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quillyfied · 8 months ago

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Hellaverse Theories: Hazbin Hotel S1E8

Welcome to Quilly’s Hellaverse Theories, where I overthink the entire Hellaverse! Last episode of Hazbin time, and after this I’ll start on Helluva Boss (which shouldn’t be nearly as long but I am a windbag so who knows). Let’s go!!

Hazbin Hotel s1e8, here we go:

And here we go again with Vox and his complete reasonable obsession with Alastor and anyone who associates with him, love that for Vox, truly. Best life: he’s living it. But it’s also kinda scary how comprehensive a view Vox has of everyone and everything; we know this already, but watching him watching the Hotel just sort of feels…more violating. Because of audience bonding with the characters, really, but still. There’s a reason why the Vees are a terrifying force to be reckoned with and its real-world reflections make me too sad and full of impotent rage to manage so let’s move on.

Charlie wishing her mom could see this! Sweet! Valid! Somehow super sad knowing where her mom is but not knowing why!!

Well. Vaggie straight-up calls them all “sinners.” So for me that pretty handily puts the “are cannibals sinners” debate to bed. For a while, at least; I’m still gonna be double-checking the blood spatter when the battle starts.

Yeah Pentious giving the grand toast to not dying, I’m not. I’m not emotional. I’m fine.

So this little scene with Alastor and Niffty…intriguing. Seems to show a softer side of Alastor, one where he hangs up the scheming for one minute and admits he’s been enjoying himself, enjoying these people (for their interpersonal drama entertainment value if nothing else). It’s funny and it’s sweet and definitely shows why Niffty sticks with Alastor on the off chance he doesn’t own her soul. And it also has me not completely convinced that when Alastor gets the chance to accomplish his goals by betraying everyone at the Hotel, he isn’t going to feel some level of conflict about it. Getting a character who believes so completely in their own infallibility to crack: the ultimate Good Narrative Food.

(nope hang on angel and husk are flirting pause the analysis have to go squeal about it—)

(I’m a veteran of the Good Omens (TV) fandom and got pulled into watching a snake and reptile care youtube, I know about snake hemipenes, why is the mention that Pentious might have them taking me out at the kneecaps)

Lute being Too Much for Adam never ceases to make me laugh. Or remember that she definitely deserves to be a main villain, at least for a little while. (Alright her name is Lute because “lieutenant” but for the longest time I thought her name was Lute as in “guitar-like instrument” because Adam WOULD, that weirdo; I choose to believe it’s both tbh.) Lute is someone who is way more a foil for Vaggie than anyone else right now, and the absolute struggle in her future is making me excited. ALL ABOARD THE STRUGGLE BUS, LUTE.

I’m sorry I just paused to make another note of something but it’s flown OUT OF MY ENTIRE HEAD because I just realized HUSK AND ANGEL ARE BOTH CRACKING THEIR KNUCKLES AT THE SAME TIME AS THE EXORCISTS APPROACH. WHAT WAS I SAYING??

Right. Vaggie. Got her new wings, and it’s interesting to me that she immediately hides them. Even more interesting to me that she CAN immediately hide them; none of the angels ever seem to, if they even can. That seems a little more…demonic in nature. Because Lucifer certainly can. Sera and Emily change their forms slightly, but the wings stay out at all times (mainly bc it seems Heaven is specifically formed around being able to get around with them on, especially the courtroom). Just one more way that Vaggie is embracing her new life, I suppose.

And here come the Vees, safe in whatever bunker they’ve got, and once again I can’t stress enough how Vox seems to be the only one with any interest in the proceedings. The other two are treating it like Vox dragged them to a sports event that he’s super into and they’re just along for moral support at best. The utter boredom of it all is something I can’t fathom. But I’ll try: this means nothing to them. The Hotel means nothing. The Extermination means nothing because they can just hide from it while the rest of Hell gets slaughtered. They’re cold-blooded ruthless manipulators who might be about to give Lucifer a run for his money if they aren’t stopped. I look forward to season 2 very much. Because on a grand scale, the Vees mean NOTHING. Their games are PETTY SQUABBLES. They don’t rank on the cosmic horror scale because the fight is so much bigger than they are. But they can sure throw wrenches into things!

ALRIGHT HERE WE GO THE PRODUCT OF MY MANY THEORIES ABOUT OVERLORD MECHANICS AND ALASTOR SPECIFICALLY: the shield moment. They seem to be expecting it to happen, so Alastor knew he could do it, but it’s my firm belief that he couldn’t until he made the deal with Charlie. He figured out that he can get powerups just from making deals themselves, or else has been doing it better than anyone else if it’s a known thing, and Charlie isn’t a slouch in the power department. So that’s my theory: Alastor is only able to go toe-to-toe with Adam at all because he’s borrowing a little taste of Charlie’s power from their deal. He’s already plenty powerful, and maybe he could do the shield the whole time, but I do think the deal with Charlie was made at a very opportune time, and Alastor probably only agreed to take on Adam solo because of his overconfidence in himself now boosted with having some of Charlie’s power. I only really have a gut feeling to provide as a source for this, because the only one who proves up to facing Adam is Lucifer; Alastor made a good call, possibly recruiting more of Charlie’s power more directly in a deal when he did, but Charlie isn’t a match for Adam, either, so Alastor very much couldn’t be. He has the speed and the skill to definitely give Adam a bad time, but he can’t withstand the power. Charlie doesn’t have the skill, but she could have the power in time. Lucifer…well, he’s an unfair powerhouse, deus ex machina in a top hat and resolving daddy issues, and we love that for him.

Anyway. Shield. Angels finding out in a very nasty way they can be killed. Adam being his usual misogynistic self. And then Adam deciding he’s over it and obliterating the shield in one punch.

I get the feeling that Adam really doesn’t do much during Exterminations beyond laugh and make tasteless jokes while occasionally smiting demons that get too close or look fun to squash. Because he just effortlessly whips out these shows of power that nobody seems to be able to account for, which makes me think it’s because nobody has ever seen Adam actually try and fight in earnest before. Following the theme of the show, they’re hopelessly outmatched (outgunned outmanned outnumbered outplanned I’M SORRY), and manage to pull a win out of their asses anyway thanks to the power of Love (and pulling Lucifer out of his millennia-long funk for at least half an hour), which Adam very clearly doesn’t have. But. Who needs Love when you have whatever terrifying powerup the higher-ups saw fit to give him?

“A mortal soul is no match for me, edgelord.” Okay. Okay. Here we go. So…Adam isn’t a mortal soul…despite being the first human soul in Heaven. He wields divine light and has a divine axe. Lilith isn’t a mortal soul despite being the original first woman, rules as Queen of Hell when she’s at home, and has an inspiring voice and song to grow Hell’s strength. It’s safe to say that someone else granted them these powerups (Sera/the Seraphim for Adam, Lucifer for Lilith). So…let’s look at Alastor again, just for a sec. He demonstrates ability far beyond what we see any other Overlord or demon do, seems to know his way around deals and loopholes like the slipperiest lawyer in existence, and his rise to infamy was meteoric. It’s a popular theory that instead of Lilith, the person holding the other end of Alastor’s leash is Roo, especially given the repeating eye motif that he has in his magic, but I wonder if Roo isn’t giving him a power-up already, and the deal where he’s caged is something else. If the two are separate in some way.

“You should know better than anyone what a soul can accomplish when they take charge of their own fate.” Now THAT…throws a very different spin on the theory, actually. If Adam and Lilith weren’t gifted their abilities, but took them, Lilith drawing from Hell and Adam from Heaven. If nobody gave either of them anything at all, but they found ways to elevate themselves. Or…made deals, perhaps? Either way, Alastor seems well on his way to becoming something Else just like they are, but. He isn’t there yet. Hence the need to make a deal with Charlie and stick close to her and her budding power. Hence why Alastor couldn’t take on Adam yet.

Y’know. I haven’t mentioned or noticed Alastor’s shadow much. But it certainly is a huge part of his power. Just like the microphone staff, which is broken now oh nooooo. But back to the shadow—the combination of the shadow plus the voodoo aspect of Alastor’s powers are a bit too much Dr. Facilier for comfort (which is hysterical given that Keith David is right there voicing Husk), but the tentacles add a nice touch. Although all of that, plus the deer aspect, plus the possible cannibalism and serial murder, plus the radio—does it seem like Alastor might have too much going on? Because I’m wondering how much of that is his, and how much is alternative powerups from other deals. He made his name as an Overlord killer, after all—and as an Overlord himself, owning souls grants power. I’m certain that whatever supply he’s high on, it’s the only way he was able to survive being first hit by pure holy light, and then cut down by Adam like that. So it must be working for him—but not well enough.

There is something so comedically horrific about how Adam just…vaporizes Pentious, war machine and all. It seems to be a pretty effective death; however, I do have to wonder how it would affect Pentious’ ability to be redeemed if it was angelic steel that got him instead of holy light. Either way, confirming that there are multiple ways to kill demons, angelic steel is just the most straightforward, and wow he’s just wholly gone now, huh? Not even any debris or a body or anything.

(Putting this theory up while I’m thinking about it: concerning Charlie’s deal with Alastor, and specifically the “one favor where you harm no one” bit, a part of me thinks that Alastor is going to have Charlie stand aside and let him kill someone…just to prove that they can be redeemed. Whether that’s Alastor’s purpose or not in killing is up for constant debate in my head, but I do want it made very clear that Pentious wasn’t redeemed until he died. Demonic redemption might require double death; maybe the souls are re-judged on double death anyway. Who knows??)

HEY, BLOOD THEORY CONFIRMATION: Dazzle (gosh I hope I got that right) bleeds black. He’s Hellborn. There IS differentiation in blood colors given in this show. NICE.

So why the ENTIRE HELL does Charlie bleed RED?

It’s subtle, it could be written off as her horns, but it’s there in certain shots; she’s bleeding from the head after Adam throws her into the hotel sign, definite drips that aren’t her horns at all, or bloodstains from possibly being close to cannibals who died. And it’s red. Why is it red? Why does she bleed red like sinners, Viv? WHY DOES SHE BLEED RED, VIV?

Because here’s the only thing I can think of: that means one, she DOES have a soul (an immortal soul, like Adam says, mechanic not metaphor), because two, she might be something close to half-human, or at least half-sinner, or half-whatever the actual hell Lilith is. This makes her powerful, but also incredibly vulnerable, just the same as sinners are with their souls. And it puts her more on their level; she isn’t some above-it-all royal that’s something entire Other from the sinners, she’s sort of partially one of them. (Not to say she doesn’t still have her royal privilege and so forth and et cetera let’s move on.)

Alright Vaggie hiding away her wings is kinda worth it for the badass blink-and-you-miss-it tearing open of the back of her battle uniform to let them out. And, uh, can we give Jessica Vosk ALL the credit for that absolutely unhinged Lute scream as she TEARS HER OWN ARM OFF??

(Also, to the legend who wrote the Lute’s Arm/Vaggie’s Eye fanfic: I didn’t read it but I think of you often.)

But: Lute and Vaggie setting up to be tragic narrative foils, most likely complete with Lute spiraling as she completely loses any sense of self or direction while her world crumbles around her and Vaggie going from suspicious to pitying. When the truth about how fucked up the Exorcist legion is comes out, I’m sure there’s going to be signs about how they were both hurt pretty deeply by being a part of it but handled it differently, Vaggie by being lucky enough to find a support group after she was kicked out and Lute struggling with carrying on the legacy alone. Also, calling it now, if Emily doesn’t Fall, then Lute is definitely gonna try to kill her at least once. Anyway. That’s probably super endgame stuff.

LUCIFER, DEUS EX MACHINA! Or. Uh. Diaboli ex machina? Eh who cares LOOK AT HIM GO. It’s such a fun fight, watching him zing around Adam and shapeshift and be all creative and zany. Right up until it matters—and then he’s all business. Fiery, deadly business. Also how did he get his voice to do that (the “you’re in my house now, bitch” part, not the “go home” part). But it’s such an important moment for witnessing that dreamer that Heaven cast out, the creative powerhouse that just wanted to make something nice, something meaningful. Adam can’t fight him because Lucifer isn’t really fighting. He’s playing. Right up until Adam threatens Charlie again. She’s the only thing worth fighting for to him, after all.

So very interesting to me too that when Lucifer is in his demon aspect, the snake on his hat becomes a halo. (Also, unlike the other Sins, he doesn’t get any taller. Bless him.)

Now. Let’s address the elephant—or, rather, the very small cyclops—in the room. Niffty killing Adam. It’s certainly a twist. It’s the biggest, weirdest twist I’ve ever seen. It kind of doesn’t make any narrative sense. It boggles the brain that Niffty, the littlest demon in the group, the bit side character, gets to kill Adam, the big bad of the season. But in a way…that’s kind of perfect? It DOESN’T make any narrative sense. LIFE doesn’t make narrative sense. Not everything is going to fit into a perfect metaphor. Although, if I tried…Niffty took out the biggest cockroach of all :P Alright I’ll be honest I don’t know. I’d love to read other people’s thoughts on why it happened like this. Because it’s not like I don’t enjoy it as a narrative choice, it’s just so jarring and my English major brain hasn’t made it make sense yet.

Such an unexpectedly tender character moment to have Adam’s dying smile be for Lute, though. Yeah, she’s gonna be REAL hecked up next season. And not because she’s way more homicidal than Adam somehow.

(Also, back to my blood color theory: cannibals bleed red. They’re sinners. Stop the debates, it’s canon and I can prove it now. Kinda. Still got the whole. Charlie bleeding red thing throwing a wrench into my everything.)

And we see some of the littler pieces to finish off a lot of my theories—the Vees’ ultimate plan to seize control of Hell going off pretty well despite the Hotel surviving (not that it mattered to them either way, the plan was to throw the other Overlords off their game and take their stuff, not mess with the Hotel at all); Husk and Niffty going about their days but looking surprised with the rest of the group when Alastor shows back up (and still uncertain if they knew he was alive or dead and if they even would know if he died tbh). But let’s take one last little peep at Alastor before I close the book on him for now.

Y’know. They really do make it unclear if it’s Alastor Altruist, or Alastor, altruist.

But more than that, it’s the first time he acknowledges his deal and the fact that his powers are limited—which is why he might use non-soul deals with others anyway, to get around his soul deal constraints. And if he’s LIMITED and he went to bat against Adam and held his own pretty well, maybe I need to rethink my own assessment of his strength and how he’s leashed (unless, of course, the theories are right and it’s a deal with Lilith keeping him constrained from using his powers except in her service, so he really was at maximum potential in that fight and just isn’t strong enough yet). But he’s confident (as he always is) that once he’s out of his deal, he’ll be where he wants to be, pulling strings and manipulating fates and probably strong enough to replace Lucifer (and wouldn’t it be twisty if Alastor used his favor with Charlie to let him kill and replace her father as King of Hell? Wild. Anyway—). But until then, he’s showing back up at the hotel after it’s been rebuilt, sans staff, and while fanon has latched onto the idea of his wound containing angelic essence that’s slowly killing him…I’m not so sure if canon is going to go that route, but his missing staff is probably way more significant than the wound, and I’m curious about that.

Now forget about these losers, let’s go check out the last two scenes and put proper bows on my last two theories.

First: Pentious, redeemed, showing up before the Seraphim and NOT at the heavenly gates. Convenient for keeping something this reality-shaking a secret! I still don’t know that I’m fully convinced that Sir Pentious is truly the first sinner to be redeemed; I still kinda think he’s just the first one that Sera and Emily noticed, but I’m looking forward to exploring that mystery more next season. Maybe with Molly as an actual character this time? The folks who keep drawing and writing about Molly and Pentious being friends, you’re legends, keep doing that; it will sustain me if I am disappointed.

Second: Lute and Lilith on a beach in Heaven, presumably. Alright, wording: “Adam is dead. Your deal is done, and I’m in charge now.” There is. So much to unpack in that. Starting with “Your deal is done.” Lilith…made a deal…with Adam? Adam made a deal with Lilith? Or Lilith made a deal with someone else, like the Seraphim, and Adam happened to be a condition? The most likely explanation is that Lilith made a deal with Adam, but for what and why remains to be seen. It sure looks like Lilith made a deal with her ex-husband to relax in Heaven and let Hell rot, but things really aren’t as they seem in this show; appearances are constantly deceiving. I’ve heard the popular theory that Lilith and Eve share a body (very, very weird implications if so), and it’s shown in some family portraits that Lilith can banish her horns just like Lucifer can his wings (or Charlie her horns, for that matter), but not showing Lilith’s eyes, keeping her shrouded in mystery—is that to conceal her identity as swapping between herself and Eve, is it just to build mystery about Lilith herself (who again is NEVER HECKING MENTIONED EXCEPT BY CHARLIE AND ADAM), is it for lolz? What the heck could Lilith and Adam have possibly traded for, anyway? Letting Lilith crash in Heaven in exchange for…what? The Exterminations have surely been going on for longer than seven years. Lilith could be imprisoned, but Lute’s behavior and language doesn’t convey that at all. Like, AT ALL.

Additional question: does Lute even have the power to take Adam’s place? Or will she get the power as she assumes command?

Anyway, moving forward in this scene, Lute later says “Your brat is threatening the very foundation of Heaven.” Interesting, showing that Lute is just as fearful of a Hellish uprising as Sera is and what that means for the safety of Heaven and the souls they’re protecting. “And if you want to stay here” And if you want to stay here. IF YOU WANT TO STAY HERE. Lilith is definitely there because she wants to be. Or at least Lute believes she wants to be. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if both Lilith and Lucifer are exhausted with their existences, but it is such a contradictory thing, for Charlie to believe so wholeheartedly that her mother is off doing something important, that she loved Hell and cared about its denizens, only to show Lilith on a beach needing to be threatened with leaving it to get up and deal with Charlie. But, then, Charlie also believed her father didn’t want to see her and didn’t really care about her. It’s possible that Charlie is wrong about her mother. But we have so few clues and it’s easy to assume the worst when this is how Lilith is truly introduced.

One thing I keep noticing and keep forgetting to go back and check for: Lilith’s necklace. There really aren’t very many details that don’t have some sort of thought put into them, and her necklace while laying out on a beach is…eye-catching, at least to me. It’s simple, but I just wonder if it’s present in any of the portraits, because I keep forgetting to check for it. Maybe if I write it down, I’ll remember to keep an eye out next time.

I’m sure that there are theories and threads that I didn’t finish, because I have word-vomited something like 24,000 words of theories and reactions and maddened questions; now that I have it all out of my system, maybe I’ll make organized, reasonable posts where the theories are actually separated and presented as cohesive wholes rather than themes carrying across episodes. But I have to get through my Helluva Boss analyses first!

Thanks so much for sticking around and sticking it out, and if any of this made sense, then I’m glad! Later!

#quilly's hellaverse theories #hazbin hotel #quilly writing

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jittyjames · 10 months ago

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ok let me talk about john 11:35 for a moment— or jesus wept

this fic is actually more recently written. it originally started as a Valentine's Day fic for the jcs discord server (sun/moon dynamics with jesus/mary/judas) but then it twisted into this big ole fic. you can still see the whispers of the fluff piece it once was, like when jesus compares mary to light and warmth and stares at the stars with judas. so i didn't get to actually join that challenge, but there was an effort!

i think it's quite clear the disciples in this fic were actually a commentary on most modern day religious spaces. like blatantly ignoring the words of jesus to focus on their hate instead? searching for power? having no forgiveness of empathy for even the man they call savior? yeahhhhh. i think the disciples are still sympathetic characters honestly, and they're more traumatized than anything. their perceptions of death are so scattered at the moment. so much so they can't even grasp what it means to die anymore. because jesus came back. he came back after the horrors. he suffered, but yet he's still here. so how bad can death truly be? and they want to ensure their legacies are intact. they want to become legends, just like they always did. but now, two of their own just died at once. they have to scramble to make sure they're leaving something behind. so now, let's talk about the misogyny. we can see it begin to mold. we all know jesus accepted women perfectly well into the group, that it was the apostles and paul who started with the whole "women should sit down and shut up" type thing. but we can see that with mary's treatment. peter is the first person to disregard her when it comes to picking the next apostle. yeah he says it's because she's traumatized, but truly it's because he doesn't think he can handle sharing the spotlight with someone who jesus loves more than him again. (we all know i headcanon judas and peter as jesus' right and left hand). it's not necessarily that he's in love with jesus or anything like that, but he knows how he feels. he thinks he knows what's best at the moment. mary and judas? even jesus to an extent? ruled by their emotions for each other. he sees judas' betrayal as the result of some petty relationship drama. he won't have it coming in again to ruin everything he has planned. but peter is also viewing mary as weak. how can she grieve the man who killed jesus? why is she crying all the time when she should be spitting on his grave like the rest of them? it makes Peter not trust her. and then you just have the period-typical misogyny, too mixing with that. then, we also have matthias not even acknowledging her, even as she stands by jesus' side. she's not important to him or to the story, even if she's jesus' heart. she's already being erased by the narrative. and john making the choice of leaving their relationship as a whole out of his book? rooted in homophobia and misogyny. their version on jesus should be above the likes of mary and judas. i have a lot of disciples thoughts. they're not perfect, but they're not simply evil here either. they have their reasons. like can you imagine watching your friend die bc their boyfriend sold them out to the police, and no one really gives you a good explanation for it? you'd be pissed, too. you'd be hurt.

ONE OF THE THINGS IDK IF ANYONE HAS MENTIONED YET. He had caught sight of him one night, sitting amongst a field of poppies, the darkness encasing the deep red of them, the pale blue of Judas.- POPPIES ARE A SYMBOL OF DEATH. JUDAS WAS SITTING IN A FIELD OF POPPIES NIGHTLY. idk if anyone caught onto it, but i most definitely wrote that with an intention. ALSO i had never utilized feet washing scenes bc i don't want people to think i have a foot fetish but like. there's so much angst potential there, and gerohugerh.

also i tried to sprinkle as much judas imagery as I could (or at least what i find to be imagery) but the more obvious ones like the blue coat and peaches, and the judas tree as the hanging tree. but also birds, spring, and stars. hehe. very sell-indulgent.

my roman empire is mary and jesus moving to kerioth to feel close to judas. i love this idea. i love the picture of it. i headcanon kerioth as just the typical, small southern town. orchards and fields, farms and small schools, everyone knows everyone. i mean is this me projecting my own small town life? yeahhhh.

but something i didn't get to talk about is the issue of simon iscariot. but I think I'll save that one 👀

there's a part of me that want to add to this bc @pinkishflowersilverycoin and i hatched a plot in dms. like judas isn't in hell in this world. he's in heaven. jesus didn't go back, so it's just judas alone up there for the time being. he'll be the one to welcome all the disciples, mary, jesus when they die. (will jesus die?? who is to say?? is it some weird supernatural thing?? maybe.) but we felt like maybe judas would take on peter's supposed role at heaven's gate. he's the first one to get there. they'll all have to deal with him again, so even if the apostles think that he's just rotting somewhere, his will be the first face they see when they die.

also we didn't even get started on jesus and mary's kids (sara and elias of kerioth, respectively). we decided they would be the ones to write some gnostic gospels, wanting to set the record straight about their third hypothetical parent, and tell the actual story of their mourning parents.

and I think this is everything for now!

#director ask game

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gothgalpumpkin · 2 years ago

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Nah, bc I have tingz to say about Halloweentown!

I'll start off saying that I wouldn't really want a re-write or a reboot or something like that, but the way it could have been spread out was a missed opportunity I'll always lament on. What do you mean Gal? I'm glad you asked ghost in my corner! I mean to say that HT really could have been the Cromwell series and not just about my gurl Marnie. But instead ALL of the Cromwell children and their relations with magic and the magic worlds.

(Is she about to go into a tangent? Yes, yes she it)

Let's talk about little Sophie. Movie one demonstrates just how much more powerful she was to Marnie with her being much younger and already using magic without her knowledge. Now the argument could be that its just how all the children were since at that age of course they wouldn't know how to control their magic. However, never once was it mentioned either offhandedly or directly that Marnie or Dylan also experienced such a thing. Perhaps they did, but for argument sake, I'm only using the facts shown in the movies and the fact is, Sophie wanted that cookie and gonna get that cookie 🍪. All that being said, I wish we got more of Sophie and that struggle of obviously being the Family's prodigy but being overlooked by Aggie's favoritism towards Marnie (*I'll be going over this much much later in a different post 👀).

Perhaps we could have seen the fear that she'll never be as good as Marnie despite being stronger and since she's not getting that same level of training, Sophie might fear that her abilities will diminish instead of flourish into the Witch we all know she could be. I think the third movie should have been more about Sophie and that internal struggle of knowing deep down she's naturally stronger, but could never measure up to Aggie's high expectations. I'm not saying I'd like to see Sophie suffer or turn "Evil" but I'd love to see the turmoil that would arise from that internal struggle and how she views her relationships with her grandma and Marnie. Maybe she sees Aggie the way that her mother sees Aggie, maybe Sophie gets Gwen a little deeper. Maybe she understands Dylan in a way that makes Sophie a bridge between him and Marnie.

Speaking of Dylan. My poor boy, Dylan. OK, where to start. Oh, I know! (Bit of a rant incoming) How about the blatant disrespect for his boundaries and preferences? How many times has he stated he doesn't want to identify as a Warlock or that he doesn't feel comfortable with Magic to begin with? Since movie one this man has stated that he didn't like magic and that's more of a science guy. Cool, that's cool right? Nope, not for Marnie and Aggie apparently.

Yes, we all know that Dylans isn't the strongest warlock and that's because he has successfully locked it away within himself, that's his prerogative, he's happier with the "Normies" he's comfortable. Yet time and time again he's pushed into uncomfortable situations for the sake of Marnie's comfort (end of rant). Dylan is a muti-layered character that's actually very complex, however the story seems to continue this one note narrative of him being the "buzzkill" the "party-pooper" the one always complaining about having an amazing gift. But what may be a gift to you can be a curse to someone else. To Marnie, discovering that she's (genetically and historically) special was one of the greatest days of her life while simultaneously, it was crushing to Dylan. That gap of weirdness to normalcy has just widened and now its not as simple as being an outcast (for early 2000s standards lol) but it's inherently linked within. To Dylan, he knows he could never really be normal. Like Sophie, we really needed to see that turmoil played out without it being a joke because after the first and second movies, it's not funny anymore. He's not Marnie, he doesn't see Magic as a deep fundamental part of his being.

Can you imagine the feeling of being told your family name is important enough that it links to the founding of an entire world and that very world expects so much from you, but you don't have the drive to deliver? And why should you, it's just a name, right? You didn't choose to Heir from greatness, why is there so much pressure to do what you don't want to? That's what I think rings through Dylan. Because even in a place of Monsters and ghouls and magic, he's still the outcast. A Cromwell who doesn't have the ambition to become as great as their line before them? It's unheard of, it's strange. So, something must be wrong with them right? I think the fourth movie (we will FOREVER ignore HT4, what HT4?!) Should haven been about Dylan and his full acceptance as he is without the influence of his family. I think it should have been him going to a college of his own choosing (bc why would you make one child attend the same college as the other child just to keep an eye on them – uh, huh!?) we watch him find his footing and meets another witch/warlock who also finds mortal normalcy comforting. I think if he finds people like him who validates his feelings Dylan would be able to come to terms with so many internal struggles that be has such as he quiet resentment towards Marnie and Aggie. I think at even at a young age, Dylan truly understood Gwen and that's why he was always on her side with everything (also bc he's a mama's boy. Let's be real ✨️).

Often times I just that there were several missed opportunities for flesh out these characters and their importance in the world of Halloweentown and how they each interacted with their magical roots and culture.

I want to talk about Gwen as well, but I think that deserves its own post so I'll be doing another long one on her (and Aggie). But I will say you do look at things from her perspective as an adult in comparison as a child. I actually feel sort of sad for her, but I'll get into it soon. I have so many things to say about Halloween town and alot of the old 2000s disney spooky movies we grew up with and how they connect. I did an entire video on TT on how I believe HT and nightmare before Christmas is connected which I'll be placing here but in a more written cohesive format.

That's all I have for now, there's still so much i want to talk about, I'll be back soon 🖤

#halloweeniscool #halloweentown #halloween #marniepiper #sophiepiper #dylan piper #long post #rant mostly #sorta #what do you think?#idk lmao #is this considered analysis

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allpromarlo · 2 years ago

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since the important part of you (my mutuals) asked, here's rose oc wank: nfl edition

this is gonna get a lil unrealistic and of course if you (for some fuckn reason) have a problem with ocs for a real life sports league then GET OUUUTTTTT

n e ways

so i already spoilered some of the things this peculiar group of Sad Wet Men have to offer but i wanna start with the running back or as i (the name generator i ran through 437 times.) called him, duane cameron. he's a rb who got drafted in 2011 in the 2nd round bc i just can't let go of my senior citizens (terms and conditions apply i KNOW 34 isn't old) to the panthers. i don't know if they were actually in need of a rb at that time but fuck it they have one now and he's gorjus.

he's known cam (1st ovr pick yannooooo) since high school (after moving away from canada...but that's a whole thing i don't even wanna get into that) and when they got drafted to the same team cam was more enthralled by it than duane but hey he'll have to live w that now. no eli manning shenanigans you are STAYING THERE

n e ways he played for the panthers for a couple seasons and he was always in the top 10 rb conversations (from 2012 onwards bc the only thing people remember him for in 2011 is getting batista bombed by jj watt). he won opoy in 2014 for the first time and repeated in 2015. yk what also happened in 2015.

bc i am chronically living in the past and i'll never stand for the injustice that was dealt on that particular day in 2016, of course my 6'7 babygirl (don't question the dimensions. just Don't.) was the missing piece to the panthers super bowl and they do win that shit fuck you and your big ass forehead peyton. duane also wins sbmvp bc of his outlandish 377 yard performance (I FUCKING WARNED YOU) but you could expect that

n e ways after an easy repeat in 2016 (julio i wanted you to have this so bad but...the Narrative) and some drama in 2017 (mainly due to cam making the bail for no fucken reason) my boy finally hung up the boots in carolina and signed with the ravens because i am a biased little fangirlie and i want my team to have everything. he won the chip in 2019 w the murder birds and maybe sorta somewhat did it again in 2022 but shhhh

n e ways this was a LOT for just one guy and trust me he's the only one with that much history. movin tf on

so in my last post i did mention a 2nd oc who's a social experiment. well his name is ansis knight (that was NOT my idea btw i asked my brother to give me a name for a cornerback and this is what he came up with) and he's a social experiment in the sense that he's literally german. like his dad is american and everything but the dude grew up in Heidelberg, schönste Stadt im Land.

as i said he's a cb & plays for the eagles as of right now and he's very. idk. he's a dumbass and he does things he shouldn't do a lot of the time but Never On The Field. on the field he's the most annoying little bastard (especially for qbs bc for SOME FUCKING REASON he's everything everywhere all at once and they can't escape him) and wrs have a burning hatred for him (so do i). but off the field he's just this very Peculiar Personality and nobody knows what his deal is except amon-ra bc out of all the wrs he bothers every week amon-ra gets the most of it. you can imagine how he reacted when he saw his week 1 matchup last season

not a lot of history on him bc he's still fairly new but i'll just say he's my weirdest saddest wettest football guy and i love him very a lot

AND NOW. FOR THAT MOTHERFUCKER THAT WAS PART OF THE FUCKING NBA OC POST (which is so outdated by now you don't even know)

cole grAnt.

i'll take away first that he's shrunk a bit (6'10 is ENOUGH, jfc) and he's an edge rusher now which means he's the biggest menace to society the world has ever seen. he was drafted by the colts in the 6th round after a solid college season (UNDERDOG STORY RAAAAHHHHH) but they traded his ass to baltimore (eheh. hey) after an...interesting 2021 season. let me explain por favor

basically, he was tackled pretty fucking hard at one point (however hard you can hit a 6'10 dude who's built like a fucking wardrobe) and hit the ground awkwardly. @ the beginning he thought it was just a concussion and bc it was right ahead of bye week, he came back the next game. in THAT game tho he collapsed on the field and when they did a scan on his ass they found that a blood vessel exploded in his brain which caused intracranial hematoma (inner bleeding in the brain for all you non googlers). my man basically died for a second and he didn't play another game afterwards, but in 2022 he came back w a vengeance and he made joe burrow's life HELL in week 5 (and the wildcard game)

i don't know why i went THAT hard on cole's injury i just thought that i was coddling these men too hard and needed one of them to SUFFER. i mean duane already did for the duration of the 2018 season but i needed PHYSICAL SUFFERING i needed there to be BLOOD.

anyways that would be all i hope you understand at least some of it goodnight goodbye

@heyitswolfman pls accept my humble offering + apology i had some bs to deal w today so this comes late <3<3 sawry

#if this doesn't get any notes i'm deleting it next morning #you have till 7 am #now you're all familiar with my disaster children. thank u for ur attention #nfl #oc philosophies

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shellforbrains · 8 months ago

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(this was kinda a point a couple people were misunderstanding on twitter so i wrote a clarifying thread about it. so i figured i'd post that here too.)

"i am of the belief that one of the big reasons that FM goes badly is bc stolas is off his meds."

i want to expand on this point more & (hopefully) explain myself a little better. my thread about Apology Tour got way more attention (on twitter) than i could have imagined & honestly when i wrote it, i just wanted to yap casually with people, not like... write a super in-depth meta lmao.

so to start things off: i want to clarify that when i say that i think stolas being out of pills will play a big part in FM going badly, i am talking about it from a NARRATIVE perspective & as a NARRATIVE tool.

while there ARE some people out there where missing even one dose of pills can fuck with their mental state some, i know FULL WELL that this is not always the norm. i take like 4 different meds for my own mental health. TRUST me. i KNOW. for me, the most i usually deal with after missing a day of my pills is a nasty headache once i take them again. and on the day that i actually missed them, i usually don't feel very different at all bc the pills have built up in my system beforehand.

i am NOT saying that i believe one day of stolas missing his meds is going to make him go off the deep end. NOR am i saying that if stolas is struggling to communicate well that it's solely the fault of him not having his pills.

what i AM saying is that the shot of stolas being out of his pills is CLEARLY supposed to communicate something to the audience. it would NOT be included in the duet if it wasn't important in some way or wasn't going to play some sort of role. that is just NOT how writing works.

my theory is that by showing us that stolas is out of his meds & him subsequently being frazzled for the rest of the duet, they are trying to communicate that stolas is NOT going into this meeting with blitzø in the best state of mind.

and what is mostly likely to happen if stolas is going into this meeting in a not-the-best state of mind? i think that it will be him having a harder time actually communicating what he wants to say to blitzø.

stolas already isn't SUPER great with communication & him being in a not-great state of mind is only likely to make things even harder for him! which is totally understandable! but regardless of the fact that it's understandable, it will definitely play a part in stolas & blitzø's discussion spiraling!

now, onto the next part that i feel probably needs to be clarified: NO WHERE did i ever say that i think blitzø will not also be at fault for their discussion falling apart. i've said multiple times (multiple on twitter at least) that i believe there will be blame on both sides for this happening. blitzø is ALSO not great at communicating.

putting two people who aren't the best at communicating together with a touchy topic that one doesn't even want to touch with a 10 ft pole is a recipe for disaster.

even IF stolas goes into their meeting feeling 110% & is able to at least start out communicating his point EXACTLY like he wants, NEITHER of them are masters of communication. it is very likely that under those circumstances, the conversation would STILL spiral to some extent.

the point mentioned in the Apology Tour thread (& the other threads i linked in it on twitter) were NEVER meant to be taken as, "i think that FM going bad will all be stolas' fault & he's totally off his rocker bc he doesn't have his pills."

the mentions of him being out of pills & being frazzled for the rest of the duet were to point out that i was noticing something that i think will play a VERY important part of the Full Moon episode's narrative. that is all!

if you disagree with me, that's totally fine! just PLEASE don't think that anything i said in those threads were meant to play into shitty stereotypes about mental health medication or meant to sling total blame at stolas. bc that is ENTIRELY false.

the idea of Stolas publicly humiliating Blitzø in Apology Tour needs, needs, NEEDS to be looked at through the lens of their class difference.

(this is an idea that's been floating around twitter. that stolas is going full diss track in the scene the above screencap is from.

and weirdly enough, there's been some people PRAISING or DEFENDING the idea.

so i did a thread about it on twitter & decided to post it here too bc why not. slightly edited of course bc i made typos in the original lmao.)

first off: i am of the belief that one of the big reasons that Full Moon goes badly is bc stolas is off his meds.

i think that both stolas & blitzø will share some blame for the conversation spiraling out, but i think the main underlying reason that this happens is bc stolas is off his meds & not communicating his point properly.

second: i think that if blitzø DOES cross some sort of line in FM & ends up really hurting stolas, stolas is obviously within his rights to be hurt & feel bad about that shit. and especially bc he's going through his second adolescence & feeling a lot of these intense & big feelings for the first time.

him lashing out in some way or being a little petty could be in somewhat understandable. he's not perfect & has flaws just like everyone else.

HOWEVER. i do not think stolas lashing out after FM or going so far as to PUBLICLY HUMILIATE blitzø is what will happen. doing something like this would kinda be major steps backwards in stolas' character growth.

he has done a lot of work on himself over the 1st half of season 2 but he still has a long ways to go, ESPECIALLY in regards to how he treats imps as a whole.

stolas, a very powerful and influential prince of hell showing up to publicly humiliate blitzø, an imp at the bottom of hell's class system, would be... very questionable at best. and potentially dangerous for blitzø at worst.

regardless of how hurt stolas could potentially be & what big feelings he's experiencing for the first time in his second adolescence, the position & privilege he still currently holds are things that always needs to be considered. especially since a huge part of his character arc is that he's starting to REALIZE the extent of that class divide & how he unintentionally took advantage of that with the Full Moon Deal.

i REALLY do not think that stolas will actually belt out a blitzø diss track. i think that he will be using this opportunity to attempt to communicate properly what he WANTED to say in FM but couldn't bc their conversation spiraled.

but i am still writing this to try to get people to look at this from an alternate perspective.

i love stolas. i relate to him so much & i don't want to make it seem like i don't think he's allowed to be imperfect or hurt by things. i am merely REMINDING anyone that reads this that the class difference between stolas & blitzø currently still plays a large part in A LOT of aspects of their relationship.

publicly humiliating blitzø with the influence he has would NOT be a girlboss moment. it would carry a LOT of weight on how blitzø & his company could be seen & maybe even have an effect on their livelihood.

which is exactly what stolas wanted to AVOID by giving blitzø the crystal in the first place.

he is giving the crystal so that I.M.P can keep going & growing, as well as trying to put blitzø & himself on ever-so-slightly more even footing. this idea of publicly humiliating blitzø would be the exact OPPOSITE of that.

#this clarification thread came about bc i had a couple people misunderstand it yes #but also bc i am pretty sure i was getting vagued by some people #which pissed me off #disagree if you want but don't purposefully misconstrue what i'm saying #helluva boss #ramblings #long posts

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horizon-verizon · 3 months ago

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Unpopular opinion but Rhaenys is my most hated character after all the Greens, actually. I get what the showrunners are trying to do but it ain’t working. Especially when she said that maybe it started with Lucerys taking Aemond’s eye and I’m like gurl, did you forget your conversation with Rhaenyra in episode 2 ?? “Here is the hard truth, which no one else has the heart to tell you. Men would sooner put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne.” Like, I get it happened a long time ago but Rhaenys believing that maybe this all happened because of “this or that” is just insane.

Rhaenys knew that Rhaenyra’s ascension to the throne would always be challenged because she was a woman. She didn’t want Laenor to marry Rhaenyra was for this exact reason.

The machinations of the Greens began even before Rhaenyra was officially declared heir when Otto sent Alicent to Viserys’ room to “comfort” him. Even though Otto was the one to plant the seeds in Viserys’ head to name Rhaenyra, it was clearly his temporary solution to keep Daemon away from the throne. Once Otto succeeded in having Viserys marry Alicent, he believed that Viserys would put Rhaenyra aside and name Aegon, his grandson, his official heir. But he didn’t though so Otto did whatever he can to have Viserys change his mind. It became so obvious that Viserys was finally able to see through his ploys and had him removed as Hand. Like, Otto and Alicent’s supporters were determined to have Aegon be king.

No matter what, the Greens were always planning on usurping Rhaenyra from the start. Rhaenyra could have done everything right and it still wouldn’t have changed the outcome. Otto himself said it, “it wouldn’t matter if she were Jaehaerys himself born again. Rhaenyra is a woman.”

I don't hate Rhaenys most of all the cast in HotD, but neither do I respect her. My most hated is Criston Cole, I crash out whenever he comes to my mind (internally I crash out). And I don't dislike them for similar reasons--Rhaenys for how she's written and characterized, Criston bc of who he is. If I were to take show!Rhaenys as a "real" person, then she'd also be one of my least favorite characters.

The writers really wish to cling to the notion that the Dance's troubles began by the "stupidity" of Rhaenyra's rebelliousness in of itself, and I mean her having "bastards" at all. And the response to many of Rhaenys' unwise conclusions of things always gets excused as her being "complex", but she is still wise...no Rhaenys is no Catelyn Stark who has flaws and behaved un-ideally towards Jon, but neither is anyone saying she is a perfectly "wise" character either. Bk/show!Catelyn was working from an absence of information Ned deigned not to let her know about, knowing he is somehow lying to her about Jon, for how Ned effectively ragged on her own honor as a married noble lady taking care of his household by bringing a bastard into the actual abode so early into their marriage (and I mean early), etc., etc., it's been discussed. But Rhaenys has all the information, but we (not me, them, fans AND HotD's narrative) act like and call her the logical and moral center of the the entire cast of characters there. It's mind-boggling bc it's dishonest.

If show!Rhaenys should really blame Corlys, her husband, for Laenor's unhappiness AND Rhaenyra's sons not being his so she could get closer to the throne herself but then seeking to blame Rhaenyra when Laenor couldn't do his part, I'd rather this be ACKNOWLEDGED for the huge character flaw that it is. Not to mention that it isn't, as you already say, Rhaenyra's fault that the greens were going to usurp her whether she had bastards or not and claim that she does with almost everyone knowing Laenor was what we'd call "gay" (this identity, bc it is one, doesn't exist in their society).

#rhaenys targaryen (aemon's daughter)#rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#rhaenys targaryen #asoiaf asks to me #hotd characterization #hotd male gaze #benevolent sexism #hotd misogyny #hotd writing #catelyn stark #character comparison #agot characterization #catelyn stark's characterization #hotd s2 epi 2 #hotd s2 epi 3 #hotd #asoiaf

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thatonesongyouretryingtoremember · 2 years ago

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Okay but El getting stronger powers isn't bad

Aka a train of thought style rant about what El's powers might metaphorically represent. Emphasis on train of thought. I am very much not a professional, just a viewer. It may seem unrelated to the claim at first but I swear it comes around.

Basically El's powers = emotional defense mechanism.

Content warning for discussion of mental illness and some discussion of trauma. Along the lines of feeling out of place bc of mental illness and strenuous relationships.

This goes back to season one, actually. El's story is and always has been about agency. It is notable that season one is when she has the least control over her situation and that in s1, she's also shown to be ridiculously op already, flipping vans by accident, killing ten government baddies at once, and vaporizing a demogorgon at her *own expense*(which speaks somewhat to the nature of her powers atp). If you're familiar with whiterabbitgate, you'll know that the way we get to know about El's powers and develop a concept/ understanding of them is Benny's Burgers. She also has used them at this point to escape a dangerous situation, that situation being their reason for existing within her. The same can be applied to ways that people irl react to situations, though ofc in an emotional way rather than a psionic one. Then again, her emotions trigger her powers, which is not only explicitly mentioned in s2 and s4 but holds true to s1 as well. There's ofc the fact she's shown to have far more power than can be expected of such a small, unassuming literal 12yo. Tell me you haven't heard someone comment on how "strong" someone is for their age when they're struggling and dealing with huge problems. Going back to that emotional reaction, the party learns about her powers in the context of her shutting the door on then because they were going to tell a grown-up about her. She immediately reacted to the danger the boys were posing with using her powers, which they were surprised by and which Lucas was (fairly enough based on his situation) afraid of for most of S1. Then again we have El, who has used her powers to escape her previous situation and is now in an arguably safer one, afraid to tell her new companions that she is uncomfortable/ afraid (about looking for a gate) and reacting by using her powers again (fucking with the compass) which is in turn confronted as the wrong way to go about it (with little understanding on others' end of why she did, might I add) and in the pressure of the situation, she uses her powers once again against a harmless boy. This is reminiscent imo of how people defensiveness/ strength, though forged in a life which did necessitate it, can go amiss or unintentionally hurt others when misplaced due to fear in one which doesn't. The biggest indicator of this is El's next move. She runs away, certain that the party wants nothing to do with her or that she isn't good for them. Mourning her blond wig, a visual representation of the normalcy she had thus far lacked. She's thinking, "Of course I've mucked it up. It's all my fault for being this way.", completely neglecting in that moment the ways that those powers have saved her when she did need them and the fact there is a very good reason for her to be that way (defensive).

Moving on to S2 with the legend, the icon herself, Kali Prasad. Kali elaborates on how emotions affect powers, as well as providing perhaps the most on the nose evidence of this metaphor. "Your gifts are incredible," she says, "they will always see us as monsters.". Again reinforcing that "there is a very good reason you react that way"(true) narrative while also adding in some "this will absolutely result in being a social outcast" which is also a train of thought emerging from the misunderstanding surrounding her behaviors towards people, as well as one El herself maintains up through S4. Kali is someone who intentionally uses her powers aka defensiveness, pulling on anger which not only fields her powers but affects her actual worldview and perspective on interpersonal relationships. The first time we see Kali's powers, she (presumably harnessing her anger based on the strength of the illusion) TO DEFEND HERSELF from the authorities. El at this point is very clearly afraid of her own powers aka thinking she only hurts people which she also literally thinks and the former of which Kali tries helping her to October and both of which are already no longer true about Kali atp.

El is continuing her pattern of emotional reaction-> run away. It's the same but different. She messes up the cabin and then tries cleaning it but runs away. She uses her powers while attempting to help herself in Becky's house and then has to run away again due to Becky's reaction(which is literally calling Hawkins pd. Though she was trying to help and protect El, El percieved this once again as herself being in the danger of returning to her previous situation that she was escaping.). In season one, she runs away because she thinks there's no place for her in the party. In s2 she runs away repeatedly (even more than I've mentioned actually) while attempting to find the people among whom she can make herself a place, though throughout both seasons operating under the assumption that she automatically has no place already, maintaining that resemblance to how out of place someone might feel after developing reactions which are accustomed to being in danger when they leave that environment, echoed on a smaller scale by even Bob and his clown-phobia, though there isn't a logical origin of his feelings of anxiety unlike El or Kali. (Basically Bob introduced us to the concept that sometimes fear and reactions to fear vlisn't necessary even if you feel fear and that part is true about El continually running from and using powers around her family aka being afraid both of them on he own behalf and herself on their behalf)

Glossing over s3 for now, let's look at s4. Very beginning of the season, El tries and fails to use her powers on Angela. Her first reaction is to use the same things that protected her in the past, but Angela is a different type of threat. Angela feeds off of the kind of things that make El different. El is just giving her more material to work with. ("What was THAT!?") Yes, she's also literally lost her powers, but I'm not sure how that fits in YET.

El regaining her powers!! Let's start off with a simple recap: El is recovering lost memories. She is seeing some of the sane things Kali taught her (which is a whole other thing but also important here) but also GAINING NEW CONTEXT. Then we see her start to be able to use her powers again. She fends off guards and blows up a helicopter which were legitimate threats to her life.

Now, getting on to some of the meaning, this is where alot of the themes of agency sort of rise closer to the surface. Only being able to fend off(/ kill?? Idk if they're dead atp tbh) guards and not Brenner as well is the reason why she's stuck at Nina, a situation she has no control over despite the empty promises which led her there ("you can leave any time you like") (and this kinda has me thinking about how she's exhausted of being afraid. She doesn't have energy left to put into defending her heart or physical self.) No powers/no emotional energy -> no control at all. What other ways does she know how to react than how she now can't?

Then she gains new context. Brenner is reaffirmed as the badguyTM. It is after her confrontation with Brenner that she lifts up Nina and blows up the helicopter. She has once again both been defensive and gotten powers out of necessity.

Then, she gets stronger. She brings Max to life. This is because she is entering a new chapter of her life altogether. She has a new understanding, a new way of using the same powers/ strategies. S1 she is hiding and ruining. S2, she is trying to make it find a home. S3 she is escaping again if not from danger but from the type of home she's made. Then there's S4. She has Joyce and Jonathan and Will, and they love her. She has had love before, but now she has it and a new perspective. When Max dies, it is cut wrenching and sad. El used her emotions again. But when she restarts Max's heart, she isn't thinking of her grief over her first chance at a mom or her grief over Hop. She isn't thinking of the betrayal and the loss of her first chance at a friend, an ally, or watching her friend from afar thinking she'd lost having him in her life as well. She thinks of her family and her friends and times she was happy and times she was with Max and how happy gassing Max makes her. She DOESN'T think of LOSS or LACK. She thinks of HAVING and of LOVE and SUPPORT, and she's able to give. She isn't pushing someone away any more, she's bringing her closer. A new perspective. A new way of using the same powers.

Things like love aren't all-encompassing and aren't even always good, but tell me this doesn't fit the show of love+support can save the world because they help against all the hate which eats the world and creates villains. "I love you on your good days and on your bad days" would be much nicer if she felt supported both on good and bad days. Forced conformity is killing the kids.

How this will play out in S5 seems rather obvious imo. There isn't any need for some magic cure-all because that simply isn't the point. El is learning her powers literally, and metaphorically learning to bring loved ones and sporty closer to her at times she used to retreat into herself because she's learning to not be afraid, or maybe to be both afraid and accepting. The way this translates into her and Max in S5 is "psycic rescue mission". Save Max's consciousness, to save the *person* she loves. (And this next part somewhat addressed the Mary Sue comment so listen closely) and there is no way El is going into the mindscape alone. Love on its own isn't enough to save someone irl, and it only brought back Max's body, not her mind. *Supporting eachother* though, that's the message of the show and what will ultimately save Max as well as probably the world. She's somehow bringing a buddy along. El is bringing people closer with her powers, learning to accept herself and by extension, her new strength or "power up" will not simply come from having the power to rescue Max. Her new strength is having someone by her side in either the psychic heist (It'd better be Lucas I stg. Besides the whole hospital hug and then both seeing her die, the whole "full circle" thing bc he was the first friend she hurt and ran away from.) And/or in the final battle (I'm hoping for Kali but Will would be cool too.) Not to mention that if Max is tethered to Vecna's lair via the mindscape, Max will be the one doing the heavy lifting when it comes to the actually escaping part. El can find people and see them in the mindscape, but manipulating consciousness isn't a stronger power, it's an entirely different one. MAX will save herself with El's (and Lucas's) SUPPORT.

Tl;Dr:, the Big Message TM of ST is about supporting eachother. El gets stronger powers but it's a metaphor for thriving with support+love since they've previously been used in defense BEFORE the power up, and Kali literally told us that. E/umax and psycic heist. Max will save herself.

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shinjaeha · 3 years ago

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bad buddy ep 11 (thoughts)

i have never...NEVER in my life been more heartbroken by an episode of a tv show. like heartbroken doesn’t even cover it tbh. i’m so glad that this airs every friday night bc it incapacitated me the whole weekend...there’s NO WAY i could have gone to work after that ep. i just stayed up the whole night and spent all of saturday rewatching it over and over again and crying my eyes out.

i’m not even exaggerating. i don’t think i have ever cried so much in my LIFE. i’ve watched movies/tv shows where characters have died and still not been as devastated. after everything that happened, it just hit me like a train.

i know i was just saying last ep that i thought ep 10 was my fave, but i really think this one has taken its spot. i know the ending/preview has made this ep somewhat polarising, but all it did for me was make me love it even more than before. i felt every single thing that pat and pran were feeling down to my core, and it hurts like hell, but that, to me, is the power of a good piece of media.

that’s prob also why this is the toughest ep for me to write about. it just destroyed me so much emotionally.

i’m gonna preface this by saying that i DO think that pat and pran broke up with one another at the end of this ep (this is my current stance on things, but who knows, i could be completely wrong since i know bbs previews can be misleading...the only way we’ll know for sure how everything plays out is on friday). everything i write here is under the assumption that the break up really did happen.

i know so many of us had a knee jerk reaction to the end (believe me, i did too). but the more i rewatch the ep, the more clear it becomes to me that they ended things. plus, i don’t think that pran would go back to lying to his parents about this (he couldn’t even lie to uncle tong when they were running away). not when a lie was what started the whole family feud in the first place. besides, what would that achieve except making their parents even angrier at the both of them if they were discovered again? they’d just be living in constant fear like before...only it would be even worse now bc their parents would most def have them on a tighter leash than previously.

i don’t think pran would lie to his friends about it either (ep 12 preview) since there wouldn’t be a point to that. remember how upset wai got that pran never told him about pat in the first place? it doesn’t make sense to me that they would backtrack on that and make pran lie to his friends all over again. unless this is some kind of fake out like what they did with the ep 9 preview with korn...

not to mention, in ep 10 they publicly declared their love for one another in the ‘proposal’ scene. why would they go back into hiding again? it would just be a rehash of ep 7 all over again, which wouldn’t make sense to me narratively (esp with only one more ep left to go).

and most importantly, it would give the emotional resonance of what happened at the end of ep 11 much less impact if the break up wasn’t real. there’s a reason so many of us have been hit so hard by it. it seems sudden, but upon every rewatch, it makes more and more sense to me. this is the kind of ep that NEEDS a rewatch (multiple ones at that imo) bc things only really start clicking into place once the ending has given us context, like one of those movies with a plot twist that only gets better when you rewatch it from start to end again with the ending in mind.

take the very first scene in the bus, that already gives us a lot of the information that we need to know on where the two of them stand. pran KNOWS they’ll need to go back at some point, and he knows that his mum will never forgive pat’s dad (he doesn’t believe there is any hope of reconciliation). pat, on the other hand, isn’t ready to accept this yet. he’s still in denial, ready to escape it all and start a new life with pran (as he too believes that reconciliation between their parents is not on the cards). this ep is very clear in showing us that, although pat might be ready and willing to leave his family for pran, that’s not something that pran is able to do. it just takes a bit longer for pat to accept since he wants it so badly. pran, to his credit, is also trying really hard not to burst pat’s bubble since he wants to spend as much time with him as he can while he still has the chance. in the end, this whole trip is really just them running on borrowed time.

i don’t think this necessarily means that they KNEW they were going to break up here, but it feels like it’s already implied in the narrative (since going home is essentially code for ending things...and the fact that they aren’t on the same page about this from the beginning alludes to how this will play out). i really think this trip was them trying to make things work, but realising that they both won’t ever TRULY be happy even if they were to stay there together just the two of them (particularly pran, as he would miss his mother way too much).

i mentioned in my last post that pat is the hopeful, idealistic one and pran is more of a pessimist and a realist, and it’s never been more evident than in this ep.

but it also shows the depth of their love despite all their differences, and it’s one of my fave things about this ep as a whole.

i will never be over how pat’s always trying to comfort pran as best he can without showing him how torn up he is inside too :((( always trying to lighten the atmosphere when he sees pran's mind start to wander towards the worst of the ‘what if’ scenarios.

they played basketball in the novel...based on pat’s aim, i can see why that was changed to rugby 😭but i really do appreciate how light these next few scenes are after the intensity of ep 10′s ending/the beginning of this ep.

the sim card scene omg. pran knows pat SO well 😂 pran’s so good at figuring out pat’s tricks (and being the one to trick pat instead). it kind of reminds me of how he tricked pat in the line id scene in ep 1.

but i realise now that this also seems like it’s foreshadowing that they can’t truly let go of their pasts and escape. in the same way they’re unable to discard their sim cards, they’re still connected to their families and can’t break those ties completely.

the last time they were in this village, they were denying that they liked each other (even though they very clearly did)...now they’re shouting about how much they like each other at the top of their lungs. it’s the relationship development for me!! :’)

it must be so freeing for them to come back to the first place where they didn’t have to hide their relationship (at least when pran’s friends weren’t around). to come back to the place where their past history doesn’t matter bc no one knows and no one cares. i love that when pran told uncle tong the truth, he didn’t lecture them about it, just offered them support and a place to stay. he’s so great.

pat is still set on this being more of long term stay at this point, so it’s interesting to me that he’s the one that brings up that this is a honeymoon for them. calling it a honeymoon, though romantic, means that it eventually has to come to an end. it’s like he already knows deep down what the outcome will be, but he can’t admit it out loud yet. pran has already accepted this (it’s why he wonders if their parents are looking for them). pat hasn’t, so he pushes those thoughts away, refusing to talk about anything but the two of them for now. that’s why he makes pran play the game with him. he doesn’t want pran to dwell on those thoughts either...wants him to live in the present with him (but pran is an over thinker, and the game is only temporary...he can’t help but think about and miss his parents no matter how hard he tries to stay in the moment with pat).

i think it’s fairly obvious how junior’s struggle with going back home with his mother mirrors pat and pran’s struggle with going back home to their parents too.

the fishing montage scene is so cute though. just the two of them having fun. they’re GLOWING..i guess that what love does to you, huh. also, whoever styled the both of them in this scene did an a+++++ job js. the lack of buttons on pat’s shirt is giving his sleeveless look a run for its money 😂

the cooking scene reminds me of the conversation they had with junior in the truck in ep 6. pat’s talking about pran with junior indirectly again, only now it’s no longer about his ‘friend’, but his ‘lover’ instead. adorable.

but here we get yet another instance of pran missing his mother as he talks to junior about what a good cook she is while making her special sauce for them :(

pat making pran play the guitar again bc he knows pran misses it (despite him constantly saying he’s quit) though. i love that he reinforced their honeymoon rules here to let him know that this is a safe space. he can do what he wants without having to suppress his feelings the way pran is so used too ;;; and how could pran ever turn pat down?? (impossible).

something i find interesting about the scene when they’re talking to junior about how he wants to stay in the village (despite his mum’s objections), is that pat says “don’t believe everything she says, adults aren’t always right”. this indicates to me that they know that their parents are in the wrong in regards to their relationship (and it was wrong of them to pitt both of them against one another from the start). pat would, of course, feel especially strongly about this seeing as his father was DEFINITELY the one in the wrong in terms of the scholarship situation. but i do think it shows that they know their parents are wrong about this in general...and in the end, they didn’t end things bc they thought their parents were in the right in any way.

likewise, in the next scene when pran and junior’s mother are talking, when she mentions that he won’t have a future in the village and she’s glad that her mother didn’t allow her to stay in the village when she was young too, i don’t think that necessarily means that she’s right. i think it just implies that most parents want the best for their children. it doesn’t mean that it’ll always turn out that way, but parents are human too. they make mistakes, get clouded by their own judgement, which sometimes leads to them forgetting that their children are individuals with their own feelings and agency too.

that’s not to excuse any of the trauma or pain that they can give their children when their actions are too controlling (eg. pran’s mum). but, in the end, most parents think that what they’re doing is what’s best for their child’s future. it’s obviously not always the case, but i also kind of get it.

no child needs to forgive their parents for any trauma that’s been inflicted on them, but there are some that do, and those feelings are valid too. pran clearly loves his mother very, very much, and that’s something i understand down to the depths of my soul. just bc someone has hurt you doesn’t mean you automatically stop loving them.

on top of that, pran’s prob feeling especially guilty after their fight. he didn’t know about the whole scholarship issue before their fight, and he hasn’t seen his mother since finding out about it.

and honestly, they’re both still so incredibly young, and still very much financially (and emotionally) dependent on their parents. independence is something that they need to learn, and it’s something that comes with growth and experience.

when he asks junior’s mum if she feels lonely when he’s here, it’s the closest he can get to asking his mum the same question. the poor boy just really misses her :(((

back to pat and pran again and, as always, i’m in love with the way that pat tries to lighten the mood whenever he sees pran get too in over his head. they’re the perfect balance to one another. pat brings the levity, whilst pran keeps him grounded. they really challenge each other in the best ways.

pat is actually SO resourceful. he can charm his way into anything 😂 he’s just so spontaneous. i’m too much like pran...i could never.

love shot scene and pat making pran burp with him is hilarious, like pat is the ONLY person that can make pran do things like this (remember when pran was more than ready to eat that wonton that pat spat out of his mouth just bc pat challenged him to in ep 2?? they’re too competitive for their own good omg).

let’s talk about the way pat stares as pran here, heart eyes on display for everyone to see, as he looks longingly at the stage where the busker’s playing guitar. pat is whipped, enamoured, smitten, enraptured, captivated by pran...just every descriptor you can think of when it comes to love...that’s pat 😭 he. is. in. love.

pran’s happiness has always been pat’s top priority, which is why i should have seen what was coming from this one scene alone...

they get away with their differing stances on this trip for a little bit, but sooner or later they have to confront it. it’s been obvious since the start that the both of them have felt differently about what this trip means (to pran it’s only temporary, to pat he’s still thinking of it in the long term), so it was only a matter of time before they ended up butting heads about it.

to pat, seeing pran want to contact his mother reads like pran doesn’t want to be there (with him). so it hurts pat to feel like he’s alone in this...like he’s the only one that wants to be there.

this is clearly not the case bc pran loves him, he’s just torn bc he misses his mum and wants to talk to her. but they both know what that means for their ‘honeymoon’. they know that the minute they talk about their parents/bring up going home, then they’ll have to start thinking about what that means for their relationship (and it’s unspoken, but they both know EXACTLY what it means).

pat is trying so hard to make pran feel as accommodated and happy as he can while they’re in the village (eg. constantly cheering him up, getting him to play the guitar, getting them a permanent job). he wants for pran to be content, living here in the moment with just him, but it’s just not enough. it’s something that takes him a while to realise/admit, but being here in the long term will never make pran completely happy no matter how hard he tries. and it’s only once pat realises/admits this, that he knows that means they have to go back home.

he’s still not quite there yet though, hence the reason he gets mad.

okay, but when pat was about to throw that can onto the beach i had the same reaction as pran like sir, this is a ZERO WASTE VILLAGE what are you doing?????

i do love a sulky pat though :’) we don’t get to see him like this very often...and i love it when pran’s the one trying to make up with pat. the parallel pran mentions about how pat was the one that was trying to make up with him the last time they were there is actually so apt and adorable.

imo one of the best things about pat and pran’s relationship is that they can never stay mad at each other for longer than an entire scene. i was a little worried at this point bc, in so many other dramas, this would have been the moment where they had their big blow up and broken up with each other...instead it ends up being a misdirect. just this minor clash of heads due to their differences that’s easily dealt with. their fights are always resolved so cleanly. they get mad, cool off, and then talk to one another instead of letting things fester and build up into something bigger. it’s SO satisfying to watch them deal with things bc of how high the level of communication is between the two of them.

i know i was just talking about how pran wants to go home, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t want to stay too. he really, really loves pat. he would do anything he can to make sure pat is happy too. that’s what is so beautiful about their relationship. the reciprocity and care. he knows how much it means to pat that they stay here and take the job...and he wants to prolong their time together for as long as he can as well. so even though he misses his mum, he swallows down that feeling for now bc he knows that taking the job will make pat happy.

“i can be anywhere as long as i have you” 😭 pran doesn’t express his love in words all that much (more in actions), so it really does hit different when he vocalises his feelings like this to pat.

they’re honestly so. cute. it makes this ep hurt so much more.

oh god, okay. KISS SCENE. this scene is so outstanding to me in every way.

my fave part of this whole ep is basically when this scene starts until the very end. it’s just spectacular, and my heart is already in knots even just THINKING about the last two parts of this ep.

when they talk about their aspirations before the kiss, this is really important bc i think it’s at this point where pat starts realising that the both of them can’t stay here if pran wants to achieve his goals. notice how pran’s answers (interior designer and musician) require him to finish his studies (and also likely require financial support from his parents), but pat’s don’t (if he just wants to work in his own family’s business).

for pat, he could never be the reason for pran giving up on his dreams. pran’s mum’s future was ruined by pat’s dad, and he doesn’t want to echo what his father did to pran’s mother. he already feels guilty enough by association for what his dad did. it’s the clearest thing in the world to me that he would never, ever take that away from pran. especially knowing how much damage and trauma that caused both their families. all it did was lead to anger and resentment, and he won’t let history repeat itself. he loves pran way too much for that, and one of the things he wants most in life is to see pran succeed in whatever he does.

this scene feels like it’s pat slowly coming to the realisation that they can’t put off going home any longer. he knows that he has to let pran go BECAUSE he loves him. pat’s monologue on why he likes pran is just so thoughtful and sweet. with the end in mind, something about it reads to me like it’s already a goodbye of sorts. like he’s reminiscing on everything they’ve experienced (good and bad), and coming to terms with how much pran means to him. making sure pran knows it. the emotions are so bare.

and then, of course, the KISS. this kiss is sooooooo beautiful and languid. compare it to their rooftop kiss in ep 5, when there were a mix of built up emotions erupting out of them. back then, it was still more of a test on pat’s part, and it was desperation and franticness on pran’s part. like he was trying to hold onto the moment before it escaped him.

this kiss is a world of difference from that one. this kiss is a kiss between two people who are madly in love with one another. unlike rooftop kiss, it’s deliberate. the way it goes from slow and sweet at first, like they’re taking their time, to hungry and wanton after they take that breath and look at each other?? like they’re gonna make the most of all the time they have left just the two of them. they’re gonna make every second count.

i also love how authentically drunk the both of them look. despite all their differences, this is something they both align on completely. they feel the exact same way...full of love. pure love. and their flushed faces (esp pran’s!!) just show how drunk they are on the alcohol, as well as how intoxicated they are by their love for each other. the openness of it all just makes my heart twist every time i watch this scene.

but it’s in the little details, like how pran’s always the first one to open his eyes during their kisses, that also remind me of how he’s always thinking ahead. while pat, with his eyes closed, is always thinking in the now. this is one thing that hasn’t changed, just like in their ep 5 rooftop kiss.

i REALLY like that pulled away shot we get of them just before the kiss scene ends, where they’re the only ones lit up surrounded by the darkness. it perfectly encapsulates their entire situation. their love for each other being the only beacon of light amongst all the forces around them threatening to darken it.

i truly still cannot BELIEVE that we got a scene of them spooning in bed. the one thing i wanted most was for this show to have a scene of them cuddling, and then they gave me the softest, sweetest scene in the whole world!!!!!!!!!!

and just the fact that it was pran that was snuggling into pat?? sniffing him (you know he loves pat’s smell just as much as pat loves his, he’s just much better at hiding it), and then kissing the nape of his neck?? this is too much for me 😭 i’m as down bad as pran. i can’t believe he got energiser bunny pat tired out...must have been a wild night.

but in all seriousness, i love the simplicity of this scene. just two people in love...nothing more, nothing less. pran asking pat whether he was good in bed, and then asking him to rank him out of ten, is so cute (and SO on brand for how competitive the both of them are...i should have known this would be the case even in sex). pat teasing him a little before giving him the ten, and pran looking SO smug about it...i love them more than words could ever describe.

THE FOREHEAD KISS. i could genuinely cry about it for days (and literally have).

they really tried to scare us with pat waking up without pran being there and i wasn’t fooled for a second bc i knew pran would never just up and leave pat like that...like no way, it would never happen.

the morning after scene is when i think it all clicks into place for pat fr. the moment he sees pran with the guitar turning to look at him, blinding smile on his face...THAT’S when pat knows what he has to do. this is the only way he ever wants pran to look/feel. he loves pran’s face when he loses, but he loves it the most when he wins, and we all know pat’s stance on this (”when i have a lover, i always let my lover win”). the first time i saw this, i noticed how wistful pat looked, and i couldn’t place why he looked so sad here. it made so much more sense to me after i rewatched it bc this was the moment he knew they had to go back home. i know p’aof has said that this is his fave scene in this ep and i can totally understand why. it makes my heart ache in the most breathtaking way possible.

as junior’s whole journey in general mirrors what pat and pran are going through, when he chooses to go back to bangkok with his mother, i don’t think it’s a surprise to anyone. we know that pat and pran will follow suit too now that pat’s accepted that they can’t stay in the village forever. and pat seeing pran’s longing face as he watches both mother and son leave, further emphasises to me that pat has already made his decision. for pran’s sake, he can’t and won’t prolong this any longer.

i think most of us have established at this point that the red shirt scene is the two of them breaking up. imo the genius of this scene is that, while i could tell something was up the first time i watched it (there’s this melancholy feeling tied to pat’s words even though he’s smiling and saying such lovely things...and pran is literally crying), i only pieced things together after the ending was revealed and i rewatched this ep again. like even when i hadn’t fully understood what had happened, the second i saw pran tear up, i was tearing up too...so by the time i DID understand what was happening, i was a complete mess. even now, though i’ve rewatched this scene countless times already, it still gives me a lump in my throat. it still feels like someone is squeezing my chest.

there’s just so much sacrifice in this ep. pran sacrifices his feelings/desire to go back home for pat. by agreeing to the permanent job (and proving that he means it by being proactive in getting the uniforms for the both of them), it’s all to make pat happy (even if being here doesn’t truly make pran happy himself). he’s doing this bc he loves pat. he misses his mum too, sure, but those two things aren’t mutually exclusive.

but pat’s perceptive, we know this. and he’s been picking up all the signs that pran’s unhappy, big and small. and, like i’m constantly reiterating in every one of these posts, pat can’t stand to see pran sad...therefore he knows that he needs to sacrifice their honeymoon/time together so the both of them can go back home and pran can see his parents again.

pat knows that by forcing pran to stay in the village with him, pran will do it bc that’s just who he is, always putting the feelings of the people that he cares about first...but in forcing him to do that, pat would just be acting like everyone else in pran’s life. imposing the same expectations on him that pran’s had to grow up with his entire life. all it does is lead to pran suppressing his true feelings as usual, and keep any resentment he might have within him growing more with each passing day. and pat is the last person in the world that would do that to pran bc he knows all too well what that’s like.

there are so many dramas/movies that TELL me that two characters are in love, but this one SHOWS it to me. in every look, action, word...pat and pran are deeply in love with each other (have only fallen more in love with each other during this trip), and i believe it completely. that’s why this scene, this breakup, hurts so immensely.

to me, this is what true love is. it’s not toxicity or stupid misunderstandings for no reason, it’s just two people that are always willing to make sacrifices and put the other person and their feelings first. two people that are always willing to compromise. to communicate. this is love in its healthiest form. the both of them are so consistent in their emotional maturity.

and specifically, what i love so much about this break up is that neither of them even need to say the words out loud. it’s in between the lines just like the lyrics of pran’s song for pat (”but you and i know the meaning between the lines”). they weren’t on the same page at the beginning, but now they finally see eye to eye...and it’s not a “let’s break up”, but a “thank you for trying to make a silly guy like me happy. thank you for never leaving me. thank you for fighting alongside me. thank you for making me happy.” (thank you for loving and supporting me, you’ve done well and i love you) sort of a break up. it’s pat making sure that pran knows just how much he loves and appreciates him. and there’s something that’s simultaneously more beautiful and heartbreaking to me about their end being framed this way than if it had been made more explicit than this. it’s this heartbreak that permeates through everything.

“from two people who can’t be friends, without knowing it, we become two people who can’t be just friends. i wrote this song for him” i’ll be thinking about this until the end of time. these words will live on within me FOREVER ;;;;

pat declared his love publicly for pran in ep 10, and pran’s dedication at the beginning, as well as finally finishing and singing the song that he wrote for pat, is pran’s own way of publicly declaring his love for pat. it’s quieter, but it’s on brand for pran (whilst last ep’s declaration was def more pat’s style). like pat wanted, he gets to experience pran’s first step in his career as a musician with this performance (whether he decides to pursue it later down the track or not)...and it’s a song crafted specifically for HIM. pran wrote a song about their entire journey up until this point. if i were pat, i would feel so incredibly touched too. it’s esp significant bc pat has always been there to encourage and support pran in his music, so to have two songs composed by pran in his honour is so profoundly heartfelt and meaningful.

it was sooooooo masterful of them to have made the intro the chorus this whole time. i’m kind of annoyed that it was spoiled for me before watching this ep bc it would have absolutely blown my MIND if i had found out while watching pran perform 😭like the fact that we’ve been hearing “our song” literally every single ep????? it gives SO MUCH more meaning to the intro. like it really is their song...it’s been threaded through this entire series since the start, and now every time i rewatch eps, i’ll be reminded of that. genius. also, it’s just such a great song?? it makes me emotional every time i hear it now.

THE DAMN MONTAGE. if there’s something that will break down ALL my defences, it’s a montage...esp one showing the growth of their love since they were kids :((( this wave of nostalgia hitting me as though I’M the one that’s lived through all of these moments...like they’re telling my own love story through these scenes.

oh god, i’m just glad that at least inkpaa are happy (they only had like 3 seconds of screen time but my poor, battered heart NEEDED that...and more importantly, i NEED them to remain happy for all of ep 12 too PLS). and waikorn?? idk why but i’m never expecting them until their scenes together come up again 😂 it really does show how far everyone has come since the beginning though...like so many things have changed.

i like how they use uncle tong’s environmental activism to represent pat/pran’s relationship. i think it’s clever of the writers to intertwine that with their story. when p’tong says “you might think that one man can’t change the world, but i want you to know that this world can’t change someone like me either”, it mostly just proves to me that, even with everything pat and pran have gone through (and will go through in the future), their love will remain unchanged. at this point in time, it feels futile to them bc of everything opposing their love (pat’s earlier “i don’t think one man can change the world”), but i really do think that that will change with time. right now, they’re both so young, they both have so much growing to do...but eventually, there’ll come a time where they’ll be able to properly fight for that unchanged love...bc if there’s one thing this ep made me sure of, it’s that they won’t stop loving each other despite the forces around them (their parents) pulling them apart. they’re just not quite there yet, but i believe it’s all part of their character/relationship development, and they’ll get to a point where they understand p’tong’s words fully and why he keeps trying even when things seem impossible.

i mentioned before how pat and pran’s love felt like a beacon of light in the darkness, and i think this break up might have dimmed it, but it’ll never be fully extinguished. this is actually one of the reasons i’m almost completely certain we’re getting a happy ending. i know we’re worried, but pat and pran have always found each other. fate has always brought them together, so i just know that fate will bring them together again once more.

i really, really love the editing during this whole sequence tbh. from the song and the montage playing, to p’tong’s words, to the alternate ending scenario, then back to reality again. it. broke. me. into. pieces.

seeing the two of them standing there all happy (during the 'what if’ scenes) juxtaposed with the reality of their situation????? that HURT. i had a feeling that the beach scene in ep 6 was going to come back in play at some point since it felt like it was left open for a reason, and we finally got to see why. all those imagined scenarios are something that they want so much but that they just can’t have right now :(((

you know what hurt me the most though?? pat’s stayed so strong and positive this whole time in pran’s presence, never letting pran see him cry, EXCEPT this scene at the end bc he just can’t hide his devastation anymore. pran’s very likely been anticipating the end since the beginning (perks of being an over thinker), so he’s more prepared for it than pat is. pat, on the other hand, has never thought about them coming to an end until this ep. all that foreshadowing was right, he IS the heartbroken one...

actually when pat started crying here, this was when it hit me what had happened. obviously, the ep 12 preview kind of confirmed it for me, but this was the moment where everything clicked into place for me. it’s like i was waiting for the other shoe to drop this entire ep...and then it did.

my personality is too much like pran’s, always expecting the worst so when it happens i’m prepared. when i watched this for the first time, despite all the sweet scenes, it always felt to me like there was a cloud hanging over them. this perpetual feeling of bittersweetness in the air...and i couldn’t place why until the very end when i saw pat’s tears, his “let’s go home” and pran’s “good luck, buddy”...THEN the final puzzle piece finally slid into place. and THEN i burst into tears.

the brief scene when pran finished playing and we saw a tear slide down pat’s face as he smiled just hammered what happened into place for me even more.

(it always gets me that when they first left for their trip, pran was the one that was bawling his eyes out...now that they’re back, it’s pat that has tears rolling down his face)...

so. the ending/ep 12 preview has obviously divided opinion on this ep and i completely understand why, esp if you were sure this one was going to be a happy one...and that pat and pran were gonna beat the odds and fight their parents. however, i think i was personally always a bit doubtful that would happen. in the tags of my last post, i mentioned that i thought something was going to go down at the end of this ep (and go down it did)...it just didn’t happen as dramatically as i thought it would (though it ended up being a lot more painful than i expected).

and i think it’s just a very personal thing. it makes you think about what you would do if you were in their position...and for me, when it comes down to it, i think i would do exactly what pat and pran did. i already mentioned that i’m too much like pran, and it’s true. personally, i don’t think i would ever be able to give up my family for someone i loved, no matter how much i loved them.

does that make what their parents are doing to them okay? absolutely not. do they deserve so, so, SO much better than this? 1000%. but i also understand this decision. there’s a discussion to be had for filial piety, which is obviously something that’s very ingrained in asian society (and is way too nuanced and complicated for me to even begin getting into)...and, yes, it can be toxic. but it’s not an easy thing to shake away when it’s a way of thinking you’ve grown up with your whole life. their parents fucked up, but it doesn’t surprise me at all that pran still loves and prioritises them. it’s also just consistent with his character, and how he puts his friends and family first before his own feelings. it’s consistent with pat’s character too, as he would never force pran to fight his own feelings. and they both know that currently (esp considering that pran’s mother only just revealed the truth about the scholarship in the previous ep), everything is still very raw. there’s really no hope for reconciliation...at least for the foreseeable future.

since pat’s dad is the main reason both their families are in this mess in the first place, it makes sense that he’s less forgiving of him than pran (whose mum was the one that was initially wronged). it’s easy to question why pran isn’t choosing to fight for their love, but based on how he broke down in the last ep after his fight with his mother, i don’t think he would have been able to bear fighting with his parents anymore about pat in his current state. he can’t even tell his mother that he’s still playing the guitar. he’s just nowhere near ready to handle the constant opposition that they’re sure to get. not to mention, the support of his family is something that he needs. pat would have paa at the very least, but pran is an only child and has no one else but his parents.

i don’t think that means that pran loves pat any less, but they have different priorities and ways of thinking. we know that pran is realistic and always thinking about the future, whilst pat is impulsive and prefers dealing with things in the present instead of thinking ahead. pat might feel that love is enough for them now, but pran knows that it isn’t. not in the position they’re both in atm. sometimes love just isn’t enough, especially if the timing isn’t right. they’ll both never be completely happy if they’re constantly at war with their parents, and esp if they’re still dependent on them as they so clearly still are.

most relationships, no matter how healthy, are heavily influenced by external factors and the environment around them. people that are madly in love with each other break up all the time bc of things they can’t control. pat and pran both know this, and i think that’s why they made the choice to break up. instead of letting their parents break down their relationship, and growing resentful at each other for it, they chose to end things when they were most in love BECAUSE they were in love. like a good memory. that means nothing can mar it or turn it toxic. and i don’t think either of them want to be the reasons that their relationships with their parents are fractured either.

this is the most painful type of breakup imo bc it’s mutual and done in love. it’s done with the both of them knowing what it means and accepting the heartbreak. it doesn’t need to be dramatic bc that would mean more energy spent on fighting/arguing, and less time spent just loving one another. they didn’t choose to make this a fight/disagreement, which is so different from all the other events that have happened to them that WERE dramatic (their relationship being revealed on stage by wai, their parents finding out about them and the fallout). it just further highlights to me how different their relationship is to all the other ones on the show. other than the external factors, their relationship has always been relatively drama free, and above all, loving. i mean even from the get go, they were supposed to be enemies, but they never truly were.

would it have been nice if pat and pran had run away together? had decided to defy their parents and fight for their love right then and there? yes. but this is honestly the most realistic scenario to me. i know that BLs are an escape, and that most of them have that very specific BL fantasy element to them (bad buddy is also no exception to this bc we can see those elements in parts of it as well), but there’s always been a sense of realism weaved into all of p’aof’s BL dramas...there are always parts that feel so authentic and real, like his own signature, so the direction the narrative took here isn’t really a huge shock to me in the end.

i’ve seen some people say that this is them letting their parents win, but i personally don’t see this as the case at all. i see it more as them giving in for now, picking their battles, and building up their strength to a point where they are better able to fight for their love and win for real (their parents are the final boss, after all). by not choosing each other now, they’re choosing each other and their futures first. also, goodbye doesn’t mean goodbye forever...and this is DEFINITELY not goodbye forever. at least this time they got to give each other a proper send off, and it wasn’t an abrupt transfer like the last time they parted.

which is why i actually don’t mind that there seems to be a time skip in the next ep?? i don’t tend to like time skips very much, but i can kind of see the purpose of one here. it means that they’ll have matured more, established themselves in their respective careers (so they won’t feel like they’re getting in the way of one another’s dreams anymore), and they won’t be as dependant on their parents once they’re older.

besides, the LONGING????? they’ll have had years to yearn for each other (and i love yearning). all of those factors make me feel like they’ll be in a much stronger position to resume their relationship and beat all the odds against them.

of all the eps on the show, THIS is the most beautiful one imo. the power of this ep is that it seems happy and sweet on the surface, but by the end you realise that it’s been an infamous cursed ep 11 all along, only you don’t know it until it’s over. the ending puts the whole ep into perspective. it’s like you’re watching it with two different lenses, and the rewatch is what recontextualises everything. it’s like p’aof subverted the ep 11 trope by making this a break up ep so subtle we didn’t even REALISE it was a break up. i think that’s why i love this ep so much, aside from how beautiful the romance is. i love when a show can throw me off and make me rethink everything i had thought initially (i love a good plot twist). and this was just so exquisite in its heartbreak bc it focussed more on their relationship and love than the actual break up itself.

also, if anything, the fact that this ended as angsty as it did has just further convinced me that we’re getting a happy ending (not to mention, it’s a p’aof drama so that makes me even more certain). yet, even though i think pat and pran will be fine at the end of this, it STILL leaves me with a gaping hole in my chest every time i rewatch it. amazing.

anyway, i think i’m finally done. my emotional stability is def still riding on ep 12...i can’t believe there’s only one more ep left and bad buddy will be over. i’m genuinely distraught over it and idk what i’m going to do with myself once this show is done... 😭

#bad buddy #not this almost being 8k jesus........#this has NO business being so long but i also wrote so many notes about this ep it confused the hell out of me #bc my mind was just SO scattered after watching (and rewatching) this #this is genuinely the most difficult recap/thoughts post i've ever written so pls excuse how messy it is...#like i just feel like i got my thoughts out esp poorly this time bc i'm still so !!!!!!!! about this ep (and i cried so much writing this)#like you don't understand how much i loved this ep okay #regardless of what happens in ep 12 (happy or sad) i'm gonna be sobbing my eyes out...i don't want to let this drama go...#the withdrawal is real and it isn't even over yet :(#text

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tumblingghosts · 5 months ago

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finally back to properly reblog this!! i am SO here for all your clemensia thoughts-

SCENARIO 1

ooo breakout!! let's go!! once a trio, always a trio- nothing says bonding experience like a rescue mission + fighting against the system to help a friend

i love felix leveraging his name to turn away gaul! it might not be a permanent solution if 'the ides of march' is anything to go by, but the ravinstill name could keep her at bay for a while at least

clemmie sharing more with felix and nia!! knowing what's to come with gaul keeping her position & how things were made worse after coriolanus got into power after an apprenticeship under her is a heck of a motivator to let people know...

about the clemmie and coryo confrontation-

staying friends with coriolanus feels like a challenging one, especially if coriolanus keeps being all himself. but if anyone can pull off the charade, it's clemmie! maybe with felix pushing back against gaul (and the games by proxy), clemmie can get coriolanus on her side with stopping the games by leveraging guilt? ("lucy gray saved you in the arena, didn't she? don't you think she deserves to go home?" -- of course clemensia knows that lucy gray won the 10th games, but in coriolanus's mind the odds are slim) but it will def be a challenge bc of the bombing & academy students that have died already

clemmie calling him out is definitely a risky one & a surefire way to get a spiteful coriolanus mad over clemmie 'betraying' him by blasting him like that, but a pretty effective way to limit his influence before it really has a chance to properly take off (maybe even with the bonus of putting doubt in sejanus's mind about trusting coryo if they ever reach the point of peacekeepers? i can't see him breaking off the friendship, but clemensia (previously a good friend of coriolanus) speaking out like that will create an impact for sure)

i could see it as a bonding point between reaper and clemensia too. he asks about the scales and she not-so-subtly rants about it, and reaper (maybe) mentions slamming coriolanus in the truck because "you don't like that guy? me neither. seemed like an arrogant snob from the start >:/" -- just like that, clemmie has a friend and a way to (try to) connect with the other tributes!

(omg the trio being such a menace that they had to drift apart "for the good of panem" lol -- but they're back again and ready to be menaces once more. good for the tributes tho!)

also, clemmie giving reaper her scarf to survive the snakes?? i love that idea to bits -- reaper and lucy gray being the final two, and regardless of the victor, neither she or coriolanus can deny cheating bc the handkerchief is found and the scarf is obvious. i wonder what happens to them then... that might be the point that felix or nia uses the snake incident to point fingers at gaul (saying clemmie would "never" have done this if it weren't for emotional distress from the snakes or smth)

alternatively, if coriolanus doesn't cheat for lucy gray, then reaper has gained a victory & there will likely be less leniency about clemensia's cheating. she could attempt to say something like reaper took the scarf from her and she was unable to get it back, but that would require throwing reaper under the bus which clemmie wouldn't do. so she takes the punishment (or maybe her parents/felix/nia are able to intervene before it goes through?) and has to alter her plans to topple gaul & end the games...

SCENARIO 2

clemmie's parents having her back <333

endymion going straight to president ravinstill + potentially felix also going to his great-uncle to bring up similar complaints + hector dovecote haunting the narrative might just be enough to tip the scales away from gaul, at least somewhat...

coriolanus really doesn't stand a change against a vindictive dean highbottom and angry protective parent endymion dovecote

(rip political future, endymion would probably be willing to blow the snow family financial situation right out into the open if coriolanus tries to bother clemmie any further -- not directly, of course, but that info will make it's way out there. wrench in the plan might be sejanus sticking out to help coriolanus, but with the "official story" of coriolanus's demerit, maybe not...)

REAPER BLURB

aww reaper subtly turning to cover for clemmie!! i wonder if he ever brings up what he saw later on when clemmie takes a more active part in mentoring her, or if he just quietly starts to put the pieces together when he notices the sunglasses and her long sleeves (or yellow eyes and scales if she isn't hiding it in this situation) - either way, it's a motivator for him to accept clemensia's scarf if that's how events play out. he might not understand why she's giving it to him, but he's figured enough to realize that the capitol is far more messed up than he thought, and that he keeps it with him like she asks.

thank you so much for your response!! i've grown so fond of the troublesome trio + endymion dovecote + reaper because of you <33

i was thinking about aut viam invendiam aut and how clemmie wakes up in the hospital thinking the scales have returned - but what if that’s exactly what happened?

she goes back from post second rebellion back to eighteen, but it’s after the snake bites. she finds herself back in the section where they kept her hidden away from the other students, where no one visited her. the hunger games haven’t started yet, but the tributes are already in the capitol. but first things first, clemmie is getting the heck out of there - she’s not sick with the flu, and she’s lived for too long to simply take what gaul is doing lying down.

maybe she goes to felix and nia? they don’t need to know about the time travel - the scales marring her skin are more than enough to make them furious on her behalf. and she has a chance to do things better with reaper, even if she’s been sent back too late to save arachne or avoid the rainbow snakes.

or maybe she goes to her parents - endymion is not going to be happy about being told what had happened to her. and how does she interact with coriolanus?

Ahhh!!!! This is like super cool!! I love it so much. I feel like both ideas have so, so much potential :)

Oh, I agree, she definitely wouldn't be hanging around the hospital any longer than she has to.

For plot reasons, maybe she comes back the day she'd snuck out to find Coriolanus. I imagine security must have been more lax that day with the Arena having exploded and all.

This time, she definitely doesn't make the mistake of stopping by Coriolanus' room.

Scenario 1: Felix & Nia

Even if they aren't as close as they once were, that doesn't really matter when your friend shows you the scales that are now growing on her.

It's not the flu, that much they agree on.

It's an unanimous decision to smuggle her out. Even if they haven't heard the story. All they know is their friend is in danger and someone has lied to them about her being 'sick'.

I think the situation would be rather bit similar to The Ides of March - definitely not letting Clemmie out of their sight. Agreement that the snake bite is a major punishment for a white lie. Possible Gaul confrontation with Felix using his name to turn the doctor away.

Clemmie might be a lot more open to using what happened to her to her advantage - rather than just keeping it under wraps between Felix & Nia.

Unsure if she'd tell her parents.

Definitely a meeting between Coriolanus and Clemmie of some sort.

2 possible ways their confrontation could go:

Clemmie plays the long game. She 'understands' he tried to visit - they remain friends (in Coriolanus' mind). All the while, she's plotting something, anything to get the tributes out. She's seen the future, she knows the games cannot go on. If she cannot stop this one, at the very least she'll try to save Reaper.

Clemmie calls him out - we're told she's well-liked by faculty, staff, students. She uses that against him. Clemmie has known him long enough to know what makes him tick, and once he does, she twists the situation in a sympathetic light to her. (She doesn't necessarily even have to mention the snake bite. It can be a lie that she makes up.) Nobody is feeling bad for Coriolanus. Not even the tributes (then again, most don't like him to start.) This one has more potential to save the other tributes.

Knowing the trio they probably manage to stir up some sort of chaos (simply by existing as a trio) to get the tributes to live (+ possibly ending the games) - this is the reason why their friendship drifted apart over the years. It was TOO much chaos haha

ALT: If the games still go on and she hasn't been able to get the tributes out yet, a possible (but very crazy) way she attempts to help Reaper survive -> Remember the snakes? Assuming it's the same snake tank that she put her hand in, they know her scent. Reaper doesn't understand why she gives him her scarf and makes him swear he'll wear it at all times - he does so anyway.

~~~~

Scenario 2: Endymion Dovecote

More scheming in this one + perhaps an explanation as to why Coriolanus didn't want Clemmie as an enemy.

Clemmie doesn't bother with her classmates and directly runs out of the hospital. Assuming she's got her book bag with her + uniform, she changes. Otherwise, she might steal a change of clothes from somewhere (scrubs?)

A facemask to hide her condition – there are plenty around. If she's wearing scrubs, people likely don't give her a second glance.

Ends up home without being caught and scare her parents with her appearance & her explanation.

There might be a few twists to the story of why she exactly agreed to lie about writing it, but who's going to know? It's really Coryo's words against hers. And needless to say, her parents will take her side over his.

Having come back from post-2nd rebellion to 18 - Clemmie needs immediate change, not something gradual like if she went back age 8.

Her parents are beyond pissed that this happened under Gaul's watch.

You don't survive a rebellion with your family intact without a few secrets / tricks up your sleeve... I wouldn't be surprised if Endymion has a few favours owed to him.

Endymion doesn't even bother with Gaul, he goes straight to President Ravinstill about this matter.

A similar conversation to the one in between Felix & Pres. Ravinstill fallaces sunt rerum species but with Endymion instead of Felix- Pres. Ravinstill agrees that this 'incident' was definitely a step too far (esp. for a white lie) but his hands are sort of tied. Gaul is too important of an ally for him to just let go.

Endymion remains frustrated and angry at this. "An apology will not make my daughter whole." - Endymion

Depending on Hector Dovecote's existence and importance to him, Pres. Ravinstill's frustration with Gaul varies. Dealing with the Capitol elite is ALWAYS a political headache. Don't even get him started on the Arena explosion and dead/hurt mentor count so far.

Casca Highbottom may or may not have gained an ally in despising Coriolanus.

Endymion may or may not be a vindictive man when his child is the one in harm. Very cutthroat.

Coriolanus is NOT going to be having a good time.

Casca is probably itching to use this to get Coriolanus expelled, but then he'd have to explain things to colleagues and Endymion doesn't want his daughter's matter aired out. So Casca goes with the next best thing, he finds some vague excuse to give yet another demerit to Coriolanus.

Probably like: "Another demerit due to your failure in reporting what happened and putting your classmate in danger."

(Just one more and this kid will be expelled! - Casca is just waiting for the next slip up)

And if the faculty asks about the demerit, he explains it in a way that paints Coriolanus in an unflattering light, it's toeing the truth and just enough that nobody speaks in defence of Coriolanus.

Doesn't even matter if the games continue or not. Do you guys remember the bills and notice of eviction that the Snows had in TBOSAS? I can see Endymion speeding up the whole process so they get evicted a lot quicker.

Of course, you can't trace anything back to Endymion. All he's doing is nudging things along. Speed up the bureaucratic process.

The Snow name is an old one, but all there is left nowadays is an aging Grandma'am who's not always in touch with reality, Tigris and Snow. Not much political power to worry about.

~~~~

And because you know me...

Reaper - a blurb that could take place before Clemmie escapes + finds Endymion

There's only two peacekeepers around. And one of them is too nervous to shoot. But as tempting it is to run, it would mean leaving Dill behind and he can't. Reaper's considering the merits of running with Dill when he makes eye contact with a girl huddled in the shadows. She looks familiar, but from where? Then it hits him. It's his mentor, the one who hadn't shown up today. Probably for the best considering the explosion, but now that he's really looking at her, Reaper is wondering if that's still the case. It's the way she presses herself into the shadows, the fear in her eyes that has him pretending that he can't see her. He shifts ever so slightly so nobody else can see her either. As he and the others are herded into van and back into he enclosure, he can only pray that she remains undiscovered.

~~~~

Oh dear this got a little long...but I hope you enjoyed!

#tbosas #time travelling clemmie #clemensia dovecote #felix ravinstill #iphigenia moss #endymion dovecote #coriolanus snow #backpacks asking

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