#Amsha and Richard's A++ parenting

[walkingstackofbooks]

Too many DBIP feelings! #1

I rewatched DBIP yesterday and a few things really struck me that either hadn't before or that I'd forgotten. This then became far longer a post than I'd imagined, so I've ended up splitting it into 5 different (much shorter!) ones. Part 2: Richard's arguing tactics Part 3: Amsha's manipulations Part 4: Their 'apologies' Part 5: Their disregard for Julian's wants

Part 1: Richard's insecurity over Julian's enhancements

Over time, I've come to assume that this was more in my head than in canon. But not, it's right there on the screen and it makes me furious. A long time ago, I mused that Julian's image of himself as "unnatural" might have come from the unknowing, offhand comments of playground bullies, but actually... from these conversations, I think Richard himself could well have described Julian's intelligence as "unnatural" during his childhood.

"We're not as bright as he is. We don't have your gifted intellect so we can't see the perfectly obvious." "You're so smart. You know so much that you can stand there and judge us. But you're still not smart enough to see that we saved you from a lifetime of remedial education and underachievement!"

He just cannot stand Julian being able to hold his own in an argument. His own intelligence is such a point of pride that he cannot allow his son to be smarter than him, despite him literally desigining Julian that way. He claims that genetic enhancements are nothing to be ashamed of - that, if anything Julian's "a little more" human for them - yet he's constantly putting Julian down for using his intellet in any way that Richard disagrees with. ("You could've done research back on Earth. I told you that five years ago." AS THOUGH JULIAN DIDN'T KNOW THAT.)

[youngpettyqueen]

truly a crime we didnt get to see more of Miles' reaction to Julian being augmented because I think he should've punched Richard Bashir in the face

[cucumbermoon]

Star Trek is awesome for exploring all the ways that people can be bad parents. I don’t say that facetiously; I mean it. There are a lot of ways to screw up as a parent, even when you have the highest hopes and the best intentions, and Star Trek explores that topic with depth and finesse.

I can not stress enough that in Star Trek, Amanda Grayson being an incredibly loving wife AND shitty parent is a feature, not a bug. She loves Sarek with her whole heart. And as much as she loves Spock, every single time she has to choose between them, she'll back Sarek. Spock grew up knowing his mom loved him, but that she also did not understand him and would never have his back.

Before people in the mainstream even had the vocabulary to describe what they were seeing, they understood on a gut level that Spock was a neurodivergent, mixed race adult son of two incredibly charismatic and successful parents.

There are so many layers of relatability here.

A surprising lot of people in very loving and devoted marriages aren't great parents. An unsurprising lot of powerful people with prestigious careers also aren't great parents.

Folks who grew up with parents who were great at their jobs and devoted to one another but who just couldn't relate to or understand their kids could see themselves in Spock. Moreover, he demonstrated that if they took a path radically different from what their parents wanted, they could become incredibly successful and even well liked in a whole different sphere.

Most of all, for folks who could see how much their parents adored one another but never felt like that love extended to them, there is something profound in the way Kirk looks at Spock like he hangs the stars in the sky. He's a source of hope that even if you grew up as your family's ugly duckling, if you get out from under their influence you can find someone who will perceive you as a swan.

[bijoumikhawal]

I am #projecting but Amsha and Richard are both exactly the kind of parents to tell their kids shit like "never write anything down you don't want seen by a judge" and to have like. Extended conversations about that nature of outsider perception and decontextualization SPECIFICALLY to maintain control over their kid

[walkingstackofbooks]

I always figured that if his parents were ableist in the 2370s, them being homophobic isn't such a massive leap. Especially with his dad being so obsessed about Julian being his "legacy" - I can imagine them wanting him to have a wife and "proper" children of his own no matter what modern medicine is capable of.

"it doesn't make any logical sense for julian to have hang-ups about being queer in the 2370s" is an objectively, factually correct take.

but I need julian bashir to have just bare minimum enough internalized homophobia for 'one of your girls' to be a garak pov garashir song

[worflesbian]

reverse unpopular opinion..... worf as a father/his relationship with alexander :)

ZOE. you knew exactly what you were doing sending this to me thank you SO much <3

i genuinely believe that worf and alexander's relationship is a really strong storyline and one of the best examples of a less-than-perfect parent/child dynamic in star trek. i've talked a lot about how worf was put in an incredibly difficult position suddenly becoming a single parent in early next gen, and i think his various ensuing failures towards alexander are realistic and accurate to his situation, and give insight into his flaws as a character (i.e. the stuff of compelling tv). the fact that worf seeks deanna's help throughout the following seasons is a crucial indication that he doesn't want to be failing his son the way he is, but the way he often ignores or struggles to follow her advice is, as mentioned, a realistic depiction of how people don't change overnight. by the end of next gen, episodes like firstborn show how much worf has changed for the better as a parent -- he's not perfect, but he's trying, and over the years it's paying off. and i Love how painfully true to life that is!!

this is why i used to resent that alexander was so absent from ds9 - i felt like things were finally looking up for their relationship at the end of next gen, and then the ds9 writers wrote alexander out again. however, i actually just rewatched way of the warrior this morning and it kind of changed my mind when miles asks about alexander and worf says that he's "much happier living with his grandparents on earth" - it's the kind of line that seems innocuous but has SO many implications when you dig into it! worf doesn't realise that he's fucking up by abandoning his son because he genuienly believes that alexander is happiest when he's not with worf. it's the root of worf's parenting struggles from the start: he's so scared of failing that he can't bring himself to confront the ways he's actually failing. which again is painfully true to life!

i think the thing i love most about their relationship is alexander's return in sons and daughters. i've talked a lot about that episode but i just can't think of another time on star trek where they've shown a child confront their parent with their failings and how awfully they've hurt them and show not only the process of that parent realising what they've done, but the genuine apology and reconciliation that follows. i think alexander gets the kind of admission of guilt and acceptance of consequence from worf that odo deserved, but could never realistically get, from dr mora, or julian from richard and amsha bashir. i love it because it shouldn't be on alexander to step up and confront his father, but a lot of things have happened to the both of them that shouldn't have, and it's so important to me that they show it get messy, that they show worf really lashing out at his own son, before they show the reconciliation. that combination of real hurt and real accountability is what makes them, in my opinion, the best depiction of this kind of dynamic in any trek show i've seen.

[riversmelody]

TW: eugenics and ableism

I think it’s really important to bring up things about Amsha Bashir aside from her involvement in Julian’s genetic engineering.

Amsha has a tendency to placate and excuse when Richard hurts or upsets Julian and I’m glad this is shown in the show, but I wanted to address and talk about it more.

What his parents did to him and the way Richard handles Julian’s grief about having been genetically modified is easier to tell when it comes to ways Julian has been harmed. A more subtle form of harm is having a parent defend or change the subject when the other parent says or does something harmful, without even acknowledging or trying to understand the child’s feelings or thoughts about the situation.

Scenes from Doctor Bashir, I Presume?

Richard: “Despite what the authorities would like us to believe, genetic engineering is nothing to be ashamed of. You’re not any less human than anyone else. In fact, you’re a little more.”

Amsha: “We didn’t come here to start another fight. Let’s just, try to get through this.”

Richard equates societal standards of intelligence with what makes someone more or less human, and there’s the implication that he saw Julian as less human before they had him modified. This was brushed off by Amsha and she wasn’t upset with his comment, she just didn’t want there to be another argument.

Amsha: “You don’t know. You’ve never had a child. You don’t know what it’s like to watch your son… to watch him fall a little further behind every day. You know he’s trying, but… something’s holding him back. You don’t know what it’s like to stay up every night worrying that maybe… it’s your fault. Maybe you did something wrong during the pregnancy, maybe you weren’t careful enough, or maybe there’s something wrong with you. Maybe you passed on a genetic defect without even knowing it. You can condemn us for what we did, you can say it’s illegal or immoral or whatever you want to say, but you have to understand that we didn’t do it because we were ashamed. It was because you’re our son, and we loved you.” (argument ends and Amsha hugs Julian)

I’m aware she does love Julian and didn’t intend to hurt him. It’s fair for Amsha to feel distressed about raising a disabled child. It’s difficult, society is often unaccepting, it’s hard to find resources, many teachers and even doctors are dismissive and non-understanding, etc. (does not make the genetic modifications done on Julian ok, but it is ok to struggle and be distressed about things)

But Julian was talking about how their decision to change his brain to the point where they essentially killed the son they originally had greatly harmed him. He was talking about how they decided he was worthless and wouldn’t amount to much, if anything, at 6 years old.

At the same time, Richard was continuously defending him and Amsha’s decision and belittling Julian for feeling the way he did about the situation. Amsha didn’t say anything about this. Even if she was afraid to intensify the argument, she could have acknowledged or validated Julian’s feelings in some way, but she didn’t. She continued helping Richard in defending their actions, although she was nicer/more polite about it.

Just wanted to discuss this aspect more in detail, since it’s shown but not really addressed in the episode

[walkingstackofbooks]

Too many DBIP feelings! #3

Part 1: Richard's insecurity over Julian's enhancements Part 2: Richard's arguing tactics Part 4: Their 'apologies' Part 5: Their disregard for Julian's wants

Part 2: Amsha's manipulations

Oh, she's just awful. First off, it was really noticeable how much she forces Julian to hug or touch her -- the first scene in Sisko's office, in particular, when he's so clearly uncomfortable.

And then she tries to make herself into this mediator, but she's not a good one. She loves Richard -- she talks about his stacks of drawings like their endearing, she's very affectionate with him, and while she will say something if she thinks he's going to far, I don't think it's necessarily because she disagrees with him, but because she knows how he said it will send Julian away. But she also is, in a way, happy to make out that Richard is the "bad parent" to keep her position as the neutral, loving parent intact. She makes Richard 'apologise', she takes none of the blame for the genetic engineering -- once again, I am going to call this behaviour gaslighting. Amsha is constantly manufacturing this image of her own reasonableness and love for Julian as opposed to his father's tendency to fly off the handle, and this is supposed to absolve her of any reponsibility she has for neglecting Julain's needs.

In my view, Amsha only interested in making Julian return her "love" for him (and to a lesser extent, Richard's too). In that second conversation, she initially makes a small plea for him to "listen to his father" (causing Julian to physically move away from her hand on his shoulder) -- and then allows them to continue with their argument, until it gets to the point where Julian implies they're both unloving. Her anger clearly takes Julian aback; she's the one here who attacks his feelings as unreasonable and makes him back down into silence. And then her entire argument is all about her feelings. To paraphrase: "Watching you struggle made me feel bad."

Then she says this: "You can condemn us for what we did. You can say it's illegal or immoral or whatever you want to say, but you have to understand that we didn't do it because we were ashamed, but because you were our son and we loved you."

i.e: "I know you think it was wrong, and I'll even let you say that, but you are not allowed to think that we don't love you."

And if Julian has to believe that his parents' motive was their love for him, then, actually... is he really allowed to condemn them? Or is that just lip service, again, to make Amsha sound reasonable and accommodating?

[sopranoentravesti]

Don’t fucking forget Ezri’s mom…

Who’s the worst parent in Star Trek?

John “leaves his daughter because she’s Klingon” Torres?

Sarek aka “Surprised he has a half human child after having a child with a human”?

[dimensionalspades]

DOSSIER CHEAT SHEET

LEGAL NAME: Julian Subatoi Bashir

NICKNAME[S]: N/A (Jules)

DATE OF BIRTH: August 29

GENDER: male

PLACE OF BIRTH: London, Earth

CURRENTLY LIVING: Deep Space 9

SPOKEN LANGUAGES: Federation Standard and it's sign equivalent, Arabic, Russian, Spanish, Bajoran, Cardassian, Ferengi (mid-level)

EDUCATION: Starfleet Medical Academy

HAIR COLOR: dark brown

EYE COLOR: hazel-brown

HEIGHT: 182.8 cm

WEIGHT: 74 kg

FAMILY INFORMATION

SIBLING[S]: none related, some unrelated

PARENT[S]: Richard and Amsha Bashir

RELATIVE[S]: Some relatives peppered around the Federation, but in general his family keep to themselves. The only exception is that he keeps in contact with his aunt in Juba who likes to tell him about the animals she fosters.

CHILDREN: none

PET[S]: none in canon, but he loves insects

RELATIONSHIP INFORMATION

SEXUAL ORIENTATION: I have him as bi but honestly he tends to sit more along pan. He genuinely could form a bond with any species. He's very in love with life in all its forms.

RELATIONSHIP STATUS: Varied, per the blog.

SINCE WHEN: Since me and my ship partners decided it. ilu all sm

tagged by: @my-timing-is-digital tagging: @fasciinating @tlacehualli @chronal-anomaly @elencr @nursc @lietwice @ofspvrta @ofvoidx @therapardalis @storiest0ld (janeway?) @apoapsis @ensnchekov @possessedchain @healingbrews @evcryopeneye (feng wu) @ anyone else who wants to, I'm tagging you too, do it and show me

[ao3feed-ds9]

Papercut

https://ift.tt/pV3H7Rr by garashirlover Julian agonises over the next choice for his and Elim's Book Club. Words: 881, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: M/M Relationships: Julian Bashir/Elim Garak, Julian Bashir & Elim Garak Additional Tags: Pre-Slash, References to Shakespeare, Shakespeare Quotations, Shakespearean Sonnets, Possibly Unrequited Love, Julian Bashir and Elim Garak's Book Club, POV Julian Bashir, Bisexual Julian Bashir, Bad Parents Amsha Bashir & Richard Bashir, Reading

[walkingstackofbooks]

Too many DBIP feelings! #5

Part 1: Richard's insecurity over Julian's enhancements Part 2: Richard's arguing tactics Part 3: Amsha's manipulations Part 4: Their 'apologies'

Part 5: Their disregard for Julian's wants

I feel like the previous points have covered this to an extent, but there's a big one which, previously, I've managed to overlook.

At the end of the second conversation, Amsha, in all her reasonableness, finally seems to start listening to Julian. She's shared her feelings, assured him they love him, and asks him "What do you want to do?", to which he, of course, responds with a weary "Nothing".

AND THEN THEY COMPLETELY DISREGARD THIS.

AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BASIS FOR JULIAN'S FORGIVENESS OF THEM?!

I mean, luckily for Julian, it worked out. But they had no basis to assume that Sisko could do anything, and they had no right to go behind Julian's back in the way that they did!

And this is something I've said before, but I also HATE how it's framed that Richard is going to prison "in exchange" for Julian's career. Why should Julian have to bear any of the responsibility for Richard going to prison, when it was Richard's choice to do something illegal that carries a prison sentence? But as it is, Julian would presumably be portrayed as unreasonable if, after this 'sarifice', he didn't forgive his parents and 'accept their love'. Gahhhhhhh. It's just another, horrible manipulation -- and while I don't believe his parents had that much power over how it played out, they must have been going into Sisko's office with some sort of similar agenda on the cards.

["He pleads guilty to illegal genetic engineering and in exchange you stay in the service."

Writing this post, and thinking about this quote, has started me wondering how exactly the conversation went down, because "I'll come quietly if you let him stay in Starfleet" isn't exactly a flex. Unless, of course, Richard has threatened to make this a very embarrassing, public, courtroom drama for Starfleet if the plea deal isn't made -- exactly the type of fuss Julian explicitly didn't want.

I know that Sisko's very good at making his case, and it might all have been his influence. But I can't help wondering if that was the only reason "Richard pleading guilty" would be seen as a good enough reason to acquit Julian, when whether he did or not, they now have evidence of his wrongdoing.]

[dimensionalspades]

I don't think there's actually any good dialogue from Richard or Amsha. Every word out of their mouths in DBIP is either belittling Julian, lying to someone, or self-aggrandizing bullshit from Richard. He immediately takes ownership of Julian's career like 2 sentences in and belittles his other career options (which is hinted at several points in the series that Julian wanted to play tennis professionally). All throughout the episode Amsha continually reinforces Richard, especially in telling Julian that they completely turned him into a new person Out Of Love(tm).

And even when Richard's apologizing for a fight he started, he and Amsha do it on their own time, in the middle of an infirmary that's always busy and led to an even worse problem because they couldn't wait until Julian was free. They had to do it when they wanted. And Richard's apology is done with all the sincerity of a petulant toddler, completely defending himself the entire time.

Not to mention that the end of the ep is still them ignoring Julian. They finally ask "what do you want us to do?" and Julian tells them in no uncertain terms that he wants to resign and leave quietly. They then immediately do the opposite and go to Sisko, who has to take it higher. Julian was losing his career either way and they still went against his express wishes to handle this how he wanted. They basically tripped into a good solution. And I know that DS9 has a problem with "make amends with your toxic parents despite them not really admitting that what they did was fucked up" (looking at you, mora pol) and Julian wasn't going to be removed from the show, but the end of the ep still bothers me when the final message is "we did a Big Eugenics on our son but we said sorry and now Richard is going to jail for 2 years and we called him Julian instead of Jules (after like a decade of Julian telling us he doesn't want to be called Jules) so all is well right? :)". No, into the garbage can with both of you.

[julian-bashir-secret-agent]

I identify with this guy a lot. I subscribe to the "Body Parts implied Julian had a uterus" headcanon, but I also see his augmentation through the lens of cultural assimilation, given my own experiences.

Growing up, my parents spoke mostly English in the house, in an effort to ensure I would be able to fit into American society without the "hindrance" of Spanish. I'm utterly divorced from many Puerto Rican cultural practices, much less the rich culture that was in turn destroyed when the Spanish genocided the Taíno.

My parents (particularly my mother, who saw me as an extension of herself) put me through extra schooling that was (at times) inappropriate for a child of my age. Everything was about getting good grades and ensuring I was successful in the context of American society, and all else was cast aside.

Similarly, Amsha and Richard Bashir clearly didn't assimilate perfectly into "proper" society, whatever that looks like in the Federation. Richard Bashir did everything—including the abuse that was Julian's augmentation—to ensure Julian succeeded, and to show that he himself belonged.

To some degree, both Richard Bashir and my own mother were successful. Both I and Julian were robbed of our cultural identity and forced into the mould of the dominant culture of our time.

There was so much to wrap up at the end of DS9, but I'd have liked to see Julian reconnect with his extended family, after the truth of his augmentation came to light.

          JULIAN BASHIR in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine is TRANS! ♡

[lorenzobane]

I really am not like this most of the time, but my Everyone Is Wrong About Them character analysis is Julian and his relationship with his parents.

People like to make their relationship incredibly simple when it seems somewhat obvious to me that their relationship is intensely complicated. Anyway! Let's look at the receipts.

RICHARD: Oh, so now we're not taking it seriously. We're not as bright as he is. We don't have your gifted intellect so we can't see the perfectly obvious. BASHIR: This is exactly why I haven't been home in three years. AMSHA: Jules, please.

Julian tells us, in this episode, that he hasn't been home to visit in three years. He tells us this in Season 5, which means that at some point in Season 2, Julian went to Earth to visit his parents. They are not estranged, and it is not true that they haven't spoken since he went to DS9. In fact, they were still in close enough contact for him to go all the way to Earth, a long trip, just to see them. Of course, it went wrong- but they do speak to each other. People often use his awkwardness in Homefront to suggest that they're not speaking, but it seems somewhat obvious to me that he wouldn't want Sisko or Odo to meet his parents because it would immediately show how different from them he is.

AMSHA: No, this is important. You can condemn us for what we did. You can say it's illegal or immoral or whatever you want to say, but you have to understand that we didn't do it because we were ashamed, but because you were our son and we loved you. (Bashir and Amsha hug.)

This is after they've already found out that they've outed him. He still cares about them, and specifically her, enough to hug her and comfort her.

BASHIR: Well, I want no part of it. I'm not going to just stand by while my father-- RICHARD: Jules. Julian. Listen to me. This is my decision. I'm the one who took you to Adigeon Prime. I'm the one who should take responsibility for it. AMSHA: Let him do this, Julian. BASHIR: Two years? Isn't that a bit harsh?

Again, this further complicates their relationship because while Julian DOES want his father to take responsibility, he doesn't want him to suffer. He's protective of them, there is an intimacy that exists between them because for the majority of his life they were all reliant on each other keeping a huge secret from everyone. For many years, his parents were the only people he can be honest with.

And, as Julian keeps saying in the episode, part of why he's keeping the secret so tightly is to protect them. He's worried about his commission but he's ALSO worried about their punishment and I think that adds to his emotional complexity with them. He wants them punished, he wants them to take responsibility- but he also doesn't want them to suffer.

RICHARD: I guess I'll see you in a couple of years. BASHIR: I'm sure they have visiting hours at your facility. Maybe I could RICHARD: That would be most welcome.

Does that sound like the line of someone who plans to never speak to his father again? No. I think Julian views his parents with a type of constant agony- where it is painful and confusing and hard every single day, and yet, he doesn't cut them out. I understand that people want it to be easy- Julian just cuts them off! But it's not. It's especially complicated because the worst thing they ever did to him was years ago, and there is no way to undo it. And then his father went to prison for him, because he loves him. How do you reconcile those things? I don't think Julian can.

Even MORE to the point though- like, if you write him cutting his parents out of his life entirely you are actually just mischaracterizing him. I think there is a reason why so many first-generation kids relate so hard to Julian (I'm not the first person to point this out and I won't be the last- but i'm not going to get into that can of worms now).

I know I’ve literally written an entire fic on this subject before but it still Irritates me.

[subatoism]

Y’know don’t take this as apologism but Amsha’s comment about worrying Julian had inherited his learning/developmental disabilities from them makes a lot more sense if you’re reading Richard “can’t hold down a job” “leaping from passion project to passion project” “right now it’s landscape architecture” Bashir as also ADHD and struggling with his own internalized ableism which he likely inherited from *his* parents