#* whole 'nother discussion

[royalarchivist]

Quackity: Lately, I have been participating in events and projects, and unfortunately it's become clear to me that my presence and name have only been used to attract the attention of my national and international community with the objective, as I see it, of generating more attention towards controversies - destructive controversies, and a rupture that is very clear in the community. [...] In advance, I ask the organizers of any type of events and projects like this to please show more respect to me and my community, because I've shown lots of sympathy and cooperation in these various projects and events, but it's become clear to me that their only interest is in using my name. My name and my community have been used to attract all this attention for distorted purposes, and I will no longer allow that to happen. That is not what my content is about - not me nor my content nor anything I’ve done.

Here's Quackity's commentary on respect and his reasoning for distancing himself and his projects from future events and awards shows.

[ Full Transcript ↓ ]

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Quackity: Before I leave, I would like to talk about something that is very serious for me and something that I would like to tell you about. Because for me it is a very serious topic and it is a topic that- well, I had my mind on and I want to express it- [reading Chat] yes, thank you. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas.

Anyways, lately I have been participating in events and projects, and in these events and projects, unfortunately it's become clear to me that my presence and name have only been used to attract the attention of my national and international community with the objective, as I see it, of generating more attention towards controversies - destructive controversies, and a rupture that is very clear in the community, and this is what I want to say: I'm NOT ok with these types of dynamics or stuff like this, and I want to make it very clear to my stream, my community, and everyone that, for this exact reason that I just mentioned, I want to make it clear that I want to distance myself and any of my projects from the Esland Awards, which you all know is coming up.

Sadly, the Esland Awards have been an event with a history of much controversy, a lot of division, and a lot of divisions within the community, and as you guys know, as you know, my content has never been characterized by seeking controversy or divisions or anything like that. It's for this exact reason that I don't want to be involved with these awards.

In advance, I ask the organizers of any type of events and projects like this to please show more respect to me and my community, because I've shown lots of sympathy and cooperation in these various projects and events, but it's become clear to me that their only interest is in using my name. My name and my community have been used to attract all this attention for distorted purposes, and I will no longer allow that to happen. I don't want it to happen. That is not what my content is about - not me nor my content nor anything I've done. That's what I want to make very clear here.

That's about it. I'm going to continue with the projects I'm doing and I want to thank my community so much for the support and love. I appreciate it very much, but I wanted to make this clear - I wanted to make this clear. This is just a topic I wanted to address quickly.

Thank you for all the love and support, I love you all so much.

[t4transsexual]

every time a trans/nonbinary person uses the term afab/amab to describe their gender or another trans/nonbinary persons gender an angel loses its wings

[ghostlyruinstrash]

currently going insane over how much this scene reminds me of that voxtagram post

vox goes to see val who's having another temper tantrum and throws a drink at him, why does that sound familiar?

oh yeah.

like ofc their relationship has changed a lot since voxtagram, but most of that is definitely due to changes to vox' character rather than the way val treats him.

val still seems perfectly happy to hit and or throw things at vox even when it's not him val is angry at, the only real change here is that vox has gotten better at dodging.

which makes me wonder whether the relationship we saw on voxtagram (something that ofc is no longer canon) has really retconned or if it will just become a backstory for them, what their relationship was like before vox got as good as he is at dealing with val's shit. probably not but it would be interesting.

[starstriix]

is it just me or do some people exaggerate or misinterpret jo's interactions with brick. I've seen jock being called "physically abusive"???? the ONLY violent thing jo has done out of malicious intent towards brick was crush his hand to assert dominance. That is absolutely nothing to how jo treats other people (throwing cameron like a ragdoll, using lightning as shark bait, hell she was about to beat the shit out of dawn), or how canon couples have treated each other in the show (cartoon slapstick, guys. I’m not saying they’re physically abusive).

I don't even count the slapping thing because it was in a "snap out of it, man!" way and it was def out of concern judging by the look on her face. The most jo does to brick is call him mean names or strategize against him which she does to literally everyone. Even brick sees it as her trying to annoy him. He literally takes part in their competition as well; it's not jo harassing him, it's a RIVALRY. She just teases him the most because she interacts with him the most (because she LIKES competing with him).

Idk i don't like basing how she'd act in a relationship on how she acts in a competition to win a million dollars, and I don't like when people portray their relationship as if brick's some poor defenseless victim to jo's antics. It's a rivalry.

[shikai-the-storyteller]

Pac talking about how the fandom always calls him a wife, get their asses Pac. The weird forced gender norms fandoms do to MLM pairs (and sometimes to WLW pairs, if they even pay attention to them) is so frickin weird. There's no "man of the relationship" or "woman of the relationship" its just the whole uke seme thing all over again

[neige-leblanche]

but yeah. the fact is i don't have the specific kinds of trauma that fandoms in general tend to discourse abt (nor the specific kind in my last post) so this isn't an authoritative opinion but it does seem kind of anti-recovery to imply that other people shouldn't engage intellectually with the subjects of *your* trauma

[amplifyme]

So here’s the thing. I’m really troubled by the way local authorities and the media are warning folks beforehand about the level of brutality in the video that’ll be released tonight of the murder of Tyre Nichols. Part of me tries to explain it as “forewarned is forearmed” and as an attempt to proactively guard against the possible violence during the protests that are sure to follow. But another part of me looks deeper than that.

If you’re told over and over that you’ll be shown something that’s extremely violent and disturbing, human beings will tend to imagine the very worst thing that comes to mind. They will create images in their heads of what their own individual nightmare scenario looks like. And those images will continue to play in their heads in preparation. Because we all know that it’s usually the anticipation of something bad happening that frightens us most, not the actual event. This is the premise that most, if not all, horror movies are based on. Get the audience hyped up, build the tension and anxiety so that when the thing you’re dreading actually appears before you, there is a moment afterward when you can exhale and think to yourself, “Okay, that wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. It was horrific, but I made it through.”

But we should NEVER, NEVER witness the killing of a human being by the same people who are supposed to be protecting us from senseless violence, and come out the other side of it thinking that way. It should never be commonplace or in any way considered to just be a part of our social fabric. We should NEVER become inured to such brutality.

I, for one, will not be watching the video. I have no desire to witness a young man being beaten to death. I made the mistake of watching the Facebook Live video of the murder of Philado Castile in 2016 and swore that I’d never do it again. I don’t need to watch video to know what they did to Tyre Nichols, to George Floyd, to Tamir Rice, to Sandra Bland, to countless and sometimes nameless others, and what they continue to do to primarily black and brown bodies in this country every single day. I don’t need to see it to know this country and many of its citizens are fundamentally broken. 

Stand up, stand strong. Demand change. Maybe this time we’ll get it.

[sage-nebula]

I've now finished all available story content for Pokémon Scarlet in my replay, and with everything fresh in my mind again, I want to share some Thoughts™. Note that these are only thoughts on the storytelling, and not on any other elements (gameplay etc).

First, on the original scenario:

While I don't think that this is the greatest story in a Pokémon game yet like some others do (I still think that honor goes to BW), I can definitely see why SV's story appeals to those that it does appeal to. Arven's story is heartwrenching, and Penny's / Team Star's is relatable to anyone who has had to suffer bullying, only to be labeled the bully themselves when they try to do something about it. Nemona's story unfortunately suffers the most; you don't really get any insight into who she is or what her struggles are until post-game, and even then you have to seek her out to discover any of that. It makes sense, in a way; Nemona is mostly just there to give the player incentive to tackle the Gym challenge. Still, it's unfortunate because I think that her character (an Ace in every way who is therefore isolated from her peers as a result) is one that would have been really interesting to explore in more depth.

Having said all that, I think the biggest detriment to SV's storytelling is that it keeps the three rivals completely separate until the trip into Area Zero, with the exception of a bit of bickering between Nemona and Arven in the beginning (and a tiny bit of Penny's added in when you're about to leave on the Treasure Hunt). I think most in the fandom agree that the trip into Area Zero is SV's strongest point; unfortunately, none of the Area Zero stuff is truly relevant until that point, and the rivals don't get to talk to (and therefore befriend) each other before that point, either. As a result, it makes their friendship in the end feel forced / weak. They have a few conversations in Area Zero and now they're besties? I don't really buy it. Especially since they spent the first few conversations antagonizing each other.

Instead, I think it would have made everything a lot more cohesive to have the three of them interact with each other at different points throughout the main story. Either they could happenstance cross paths whenever one of them is talking to the player, or the game could have taken a truly original track and have the school send players out on the Treasure Hunt in groups of four, grouping Arven, Penny, Nemona, and the player together in one group to travel across Paldea together. Of course, it would seem a bit busy to have all three rivals constantly running alongside you, but there could have been a base camp that all four would return to at the end of the day, and we could have had interactions between them there. Showing the three rivals befriending each other over the course of the entire Treasure Hunt would have made them cementing their friendship in Area Zero (and things like Penny calling Nemona and Arven treasured friends on par with the Team Star bosses) make a whole lot more sense.

A quick aside on Team Star — I think Game Freak fumbled this storyline pretty badly. Penny's Not Reveal aside (who didn't know she was Cassiopeia, like . . . really), it seems that what Game Freak wanted with Team Star was to make the whole team, grunts included, victims of rumor mongering. This is made apparent at the end of the Caph Squad segment, when Clavell brings up that there are rumors of Team Star bullying other students, and Carmen is like, "After hearing what we all have to say, do you really think that's the case?" And that's fine, except . . .

We are shown that Team Star grunts bully students at the start of the game.

Granted, it is only one scene. But our introduction to Penny is her being harassed by Team Star grunts to join up, and then them turning that aggression onto the player. It's contradictory to show us that some Team Star grunts do bully other students, only to then backpedal completely and say they don't. And I think that this could have been used as Penny's motivation; that, instead of being worried about her friends being expelled, Penny realized that the organization was way too big and that bullies were using it as a shield to bully other students, and that that's why it had to be brought down. Bringing this to the attention of the other bosses could have also been used as their motivation to step down, which would have made a lot more sense than the "well the rules say so." It would have further cemented the fact that they were victims of bullying themselves who would never want to see anyone else bullied again, either.

But back to the main story — aside from thinking that it is a waste that we don't get to see the rivals interact with each other and build their friendship up over the main story, I also think it is a waste that the absolute coolest part of SV's story (the Area Zero lore) is completely packed into the final segment of the game, bearing almost no relevance otherwise. I mean, true, Arven is searching for the Herba Mystica to heal Mabosstiff, and that comes from Area Zero. But we don't learn why he has that book, what relevance that book has, or what the professor was up to until the final segment of the game. We're told Area Zero is off-limits because it's dangerous, but aside from the fourth Titan battle (or was it the third?) we don't see any paradox pokémon on the surface or learn anything about the professor other than that they are Arven's parent and they invented the Tera Orb. And I think that is a waste; there is so much cool lore in SV, and the professors themselves are fascinating characters because they're not exactly good but they also aren't evil, but we just don't really get to engage with that until the very end of the story (and now the DLC). I'm not entirely sure how this could be fixed without completely reworking the story (though I'm sure I could come up with ideas if I found the time to think on it), but it's just disappointing that the best part of the story is at the very end.

All in all, I don't think SV has the worst story in the series. That dishonor still goes to XY. But I think that it's a shame that its strongest points (the rivals + the lore) are things that just didn't have the right amount of investment into them. I think that having the rivals at bare minimum get to interact in scenes throughout the three campaigns would have helped their characters and relationships and would have better sold the "they are besties now" ending to the Area Zero segment. An even better solution, imo, would be to have them all accompanying the player on the journey even if they aren't always on-screen together, with designated camping scenes at different points in the game, more little micro conversations (albeit ones better worked in; something like skits in the Tales series would work better than what we got in Area Zero), and perhaps continued arguing over which way the player should go next, since they all have their own agendas, too. And as for the lore, just being able to see more of an effect Area Zero had on Paldea would have helped with that a great deal. Have more paradox pokémon escaping and people freaking out about it, have the A.I. professor guiding an unwitting player into making the situation worse somehow. Something, so that we're given reason to really want to go into Area Zero at the end, versus just "well the professor said to, so I gotta."

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the storytelling in SV. There are a lot of weaknesses, but those weaknesses mostly stem from the potential that is there that was not realized. I will say that so far the story DLC has been a step in the right direction, especially where the Mossui siblings are concerned; the two of them knowing each other so well and having a pre-existing relationship does a lot of their characters, both individually and together. Now we just have to wait and see if the Indigo Disk DLC sticks the landing. I really hope it does.

But for now, I sleep.

[retiredcultistredux]

The others? Who? - Lollipop anon

Quincy: "Alright, hang on--BEATRICE! ABBADON! Can you guys come over here? It's important!"

A few seconds passed, and then...

[Beatrice and Abbadon are now available for questions.]

(Note: Abbadon is selectively mostly mute and won't answer the questions verbally, but he can still be asked them. And yes I know it's not the traditional/more common spelling, it's like that on purpose.)

[thankskenpenders]

Help me out here: Why is there so much Ian Flynn hate going around lately? I thought everyone loved that he was contributing to the games. Now suddenly they aren't. I guess that's par for the course for this series but I don't get it. He isn't perfect but I like what he's done. Am I a weirdo?

Ian Flynn has always had a lot of fans, but any creator putting their work out there is going to have detractors as well. That's just the nature of being an artist. To some extent, it's no big deal. He's not a perfect writer. Nobody is! I consider myself a fan of his work, but I've criticized plenty of individual writing decisions from him on here.

But Ian doesn't just have critics. He has his own obsessive hatedom. And the specific nature of Ian's hatedom is... interesting.

A decade ago, Ian was only the guy writing for Archie Sonic, meaning any debates over his work were quarantined within that tiny niche of the larger Sonic fandom. Only people who kept up with the comics month to month had any real reason to have an opinion on the guy, which means we're talking about merely thousands of fans as opposed to millions.

Within that group, he had some haters. You had the people who were mad about story changes made during his run, particularly things like ancillary characters getting killed off (although over the years we've learned that most of those were editorial mandates from Mike Pellerito). You had the people mad that Ian didn't push their favorite ship, with feuding SonAmy and Sonally fans claiming that he was CLEARLY biased towards one or the other. You had the people who just really, really liked one of the previous writers way more - usually Penders, as hard as that may be to believe today. That sort of thing. Pretty normal comic fandom type stuff. Again, it comes with the territory.

Unfortunately, many of those haters only got worse over time, morphing into reactionaries who constantly try to incite Comicsgate type culture war bullshit.

There are people still mad at Ian for making Sally bi and pairing her with Nicole instead of Sonic in the later Archie comics. There have been elaborate MS Paint red string conspiracy boards explaining how people like Ian and Jon Gray have apparently been destroying the franchise from the inside for years by Making Sonic Woke. (Jon gets dragged into this because people are still mad about him drawing The Slap 20 years later. Yes, really!!) There was an unhinged change.org petition trying to get Ian fired, specifically from people who were mad that the Freedom Fighters aren't in the IDW comics. There was even a very sad little fan campaign from these people trying to get Sega to move the Sonic comic license away from IDW and over to Udon, because they thought Udon would bring Sally and Bunnie back and also make them sexy again. There's a lot of this.

(Unfortunately, Penders has also exacerbated this by gossiping about Ian on Twitter and giving these fans ammo, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.)

The thing is, for years, people who only played the games or watched the cartoons had no reason to pay attention to any of this. Now, though, Ian isn't just writing for some weird spinoff comics that only the super nerds read. Now he's writing comics that are canon to the games, and ALSO some of the games themselves, and ALSO consulting on other tie-in media like Sonic Prime, and ALSO writing the official Sonic encyclopedia, and ALSO serving as part of the new Sonic Lore Team at Sega. And on top of all this, he's got an increasingly popular podcast where he fields questions about his work on all of these things, which serves as one of the fandom's main windows into creative decisions being made behind the scenes.

As a fan of Ian's work, it's been really cool to see him rise in prominence. But the dark side of this is that his obsessive haters from the Archie days now have WAY more of a potential audience of their own. Now, every Sonic fan has to have an opinion on Ian. What this frequently means is that you'll have the Comicsgate types taking things Ian writes or says out of context, attempting to get more of the general fandom to yell at the guy.

Unfortunately, there are a wide variety of Sonic fans who take the bait:

You've got hardcore fans who disliked basically any recent piece of Sonic media and are looking for someone to blame.

You've got the people who are concerned about the sanctity of Sonic's canon, who shoot the messenger any time Ian mentions a new retcon from Sonic Team on the podcast - or any time he even mentions the THOUGHT of changing anything about the canon, as we saw recently with the Sol Dimension nonsense.

You've got people who romanticize some sort of mythical artistic vision that Sega of Japan supposedly has (or had) for the franchise. To many of these fans, American contributors like Ian just don't "get" the heart of the series and are trying to turn Sonic into something different. (This "heart of the series" tends to be some mix of Japanese instruction manual lore, the cinematics from Sonic CD, the OVA, and/or the games written by Shiro Maekawa, depending on what Sonic media the fan in question grew up with.)

You've got fans of specific characters or ships who pin the blame for how their faves are depicted entirely on Ian - most vocally fans of Shadow, even though the root problem is that Sonic Team hasn't known what to do with Shadow since 2006. At best this stops at regular old criticism, but at its worst this devolves into claims that Ian has an agenda against certain characters.

You've got fans annoyed by a perceived over-emphasis on comic-original characters in the IDW comics, ignoring the obvious facts that these characters exist because the game cast is so tightly controlled by Sega, and also, you know, that people just like the IDW characters and want more stories about them.

You've got a LOT of discourse over IDW's Sonic being a hero who tries to give his enemies second chances, as if half of Sonic's closest friends aren't already former villains and rivals. Honestly this is very transparently just reheated Steven Universe discourse lmao

You'll also see people who just think they could do Ian's job better. They can't believe that THIS GUY is the American fan working on all these Sonic projects, when clearly THEY understand the characters and lore and themes SO much better than this charlatan.

All it takes is for someone in one of these categories to be unhappy about some recent piece of Sonic media, and for them to come across an out of context quote or comic panel that rubs them the wrong way, and suddenly the leftist Zoomer Sonic fans will join the latest dogpile on Ian alongside the reactionary Comicsgate types who are mad at him for Making Sonic Woke.

In general, when fandoms get upset, they tend to want a scapegoat. A person or two to point a finger at and go "THAT's who ruined the thing I love!" This tends to be based less on reality and more on which contributors are the most visible online. You'll sometimes see teenage and adult fans of children's cartoons single out a storyboarder who's particularly vocal on Twitter, blame them for every story decision they don't like, and harass them off the platform out of a sense of retribution for their favorite ship or whatever. Failing that, fans might choose to blame every nitpick, down to individual lines of dialogue and frames of animation, on a showrunner, just because that's the name they associate with the show. And unfortunately, when it comes to Sonic, Ian is now arguably the most prolific and outspoken contributor on the English speaking internet, and therefore a common scapegoat.

Some of the things I've seen Ian blamed for are truly wild. A lot of people have claimed for YEARS that he's just lying about the existence of creative guidelines and restrictions from Sega - or, as fans call them, The Mandates - even though they're just an inherent aspect of working on a licensed property. Others claim that The Mandates are real, but somehow Ian's fault. A vocal minority of fans have convinced themselves that Ian is the sole reason the Freedom Fighters don't exist in the IDW comics, even though Ian says he's been pushing to bring them back since day one.

Sometimes you'll see people say he ruined shit he didn't even work on. A few weeks ago on Twitter I saw someone claim that Ian had written a rejected script for Sonic Forces in which Tails died. I could not find a source for this for the life of me. As far as I can tell, the rumor seems to have been born from an alleged leaked script for Forces with margin notes from Aaron Webber that criticized the way Tails was written, and also an old tweet where Aaron joked that Tails would die in an upcoming episode of Sonic Mania Adventures. These merged into "Aaron Webber criticized a draft of the Forces script in which Tails died." How'd Ian get dragged into this? Who fucking knows!

It's all just a big game of telephone. All it takes is some asshole to make something up about Ian on Twitter or YouTube or a DeviantArt journal or some forum, and at least a couple people will believe it, and then it gets repeated as fact. Again, this used to be contained by the niche nature of the Archie Sonic fandom, but now there are WAY more people who are receptive to this shit.

It's just sad to me that Ian tries to be so open and honest about his work, to try to explain the rationale for certain things, to keep fans looped in on the direction the franchise is headed, and this just gives the Flynnspiracy types more quotes to take out of context and try to paint him as the devil. If it sounds like I'm being overly defensive and dismissing his critics, man... some of the things I've seen people say directly to him are just unbelievable. People will send paragraphs-long angry screeds in to his podcast that completely tear him apart, and he has to sit there and be like "Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it." People literally pay for special guest interview episodes where they just rapid fire complaints about his writing at him directly to his face. I don't know how he does it. I would snap.

All of this over Sonic the fucking Hedgehog of all things.

I don't know how to wrap this up. Engaging with fandoms online is very tiring, which is why I tend not to do it. Things like this are too common. I guess, just... remember that making art collaboratively is a complicated thing. The people involved are generally trying their best given the circumstances, but they're only human. They make mistakes. But please treat them like humans. Criticism and dogpiling are not the same thing.

[mamapyjama]

I woke up thinking about vestige Katsuki casually having a chat with vestige All Might. WHAT THE DUCK was happening there if not something seriously fruity and why did we not circle back to it once we’d got over the fact that his heart had exploded?!

What must non-bkdks think is going on? I’m not even sure if we’ve fully discussed what is going on? Whyyy would he have a vestige if he doesn’t have OFA?

It’s not ghosts because a) ghosts haven’t been introduced as a concept in-universe and b) AM is there and he ain’t dead.

SO WHAT IS HAPPENING? Did we just totally overlook the fact that Hori made it canon that Katsuki either has OFA or just has access to the vestige realm for reasons unknown?

Also why is he fully clothed and able to speak, when poor Izuku spent every vestige scene nude and mute? And why is the background white not black? Vestige purgatory? A vestige waiting room?

I feel like when you suddenly realise you haven’t studied and the class has all moved on to new topics and you’ve somehow missed a key, fundamental part of how The Whole Thing works.

If anyone has meta on this please point me towards it because at this point I’m—

Edit 19.01.23: before anyone else tells me he had OFA in the movie, I know. 😙 I wrote a whole ‘nother bit about it here:

Edit 21.01.23: added All Might’s vestige for reference. ✌️

[jalapainio]

I think the biggest flaw of Bruce, though he has many, is his projection of himself on everyone. He sees himself in everybody, and this shapes the way he thinks, the way he acts, and his relationships.

When Dick's parents die, Bruce sees himself when his own parents died, and thus gives Dick that which he wanted the most; the ability to go and beat up the person who killed his parents. Bruce refuses to kill because somewhere the criminal has a family, parents or a child, and Bruce cannot bring himself to cause the pain that affected him so long ago.

Bruce believes that he will snap at any moment, that if he killed, he would lose it (part of his very low self worth, which is a whole nother discussion), so he plans for everyone else to do so as well. He does not tell anyone anything and so he believes no one else will tell him.

The most critical mistake Bruce makes, however, is that when someone isn't like him, he fails to see it or can't understand it. He can't understand Jason, because when Bruce sees Jason, he sees himself, not Jason. Bruce doesn't understand the world anymore.

Bruce really needs therapy. And retirement.

[terapsina]

Yeah, no. That was absolutely meant to be the real Anakin. And Ahsoka really and actually was pulled into the World Between Worlds (probably by Anakin's Force Ghost... or possibly by Anakin the Newest Mortis Force Avatar? (but that's a whole 'nother discussion)).

And all the proof one needs is in the fact that Jacen actually sensed Ahsoka lightsaber battle with her old Master.

And the fact that Hera's x-wing pilots couldn't locate any signs of Ahsoka until after she was done having her final lesson with Anakin, despite having done a throughout grid-search already.

And the fact that when she was found she was unconscious, and if she'd been in the physical world that entire time, she'd have drowned. Jedi aren't immortal. And togruta aren't aquatic.

It took hours between Ahsoka falling from that cliff (when it was dark outside) and Hera showing up and finding Huyang cradling Sabine's helmet (when it was light outside). If it had been a vision or a hallucination -> She. Would. Have. Drowned.

Essentially. It was ABSOLUTELY real.

[curufiin]

*brandishes a notebook and mechanical pencil* tell me everything

OKAY. SO. (oh my god this is so long)

VERY basic lore there was this guy called Fëanor who was apparently just the SEXIEST fucking elf ever. Like canonically one of the hottest guy to have ever existed.

For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike: of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him.

He had seven kids (and a LOT of war crimes), topic for another discussion because we’re mainly focused on the two that everyone is freaking out about. For reference their names (in birth order) are Maedhros, Maglor, Celegorm, Caranthir, Curufin, Amrod, and Amras. We’re gonna look at Celegorm and Curufin specifically.

So, one of the most notable things about Celegorm and Curufin is that (aside from literally maybe three occasions), they’re basically always mentioned together.

“Celegorm was almost always in the company of his brother Curufin / Curufin was almost always in the company of his brother Celegorm” — Tolkien Gateway

In fact, in an early draft of Silm, Curufin was actually the fourth son of Fëanor, and not the fifth. Not sure why he changed it but yeah, they’re basically best friends on top of being bros. They ruled a kingdom together and committed many war crimes together and it was good!

Celegorm, specifically, is extra special. He and his brothers belong to a group of elves called the Noldor, which is kinda like a nationality/ethnicity. They’re noteworthy for having dark hair, and they looove making things like jewelry and other forge objects. In fact, Fëanor was so good at it that if he wasn’t, this book wouldn’t even exist but anyway. Celegorm is special because he literally just straight up fails to be a typical Noldo because why the hell not I guess?!?!?

In the book he is given the epithet “the Fair”, and in canon it’s up for debate whether fair is used in the sense that he’s super hot or fair as in light colored in reference to his hair. However, multiple early drafts state that he has “golden” or “gleaming” hair, or some other wording, but either way his hair was noted to Not Be Black even though Parent 1 had black hair and Parent 2 had reddish hair.

But up there starts / amid the throng, and loudly cries / for hearing, one with flaming eyes, / proud Celegorm with gleaming hair / and shining sword — The Lay of Leithian

“Then Celegorm arose amid the throng (p. 169). In QS this is followed by ‘golden was his long hair’. In the Lay at this point (line 1844) Celegorm has ‘gleaming hair’; his Old English name was Cynegrim Fægerfeax (‘Fair-hair’), IV. 213. The phrase was removed in The Silmarillion text on account of the dark hair of the Noldorin princes other than in ‘the golden house of Finarfin’ (see I. 44); but he remains ‘Celegorm the fair’ in The Silmarillion p. 60.” — Christopher Tolkien’s nonsensical ramblings I pasted from Tolkien Gateway because I don’t have some of these books. Basically every mention of Celegorm with something about his hair color

In published Silm, Christopher removes the mention of Celegorm’s hair color and I will kill him for it, but as he said he is still referred to as Celegorm the Fair in the narrative, so Tolkien probably did intend on “fair” being used to talk about his hair color. Popular fanon often draws him with either very light blonde or straight up white hair as well. This is a whole nother thing but all you need to know is that this guy’s blonde and it’s SUPER weird.

The Noldor also love making things. There are many, many mentions in the book of their love for making things and shiny gems, and I will put a few of them here

“The Noldor also it was who first achieved the making of gems…”

And it came to pass that the masons of the house of Finwë, quarrying in the hills after stone (for they delighted in the building of high towers), first discovered the earth-gems, and brought them forth in countless myriads; and they devised tools for the cutting and shaping of gems, and carved them in many forms.

Many jewels the Noldor gave them, opals and diamonds and pale crystals…

So on and so forth. The Sons of Fëanor are even said to visit the house of Aulë (god/patron of rocks and gems and making shit) often. However, Celegorm was the noteworthy exception, because he likes hunting, and instead followed the teachings of Oromë, patron/god of animals and hunting shit and what have you.

but Celegorm went rather to the house of Oromë, and there he got great knowledge of birds and beasts, and all their tongues he knew.

He even got a dog from Oromë! Why is this important, you ask? Well okay it’s not but popular fanon tends to portray him as tall and strong and muscular, presumably because of the hunting, and i’m sure riding horses all day in Beleriand’s shaped up his thighs quite nicely. Anyway so that’s why Celegorm is literally Elton Prince. ONTO CURUFIN WHICH SHOULD BE SHORTER.

Curufin is named “Curufin the Crafty” in the book, and he “inherited most his father’s skill of hand”. He’s also his dad’s favorite son because they bave such similar interests (and temperament?), to the point that Fëanor gave Curufin the same father name he had, which is Curufinwë. Not a set up for daddy issues later in life, I’m sure.

Since Fëanor was such a renowned Thing Maker and toiled often in the forge, and since Curufin was said to inherit dad’s skill, you could probably assume that he also spent many long hours in the forge hammering away at whatever. And all that hammering (not the sexy kind sadly), on top of Hot Dad genetics, would probably mean that Curufin is also pretty hot and muscular. Personally I like to draw Curufin as being short and a little pathetic just for comedic effect but I’m sure he’s got some well formed muscles from all that hammer swinging and horse riding.

Celegorm and Curufin in fanon (and arguably even in canon even though their canon selves are a lot more grim and depressing) tend to have this almost cartoony villain bro vibes? They also tried to usurp their cousin’s kingdom city together, which was what I quoted in that other post of yours. This comic illustrates the more lighthearted version of their dynamic extremely well because in book canon… let’s just leave it at they’re criminals LOL.

Other cunty depictions of Celegorm and Curufin which will describe their dynamic way better than my words can.

This from the Lay of Leithian Rock Opera

Another one for good measure

Guys come on now

I’m sorry i’m looking at their VK page

Here Curufin reached for the crown and Celegorm moved it out of his way COME ON

They’re so fucking extra

Basically they’re like Jesse and James but a thousand times more evil but they have that vibe. Think funny, bantery, sometimes a little comically stupid (assuming you’re not putting them in book situations then they get real nasty real fast). Which means they’re the WWE bros. I hope this makes sense

[astralnymphh]

I just got on and saw what’s been happening and bro…I’m glad people are talking about it. Mostly about the smut, inclusivity, Palestine, and the fetishization of trans people.

Reading smut is so underwhelming like it seems like that’s all what people write these days. Like I need ANGST! I need to CRY! I need SLOW BURN AND PLOT….

And to be honest, I personally feel like some writers purposely list the reader’s physical descriptions as being white… like damn you know multiple people are going to come across your shit. I would get annoyed asf when I see something like “she touched your soft pale flushed skin” BITCH- 💀 don’t piss me off 😒🦶🏽

I won’t speak too in depth about the fetishization of trans people in fanfics because I’m not trans and I don’t want to say anything inaccurate BUT I will say it’s so disturbing and off putting seeing shit like that and seeing how people are sexualizing trans people more than treating them like regular humans…I also came across that ‘femcel’ series and🧍🏽‍♀️erm… no.

I appreciate the account who made the post discussing how the word trans and the f word are completely different. I didn’t even know that word was derogatory and it shocked me... I hope that account takes it down and they educate themselves or something cause 🙁👎🏽

yes pook YES smut can be underwhelming and so overdone. we definitely need more angst/fluff.. or just PLOT in general. no, i'm not saying don't write it at all (incase anons twist my words, cause.. they're good at that.) i'm just saying that it would be nice to see some fully fleshed out pieces with emotion and storytelling. i have something in the works though, that encompasses all genres (fluff/smut/angst) so, there's that!

people will so clearly write the whole petite pale white girl bs like "ur delicate small hand" or the fuckass "doey eyed and blushing cherub red" like NEVER portray reader so specifically unless you're going to specify it in the cw!!!! do whatever for ellie's white ass but for the love of gods and goddess BE AWARE OF READER AS A SPOT TO FILL, NOT AN OC!!!! idk how else to describe what i just said. but. it is said. so it. yeah. that whole delicate small petite thing kinda trickles into writing childlike readers too but. thats a whole nother discussion. no clue if i ever used that phrasing in the past tho i have no bold memories of my writings in detail.

i think people will listen to anybody but trans people who are actively calling it fetishization, like. all the mfs arguing with them say "trans and f💀ta aren't the same!" yeah. they aren't. cause one is like, a genuine, flesh and bone person.. with a whole story.. and feelings.. and experiences.. and one is.. fetishization. how many times do trans people have to repeat that? bet most of the people trying to argue against it aren't even trans.

the whole thing about authors "flooding" the tlou tag with palestine posts is also dumb as fuck. is scrolling a bit too taxing on your poor smut-guzzling thumbs?? ur scrolling over big booty fics, i think you can scroll a little further past those posts if you're really that much of a basement dwelling fuck that's sitting comfortably in their homes while a genocide is happening. out here sobbing cause people are spreading awareness. eat my bum bum booty. ++ also add-on cause we're holding writers accountable for ignoring a strike (different than not knowing at first) but there's also the artists!! they're there too.

anons r gonna come into my inbox abt all this but i'm not even gonna answer like, don't waste your time. im not reading all that. especially coming from an ANON 💀

me when

[dnpbeats]

Not to be like completely parasocial, and obviously I dont think we'll ever know nor do we need to know, but do you ever think about how dan didnt come out to his family till 2019? How that wasnt him only telling them hes gay, but telling them his roomate and best friend of 10 years is his long term partner? Coming out to your family is one thing, but telling your family that you have been with the love of your life for a decade is a whole nother. I get why dan wouldn't have talked about that aspect of it in BIG, but I do wonder how that went down. I feel like that would warrant way more further discussion post-coming out than the whole sexuality aspect of it.

no i totally agree, obviously it's none of our business but I'm also so curious to know how it went over! like im sure they had an inkling considering that dan went to the lesters leading up to christmas, for fathers day, etc. and also just the fact that d&p had been living together for so long and they presumably would've known dan had no relationships during that time. I doubt they were shocked but it still must've been an interesting conversation, espc considering dan specifically said in BIG how sucky it is when people are like "um yeah we knew" and I feel like that is something the older generation/family is more prone to 😭