#AND GIVE ME ZANE AND WYLDFYRE INTERACTIONS.

[acksolotel618]

why are there literally no fics with Garmadon and Zane interacting??? Emperor Garmadon and Ice Emperor???? Hi hello

sm angst potential but nobody gaf and im too lazy to write

[parachutingkitten]

Not an ask per se, just a similar feeling. You’re someone whose Ninjago stuff, here and on YT, I’ve really enjoyed for at least a few years. And I’ve been similarly obsessed with the show for some time. But… it’s as you say — DR is objectively fine, objectively nice, but I don’t feel the same obsession about it and its characters, plot, etc that I used to feel all the time with Ninjago. And I *cannot* figure out why, and it’s also been driving me slightly up the wall. It’s maybe because I genuinely try to give media the best chance when I interact with it, but despite multiple DR rewatches I don’t see what everyone else sees. And the disconnect is a sad, like you mention — I joined the community here because I was so glad to have people who loved this show in the same ways I did, and now it’s like they’re all on a different wavelength and I want to be there but I’m not. It’s definitely strange for sure, made worse I think by the fact that DR isn’t like horrifically bad or anything, I just feel… okay, when watching it, and can’t even explain why.

I don’t know how much sense this makes, but I thought it might be something for you to think about if you’d like. I’ve been tossing around the idea that I don’t love DR because it is… good. It’s good, but too neat — if that makes sense? The new characters — I love them all, but their personalities and backstories and situations they’re put in all remind me of several other stories. The subplots of the episodes always have an end goal in mind, often an emotional realisation, and whilst that’s a neat way to tell stories, it doesn’t feel like, to me, the way Ninjago used to tell stories. Like, the first thing that comes to mind is Sora feeling hopeless and that episode with the djin where she realises that it’s important to hope. And maybe this isn’t a great comparison (as I’m typing it out, I realise that it isn’t the best example oof), but I immediately thought of Zane after Seabound, when he’d turned off his emotions. Sora’s bad feelings, whilst not as ‘significant’ as Zane’s in that context, began just before and were wrapped up neatly in that episode and not brought up again. Zane acts detached from the start of S16 if I remember, and it’s only near the end of the season (I think! I know that it’s a few eps at least) when he meets Sally, talks to her, learns a little about her life, and is able to come to the realisation that he shouldn’t be repressing everything. I think DR, because of the amount of characters it has, especially those that are new, and the amount of new worldbuilding, plot stuff, etc that they have to add in, it being a reboot/sequel type of thing, leaves less time for the nuance and time devoted to the character arcs in the original show. Or maybe I’m just crazy, honestly idk.

Something else that stands out to me is the fact that DR has to establish so much about these new characters and their world that they… they do something that old Ninjago didn’t do, and whilst it’s maybe objectivity a better storytelling choice, I think it’s part of the reason I’m not really feeling it. What they do is that they have the characters act kind of realistic. Arin worries about his parents, often. Sora did too. Wyldfyre and Kai definitely have a few moments where it’s implied that they’re confused about what’s up with their powers. In Ninjago up to s16, because they wrote a lot of it without intending much or anything to come after it, I feel like they thought less about this than the DR writers, who know that they’ve got a few seasons lined up, do. For example — hands of time is when we find out about Ray and Maya, but it was never often addressed by Nya and Kai. It’s brought up in s4, of course, but if they were real kids whose parents had vanished one day they’d probably bring it up more often, like Arin did. But it’s often not done in the narrative because the writers gave them other things to focus on, because they’re storytelling devices and not real kids. There was no real buildup to Nya being the water ninja, for example, but Sora’s said to be good with tech a few moments after we meet her. This ain’t a critique of either show — just a different choice I sort of picked up on, if it even makes any sense. And as crazy as it may sound, I liked that about the old Ninjago — it saw the characters more as storytelling devices, I think, than relatable to the audience (Kai was the hothead, Jay the humour, etc — ofc they were more than that, but they retained that sort of vibe from S1 a little all throughout the show I think). DR, on the other hand, seems to want their characters to be more relatable, more multifaceted, make more sense — which, when coupled with the fact that they’re new characters and that the ninjago fandom has historically thrived on gaps in the show to enjoy it (we’re a very AU, OC, heavy fandom, etc), I think DR attempting to flesh out their characters in the way that we’re often used to doing with the old characters in fic, art, etc means that I like DR a little less because there’s less to ‘work with’, and less that inspires thinking of the characters in different situations — bc whilst relating is nice, it is also enjoyable when the characters are written with some core characteristics in mind and you explore other parts of them or those characteristics in different contexts. I don’t think makes much sense, but I hope that it maybe gives you something to think about — as you can probably see, I’ve been going a little crazy over not liking it and not knowing why, so I know that the feeling isn’t great.

I'm picking up what you're putting down here. My next video has a bit about getting disillusioned with a fandom, and it sucks. It always does. It's heartbreaking when you feel like that special bond between you and your show was somehow broken. I empathies, and it's important to feel it out.

Now, I don't think ninjago was better at character arcs, i don't think having a character arc be longer is better, or even really a characteristic of classic ninjago, but I do think the DR character arcs feel very by the book. They're following the screenwriting 101 guide perfectly, but it ends up feeling a bit lacking because of it? If that makes sense? Now, ninjago was historically very bad at character arcs, but when they got it right, they always had a bit of a spin on things, and interesting visual payoff, whatever. I think the zane's emotions arc isn't particularly great (and the sally piece is sort of at the end of the first half of the season ;) I would argue sora's arc in season 1 about finding confidence is better, but that doesn't mean I find it much more enjoyable.

I will agree that that the characters in ninjago definitely feel more like characters, while the DR cast (old cast included) feel more like people. Neither are a bad thing, but I think it definitely has an effect on the tone. Characters allow for a more lighthearted goofy vibe, because the show is operating on a higher suspension of disbelief most of the time. DR on the other hand, does want a little more vulnerability from its audience on a regular basis.

Lastly, I do think you're onto something with DR being fully planned. The two seasons we have so far feel very indistinct. There is less of a defining singular "adventure" in each season. And again, that's not a good thing or a bad thing, but it ends up making things feel different. Ninjago is an episodic series of adventures. DR is a continual evolving set of circumstances. Those are just going to feel different.

[jinxed-ninjago]

One thing I don't think we speculate/theorize/discuss/whatever enough is how Plundar would interact with the team on a more casual basis and vice versa (I'm specifying Plundar because with Wyldfyre's existence I feel like we can get a loose idea of how Korgran would interact with the team on a more casual basis and vice versa because I think Korgran and Wyldfyre have similar attitudes [although Korgran is definitely more chill than Wyldfyre], and I don't think Fungus would be much different considering how he interacts with the rest of the Upply, Cole, Wu, and Vania casually).

So Plundar interacting with the rest of the ninja:

We know Kai was likely jealous that Cole "had a crew" when Plundar introduced himself as "part of Cole's crew" so if we go off of that, I feel like Kai and Plundar would have a rivalry going on. Would it be one-sided on Kai's end? Probably, let's be honest. The idea is really funny. BUT I also really like the idea of Plundar finding worn out daggers and swords in the mines under Shintaro Mountain when he goes spelunking with the Upply and taking them to the monastery for Kai to restore. Still rivals but Kai appreciates Plundar giving him weapons to restore in the monastery's forge. Maybe Plundar even takes the weapons to Kai for him to restore in an attempt to demonstrate that the one-sided rivalry he has going on is fucking dumb lol.

Everyone else is gonna be significantly harder just because they don't really interact with Plundar canonically (Jay's only interaction with Plundar is screaming when he sees Adam then questioning who the Upply are, Nya's only interaction with him is asking who he is, and Lloyd and Zane don't interact with him at all). I will do my best however because the idea of Plundar interacting with these goofs is great.

Lloyd would probably be more skeptical of him at first, just because that's how Lloyd is. Statistically speaking, even if one of the ninja makes a new friend or ends up with a love interest who is briefly evil but ends up on their side in the end, they're still on the villain's side at some point to an extent, and I don't doubt that Lloyd would extend this sentiment to Lloyd. It happened with Zane and Pixal, it happened with Kai and Skylor (and there it resulted in Kai getting briefly corrupted), it happened with Lloyd himself and Harumi, basically you can count on ninja love interests starting out in league with the villains/villainous factions so I wouldn't doubt that Lloyd would be distrusting of Plundar, especially since Plundar's a thief. Cue Plundar trying way too hard to gain Lloyd's trust, and Cole trying to explain to Plundar "you're fine, he's just like this, he'll come around eventually as long as you aren't horrible."

I feel like Plundar would probably troll Jay all the time. Plundar's a thief who probably aces his stealth checks every time AND canonically Cole brought him on a stealth mission, you can't tell me he wouldn't tease the shit out of Jay using his stealth. It's probably more in an "I see you as a little brother so I'm gonna tease you relentlessly" way and not from a place of malice. Jay, who is used to getting this kind of shit but from a meaner verbal place from Kai, probably doesn't mind and tells Plundar when he needs a break from it.

Plundar and Nya would probably do a lot of sparring. Canonically, Nya's always looking for ways she can improve her skills, and having a stealthy thief around to help combat stealth would probably lead to a lot of sparring between the two. Outside of that, Plundar would probably be in the same spot as Cole and see her as a younger sister.

Plundar's been underground for YEARS, bro would be absolutely fascinated by both Zane and Pixal and I think they'd both be 100% down to answer any questions he has, whether it be about their mechanics, their programming, or really anything. Even if the question would be something the others would call invasive, they're patient and understanding because they understand it's new to Plundar.

I think Plundar should've interacted with the rest of the team more, I genuinely feel like we were robbed of some interactions that could've been pure gold (ESPECIALLY with Plundar and Kai) lmao

[nerdyenby]

DRS2 reactions (spoilers)

Ep 1

Ras at the shadow dojo???????? Who woulda thunk

New intro?!?!!!?!! Idk why I wasn’t expecting that, actually

The public including Pix with the missing ninja my beloved

Gosh, big Riyu will take some getting used to

Wait… is that a curious george reference??

I don’t know if I’ve heard someone outright say something isn’t good for their friend’s mental health in a cartoon before, it’s really refreshing

Casual Frohicky and Sora/Arin interactions my beloved <3

Omg Kai explaining Shang to Zane is such season one vibes

Lloyd having open and honest conversations with his students about both his and their wellbeing is so important to me

Ok, hear me out: au where baby Wu didn’t age back at an enhanced rate and gets lost at somepoint and Arin is teenage Wu

Dang it, Cinder’s kinda funny

Ep 2

I legit started happy stimming so hard at that opening shot, I’m really invested in Euphrasia’s story already and nothing’s even happened yet lol

Percival out here making the gen z solarpunk dream a reality!!!!

Lloyd calling it what it is — a panic attack — soothes something in me

Sora did really bad graffiti of cats when she was young, that’s adorable and kinda tells you everything you need to know about her

MY GIRL!!!!!!!

Euphrasia using a cane!!!! Hell yeah mobility aids!!!! (Even though it’ll probably be gone in two episodes lol)

I kid you not, I was 100% expecting Suetonius to say “resurrect… the Great Devourer” lmao

I love that the gang is (mostly) all together, but it’s a bit too many characters for a conversation, I get why they like to split them into groups

Nya grounding Lloyd :(( /pos

Kai boasting about a fight that he won a decade ago when Cinder probably doesn’t even know Ash is endlessly amusing to me

Ras is so dramatic I can’t really take him seriously

Damn, they’re letting characters get hurt, it’s kinda refreshing but it’s scary

Ep 3

Wait I didn’t see Euphrasia get captured :((

WHAT THE HELL?!???? /vpos

Strength, motion, energy, and life?!??!!??

AYOOOOOO?!?!????

Kai comforting Wyldfyre <333

We know this takes place after the mech shorts, so why hasn’t anyone mentioned Cole? He was also seen in public, so why did that conspiracy guy say he’s still missing?

Why do they keep leaving Zane behind?? He’s in his housewife era fr

Kai making sure Wyldfyre’s taken care of :((

This show is so unserious, I love it

I wasn’t feeling people calling Kai Wyldfyre’s dad after season one but…

No… Sora took Arin’s thing from him… she didn’t mean to, but he feels like he’s not special anymore :(

I’m going to pretend that was a believable amount of parts to make a mech that big

Kai getting moments with Arin and Sora my beloved

Kai’s “hey kid, nice of you to drop by” is giving the same energy as when Lloyd and Arin first met during the merge

THE WALLS ARE MOVING, REPEAT: THE WALLS ARE MOVING

These nightmare sequences are going so hard

Nya being the first one to realize it isn’t real when her nightmare is reality, I’m screaming

Riyu comforting Wyldfyre <333

Nya best sister award when

Ep 4

My boys!!!!!

THE found family of all time

IF ANYTHING HAPPENS TO MY CHILDREN I WILL RIOT

Seeing Kai and Nya fight so smoothly together is so special after how much they and Lloyd were tripping over each other when they first reunited

Basketball?!??!!??!!!

Autistic Arin real and true

I love Bonzle so much

Geo is such a lil bastard actually /pos, makes more sense why he and Cole are a thing, knowing Cole’s taste in men

COLE!!!!!!

Cole will never stop being overpowered, it seems, he deserves it tbh

Censorship pog /hj

“Not funny, Wyldfyre” “Not joking, Sora” the sheer cousin vibes in this interaction are too much to handle

Lloyd PLEASE just mention being 1/4 dragon, it will almost certainly get Egalt on board, I am begging

Glacier reunion!!!!!!!

Ep 5

I wanted a more emotional reunion, but they’ve probably seen each other off screen (or I’m just forgetting a scene from the shorts)

Zane, why are you still carrying that doll like it’s your child??

Bonzle my beloved, she’s says that so deadpan I don’t actually have any questions

Wyldfyre my beloved

I would die for Bonzle

Cole and Geo holding hands 😭😭😭😭😭

Is Egalt the motion source dragon?? Probably not tbh but I’d believe it

Man’s spitting facts, flatearthers are going to lose their shit

“Little fire man” IM DYING OH MY GOD

Wait when does this take place? My first instinct is while the ninja were in the Never Realm but idk if we’ll actually find out

“Friends can become like family?” “Definitely” IM SOBBING ON THE FLOOR

Letting Arin be angry is so important

Cole shutting down Bonzle’s suicidal thoughts without hesitation “no, you are loved and needed. We will find a way to protect you” <333

The physical affection in DR is so dear to me

Human sacrifices???? In MY lego show?????

Ep 6

Wyldfyre struggling with her body’s limits is really relatable as a young disabled person

FOREHEAD TOUCH :((

Plot twist: where the other ninja are right now is Mysterium and they have that tua meme of two cars passing each other moment

Damn, that exchange hit hard as a former gifted kid. Sometimes having someone believe in you hurts. You’re not just letting yourself down, but them, too

Nya just fucking bodyslamming Kai, Egalt didn’t know what he was getting into pitting the world’s most competitive siblings against each other

“The Finders are like my family” *looks at Zane* “My other family” screaming, crying, sobbing on the floor

Oh no

Wait yeah, why are they thirsty if Zane can just make ice for them to chew on? At least Cole and Jiro, idk if Bonzle needs water

The nonbinary pirate!!!

Cole CANNOT escape the performing arts fr fr

Ep 7

Bonzle is giving transgender

That is the most Jay and Cole thing I’ve ever heard it, it’s so in character it almost feels out of character

Arin and Sora going through the exact same thing and trying and failing to not take it out on each other :( it’s ok tho, the real ones are the ones you can be snippy with and love regardless

Wyldfyre referring to the ninja as “Kai’s friends” honey, they’re your friends too, I promise

Anyone who calls Wyldfyre dumb can fuck off, she’s so perceptive and intelligent and is really good at connecting others when she truly wants to

Bonzle’s mom <33333

Bonzle’s smile when her mom compliments her name <3333

Who you calling stolen equipment bitch?????

Lil Kai and Nya!!!!!!

Nya’s so proud of him!!!!! I could cry

Kai being the first to achieve it because fire is an element under motion’s domain methinks

Oh you bigoted son of a bitch

Zane why are you considering it????? Honey

What the fuck did you do to Jiro??!?!!!

JAY?!?!!???

Ep 8

NOOOO 😭😭😭

There’s literally a nindroid agent right there????

The og musical cue playing when Jay comes back <3

Jay on his Euphrasia arc, this is highkey breaking my heart though

I’m counting this as a fakeout death and you can’t stop me

Are you kidding me???!!!? How many times is Jay going to be one room away from the ninja

Lloyd SHUT UP /aff

“And cursed!!” She says cheerfully, this lady is an icon

The subtitles keep calling Cole Kai, what is this, season one??

Ep 9

Aww, baby Ras (trying desperately to not care about him)

Oh ok, he’s making my job easier

Poor Wyldfyre :(

I love this trio so much, their banter is so good

Lloyd honey, fighting it is making it worse

Nya holding him through his panic attack :((

I was expecting Cole to deny that it was him, the earth is going through it

The disco toaster!!!!!

Heck yeah Riyu!!!

I love them so much it’s not even funny

“What’s your elemental power, imperviousness to sarcasm?” She just called him autistic in 13 languages (I’m autistic, dw guys)

“First time driving?” “Believe it or not, no” Bonzle and Arin my beloved

I’m a touch disappointed Wyldfyre’s perfectly fine now as someone with chronic pain, but I’m glad it was handled as well as it was and it’s a really important lesson for younger audiences that pushing your body while it’s in pain only makes it worse

The silent exchange of Cole suggesting Zane takes the parrot potion is endlessly funny but also sad considering it’s probably the closest well get to talking about the Falcon

Cole turning into a puppy who cheered?!???

“At least you’re adorable” “I’m always adorable” get a room /aff

Tournament of elements flashbacks

The workplace gossip omg, Cinder really out here beefing with a 16 year old

Don’t you even fucking dare

MY BABIESSSSSS

Ep 10

Arin mistaking Lloyd and Nya for his parents hurts :(

Oh no… I mean, it was obviously coming but it’s still very bad

WYLDFYRE POPPING OFF!!!!! THIS GIRL NEEDED HER ENRICHMENT

Let Euphrasia do stuff 2024

Wyldfyre jumping in front of Kai and protecting him

The basketball practice coming in handy lol

The fight cinematography in DR is fucking superb

KAI D: (he’ll be fine, I believe)

Nya!!!!!

BONZLE MVP!!!!

I was prepared for Rontu and Egalt to stay dead, the breath I let out when the stone cracked was unparalleled

Are we legit not getting Kai back????

Cole and Lloyd hug!!!!!

RAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

Oh no… that lie is going to hurt when it comes out

Kai and Bonzle!!!!

Not like Master Wu says, like Lloyd says ;-; /pos

[agenericplaceholdername]

I think this is a solid theory, but I think the evidence is mixed (S2P2 spoilers).

Evidence in favor:

Sora's main arc in S1 is largely pushed forward by her interactions with side characters and villains: Euphrasia, Arrakore, and Geo on the hero side and Dr. LaRow on the villain side

Lloyd's arc in S2P1 is basically dependent on him not having anyone who can really relate to him, because it's all about an internal struggle (although despite this, he has some good stuff with Nya)

The ensemble is constantly split up, and the closest we get to all of the active Ninja together for an extended period of time is in S2P2, where it's clear the writers don't have something for every Ninja

Arin's arc in S2 is all about him falling out with the Ninja, so while he does have plenty of interactions with them, they're for the sake of his individual character arc

Evidence opposed:

Arin and Sora's friendship and their character interactions are super important, both in characterizing the two in S1 and in S2P2 when they have their falling out

Lloyd in S1 is dependent on other characters, mainly Arin and Sora, but also Kai, Nya, and Wyldfyre, for his story, since his main character beats are about being a teacher, and the same is true in S2P2 between him and Sora

Wyldfyre's development in S1P1 is inextricable from Kai's mentorship

The way the Ninja are written makes them feel closer and more connected to each other - in terms of the affection they give, the dialogue used. This doesn't necessarily make the plots about the dynamics between different characters, but the overall theme and vibe of the show is very much ensemble based

Comparison to older seasons:

I'm just not sure how much of the old show was really about the ensemble as a driving force of the plot. Certainly the Pilots and S1 were like this, but Lloyd is the focus of S2, Zane is for S3, Jay is for S6, Cole is for DotD, Lloyd is for S8 and S10, Cole is for S13, and Nya is for S14. That's ~half the original show. And even in the seasons without a defined focus, the character stories are fairly constrained to one main character (and sometimes a side character) - eg. Cole becoming a ghost in S5, or Lloyd and Akita in S11. The only long running stories about multiple characters are the (mostly badly-written) romances.

I feel like Prime Empire is the best example of what you're saying, where none of the main cast has an arc or even real character focus, so the entertainment just comes in the Ninja interacting with each other (and side characters). Meanwhile, while Dragons Rising has plenty of interactions between the main cast, it also has more individualized arcs, so the bulk of the relative entertainment value comes from them. I don't feel like there's a tradeoff here though (especially with the longer run times) because we get enough of both of them. The Zane/Cole/Bonzle/Gandalaria plot in S2P1 has no big character drama for our main cast (Zane and Cole) but is also seen as one of the weaker aspects of S2P1, because it takes away from our main character arcs.

There's also the question of "what do characters think of each other" eg. Zane and Arin or Wyldfyre and Cole. This is part of the problem with having eight members of your ensemble, because you have 28(?) potential pairings to flesh out. The original show struggled with this too, especially once the cast moved beyond the first four Ninja. How often did Kai and Zane interact outside of S13 (over 110 episodes in)? Or Nya and Zane until S7 when she starts fixing him (65 episodes in)? Or Lloyd and Jay... ever? Cole and Jay being "best friends" wasn't even said up until they made up in Versus (39 episodes in). The whole RGB siblings thing baffled me until DR, because I don't think there was a single scene in the original show that centered around just that trio. My perspective has always been that Dragons Rising just has Arin, Sora, and Lloyd as a core cast (who do all have fleshed out dynamics). However, this is very different than the original show! All of the original Ninja were part of the core cast, and a character becoming a Ninja (Nya) turned automatically into part of the core cast. There's two, maybe three rings where Lloyd, Arin, and Sora are in the center, then Kai, Nya, and Wyldfyre, and then Cole and Zane. Riyu is too cool for this but I'd put him in the second ring. This is not really an ensemble in the same way then, since characters aren't given equal time, but it doesn't have one central protagonist either.

Synthesis: (I don't know why I structured this post like this but whatever)

Dragons Rising's main entertainment value does come in part from long running character arcs, which often only involve only one character. There are plenty of times where multiple main characters are interacting, but the big emotional payoff is not typically centered around these moments. It's more of a nice backdrop. These main characters are all Ninja, but some of these are core to the show, while others exist on the periphery of main character status. The original show lacks these long running character arcs, so while it has character stories which don't involve several main characters, those stories are inherently less meaningful (not worse, just less relevant to a viewer) and more relative entertainment comes out of the interactions between the core cast. This core cast is comprised of all the Ninja, with a decent amount of time allotted to them. That doesn't make either show worse or better, but it does make them different.

Okay, new theory on my ninjago/dragons rising dissonance- I need would love to hear your thoughts:

Maybe it's their differing approaches to being an ensemble show?

Like, ninjago is an ensemble show in that the dynamic between the differing personalities on the team makes up a good chunk of the entertainment value. Dragons Rising is an ensemble show in that it has a large cast- but personality driven interactions between the core cast aren't really the meat of the show. It's more focused on individual character plots to keep things interesting.

I might just be hallucinating this difference out of nowhere- again it has been a while since I last watched DR, but this also feels plausible, because I also tend to dislike when ninjago would try and dial in on a focus ninja at the cost of the team stuff.