#-i started writing out of sequence because I didn't wanna think about the actual scene itself.....

[aberooski]

Why does it feel like every time I cap off a scene the last few sentences are the most shit thing I have ever written in my life????

[genericpuff]

I was kind of curious: What do you think of Persephone's therapy scenes in episodes 160-161?

I personally liked them, but you and many other LO critics always seem to see things that totally flew over my head (I mean that in a positive way).

I think the idea behind them was fine, just the execution that felt really half-baked. Rachel doesn't like scenes to sit too long so the therapy scene, of course, wound up being rushed in the course of 2-3 episodes (meaning she had to have Persephone dump everything all at once) and while Persephone's dialogue is handled relatively well, the direction of the scene itself feels entirely mismanaged (which is both a side effect of Rachel's directionless writing and the fact that she clearly doesn't want to do more than one of these kinds of episodes so she needs to speedrun it).

TRIGGER WARNING: Discussion concerning sexual assault ahead!

Like, let's start with Persephone's intent in going to therapy. Wanting to pursue therapy doesn't just happen suddenly, there's usually a "trigger event" to make someone realize "I need help", whether it be hitting rock bottom or even just going "I feel like I don't have the skills or tools necessary to deal with what I'm dealing with, I need a professional opinion".

Despite Eros advising her to go to therapy all the way back in S1 to address her assault-

-she actually finally goes to therapy in S2 not to address the assault, but to address... how she feels insecure in comparison to Hera who she just found out Hades had a long-term affair with??? At least that's definitely the implication.

And then of course the therapy session itself segues immediately into "Persephone is a high achiever and it's because of her mom being overbearing" which Rachel doesn't connect at all to either the SA or her feeling insecure compared to Hera (which, by the way, barely even has anything to do with her, but she didn't - and still doesn't - have the emotional maturity or self-respect to realize that Hades is a serial cheater-)

That's where the first therapy episode cuts off, and then the next episode immediately opens with Persephone writing her entire backstory on a whiteboard, so we can assume time has passed and she's talked about everything from her childhood up until this point.

Then we get Chiron asking Persephone... what could go wrong if she leaves TGOEM??

Even though we never saw any of the actual sequence so it just feels like a question that's coming out of nowhere? Like did Persephone say during that schpeel that she wanted to leave TGOEM? Isn't that something we should have seen to connect these two trains of thought?

Ah, right, because we have to get into Hades. Because this comic fails the Bechdel test so hard it can't even have a character talk about their trauma or childhood without it seguing into "well there's this one specific main character guy I just really wanna sleep with-"

Don't get me wrong, if Rachel is trying to "deconstruct purity culture" here, I can get her angle with this, if Persephone has been "groomed her entire life" to be an eternal maiden then there's clearly some thought processes about sexual attraction there that are being challenged by her attraction to Hades. But it just feels so rushed purely for the sake of getting her through her trauma and childhood problems and everything that Rachel tacked onto her backstory (in an attempt to make her seem more than just a self-insert) so that Rachel can get her back on track to sleeping with Hades, the one and only man she's clearly ever felt sexual attraction to enough to want to leave TGOEM and question her entire childhood.

And then we get this and I just-

Like first of all, again, Persephone being a complete airhead and not realizing that it has less to do with her possibly being an inadequate partner and more to do with Hades being a serial cheater who also used her as an emotional affair partner;

but ALSO the fact that the conclusion is some "eureka" moment of "you're a bad decision maker" ??? I was a fan of the comic still when this scene happened and even I went "huh?"

Like she doesn't bother to try and connect it to everything she just learned and said about her childhood and how she wants to be the "perfect daughter" who will make everyone happy, Chiron just reduces it to "oh you just suck at making decisions". As if "sucking at making decisions" isn't like, a reactionary extension of deeper problems. She's treating it as if Persephone is some "puzzle" to be solved and her being a "bad decision maker" was the answer when it's undoubtedly just one of many side effects of her upbringing. It feels like she's addressing the cough and not the virus.

Also a little off topic but-

Gotta love how we've never seen Persephone actually employ this homework from her therapist because she's constantly stapled to Hades and the only thing she cares about is his happiness. Literally, I don't think Persephone could possibly answer that question because she's never been independent enough to even learn what makes her happy - she's jumped from wanting to make her mother happy to wanting to make Hades happy but we're supposed to condemn the former and celebrate the latter.

Buuut of course we don't get her answering that question because again, Rachel can't spend more than 30 seconds on a single scene because that would demand too much writing and thought from her. So we cut to Hera having a discussion with Asclepius regarding her scars re-opening, yadda yadda.

By the time we cut back to the therapy session at the start of the next episode (that's three episodes that have been spent basically accomplishing nothing because none of the thought threads tie together in a meaningful way beyond what the audience has to assume) Chiron is conveniently wrapping things up and it's then and only then does Rachel try to actually incorporate the SA plotline that was Persephone's ORIGINAL MOTIVATION in going to therapy.

Now, the scene for the most part is fine, I don't really like how the therapy session was written leading up to it, but her describing her freeze response and how she feels guilty she couldn't "fight back" is a very real feeling that I can definitely say was well written.

My one gripe with it though - and sure, this might be nitpicky, but here me out - is this:

I don't particularly like that Chiron the therapist just found out about her patient being a rape victim - someone who's also said she doesn't like people grabbing her / touching her without her consent - and then decides the best course of action is to comfort her... while touching her.

Now I want to make it perfectly clear, it's not against the law or even the code of ethics to make physical contact between a therapist and their patient. Loads of patients have made breakthroughs with their therapists that have called for hugs and while some therapists may not be okay with it, there are definitely therapists who are who fully understand that hugs in those moments are the best thing for a person. But it's still a general boundary that is there and even with patients who aren't victims of SA, consent needs to be asked for / given.

So Chiron just... coming over and touching Persephone on the knee, while undoubtedly seen as a "warm and comforting act" by those who have had similar sessions with their own therapists or even just those who have no clue and see it on the surface level as being "sweet", really irks me, because it just seems so tone deaf to do with a character like Persephone who is supposed to be a victim of having her bodily autonomy taken away from her.

Again, it's a small criticism, and undoubtedly a nitpick in the eyes of some, but a simple "can I give you a hug?" from either Chiron or Persephone would have gone a long way in accomplishing Persephone's need for consent and bodily autonomy a lot more than just having Chiron come up and touch her leg without her consent. Please, for the love of god, let Persephone have some autonomy, asking for consent doesn't ruin the moment.

And that's pretty much it, Persephone talks about how she feels like she's tethered to Apollo, and Chiron assures her that's not the case, session over, Persephone goes outside to Hades aaaand notice how we never actually tackled that "I feel insecure because of my partner having former partners?" thing? Notice how the best we got was her talking about her fears of being an "inadequate partner" which focused entirely on her not being "enough" for Hades and being a "bad decision maker" rather than pointing out 1.) Hades' own faults in being a serial cheater that would undoubtedly contribute to her insecurities and 2.) what Persephone could do for Hades rather than what Hades could do for Persephone? It's always "I don't know if I'm good enough for him" and never "I don't know if he's good enough for me."

Yet another F-- on Lore Olympus' Bechdel test. Every single thing tacked onto Persephone's backstory is meant purely to get her with Hades - TGOEM is just an obstacle preventing her from having sex with Hades, the assault is just a framing device to show how much "better" Hades is for Persephone than Apollo, her overbearing childhood is just to show how much more "free" she is now that she's not living with her mother and is living with Hades instead, etc.

No agency, no autonomy, no character, even when it tries.

[kerryweaverlesbian]

sometimes i think about the gadreel telling dean to kick cas out plotline and am filled with more rage than you can imagine. its NOT even that like. dean was mean to cas or anything im sure he gave cas money or something bc i cant see a world where he kicked cas out with nothing and he was pretty forthright about caring about cas during that sequence where cas wasn't allowed in the bunker.

but its SOOOO obvious the only reason cas didn't get to stay in the bunker was because of the hand of the author. they didnt wanna change the status quo of the show. im not even talking about destiel im talking about the fact that castiel being human, and potentially learning to enjoy being human with his best friends, would destroy the rest of the season's planned plotline for him. he would've just gone completely human and not wanted to be an angel anymore. this would've also meant he could've went on more hunts much earlier than he did in the actual show, and his dynamic with both brothers could've developed during the downtime between him being safe in the bunker and the rest of the season's plotline moving (bc lbr the season plotline doesn't pick up again until holy terror, and this isn't a bad thing its just very obvious)

(although i still stand by that if you wanted to actually successfully pull off the rest of the season you could just have him be kidnapped later, hear that ezekiel is dead, and then have him make the call to become an angel again in order to be able to escape and help dean. like the phonecall where dean is like "and you're okay with that?" re: cas being an angel again would've hit a lot harder bc dean would've been able to pick up on his enjoyment of some aspects of being human)

also the doylist reasoning behind not letting him spend time with cas is also to isolate dean so he starts working with crowley when the gadreel reveal happens.

also lets be fucking real the sexual tension between human cas and dean would've been off the charts they were like we cant fucking write that the fucking (heller comrade) traitors on our writing team WILL make it gay we CANT do that.

sorry for this essay im just. its one of the biggest wastes of potential in the show.

So true bestie. The hiatus between season 8-9 was my first in the fandom and we were all CERTAIN that Destiel was going to happen from how gay the last couple of episode were (THE CRYPT SCENE. THE ARROW IN THE BAR.) And then. Then. I mean like people were convinced every season hiatus but there was something in the air for that one. And that thing was destiel. So they stopped letting them hang out.

On the bright side, I enjoy how horrible the experience is for Dean having to lie to both Sam and Cas because I'm a sicko. And it's very funny. He was SO close to having everything he wants (Sam alive and well. Hell closed. Cas with them permanently.) And he can't have that because of one, shall we say, social faux pas. And every day someone is asking him with genuine kindness and love "but Dean, isn't happiness directly in your grasp? Don't you want to grasp it?" And he has to go. Through gritted teeth. "No. I like it like this. This is happiness for me. It's my choice."

It's cringe comedy, it's a comedy of errors, it's lies on lies on lies. It's funny! Especially since Sam just sort of decides to find Cas incredibly charming this season out of nowhere. Just to twist the knife that Dean has to make the problem. So, it might help to reframe it that way haha.

And also, 9.06 is GREAT FUN for me in particular. Ohhh we want to be together so bad but even if we say it nothing will change so we won't and we're both bitter about it but damn do I love you. Catnip for me. It has its problems but the NIP.

I do think that a more charitable part of the Doyalist explanation is a problem they run into very noticeably in s10, 11 and 12: they only have enough money designated for a certain number of guest star appearances. That's why he's "watching The Wire" so often lol. This is an assumption of mine but like. That's gotta be the reason. So they wanted something for Cas to be out there Doing when he's offscreen for long periods (and they were just like 'fuck it' in later seasons)

This is a tangent but I think it's so interesting how obvious in Supernatural it is that practical constraints affect the material plot. All monsters are guys in suits. Season 3 is cut short from the writers strike so Dean goes to Hell. Cas and Mary can't be in as many episodes that they obviously should be in so their character flaws are that they're flakey and often disappear. They couldn't get JDM for a season 3 episode of Dean's nightmare so they had Dean's biggest fear in fact be succumbing to his own self-hatered.

Anyway. In conclusion, season 9 sucks. I agree.

[lpsgirl109]

Ok but since we're all gonna die (/ref) can we actually discuss how kind of insane it is how little sm:mm matters to the overarching storyline of the insomniac universe

Like I genuinely believe if you were to erase the game from the timeline entirely, the only person this would affect is Aaron. Not even Miles. Aaron. That's it. The game is so insignificant that the main character of the game wouldn't change at all if it never happened. And that's really absurd when you consider how genuinely traumatic the events of sm:mm would be to Miles. Imagine you're tasked with protecting the city on your own for like a week and in that time, this mafia terrorist group pops up and starts causing shit, you find out your best friend is leading it, a whole ass gun war breaks out in the streets that definitely killed several innocents, and said best friend gets blown up. By you. You blew up your best friend. And you're telling me none of this matters to Miles in msm2??

and like I'm not even saying that the events of that game should've been a Huge major focus in this one. Obviously the game should focus more on the current story its trying tell than past events. But like. God. SOMETHING to acknowledge it happened at least. And no, various easter eggs around the map that you could go the entire game without ever finding don't count.

This is why it irks me so much that Phin was excluded from Miles's nightmare sequence, the scene in which he's being tormented by fake versions of all the people he feels like he failed. I really feel like the childhood best friend That He Blew Up would've fit perfectly there. And I've said this before but the only excuse I'm accepting for her not being in that scene is that Jasmin Savoy wasn't available to do it, because at least at that point its kind of out of the writers' hands. Otherwise it really feels to me like Insomniac just didn't care enough.

I also don't wanna hear any "Well maybe they don't wanna acknowledge sm:mm because it's badly written!! Maybe they don't wanna talk about Phin too much because she was badly written!!" Because. Really? You're gonna pretend the game about your black protagonist didn't happen just because it wasn't very good? The game that YOU didn't write very good? That just feels like excuses. Like, I agree that sm:mm wasn't written very good!! Absolutely!! But that's no reason to skip out on potential character arcs for Miles, especially when he, the black protagonist of these games, already gets pretty sidelined in favor of the white protagonist

My biggest hope for msm3 is that Miles's arc in that game centers around overcoming the trauma of like, Everything he's gone through thus far. He's already pretty much tackled what happened to his dad, now it's time for him to face everything else. And I think we already have the perfect set up for this, considering he's been left in charge of the city again, and the last time this happened everything went to shit in the worst ways possible. Have it be something about how the whole Underground Roxxon incident makes him doubt if he has what it takes to handle everything on his own again, and with the help of everyone he loves, he learns to push past all of that and feel more confident in himself. My awesome buddy @fun-k-boards also mentioned once that having Cindy as a potential step sister now could remind him a lot of his relationship with Phin, and I think that's a really sweet way to not only work Phin into the story but give Cindy a lot of significance to Miles's story

Honestly I just. Really hope msm3 makes this game significant to the story again. Like can we please all agree how wild it is that sm:mm doesn't really matter to anything at all

[may-bonne]

Assignment anon. I'm shy 👉👈 lol. Looking forward to 2nd fic!

-A nervous duck going for a handful of cheerios is the perfect way to describe that kiss lol. I also like the uncomfortable shifting and loud awkward sniff when he meets Johnnie in the diner a second time. The way he leans down super far to sip his coffee too

-The "NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!" is so funny. Imagining myself as the person who heard that coming through the walls and complained

-I know Frank is supposed to be tough or whatever but I wish we could've gotten a few tears while destroying the room. Not actual crying but just wet shiny eyes from the anger and distress. I mean he did suddenly wake up with tits he didn't ask for and his dick gone

-I think another good part of the accent is when he calls Johnnie and goes "Ya wanna meet for a CAWFEE?" There was serious emphasis there

-Frank is 100% not the type of guy to wear a real binder (idk maybe somebody could convince him to wear the kind that look like undershirts) but why does he have to do the sloppiest binding job known to man with that tape. Why not use ace bandages at LEAST

-He slipped into acting like he was willing to show creep assistant his rack too easily. I really needed him to seem more awkward. You know he's a shitty actor

-There should have been more scenes of people not recognizing him or generally being all ummm...

-What year is supposed to be if they're using flip phones and pay phones? It doesn't feel y2k

-I cannot blame the curly haired doc for seeming like he hated his life when he had to listen to Doc Jane ramble

that's okay anon i'm grateful for you anyway <3

since yesterday i've had 1000 more thoughts about this movie. i had to save this as a draft and switch to computer 'cause my thumbs started aching

the breast grope/fingering/darth vader NOOOO sequence is honestly the best part of the whole thing. egregious she didn't get an oscar nom but the academy snubbed girlfight too so what can you expect, really

the accent is consistently rough but there's not a single pronunciation as ridiculous as the way katarin bloodrayne says "my FAHthuh" so i'll let it go. i just commented this somewhere else but i think a director thinking mrod is a good choice for convincing accent work is a strong indicator that some other questionable choices will be made

the tape made me wince. that skin is already stretched THIN. he's gonna rip his nipples off. also i think it's kind of funny that because they were working with mrod's real breasts it looks like the doctor really exercised restraint. yeah maybe it was more conducive to her experiment to give him something realistic but if i were her i'd be giving frank fat fucking tits just for the hell of it

yes there was WILD vacillation between him being supremely awkward with johnnie and then seeming very chill about being a chick in literally every other situation. i'm glad this movie exists just because i think it proves that maybe portraying convincing sexual chemistry is just not mrod's strong suit no matter who she's playing against and it's not just a guy thing. except when she rested her forehead against johnnie's. that was cute

related: i would love to know what the fuck frank said to johnnie the first time they met considering he seemed to think "i want to take off your clothes" was a compelling offer

also related: i guess that first scene with johnnie was supposed to establish frank as some kind of suave womanizer but i CANNOT imagine he was that great at sex before. when johnnie tells him that she prefers being eaten out or whatever to just having that thing rammed into her it's going to knock his fucking socks off. i'm going to write that into the next fic actually

no idea when it comes to the year. it doesn't look like 2016. i thought maybe they were using flip phones for crime reasons but in my head it's maybe like 2009

anyway: to me the core problem with the plot is that it's not clear what the point even is of the whole revenge spree!! i understand killing honest john and jin tao but what the fuck did earl and joe and vladimir and the nicaraguans whose names i can't remember have to do with anything? they had no part in actually getting frank to the doctor. and frank can't have been that opposed to dogfighting or pimping or whatever because he was working for those guys! killing them just to get back at honest john barely makes any sense either because it's not like we saw them all having a family dinner or something. when frank finally confronted him, john didn't seem cut up at all! if the plan was to cripple him financially or intimidate him i don't think it achieved shit because she straight-up killed him like a week later and also i can't imagine that the result of just murdering the top brass was that all the girls and dogs got to go free. i'm not saying she can't just be acting irrationally but that's not how a movie is supposed to work. we're supposed to have some reason to care

(as a side note i feel like that syndicate should have consolidated its operations. i'm imagining one of those problems where you have a prostitute, a machine gun, and a pitbull on one side of a river and you can only fit two of them in your boat or whatever. and what the fuck even was that "dry goods store." why were we suddenly in a spaghetti western?? i guess i find it vaguely plausible that they have those in san francisco but in that case it couldn't just operate as a front. he would actually have to be selling organic granola and shit)

okay i know you didn't ask, but here's how i would fix all of that. first, at the start, frank should ONLY be trying to kill honest john and the doctor. second, i think johnnie actually should be an ex-prostitute! i'm not saying it would be the greatest most realistic portrayal of sex trafficking, but i think it would make a lot of narrative sense. she can still be a nurse; frank just has to find out that in the past, she was pimped out by one of the guys under earl. then we would get to see frank realize that he's not honest john's only victim AND he would have an actual reason to start with earl! and then once he kills earl he can think critically and come to the conclusion that every arm of this gang is hurting people and THEN he can decide to pick off the leaders one-by-one. obviously he would understand that in the abstract because he's not a moron, but if johnnie's the first person he's ever really cared about (which is what i think they're trying to imply with the ward-of-the-state thing), it would make it tangible for him. right now i think the dog is kind of clumsily serving that function, but by the time frank gets the dog he's already killed four people. also for ~parallels~ he could "rescue" johnnie from earl (symbolically, through love and sexual healing or whatever), a gun from the nicaraguans, and pancho from vladimir. then he could use that gun to commit all subsequent murders, get his revenge as originally planned on honest john and the doctor, ride off into the sunset with johnnie and the dog, and in that way build a new life from the results of all this killing. then it would feel like it was all building to something. i'm not a scriptwriter or anything but i think that would be a much better movie

(also being a sex trafficking victim would help explain why johnnie needed money so desperately. san francisco is expensive but i'm not convinced that nurses living in studio apartments must resort to crime)

and i would just cut joe entirely. i don't know why the fuck joe is even there. i would also shorten the doctor's monologues by at least a hundred percent and replace that lost time with scenes of frank and johnnie in bed together

christ that was a lot. anyway send me any thoughts you have about this dumb movie anytime <3 <3

[bustyasianbeautiespod]

Episode 93 Transcript: That's Literally Lucifer, Dude

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 11: "Sam, Interrupted," written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin, directed by James L. Conway.

C: None of these people should have careers anymore, [G laughs] I personally feel. Daniel Loflin's out at some point, right? [G: Yeah.] Like, I don't remember him. Only- Until Season 8? Well.

G: Isn't their next episode, like, fucking [overlapping] "Hammer of the Gods"? [G laughs] People will write anything!

C: No, they do "Dark Side of the Moon" first.

G: Yeah. Actually, this episode, you know how sometimes you're like, you don't know what is good and what is bad in media? [C: Sure.] I mean, like, for me, a lot of my- It's very rare that I'm like, "it's good" or "it's bad," except when, you know, we're podcasting about it, such as in Supernatural or Good Omens. Most of the time, it's like, "Did I feel a certain way watching it?" blah blah blah. That's the more, you know, that's the easier thing to respond to as a watcher of something, right? This one made me feel so much and all the feelings are so negative that, for a while, I was like, "Maybe it's not even that bad." [both laugh] Because it's like, "It made me feel so much!" but it is that bad, I think.

C: Yeah, it- I didn't enjoy it. It was a bad time. [G: Yeah.] How would we even evaluate it from a technical standpoint? Like, if the case was like, good? Like, it was, like, whatever. [laughs]

G: Yeah, like, there is a point where that's like, you can just ignore that. [laughs] Like, we have other pressing matters.

C: Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

G: The way we are gonna talk about this episode is gonna be a little bit different because, uh, I don't wanna talk about it. [both laugh]

C: Yeah. I'm not like, a huge- I don't really want to be describing every individual scene that happens either, [G: Yeah.] given that most of them are just sanist jokes.

G: Yeah, we're going to give, like, a general summary of the episode, and then we're going to talk about some things that we want to talk about, I guess. Yeah. So, what did you know about this episode before going in? There's definitely some scenes that are like, known, I think.

C: Yeah, I mean, the "boop" scene is known, but I don't think I knew it was in this episode. [G: The context of it, yeah.] Right. All I know was that it was a case in a mental hospital, and they got in by being patients, and that at some point Dean, is confronted with the fact that he's like, definitely an alcoholic.

G: Yeah. That's it?

C: Yeah, that's all I knew.

G: "Pudding!" That's like, a famous, like, gifset, I think. Or gif, I don't know.

C: What is?

G: "Pudding." Right? Like, when they said that.

C: I've never seen that.

G: Is that really? Damn.

C: What is it- What's the gifset that it's in?

G: It's not a [hard g] gifset. It's just one [soft g] gif. [C: Is it like a reaction [hard g] gif?] I don't know. Is it gif or jif? I'm so sorry. I still don't know.

C: It is either. There's a debate raging about it. The creators said it was jif, but I refuse to accept that.

G: Okay. Slay. Typical Crystal behavior, I guess. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, to me, the creators of gifs and Neil Gaiman are one and the same. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. Like, there's just one where it's like, Dean going, "Pudding!" and I think it's like, I've seen it around a bit, like, outside of Supernatural. Well, let's get into the episode, I guess.

C: [sighs] How are we plot-summarying it?

G: Well, I want to actually talk about the "Then" sequence. [C: Yes.] It's like, Ellen and Jo dying is the "then" sequence. And then-

C: [laughs] It goes from that directly into "Yellow Fever."

G: Yeah, where Dean is like, "We're crazy! We're hunting? That's so crazy!" Yeah. "We're insane!"

C: Yeah. Very sudden tone shift. Yeah.

G: So I guess it's supposed to refer to the fact that they are going to go insane this episode, [laughs] I guess.

C: I think it's to talk about how Martin is meant to set up something about how [G: Ah, yeah.] hunting is harmful to your mental health and will eventually catch up with you somehow, a plotline that they don't do anything good about.

G: Yeah. Cas is prominently in this "then" sequence, and by prominently, I do mean he has one line. [C laughs] And I'm pointing that out because Crystal has called me out on it before. [both laugh]

C: I just don't think that's what prominent means.

G: He's always prominent whenever he is in the fucking show. Yeah. I don't know. There's more stuff. There's more like- Oh, about Lucifer.

C: It's Sam being angry is what it's about.

G: Which is kind of like, why are they painting Sam being angry with Lucifer as like-

C: It's Lucifer!

G: That's Lucifer, dude!

C: Like, [laughs] have you heard of a little thing called Christianity? [G: Whole religion!] Many people are mad at that guy.

G: Whole religion is reliant on being on Lucifer, I think. [C laughs] Why is Sam suddenly so special? I understand that Sam is the specialest little princess in the world, but not for this. For other things!

C: Yeah. Like, I do think that yeah, he is angry. And I think that him being, like, quick to anger and quick to revenge is a big part of who he is in Season 1, at least. [G: Yeah.] But like, it's just odd to bring it back here and then also [G: At Lucifer, specifically.] do nothing about it. Yeah, in the end, he's like, "I was mad at you and dad," like, well, yeah, because like, your dad was abusive and like, Dean, like, although he had no responsibility to you because he was also being abused, like, he didn't like, help. Like, that's a normal thing to be mad about. And he was like, "And then I was mad at Ruby," like, literally makes sense.

G: Well, she betrayed you, so. [laughs]

C: Yeah. [laughing] And he's like, "And now I'm mad at Lucifer. That's so weird!"

G: [laughing] That's literally Lucifer, dude. He's about to possess you. What's happening? [C: Yeah.] It's the same deal where they keep on bringing up Stanford as, like, an evidence of something, and it's like, well, I mean, that's a completely reasonable-

C: Yeah. He's not really betraying his family or something? Like, he went to college to be a lawyer. Whatever! [G laughs]

-

G: Yeah. Well, okay. So the episode, it starts, like, in a fucking clinic, and Dean's like, "Oh, can you fix up my brother?" And then Sam starts talking about his life, like, real life, and the doctor's like, "Wow, interesting." And Dean is like, "Yeah. And the thing is, Sam shouldn't feel guilty about all of his actions, because it was Ruby's fault! Blah blah blah!" And then, you know, the doctor's like, "Get these two in there!"

C: Sam pronounces Castiel as CAS-tiel again during this scene.

G: Yeah! Why is that?

C: I don't know. Does Jared Padalecki not know-

G: He does it before in the past, too.

C: Yeah, he does it on the phone at some point, like- [G: Casteel.] CAS-tiel. It's weird! Whatever. I guess it's better than Caschell. [laughs] Or is it?

G: Excuse me?? What do you mean it's better than Caschell, the best pronunciation of Castiel ever?

C: Caschell's fun. CAS-tiel isn't. CAS-tiel feels like he's like, I don't know. CAS-tiel feels like he's like, the CEO of something, and, like, in a bad way because I don't think there's a good way to be a CEO of something. Caschell is fun. You're right. I take back what I said.

G: Thank you. There's like, a very ominous kind of like- ominous because of how cheery she is lady who does their checkup, and like, later on she's revealed to be the wraith. Honestly, wraiths are iconic in Supernatural. Like, we'll see them. We'll see them.

C: Right. I feel like I have seen, like, the brain that's been sucked of everything like, in multiple gifs, and yeah, not just from this episode.

G: Yeah, I mean, I'm not actually sure we see a lot of the brain. We see a lot of the hand thing for sure. The spiky thing.

C: Mm-hm. Remember when she like, has a fight scene where she puts her hand spike away in order to start fighting? Like, what was that about?

G: Well, because it's sensitive. [C: Oh, okay.] And it's just for piercing. It's not, like, a slasher thing, which is [C: Alright.]- So she puts it out when she's about to pierce Dean's head, right? And she extends it when it doesn't reach him. So true! [C: Yeah.] It's so fun, though, like, really, when he like, snapped it off, like, I thought that was fun. [C: That was fun, yeah.] Yeah. I don't know. They go in.

C: She infects them with [G: With something.] what they call "crazy" later by doing a prostate exam.

G: Yeah. Yeah. Inside, like, they meet Martin, and I do want to linger on Martin a bit. He is- like, they're very vague on his backstory. All I know is something-

C: Yeah, he and John were hunting buddies.

G: Yeah. And they were in Albuquerque. Well, he was in Albuquerque. Where is Albuquerque?

C: I think it's in New Mexico. I think there's an airport there.

G: Uh-huh. No, yeah. I've definitely heard that place before. So that means it's- but I've heard many places in the United States, so that could mean anything, honestly. They were in Albuquerque, something went wrong, and then he checked himself into this institution.

C: Right, so he's been here for, like, [G: A while, yeah.] at least... three years? Is that how math works? Probably four, 'cause, I'm assuming that he and John were hunting, and that ended before Season 1. So five years? That's how math works.

G: It's been a while, yeah. [C: Yeah.] The way he is portrayed is, he is clear-headed, but when hunting gets brought up, he gets jittery about it. [C: Yeah.] There's a scene later where they're trying to convince him to hunt with them, and he was like, "No, I don't want to. Like, it's bad for me. I don't want to," and this is-

C: Yeah, he mentions that seeing dead bodies specifically is like, difficult for him.

G: Yeah. This is painted as something that is so unreasonable and annoying. [C: Yeah.] And Sam did this-

C: They're like, "What? You're such a coward!" But, I mean, they also called Sam a coward for that.

G: Ugh. Oh my god! [C laughs] But like, they painted forcing Sam back as, like, a bad thing, right? [C: Did they?] It had to be something Sam chose for himself.

C: I mean, but it's like, he chose it because all the people trying to get him to come back were right.

G: Yeah, okay, yeah. So this just like, Supernatural's perspective on the thing, I guess.

C: Yeah, the whole, like, "We just need everybody on board, and if you're like, capable of hunting, then you have to, or else you're evil," or I don't even know what they're going for. But yeah. [G: Yeah.] He is portrayed as a coward for having trauma around dead bodies. [laughs]

G: Well, the murders have been- Oh, we see the murder, actually, at the beginning of this obviously.

C: At the beginning, yeah. There's a monster that seems to come out of the grates, is the POV of the woman whose death we see at the beginning, and then it comes out at night, and then people are found dead in the morning, seemingly by suicide. [G: Yeah.] And this happened to a few people so far, [G: Yeah.] but the concerns of the patients regarding this have been wholly dismissed by everyone on the staff.

G: Yeah. And, yeah. [C: It's so weird.] I mean, they are hammering in the like, "These doctors are terrible," or this one doctor, I guess, is kind of shitty.

C: But what seems to be hammered home is just that like, he's wrong because he's wrong about the monster not existing, when it's like, I think that the issue is that him being this dismissive and like, smirking at Dean when, like, he thinks that Dean is, like, sane, and Sam isn't like, while Sam's talking about the apocalypse- Like, he's just a bad doctor, even if the monster wasn't real.

G: And like, the way he talks to Sam- he is not a monster when that was happening, right? He's never the monster. [C: Yeah, he's never the monster.] When he was like, threatening Sam that like, [laughs] "If you cause trouble, we will put you in maximum security person equivalent of a mental hospital." It's like, well. [C: Well.] It's- I don't know. Shitty guy.

-

C: Sam gets taken away to group therapy away from Dean because the doctor calls them "dangerously codependent," which is true, I think. [G: Yeah.] One of the patients is trying to talk about the monster, but he gets shut down by the doctor. I think it was just like, the doctor sucks because the guy just like, says a few times that there's a monster, and then the doctor is like, "I'm gonna call the orderlies on you," like, [G: Yeah.] "Shut the fuck up!" Yeah. So just a lot of him just being a dick, but it only being portrayed as wrong because he's wrong about the monster. And it's just like, okay, like, you thought that these were suicides. If, like, what? At least- what? Three, four patients in the last week in like, your mental hospital where you're supposed to be making them feel better about their lives [G laughs] kill themselves, like, maybe you need to re-examine how you're running things around here.

G: And also just, like, from, you know, if he's not aware that there is actually a monster. If one of your patients is, like, "Somebody killed four other people and painted it as a suicide, and they're gonna come for me next," [laughs] like, I think you should do something about it!

C: Yeah. [laughing] Like, telling that guy "Shut the fuck up" is like, not the way, bro.

G: It's like, you know. I understand that, you know, especially here- Like, I don't know about the United States. I'm sure it's also horrible, but especially here, it's like, there's so few resources, so few whatever. I mean, there's an uptick right now of, like, people who are graduating as psychologists. Fun, I guess. But there are so few resources and so few facilities here to deal with mental health patients, and especially, like, the inpatient type of dealing with patients, right? So I think a part of me, there is, like, a sort of like, "You cannot demand-" Well, not that you cannot demand better, but like, I understand that, like, they're understaffed, they're under-facilitated, blah blah blah blah blah. And that is, like, an argument I hear around a lot, and, I don't know. Like, a lot of my perspective is, uh, I don't give a shit? [C: Yeah.] I mean, obviously, it's like, true, and that does affect the kind of service that you get for these people. I think part of me is also like, "Well, somebody has to advocate for, like, the other side," I guess, [C: Yeah.] and that's the stance I have taken on in my life so far. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, so, I don't know. Just putting it out there, I guess.

C: Yeah. Dean meets a doctor who is like- I don't know how to describe her.

G: Who is like, [laughs] a hot woman.

C: Yeah, she's like, a hot woman. And like-

G: She's cool and everything.

C: He's tried to flirt with the nurse earlier and also this doctor, but neither of them act on it, which is good, but also like, she's a hallucination, and the nurse is a wraith, so, yeah. [both laugh] She's hot. She's cool. She seems to be like, good at getting to the bottom of him without like, being dismissive in like, the way the other doctor is, and they, like, trade questions back and forth where she asks about him, and he asks about the case, and later, it's like, of course, the only person on staff who seems slightly competent isn't an actual employee. [G: Yeah.] We learn a few things about Dean, which ,I guess, first, that he has about 50 drinks a week, and second, that he's never been in a relationship for longer than two months. Which- Cassie was one month? Was that what their backstory was?

G: Perhaps so. I'm not sure. [C: Yeah.] It is kind of crazy that two months is long-term.

C: Mm. What would you define as a long-term relationship?

G: I don't know. Like, maybe six months?

C: Okay. Yeah, for me, I either alternate between three months or one year. [G laughs] Like, I don't really know. But yeah.

G: I think by two months, you're still, like, in the [C: Honeymoon phase?] growing pains age, or like, you know, honeymoon stage, I don't know. Depends, I guess. [C: Yeah.] I feel like if you know each other before you get together, the 2 months is the growing pains stage 'cause you're trying to readjust, recalibrate, etc. If you just meet, that's the honeymoon stage. So there we go.

C: So after this we meet a character named Wendy, and [laughs] it's horrible that she exists. [G: Yeah.] Her role is to play, like, a red herring in the case because basically, like, the trajectory of this is that Sam and Dean both realize that, like- Or at least Dean's having hallucinations. Sam- What's Sam's thing? Is he also having hallucinations?

G: I mean, yeah, later on.

C: Yeah, I forgot. Okay.

G: He punches, like, people.

C: Right, the air. Yes. So Sam and Dean are both having hallucinations, and, like, other symptoms of mental illness later, and they realize that the wraith who they're hunting must be infecting them in order to make them, as they say, "crazy." So like, and they think that the infection happens through touch or saliva or something. So the point of Wendy is for them to think briefly that she's the wraith. However, the extent of her character is that she shows up in the hallway with no warning and makes out with Dean, and she's like, a hot woman. And then later she does the same thing with Sam. And, like, Dean's into it, but Sam tells him that he shouldn't pursue that because- the reasoning seems to be that Wendy can't meaningfully consent, which I don't think is true. So yeah, like, all of her scenes are showing up to make out with each of them one time each, and then being found dead in her room. [G: Yeah.] So that's her. Great.

G: She lives, though.

C: Yeah, as far as we're aware. The guy who was talking in group ends up being the next one to die. Sam and Dean do an autopsy and find out that his brain seems like, completely, like, black and sucked dry and calcified or whatever. [G: Yeah.] Okay, they almost get caught by the nurse.

G: And this is when the pudding stuff happens, [laughs] like, this is when the pudding gif is done. So yeah.

C: They talk with Martin and figure out that it's a wraith and that, you know, they get the right weapon for it eventually. [G: It's silvah.] It's silver, and you can figure out which creature is a wraith by checking in the mirror. They start discussing here why the wraith might have set up camp here, and their reasoning is just that, like, it makes sense. It's just that everyone here is institutionalized, so like, [G: People won't believe them, yeah.] they can't escape well, and also, people won't believe them about seeing a monster. However, later, when the wraith herself is explaining what's going on, her reasoning is completely-

G: She said, "It's yummy!"

C: Yeah, she keeps saying that that "crazy brains" taste the best because they have a lot of dopamine in then. Like, go find a jogger post-jog. Like, what are you talking about? [both laugh] I think, just the the way that this is presented later is very- The episode just uses the word "crazy" a lot [G: Yeah.] as their only descriptor of any mental illness. Like, they don't talk about like, anything specific except for, like, when the doctor mentions that Dean is schizophrenic. And like, the point, is just to like, draw this very clear line between like, "people who are sane" and "people who are crazy," [G: Yeah.] and "crazy" just means, like, anything that seems slightly out of like, the bounds of neurotypical behavior, and like, the whole, like, "crazy brains taste special" thing is just very- like, there are like-

G: There are also differences.

C: - some differences-

G: I would say there are many differences!

C: Oh, no, I meant- I was starting with like, "Yes, there's some difference in, like, chemical makeup like, if you have certain disorders," but like, the way that they flatten it and like, turn it into such a [G: They're all one and the same, yeah.] stark binary that's like- Yeah, it's all one in the same. Like, they mix stuff like Sam and Dean hallucinating with like, Dean, for one brief scene, for a joke, like, not wanting to step on the cracks on the tiles as like a "Haha! Isn't this a well known OCD thing?" Like, they're just throwing everything together without any thought to like, actual people who have mental disorders.

G: Yeah. I mean like, the whole point- Like, you know, later on, Dean is like, "Oh, I mean, at some point, we were probably gonna go crazy, me and Sam, but it's happening at the same time, so that means it's being caused by something else." So like, they're- One, they do refer to themselves in this moment as "going insane" or "crazy" or whatever. Two, there is an acknowledgement that this is a probable part of their future. [C: Right.] And yet, like, no aspect of the episode attempts to treat mental illness as like- with any complexity. [C: Right.] And mentally ill people as people. Like, nothing. I guess they- like, they attempt a little bit with Martin, I guess, and then fail completely. Maybe they don't even attempt. [laughs] I'm not sure. Like, it's just- It's so- This is like, the part of the episode that really upset me. [C: Right.] You're going to do an episode inside a mental hospital and then just, like, make fun of everyone and be like, "Oh, we're not like them," which is the whole point of the episode, I guess. "And if you do this, you're gonna be just like them, and that's so, so, so, so bad." And that's the point. [C: Yep.] Ugh! I know they're going to have mental hospital episodes in the future as well. I am curious into how they are going to do that.

C: The Kaia one or-? That was in rehab.

G: Sam was really in "Born-Again Identity" or- not "Born Again." "Born Again Identity." [laughs] I'm not sure.

C: Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, "The Born-Again Identity," I think.

G: "Born First"? No. It's not "Born Again."

C: I think it's "Born Again." Why wouldn't it be "Born-Again"?

G: I don't know. What does the word born-again mean for you? Is it also a religion?

C: Yeah, I mean, it's a religion thing. [G: Okay.] It's called "The Born-Again Identity."

G: Okay, [laughs] slay.

C: I think it's 'cause they find Cas again, right?

G: No, Sam is also happening. Sam is also in the episode.

C: No, I'm saying that it's probably called that because they find Cas again [G: Yeah, yeah, yeah.], and it's a play on- I think there's a movie or something called The Bourne Identity [G: Yeah.] where Bourne is like, a last name, B-O-U-R-N-E.

G: Yeah. Jason Bourne. They filmed in Manila. [C: Oh!] Yeah.

C: How- Do you know anything else about that movie?

G: Yeah, I watched it, I guess.

C: Oh. [laughs] How was it?

G: I don't know. They're jumping around, doing stuff. [C laughs] [C: Cool.] It's a fucking action movie. What do you want me to say?

C: [laughs] I don't know anything about it. I assumed it would have something to do with the plot of the episode regarding, like, amnesia or mental health, but I guess not.

G: No, I think it's just a pun. I think it's just a pun.

C: Okay. What's the identity in the action movie?

G: Him. He's identifying as Jason Bourne. [both laugh] I don't know. [both laughing] Oh, the movie that was filmed in the Philippines is The Bourne Legacy, so. [C: Okay.] It's a part of the Bourne series, which includes The Bourne Identity.

C: Okay. Well, anyway. Speaking of Sam, what seems to be the attempted beginning emotional core of the episode is that Sam tells Dean that he's worried about him because he hasn't been right since Jo and Ellen's deaths. [G: Yeah.] First off, they were Sam's friends, too. [G: Yeah.] Second, do they do anything with that?

G: Not at all. They don't ever acknowledge it, ever. I think, like, at the end, when Dean was like, "You gotta suck it up."

C: Right, "You have to repress all of your feelings." Okay, that was supposed to come back to that? Okay. So that was the first attempt at emotional core. Not really working. Second attempt at emotional core is that "Sam is angry at Lucifer, and that's wrong." We already talked about that.

G: So stupid, yeah.

C: Stupid, didn't work. Third, they seemed to be setting up something regarding Martin, and then they don't do anything. [G: Yeah.] The next scene is just that Dean sees Dr. Fuller, who's like, the male doctor who was leading group, in the mirror, and he appears to be a wraith. So when he and Sam and Martin meet back up, we have that scene that we talked about earlier, where they're like, "Martin, you should hunt with us." and he's like, "No, I can't," and is clearly shaken. And Sam says, "We know what happened in Albuquerque." And Martin stops and goes, "You don't know the half of it." And then we never learn what happened in Albuquerque! Not a single half of it. What was that about? [laughs] What was the woman of that exchange?

G: I don't know. Just to be ominous and mysterious.

C: Did something happen during filming? Like, it just feels like there's so much that got cut because there's so many dangling threads. [G: Yeah. I don't know.] Like, was there nothing planned for this? 'Cause there's a clear setup for, like, whatever happened in Albuquerque to be revealed at some point, and I don't think it would necessarily make the episode that much better [G: Stronger, yeah.] or stronger or anything, 'cause like, I feel like the point that they'd be making is just that like, "Oh, like, Martin's in here for a good reason. Like, he got trauma from, like, being brave and cool, unlike these people, who are just craazy." So like, I don't think it would improve the episode much, but like, it did seem like they were trying to work towards something [G: Yeah.] with Martin and his backstory.

C: Because they mentioned it prior to this, also! [C: Yes.] Like, they also say, like, "Oh. After Albuquerque-"

C: Yeah, "He hasn't been the same since Albuquerque." Like, what happened, bro? [laughs]

G: And if they're trying to, you know, make that parallel of like, "Just like Ellen and Jo" and "Dean hasn't been the same since then," it's like, well, try to do something about it.

C: Yeah, try a little harder. What's happening here?

-

G: So they go for the attack. Martin is actually there, or he shows up later, and basically, like, Sam attacks the doctor, and he slices him on the arm with a silver something, and he doesn't disintegrate completely. And then, like, there are two orderlies who come in, and Sam, like, demolishes these two. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] You know, he goes for the kill, except Martin stops him because that's not the wraith. And then Sam gets sedated, I suppose, and then they bring him back to a room where, I don't know. He's there, I guess. Dean comes in, and they talk. I forgot, actually, what this conversation is. What is it about?

C: Just how Dean realizes that he was wrong about the wraith being Dr. Fuller, so he's worried that he's like, going crazy. And then Sam says that, "You're my brother, and I still love you," but he's also like, very drugged up the whole time. And the general scene is just played for humor, 'cause Sam's like, high. [G: Yeah.] And like, the premise of- Sam got checked in- Like, Dean in the intake appointment is talking about how like, "It wasn't Sam's fault that he started the apocalypse. He was just high." And like, he's currently in a situation where he's been forcibly drugged, [G: Yeah.] and tied to a bed in a way that's quite similar to the panic room in Season 4, I would say, and then there's another scene where he's in solitary where it feels even more similar to that, and they don't do anything with that? [G: Yeah.] It just seems like a very obvious parallel that you would discuss in some way.

G: Yeah, just because "It's funny! It's for comedy!" Oh my god. Like, later on, the scene that you pointed out, of like, Dean stepping on the tiles-

C: Trying to avoid stepping on the tiles, yeah.

G: Like, that was also played comedically, and like, I don't know. A bit of me was like, maybe Jensen Ackles is just missing the tone completely. But also, there was a director for this episode, and they could have directed it properly.

C: Yeah, I think it was meant to be played comedically.

G: So it was intentional that it was like this. And it was so frustrating. So frustrating. Because, like, you know, there's the ableist aspect of it, but also, like, story-wise, you could be doing something interesting here. Like, Sam and Dean are interesting characters, and [C: Some claim this.] especially, like, as you said, Sam's here. It is an interesting situation that he has been put, and instead of doing anything with it, it's just silly goofy time. And it's like, "Well, don't do it like that."

C: Right. "Isn't it funny how mental hospital patients get forcibly sedated because then they talk funny and boop their brothers' noses!" Like, no! [laughs] Incorrect. So that's a scene that is annoying.

-

G: So Dean starts, you know. He's walking the hallway. The lady doctor, like, stops him and to him, and then she starts talking a bit more with knowledge of what's happening. And Dean is like, "Oh, what are you really? What are you? What are you?" And then this, I suppose, janitor stops them, goes like, "Hey, stop all that." and points out that Dean is actually talking to nobody. And Dean, like, you know, does freak out about this because like, "Oh my god, I am actually going crazy."

C: Right. And also the the bent of the conversation with the doctor is just that, like, Dean feels responsible for everybody in the world and that like, he needs to save everybody, and that's like, a bunch of, like, pressure and guilt, blah blah blah, that he's putting himself under. I just really don't buy [laughs] any storyline like this in Supernatural where it's like, "You're so guilty about all the people you can't save," etc, etc 'cause it's like, so many people die on their cases while they're fucking around elsewhere, and [laughs] they don't feel bad about it. [G: Yeah.] Like, it's just specific people that they feel bad about dying. But whatever. I guess that's what they're going for.

We have the scene where Dr. Fuller comes in, and, as we've mentioned, threatens to put Sam in "a facility that is equipped to handle violent patients" if he has another outburst.

G: And then it's like, "And there, they won't be as niceys."

C: Yeah. "As me."

G: And also, the doctor was like, "I don't think you can get better because you're so angy!" [both laugh]

C: Like, you're a terrible doctor! Yeah, he goes like, "I think that, like, your delusions around monsters, like, that's fine. People learn to live with that. But like, your anger issues are incurable!" And it's like, well, at least you said that first sentence. But can we circle back to that second sentence? What? He specifically says that Sam- the look in Sam's eyes was like, "not human."

G: My god! [C: Fire- who? Fire this guy!] And this is just a dude! He's not even a monster!

C: Yeah, yeah. And like, the point is, like, the themes and motifs. But like, if you're setting something inside a mental hospital like, maybe you should think about what is like, [laughs] appropriate for the staff to be saying or doing. And like, if it's not appropriate, then, like, probably they should just be the monster. Or- it's not- Okay. Like, portrayal of, like, shitty staff at a mental hospital is like [both] is fine because, like, that is true. But like, it's the way that it's treated like this is like, [G: Yeah.] an okay way for him to talk to a patient, and like, in fact, good for him to tell Sam this so that he can come to realizations and change as a person. Like, that's the issue.

G: Yeah, like, I mean, this is why, like, you know, for a while, I was like, "Oh, I feel like shit. It must be an okay episode." Because, like, yeah, it's supposed to make you feel like shit. But I don't know, the specifics of how they do it-

C: Like, it' not really supposed to make you feel like shit, is the thing. Like, I think it's supposed to be mostly a lighthearted episode. [laughs]

G: Crazy! I don't know. Let's check reviews later. Let's check the reviews later. [C: Yeah.] Perhaps people have the same sentiment as we do.

C: Right. It's like, just the- We have "Asylum" in Season 1, and like, that one, like, the horror is around patient abuse, and like, the twist is like, the patients, when they killed that doctor, they were acting reasonably as a result of him, like, doing certain experiments to make them angrier and stuff. Like, the horror is tied into the mistreatment. Whereas here, like, the horror is completely separate. They suggest that, like, the structure of a mental hospital makes it so that it's easier to abuse and prey on patients, and then, like, the wraith shows up and completely nixes that. And then, like, the places where we see mistreatment, like, of Sam, like, that's not part of the horror. It's just like, "What an annoying obstacle!" But like, "This obstacle is only wrong because monsters are real, and we need to hunt it," and like, there's no feeling that like, if you did this to someone who wasn't Sam, that it would be wrong. Like, you know what I mean? [G: Yeah.] So yeah, that's the main bent of the episode that gets me riled up.

G: Yeah. Sam was allowed to go out. And also, the fact that they were like, "It's so bad that Sam beat up those orderlies," and the episode like, agrees with it, doesn't it? Like, the episode agrees with the whole like, "Sam is so sick in the head for being so mad. He beat up those orderlies." It's like, they've done that-

C: Yeah, while he was trying to kill someone he thought was a monster, yeah.

G: - many, many, many times. [C: Plenty.] And also, like, he's a giant man! [both laugh] He just moves around. He's so big.

C: Yeah. He takes a step, like, all your bones break. [laughs]

G: [laughs] I mean, I think that's a mean thing to say about Sam Winchester. No, but like, you understand what I mean, right? To paint it as "Sam is so monstrous." Why? Because he's big and, like, has years and years and years of combat experience? [laughs] I think this is completely normal for Sam Winchester. I don't know. It's just so stupid.

C: Yeah. I mean the funniest "Sam is too angry" moment is when he's trying to lockpick a door, and Dean's like, "Come on, hurry up," and then, like, he turns around, and the camera really focuses on his face when he tells- What does he tell Dean? Like, "Shut up"?

G: "Shut up" or something, yeah.

C: Yeah, and it's like, "Oh my god, Sam's so angry and mean in the moment," and it's like, all of us wished we could tell Dean to shut the fuck up.

G: Exactly. And then, I don't know. Sam, like, starts walking down, but when he gets there, Dean, like, tells him, like, I don't know. "You're actually a monster, and it's not about Ruby. It's you." And then people start beating him up, and then he fights back, and he starts, you know, punching around. And then as we go, we see that it's actually normal and a hallucination, and Sam gets taken away, and Dean is, like, in the corner. And they do, like, the- you know, like, the thing that they do with like, when they're trying to portray someone as losing their mind where they're like, twiddling their thumbs or something? [C: Right.] That's how Dean is being played right now. [C: Right.]

-

G: So Dean goes in to talk to Martin about it. And it's like, this scene where he keeps on being distracted from talking. But basically he's like, "Oh, it must be Wendy's fault." and also, "I don't know. Something's happening."

C: One interesting thing is that he thinks that- at one moment, he wonders if it's the ghost of John that's making [G: Yeah.] his brain act up. Which, like, that's fascinating. I don't think they meant anything by it in the episode besides, like, "What a funny line," but it's like- I don't- Why would Dean think that? What does he think John would want? What would John gain by doing this? Why does he think John's angry at him?

G: They out. The tiles thing happens here. Immediately, a woman screams, and then Dean just completely abandons this compulsion because the bit is done. The joke is already delivered, so it doesn't matter anymore.

C: Yup. Wendy's there with like, slit wrists, and the nurse is standing over her with, like, her wraith face, and like, [G: Her fingy.] her wraith finger thing. There's like, a spike that comes out of her wrist. And there's like, a fight scene, and the wraith heads out of the room and calls on two orderlies to go to Wendy's room, to like-

G: Subdue Martin.

C: To fight, to subdue Dean and Martin. And Martin basically offers to help hold them back and also look after Wendy as Dean goes after the wraith.

G: Yeah, 'cause Wendy is still breathing, like, she's still alive. [C: Yes.] And when the orderlies come in, Martin is standing over her, so that's- you know.

C: Yeah, like, it's going to look bad.

G: Really bad, yeah.

C: Yeah, though, I mean- it seems. Yeah, it's possible that they might end up blaming him for the deaths of all the other patients. He also attacks the two orderlies, which is like, something that they will absolutely punish him for in some way, and that is the last we see of him [G: Yeah.] for the entire episode. When they're escaping, they do not try to get him out, [G: Yeah.] despite knowing for sure that he's going to be punished severely.

G: Yeah, when they were running out, I was, like, looking at my screen, going like, "Go back!" [C: Because Martin, yeah.] because Martin is still there. And when Sam stops, I was like, "He's stopping because he's gonna go back in or he's gonna say, 'Hey, we should get Martin' or something." But no, he doesn't. They don't give a shit. And like, the only mention of him after this episode is for Dean to be like, "You don't want to end up like him, do you?" It's so horrible!

C: He's a much nicer and more pleasant person to be around than either of you. [laughs] I would rather end up "like Martin" than either of you. What are you even talking about?

G: My god. It's such a big- To me, like, okay, fine. The Winchesters think crazy people are not people. Whatever. They have been long established as very loyal to the hunter pack [C: Yeah.], very loyal to all the people who have helped them or John in the past. Martin threw himself at these orderlies so that Dean can go and save Sam, and is like, taking the fall for it, basically. And like, it is not, like, painted as anything that they are to be grateful for, like, at all. [C: Yeah.] Like, okay, fine. Leave him there. I don't know. Whatever. It's just like, so ungrateful! It's because they don't view him as part of the pack anymore, as part of the hunter pack anymore. Like, they just think he's like, a pathetic loser, I guess.

C: I guess. Even though he did overcome, like, his fears or whatever to help you and everything [G: Yeah.], so like, the main reason you thought he was a loser or whatever is gone. But I guess the actual main reason is that he's mentally ill, so that will never change in your minds. Great.

G: Yeah. And it's like, of course it's going to bring up negative feelings, like, the idea that like, "Oh, we have, like, somebody who's part of the community or part of the family or whatever, but like, it's so embarrassing! They're mentally ill!" And it's like, my god, man! Because that is how it is portrayed, right? Like, "You don't want to be like Martin because Martin's like, embarrassing" and whatever. [C: Yeah.] And in a way, they're using that mindset- Not "in a way." Like, they are using that mindset to justify leaving him behind. He's either gonna go to that maximum facility whatever, yeah, that the doctor was talking about, or to prison. [C: Yeah.] And it's like, you're just going to leave him in there? My god. I mean, the Winchesters-

C: There seems to be just the idea that, like, "We can't break him out because, like, the 'real world' needs to be like, kept away from him." Like, "he can't handle it," or like- I don't know. "He could be a danger to the outside-" I don't know. But there is just a "He can't exist outside of this facility, so like, if that means that he's gonna end up in prison or, like, in like, a maximum security facility that probably abuses its patients like crazy, then like, yeah. Whatever. We can't put him in the outside world!" Like, you're- No. Incorrect. The end.

G: Yeah. So horrible.

C: Yeah. Horrible. He checked himself in, too!

G: Yeah. He was not- I don't think we are to believe that he was causing any trouble for anyone before he checked himself in.

C: Yeah. And even if he didn't, like, they shouldn't have left him behind. But it'd be like, "Maybe we need to discuss, like, if there's other treatment that we want to get him under a new identity" or whatever. But yeah.

G: It's just, none of these people are treated like people. Martin is the only one we actually talked to. Wendy, not particularly. [C: Yeah.] And those are the only two people aside- I guess also the person who was like, "I saw it. I saw it." That's the person we see. It's just, my god.

-

C: The wraith enters Sam's room. He's been put in like, solitary and a padded room, and like, tied to a bed. And she starts trying to feed on him. And this is when she says that "crazy brains taste better because of all the hormones and chemicals in them." She says, "And the crazier they are, the better they taste."

G: What the fuck is the metric here?

C: What does that mean? [laughs] [G: Slay.] Yeah. What does that mean? Dean comes in to try to defend Sam, and there's a fight sequence where he defeats her by- She thinks she has him, and she's going to feed on him, so her spike comes out, but then he breaks it off, she starts bleeding a lot from it, and then he kills her. But like, her body, like, doesn't change. She still looks like a human nurse.

G: Yeah. And also, she doesn't disintegrate. She's just on the floor.

C: Right. So I was almost waiting for a twist where it was like, "It wasn't even her." But no, it was her. But like, nothing happens to her body, I guess. And then they run out. I guess it's possible that most of the deaths- Well, not all of them can be blamed on Sam and Dean, because most of them happened before they got here. But it's possible that since they escaped, and it's clear that like, they killed this nurse, that Martin will only be blamed for attacking the two orderlies? [G: Yeah.] I don't know. I also don't know what the camera situation is in this mental hospital, so, yeah.

G: I mean, you know, this wraith got around, so [C: That's true.] probably not that good.

C: Yeah, probably not that good.

G: I mean, she was attacking inside rooms, and they shouldn't have inside rooms, right?

C: I don't know what the norm [G: Law, yeah.] is around that, yeah. But yeah, so they escape, and they have a final conversation where Sam's like, "The wraith was right!" And Dean's like, "No, it's fine, and also I need twelve drinks," which I think is supposed to be a continuation of the like, "He does have a substance abuse problem regarding alcohol, but we're not going to do anything about it." But yeah, you know, Sam's just like, "I have anger problems, 'cause I was mad at John, Lilith, and Lucifer." [laughs] I think all reasonable people to be angry at.

G: I understand Sam's, you know, "I'm mad at everything." Like yeah, that is a problem. Like, being mad is not a pleasant feeling, [laughs] so if you're mad all the time, like, that's not good.

C: Yeah. If his point is like, "Being angry all the time, like, decreases my quality of life, or like, makes my judgment worse in like, important situations," like fine. Okay. But I feel like all he's going off of was the doctor being like, "You'll never go get over this, and also, you didn't look human when you were angy!" Like, that doesn't mean anything.

G: Yeah, I don't know. I don't want to diminish, like, the anguish of having anger issues. [C: Right.] It's just that the way Supernatural does it is so fucking stupid. [C laughs] Everything they do is so stupid! What if Andrew Dabb and Andrew Loflin are terrible writers? [C laughs] We have considered this multiple times, and it's true, but, [C: Yeah, they are.] let's consider it again.

C: Consider it true.

G: Ugh, and then "Hammer of the Fucking Gods." Oh my god!

C: Yeah. Yeah. [G: Well.] Yeah, Dean tells him like, "It doesn't matter." Like, he goes, "What are you gonna do? You gonna take a leave of absence? You gonna say yes to Lucifer?" The first one, leave of absence, is that just like, Sam quitting hunting as he did earlier? [G: Yeah.] Okay, so he's like, "Well, sorry about your anger issues. But since you're not gonna say yes to Lucifer or quit hunting, you just have to take all that crap and bury it so that we don't end up like Martin." This is truly the season of Dean, giving absolutely shit mental health advice. Remember when he told Bobby, "If you ever bring up being suicidal again, like, I hate you" [laughs] or whatever? [G: My god.] And it's like, I get why this is like- You're in survival mode, it's the apocalypse, whatever whatever. Like, the people watching this episode are usually not in survival mode during the apocalypse. [laughs] Like, you have to keep that in mind when you're having Dean dish out the world's worst advice. [laughs] But yeah, and then they they drive away, leaving Martin behind to face the horrors. The end!

G: Yeah, well. [C: Bad.] What did we think about this episode? Multiple terrible things in many layers, yeah.

C: Yeah. I have nothing but complaints about it, but I have already said all of them.

-

G: Best Line/Worst Line? [laughs] [C: Ah!] Why have we trapped ourselves to saying a Best Line for any, honestly, is the question.

C: I think I found the initial scene where they're just talking to Dr. Fuller and trying to get into the hospital by talking about their live straightforwardly, I feel like I did find that a bit amusing.

G: You know, when Dean does the whistle and then twirls his fingers, like, "crazy!" I was like, [laughs] "That is something Dean Winchester would do." So yeah.

C: Yeah, it is something Dean Winchester would do.

G: Worst line, I think, uh, everything? I don't know.

C: Yeah, I think all of them.

G: I really do hate when Dean goes like, "You're gonna bury it, you're gonna forget about it, because that's how we keep going, that's how we don't end up like Martin." [C: Yeah.] Hate it!

C: Shut the fuck up, Dean.

G: Writer sins? Spread those sheets.

C: They've managed to mostly dodge our three main columns, but there is misogyny in the form of Wendy.

G: Yeah, I think that's it. 2? 'Cause, I mean, she does show up 2 times.

C: It's true. [laughs] 1 point per time.

G: Racism and homophobia is a 0. W have to put a fucking- Didn't we have an episode where we put like, honorary column?

C: Yeah, I think "When the Levee Breaks." Yeah, we just put +5 ableism in a column that did not have a header.

G: You know what? This also-

C: +10. [laughs] Let's just go beyond-

G: But we have a 1-5 rating! We have a 1-5 rating. We have to respect the fucking rating.

C: Okay, yeah. Let's respect the fucking rating.

Alright. IMDb. I don't think this is particularly enjoyed by the populace.

G: I don't know. I hope not. I would say, perhaps, this is an 8.3.

C: Okay, I'm looking at how fallen idols got a 7.9. And that was a lot of Paris Hilton hate, so I'm gonna go 8.0.

G: Okay, let's check. [C: Okay.] Hm. It's an 8.5.

C: Oh. Well, I don't like that.

G: Yeah, they think it's funny. [C: Okay.] This one is disappointed with the episode. [C: Because of the ableism?] There was a break before this one. "Storyline was ill-conceived, well played out, a few weak attempts of humor."

C: "I love how the script writers choose an attractive woman as Dean's antagonist, the reversal of fortunes where Dean uses his looks and personality on women." Sure. [G laughs]

G: Diversity win. They literally said diversity win.

C: Yeah. And like, she wasn't even a real woman. Like, he made her up, so like, she was a man in some ways.

G: No, the wraith!

C: I guess the- Oh, the wraith being the main antagonist. I thought they were talking about the doctor, 'cause the wraith was like, both of their antagonists. The doctor was Dean-specific, but whatever. I guess they were being Dean-centric.

G: I mean, that’s it, really for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 12: "Swap Meat"! Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: At least Sam is gonna call a teenager a virgin. I don't think it'll be that funny. [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

[grifpaw]

so this is an interesting comment and i have some thoughts on this; i don't actually think editing and CGI are inherently an issue here! for starters, red vs. blue has always utilized video editing. church's "ghost" form was edited in, of course, and there were plenty of visual gags just in blood gulch chronicles that wouldn't be possible without the use of video editing, like lopez's disembodied head, church and tex's gravestones, grif "establishing a perimeter" around sarge, and lots more that i'm not gonna list right now.

as for CGI, they started using it back in season 8, and that's about where, in my opinion, the storytelling in rvb started to become the best it's ever been. i have nothing but praise for monty oum's work on rvb, and i think the use of animation in seasons 8-10 only improved what was already a fantastic series. the project freelancer saga couldn't have done a lot of the things it did without the use of CGI, and because the writing was top-notch, it worked. did the models look janky sometimes? yes. did i love it? also yes.

that being said, there's a discussion to be had about the over-reliance on these techniques. when is it too much? when does it become detrimental to the quality of the show? this is somewhat subjective, but here's what my own opinion boils down to: the quality of the writing shouldn't suffer just because they can include flashy visuals and fight scenes, because that's not enough! as an example, there were some action sequences in the chorus trilogy that, in my opinion, dragged out for a long time with little additional benefit. they looked cool, yes, but for the amount of time that was spent on them, they just didn't do very much. i'll explain what i mean.

first, let's look at the fight against the tex drones at the end of season 10. not only did it look dope as fuck, but it had a lot of great moments for the main cast's characterization, had plenty of rvb's typical humor mixed in, and fit into the story in a way that really tugged at my emotions... now i wanna compare this to the final carolina vs. sharkface fight in season 13. i don't wanna say it's bad, but first of all, i don't really care about sharkface as a character, even though the plot seems to want me to. and second of all, what does this sequence do for the characters i do care about? i'm not complaining about getting to watch carolina beat some guy up, but from a writing perspective, this only serves to slow carolina down a little... as far as i can tell, it does nothing for carolina's character development, and i didn't give a fuck when sharkface died. so, idk?

i, like many others, enjoyed the chorus trilogy. but it's also where i start to see a few CGI sequences that don't do much besides looking kinda cool, and that's really what it boils down to for me. i will say right now that i fucking love animation, but there's a point where it overshadows the biggest selling points for the series, which are its strong characterization, dialogue, humor, and, of course, plot.

so to close things off, i do think reliance on editing and CGI can become a problem, but it's in tandem with everything else. these things can make the series better, but they can also make the series worse. when the writing falls off, the overuse of CGI feels pointless and only serves to exacerbate that issue. similarly, the freedom offered by CGI and video editing can cause the writing to suffer (and i will be incredibly clear: the writing has always been what carries the series, not the visuals). when the CGI/editing complement the machinima and writing instead of overshadowing or replacing them altogether, that's when the series is the best it can be.

(also, everything i just said is my opinion only, and it's okay if others disagree. peace out)

now i know people like to say red vs. blue sucks or whatever but i would be lying if i said i didn't think it was a fantastically written series that changed how i approach dialogue and humor on a fundamental level. also, i have the deepest respect for machinima as an art form.

[childishzombiejellyfish]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t it ultimately turn out that Angela was a slasher movie villain who just happened to be trans? Like that had absolutely nothing to do with her actual motives for being a slasher movie villain?

spoilers for the trashy horror films, complete over-analysis, and I hope I'm answering your question within this, but also I wanna write about this for a sec

a small CW for those movies, homophobia, and transphobia. I'm not describing anything in detail:

In the first movie her motives are that the people she goes after are cruel to her (and to her cousin). in the last scene it's shown that she killed her love interest, possibly because he rejected her or she imagined some form of rejection (ironically like a reverse hate crime there), but we don't see it happening -

the last sequence for her is that she and the love interest go down to the beach (I believe at her suggestion) and take off their clothes. when the camp counsellors find them, she's killed him and is covered in his blood and you get that infamous last shot that's supposed to make everything clear to a transphobic audience

the original backstory is that her sister and father (who is canonically gay, and it's hinted this might have added to some form of gender/sexuality confusion? it's not very clear, so I choose to not read it like that, but it's what I think is intended) were killed in a boating accident, and she was raised with her aunt -- actually sidenote there, it's a tragedy on its own that we see her father clearly in a loving relationship with another man, but their relationship wouldn't be recognised, and so that man could never have gotten custody over Angela, even though he was clearly already a second father to the kids.... this movie has a habit of skirting around real queer life issues without, I think, realising it, but that's also where I get the things that interest me about it

in the first film the story goes "Angela is actually a boy who was forced to live as a girl by her insane? evil? aunt" which is something seen in a few other horrors (and in vice versa - girl forced to live as a boy kills). Oddly enough that's... really close to making a point about transness -- that is, imagine if you were raised in a gender that you weren't -- it wouldn't make you a murderer, but it is bad for your mental health, that's correct enough

of course, that's not the point of the movie, the point is that Angela's gender confusion has driven her maaaad [eyeroll], but I actually like the movie as a whole, because -- as others have said before me -- it feels more like Carrie than, say, Dressed To Kill or Silence Of The Lambs, in which the killer is always seen from the outside as a complete, monstrous, other

Angela, like Carrie, isn't the other -- she's the protagonist

Both kill their bullies

Both are young girls alienated from traditional girlhood

Carrie's insecurities (and powers) are exacerbated by the romance she's not sure is real

Angela's insecurities (and murders) are exacerbated by the romance she's not sure is real

Both of them are raised by domineering, abusive women

By the end both of them "go too far" but you see where it started (literally the first person Angela attacks is a grown man trying to sexually assault her)

There is something (unintentionally?) empowering about first-movie-Angela -- it's the age-old horror allowance for a girl to let go and be the monster that people imagine girls to be, and it's also a tragedy, because originally the girl didn't want to be a monster at all and the liberation comes at the cost of Society and Sanity (two things that are overrated anyway amirite)

NOW

I've only seen the second of the follow-up instalments, but I believe it's also the last one in which transness is brought up -- in the opening some camp kids joke about Angela coming to get them and one of them says she had gender affirming surgery in a closed ward (lol, imagines it's that easy)

and then it turns out one of the counsellors is Angela and she systematically kills all of the kids for various perceived "bad" things they do (like smoking, having sex, using bad language, etcetc)

I know there are some people who prefer this movie and the next ones, in which I presume she just does the same sort of thing, and I did quite like to see that apparently it's no big deal that she's trans + if you're gonna go cis casting, they did in fact continue to cast a woman, like in the first one (although now it's Pamela Springsteen, Bruce Springsteen's sister, which is amazing to me) + it semi-retcons that ridiculous "she's not a girl, she was forced to be one" narrative, which man, you write that sentence and it gets turned around in your head, right?

The sequel: "She IS a girl, she's chosen to be one" much much better!

where I think the follow-up is weaker is in lack of Theme. Angela, to me, feels less realised than the Angela in the first movie, whom I actually relate a great deal to, even though I'm not transfemme (one of the people she murders, albeit overly gruesomely, demands to know why she doesn't shower with the rest of them and accuses her of being "a dyke" and I was like "ah, here's where the transmasc and transfemme experience really comes together")

there are a lot of scenes I could write about here, that I actually felt really personal about, but I won't because it'd get tangent-y --

the first movie, to me, is an incredibly Queer movie, not just with Angela, but also with her father and his partner -- the "evil" when I watch it, is all too easily read as the heterocisnormative violence that surrounds Angela and that she's fighting back at. When she was a younger kid, living with a father and his partner, she had a happy life

I don't say this is the intention of the movie, but it has enough Theme that you can build lots of reads out of it (incl, in my head, that she was already transfemme and her aunt picked up on it). The intention is a cheap knock-off of all those other movies that think gender-confusion is a psychologically deep reason for someone to commit murder, because they're fucking stupid, but at the same time I unfortunately think horror depicts transness better than other genres (so far), because so much horror is all about confusing dark emotions about bodies, the feeling of being trapped, and the pain of liberation... Angela is like Carrie, or Ginger, or Jennifer, but also not too dissimilar to Final Girls like Laurie, or Sally (in fact, the maniacal Final Girl laugh/scream that Sally is so famous for isn't too dissimilar from the last shot of Angela's face)

the sequel was fine. I can pluck out this and that in terms of read, but I think glossing over and "moving on" from her transness makes the movie weaker. Of course, the alternative is a bunch of cis film-makers trying to write transness, so probably we're spared something much much worse, and I am still intending to watch the rest, but I'm not personally a fan of "this person happens to be..." plots, because it feels contextless and narratively unfocused to me

In a way-too-broadly-cast opinion here (and there are plenty of outliers), if there is a main trans character, or a character of any gender, sexuality, race, ethnicity, class background, ability/disability, body-type etcetcetc. I think those things need to matter in the text, because they matter in real life -- and not in a "woe is me" way (although, sometimes that is the case), I mean mainly in a cultural way and in a self-awareness way -- how does Angela's transness affect the way she sees the world?

I think the closest I can get is that Angela of the sequel has overcorrected herself -- she has Learned how to be a correct person/woman (and conveniently shut herself out from experiencing the world) and now she wants to teach others the same. This is text, but it's not really delved into in any way, this is just what she does now, and possibly a side of "she never left that camp emotionally"

I wish she didn't try to have some moral high-ground, because it traps her again. I'd love for her to let loose, because of the belief that nobody can stop her! I want her to feel invincible. I'll see if the next movies give me that, but I do also wish her transness wasn't gone, because then I might as well be watching a cis woman, which isn't why I'm here -- I'm here to watch something Queer

and here is where I end my ramble!

I think it's a matter of personal taste. If you wanna watch Themes, the first one is better, if you wanna enjoy a rampage without having to endure transphobia, the sequel/s your go-to

TL;DR in the first movie Angela's transness does play into her motives, but not in the subsequent movie (nor, I believe, in the movies after that). There are upsides and downsides to skirting over Angela's transness, but it's all about what floats your movie-watching boat

[lilyharvord]

Hot take🔥: GS should've had Mare, Cal and Evangeline POVs. Not necessarily Cal's, but definitely Evangeline's.

Personally I'm not a fan of action sequences or fight scenes in general, I find it hard to visualize them and I usually skip them on rereads. The emotional side of the story, politics and the character interactions matter to me much more.

I feel like GS was too action packed when the political side is WAY more interesting. At that point Mare's internal monolog is just angst over Maven's betrayal, newbloods, her anxieties and Cal. While I don't blame her one bit and she's my favorite, it gets tiring after it gets hammered into you for so many pages. Having Evangeline's pov would've helped built her up as a character and a good way of keeping her, Maven and Elara in the story, since they basically disappeared for the entire book.

Let's be real, VA best written pov is Maven (#1) and Evangeline's. They're so intriguing to read and their povs are basically doors to explaining the political aspects of the silvers' lives.

I would've loved to see how Maven and Elara dealt with the court and what type of ploys they used. In just sad at the missed opportunity (also sad because while I hated her Elara makes an incredible villain and we didn't see her at action enough). Also imagine having a couple of chapters of Cal's pov from his time at the jail on Tuck, what happened after Mare passed away from the sounder on Harbour Bay (an action scene I would've loved to see from his pov) and a chiller chapter that starts with waking next to Mare (and maybe finding out about Maven's notes) and continuing with him training the kids and being the wholesome himbo he is.

Anyway sorry for this enormous essay💀, hope I made sense to you and I would love to hear your opinion!☺

You're good!! I LOVE ESSAYS (((: and this one is chock full of some HOT HAUT TAKES. I will try to tackle them one at a time. A novel gets a novel love, so enjoy (((:

1. I actually like Glass Sword with only Mare's POV. It's the book where she's falling apart, and we really get the time to delve into her and her psyche. We get to see the New Bloods and whatnot. it might have been fun to have another POV but I think it takes away from the fact that this is the book where we truly get to focus on what trauma and things like it do to someone.

2. I actually like battle scenes 🙈 I write a good number of them myself, and in my actual book I'm planning to publish I have a lot of those moments. But the talking and the political intrigue is also high in Red Queen. The world is so rich, it would have been fun to see more of it! I think Victoria crafts these massive worlds, and picks things to focus on that in my opinion are not always the best. Realm Breaker suffers from this a bit. But world building is low key my favorite thing in the whole world.

3. I dont think Cal's POV would have given us anything special. We pretty much know his thoughts in Glass Sword and the rest of the series cause the guy telegraphs his emotions across his face. But Evangeline would have been LOVELY to have. (She's my second favorite character behind Cal and his mama.) I think then we would have seen more of the court and it actually would have been more fun to see her view rather than Maven's.

4. I actually think Cameron, Mare, and Evangeline's POV's are the best 🙈. Maven didn't really interest me all that much, since I had already formed my opinion of him, and while i love him as a villian, I really see him as uh... cool motive still murder. So I don't necessarily sympathize with him all that much. Evangeline is just so deliciously interesting. She is a box of contradictions and I loved my metal bitch queen form the moment she showed up on the page. Getting a POV from her was the highlight of the series for me. (That and Cal, he's just such a dork and his thoughts really are just: gotta do this for my dad, oh look there's mare, I love her hair, she's so special, she really makes me wanna do things differently, I love her--wait I'm not supposed to anymore, oh but I love her.)

5. Elara is hands down one of the wildest villains in YA. Talk about taking helicopter parenting to the max level. I do wish we got to see her in action more, but I also see why we didn't. Her motives are pretty clear, and her actions are clear too.

6. FINAL HOT TAKE: Farley deserved a POV. I'm furious she never got one.

So there you have it, my thoughts (((:

[theonethatwatchesalotofshows]

All 18 episodes of Euphoria ranked from worst to absolute masterpiece

The absolute dumpsterfire:

All My Life My Heart Has Yearned for a Thing I Can Not Name (2x08) what was this mess of a finale, seriously? It hasn't resolved a single thing, Nate had a gun with him while speaking to his dad for no reason (Chekhov who?), Maddy and Cassie had a big fallout but now they're suddenly friends or what? What did Maddy mean by: "Don't worry, this is just the beginning"? Was it a threat? Or a warning? Rue suddenly doesn't owe a very dangerous drug dealer 10k? How did the scene of Rue and Lexi speaking after the play end up in the play?? I didn't even know who died, I actually thought it was Fez (and I know my friend was just as confused as me) until I looked it up on the Internet. Sorry, but that's bad writing. Also why was 10% of this episode wasted on a random song, like If get it, the guy can sing. But that doesn't mean I wanna see his concert, jeez. It's just an overall mess.

Snoozefests:

A Thousand Little Trees of Blood (2x06) filler. I have nothing more to say. Except Jesus Christ they made Kat into a real bitch.

Out of Touch (2x02) I literally did not remember anything about this episode and had to look up what happened which is a bad sign.

Ruminations: Big and Little Bully's (2x03) also filler just slightly funnier

Okay ones:

You Who Can not See, Think of Those Who Can (2x04) enterntaining and a real rollercoaster. I love the artsy shots in the end, especially Lexi in the theater and Cassie with the flowers. However this is the episode where Jules cheats on Rue with a boy so I'm ranking it low.

Trouble Don't Last Always- I liked the cute Rules fantasy sequence at the beginning and how the door opened and we found out it's actually not real and Rue is doing drugs in a diner bathroom. I loved how Ali called her out but the conversation was just a bit too long. They could've cut it much shorter.

Fuck Everyone Who's Not a Sea Blob- more enterntaining and aesthetically pleasing than Rue's special episode and we finally got some insight into Jules's head. But the random sex fantasy in the end went on for way too long and also the alcoholic mom bit seemed to be just thrown in to get sympathy for Jules because Sam Levinson noticed that she isn't very popular.

The Next Episode (1x06) obviously the Halloween costumes were iconic but I still feel like this is the weakest season 1 episode. At the beginning it's telling us McKay's backstory but the entire episode turns out to be more about Cassie. That weird hazing thing happens that is never mentioned again and the scene that follows is rapey and uncomfortable to watch.

This is where it gets interesting:

Stand Still Like a Humming Bird (2x05) raw, real with heavy subject matter. I mean it was very well written and executed, everyone's performances were great, but it's not exactly an episode I would like to go back to and rewatch. Once is enough in this case.

Trying to Get to Heaven Before They Close The Door (2x01) a promising start of the new season. Everyone's makeup and outfits were great, the tension during that bathroom scene was unbelievable and not to mention this was the beginning of Fexi. However the Rules reconciliation felt contrived and why did Fez not face any consequences for beating Nate up almost to death?? Seriously, it was a way too long and graphic scene that lead nowhere.

Stuntin' Like My Daddy (1x02) this is from the time where every episode was good (seriously, it's so hard to rank season 1) but some were better than others. This is the latter case. For one it follows our least favorite character (although we do feel some sympathy for him in his cold open) and two that Kat's argument with her principal was so cringy, like sorry but I can't imagine anyone winning an argument this way in real life.

Pilot (1x01) great pilot in terms of setting things up and introducing the characters, it's just that it was way too much from the start. The sex scene between call and Jules was gross and the opening and the first few lines felt like they were written by a 15 year old Wattpad writer trying to be edgy. But obviously, it's a good episode that got us hooked into the show.

Made You Look (1x03) how can we forget: "Fezco open the door! You did this to me!" One of the most heartbreaking scenes in tv history. Also Rules' first kiss! But it's also the beginning of Kat's sex work phase which was a very badly written storyline. Not to mention the young and impressionable audiencie that wildly misunderstood the point. Also this is the episode where Jules is falling in love with Nate (aka Tyler) and gets mad at Jules when she advices her not to meet him after dark at an abandoned place. So I'm mixed on this one.

'03 Bonnie and Clyde (1x05) again, very heavy subject matter. This is the episode where I first started liking Maddy. I liked how they showed the abusive relationship realistically and not through rose colored glasses like they usually do in teen dramas. They actually made Maddy a mess and not had her look amazing like they usually do on tv. And the girl who played younger Maddy is casting done right.

The masterpieces:

And Salt the Earth Behind Us (1x08) a much better finale then the second one. While it left things open and unfinished it was alluding to more. How can we forget the musical number (here it actually made sense) and the iconic shot of Jules leaving Rue at a train station with glitter tears streaming down her face (" 'cause I knew you, stepping on the last train, marked me like a blood stain...")

The Trials and Tribulations of Trying to Pee While Depressed (1x07) detective Bennet and Howard!! Iconic if you ask me. The girl who played young Cassie in the flashbacks is another example of casting done right. The dream sequence of her ice skating was gorgeous. While this is a very sad one with Cassie's abortion storyline and Rue ending up in the hospital, it also gives us much needed comic relief with the whole detective Bennet thing.

The Theater and It's Double (2x07) Lexi's play!! The one thing that exposed all of us and made us realize how we're also Lexis, bystanders and wallflowers in our lives. Fez planning to go with flowers and her saving him the best seat in the house was just so... The best season 2 episode by far. Actually one of the best. If you ignore the fact that Lexi is exposing her sister and all her friends in front of the whole school and their teachers it's really fun to watch.

Shook Ones Pt II (1x04) aka the carnival episode. The best most aesthetically pleasing one that also has a plot and a story to tell. I have no criticisms of this episode, it's just the best. A true masterpiece.

[commaclear]

Hello, I am quite the enjoyer of htid however I'm too much of a pussy to reveal myself, I am a semi-frequent commenter though.

So, here are my ideas:

So, firstly

1. Fundy and Slime's first meeting should be just as awkward as in canon. Fundy should be equally disgusted by our boy. Maybe they meet like, for example, Ranboo is having finals and can't babysit so he asks Wilbur if he can drop him off at his house and so Wilbur babysits but mostly leaves Slime to play with the big kids and chaos ensues. Slime and Tommy click while Fundy is just grossed out and trying to keep them our of big trouble.

2. Wilbur being less of a shit brother to Tommy. Also perhaps, if possible... Calamity duo crumbs (that's Tommy and Quackity btw) because this converts canon into domestic so subtly but so nicely that I just need a little of this specific duo sprinkled in. Maybe Tommy joins in with the tutoring by Quackity. Like, Fundy is lacking behind when everyone is rushing out of class to go home. So he sticks behind with him to eavesdrop a little and ends up joining them. Then he learns Quackity is has a pretty cool personality and he finally earns the title of 'Big Q'.

3. Okay, enough fluff. Now, angst. After finding out Wilbur was orginally going to leave him, Fundy is put into a phase where he really can't even bear to look at his dad the same way. He forgives him because in the end he still didn't leave him. However, this starts out a scene where he tries to runaway from everything, ahving no REAL friends of his own, his shitty mom and his APPARENTLY shitty dad. While he those this Wilbur notices his disappearance which starts out a desperate chase sequences. Suddenly, they pass someone who actually decides to take action. It's Sam (Awesamdude ofc)

"What the hell is going on here!"

The sudden yelling directed towards them make both Wilbur and Fundy stop in their tracks.

"I-I swear it's nothing weird! My son and I we just had a bit of a...scuffle... Don't worry about it I'll get it over with real-"

"Is he speaking the the truth kid?" the tall muscular man, who could probably break all Wilbur's bones within seconds, asks Fundy.

Then, with only a slight bit of hesitation, Fundy replies confidently. Leaving Wilbur shocked beyond belief he could't believe the words coming out of his mouth.

"No, he is just an old shitty foster parent and I was just his old foster kid."

Now, I won't continue this for reasons. But mainly, this is just me trying to somehow squeeze in the line in canon where Fundy tells Schlatt when he asked about his and Wilbur's relationship that, "He is just the founder and I was just born here" along the lines of that I think. Which hurt Wil a lot, lie or not. (also, it totally ends up with Sam taking him in for a while and they talk and eventually he goes back to Wilbur and yay happiness finally.)

I would love to write a fuck ton more despite already writing so much. But I'm tired as hell so. I'll spam you suggestions one of these days soon lmao.

(if you couldn't tell by the length already, I think you might have an idea about which commenter it might be)

Welcome!!

1. Oooh, Fundy and Slime!! That actually works perfectly with the HTID timeline from where we are rn.

2. *gasp* I hadn't thought abt Quackity actually getting the nickname Big Q in HTID canon. That would be perfect coming from Tommy! Also crime boys bonding would just be amazing. Like actual, functioning sbi family??? Yes please!

3. Fuck, man. You just wanna take over? /lh

But seriously, that's such a good idea. Sam my beloved, protector of minors, and a nod at Fundy and Wilbur's canon relationship?? Brilliant. I love it. Plus we have the big reveal moment where all of Wilbur's lies catch up with him. Peak drama. 10/10.

[coinofstone]

5x12 The Diamond of the Day pt 1

Final two episodes! Big finale! Why am I making myself cry in the middle of the afternoon! Both eps in this post.

I do love that they made Arthur a sore loser

Enter treacherous white woman #2. Srsly it was lazy writing when they did it for Mordred, it's worse now with Gwaine.

I do love the actual Round Table war room discussion but a) why isn't Merlin seated at the round table and b) why does Leon have so much goddamn faith in Camelot's walls? Like??? You literally said the same thing last year and yet Camelot *did* fall when Agravaine brought an army through the tunnels!

Poor Aithusa. Kid's had a rough life.

I do love Arthur responding to Merlin presenting him with all his supplies ready - which he prepared without his magic mind you - with suspicion 😂

But then he calls Merlin a coward and it's sad

Katie has such a great voice. That entire thing in the cave from her taunting to her laughter to the spell, it just just beautifully played.

Whole ass battle to prepare for and Arthur is just walking around moping cuz Merlin isn't there

So, Merlin's father-vision telling him he's magic itself and he just needs to believe in himself to get his magic going again, does this mean he *didn't* need to go to the cave to get it back? Cuz it seems like he needed to recharge in the cave itself, his injuries were healed when he woke up. That seems like magic cave stuff to me.

Also that "always have been and always will be" - I'm taking to mean 'always have been' in the sense that since he's 'magic itself' even before he was born, his magic existed in other, intangible forms, like we are all stardust etc. But now that he is, he will always be, aka he will not die.

Arthur waking up with his wife in his arms and Merlin's name on his lips, jumping out of bed to act on dream-info.

Balinor telling Merlin to trust in what will be.... like bitch that is literally not how this ends.

5x13 The Diamond of the day pt 2

You know that gif of the cat knocking everything off the table? That's literally Merlin shooting lightning at everyone from his perch on the ridge.

I have a lot of snarky things to say about Merlin coming out of the cave in full Dragoon gear and riding a horse instead of teleporting like the other witches but I'ma keep that to myself.

Mordred is a bitch and Aithusa has terrible aim. At least Aithusa's loyalty to Morgana makes sense.

Arthur said oh shit I'm magic - oh wait no it's that old man again

He also straight up "No! Bad dragon!"-ed Aithusa

Y'know, for all I've watched this episode and screamed about Arthur's death, I don't think I've ever focused on the exact moment he gets stabbed before.

Mordred catches him from behind and he meets it, no fault there. But as soon as he realizes his assailant is the knight who turned on him and joined Morgana, what does he do? HE LOWERS HIS FUCKING SWORD

He leaves himself wide fucking open and vulnerable and Mordred seizes the opportunity. I understand wanting the moment of recognition for Arthur, but on what planet is a trained warrior going to drop his sword mid-attack because he recognizes his attacker as a dude who only just recently decided to forsake him? It's soooooo dumb

There was a whole sequence a few episodes back where Mordred and Arthur are sparring, the point of it was to show that Mordred has become a skilled swordsman. So what exactly was the point in having Mordred run Arthur through as soon as Arthur idiotically lets his guard down? This should've been a meticulously choreographed sword fight, with Mordred getting the upper hand and sticking Arthur properly. Not this nonsense. Look at Arthur's FACE! Oh, Mordred... 👉👈 do you maybe wanna be friends again- STAB ... guess not

Uther's been rolling in his grave but he's taking an extra tumble watching Arthur forget all his skills and training in that moment.

I do appreciate Arthur getting Mordred back though. Like that moment of merciless anger followed by the hurt and regret playing on Arthur's face, warring with surety and responsibility. It was good.

I've rewatched the big confession scene about 16 times just now.

I don't quite understand why Merlin took Arthur to the woods to begin with. Instead of bringing him to the med tent in the battlefield or back to Camelot. What was the reason?

Merlin saying it feels strange (to use magic freely in front of Arthur) and him just going 'yeah' completely deadpan makes me laugh every time.

I really feel like Arthur's head should be elevated at a further incline if he's going to be fed.

Gaius refusing to outright expose Merlin as the sorcerer but nonetheless letting Gwen figure it out on her own warms my heart.

My God Arthur is sitting there dying, feeling betrayed about his best friend 'lying' to him, and still he can't stop himself from looking at Merlin's mouth.

Percival summoned MUSCLE POWER

Hey um random but why does Gwaine even know where Merlin and Arthur are headed? Why would Gaius tell him?

Arthur looks at Merlin so lovingly after he's killed Morgana 😭😭

And now he's literally grabbing at the man's hand 😭 "just hold me, please"

That's gotta be the gayest death scene in television history. If you can watch that without thinking Arthur puts his hand on the back of Merlin's head because some part of him wants to bring him down for a kiss, or that "just hold me, please" is in any way shape or form a 'bros' thing, and certainly not at all an intentional mirror/callback to Isolde dying in Tristan's arms, then I'm afraid you are what we professionals refer to as a dumb-as-nails fucknugget, more commonly phrased as 'willfully ignorant'.

"All that you have dreamt of building has come to pass" yeah except for the whole, y'know, magic still being illegal thing.

I've said this before, but, while I'm sure there was a determined intention to have Arthur die in his armor, probably in some kind of attempt to make sure the audience knows he's died a warrior's death, I *really* think it was kinda stupid that Merlin never removed it, despite Arthur being weak, despite the fact that there was something like five days between him getting stabbed and him actually dying, despite that for the duration of that time they were traveling or hiding out. Merlin managed to produce a cloak to put on Arthur, why did he need the full armor on that whole time? Like even if they left the chainmail on, those plates on his shoulder were just getting in the way, and it looked quite uncomfortable.

Also not for nothing but Lancelot got like, every flower in the forest surrounding lush verdant greens in his death boat, Arthur gets a bunch of sticks.

It suddenly occurs to me, watching this now, that the reason Leon/Percival is such a common side pairing in Merthur fics, is because these two motherfuckers are the only original Knights of the Round Table to survive the series. 🤦‍♀️ I dunno how I failed to notice that before now. My stupidity amazes me.

I'm *really* glad they decided to do this scene with Gwen wearing the Pendragon red dress instead of the black mourning dress. Yes she looks fabulous in it but it's more the symbolism than the 'reality' - with Gwen wearing her house's colors it represents a continuation rather than a finality. Camelot will go on, Gwen will undoubtedly end the war on magic and with Morgana dead (and frankly, I think by now she already brought about the death of all the angry incel type rulers in Albion) there stands to reason her reign will begin with a period of peace, possibly longer than Arthur's. We kind of have to assume that the 'time the poets speak of' is, inevitably, Gwen's reign - which only came about through Arthur's death. It's a little bit toooo subtle in my opinion, but at the same time, I understand the need for the focus on Merlin and Arthur - after all, this show was their journey - not leaving much time to focus on Gwen and Camelot in the aftermath of Arthur's death.

I will just say, the first time I watched this that fucking truck scared the ever living shit out of me. I also just immediately, viscerally hated that scene and declared it invalid - but I think it was because the truck made me jump out of my skin. It has since grown on me, particularly once I started reading 'Arthur Returns' fic.

Everything beyond this point is post-series spec and headcanon, so if that's not your jam you can exit safe in the knowledge that as usual, if there's anything worth commenting on in the S5 extras, I will create a separate post!

For those interested, my go-to post-series fic is We Begin Again by katherynefromphilly I fully headcanon this series as the continuation of the series.

I have a lot of thoughts about Gwen and Merlin post-Camlann.

For one, poor fucking Gwen. She's lost her father, her brother, and her husband, all by what, age 30? That's rough. And who knows what happened to her mom, that was pre-series and I don't think it was ever mentioned.

Merlin, dear god poor Merlin. First of all, I just wanna say straight off that my instinctive headcanon about Merlin was that he never returned to Camelot. I couldn't really say why exactly. I just don't think he could stand being there after Arthur's death. But practically speaking, Merlin's still got Aithusa to deal with, that dragon needs some godsdamned house training asap. He's still the last Dragonlord, it's reasonable to assume he'd immediately take that on considering Aithusa is partially responsible for Arthur's death (the sword Mordred killed Arthur with, only succeeded in killing Arthur because it had been forged in Aithusa's fire-breath) so he's either going to attempt to train the bad behaviors out of Aithusa, or...well...

The only thing is, I do not believe Merlin would abandon Gwen, or Gaius. So my hc is inherently flawed. I do think Merlin probably spend a couple months with his mum, and I do think he ultimately settled near lake Avalon waiting for Arthur's return.

But I do wonder, what must their relationship have been like? Gwen, surely, would've sought his guidance in establishing laws governing the use of magic. And surely, peace cannot last indefinitely, so Merlin absolutely would've defended Camelot and protected Gwen. There's just no way he could've completely turned his back on them, but I doubt he could bear living in Camelot. And Gwen is both strong and practical enough to get on without him there 24/7, even though I'm sure she'd miss him.

I also think she would've found love again. Whether with Leon, as many people hc, or someone else not in the series.

ANYWAY.

Thanks to everyone who came on this journey with me. I will post comments on the extras if I have anything worth saying - and I think I'll do a master post linking all these episode posts after I clean them up once I get time to sit at a computer and do so. Until then! 💙💚

(Gif source) (h/t @shut-up-merlin)