#4x14 sex and violence

[creatorofarcadia]

Lord knows I'm gonna regret this because people go buckwild about ships, but look. You can love destiel, I'm happy for you. You don't even need to give me any evidence. Ship characters who haven't even met if you want, I'm not bothered.

But please, I'm begging, stop using the siren thing as evidence for destiel. The siren being Sam isn't even subtext it's just text, what with the 'I gave him what he needed. And it wasn't some bitch in a G-string. It was you' line so there are exactly two ways you can take it.

1. Dean's greatest desire is to have a good relationship with his brother (the siren can take on the shape of platonic desires)

2. Dean's greatest desire is to fuck his brother (the siren can only take on the shape of sexual desires)

You don't have to like option 2, that's fine. But in that case, take option 1 and run with it people. Because if you start trying to argue that:

The siren is evidence that Dean has sexual feelings towards a man, so Dean is bi, therefore destiel. What you're really arguing is Dean has sexual feelings for the illusory, perfect version of Sam.

Like idk guys, I see people joking about how not heterosexual Dean's siren being a man is and... you can totally watch it that way. But the siren isn't just a man he is a very specific man.... his brother.... soooo.

[dean-winchesters-panties]

We need to talk about Sex And Violence (4x14)

In an interview with Jim Parrack(Nick’s actor), he talks about the way the siren controlled the boys and says this:

“…I thought he should be ambiguously sexual. As the FBI agent, he was a guy’s guy, but this creature wasn’t a guy or girl. I tried to find something in between and enjoyed having control over these boys in a sexual way…”

He outright describes his control of the boys as sexual. In the scene in the car with Nick & Dean, he convinces Dean to kill sam so they can be brothers. Theres a sinister but sensual tone throughout that scene that is intensified as it transitions to the hotel.

“…I gave him what he needed. And it wasn’t some bitch in a G-string. It was you…”

There was something very evocative when I first heard this line. I think that it says a lot that a siren, a creature that reads minds and embodies peoples greatest desires, found that what dean desired most wasn’t a beautiful woman, but his brother. Sam is what he desires most.

[spn20rewatch]

Season 4, Episode 14: Sex and Violence (January 3rd)

Men are killing their loved ones while under the influence of a siren. -Super-wiki

Originally aired on: February 5th, 2009

Written by Cathryn Humphris, directed by Charles Beeson.

Fun fact: Jim Parrack, who plays Special Agent Munroe in the episode, did an interview in the Supernatural Magazine about his role (Included in the link is the original pitch, which is very different from the final product).

Enjoy the episode and tag any thoughts with #spn20rewatch!

[shirtlesssammy]

Dean Winchester every day -- 74/326

Supernatural 4x14//Sex and Violence

[schizosamwincester]

Okay I understand that this isn't even the tenth most unhinged thing to happen in Sex and Violence, but like. A penis. That's the head of a penis. They may have decided the poison doesn't technically pass through sex... but they then had the siren ejaculate in Sam's mouth.

These writers. They were on something else. I love it.

Anyway. Good to know Sam spits instead of swallowing.

[cam-ulu29]

I hear one more motherfucker say “hiS sIReN wAs A dUDe he’s so bi” im finna come outta this screen and whop you in the head so hard you fly into an alternate dimension where nobody has to hear your stupid ass opinions listen it was either a dude because he wanted a brother more than a lover or because he wanted a brother for a lover. If it’s romantic, it’s Sam, if it’s platonic, it’s Sam, lemme it say it one more time for you fools the siren tempted him with a ‘better version of his brother’ so if you say that means he’s Bi he’s a brotherfucker siren=Destiel? man I’d hate to see your math homework so let me give you multiple choice instead GENcest or WINcest?

[lovelazarus]

4x14 (35:06 // 39:24)

scarsnatural cataloging

[locke-esque-monster]

Every time I watch 4x14 "Sex & Violence", I'm struck that the boys never put together that the siren's names are all Disney princess names (Jasmine, Aurora, Ariel, Belle).

First, even if it's not something they watched, they know plenty of pop culture, and three of those princesses were from popular Disney movies while they were growing up.

And second, because if they did catch it, they'd notice that Nick Munroe doesn't fit the pattern. A fact I google every time, forgetting it's not the name of any Disney character or actor. It's something that might be an inconsistency or an attempt to hide the twist. But I prefer to think that the siren wasn't sure what they figured out before he met up with them at the hospital and they didn't want to be too obviously the siren being "Agent Eric Prince" or something.

[im-some-lionheart]

so I'm watching the siren episode and.

they really.

they gave dean a male siren.

In order to seduce Dean, the siren turned into a man.

A man who appreciated baby's beauty, and drank with Dean, and listened to Led Zeppelin, and who trusted Dean blindly, and who told Dean to consider him as a "brother"... Oh, gee, I wonder what other character on that same show will later on check all those boxes too

but I digress... the point is they gave dean a male siren. that is a very significant thing that happened.

they wrote and shot and aired that and said "yeah, that's very heterosexual."

[thebeautyofspn]

4x14 Sex And Violence

[deanstudies101]

4x14, Sex and Violence

Critical theory: Devotion. Temptation. Gender and sexuality. [Unfortunately I think we will have to address Wincest here.] 

Discussion: Kai knew Nick was the siren as soon as he complimented Dean’s car, turned and gave me the slyest smile. Iga had no idea and did full hands on head at the reveal. They did both think Cara would also be a siren, like there were two of them. 

Sam should’ve been smarter. They knew they were hunting a siren and he still hooked up with Cara. Did he think it was safe just because she wasn’t a stripper? 

Should Dean have known better? Complicated. It presented very differently. 

They’re cowards for not letting Dean + Nick to be romantic, but does this hit harder? What he wants most is a brother who trusts him, and that he could trust. 

They were both kinda right for what they said—Sam is a better hunter without Dean (think Mystery Spot), Dean is scared to go after demons like Lilith. 

Iga, “Dean needs someone to spoon him. He needs to be the little spoon. He needs someone to protect him.” Kai, “But he needs to protect people.” Iga, “He needs to feel like the big spoon, but be the little spoon.” 

Kai, is Dean’s love language acts of service? [talked about the destiel post about quality time vs. acts of service (@solarmidnight) and how truly tragic this is.] 

[Sam isn’t a better hunter without Dean, he’s a colder hunter without Dean.] He’s a more efficient hunter. Dean’s goal isn't to kill the monster and move on, it's to save as many people as possible. 

Re: wincest. [Nick frames it as a brotherly thing, he’s the brother Dean wants, and sure. But he’s a siren. All of the other seductions are romantic. Always as a woman seducing a man. And he looks at Dean Winchester and says. Nah I’m gonna be a dude.] Kai did think this, when Nick pitted them against each other. Iga, the relationship between Nick and Dean is definitely a hanging out with your bud vibe. Dean wouldn’t accept a romantic seduction, he wouldn’t believe it, and the most important relationship in his life is his brotherly relationship. 

This discussion got a little heated at this point and I won’t be recording the rest of it. We’re making banana bread now to calm down. 

[spnyouresostupid]

[jinkieswouldyoulookatthis]

Sex and Violence

Every single time I see a post about episode 4x14 I get this song firmly stuck in my head.

It's not one you can sing in a lot of places though, lol.

[arsonistsam]

Sam and Dean literally would have killed each other if Bobby wasn’t there ohhhhhh what if Dean had killed Sam and then it wore off ohhhhhhhhhh.

[schizosamwincester]

You know, there's no reason the siren needed to say "I could be your brother." He was just filling in the role of Dean's best friend. It's not like he was anything like Dean's actual brother. He liked the same music and cars as Dean; that's the opposite of Sam. The thing about siblings is that you're stuck with them whether you have anything in common or not. Shared hobbies and interests is generally a friend thing.

Now, from a Doylist perspective, yes, he did have to say that because Supernatural is the "family is hell" show and generally doesn't care that much about friends. A Supernatural episode is supposed to have a moral about either family or fate, and even fate is really an extension of family because their fates are ultimately in their blood, bloodlines, and bodies.

But from the Watsonian perspective? I can think of one reason the siren wouldn't just say "I could be your best friend" when that is obviously what he is. It's that Dean doesn't actually get what the big deal about friends is. Why does everyone need to have a best friend? He'd take Sam over some rando any day. He doesn't get why everyone is always so eager to attach themselves to other people. Friends just seem like more trouble than they're worth and extremely overrated. He's never actually wanted a best friend at all.

Yes, that's right folks, Sex and Violence is yet more proof that Dean Winchester is very, very aplatonic.

[onespncap]

s04e14 -- "Sex and Violence"