#All other non-zionist jews you see are either:

[therainingkiwi]

I am a Jew.

I did not know that civilians lived in Palestine until i was probably sixteen. SIXTEEN. You know when I first learned that Palestine existed? Oh, probably when I was three or four, in Hebrew school.

I was literally taught that Palestine is a nation of terrorists. I thought it was basically one giant army base where Hamas planned attacks, rather than a real country with hospitals and cities and schools. Again: I did not know that civilians and everyday non-terrorists lived in Palestine until I was a fucking TEENAGER (and even then, it was despite my synagogue's best efforts, not because they changed the shul curriculum or anything).

I'm not saying this because I'm proud. I am DEEPLY ashamed to have once believed this. It's why I focus my anti-Israel activism around the Jewish community in particular: I do not trust myself around Palestinians because I fear I haven't rooted out my prejudices enough for them to be safe in my company. I'm not sure I ever will.

But you need to know how intense Israeli propaganda is. You need to know WHY so many people can't distinguish between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. Israel has spent lots of time and money on its international image. They've spent possibly even MORE time and money to smear Palestine into the mud. Israel relies on the world seeing their colonization as valiant Jews holding steadfast against evil Islamic terrorists. Without their indoctrination, they don't have power.

I hope Palestine rises higher and freer than Netanyahu's worst fucking nightmares.

I was asked why there's a zionist claim that the Palestininian identity is not legitimate. And I think it's important to understand why Palestinians as a whole are seen as a threat by Israel. To understand why it's not about Hamas.

The claim is that the Palestininian identity was made up in order to push us out. Palestinian existence is a threat to the legitimacy of Israel as a country.

I was taught in school that Palestine was empty when we got here. They used a Mark Twain quote. It was a barren land full of swamps and some nomadic people (Beduins) but as soon as we wanted to come here, the awful antisemitic Arabs sent people to settle here before we could to take up the space. I was in school in the settlements though. I was taught the most extreme version of this.

Another version of this is that Palestine was never its own thing, they're just Arabs the same as all Arabs from the surrounding countries. So they could just... scooch over and give us the space, please and thank you. In Israel no one uses the term Palestinian. If I do, people roll their eyes and dismissively go "Arab." An Arab is an Arab. It's a way to strip away their unique identity and blend them in with the rest to say they could always move to Jordan, or Syria, or Lebanon, and it's all the same to them.

It's a way to make Palestinian existence by itself into a malicious plot to deny us a homeland.

Because if Palestinians exist as a distinct group of people, we aren't the only ones with a connection to this land. And you don't create an ethnostate by sharing.

You still hear echoes of this mentality. Why won't all these Muslim countries take the people of Gaza as refugees? That's asking why they won't let Israel make its ethnic cleansing more neat and convenient. Yes, refugees should be taken in and given shelter. But this question shifts responsibility away from Israel. Palestinians shouldn't be forced suffer either ethnic cleansing that leaves them as refugees, or a genocide.

[elder-millennial-of-zion]

When I say I’m a Zionist, all I mean is that I want a country that already exists, that has existed for 75 years, to continue to exist. Not the current government, just the country itself. That shouldn’t be a controversial stance.

It’s not normal to need an entire movement around wanting an existing country to keep existing. It’s not normal that there’s an entire movement dedicated to the complete destruction of one singular country and no other.

Even if you insist on comparing Israel to the most evil regimes; Nazi Germany, apartheid South Africa - which you shouldn’t because it’s false and antisemitic, but even if you did - the Nazis were defeated, the Nazi occupation of other countries was defeated, but Germany is still a country. Apartheid ended, but South Africa is still a country. British colonies have fought for and won independence one by one, but Britain is still a country. In the US, slavery ended, segregation was struck down, but the US is still a country. It’s only Israel where people pose the ridiculous question of whether a country should still be a country.

And to everyone who says “I don’t think the US should exist either,” bullshit. You’re not doing anything about that. There is no movement to abolish the United States, and last time there was, that movement was comprised of the racist slave owners.

The fact that the argument over Israel’s existence has been normalized when there is no such argument about any other country in the world, is ridiculous. It’s insane that non-Jews can’t talk about Israel the way they talk about every other country, that they can’t criticize its government, military, or policies without jumping right to “and therefore Israel should be destroyed.” They say this about the one Jewish country and no others, and they really pretend they don’t see anything wrong with that.

Not to mention that abolishing a country is completely impractical in ways that have never occurred to them. Like there’s a sign on a border gate that says “Israel” that they can just paint over to say “Palestine” and that will be that.

Step 1: replace all the flags

Step 2: ???????

Step 3: utopia

[elliescoolerwife]

Nazi dumbfuck

Being against murder and genocide is not a nazi ideology but go off I guess.

If anyone is nazi, it’s zionists.

Lets take a look:

In particular, the Nazis embraced the false idea that Jews were a separate and inferior race. - Israeli politicians have called palestinian children the “children off darkness” and israelis “the children of light”. Also, they’ve called Palestinians animals and not humans and therefore should be treated as such.

the Nazis referred to Jews as a “parasitic race.” - there is posters around Israel and on the internet created by Israelis where they compare palestinians to parasites - saying that they’re parasites to the israeli soil and needs to be removed.

Nazis wanted to separate Jews and Aryan Germans. They tried to force Jews to leave Germany. Not only do Israelis see Palestinians as animals, they’ve displaced 2 million Palestinians. Do you have any idea of what’s going on in Rafah rn?

Those whom the Nazis identified as non-Aryans (including Jews) were persecuted and discriminated against. Israelis have murdered 700.000 palestinians and removed their access to water, food and medical care. Israelis have been protesting by sitting in front of vehicles with medical equipment so gazans don’t get help. Israel have been dropping white phosphorus for 10 years so Palestinians either 1. Get burned. 2. Get killed by the water they drink that contains that white phosphorus. PS! White phosphorus is illegal but not when israelis do it🤡

the Nazis carried out forced sterilizations of certain groups whom they considered inferior.. lets swich our focus from Palestinians and lets take a look at the black people in Israel, lot of them ethiopians, that have been forced to sterilize themselves because israelis don’t want “black” in their jewish line. They want to keep it “clean” and not let black genes, especially not when those black people have converted and aren’t “real” jews. Do you remember who also wanted to keep their race clean? Does it sound familiar?

The Nazis believed that races were destined to wage war against each other. For them, war was a way for the Aryan race to gain land and resources. Specifically, the Nazis wanted to conquer territory in eastern Europe. They planned to remove, dominate, or murder the people who lived there. They believed that Aryan Germans should control this land because they were the supposed master race. Israelis believe that they are Gods chosen people and therefore owns that land. They have removed, dominated and murderer Palestinians who live there to take that land from them, claiming they are the superior race because God chose them. Therefore, they have every right to take that territory from the indigenous people.

Nazis also falsely claimed that all Jews were an existential threat to Germany and that they had to be destroyed. Israelis claim that this “war” will not be over until total victory - meaning until every Palestinian is dead or removed. They celebrated when north gaza looked like a desert, because the “parasites” who was a threath to Israel is now gone. And now Netanyahu is telling these parasites to leave Rafah, the claimed “safe space” or else they get murdered there too. And lets remember that Israelis don’t discriminate. They murder all Palestinians! Muslims, Christians, jews. All of them. And anyone who supports them.

And don’t even dare to say the Hamas because Israel never cared about Hamas nor did Hamas exist when this started. They have claimed that they need to murder children in order to prevent them from growing up and joining hamas. Children. Women. Elderly.

Bold of you to ask this anonymously, though.

[a-very-tired-jew]

Thank you again for putting anon on for me so I could send this. I didn’t want the harassment that would happen otherwise if I put it on main.

So I am the person that sent STA the call out ask that got Cecil/Spot harassed. I felt bad about it and sent a follow-up ask a few days later to STA to say so.

I said that I was a non-Zionist Jew who had been following this whole thing since STA made their first blog months ago, the contradictions in their posts, and the hard and fast change they did.

STA never published it.

I waited a week or so and sent another one and STA still didn’t respond.

They instead doubled down on their tete-a-tete with Spot. It’s almost obsessive that they think any and all negative asks are from them.

I will admit in my follow-ups I did say that it doesn’t matter if they, STA, don’t consider themselves antisemitic, the people they are friends with are. The blogs that they reshare from and interact with are some of the most antisemitic blogs on this site. Many of them are well known tankies and there’s no denying their antisemitism, it’s been well established. Many of their “friends” on here have a long history of harassing Jews. There is a history of them going into the jumblr tag and Jewish communities and harassing Jews. It’s well documented and their past actions speak for themselves.

I’ve even seen everyone’s favorite Jew hater Spaceship, aka Trudge, as a frequent flyer on their blog.

I will also admit that I put in there that I remember when they tried to present as an Israeli and got caught using a translator to speak Hebrew. That they changed their story to being an Israeli living in CT, and then when that didn’t work out, they arrived at their current iteration of an ethnic Jew living in CT. I don’t believe them to be any of what they claim for a second. The whole debacle of them pretending and getting caught shows that they’ll lie and obfuscate for their goal(s).

But STA won’t share an ask that outs them, lists their past actions, or clears the air regarding Spot and them. They also won’t post anything that calls out their fanbase and friends. They’ve made a name as the token anti-Zionist Jew in their antisemitic clique and had a post about how they won’t address any other form of antisemitism except their Zionism=antisemitism position.

I did also send another ask to them to clarify what a pogrom actually is since they denied that Amsterdam was one. It’s like your artist friend, they don’t actually have an answer and instead will either delete or ignore any asks that want them to clarify their positions.

Since I sent that ask and looked at their blog, I noticed that they really only respond to certain types of anons. They are either praising them, are extremely negative and attack-y so as to bang the “look at how bad the anti-Zionists are!” drum, taken out of context screenshots, or simple enough that they can dismiss the claims with their talking points and sources that agree with their bias.

You’ll notice any ask they get that is trying to address antisemitism that is within the anti-Zionist movement is extremely short and not exactly well thought out. You’ll see ones that are full of insults and curse words attacking them that STA gets to point to and go “see how bad the Zionists are?!”.

You know I’m not a conspiracy theorist or one to jump to conclusions, our work does not endorse that kind of thinking, but it does seem suspicious that those are the only ones they will respond to.

And their friends and followers eat it up. STA, IMO, is disingenuous in their intent and their actions, and is a really bad representation of an anti-Zionist Jew in all respects. If they are one at all.

An IRL friend asked me to throw anon on so they could post this. I only throw anon on for folks I know or ones who ask me to do so. They didn't want to send it to Spot, vents, or anyone else since they, you know, actually know me.

I've had STA blocked for a long ass time so I haven't seen this pattern of only responding to certain types of anons. But taking a quick look? Yeah, seems like it.

Who knows, maybe they will actually post them now?

I doubt it (and they were likely deleted, but who knows?). And we're all very well aware of their social circle. It's a who's who of antisemites that they turn a blind eye to because they're all "anti-Zionists". It's old hat at this point, but I thought my friend added some insight into some of the shit going on.

Unfortunately they've recently broken containment and I've seen their shit across my dash. I saw that they went after applesauce a few days ago, took a screenshot out of context, and them and their followers harassed applesauce even after there was a clarification and correction regarding the post. Targeting a Jew over an out of context screenshot is antisemitic harassment, plain and simple. They keep saying that they were going after a Nazi apologist, then why not show the entire thread where applesauce clarified and apologized for what they said? Why show the singular post out of context unless the point was to harass a Jew you inherently didn't agree with because suddenly their words didn't convey what they were actually trying to say in a singular occurrence?

But they definitely fight antisemitism right?

They're also going after transmascpetewentz because they have the "audacity" to actually take into account the full context of what applesauce said and clarified. We all know what went down, what they were saying, and what they had to clarify. To which that entire thread had apologies and clarification as we would expect.

But again, we're talking about an account that rabidly goes after Zionists, or those they've labeled Zionists, and gets their followers to harass them. We're talking about an account that has only focused on "Zionism = antisemitism" and done everything it could to push the "Zionists = Nazi" narrative in some way or another.

They're definitely stopping antisemitism though.

I also saw their stuff going after cree-n-jewish (because once containment is broken it seems like the algorithm likes to keep it broken) and I can't help but shake my head at the hypocrisy. An outgroup person going after an in-group minority member by finding members of the larger minority group who agree with them. It's disingenuous at best and reminds me of all the times we had to combat anti-science misinformation online and people would be like "Well I found this one group of doctors who agrees with me so I'm right" when talking about vaccines or the 3 out of 97 scientists who disagree with climate change.

I have a pet hypothesis that they're not Jewish at all, but actually a goy who made a fake account and pretended to be their concept of Zionist all those months ago. The likely intent was to post what they thought Zionists would post and get people to agree with it. Then they'd turn around and go "See! Look how evil they are!" and have screenshots as "proof". Problem is their concept of Zionism was actually Kahanism, everyone called them out for it, as well as called them out for their ever changing origin story (Israeli to Israeli ex-pat to Jew in CT, which was fun to watch them backtrack and retcon).

Then suddenly overnight they became a raging anti-Zionist that fully embraced antisemitic rhetoric and has continuously justified it "as a Jew"? Yeah, something is off there.

There was absolutely no "hey, I'm reading these books or writings that stand opposed to Zionism and I'd like to talk about them with the greater Jewish community". There was no discussion on the subject at all. It was a sudden about face that was entirely outside of the norm, and if you know anything about our people and culture it's that we like to talk and discuss things ad nauseum amongst ourselves. The fact that there was nothing like that and their journey from Kahanist to anti-Zionist happened overnight is extremely out of the norm. Especially as they went from posting Kahanist shit to raging antisemitism and justifying violent terrorism in the blink of an eye (part of why they got their first account nuked).

So yeah, all of that plus the refusal to post your anons to them (even the ones asking for clarification and explanation) and other patterns of behavior leads me to my conclusions about them.

[xclowniex]

from a realistic point of view, i dont see how zionism doesnt lead to non-jewish palestinian death or at least repression. if you have a state which has it enshrined in its founding documentation that it is For "Jewish People" (israel has been carefree about fucking over people they dont consider to be Jewish in the right way). two state solution doesnt even solve it since the assumption is just to have another israel and shove all the people they dont think count as jews over to palestinian state and pretend like they didnt just make an ethnostate

The reason you do not see how it doesn't lead to palestinian death is because on a fundamental level, you do not understand zionism from a jewish perspective.

Jews can and have, taken DNA tests and proved that we are descdant from cannanites who lived in Southern Levant. There is history too proving our orign from the region. A lot of jews were forced out due to various empires wanting to kill us, however some jews remained in the region.

Zionism is simply about self determination for jews as one of the indigenous peoples to the region. It does not inherently imply that palestinians are not indigenous as you can very much have two indigenous groups in a region, eg Moriori and Maori for example, both are indigenous to land which is part of New Zealand, but are two different groups.

I'm not going to say that no zionist ever wants harm to palestinians as there are, however the majority of zionists want a two state solution or a land for all solution (which is different to a one state solution of israel or palestine).

Indigenous groups do deserve self determination. This applies to all indigenous groups world wide. One indigenous group gaining self determination does not inherently harm another group of people, indigenous or not.

Ideologies can be implemented badly and not mean that the inherent concept is bad. For example, communism. No country has ever sucessfully implemented communism as they never leave the transition phase without something going wrong. Saying that zionism always hurts palestinians is like saying that communism is inherently genocidal because of China and Russia.

There are plenty of zionist solutions which does not harm palestinians which are deemed as ideal solutions by zionists, such as versions of a two state solution and land for all solutions.

Israel is also not an ethnostate. The percentage of israeli jews is almost equal to those who are New Zealand European in NZ, yet no one calls NZ an ethnostate. There are plenty of other countries whose majority population is around a similar percentage of 70% - 75% of a country and that country does not get called an ethnostate. Either, all countries with the majority ethnicity percentage above are ethnostates, or the threshold percentage needs to be higher for a country to be an ethno state, or if its only Israel who is an ethnostate and other countries with similar percentage are not, then you hold an antisemitic belief as the only jewish state should not be an exception for purely being a jewish state.

I would also like to touch on yoru usage of "non-jewish palestinian".

Whilst palestinian jews do exist (and I do know one personally), they are a very small minority of palestinians. It is illegal to be jewish in Gaza and the West Bank, so there are no rabbi's there for palestinians to convert. So I am very confused as to what you mean as there are no palestinian jews in palestine, and those that exist in the diaspora are a minority in both aspects, so whilst they deserve recognising and care, your wording is very strange and dogwhistle like. The reason I say dog whistle like, is because it is a common dog whistle for people to say that palestinians are the real jews and who we refer to as jews today are fake jews, which is obviously antisemitic.

[curtwilde]

i have a genuine question, what is arab colonisation? Is it a real thing? The context where I have read about it was a bigoted islamophic hindutvabadi page so I don't know if it's true or just part of their larger lie. Do you have any readings, sources on it?

According to Marriam Abboud Hourani, Arabization is a sociological process of cultural change in which a non-Arab society becomes Arab, meaning it either directly adopts or becomes strongly influenced by the Arabic language and culture. After the rise of Islam in Hejaz, there were a series of conquests in the Middle East and North Africa, after which the Rashidun Caliphate, the first Muslim empire was established. Arab culture spread through the Middle East and North Africa along with the spread of Islam, and in some places pre-Islamic religions and cultures were violently suppressed. These days, most Islamic countries have reconciled elements of their older traditions with Islam. The older religions survive among minorities in some places - Christians, Kurds, Ezidis and Mizrahi Jews for example and are still oppressed under some Islamic fundamentalist countries, like Iran.

Often, the term Arabization or Arab colonialism is used interchangeably with Islamic fundamentalism. On paper they mean entirely different things. However, in reality Islamic fundamentalists revere Arabic culture because the Quran was written in Arabic and events of the Quran are set in Arabia. The difference between the two is a slippery slope and I will let you decide on that.

The term colonization is such a red herring these days and is used to fit a lot of problematic narratives. It is a favourite with zionists, which is probably where these hindutvadis picked it up. And if you come across it on the internet I'd advise you to re-examine the source as they may have an anti-Muslim bias. That said, Islamic fundamentalism is very much a real thing and I wholeheartedly believe that any form of religious fundamentalism, and especially those fundamentalists that try to gain administrative and jurisdictional power for themselves, are a problem. All government and administrative bodies, across the world, should be compulsorily secular.

Now, in the context of South Asia, Arabization in it's strict meaning of the word, has nothing to do with our geopolitical history. Our Muslim rulers were all of Turkish, Afghan, and Central Asian origins with no connection to Arabia. Even culturally, elements of Indian Muslim culture can be traced back to Persia rather than Arabia; and linguistically the Persian influence on Hindi/Urdu is obvious. The term Arab colonization is often used by hindutvadis to mean the spread Islam in the subcontinent but of course they see the Islamic world as a monolith and I doubt they have the reading comprehension to know the difference even if they bothered to look it up.

Books:

The History of the Middle East by Peter Mansfield is a great place to start.

Islam, a short history by Karen Armstrong - very quick read + unbiased take on the Arab conquests.

The Arabization of Islam by Al Mubarak Nadir Shabaz

History of North Africa by Charles Andre Julien

From the holy mountain: a journey among the Christians of the Middle East by William Dalrymple

The Kurds: a contemporary history by Patrick S. Clancy

The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon for a general idea of colonization.

Mutuals if you have any other recommendations please feel free to add.

[sethshead]

When you actually listen to the student protestors' vision, you find that it is substantively identical to that of the even more radical, violent protestors outside. To define Ashkenazim as inherently the oppressors of brown people is both bigoted and historically ignorant. To call Zionists "Babylon swine" is a slur against all Jews. To permit Jews into your encampment and allow them to celebrate Passover (a holiday about our return to the homeland of Eretz Yisrael, which ends with the words "Next year in Jerusalem") is not indicative of seeing us as equals when you also call to strip Jews as a people of the right to self-determination and self-defense. If you would see the seven million Jews of Israel expelled or fall into the clutches of a Hamas that has promised to slaughter or enslave every Jew they get their hands on, then you will ill upon the Jews. If you wish to see Jews as a vulnerable minority throughout the world, with no dedicated safe haven, in living memory of the Holocaust and the ethnic cleansing of a million Jews from the Arab world, then you wish ill upon the Jews. If you do not care what happens to the Jews of Israel if Israel is suddenly no more, then your callousness makes clear that you are no friend to the Jews. If you cannot understand why the Jews (and many non-Jews) of Israel will fight to the very last (a nuclear-tipped last, I should add) to defend Jewish self-determination in Eretz Yisrael and think a few more Oct. 7s, a few more rockets, more dead on both sides, more rejection of a sovereign Palestine within a two-state paradigm will bring about the fall of Israel, then you don't much care about the Palestinians, either.

In light of this, the Jews in that encampment look less like welcome guests than like dhimam, tolerated only so long as they accept their subject, subordinate status and praise the rulers who have power over them. Don't forget: even after accepting subjugation and onerous taxation as the price of dhimitude, the Jews of Khaibar were still expelled by their Muslim overlords. No Jew is safe depending on the beneficence of others for the simple right to live.

I appreciate Powell's article: unlike anything you read in the New York Times, where concerned Jews at Columbia are balanced by anti-Zionist Jews on a one-to-one basis, this article at least implies, meekly, that the Jews allied with the encampment are a distinct minority, and that the mainstream Jewish student body is very much on edge among their anti-Zionist peers and professors. That is a situation that should never have been allowed to happen.

[aelinfireheartgalathynius]

The discourse about Sarah J Maas being called a Zionist is giving witch hunt vibes at this point. Nothing I've seen has been conclusive at all. Just because she's a Jewish woman who went on birthright doesn't mean you should loudly denounce her as supporting genocide.

I am a Jewish woman who is pro-Palestine — so, not a Zionist — but who loves her Jewish diaspora culture. I have anti-zionist and non-zionist Jewish friends who went on Birthright because it's a free trip abroad. I know Jewish people who are staunch Israel supporters and I have Jewish friends going to pro-Palestine protests. Jews are not all one thing, and in fact it's ingrained in our culture that we have NEVER been one thing. There are Jews of all races, of all levels of religious belief, across the political and socioeconomic spectrum, scattered across the world.

If I were a semi-public figure (I say semi because Sarah has been clear that she is not the one posting on her public accounts and she doesn't have much interaction with fans outside of tours) people would probably have loud assumptions about me being a Zionist because I am publicly Jewish, I was a Jewish Studies minor in college, and I used to work at a synagogue. Guess what? I'm not a Zionist. I donate to UNWRA monthly, I do my clicks for Palestine, and I do my best to support with what I have. As a multi-disabled person that's all I can handle right now. If I were a semi-public figure I don't know if I would feel comfortable posting anything publicly either, because people are vicious and terrifying creatures. Sarah has a husband and child. She had gotten threats about fucking ship wars. This is so much more intense than ship wars.

Making these loud assumptions and calling for boycotting SJM, commenting on her social posts even though she isn't the one reading those comments — this is what antisemitism looks like. I know those of you who are angry at Sarah won't want to hear that, or will say that 'everything is antisemitic now' — which is a refrain that should raise red flags since it's the same argument other people use about transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc. You're the good guys, you support Palestine and you're anti-genocide and so on. But using stereotypes about an ethnic group to make assumptions and harass an individual of that ethnic group is not a good look even if you're convinced you're doing it for a good reason. Take that energy and put it toward spreading awareness, contacting politicians, attending protests, maybe even sharing messages from public figures who have posted publicly.

I understand that a lot of non-Jews (and a small number of Jews) are saying that it "has nothing to do" with Sarah being Jewish, it's just that she hasn't "used her platform." I implore you to consider why you are seeing and sharing such anger toward this one (fairly private) Jewish woman and not toward other prominent authors, especially those who are more active online, who have also not spoken out. Do some soul-searching and many of you may find that because Sarah is Jewish, you feel that she owes you a public stance more than other people. Because she is Jewish you feel confident enough to make an assumption about her views and post publicly about these assumptions. That is antisemitism at work. That is why this feels like a witch hunt to me, and why it is upsetting to watch.

As a reminder, I am pro-Palestine. I am not posting this to defend anyone. I am posting this to remind everyone that Jews are not all Zionists. Jews are not all one thing, ever. And deciding you get to hand down judgement on a Jewish person who has not shared their views publicly is antisemitism. It is deciding that you can assume negative things about Jewish people from afar. It is deciding that some antisemitism is actually okay — good, even, if you think it's warranted. I understand that people have other qualms with her writing, but those are not tied to her Jewishness, they're tied to her doing things like using the name Illyria and Illyrians for her ACOTAR series, etc, which is the kind of thing other fantasy authors have done over the years. Doesn't make it good or right but it certainly doesn't have anything to do with Palestine or Zionism.

If you disagree with me, please do not send hatred into my inbox. I am asking you to interact with this post thoughtfully. If your disagreement is going to be an explanation of how Jewish people owe the world every ounce of our energy, health, safety and lives, please step away and take a breath. I do not share your opinion. I have great admiration for those risking life and limb, risking jobs, risking arrest, to support Palestine. However, not everyone should be *required* to do all of those things, especially if you're disproportionately expecting those larger actions from Jews, thinking we "owe" it to the world.

Also, I want to be clear: This is not really about whether Sarah is a Zionist. It's about the fact that we don't know, and you cannot pretend to know. Most of the arguments I'm seeing are making a lot of assumptions, and that is the part that makes me uncomfortable.

If Sarah ends up being a Zionist, I still stand by this post, because it isn't about defending Sarah, it's about my hurt and disappointment in seeing people make assumptions rooted in antisemitism, assuming someone's views based on Jewishness and little else.

[uboat53]

All right guys, in light of the current situation in Israel and the discourse around it in the US, we need to have a talk about Evangelical Christians. Consider this a SHORT RANT (TM).

EVANGELICALS AND ISRAEL

Christian support for Israel in the United States actually didn't start from a bad place. Initially it was the position of mainline and liberal Protestants that Jews needed a safe place to flee from intensifying persecution in Europe and that this would be a part of a broader rapprochement between Jews and non-Jews.

Since the establishment of the State of Israel, however, and particularly since the Six-Day War in 1967, American Evangelicals have become the primary supporters the Zionist conception of Israel. In particular, they view the Jewish dominion over the historical Israel as a necessary step to the rapture and the end of days.

PROPHECIES

Long story short, the Evangelical interpretation of the prophecies of Revelations and those surrounding them is that the Jews need to take control of the holy land and then be destroyed in order to bring about the end times. The problem with this, though, is that the people who destroy the Jews will, themselves, be destroyed, so they can't do it directly.

Hence, the current plan. Israel is to be encouraged to expand, making about as many enemies as is possible, then, at some point in the future, any military aid would be pulled, allowing the prophecy to be fulfilled without Evangelical Christians themselves being the "bad guys" of Revelations.

ACTUAL JEWS

You can see that this plan isn't great for actual Jews or for Israel itself. In fact, it's even worse than it sounds. According to the prophecy, all Jews in Israel will either convert or be destroyed, a cultural and religious genocide by any definition.

You'll also notice that this doesn't do much for Jews outside of Israel. In fact, the Evangelical interpretation of the prophecy seems to be that all Jews need to go to Israel in order for this to work, so their support of Israel goes alongside efforts to push Jews in other countries out.

RAMPANT ANTISEMITISM

All of this leads up to the fact that many so-called "Christian Zionists" are also raging anti-Semites. John Hagee, the founder and chairman of Christians United for Israel, believes such anti-Semitic nonsense as that Adolf Hitler was born from a lineage of "accursed, genocidally murderous half-breed Jews", that the persecution of Jews throughout history is justified by Jews' refusal to embrace Christianity, that the Holocaust was good because it pushed Jews to Israel, and that the anti-Christ will be "partially Jewish".

Other prominent and popular Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are likewise on record as holding abhorrently anti-Semitic beliefs such as the belief in a worldwide Jewish conspiracy that is cited by any number of those who commit atrocities against Jews in this country.

CONCLUSION OR TL;DR

Evangelical Christians can speak all they want about their "unswerving support of Israel", this support does not in any way change the fact that a huge amount of them are virulent anti-Semites. They do not support Israel as a refuge for Jewish people or Jewish people in general, they support Israel as a trap into which Jews must be forced so they can be destroyed as part of their apocalyptic vision and, meanwhile, their zeal for all Jews to go to Israel leads them to embrace and encourage violence against us elsewhere in the world.

These people are not friends of Jews, they are as much enemies as those who wield rocket launchers and automatic weapons against us. Remember that the next time you hear them speak of their support for Israel.

[wewebaggit]

I am already not paying for Netflix and will not support ST either, especially after Shawn Levy's open Zionist approach.

Look, no one is saying they cannot support their family in Israel. But what they are doing is basically sitting in the US and calling for an open ethnic cleansing against Palestinians, while cherry-picking their words and spreading false information. As we speak, Gaza is basically being bombed to death, an entire place has its water, electricity and basic resources being taken from them. It may be easy to post random shit on your accounts with millions of followers while living in rich houses. But the reality doesn't match that and both Levy and Noah should have been more sensible and learned better before posting dumb shit on your accounts.

You are free to hate whoever. N I'm not even gonna bother to defend them cuz it's not my job nor do I base my politics off of teen celebs. That being said I've read his statement that is just as passionate and devoid of the complete understanding of everything of it like other impassioned posts. That's what passionate posts do. They appeal to an emotion. I'm not sitting here expecting him or any other jewish celeb to say yaaaaaas Hamas. Nor am I gonna raise my brows if they speak for the Jewish side of things.

The statement that people read and ran with saying he's calling all Palestinians terrorists is as inaccurate as whatever false info y'all are accusing him of spreading. I do not blame him nor do I defend him and him is a placeholder for any Jew celeb, cuz I do not base my sense of right or wrong on what they're saying. I've never once felt the need to publicly anonymously denounce the people I don't agree with because I don't usually find myself overcompensating for anything.

Israel - Palestine conflict is not new. What's new is this one actor who everyone's expecting to say politically correct shit (which in his mind he might be doing just that 🤷‍♀️) and I believe that expecting this in and of itself is stupid and an easy way to pass the blame and do nothing at all to look good.

Palestinians right to self determination is not affected by what a nobody says. Nor is Israel's stance on continuing on with its policies of decades. The fact that people are busy harping on this one thing cuz apparently the only source of knowledge is insta and therefore maybe it seems like it's a must to react to whatever is seen on insta. Well, I cannot relate.

The fact that you or whoever if there are multiple anons find it necessary to approach me on anon so that I can be derisive towards him and that somehow it is the most important thing to discuss here - well, it is laughably easy to post while sitting in your home with food, water and power while others are wont to dangerously struggle for them. See how that works? My post is and has never been about Israel Palestine at all and was always in response to anon (and fandumb) who's been at it for a while.

Are we truly gonna say that he hasn't always be hated upon for things he's done and not done? Is there a comparable backlash against other celebs? That being said you now stop liking a celeb. Good for you. What does it achieve? Were you following them for their immense knowledge and wisdom of politics and geopolitical conflicts? Then I suggest you do not mourn the loss.

Also the fucking hypocrisy of everyone on this site to wake up like the Undertaker when it's israel/palestine (not even out of much real love for the people affected let me remind you as the argument is centered around fucking Noah schnapp/jewish celebs of all the people) and then no reaction to what happens in third world non-glamorous countries. (The glamorous here is Israel to be clear). And before you say well it's a reaction to what he said. Well there have been reactions based on what he should say or hasn't said, too. So like I'm judging y'all atp. Like what's the issue? Your heart bleeds for victims or does your mouth salivate over taking someone down with that pitchfork?

Why should I engage in an argument that's not based on what is says its about but the subject matter is celeb not the thing celeb is talking about. That being said I won't even be talking about the thing the celeb is talking about because there's shit happening in the world all the time and I have my opinions on all of them and I choose to keep them to myself lest people read what's not there and call me a genocidal dogwhister. There are 2 sides to a genocide. (And I'm not saying like 2 sides to a story. But a victim and a perpetrator) And the supporters of both sides will have unfortunate reading comprehension if it means they can take down a nobody in the business of nothing to make themselves feel morally superior.

So should he (Shawn and Noah) be more responsible or considerate or whatever? Idk. They can be or they can choose to show their ass. My respect (if any) for them never did rest on what their political beliefs were because, at the risk of appearing repetitive, I don't care.

I do care about the proxy hatred being spewed under the guise of sloganeering though. I'm way too used to it. It happens on the daily where I come from. I'm not gonna pretend y'all are angels. I see this for what it is.

So good on you for not supporting ST and staying true to your beliefs and code. That is always a respectable position to take. Sometimes people are just not in your position. Like you might not be in theirs. As you so pointed out.

TLDR: I trust celebs to post dumb shit. Where have you been to have expected differently?

[starlightomatic]

Hey! i thought your zionism/antisemitism polls were interesting, and i just wanted to add something. I'm not a zionist but I'm also not strictly anti-zionist, and i wonder how some antizionist voted that antizionism is antisemitic, unless they are also not-zionist-but-not-anti. Obviously you have no way of knowing who's voting, i was just wondering if you have thoughts about it!

if you mean this poll, based on the number of total votes, it comes out to just two people. i would suspect either a misclick, or what you described, but it's also definitely possible for someone to be antizionist but see other antizionists as framing things in ways that are antisemitic. however i think most of the folks in that boat see those framings more often from antizionist non-jews, so that's why very so few would have clicked that option.

but another way, i don't think it's saying antizionism is antisemitic, but rather than they see people weaving antisemitism into their discourse on the topic.

i personally see a ton of internalized antisemitism in a lot of the antizionist jews i interact with. sometimes in the same form as non-jewish leftist antisemitism, but a lot of the time it comes into play where people read oppression into all kinds of places in judaism where it isn't there, and seem to carry a guilt over being jewish that is bigger than just the situation (it feels like they think being jewish is inherently something one needs to atone from, redeem, or offset). but i also don't support zionism, and i also know a lot of antizionist jews with nuanced and solid takes that don't slip into those internalized antisemitic framings

if you're talking about this poll, it asks antizionists about whether zionism is antisemitic

[keshetchai]

Thank you for your deconstruction of that post about Jewish ethnicity and your detailed explanation of why it was a terrible take! I saw that post earlier and it got my hackles up but I didn't even know where to start when they're starting from such a flawed understanding of Jewish identity and ethnicity in general.

Yeah idk the most generous conclusions I have were those last two points — the argument either starts from assuming ethnonationalists have always been the ones defining ethnicity/they are the main arbiters of defining it (which I just reject categorically), or they have misunderstood or don't actually know what ethnicity means (outside of understanding ethnonationalism is bad).

And I never want to come out the gate with like "I think you just don't know what that word means," because that feels extremely condescending and combative. At the same time we're clearly facing some kind of vast language gap if the concept of "Jews are an ethnic group" is considered absurd or laughable. So working backwards those are my guesses for how someone got themselves to that conclusion which bizarrely had a lot of reblogs and i didn't look at the notes but like.

Please tell me I wasn't the only one baffled by this?? Anti-/non-zionist Jewish movements have typically still explicitly emphasized ethnicity, like...sometimes even moreso because "shared cultural identity here-ness" HAS to care more about group belonging in culture rather than in place or nation.

Either way: We can just reject ethnonationalism without erasing the concept of people having ethnicities! That's totally an option. Israel and Palestine both have histories of nationalist movements AND both can and should reject ethnonationalism because the levant itself is a place full of a variety of ethnicities. No matter what the future of the levant and any states within it look, ethnonationalism should be rejected.

Like yeah I can fully climb on board the whole "the modern nation state itself is bad, borders are violence enacted upon people, nation-states foment nationalism, colonialism, and so on, let's move forwards towards stateless society." Ethnonationalism is bad.

But simultaneously I live in like...a reality where something has to float us all until we can get there and I don't believe in a leftist rapture of "bloody revolution will overthrow all of current society."

spoilers: ethnic self-determination and governance doesn't mean you can avoid ethnonationalism strains cropping up!

Also just because this has been getting to me recently, here's a big tangent not part of the OP but something else I've been seeing: Indigeneity to a place doesn't actually elevate you to this morally pure and uncorrupt self, and it doesn't mean you're going to be a better society than anyone else trying to govern there or avoid ethnonationalism or nationalism.

That's...I mean that's not how it fucking works. I keep seeing like "these Israelis are destroying olive trees, an indigenous people wouldn't do that!" And it's like...such a kindergarten way of treating the status of being "native" as morally and ethically untainted by bad ideologies. To me it absolutely reeks of "noble savage" fantasies wherein like: nobleness of character, innocent benevolence to foreigners, and perfect stewardship of land is somehow the hallmarks of "true" Indigeneity.

I regret to inform everyone but if you only ever get the highlights reel history of Spanish colonialism in Mexico: the Spaniards were able to conquer Mexico the way they did for a variety of reasons (smallpox devastating the native populace is one of them), but one of those big key ways is the fact that various native groups hated the aztec triumvirate (the Mexica) so much that they actively helped the Spanish overthrow them.

The Spanish didn't conquer the Aztecs by themselves. The Spanish had maybe an army of 3,100 or so. The Aztecs had a fighting force of 200,000+, not including other allied forces. The spanish were able to conquer the Aztec empire because a whole lot of other indigenous forces were assisting them.

Being indigenous to somewhere absolutely doesn't mean you won't burn or destroy farms, or murder your also indigenous neighbors, or commit terrible atrocities, or even become an imperial force who enslaves people or enforces a caste system or anything else. It's not a guarantee that your society won't be shitty somehow. The Aztecs were comprised of native people, and they still cracked open rib cages of other human beings to extract their hearts in ritual sacrifice so like. It's not a strong argument to say "they definitely aren't from here because they destroy tree groves or murder Innocents."

If you wanna talk about settlers being settlers there's other ways to do it.

[gryficowa]

Boycott!

Israelis hate Palestinians, Poles, Roma, other Jews (For supporting Palestine), Holocaust survivors… They hate everyone, but of course we are the bad ones

Eden was persecuting Nemo (a non-binary person) and that dickhead was defending her anyway, so what if during Eurovision all the Israelis were persecuting everyone around them, no, they are victims…

Israelis are not victims, they are torturers who cry like victims when in practice they hurt others and they fucking laugh about it because people believe them

Yes, I admire Israelis who oppose Zionist propaganda, it's just a pity that they are closer to zero and it fucking sucks

Even the Germans opposed the Third Reich, even the Russians opposed Putin (People love to forget about strikes when they can see everything as divided into good and evil)

When I see Israelis striking for Palestine, it is extraordinary, but as I mentioned, the number of unbrainwashed people who are pro-genocide garbage is very low and it will depress me, even there were many Poles (Despite the rotten apples) who risked their lives, and people still they believe that Poles cooperated with the Nazis (When Poland was a victim of colonization), how do you imagine the future of Jews? Will they wear all the shit the Zionists gave them? I don't want them to deal with this shit, I don't want the Jews fighting for Palestine to be erased, Zionists will try but they won't succeed

I hate how Zionists (Mainly Israelis…) call everyone Nazis when Israel is the real Nazi, doing the same as the Third Reich, FUCKING GENOCIDE AND RACIAL SEGREGATION IS NAZISM

Being against Israel for its crimes IS NOT NAZISM OR ANTI-SEMITISM, ISRAEL IS THE TORTURER, IT COMMITS GENOCIDE, IT'S LIKE SCREAMING THAT THE PERSECUTION OF THE THIRD REICH WAS XENOPHOBIC

Besides, the explanation "That Palestine is just as guilty" is sick, because that's what the fucking Nazis explained, according to them, Jews were also fucking evil, so they deserved to die, because they steal and are to blame for the fact that life in Germany is shitty (Because was not good at that time, but instead of caring what the reason was, it's always best to blame the whore on the group that can't defend itself…), because Jews are to blame for the existence of gays… Now the same is being done towards the Palestinians, to vigorously spread the narrative that either Palestine itself is to blame, or there's fault on both sides and it's fucking sick

I just hate that victim blaming still fucking works

Now that I have your attention:

-----------------------------------------------------

I know I've gone on and on, but it pisses me off, Roma and Poles were also victims of the holocaust, gays and homosexuals too, people with disabilities too, the fact that Israelis can hate other holocaust victims and think that they are "appropriating a Jewish thing" is fucked up

Just because the number wasn't big enough for you doesn't fucking mean that the other victims were less important, each of the victims is fucking important, so did the German ones (Because the Third Reich put them in concentration camps too), there were more Nazi victims, and we probably don't know about many of them yet, because society has decided that that they're not that fucking important and it sucks

Don't forget about the collections at the top

[jewreallythinkthat]

Idk, I get what you're going for, pointing out canards and tropes, but isn't there an argument to be made that changing the words of a sentence changes the meaning? Like I can see someone with Tumblr reading comprehension reblogging a post that says "I can't believe that Zionists are defending killing those babies in those hospitals" with a screenshot of your post even though that sentiment is pretty legit.

Hi nonnie,

I'm afraid without knowing what post you're talking about it's difficult to answer this.

I try to think of ways people can misunderstand my posts so I can tweak them and minimize it but frankly the reading comprehension of people on this website is abysmal and there is an automatic assumption that everyone who disagreed with you on anything is inherently evil and also stupid.

Sometimes the only way to combat an aggressoe who openly states they will never stop is by being aggressive. It's fucking awful and horrible and the deaths are horrific. I've seen more death in the past 5 months than anyone should ever see. I do however believe that you should believe someone when they tell you who they are. Hamas are a genocidal cult who revel in their orgies of Jew hate. Netenyahu is a pathetic coward in charge of a militarised country currently at war and his cronies are spineless bastards. With either of these groups in power, peace is not looking very possible and I hope that they are both removed swiftly and effectively - ideally with minimum collateral damage, or even better they can all go to the Hague together and never come back.

I do not want Israel to invade Rafah. I want a sustainable, bilateral ceasefire followed by movement towards a two state solution so Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace. This should be a reasonable thing to say.

I cannot help how other people read my posts and their comprehension. If they're a non Jew wandering the jumblr tag, my posts are frankly not for them.

[a-very-tired-jew]

Dropout Discord Keeps on Giving

You'd think with the server shutting down / freezing in a week or so that there would not be anything to report, but you'd be wrong.

In the past few days the current batch of users, specifically that one young Jew who believes all of us are brainwashed, have been posting some out there stuff.

I have the screen shots but at this point it can be summarized as Everyone is Brainwashed but Me still thinks their family is brainwashed and they can't be honest with them about the Truth™ without being labeled a "traitor". But they know the Truth™ that this is a Genocide and the worst thing ever and their family doesn't (remember this is someone in their early 20s). Their family gave them Noa Tishby's book to read and its full of Zionist lies and propaganda. In response another use recommended this link.

Fig. 1. User responding to Everyone is Brainwashed but Me with a video to "argue" back with.

This video features Dr. Lara Sheehi. If you don't know who that is, Dr. Sheehi has a history of antisemitic behavior and targeting of Jews in her classes. Dr. Sheehi has openly supported Hamas and her social media was the infamous Blackflaghag that posted such wonderful things as "FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR AID". Profiles on Dr. Sheehi repeat the same thing that much of her time as a professor was spent demonizing Jews and Israel and trying to recruit people to BDS and other causes.

She was a professor at GWU and the university's investigation "cleared" her. However, the Office of Civil Rights opened an investigation into her and suddenly she left GWU in January 2024 and is now a professor at the Doha Institute for Graduate Studies in Qatar. Considering that Qatar has funneled billions of dollars into the USA collegiate system, was host to leaders of Hamas for years, and their state media acts as a mouth piece for Hamas, it's not surprising that she would end up there considering the amount of work she did for the Cause™ in the USA.

I doubt anyone will point out any of this to them, nor would they accept it as anything other than "Hasbara". Later, they tell us that they finished the book and that it's full of apartheid denial and denial that Israel is a colonial state (there's a collage of pictures in between the two comments that I won't include here).

Fig. 2. Everyone is Brainwashed but Me mentions finishing the book.

The apartheid argument is one I have seen come up a multitude of times by activists, and it makes no sense to me. Apartheid, as defined, is the discriminatory authoritarian ruling of the majority by a minority population that results in segregation based on race within a country. As many have previously established, Arab Israelis have the same rights as all other non-Arab Israelis. They are part of the government, military, businesses, and so on. If the argument is to be made that there is apartheid like laws regarding Palestinians...well that makes no sense. The Palestinian territories are their own separate entity with their own separate governments, laws, and structures. Meaning, Palestinians entering Israel from Gaza or the WB are foreign nationals, they will of course be subject to different laws. In fact, every country has a set of laws for foreign nationals that differ in some capacity from the laws that govern their civilians. So we either have the Palestinian territories actually being a part of Israel in the mind of activists, which only area C could be considered this, or they're separate entities entirely. Area C gets into a whole realm of murky politicking that is outside of my realm of expertise, but it's the only place where I can see this argument hold any weight (and yes, the settlement stuff is bullshit and the military laws get into a whole weird realm of things, I'm well aware of this). However, I have yet to encounter any Western Activists acknowledging the complexity of Area C and the international laws and regulations regarding it, let alone the average activist even knowing the difference between the Areas, Israel, and Palestinian territories. Now, I have seen the lack of a right of return for Palestinians be used as an argument that Israel is an apartheid state. And again, I have to ask how? This type of law is not characteristic of apartheid as we know and define it. But again, if we get into this territory then what happens? Do they become Israelis or are they Palestinian citizens? What laws are they subject to? If they're foreign nationals living in Israel due to a right of return then they have different laws that adhere to them, which is not part of an apartheid system. If they become Israeli citizens then they have all the rights given to them as citizens. Neither of these support the claim. Simply put, they insist Israel is an apartheid state and when you mention any form of the above they call you a racist spreading propaganda and then shut down any meaningful discussion (in Dropout's case they kick you from the server for pointing out how wrong they are about things). We have a clear definition of what apartheid means and what practices are involved, but like "genocide" it seems that this definition has gone out the window and is now defined as anything people want it to be. As for the colonial state argument, who is Israel a colony of? And don't say the USA or the UK, that would mean that they send resources back to those countries, are taxed by them, their government is controlled in every capacity by them, and so much more. Considering anti-Zionists like to say the USA's government is controlled by Israel, it's quite contradictory. It appears that so much of the Western Activist's antisemitism anti-Zionism is couched within just believing everything Jews Israelis Zionists say is lies while openly believing a terrorist organization's narrative (an organization that I, once again, need remind everyone is on record saying they would manipulate Westerns into believing their narrative regardless of its veracity).

[xclowniex]

I've been thinking that in building peace between Israelis and Palestinians, we need to build peace between our diaspora communities too. But how do we even begin that with the world dead set on pitting us against each other, making it an either-or choice of being strictly Pro-Israel or Pro-Palestine, and encouraging us to embrace destructive ideologies that fuel the cycle of violence in our homeland and around the world?

Hi sorry this has been sitting in my inbox a while I just keep seeing this ask and going "oh I want to answer that one but I wanna write a proper response so I'll do it when I have time" and then when I have time I just forget.

Yeah, I 100% agree. How can we achieve peace if we can't even have peace within the jewish community worldwide.

It's so hard in the diaspora as there are so many external influences which affect each jew differently.

I don't think peace would ever look like diaspora jews agreeing on like a vague overarching idea on Israel and tbh we shouldn't 100% need to as no group is a monolith and a diversity of opinions is good.+ 2 jews 3 opinions kinda being our thing.

However, we should reach a point where jews of all opinions on zionism stop throwing each other under the bus.

For example, antizionist jews need to stop acting like all zionist jews are dangerous and want Palestinians dead and zionist jews need to stop acting like every single antizionist jew is secular and is non practicing/has a weak connection to Judaism.

Throwing each other under the bus doesn't achieve anything except dividing the Jewish community making us an easier target for antisemitism and an easier target for external influences to divide us further.

We need to find some common ground, listen to each other and go from there.

The whole thing of making jews choose is also, sad as again, 2 jews 3 opinions whilst a light hearted statement, does have truth to it. And I think it's also an overarching trend in general, not just the Jewish community, where people are being forced to 100% align to every major opinion on a political side to be considered of that side.

Like I want a peaceful two state solution and most far left folk wouldn't consider me a leftist even though every other opinion I have is a leftist opinion. Having one non conforming opinion doesn't erase all of your other opinions. And I feel like it's important to not act like having one non-conforming opinion makes you no longer a leftist, etc.

I do hope and wish for the day when jews all around the world are united.