#(which is why i'm not interested in getting super into the discourse - not worth making a federal case out of)

[kawaiimunism]

.

[valyrfia]

I have to way I'm a bit surprised by all the hate charles gets and all the support carlos gets

I used to think charles was more popular

I guess when it comes to Fandom he does have a bigger one, but I think general audiences seems to support carlos more

Maybe it's underdog narrative idk. Like charles is constantly called spoiled, brat, whiny etc whenever he says ANYTHING that isn't super nice, while carlos can bitch as much as he want and barely gets called out

Fandom is always a bubble. I'd say the top two drivers in fandom are probably Charles, Max, and Lando because they're the ones that are popular with younger audiences. It's certainly not true outside. Sure, there's an RPF to fandom, but I think it's also worth noting as well if you're in F1 fandom, you're probably a more avid viewer of the sport than most casual fans, so things like Max's current domination are made more interesting by knowing the ins and outs of his journey, and it's easier to reject anti-Charles viewpoints because when you watch a drive like Suzuka in real time and look at the data afterwards, you understand why the past four WDCs think him generational, and why Carlos is a GOOD driver, indisputably, but has a deficit of skill in comparison to Charles which is masked with luck.

Also ultimately, it's a difference in what type of PR sells to different generations as well. Charles has carefully cultivated quite a strong parasocial relationship with a very loyal fanbase mainly comprising of the countries of Italy and Monaco and younger fans–he does this through playing into inside jokes online with his fans, making us feel like we have a 'special' understanding with him by liking certain tweets, or using certain emojis, or using pictures for his instagram that sneakily reflect a piece of online discourse that happened on a race weekend. Carlos has gone for the more traditional media approach of an underdog narrative to gain sympathy, but he doesn't have the same legion of loyal fans as Charles and makes no effort to build the same fan backchannels that Charles does, which is why I think that Charles, ultimately, will win the PR game. The support of traditional media is fickle, but the lecfosi would follow Charles into hell if asked. It's why Charles knows ventures like LEC or his music will succeed, wheras can the same be said for Carlos outside of Spain?

[doberbutts]

Hi jaz! I know u dont post docking/cropping disc horse on ur blog so if ur ok with it i was hoping u'd be ok answering this privately. Im really really not looking for discourse i was just very curious on what your particular stance on docking/cropping was. There are like obviously advantages and disadvantages for both that I've seen on your blog (from various opinions) but I've only irl met dob owners who are VERY against docking and cropping. Sometimes i see like u reblogged a post of a puppy with docked bandaged ears and i was like "huh! Interesting!" So way less of like a trying to start a discourse thing and more of like. Do you prefer docked or not docked? Do u support docking for any specific reason or not, like i know it used to be so they wouldn't get grabbed or something like that. Sorry if this sounds weird or super blunt im autistic and really terrible at wording things gently,, i've just seen both sides talked about and was wondering like what u thought as a professional dog trainer who's opinion I trust. Its more about personal curiosity than any discourse attempt but also also if u aren't comfortable discussing it at all then no pressure!! Like i dont wanna make u discuss something ur like "damn this is gonna be triggering to talk about" i never want to do that to u.

Thank u for taking the time to read :)

I'm actually fine posting this one publicly, only because I've stated it several times before on this very blog:

I do not give a fuck what other people do with their dogs as long as it is legal within their country and the owner is doing their best to be compassionate and fair to their animals. That can be interpreted whatever way anyone wants it to be.

In other words, someone who makes the decision to have their dog's ears cropped under the care of a vet or who purchases a dog with already cropped ears? Who gives a shit. Not me. Someone who takes a pair of scissors to their dog's ears at home? That person is an asshole and I hate them.

Very few doberman breeders in this country will allow a puppy to go home without cropping the ears or docking the tail. I am not sure if that puppy's breeder counts among them, as I have very little interest in purchasing a dog from her and thus don't know much about that part of her program. The pedigrees are simply not what I feel holds the future of the breed in terms of efforts for longevity combined with working ability, so I simply look elsewhere.

It is worth mentioning that the two fully natural dogs I have had, with one still living, come from countries in which the practice is either banned or so heavily restricted it may as well be banned. If someone is serious about wanting a fully natural doberman, most people will need to import.

I know of less than 10 breeders within this country who would allow the same thing, and of them I think I would only purchase from maybe 2 of them, and *both* of those people would only sell a fully natural dog to me because they know who I am. Someone unknown to them is still getting a cropped and docked dog.

For my own dogs, I avoid all potentially painful procedures that are not medically necessary. This does include cropping and docking, both of which are surgeries and all surgeries do have at least some pain associated with them. However I also don't spay or neuter my dogs for the same reason. When it becomes medically necessary, I will consider surgery. Until then, I will not. Thankfully, I was able to find someone who was willing to play ball with that, and that is why I have had a couple natural dogs. My dobermans prior to that were not, because I was not able to find someone, because they simply didn't exist in this country and I was a poor college kid unable to import.

[snellyfish]

Why is Angie your favourite character?

This is really funny I just got off call with Glownary and was talking about how much I don't miss Danganronpa discourse. Anyway I hope someone finds a way to get mad at me in this post!

((Admittedly I'd probably actually place Korekiyo above her because he ACTUALLY has a relevant and specified canon story,,, but, y'kno))

Plain and simple, she just has a handful of design and character tropes I super adore in characters! As a base, I'm usually not super into,,, well-adjusted, well-liked , reasonable, and rational characters. LMAO. They're fine but I live for exaggeration. I LOVE when they're little freaks and not watered down at all for the viewers sake/comfort, I love when they (both the writers and the written) just keep twisting the knife for no good reason other than the bit despite how unconventional it may be.

One could argue that her not being watered down and being as shitty to the other players as she is is a trauma response, or just a mentally ill person being mentally ill. It can be neat to think of her that way sometimes! It's of my opinion that almost all Danganronpa characters are super open-ended lore/personality-wise and we as fans are just making up canon as we go because it's FUCKING FUN, and, as such, all the ways that Angie can be interpreted is very interesting to me-- EVEN if that's seen as "the irredeemable annoying religion-force-feeding zealot antagonist." Which is, of course, an objectively awful way to view anyone REGARDLESS of media illiteracy, but, you know! I like weird freaks so this "flaw" they see is simply more food for me. Yippee!!

Whether I think she's canonically A) genuinely malicious and sadistic, B) traumatized from an abusive religious sect, C) honestly caring about the other players, and/or D) none/all of the above? I'll never tell! Oops all bangers!

Tropes I enjoy, whether or not I found myself enjoying them BECAUSE of Angie herself;;

Religion, especially if it's horrifying and...bad! (Most of my own characters deal heavily with religion and religious trauma, I think it's cool to play with, whether or not it's a fantasy religion like I think Angie's is)

CULTS! Cult behavior! Let's live in a commune!! (GUYS I LOVE MIDSOMMAR)

Dark skin / light hair contrast color combo goes hard!!!

+ The pansexual flag palette is literally my favorite color combo ever!!!!

Manipulative little shits!!!!!

Small scary women!!!!!!

Islander stuff, it's very nostalgic to me and I just have a deep love and appreciation for the beach and ocean!!!!!!!

Piercings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cutesy sunshine character who could and would stab you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IDK HOW THIS WASN'T MY FIRST POINT!!!!!!!!!!

AND SHE'S JUST FUCKING SILLY!!!!!!!! SHE'S GENUINELY SO FUNNY AND CUTE ESPECIALLY IN HER INTERACTIONS WITH SHUICHI!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE HER SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was an IMMEDIATE favorite when I played V3 and when I found out that, like, everyone fucking HATED her and she's probably the least liked character in the entire class by the fans, my brain immediately went the contrarian route to find reasons to like her even MORE. I tend to do this a lot, but when it's a character I already enjoy, it's even worse, dude.

ummmmm obligatory Shinnaga mention sorry but I frequently tend to appreciate a character a lot more based on potential dynamics alone. Ships, romantic or not, have legitimately gotten me to enjoy characters I hated before, based on interesting interactions unique to them alone. So while Kiyo and Angie's (they're making out btw) ingame dynamic and dialogues aren't REALLY what my sick and twisted mind views them as, it's worth noting that my honest belief and interpretation of the two of them could even give me a sliver of that dynamic being possible .......... means she's fuckin slay ............ it means love wins..... It means Vote For Yonaga 2024

[texasthoughtsaboutnothing]

Weird Question.

What does a good Limbus Company Tier List look like?

[Warning: Long]

Gacha games are, at least in part, games about optimizing limited resources. There is a daily stamina limit, and weeklies and dailies that you need to feed that stamina into. In turn, you receive an amount of rewards that need to be spent to acquire and upgrade units. Limited rewards. And you need so many just to upgrade one unit. Decisions need to made, resources allocated. You only have so much, you want to get and use the right stuff without wasting anything on someone you find out is trash 90 levels in. Right?

This is an aspect of Gacha that is often missed in discourse about pngs of anime waifus: the emotional and intellectual labor of investing into a unit, the constant worrying about if you are making the most optimal choices, and the satisfaction of planning well. How a lot of attachment to a character can stem not from their design or personality but just because they're all you had that countered this boss node and lord almighty they clutched out the win with 0.1% HP after you dumped all you had into raising them. I could talk about it all day, it' super interesting to me. But to refocus, the major consequence of this kind of game design are tier lists.

Tier lists will tell you, at a glance, what units are worth investing in and what's worth avoiding. Good tier lists will provide comprehensive explanations and guides for each unit to contextualize their placement. Bad tier lists won't. They can be the combined knowledge of an entire community for a game, they can also be an edict laid down without compassion or transparency. Again, absolutely interesting. And again, to refocus, Limbus doesn't really have one.

Ok, there are Limbus tier lists. Esgoo has great tier lists on which IDs and EGO you should prioritize when considering Uptie 4. Obviously those are his opinion, all Tier Lists are at the end of the day, but he has a whole hour of discussion covering the why's and hows of each category. There is a Prydwen tier list for units, but its rarely shown to new players in any of the PM communities I'm in and is instead largely chastised to my knowledge. I've seen Sinner tier lists, meme tier lists, so on and so forth. None of these are the Tier List.

Maybe its just a sign of the times, but I remember when Gachas had the Tier List. Community vetted, moderator approved, above any all all others. Offered freely to newcomers and watched feverishly by veterans after a new unit is released. Nowadays I feel like I rarely see them.

Limbus doesn't have the tier list. You may wonder if it even needs one and I think you'd have a point. Boiling an entire ID's value to a letter grade might seem unnecessary, especially as Limbus is a bit different as a Gacha. IDs are easy to get, and though the level cap continues to raise (in a way many others find alarming and I'm inclined to agree) it's still less than a week's effort to max one out. I've played games where it took a month of currency to get a single Unit useable. THere just isn't as much drive to worry about leveling the wrong things, investing incorrectly because basically anything works.

However.

There still are obvious differences in the strengths of each character ID. True, most if not all are "useable", but you're probably better off leveling Pequod Yi Sang than Seven Yi Sang. You are definitely better off leveling Pequod Ishmael than Sloshing Ishmael. Its fair to want a quick cheat sheet to communicate those ideas at a glance, with explanations for those who want to delve a little deeper.

But I ask again, what would it even look like?

By what categories and traits do we subdivide these IDs? How can you convey that W Ryoshu is a self sufficient DPS monster tahat requires no synergy to be good while Maid Ryoshu has AoE built into her kit as well as strong poise gen that also does good damage at a glance? Put one in an AoE group and the other in DPS? Is that truly accurate when part of attack weight is that it's great against Abnormalities, the most common type of one-on-one encounter?

I ask the question "what would it look like" because I truly don't know. Limbus is a complicated, evolving game. I don't think that makes it special or standout in any particular way, but for an example it could be that Seven IDs are top tier next event because of temporary buffs and that throws a whole tier list on its head. I don't know of many Gacha that do stuff like that.

That's kinda the end of the thought. The best I can come up with is a list consisting of three tiers: "great, good with the right team comp, and don't. Further explanation available upon request." That's not very helpful, is it?

[faithandbuffy]

S-U-N for the fandom alphabet ask

Thank you!!

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)

My fave headcanon is that buffy and faith have a stronger connection than the show lets on, and that they share dreams on a semi frequent basis, also that faith felt it when buffy died

U - Three favorite characters from three different fandoms, and why they’re your favorites.

disregarding faith and buffy because duh, these are first three that popped into my head.

sameen shaw from person of interest because i find her personality so intriguing and i could think about how she "doesn't care" but really intensely cares for hours.

adora from she-ra. like? it's a kids cartoon but adora has so much depth and i'm a sucker for the weight-of-the-world hero archetype. the voice acting elevates her, she's the funniest character in the show, and her arc in s5 is so so good. also she has big sword big muscles.

amalia true from the nevers, which i think 3 people on the planet watched. she's from the future, she can see the future, she's hench as fuck, she has this intense sense of duty to something she doesn't even really understand. her dynamic with pretty much every character is super interesting, i love when she lets her guard down a little and i'm forever mad i don't live in a parallel universe where the nevers wasn't created by an asshole and ran for more than 12 episodes.

N - Name three things you wish you saw more of in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice).

okay i don't often give my opinions about the doctor who fandom in general because it tends to cause unwanted discourse but i will take the opportunity now bc i've thought about this stuff a lot.

first of all I wish there was more grace given to the show before a series has even aired. like now there's all these people getting annoyed about things in the new series that we haven't even seen yet, and it the episodes might be really good, we don't know! and i don't mean the bigots complaining about it being woke, i mean the actual fans! so many people were up in arms about david tennant coming back before the specials had even come out! trust the process and hope for the best!

second wish is that people realise multiple takes about a character or episode can coexist. the one that comes to mind is the whole human nature/family of blood debate. was the way martha was treated in these eps racist by the show runner and by the characters within the show? yes. was it also done intentionally to feed into her overall arc of recognising her own self worth and culminating in her leaving the doctor because she realises she should be treated better? also yes! just because one is true doesn't mean the other is not also a valid point and you don't always have to take a side as long as you recognise the racist implications and don't steamroll black fans when they rightfully critique these aspects. the same thing goes for pretty much anything to do with moffat as a show runner - you can recognise his misogynistic writing patterns without throwing out his whole era lol.

and third wish is that the fandom on the whole are more positive about the show in general. the whole reason i left twitter was because i think the majority of fans were getting bogged down in hating on various aspects of the show over and over while barely talking about bits they actually liked! i think valid criticism is one thing, but it gets to a point where you just wanna say "if you hate this aspect so much, why are you devoting so much time and brain power to hating on it!" the show has so much to love over its long history that it makes a far more enjoyable fandom experience to focus on the bits you love and just limit your engagement with the bits you don't like. fandom is supposed to be fun, you should not be getting this angry over 3 series of a 39 series show fr.

[allthinky]

My experience of Tumblr as an old person is that if I click in the "add tags" bubble during a convo, I'll see the tags that the prev has used. So then I get to decide which ones make sense to me.

I'm not sure why you reacted so strongly to that part of my response; I was suggesting that racism was a core subject of the discussion and should be tagged as such. That it's super important. So (a) I did not accuse you of thinking racism doesn't exist -- I mean really, show me where I did that?

And (b) it's actually incumbent on white people, I think, to confront racism in fandom. To recognize it as a key part of the discussion. Why would I have to *ask* you to use that tag? Yes, discourse is a thing, sure. But we have so much to learn about racism, and you keep misreading what I say to you about it. It's exhausting.

You think being accused of racism is like some kind of terrible indictment of your character. I would tell you that all of us have been raised in a stew of racism, that it's much more common than white folks tend to think, and that recognizing when someone is acting from implicit bias is important. White people often act like being accused of some racist act is worse than actually being racist.

But I'm only here because I think racism is informing the way a bunch of fans are reading the show. That's why I referenced the post from canon Izzy hours. And being racist, perpetuating racism, failing to understand how racist takes can harm people, that does real harm. Being accused of racism just hurts our feelings.

Glad you found the screenwriter's take interesting. I'd add alarming and depressing.

Thanks for implying to another fan that I'm not worth responding to. That felt great. It's really great to spend thousands of words to conclude that (a) Ed is violent and (b) Ed caused emotional harm to the crew when he tried to get himself killed.

Finally, the first mate is often not considered part of the "crew"; notice that Izzy refers to the "crew" when he talks to the captain(s). It's just a thing.

Hmm so it's been *checks watch* 5 days since I posted on the recent Izzy topic, and rather than respond to any points or questions I made, people involved have just blocked me. (Edit: with the obvious exception of the person noted below.)

So it's not discourse they want, really, it's just "I'm right and you're wrong", like I figured. I was hoping to be proven wrong.

@allthinky I don't know if you got my message on the actual post, but I saw where you replied to me a couple times. I'm not able to view the actual messages you left. If you were wanting a reply from me on anything, you can contact me here. If not... nevermind then.

[theminecraftbee]

i am on my knees and holding your hands in my own shaking ones and im trying to kiss ur knuckles but i cant see shit through the tears. im so happy. im so so happy im gonna be freaking out for literally months. you dont Know how happy i am theres literally no way to describe this happiness god. god. good god god god i love you i love your work. your thoughts. black box has my whole heart you don't get it im gonna cry. fuck

also i would love to know why its never getting finished if u dont mind talking abt it. which u dont cause u alluded to asking abt it in the tags but yk.

augdhsgdjdhr

i am so glad you are happy. honestly a bit worth it to post the scary unfinished thing to post for the fact that a few people are happy about it (and getting to hear a few friends ramble at me about it one last time, hahaha.)

as for why i won't finish it... the easy answer is "sometimes i just stall out on writing/doing something and often when that happens i cannot get the machine to start again". however there are also several like... concrete reasons. reasons i'm going to put under the cut with a warning of "there are a few fandom salt-y things that are happening here so if you don't want to see that, look away".

so the easiest to identify reason this won't be long? yeah it'd have to be WAY longer than black box. you saw how glacial the early pacing is, and there was still a lot i needed to get through. the length started getting daunting and like... that chilled me a bit on writing it, especially as i started getting distracted by other things.

the next reason is... hm. i don't know if i like how it plays next to the actual prison arc. something something, i played it dead straight and dark in ways that the actual prison arc did not... which is wild, given that the prison arc is one of the darkest arcs of the dsmp. but you know, somehow i did. and i knew i was doing it when i wrote it! i knew it would be way darker than the dsmp itself would actually play! but at the same time, the combination of "i am taking this really seriously" and "but the character who was actually in the prison is the villain of this fic" makes it all play... weirdly. it's weird. i have mixed emotions.

i have mixed emotions about some of my writing too that i won't get into just know "i like parts a lot i don't like parts a lot". i will say that i am still the only person who can write techno's chat even reading this now,

but also... honestly? the tommy stuff.

so i like c!tommy. i also like c!techno. i am aware black box is mostly popular with techno enjoyers. i know tommy is not currently well-liked by a lot of techno enjoyers. i know i couldn't write some of techno and tommy's relationship here - ESPECIALLY the argument they have when tommy leaves, in which both of them are meant to be wrong to some extent - without having a few people yell at me for it. and like... maybe no one would have yelled at me. lord knows that my fears of people yelling at me for daring to put character death in stuffed bird have not come to pass. but at the same time... the way the fandom acts around tommy and techno is exhausting.

and the only way to rectify that would have been to gut something kinda core to what i was writing, which is to say, that everyone's messy, fucked-up relationships as a result of what had happened were core and tommy and techno's was one of them. and that their relationship is messy. and neither of them are wrong, they're just messy, a thing that i don't trust people to like, get. so that... soured me on writing it, a little bit.

(god i wish c!techno wasn't the single biggest lynchpin of controversy on the dsmp. god i wish that my funny little blorbo was someone i could talk about in this fandom without it becoming a lightningrod of. whatever the hell techno discourse has become at this point. alas. ...you may be getting a sense for why i'm not super interested in the dsmp anymore, alongside the fact that i flat out do not believe them when they say they're going to do things anymore.)

uh, other than that, some of the other ones include "i disagree with what wilbur did with ghostbur and was going to just ignore that and am still just going to ignore that into the future, but that was important", "sbi in general is sure a thing", "i have some mixed emotions about the fact that parts of the ending of this universe arguably end up better than the dsmp does given the catalyst for it", and "canon after i started writing suggests ranboo should be somewhere but hell if i know where".

anyway that's all probably STILL secondary to "this thing would probably need at least another 30k words and that's probably what ultimately stalled me out in the end, glacial pacing and the needed length". but as you can see, there are also... other things.

ultimately i did end up taking your anon suggestion, i think sharing what i had was a good idea and i'm glad people liked it (and seem to like what i was planning on doing with it), even if i can't really bring myself to finish writing it anymore! so that's good.

(finally, disclaimer: please don't use this to bounce off and ask me any dsmp discourse-y questions, because i just won't answer them on this blog. lol. i just figured i could give this answer and explain a bit of where my dsmp stuff went.)

[leafweaverryn]

Hello, longtime listener, first time caller:

What's been your favourite part of writing A Heart Worth A Second Chance?

How do you motivate yourself when you're having a bad day?

OwO

the ending. like i legit had the ending written super far in advance. i also got a chance to slip in Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah", which was nice.

all joking aside, though, second chance was my first time really playing with and exploring felix as a character, and that is truthfully my favorite part of second chance. like i know i have a long way to go in getting used to him and really understanding him and all the nuances, but he's a comfortable headspace to be in, and a little relatable in some aspects, which is probably why i write him the way i do and why i enjoy writing for him. there's still a little anxiety behind every written word in my feluka fics, because of the discourse around felix and pv vs gdv, but no one's complained yet so i guess i'm doing a good job? the biggest downside is (and this is just my personal opinion and experience, i'm not salting and i think he's still a valid character) writing for adrien isn't as interesting for me anymore. at least by himself. throw in the chaos cousins/twins though... adrien is complex in his own ways, but felix's complexity is one that i personally enjoy exploring more. which is a problem, because i wrote myself into a corner with star pilot in making the sequel more about adrien... but that's a problem for future ryn

motivation is... challenging. i can't say that i have a fool-proof system in pulling myself out of bad days. i'm a stress eater, so first instinct on a bad day is meat, potatoes, and cheese, then something sweet. if i'm still crying, YouTube. Mythical Kitchen and Foods of History was the latest one that i watched to get a laugh. once that first giggle comes out though, it helps me feel better. when all else fails, shower.

when it comes to bad writing days, it's just a matter of flipping through the rolodex of wips and finding which one the brain wants to cling to. i have a couple Safety Wips that i scuttle to for emotional support, but also little things makes a difference. i noticed recently i've been writing more with my pink pen than any other color, so i've been using that exclusively at work until the magic, or ink whichever comes first, runs out.

so ummmmmmmm

i hope this answers your questions!

thank you for asking! <3

[vampish-glamour]

Tbh fandom on tumblr (or any social media) is toxic. It's not fun loving and memes anymore. It's become a shitshow of discourse. I like what I like, therefore I'll post about it, and I'm not explaining it to anyone. My interests might not be what others like even if it is in the same fandom. I don't follow fan blogs/tags anymore because of the toxicity. People go in search of things that upset them and then wonder why their online experience is awful, and that's where so much of the discourse comes from. Not to mention, most fan blogs aren't even centered around the fandom anymore. They post discourse (related to the fandom or real world stuff). I don't know many people that follow fan blogs for discourse. We want memes! We want discussions! That, and they crosstag like it's a bad habit; discourse in with fun stuff, then get all pissy when people say "hey, don't post discourse in the fan tags". It's their blog and they can do what they want, but the least they could do is make a separate blog for being a killjoy. Fiction isn't even worth arguing over because there are so many real world, actual important things to discuss, and not which fictional character is whatever identity. Long rant, but thanks for reading.

I agree. I’ve luckily not had much experience with super toxic sides of fandoms. Considering the main stuff I was involved in was things relating to Disney and musical theatre, the worst it got was people fetishizing gay men and making everything about “The Gay”. And theatre kids. Then I got into the good omens fandom which made me realize that the internet really loves making a big deal of gender and it drove me nuts to be constantly seeing blatant sexism and ignoring gender non conformity, so now I’ve stepped away from being involved in fandom 😂 I float around but I don’t really get too involved because it’s just a shitshow and after looking at other fandoms as well I can tell just how much it revolves around “wokeness” for lack of better word.

There was also the sims community which I thought about participating in but it’s so fucking cliquey. They claim it’s not but it is. And they tend to be very political.

That’s been my own experience, but I’ve heard much worse as far as discourse and cliques go. I’ve definitely seen the “it’s my blog I’ll do what I want!!” Thing, which I get, but at least don’t cross tag lol. There’s a reason I keep my pissy posts about the good omens fandom out of the good omens tags and that’s because I know people don’t want to see it. (And because I don’t want to be attacked for being a “exorsexist” or whatever)

But yeah I feel like I’ve been pretty lucky so far with not encountering the real toxic stuff, and maybe that’s because of the type of fandoms I usually gravitate towards. It just really sucks that fandom has gone so downhill when it’s supposed to be a place for people to discuss their interests when they have nobody else to discuss them with.

[longlivefeedback]

hey! so, i'm sure this is something that's been discussed, but i can't find any discourse on your blog. i'm a fic writer and NOTHING annoys me more than the "don't say anything negative" attitude toward fanfiction. if someone leaves a comment that says "i loved your fic but i'm curious as to why character didn't do [x] since it seems a little inconsistent..." or "loved it! just wanted to point out a couple small inaccuracies that most people won't notice but since i work in this field..." (1/?)

it shows me that the commentor was paying attention and thinking about my writing, and isn’t that the ENTIRE point of posting your writing online? i’ve run across quite a few writers who will criticise any criticism or less-than-effusive comments, and it just really, really annoys me. the main reason i think is bc i legitimately LOVE fanfiction—it’s my preferred thing to write/read over original fiction bc it allows me to focus on just exploring the characters since people are already(2/?)

familiar with them/the canon verse. it’s why i hate that it isn’t taken as seriously as original fic, and i really think this culture of “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is one of the reasons it just isn’t taken seriously. ofc, not saying that you should just point out all the flaws, but some polite, helpful concrit or probing questions in addition to praise?? makes me really happy tbh. idk maybe i just take it too seriously but (¾)

it REALLY bothers me, and so i wanted to read some debate on this matter from both sides — not just writers, not just readers. this my extremely long-winded way of asking: do you guys have any posts like this?? (4/4)

LLF response: Hi Anon! We do have some posts about commenting culture and a brief guide to supporting authors, as well as reblogs on a guide to reviews and an overview of fandom commenting. Assuming you’ve looked through those posts, the reason why you cannot find anything that addresses your specific concern (i.e. questions in comments bringing up inconsistencies or trying to understand why a character appears to be acting OOC) is probably because LLF has been primarily concerned with broad structural changes and feedback initiatives thus far and the topic you raise, while valid and important to feedback culture, is a bit too nuanced for the current focus of this blog.That being said, I think that your ask brings up some interesting assumptions and perceptions that are critical for fandom health and which I can give my personal opinion on under the jump.

Full disclaimer, the following is my (mod dragonling’s) personal opinion and interpretation of the ask.

1. i’m a fic writer and NOTHING annoys me more than the “don’t say anything negative” attitude toward fanfiction.

This to me is indicative of differing expectations for fandom. Let’s say that instead of fic writing, we’re all chefs (or people who make food) here. We each make a dish and now we want to share it with the world. Do you (A) take it to your friend’s house where they are holding a potluck celebration; (B) set up a stall at the state fair; or © enter it into a cooking/baking competition ala Chopped where 5 star judges and food critics will sample your food? Depending on where you take you food, you would expect very different reactions.

Generally speaking, you would probably want your friends at the potluck to thank you for bringing something and compliment you for how delicious your dish is. If you were still fine tuning your recipe, you could let them know and maybe they would be able to say one or two things they liked or didn’t like about it which you would file away for the evening, to be looked at for the next time you made something.

However, if you were at a state fair, even getting your dish looked at by the crowds of people milling around would be an achievement. If someone bought some of your food, that would be fantastic! If they bought it, took a bite, and then told you how tasty it was, even better! Those people that bought your food, went away, and then came back to tell you how much they enjoyed it or came back to buy some more and brought all their friends with them are heaven sent angels. You probably wouldn’t expect anyone to say anything negative about your food because even if you were still fine tuning the recipe, a state fair is neither the time or place where any sort of meaningful culinary discussion can really take place on a consistent basis.

The situation would be different if you were at a cooking competition. There, you would expect these food experts to pick apart your food. Maybe not steamroll and chew you out ala Gordon Ramsey, but even then if that’s what you were expecting and the kind of feedback you respond best to, then sign up for a competition he is judging at. Perhaps you don’t want to just be yelled at, but would actually like to be coached, then maybe enter a competition with more of a mentoring element versus cutthroat competition.

This all really boils down to knowing who your audience is and your expectations for them. I would say that posting to ao3 is closest to the state fair, and is why the “don’t say anything negative” attitude is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged. The fact that this annoys you indicates that there is some disconnect between what you really want and where you’re going in order to get it. I think that we can all agree that going to the state fair and expecting Gordon Ramsey to show up and tell you why your dish sucks is just…not going to happen. Even more, it’s something that shouldn’t happen. What if you were at the state fair to raise money for charity? No well meaning person is going to tell you that your food sucks and that you should do better and if they do, they don’t mean you well.

So, rather than get hung up on the “don’t say anything negative” attitude in fandom (which, I may add, is there and has been cultivated for a reason), take another look at your audience and your expectations. If you want criticism that is helpful and of good quality, go to an editor or join a writing group. If you want to give criticism, find someone to beta for where you can cultivate a relationship that is mutually beneficial. Don’t be a Gordon Ramsey walking around at the charity fair of home baked goods giving tips to the local families trying to raise funds to repair their schools. Be conscious of the fact that people write for different reasons, and that while some may be okay with great advice being shouted at them, for others, it is a nightmare. Be kind and don’t show up at the wrong party.

2. “i loved your fic but i’m curious as to why character didn’t do [x] since it seems a little inconsistent…” or “loved it! just wanted to point out a couple small inaccuracies that most people won’t notice but since i work in this field…”

I understand where you’re coming from, Anon, and the two examples you mentioned evoke an important point of why it is so difficult to give criticism online. Your questions attempt to illustrate how one might leave a comment that shows that the reader was paying attention and thinking about your writing, and from your ask, I can only assume that you would be thrilled to personally receive either of those comments. To assume that others would be similarly thrilled, however, is fallacious and a dangerous assumption. What works for you, may be hurtful to others. You pointing out “a couple [of] small inaccuracies” may be you being genuinely helpful, but to the author, it may come off as a reader assuming that they didn’t do their research, a reader being a know-it-all, or a reader missing the forest for the trees, especially if this is your one and only comment in a long multi-chaptered work.

Of course, things get even more nuanced when we consider context. Your comment about inaccuracies may be the best thing ever if the author specifically asked for guidance on this matter, or if you have a long standing relationship with this author and somehow commenting in ao3 is the way you beta for each other, or maybe this small inaccuracy is actually a big inaccuracy and you’re just trying to be super tactful about it… I could go on an on and on about it, but how you say things is often just as important as what you say, and in writing, where we do not have the benefit of verbal and visual cues, expressing what you mean becomes even more complicated.

Which is another reason why “don’t say anything negative” is the default. It’s harder to ruin someone’s day with only positive statements, especially when you don’t have the time or platform to really explain yourself and have a meaningful conversation with the author. This Anon’s view on concrit is worth pondering. If you don’t understand or agree with this sentiment, then the conversation we should be having is not “why doesn’t anyone leave concrit” but rather “what is concrit?” 

3. i’ve run across quite a few writers who will criticise any criticism or less-than-effusive comments, and it just really, really annoys me.

Going back to expectations and audiences; remember which party you’re going to. Also, what may seem like just a less-than-effusive comment to you, an outsider who stumbled upon this one comment thread, may actually be a long antagonistic war of words between author and commenter spanning many years, fandoms, and fics. I don’t know. It could happen. Maybe you just have a higher tolerance of trolls and criticism than the rest of us.

It’s certainly happened to me and Rose here on the LLF blog. Either we read the same ask differently or just have different reactions and ways of responding to things that tick us off. Even if we have a shared goal and have known each other for awhile, we’re both different people. It’s not reasonable for me to try to change Rose’s responses to match my own exactly. Just because you care about fanfiction so much doesn’t mean that everyone else does or should as well. If this is something that really truly annoys you and you are trying to see both sides of this issue, I think that you’re on the right track and want to encourage you to keep learning and thinking about it.

4. it isn’t taken as seriously as original fic, i really think this culture of “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is one of the reasons it just isn’t taken seriously.

I am not a literary expert, and cannot really opine on how fanfiction is viewed by traditional literature or whether a fantasy AU is better/worse than a published fantasy book or how they relate to the writings of Homer. I also am not sure what you mean by fanfiction not being taken “as seriously as original fic.” Certainly you take it seriously. I take it seriously enough to spend my free time on it, and I take fandom seriously enough that I am spending time I could be using to write fanfiction to help run this blog. If you mean that publishing houses will not pay any attention to a fanfiction story, I would agree because why would they? Fanfiction is, by definition, derived from original fiction. Publishing houses are after new and original content because copyright is a real thing.

Even then, let’s look at Fifty Shades of Grey. It’s Twilight fan fiction. Is it taken more seriously than Twilight? Why or why not? How does it compare to Harry Potter, or Pride or Prejudice? Reading and writing are such personal experiences that I hesitate to say that one piece of writing is inherently better than the other. Hence, I do not think that fan fiction’s audience who “don’t engage unless you only have good things to say” is a problem. To me, that’s like saying “anime isn’t as good as non-anime cartoons because people who watch anime don’t speak English.”

5. not saying that you should just point out all the flaws, but some polite, helpful concrit or probing questions in addition to praise…

Yes, agreed; and if this is what the author has asked for, please go ahead! However, please also remember that not everyone knows how to ask probing questions, give helpful concrit, or even be polite. Sometimes, they aren’t even trying to be rude. It just comes off as such. Maybe the commenter is having a bad day and can’t word right. Maybe the author is having a bad day and can’t read anything without their own personal negative bias clouding their perceptions.

It’s one of the things that we are trying to address at LLF so that these barriers are lower. It’s one of the reasons why some things (native comment templates) just will not work for AO3, because tone is hard to convey, nevermind that your audience probably numbers in the millions, each with their own personal biases and understanding of language. We know that even with giving kudos, people mean different things. Think about how difficult it is to convey sarcasm in writing. AO3 already receives flack for their kudos message, which is the way it is because can you come up with something better that will not tick off anyone? Maybe people want to be polite, maybe they want to be helpful, maybe they just don’t know how. We’re trying to change that and trying to give people the tools to help them comment: LLF Comment Builder, LLF Comment Project, in-line commenting (these tools are mostly focused on how to give positive comments because from the feedback we’ve gotten, people have a hard enough time doing that as is.)

But hey, if you want something for concrit or how to ask probing questions, don’t wait for us. Look up a good guide and reblog it. Encourage your followers to ask you questions about your writing. Write your own guide to commenting. Go. Be the change you want to see.

6. do you guys have any posts like this

So, after all that, LLF may not be the blog for you if you are interested in hearing as many opinions as possible about this topic. However, I would highly encourage you to check out @ao3commentoftheday, which has already hosted quite a few asks about this:

sometimes-i-dont-comment-because-im-a

actually-i-have-a-question-about-commenting

do-writers-like-constructive-criticism-in-reviews

about-the-leaving-only-glowing-praise-comments

about-concrit-i-dont-explicitly-discourage-it

its-not-about-wanting-concrit-its-about-wanting

1-with-concrit-i-think-the-question-is-not

Don’t forget to check the notes on those threads!