#40 gallon breeder

[spitepenny]

tank updates

10g, really a jungle. Cherry shrimp and ramshorn snails but strongly considering fish again

40b. Quite lush...I kind of miss being able to see the hardscape since I worked so hard on the design but I feel like all the plants are better for the fish and inverts 🤷🏼‍♀️

20long...struggling with green hair algae but the inhabitants don't seem to mind

[swagging-back-to]

sooo i just had the thought of putting mochi and sushi in with the main colony instead of getting any more mice and adding them to the future 30 gallon colony....

[ghastbutlikegay]

does anyone have recommendations for like, youtube channels dedicated to small pets? specifically mice but rats are also cool. i wanna look at cool mouse cage setups

[onenicebugperday]

Hey Fishblr!

I just bought a 40 gallon breeder aquarium and plan eventually to keep kuhli loaches in a natural-looking planted scape.

Any ideas for other friends I might keep with them? I prefer strange, silly, interesting, or unusual pals.

I currently only keep neo shrimp and snails in a 10 gal and have kept bettas in the past but have no interest in returning to those.

Thank you for any input I love you

[is-the-snake-video-cute]

Hey, I've tried searching your blog for this but I could only bring up posts advocating against rack systems (rightly so obviously)

I recently got an adult ex breeder BP, she's massive (5'7") and was kept in a 12 gallon bare bones rack tub for her whole life. I got her because a pet shop near me that bred snakes is shutting down, I did pay for her which I feel bad about but they aren't breeding anymore so I guess I'm not funding unethical breeding? Anyway that isn't really relevant I just am rambling

I've heard that taking a BP from a rack system and putting them in their forever enclosure can be really really stressful for them so right now she's still in her tub on my desk but I feel really bad keeping her there.

I have a 6x2x2 set up, I wanted to get a 6x2x3 or 6x3x3 even but couldn't afford it so I'm hoping that's good enough for her.

But how would you transition her to that enclosure? I recently gave my house snake a bioactive enclosure and I love it so the 6x2x2 for the BP has been cycling as bioactive for about 3 weeks (Ive had her 5 days) and seems stable but I'm worried that it's too much and she'll hate it and go off food and stuff (she's quite skinny too:()

But yeah I would really appreciate, if you have the time, any advice on this front. Thank you very much and keep up the good work 👍💟

I just went through this with my new Borneo python, Hobie. Just like your girl, he's spent his entire life in little tubs in racks.

You're right that transitioning a snake like them into their full enclosures is something that should be done delicately! I'll tell you my process and what I do to make it easier for them.

One challenge that you might have is with your enclosure already being set up as bioactive. That's probably going to be quite a bit more overwhelming, and my main concern there is with the lighting. If she doesn't respond well, it's going to be hard to tell if that's because she's just adjusting or because she just doesn't like the lighting (some ball pythons just don't, but unless she's albino or another melanin-reducing morph it's not a bad idea to give it a try).

If it's possible, my idea for you would be try to try transitioning her to a less overwhelming enclosure first. I set my Hobie up in a 40 gallon for now, even though he's going to be moving to a 6x2 later down the line. If you do that, you'd be able to slowly get her used to the lighting once she's adjusted to a larger enclosure itself. If you can't do that, consider adding as much shade as possible for her and even keep the lights off for as much as you can.

Alright, so my process for transitioning former breeder snakes to more appropriate enclosures prioritizes going at the snake's pace and ensuring their comfort.

The first thing I do is put their tub directly into their new enclosure. Just right on top of everything, don't even worry about it. Your goal is keep your snake in a familiar environment while also exposing them to new stuff. Check out Hobie's setup - literally just the tub, substrate, and a water bowl plopped inside the bigger enclosure. You're going to feel tempted to give them lots of new clutter and enrichment - don't. Keep it simple and easy for them, you don't want to overwhelm them!

Then, be patient and let them explore at their own pace. Some snakes will leave their take-home tub almost right away, some will take weeks. Hobie took three weeks before he started feeling comfortable and confident enough to explore outside of it. During this time, offer food and feel free to handle a bit, but keep it short and sweet.

Your snake will likely retreat back to the tub a couple times, but eventually they'll find their new hides and check them out! Wait until they're comfortable - calm, resting, and relaxed inside their new hiding places - and then you can take the tub out.

Once they're comfortable in their full enclosure, it's time to introduce them to enrichment! They'll probably need you to show them their climbing branches and other enrichment items - snakes like them just aren't used to being able to do natural behaviors. Hobie had a great time when he learned he had a swimming pool all to himself!

Take it very slow when you add new things, and don't be afraid to backtrack if your snake gets spooked. Hobie got a little stressed when we tried adding more tunnels for him to check out, but it's fine to take things out and re-add them if your snake isn't ready just yet.

Your snake probably won't know quite how to interact with their environment at first, so just be patient with them! Right now, Hobie's going through a phase where he just hasn't realized he needs to avoid burrowing in substrate that is wet, but short-tails love to soak anyway so it's not a big deal. There will be so many opportunities to find joy in watching them learn and explore!

All the best to you and your girl! It can be a little heartbreaking to get snakes like her adjusted to their new setups, but with time and lots of patience, it doesn't need to be stressful for either of you! Remember to go at her pace and lean into what makes her feel most comfortable.

[itscomingupaces]

We all know Dylan has his cat Schrödinger, do any you think any of the other counselors have pets, either pre-canon or in the future? What kind do you envision for each of them? (I feel like surely Laura the pre-veterinary student would have some critters at least!)

ooh this is a good ask, thank you!

I love pets, so this might be more biased towards having them than not.

Laura: She always had pets, that's a big reason she wanted to go into veterinary medicine. I can see her having a hamster or pet rats in undergrad. When she gets into vet school, she adopts two of the teaching dogs when they retire. By the time she's a full veterinarian, there are like 3 rabbits, two cats, and two dogs in their house. How do they feed them all? Don't question it.

Max: Max grew up with little dogs, and not much else. He now has a small zoo with Laura, see above. His favourite is the big fluffy orange cat they adopted after finding him under their porch with no collar or microchip. They had to shave him down due to mats and then dressed him in little sweaters and Max fell in love.

Dylan: Dylan has Schrodinger, of course. I see him as 100% a cat guy. After the events of the Quarry, he fosters a pregnant cat for a shelter and names all the kittens after famous scientists to keep the theme (Einstein, Oppenheimer, Bohr, Franklin, Curie, etc). He keeps Oppy for himself <3

Ryan: I don't think he grew up with pets, and he wasn't sure if he really wanted any. I can see him inheriting a little Betta fish in a bowl from a roommate in art school, and he researches how to properly care for it. From there he gets into fishkeeping. It starts with that betta in a 3 gallon tank, then 5 gallons, then he gets a 40 breeder off like marketplace for $20 and he discovers live plants and tropical schooling fish. If he and Dylan get together, he spends too much time trying to keep the cats away from his tanks lol

Emma: I'm not sure what Emma would have. Maybe something like an Italian greyhound, it sits in the background of videos like a little derp. Or she ends up rescuing a bunch of mutts from the shelter.

Abi: I can see Abi having a bonded pair of rabbits! Or a medium sized dog like a Labrador Retriever. Something soft and friendly that can help her with her anxiety if she gets overwhelmed at home.

Kaitlyn: I love the idea of Kaitlyn having a big pittie or Rottweiler or Doberman, something with scary dog privilege but is really a big baby

Jacob: He gets a golden retriever because he is a golden retriever boyfriend.

Nick: I think he would have something more exotic, like an iguana or a cockatiel.

[kedreeva]

Ooc, how many mice do you keep together in 1 enclosure max? Like for your pets/non breeder mice n' stuff (assuming you have them.) I've heard some people say after 6 it becomes unstable but it can be done, what's the most you've ever kept together?

Those people are fools

I don't have any that are just pets right now but my self black colony is like 12 mice in an enclosure. Provided you're keeping does, mice don't care, they do not give a single fuck. They love big colonies. Haven't you ever seen those videos where someone like, moves something on a farm and 27 gabillion mice come pouring out like water? They choose that. They prefer that. They are SO social. I put 17 mice from different cages into a big tote last night (so I wouldn't have to try to do it this morning at 4:45am with my brain offline) with 6 hides to choose from and they picked the biggest one and c r a m m e d themselves all into one because they just wanna hang out together. I see folks talking about how if you have a really big enclosure like 40 gallons (which you shouldn't because that's terrible, mice get so stressed out in large spaces, most people are not equipped to properly utilize a space that big for mice in a way that doesn't stress them) you shouldn't be keeping less than 15-20 does in it because it stresses them out to be so alone otherwise, and they're right. Unstable? What are those people fucking doing to their mice that they have such terrible personalities they can't have more than 6 before they melt? How fucking stressed out are their poor mice?? What the fuck is happening over there

[great-and-small]

how do you feel about aquatic turtles as pets vs tortoises? i don't know anything about herp care but i like hearing about them, are novice owners more likely to meet the needs of species that isn't waterfaring? it feels like as soon as a tank with water gets involved the potential for neglect skyrockets

Such a good question and honestly one that I think about a lot. I think in general my opinion of chelonians (turtles and tortoises) in captivity is roughly equivalent to my opinion on reptiles in general being kept as pets. That is to say, a handful make great pets, many of them can be well cared for by a well-educated and experienced keeper, but the majority of species are not ideal as pets. Although I do feel some tortoises are a little easier to manage than aquatic turtles, they also present their own unique challenges that have to be considered. I also have some overlapping concerns regarding the keeping of both tortoises and turtles as pets.

For both turtles and tortoises I have three primary concerns.

Firstly, conservation of these animals has reached a critical state, and the pet trade absolutely contributes to this for many species. I am publishing research on a critically endangered species of tortoise and almost all of the videos about them on YouTube are “unboxing” videos by private keepers who acquired them to keep as pets. Ideally anyone seeking a turtle would ensure the animal was captive bred by an ethical breeder (ideally one that works with a biologist/herpetologist). Capturing a wild invasive turtle is another way to ethically procure a turtle, for example RES are considered extremely invasive in many places.

Second, you guessed it- the husbandry! Although many turtle species do really well in human care I personally wouldn’t call any of them a beginner species. The aquatic species need either a carefully managed 50-100 gallon (at least) indoor tank or an outdoor enclosure that will protect them from predators and prevent escape. That’s not even touching on their often complicated dietary needs. Smaller tortoises are probably a little less high maintenance when it comes to enclosure management but many do best in an outdoor environment, which cannot be provided in all climates. In my opinion the larger species like sulcatas and aldabras will need an enclosure roughly equivalent to what you would provide a couple of goats, and the goats are far less likely to tunnel their way out of the yard! Like many other reptile species, there is a lot of room for error in the care of turtles. The majority of health issues that we see in these guys in the veterinary field are related to issues with their husbandry. It requires a diligent keeper to keep them healthy.

My third concern with keeping these species as pets is their lifespan. Many, many species of tortoises that you can buy on a whim at a pet store have the potential to live more than a hundred years. That is an enormous commitment for anyone to make and it should not be taken lightly. You might not be thinking of it when buying an adorable tennis ball sized baby tortoise but who is going to take in and provide dedicated care for a 200lb adult tortoise in 50 years when you’ve died? Even the sliders can easily live to be 40 years old. It sounds morbid but I think anyone with a long lived species like this has the responsibility to make arrangements should their animal outlive them.

This doesn’t mean that I feel nobody should ever have aquatic turtles as pets. If I ever have the means I would love to have an outdoor turtle pond with captured invasives or non-releasable aquatic turtles! In my experience turtle owners adore their pets and work really hard to care for them, I just feel the husbandry needs are a bit more advanced than people anticipate. Some turtles can really thrive in the right hands, but they’re not a low maintenance animal and I sincerely wish they weren’t quite as ubiquitous as an easily accessible household pet.

[bufomancer]

My plan for Tuesday (my next day off) is to finish getting the 4x2x2 and the pond ready for Freak to move in. Wiley, one of my foster hamsters, is getting adopted that day too.

Peanut Butter Cup & Oreo are 4 years and 3 months now and definitely getting older. When they pass- which I expect to be sometime this year but hope won’t be anytime soon- I will give their 75 gallon to Neon & Cobalt. Then, I will possibly move my female mice into the 40 breeder? Or store it, idk.

Two Scoop is older but not showing it yet so I expect to have at least most of the year left with him. But eventually, his 75 gallon will go to either Mac & Cheese my foster gerbils (that I suspect won’t be leaving me ever, since they’re both plain brown & gerbils aren’t very popular) orrr possibly to Squeakers one of my foster hamsters that I have been very tentatively debating keeping.

Moo, Blacky, and Fuzznuts are going to be picked up by their owner in the first week of April. Then I will have 3 more enclosures to go in storage which will give me SO MUCH more room in my pet room!

4 of my 7 rats are on the older end unfortunately. Sniper is 2 years and 2 months, then Radish, Sunny, and Bandit are 1 year and 7 months. So not Old old but middle aged for sure. I don’t expect to have Sniper extremely much longer (though he’s in great health for his age). Likely when I get down to only 3-4 rats I will go down from the quad back to just a double critter nation. Then I can move the degus into the pet room and upgrade Chalupa the foster chinchilla to a double critter nation (currently in a single) unless he’s been adopted by then.

I have no other planned upgrades or acquisitions. Obviously I can’t predict what will get surrendered, though.

Just some general thoughts. It helps me to keep a clear idea of what I’m going to do as my older animals pass, it helps me to kind of prepare myself for their passing. And having a clear plan prevents me from impulse decisions.

[brainrothawks]

not done setting up for the beardie yet but i have mostly everything so i figured i’d get a head start on it. It’s a 40 gallon breeder tank for now. I plan on upgrading it soon to a proper size of 120 gal. Also he is eventually going to get on loose substrate but I want to get him checked by a vet first to make sure he’s 100% healthy.

[dogwise]

Sorry no q about your dog. How big does a terrarium for two adult hermit crabs need to be? Everywhere it says 30 x 30 cm, but that doesn't seem right.

No worries!! Crab questions are just as good!!!

The general advice is 10 gallons per crab so two would need a 20 gallon tank. Theoretically, three little could be housed in a 20 gallon but you would wanna upgrade to a larger one when they start growing to prevent aggression. I have my 4 boys in a 40 gallon breeder 😊

[spitepenny]

Lemon the bristlenose pleco eats some sweet potato

One of the rabbit snails attempts a ring trick

[i-m-snek]

Hello! I was wondering if you could give me some advice on enclosure size. I know you mostly specialize in pythons, but I was wondering if you knew whether or not a forty gallon tank would be big enough for a Northern Redbelly? Im sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, there’s just not much information on them on google and your the first blog I found that I knew was being run by someone actually knowledgeable and caring lol also I am wanting to make it a bioactive enclosure if that makes any difference

Hi there! From what I'm seeing, redbelly's are a fairly small snake, only around 10 inches long as adults, so a 40 gallon should be fine :)

You should know though, these are a slug eating species. So if you don't have constant access to slugs, you sadly won't be able to properly feed them. I also am unaware of any breeders for this species so any redbelly you get will likely be wild caught. It's likely you already have, but be sure to research the species as much as possible! You can also join the facebook group Diminutive Colubrids, that is likely the best place to get info on these guys as that entire group specializes in colubrids smaller than 2 feet long. I'd recommend starting your own breeding group of slugs, that way you always know you'll have access to them :) Good luck! :)

[hamsternostalgia]

Hello, I'm thinking of getting a Chinese dwarf hamster and I want to make sure they will have the best home I can offer with the space I have. I admittedly haven't had a hamster since I was a child. What would you suggest?

Omg hi thank you so much for sending this ask this has literally made my day to get to talk husbandry <3

This post will probably get long so I'm going to put in a break shortly! I'll title sections so you can skim fr whatever info you'd like easily!!!

Chinese (Dwarf) Hamster Cages

(just some random stuff before we get into husbandry):: To preface, while Chinese Hamsters aren't 'technically' dwarf hamsters, they are still referred to as such in pet stores and in most resources outside of the hamster community, but when I refer to a Chinese Hamster it's the same thing!

Out of the 5 species of hamsters in captivity this is also the hardest one to find, they generally don't sell well due to their mouse like appearance (which imo makes them the most interesting species), as well as because they are a almost exclusively solitary species unlike 'true' dwarfs. If you're buying from a pet store be sure they actually have some before you go, if through a breeder or a rescue it'll probably be much easier (but if from a breeder/rescue definitely check their minimum adoption requirements as they vary from organization to organization).

The males have.. very large testicles. It looks very silly but does not affect them so do not worry if your hamster is really silly looking, it adds to their charm.

All husbandry advice will be based on US standard, please note that the recommended standard often differs wildly from country to country, I will be referencing both the CHA and the OHC though as the CHA sucks and is full of insane people who are literally a clique and will come for people not in their clique (specifically referring to breeders). The OHC has a majority of the same breeders on their list but the people who run the association itself are less insane.

The minimum recommended size for a healthy happy dwarf hamster is 450sq inches, or at least 30"x15" (per https://ontariohamsters.ca/). Lets look at some options:

Bin cage: These are incredible since they're sooo versatile. If you decide you'd like to make a bin cage (using a storage bin with added ventilation) this will be the cheapest housing option. The smallest recommended size is a 110 qt sterilite bin, but any size larger in that brand or the largest IKEA SAMLA bin are also acceptable! If you have the space to do a larger enclosure, also look at 200 qt bins and xmas tree bin. Check out this video on how to ventilate since I am silly and cannot use my brain right now to explain it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuWsbPrF04

The main thing to avoid is bins with wheels underneath, the plastic over the wheels bumps up inside and makes for a great spot to chew and escape from!

Tank: Tanks are great for allowing for the most bedding possible, and functionally prevent any messes the ham could make. You'll want to look for a 40 gallon at least, if you have a petco near you they regularly (like 5-6 times a year) do a sale where they offer half off on all their tanks (its going on right now actually) so a 40 would be $60 currently. 55 gallon tanks are technically smaller, but they are very tall and allow for a LOT deeper bedding and more climbing enrichment, and 60 and 75 gallon tanks have the same floor space as each other, but the 75 is taller. If you decide on a tank you'll need to order the tank lid online for any size over a 40 (sometimes pet stores have the 40 lid in stock), make sure to get a reptile terrarium lid!

Similarly there are also Acrylic and wooden enclosures. You'll want them to have the ventilation on the lids or very high up on the sides to prevent them from attempting to escape, but I recommended looking into the brands Bucatstate, Niteangel, and Pawhut (before you buy though look for 'clones' of the cages by niteangel because you can find cheaper than their prices for almost everything they sell).

Wire Cage: These are awesome for allowing for hanging enrichment like toys and shelves, but chinese hamsters are very small so you need bar spacing of at most 3/8". The Prevue 528, Savic Hamster Heaven Metro, and Crittertrail Super Habitat are all awesome options! These can all be purchased online, but Petco sells the Crittertrail Super Habitat and the Hamster Heaven can also be purchased from many Pet Supermarket locations if you have those near you!

That's a Prevue 528 set up below!

Connectable Cages: If you were wanting a Syrian Hamster (also called golden hamster, teddy bear, black bear, fancy hamster, etc) these wouldn't be possible at all since the tubes cannot accommodate a syrian hamster, and they are honestly HELL to deal with because occasionally they'll pee in the tubes and you'll have to take it all apart to clean it, but you do technically have one option for connectable cages with dwarf hamsters if it interests you. The Crittertrail Super Habitat is about 500sq inches, and features 1 connection port. You can attach connectable cages to that as long as you can maintain them. You don't really want to do only small cages connected to each other, hamsters may be burrowers in the wild but they are also major explorers. If their entire enclosure simulates a burrow they will want to escape that burrow to explore. You want a large main enclosure to allow them to have a 'surface', and to give them the option to burrow on their own (the small ones never have enough room for bedding ugh). The pros to connectable cages is that you can have different areas that are easier to maintain, and chinese hamsters are quite agile so they tend to enjoy being able to explore. If you decide to ever use tubes in your cage, try not to have any straight up and down sections larger than 3-4 inches, if they fall within the tube from any higher they're able to get injured quite easily.

(sorry couldn't find many good set up pics for this option since this style of enclosure has fallen out of style in the last few years for easier, larger setups)

As far as enclosures go those are your primary options! If you have specific questions about other aspects of their care, please let me know!!! I just didn't wanna overload this one post with too much info...

[is-the-snake-video-cute]

does this apply to snakes also

I wish. Pet stores are very bad for recommending 40 gallon glass tanks for adult ball pythons, but hobby breeders can also be awful for pushing minimalist keeping.

Thankfully, there are a lot of great breeders who encourage keeping snakes in appropriately-sized enclosures, but there unfortunately more who think keeping snakes in barren, too-small racks is appropriate.

[kedreeva]

Is there any specific care guides for mice you can recommend? I have rats and have been keeping them a long time, how similar is their care? I have a spare 40 gallon breeder and I've been thinking about getting mice for awhile, how many mice would be a good number for that size enclosure?

Guides, no, as I've never used a pet guide. I've talked about mouse enclosures before, it'll be under my /mice tag. My best advice for guides is take it with a grain of salt. Ask keepers if something sounds off.

As for a 40g, personally I wouldn't use something that large or deep without ventilation. Mice don't like open spaces, it stresses them. So the work you'd have to do to fill a 40g with enough stuff to keep them chill is ridiculous. People will try to argue things like oh well they have the whole world/house as their home in the wild, and this boggles me because okay, yeah they do and they chew out a small tight space they can hide in and if you've seen one they're basically stressed and terrified they're going to get eaten constantly. Anyway. Bigger isn't better when it comes to mice, unless you're aiming for bioactive in which case no you aren't. Don't do that.

The other thing is ventilation. A glass aquarium doesn't have it. You can get an aquarium fan to attach to the top to circulate air and dry the bedding but honestly it's better to just build a bin cage. There's a lot of DIY guides if you just search "DIY mouse bin." It's basically a standard storage tote with 1-4 windows cut in the sides that have been patched with hardware cloth. This allows air flow and prevents ammonia buildup. It's cheap to do. It provides a good amount of space for around 6 mice.

If the 40g is what you want to use, get the fans and start looking into how to get a bunch of small cardboard boxes or where to get a bunch of wooden hides you can stack and arrange. Personally in my one larger aquarium enclosure, I like cardboard because I don't have to clean it- I can just go compost it when it gets soiled. They also chew their own paths through the boxstravaganza, which gives them something to do and means each setup is unique.

The rule of thumb for mouse density in pets is usually 1 mouse per 50square inches of floor space. HOWEVER "floor space" is a little nebulous. Horizontal space that's above floor level, like an extra shelf or other raised flat surface, particularly if it has extra stuff for them like hides or enrichment activities, can count towards that total. My 30g has 360 inches of floor space on the bottom level, but it's got 3 levels of varying floor spaces. So at most it has 12 mice even though literal bottom floor space would only "allow" 7 (though granted it usually only has 6-8 because there are does out for litters), because it has a lot of raised floor space.

As for rats vs mice, it's really not that different. Slightly different nutritional needs and don't keep male mice together unless you know what they're doing because unlike rats, male mice often fight to the death.