstborn, Daeron II.

Daemon Blackfyre  

Daemon I Blackfyre, born Daemon Waters, was the bastard son of Princess Daena Targaryen and King Aegon IV Targaryen. Daemon when denied Princess Daenerys he rose up and  swayed half the kingdom to support his claim to the Iron Throne against King Daeron II in a war called the Blackfyre Rebellion. He was the first and greatest of the Blackfyre Pretenders.   

Aegor 'Bittersteel' Rivers  

Ser Aegor Rivers, often called Bittersteel, was a renowned knight. In the First Blackfyre Rebellion, Aegor sided with Daemon against King Daeron II.  Bittersteel fled Westeros after Daemon’s death at the end of the rebellion to the Free City of Tyrosh.  Aegor founded the Golden Company, a famous mercenary organization, to stop the loss of support for the Blackfyres.  

Brynden 'Bloodraven' Rivers  

Lord Brynden Rivers, called “Lord Bloodraven”. Brynden was a Targaryen loyalist during the Blackfyre Rebellions, the Hand of Aerys I and Maekar I Targaryen, and Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. Shiera Seastar, another bastard of Aegon IV, was his mistress. His half-brother Aegor “Bittersteel” Rivers desired Shiera also, which served in increasing the enmity between the two. Bloodraven was thought to be a sorcerer. He disappeared while ranging beyond the Wall in 252 AC. He is discovered to be The Three-Eyed Raven by Bran Stark.  

Shiera Seastar  

Shiera Seastar was the last of the Great Bastards of King Aegon IV Targaryen.  Shiera never married, but took many lovers, and numerous duels were fought for her favor. Her half-brother Brynden Rivers repeatedly proposed marriage to her. Although she refused to marry him, she did share her bed with him.Her other half-brother Bittersteel, was said to have also desired her, which only served to increase the hatred between Bloodraven and Bittersteel. There were rumors that she bathed in the blood of maidens to retain her beauty.  

[atopvisenyashill]

Had some fun thoughts about Aegon’s sons while I was re-reading. This is the passage:

At the feast afterward, King Aenys compounded his misjudgment by granting the title Prince of Dragonstone to his presumptive heir, Prince Aegon. A hush fell over the hall at those words, for all present knew that title had hitherto belonged to Prince Maegor. At the high table, Queen Visenya rose and stalked from the hall without the king’s leave. That night she mounted Vhagar and returned to Dragonstone, and it is written that when her dragon passed before the moon, that orb turned as red as blood.

It’s kind of funny to me because Aenys is doing something normal - he’s just naming his oldest son as his heir (and also pointedly bypassing Rhaena as heir but that’s also incredibly normal behavior bc Westeros and Earth are a patriarchal hellscape).

But he always does shit like this. Every major decision Aenys makes is the one he’s “supposed” to make, almost like he’s following a script. The patriarch must have heirs, must make proper dynastic matches for his heirs, must support and defend his heir’s claim so the transition between their rules is smooth. He wants to live up to the legacies of both Aegon and Rhaenys, be decisive and strong but kind and charming as well, and he freezes right in the middle of the two into something obnoxious and indecisive.

So he takes the title “prince of dragonstone” a title created for Maegor by the lords and people and hands it to his son for funsies. He wants the titles and signals of legitimacy to belong to only him because he’s the first born so of course it belongs to him; that’s not just arrogance, that’s law. At the same time, “prince of dragonstone” was not an official title that Aegon gave Maegor as a sign of legitimacy, the way he tried to give Aenys blackfyre. See here:

Prince Maegor remained with his mother, sitting by her side when she held court. Queen Visenya and King Aegon were oft apart in those years. When he was not on a royal progress, Aegon would return to King’s Landing and the Aegonfort, whilst Visenya and her son remained on Dragonstone. For this reason, lords and commons alike began to refer to Maegor as the Prince of Dragonstone.

They call him that because he grows up there at his mother’s side instead of at his father’s with Aenys. And then not only does Aegon back down from fighting the Faith by betrothing Maegor to a Hightower, he is essentially rejecting this sign of legitimacy for Maegor by refusing to go to bat for an incestuous marriage that would make Maegor and Rhaena his heirs together. Maegor may have some symbols of legitimacy but they are not given to him by Aegon - he doesn't get Blackfyre or Balerion until after Aegon dies. He barely sees his father. He can't even give his father grandchildren. But he has this one thing, this title given to him by the lords and commoners of Dragonstone, the seat that once belonged to his father. And then Aenys takes that away. It’s his right! He’s the oldest son! Why is Visenya turning the moon weird colors when she knows her son is the younger!

But of course, her son is the younger because Visenya and Aegon couldn’t stand each other, and by the time they got around to really attempting to fuck, Visenya was already a bit old. And Visenya is the oldest, maybe the least loved wife, but the original, the first wife. It doesn’t matter; Rhaenys had a baby first, Rhaenys is the one the line now descends from. And her son can’t even leave Visenya’s son a silly little title given as a nickname, a nickname he earned for being Visenya’s son, always on Dragonstone with his mother and never at King’s Landing. But Aenys stubbornly ignores this because this is how he operates. They’re the ones not following the script!

It’s exactly what he does when it comes to Rhaena and Aegon marrying; it never occurs to him that people will be angry because he has the right. Never mind the High Septon making it clear he wouldn’t approve. Never mind it’ll piss off Visenya and Maegor, the only competent generals with dragons that he has bc his kids aren’t grown.

The storm that greeted the king’s announcement took them all by surprise, though the warning signs had been plain enough for those with the wit to read them. The Faith had condoned, or at the very least ignored, the marriage of the Conqueror and his sisters, but it was not willing to do the same for their grandchildren.

There’s soooo much going on here in why Aenys acts like this. It’s not just the general royal/noble “i have the castle and the swords i do what i want” but a very specific Targaryen “i have the dragons i do what i want” and an even more specific “i have the divine right i do what i want.”

He is Aegon the Conquerer’s first born son and he can do what he wants. It’s in the script his father followed when Aegon used The Divine Right Of Dragons to subjugate most of Westeros. He completely convinced himself that he is allowed to run roughshod over social norms, politics, religion, his own family’s feelings, because he is Aegon’s son.

And Maegor takes the exact opposite approach. He is Aegon the Conqueror’s second born son of his least favorite wife and he will always have to conquer like his father to prove he is worthy of doing what he wants.

It is in effect the same problem basically every Targaryen past Aegon has had. They see him (and Rhaenys and Visenya) just as godly as the people of Westeros do. They are all demi gods aspiring to the immortality of the Conqueror while refusing to see the bigger picture surrounding him which is that Aegon didn’t do whatever he wanted and he was miserable for large portions of his life which is why he was so effective as King! He’s an annoying bitch but he’s an annoying bitch who realized that the throne was not there to make him happy!! It is only when Aenys and Alyssa give him Rhaena, and a new family to love, that Aegon lives happily again.

Basically every Targaryen ruler misses some aspect of this. They focus on how he conquered with dragons so they use extreme force and forget how often he conceded, how smartly he chose to sort his spoils of war, and put their yes men in powerful positions only to watch those dudes get eaten alive by their post. Or they focus on the concessions, on the miracle of his negotiations, the myth making around Aegon the Dragon, and do reckless, foolish shit without a thought for consequence because They Are The Blood Of The Dragon.

The Dragon was a man and not a god! He died of a stroke! Not of dragon fire or a thunderbolt sent from the gods themselves. Ultimately, what was special was his ability to know when to fight and when to negotiate and even that wasn’t always easy for him, see: the dragon’s wroth. But every Targaryen after him believes in The Dragon, The God, and makes a claim at his godhood, even his own sons. And all of them fall short because of their belief in his godhood, even his own sons.

[visenyaism]

Bloodraven showing up to the Night's Watch in 233 AC about to make it his bitch: I sure hope there's Blackfyre supporters here. It would be such a shame if something were to happen to them

by the time bloodraven showed up at the wall the nights watch had to be like 30% blackfyre supporters he personally had sent there and like 70% people who committed petty crimes under the strain of the poverty that his tenure as hand of the king enforced on the realm howd he swing that