#7.5b intervallo spoilers

[lu-is-not-ok]

'If asked about a specific thing' you say? Well, if possible could you tell your thoughts about 7.5-22, Witnessing? Or to be even more specific - the conversation between a (very much trying) Dante and Hong Lu?

I also must concur on the needing him dead bit. Gonna send him to be chased by an animal of some sort.

Oh boy do I have a lot of yapping to do about that particular scene.

Spoiler warning and all that.

Let me start with this. This exchange includes possibly the most blatant lies Hong Lu has ever said.

If you've read the Intervallo with any sort of understanding of what's going on, this should not shock you. Deception is a major thematic thread here, to the point that Outis, Miss Obvious Liar herself, was the other major focus Sinner outside of Hong Lu.

I'd say that about half of the things Hong Lu says during this conversation are just that, extremely blatant fucking lies, with the other half either being half truths or the final statement, which I'll leave for the end of this post.

So, let's see what shit Hong Lu is saying here. In order he says them. (Thank you to @mulberriesandtea for transcribing the scene onto cogitopedia already so I can use that for screenshots instead of going into the game itself for that.)

This, I believe, is a half-truth. And by that I mean it's a blatant fucking lie that might seem technically true only to Hong Lu himself.

I'll be blunt. I call bullshit on this. I refuse to believe Hong Lu genuinely was not promised something in return of him joining Limbus Company.

The main reason I have for that is the nature of the Golden Boughs. From what we've learned about them all the way up until current story events, Golden Boughs are entities that feed on the Desires of people to truly awaken their powers. It's clear that Limbus Company's own goals rely heavily on those awakened powers of the Boughs.

With that in mind, there is no way in hell Limbus Company would ever hire a Sinner with no powerful wish or desire, as that would be contrary to the point of the Department in the first place.

That being said, I call this part of the conversation a "half-truth" for a reason. Because while in reality Limbus Company might have very much offered to fulfill a desire of Hong Lu's, there is a very real possibility he considers the fulfillment of it truly impossible.

Hong Lu as a character is extremely fatalistic, with all signs pointing to him believing that no matter what he does, his fate will remain unchanged. As such, it's very likely that because of this fatalism, he believes there is no way for Limbus Company to actually fulfill his wish, as to be able to do that would potentially mean subverting fate itself. Thus, to him, it's as if he never wished for anything at all.

This one might just be the biggest and most blatant lie Hong Lu has ever told.

I've already talked about how extremely emotionally repressed Hong Lu is at lengths, so I'll just summarize it thusly.

Hong Lu is the only Sinner who realized the core of what Yi Sang's troubles are. He is the only Sinner to consistently reach out and check up on Yi Sang, always specifically doing so when Yi Sang is locking up his thoughts and feelings rather than verbalizing them. It is clear that, despite their differences, Hong Lu deeply relates to Yi Sang and understands him on a level nobody else appears to.

Do you see what I'm talking about?

Hong Lu is the only Sinner at all to understand that hiding one's true feelings is what Yi Sang's issue actually is.

My brother in Christ is saying he's seen Yi Sang at the devil's sacrament when we should all be asking what the fuck He himself was doing at the devil's sacrament.

This one I would say is another blatant lie, though perhaps not as blatant as the one that directly precedes it.

Again, I'll be blunt. Every time Hong Lu has used the 'new experiences' excuse was just a straight up lie, with one of the few instances of a downright Confirmed lie coming from one of such excuses.

To go a little bit deeper, Hong Lu seems to use this lie in one particular kind of situation - when discussing the reasons he left the Jia household. He mentions it in his K Corp ID, where the NPC he's talking to outwardly doubts it due to it not making sense with his current situation, and he mentions it in TKT, which is downright confirmed to be bullshit due to Xichun mentioning in Canto 7 that his Family is looking for him. A very strange thing for them to do if he were telling the truth, as if they wanted him to experience as much of the world as possible, then why would they ever want to cut that short?

The fact that he's using this excuse here means that his reason for joining Limbus Company is likely to be closely related to his reason for leaving the Jia household.

If you're like me and believe that Hong Lu actually ran away from home, then this would explain his evasion here - he likely joined Limbus Company as a way to hide, maybe even at some point hoping that they would grant him some protection, if even temporarily. After all, with how fatalistic Hong Lu is, it's likely that even at the time of him joining the Company, he already knew his time was limited and that he would inevitably be found anyway.

This is the last statement Hong Lu makes before we get the cartoon reveal of almost fucking everyone listening in on the conversation.

I believe that this is the only part of the exchange where Hong Lu is actually completely genuine.

Considering how fucking loud the themes of objectification and total ownership of people were in just this Intervallo alone, this first sentence is pretty clear. Because we can tell that yeah, Hong Lu had very little agency in his life. He is, by his own words, used to being led by the will of others.

However, it's the two lines that intrigue me. Because I believe there is a degree of emotional vulnerability to them that Hong Lu rarely if ever shows.

A degree of worry and concern that Hong Lu has refused to shown for the entirety of the Intervallo.

While what he says here is very vague, I think it is still very telling.

There is something that makes Hong Lu believe that his turn will be different. Not just will, but has to be. Something that only Hong Lu knows that makes him sure that no matter what, he can't go through the same thing everyone else has.

Which is. Very intriguing. Because there is a very wide range of things that have happened.

It can't be just that he knows he'll fail or something along those lines, because we know it has happened before. Gregor, Rodya, and even to a degree Sinclair all failed in one way or another.

It can't be that he doesn't remember or isn't human, because, again, that's also something we've seen be done before. In the Canto right before his no less!

No, there is something else to it. Something he alludes to in his next line.

I think this is, again, Hong Lu's fatalism rearing its ugly head. There is a cycle Hong Lu has been living in for his entire life. Something that he's done his entire life no matter what happened to him or to those around him.

We've seen Sinners succeed to subvert fate itself. We've seen Sinners fail to do so, unable to change themselves in the moment.

But... have we ever seen a Sinner simply give up completely?

I believe that's what Hong Lu believes his turn will be like. That once worst comes to worst, he won't even be able to try. That he'll simply lie down and take it, as he always has.

He believes that the cycle will continue on repeating, no matter what happens. Because it always has. Because this flow cannot be stopped. Because he can never truly escape his Family.

But here's the thing about that.

Hong Lu is wrong. Because he did break the cycle. Even if just once, even if for just a moment. He did escape, he did take action when it mattered.

...It reminds me of something that Binah said in Ruina after the end of her Floor's Realization.

What truly matters, however, is that the cycle did break at least once.

Hong Lu, whether he believes it or not, has already done the impossible.

And when it has been done once, that means it's no longer impossible.

It can happen again.

And it will happen again.

Destiny be damned.

[unma]

Trash Disposal

You should have been more cautious. More scared.

Everyone spoke of the sweepers as an inevitability. Only the strongest—or the luckiest—could face the waves and survive. Those who didn't were returned to nothingness; they were nought but the whispers on the street for the next night, before yet another wave would arrive and take with it even the idea of you.

And here you were, as the rumbling made itself painfully apparent. They said it was too late by the time the little pebbles by your feet started to shake. If you could hear them? Well, one would pray you could pray—the sweepers didn't allow even that.

The first thought on your mind was that they certainly lived up to the hype.

It felt less like an army and more like a wave. They were a force of nature, a blur of colors that tore through the streets. A mass of noise arose from them, their unintelligible speech melding into a cacophony of vaguely pleasant sound. One could almost call it music, if not for the fear that would overtake one at such a sight.

Your colleague—the one who held the title of your office's leader and had insisted on pushing through with this mission despite the risks—was the first to be devoured. You weren't even sure what happened; the wave simply overtook him and his screams were gone before you even registered he was screaming.

You snapped out of it barely fast enough to block the incoming sickles with your spear. The shock of the weapons against yours seemed to be enough to get the gears in your head moving, as well as the gears of your remaining colleagues, as the streets immediately erupted into battle.

You were surrounded on all sides. The sweepers, those that weren't interested in the small fries that were your group, parted around the battle, forming an inescapable wave that would surely carry and erase anyone who sought to part the sea as a means of escape. It was fight or die. There was no winning, only surviving.

And you did decently too. You weren't sure if it was luck or pure experience, but the sweepers were proving to be equally matched to you. You took a nick here, a gash there, but you'd managed to put three down yourself before you heard it.

Another scream, followed by the squelch of flesh under a blade, over and over again. Before you knew it, whoever it had been was mush.

A quick glance around and you know who it was that perished. Another dear colleague, a name soon to be forgotten. Yet you couldn't even utter it before yet another sweeper demanded your urgent attention.

That single death seemed to break the floodgates, however, as one by one the others followed. They'd barely been holding out, you'd noticed from your previous glances, but now one by one they were dropped, turned into fuel for the endless wave. You didn't dare look, focusing on keeping yourself. Putting the sweepers down one after the other was the only way out.

You didn't need to look. A head came rolling your way as you put a spear through a sweeper's chest.

The sounds of blade clashing had since died down. You were the last of them, it seemed. It was only you left.

You couldn't let it get to you. Faltering for even the slightest moment would get you killed.

But you could feel the pressure building up as they all focused on you. A hit here and there was no longer all, you were being assailed by the full might of just a few sweepers, and you couldn't keep up at all.

Surely you could hold out. Surely if you just pushed through, if you just killed one more, it would be over.

Your spear ripped through a sweeper's heart as you swung with renewed vengeance. You would make it out of this, even if it cost you an arm and a leg. Even if you were battered and bruised, and barely alive. Even if it cost you every—

You were on the floor before you could even process what was happening. A sweeper, the one with your spear through its chest.

It raised its sickle.

The last thing you felt was the ripping of its blades through flesh as it tore through you over and over and over. It felt like an eternity of pain, utter hopelessness enveloping you as you watched yourself get torn to shreds.

Then it was over, all too fast, as if all it had taken was a few seconds, a few swings, to extinguish the little flame that was your life.

Mere minutes later and there was nothing left of you, not even the memory of a fool who didn't listen to his own cautions. Yet another nameless fixer, another existence lost to the wave.

[lu-is-not-ok]

Thoughts on the new Jia candidate? They seem to be at the very least related to Iori, considering their execution of that one guy and the red snake skin wrapped around himself and his companion(?). Makes me wonder if Iori or her disciples are going to make a physical appearance in the Canto.

Alright, let me put things under the cut for the spoiler warning for literally the last two cutscenes in this Intervallo.

When it comes to Jia Qiu, I don't have many thoughts on his place in the world or wider story as of yet.

It's clear that he's a figure that's meant to have quite a lot of renown, one that can be easily believed as being the one people sing about in the Backstreets. One that is so sure of his position in the world that he doesn't even bother finishing off Xichun or Hong Lu due to knowing they don't pose even the tiniest bit of a threat to him.

It's also interesting how he's described. There's a lot of similarities between him and Hong Lu in that way. He's shown to be always serene, almost intimidatingly so. The way he looks at the Sinners, "as though he was gazing upon the clouds or blades of grass", is a direct reflection of how Hong Lu is described earlier in the same Intervallo. In fact, that confident calmness of his is shown to be what makes him so intimidating.

As for the Iori connection... Well, first of all it's made kind of unclear who Actually kills Shi Yihua. Before the execution happens, Zigong comments on the presence of "a serpent", while Jia Qiu tells her to "leave it". After Yihua is killed, Qiu once again repeats to leave this serpent alone, this time directing the order to Zilu.

This, I think, implies that whoever killed Yihua is not actually affiliated with Jia Qiu at all. That 'serpent' who killed him was an outsider, a spy of some kind that Jia Qiu deemed unimportant enough to let live despite the sudden seemingly hostile action.

It's also important to note that the furry trio from the Prologue all have specifically Purple accessories. While Iori's connection with snakes and serpents is an important part of her identity, what's often more important and identifying is the color Purple due to it being a direct part of her Fixer title.

Thus, personally, I believe the serpent could have some connection to Iori, as it has both the purple and the snake imagery to tie it to her.

Jia Qiu and his posse on the other hand not only are implied to not be affiliated with that serpent, but also only have the snakeskin motive, not the color. It's kind of like the Rabbits of R corp and Hares of the Heishou Pack - they're based on similar animals, but are at their core extremely different and unaffiliated.

But. That's not really what I want to talk about.

No, what I want to talk about is what I think Jia Qiu's narrative role might be.

See, here's the thing about Jia Qiu and his posse. Neither him nor anyone following him are directly named after any DOTRC characters.

However, another source for specifically Zilu and Zigong has already been found - they're named after Confucius's disciples. The reason why that's important is that Confucianism plays a major role in DOTRC, with one of the ways it comes up being a notable part of the reason why Baoyu is abused by his father - as Jia Zheng is a Confucian scholar that tries to live by those values, while Baoyu is anything but.

Thus, there are now two camps I see when it comes to theories on who Jia Qiu is meant to be based on.

There is the camp that believes Jia Qiu might be PM's reinterpretation of Jia Zhu, Baoyu's older brother who dies before the events of DOTRC.

There is also the other camp that looks at the references to Confucius's disciples and believes that Jia Qiu is just straight up Confucius himself.

My take? I think he's both. I think he's a composite character of both Jia Zhu and Confucius. And I even have a sound reason for why PM would do that.

Remember how I mentioned that Confucian values are part of the reason why Baoyu is targeted and abused by his father so much? Well, Jia Zhu is the other part of the reason. Jia Zhu, when he was alive, was exactly the kind of son and heir that Jia Zheng wanted. So, when he died, all of those expectations fell onto Baoyu. There's even a point where Baoyu's mother has a moment where she laments that she wishes Baoyu was the one to die instead of Zhu, as Zhu wouldn't have angered his father nearly as much.

I believe that Jia Qiu is meant to represent everything that Hong Lu's family wishes he could be. Everything that Hong Lu can't truly be no matter how much he tries. A combination of the creator behind the values forced upon everyone in the family, and of the family son who was perfect for the role in his family. The ideal heir, the template Hong Lu was meant to fit but never could.

Something tells me he's not going to survive for long.

[lu-is-not-ok]

sweeper intervallo finally arrived! curious on what you think about. All Of That

I have a lot of thoughts that I need to. Categorize in some way. I might have more to say if I'm asked about a specific thing but until then I might not yap a lot immediately.

But, still, here's some general overview thoughts on all of the Intervallo:

We're really in the Fraud circle now ya'll, everyone's a fucking liar here.

Of course we'd be getting so many characters be brought back to relevance in the Intervallo that introduced resurrection as a motif for the approaching Canto. Narrative Resurrection for so many characters.

On a similar topic, that was A Lot of plot threads and even random one-off lines getting payoffs. It really shows that PM is still paying attention and keeping in mind All of the shit they started and Are working towards conclusions for All Of Them.

I NEED HONG LU DEAD RIGHT FUCKING NOW

[lu-is-not-ok]

Reading your thoughts on that particular scene about Hong Lu breaking the cycle and thus destiny, it brings my attention to Ricardo of all people, or more accurately what his presence could possibly represent. While he may have been a humorous random edition to throw in there just because, when you consider the fact that the times he is pretty much is considered a factor outside the "script" that Faust alludes to during Canto V (as she says that they SHOULD not have appeared) because NOBODY ever expects them to show up, not even Zilu, I think things start to get interesting. The fact that one single action set off a course that was never intended. Heathcliff stealing those coupons was an action that was never expected at all, and it would lead to all...this. The fact that of all times, this is yet another time he shows up, right before Hong Lu's "turn". Just like how Hong Lu was conditioned and fatalist to a degree about not being able to escape his family, the fact that he even took up Limbus Company's offer to at least attempt it would eventually lead to him breaking free. A single action that was never anticipated out of him would lead to that path.

I don't even have much to add because deadass you're actually cooking.

Like, Ricardo is a very strange entity narratively like you say, because he's a wildcard. Hohenheim in Check-up mentions that "The flow of this world is that the manager will be preserved", yet Ricardo is genuinely the closest we've ever gotten to just straight up losing Dante. Faust genuinely thought that it was all over.

One small action is enough to change things.

What matters is that the cycle did break at least once.

[lu-is-not-ok]

In the roadmap of this season, the new .5 shown is one seemingly related to the sweepers. Given each of the .5s/second .5s were ones that setup for their next cantos I am wondering what sort of info you wish to glean from it?

I myself am rather interested in sweeper lore generally, so more about that, and perhaps the dynamics between them will again parallel Gong Lu's family. I wonder if Dante’s autotranslate for distortions will allow them to speak with the sweepers, they do seem to be standing in front of them in that teaser image.

I am. So excited anout that intervallo.

So here's a brief list of things I'm excited for, plus maybe a few silly predictions cause why not:

Since we're dealing with Sweepers, we're likely going to be in the Backstreets of whatever District Canto 8 is gonna take place in. I'm really excited to learn more about the worldbuilding for the Backstreets. Plus you fucking know Rodya is gonna have some shit to say about the class disparity, as is often the case.

Sweepers are in this interesting place of having Family-like structures, but having them work in a similar way to Bloodfiend Families - in that one can choose to become part of a Sweeper Family rather than being forced into being born into it. Considering how Fanghunt Hong Lu is the way he is, I hope facing that idea of choosing one's own Family so directly will elicit some sort of reaction out of Hong Lu.

An introduction to a new faction. I doubt they can make Sweepers into IDs (they're not like power armor where you can have the helmets be conditional, nor are they like prosthetics where you can only have a part of the face be replaced), so if they go with Event Identities we're gonna need something else for those. I'm personally hoping for a Syndicate because I like em.

Partially related to the above, I'd love to see a plot that at least partially parallels/references the Sweepers chapter in Distortion Detective. For those who don't know, there's a short arc in DD where Moses and co end up stuck out in the Backstreets during the Night and are forced to weather the waves of Sweepers while looking for shelter. Moses is able to tell they'll be unable to survive through all three waves of Sweepers, so they try to get the people already in hiding to let them in. Eventually, someone does - a group of Thumb members, causing Moses and co to have to make a deal with them to stay overnight. I'm hoping the Intervallo will have some sort of parallel to that, where the Sinners will be forced to make a deal with someone (potentially the faction used for Event IDs hopefully) to survive the night.

In general, some sort of Hong Lu nuclear bomb is inevitable. Something with the same dramatic impact as the Don Quixote being a Bloodfiend reveal at the end of Warp Express. My bet is on a proper reveal that he's a runaway, and that his previously stated reasons for leaving home (alongside perhaps some other things he's said) were a complete lie all along.

Which, speaking of Hong Lu being a runaway. Here's my silly prediction for what setup they could use for the Intervallo's plot that I've been rotating in my head for a bit now. Imagine, if you will, Hong Lu recognising that the District the bus is heading into is his home District. Imagine the panic that would stir within him. What if, in the middle of the night, Hong Lu does what he's tried once before and attempts to run away again. He disappears from the bus, and similarly to that one mini episode where Heathcliff almost got lost to the Backdoor, Faust is immediately concerned over retrieving him. Especially if being turned to liquid by Sweepers is one of those things Dante might not be able to rewind.

[unma]

HEY.

Donqui x Xichun nation I need y'all to suggest ship names or something we need a tag before this because too difficult to track I am taking suggestions

[unma]

We interrupt your regularly scheduled Unma going crazy to bring this to your attention. Image below the cut if you don't want to go to twitter.

[unma]

DonQui simply cannot help herself.

[unma]

I am still obsessed with how the sweepers were done. Three overwhelming waves of enemies that can and will wear you down gradually unless you are at the utmost prepared for what is coming.

I mean, yeah, I was using a rupture team, so you probably would be fine with a bloodfiend team or something, I still think it was well executed.

Persistence + Unbreakable coins means that it is definitely possible for a trash disposal to go through even after you win a clash and stagger them, because you did too much damage, and oops now an id is staggered, and oops^2 here comes another sweeper and oops Bunny Outis is dead.

Also, the way the sweepers literally overwhelm, cover the screen; they will keep moving regardless of what you do. You either kill the stragglers that are trying to kill you or they move on anyway after a while. You cannot stop the sweepers. You pray only a few come for you, and you pray those lose interest fast enough.

And we had the luxury of twelve sinners with the ability to revive. Otherwise, with the boss battle we had literally just gone through we'd be dead.

It's a testament to how strong the Middle is that Ricardo and the little brother were able to keep up even after the battle.

[unma]

if Xichun dies I'm going to cry.

[unma]

I love these two

[unma]

yuri. It's fuckign yuri. It's yuri. They're gonna. They're gonna—💥💥💥

[unma]

my Xichun x DonQui agenda has been revived

[unma]

this is going to be vindicating for some in the fandom I'm sure

[unma]

I feel like this Intervallo has like. Made me re-fall in love with Limbus. Like. New good rupture units, something for me to chew and get obsessed over, Xichun just existing (she and Donqui need to kiss), Hong Lu is going to get fucking obliterated, and— where's that music coming from?

HOLY SHIT IT'S RICARDO WITH THE STEEL CHAIR