#(also. eddie would hate billy whether he knows max or not)

[hawkyon-days]

So, so tired of fics where Max realises Neil abuses Billy and immediately forgives him everything he has ever done to her, bc like-

[stobinesque]

The last post I reblogged has me thinking about how Lucas is treated by his friends/the wider UD gang in-universe/from a more Watsonian perspective. Because here are the facts:

Lucas has spent most of his childhood being explicitly/overtly bullied for his race [being called "Midnight" by their season 1 bullies]¹

At the beginning of Season 2, Mike clearly assumes that Lucas agreed to go as Winston for no other reason than both of them being black. But when called on this, Mike cannot bring himself to admit that's what he was thinking. (He also does not apologize to Lucas.)

Until Billy attacks him, Lucas doesn't really know why Max is trying to avoid being seen with him when Billy picks her up/at her house, but having been on the receiving end of "my family is racist so I can't be seen with you," whether or not you actively know the reason someone is trying to hide you from another person, it feels alienating. Also, he absolutely figures it out in hindsight.

But since at first he doesn't know that Billy inexplicably and aggressively hates him/doesn't want him interacting with Max, from Lucas' perspective he gets attacked by a white boy 4-5 years his senior and almost twice his size out of literally nowhere. Said boy explicitly declares to him "You're dead, Sinclair."²

Lucas, upon entering high school, decides that he wants to acquire enough social pressure to protect him and his friends from the bullying they had to deal with throughout middle school. Neither Mike nor Dustin seem willing/able to understand why he might be interested in that protection.

There are a couple different ways to interpret Lucas (and Patrick)³ choosing to stay with Jason and Andy, but I think it's reasonable to assume that Lucas would be able to recognize a mob/witch hunt forming, and I also think it is reasonable to assume that Lucas knows that mobs tend to target the most vulnerable members of a population, and that he himself both as a black kid and a member of Hellfire is at risk.

Nancy knows for a fact that Jason was at the army surplus store in search of a gun, and while it is implied that she informs the group of this, they seem not to take that into any consideration when planning because

Taken altogether, this paints a picture that in-universe, all of Lucas' friends should be intimately aware that he has experienced overt racism for his entire life. But, the Halloween costume argument also suggests that even though they're all aware of said racism, none of the white members of the group really feel comfortable talking about it. Lucas does explicitly call Mike out on thinking that he would be Winston (or that Mike can't be) "because he's black," and Mike flat out lies to his face. If this is one of the first times Lucas has confronted one of the Party members about their own implicit racism, I think it would be reasonable for him to walk away from that exchange deciding that race isn't something he can have honest conversations with his friends about.

We also never see Billy attacking Lucas addressed on-screen after it happens. Which means we never get to see anyone check-in with Lucas about what happened, or see him process what happened.

So come season 4 Lucas has great reason both to want more social capital/protection and to feel uncomfortable explicitly talking to his friends about why that might be. (Especially with the added baggage of Billy having just been killed, which assuredly inspired a lot of complicated feelings for Lucas, especially because of how much his death impacted Max.) Instead, he makes one simple request of his friends (who he both wants at his game and still wants to play D&D with them): get Eddie to reschedule the game. And, sure, it's Eddie's fault that the game doesn't get rescheduled. But it is absolutely on Mike and Dustin that they didn't choose to skip (which honestly probably would have forced Eddie to reschedule anyway??).

So for the most important game of the season, Lucas winds up without his friends or his sister there to watch him make the winning shot, and he misses out on the D&D game that he wanted to play with his friends. It's entirely possible that Lucas still would have decided to go to the afterparty even if Mike and Dustin had come to the game. But I think it's reasonably likely that he'd have gone to celebrate separately with them! Or at least would have left the party early, rather than getting so drunk he pukes the next morning. So when Jason riles the whole team into becoming a mob out for blood, Lucas ends up stuck between a rock and a hard place. He can't really say or do anything to stop Jason that doesn't also put a target on his back. Sticking with him is the best way to 1) ensure his own physical safety and 2) have any hope of protecting Eddie/his friends.

And then Lucas risks his life to lead Jason & co. off Eddie's scent and bikes eight miles to come warn Dustin that he's in danger. He actually explicitly says that Dustin is in terrible danger. Lucas (and, honestly, all of the Party--except arguably Will) at this point is intimately aware of the fact that a white boy fueled by rage can been homicidally dangerous. So the fact that even after knowing for a fact that Jason has acquired a gun, the whole team send Lucas, Erica and Max to the Creel house without weapons, protection, or any sort of plan as to how to deal with Jason & co. if they turn up is not only baffling, but honestly feels downright callous.

From a purely Watsonian perspective, Lucas has every right and reason to be absolutely livid with his friends. Their consistent inability to recognize or acknowledge the racism Lucas experiences directly results in Lucas and his sister being attacked and nearly killed--and not even by the supernatural bad guy.

¹The show never returns to this, but to me it is broadly illustrative of the racial climate in Hawkins

²Please do not waste your breath trying to argue with me that Billy "wasn't really trying to kill him." I honestly don't care either way. He threatened to kill a 13-year-old boy whose only "crime" was being black. There is no other explanation for Billy's treatment of Lucas that makes sense, since he explicitly targets him, and not Dustin or Mike. Regardless of whether or not Billy had genuine homicidal intent, Lucas had no reason to think otherwise in that moment. I have no interest in arguing this point with anyone.

³Patrick is another excellent example of the show being unable to meaningfully reckon with with its racial implications, but that's its own post.

[disdaidal]

Giving you a character: Billy, of course. :p

Of course, Billy Hargrove was to be expected :D

How I feel about this character: I have strong and complicated feelings about this character. He's a bad boy, the kind of guy I would have absolutely hated in high school but also the kinda guy who would not be boring at least. :D He's loud and obnoxious and parties like an animal, but his taste in music is impeccable (I love rock and metal and music from the 80's and I will not take criticism for that). He's got pretty eyes (that curly mullet is... well, let's say, H&M did it better <3), a nice body and a great fashion sense (denim-on-denim and leather jackets ftw) and he drives a Chevrolet Camaro from '79 like a madman. He can also be pretty funny when he wants to be, ridiculous even. So, what's not to like really? :P

All the people I ship romantically with this character: I mostly ship him with Steve, Eddie and Argyle (the last two are totally crack and fanon but who gives). I think Billy and Heather could've been hot, more than friends, maybe even friends-with-benefits if not an actual couple. Just sayin'. I've seen some great headcanons, maybe even fanart of Billy and Chrissy and I think, you know, the princess and metalhead setting could've worked with them, too.

As for my most 'problematic' Billy ship, I actually really like Billy and Hopper. There's this whole daddy kink thing involved I suppose. Lowkey my favorite crackship Ted and Billy as well. :P I'm also very supportive of Billy and El in general, I think the actors had great chemistry in s3 and I can see why some ship them, so I suppose I lowkey ship them (in spirit), too.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: Though I ship Billy and Heather romantically, I also love seeing them as 'gay besties', supporting each other and protecting each other. It's one of my favorite headcanons in this fandom. Same goes for Chrissy I suppose, if not romantically involved.

Though Billy had his issues with Max, maybe even than beyond just normal 'sibling-ship', I still enjoyed their relationship a lot. It's clear that they spent a lot of time together (whether they actually hated it or not), and that they deeply cared for each other.

My unpopular opinion about this character: The majority of the fandom seems to think (or at least acts like) Billy is the worst character in the show and at least used to actively bully and harass Billy fans and shippers (his actor got his fair share of that also I hear). Though Billy was definitely not the nicest character or even particularly 'goody-good' (he was a bully and quite shitty at times actually), acting like he's worse than Dr. Brenner, for example, is bullshit. We clearly did not watch the same show.

Also, for other Billy fans... He might be your baby, but he's not an actual baby. He's not really your son or child and you don't need to 'protect' him from the haters who can't separate fiction from reality (just block them) or tw/anti Karen or any other character you don't like in favor of Billy (you're no better). Billy can also be shipped with characters other than Steve (male or female, older and younger, even self-inserts) and just because you don't like it, doesn't make the ship automatically 'problematic'. It just means there are people out there who like different things than you and you need to learn to suck it up and look away. It's for the best.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon. That Billy wouldn't have faced such gruesome death. He wasn't a good guy, but he didn't deserve to die, especially so young. I also wish we could've seen what really happened between him and Max between seasons 2 & 3 because clearly their relationship improved there. Such wasted potential.

[daisiesflower]

So some thoughts, hopes, theories for stranger things five. Not gonna tag this spoilers cause like it’s all coming from my own brain none of this is leaks or anything

I know the actor has claimed he isn’t but I wish Argyle would be coming back. And for more than like a guest character the way Suzy is, he was literally a main character of season 4 and if Robin could join the team permanently why not him

On that note I want him and Steve to be besties. I want Steve to have healthy male friendships of his own age but also it would be soooo funny cause Jonathan clearly still has petty beef with Steve after all this time but Steve’s totally moved on and considers Jonathan a friend and he would get along so well with Argyle, I think it would be hilarious because Jonathan would be fuming like he’s bitched to Argyle so much about this guy and Argyle is his best friend and now him and Steve are hitting it off. But he knows he doesn’t have any actual valid reason to be mad so he’s just really bitchy about it

Literally anything about Steve and Robin’s home lives. Literally anything. I am begging for scraps here.

I mean we all know Holly Wheeler’s going to go missing and play some important role in the plot. Is that even a question anymore. This one has always been a matter of when not if

I think there’ll be an episode of the Upside Down invading Hawkins using Vecna’s victims. Like I think it’ll be an episode dedicated to zombie flicks as characters come face to face with corpses of people who had major impacts on them and have to kill them all over again to protect Hawkins. I don’t think that’ll be part of the climax though I think it’ll be like mid-season to ramp up the stakes. Think that’s where we’ll get an Eddie cameo, think we’ll see Barb, we’ll see Billy, we’ll see Chrissy, Fred, Patrick, maaaybe Jason. The real question mark is Bob - he didn’t die in the Upside Down, his body was either completely eaten or it was moved by humans and buried so question mark whether Vecna has any control over him

As far as stancy vs jancy goes I want Nancy to end up single, with acknowledgments that none of them are in a place in their lives to be able to have relationships with each other for various reasons and an emphasis on stoncy moving on and coming together as friends. Most likely though I think jancy will end up together

Duffer bros are for sure going to kill someone off. Ideally for me it would be Jonathan (and I do have well thought out reasons if anyone wants them) but I don’t trust them to do that. Think it’s more likely to be Steve so that Nancy can be with Jonathan without guilt or whatever (would hate that)

I think the Duffer bros are invested in the romances they set up at the beginning of the show. The show started with mileven, jopper, and jancy so I think that’s how they’ll end it. Jancy I think is the most at risk due to them being very aware that Steve is more well-liked than Jonathan (by both general audience and themselves)

I so think Robin will be Will’s gay mentor. Cannot emphasize enough how much I Do Not Want This

I want Kali back. I know it’s not gonna happen. In my rewrite of Season 4 she joins the team permanently so she’s be there in Season 5. But unfortunately the Season 4 rewrite only exists in my head

I would love to see a Joyce-Robin team up. They struggle with so many of the same issues that I would love to see them find strength in each other. Plus Robin could use an adult figure in her life since she apparently doesn’t have parents (sarcasm). I feel like maybe I saw a pic of Maya and Winona filming so this could become a reality but it could also be my hopeful subconscious making shit up

I want Murray and Erica in the same grouping for an extended period of time. With Lucas there because I don’t want Murray alone with her (yikes) and also for the good good Sinclair sibling interactions. Max and Robin can pop in occasionally. I just want like sixteen straight hours of this man being bullied by teen and preteen girls. Would love to see a moment of Sinclair bickering and then Murray steps in and it becomes “oh hell no, no one gets to bully my sibling except me”

I want the season to start with a grouping of Max, Steve, and El. I love the Steve-Max relationship (he’s so older brother coded to her) and I feel like we’ve gotten little hints that Steve and El are close, that he considers her one of his little nuggets but we’ve never actually seen that

On that note I think it’d be funny if we make it through five straight seasons without Will and Steve interacting once

I want Nancy and Mike to find out about their mom nearly hooking up with Billy. It feels so weird and random to include as a plot point if nothing ever comes of it and neither of her kids ever find out. I think it could work for Nancy to find out in order to help her maybe make a decision about her future and her relationships, to really cement what she’s known all along which is that she doesn’t want to end up like her parents. I think for Mike it would affect his friendship with Max, I think he wouldn’t know how to behave about it and it would make thinks difficult between them for a bit

On a similar note I want Mike to have some time away from Will and El. Spend some time with Lucas and Max. He has other relationships that also impact his life besides just those two (even if they are arguably the most important)

I don’t think it really matters what grouping Dustin ends up in since he’ll be awesome no matter what. But since they’re obviously going to make the Wheelers more important, I want sixteen straight hours of him bullying Ted Wheeler

Actually since I also want Dustin and Erica being besties, let’s make that the foursome of the season. Dustin, Erica, Murray, and Ted Wheeler. Just Dustin and Erica bullying these middle aged men who also hate each other - Ted regularly calls Murray a communist and a kook (despite literal proof of other dimensions being right in front of him) and Murray hates him for voting for Reagan

I think that there will be like no reference to Russians. Firstly because this season is gonna be very centralized in Hawkins, I don’t see any plot points that aren’t about Hawkins’ direct focus happening. But also because the Duffers are quite good at listening to audience critiques and adjusting in ways that give the audience what they want without sacrificing their story. And last season they know damn well that the Russia plotline was the least favorite of anyone and that in Season 3 the only reason it was a favorite was due to the grouping of characters

I think Dustin’s plot and character specifically will be inspired by Eddie’s death in the way Nancy’s was by Barb. I wish with all of my being that this would be Mike’s story since he makes the most sense to idolize and emulate Eddie but alas I doubt that will happen. One day I’ll write a post about this. That day is not today

On the one hand I don’t trust them not to kill Steve. On the other hand, killing Steve means he can’t be used in any kind of spin-off…much to consider

I highly doubt byler will happen. I think it’s more likely the season ends for Will the same way Season 4 ended for Robin. I think he’ll spend the season learning to move on from Mike, then in like the second to last scene of the show will meet and bond with some random guy also implied to be gay with the clear subtext that this is Will’s future boyfriend

I want Tommy H and Carol back. I miss them

[crimsoncosmic]

i haven’t seen your reason on why eddie is hated by the fandom.

but i’ve seen it more on how his character was played. while no hate for the actor and how he played addie, the character himself was just rather difficult to watch.

i can’t give you quite a direct answer without explaining it in a way that only my friends can understand, all i can say was that it was that he was an adult still in high school. nothing wrong there but his character itself was willing to mock sports in a cafeteria. in high school. a high school with teenagers where sports was mostly important

and i myself can’t really like the fact the eddie decided to hold a dnd campaign on the one day lucas was to play and expecting his friends to be there. except lucas’ wanted to play the campaign and even brought in his little sister as a replacement i just won’t ever understand that part.

i can’t say much more without bothering you but these are all spoilers that i’ve read since st fans like to post their thoughts ght here. but also because i stopped watching after season three. mostly because i’m delusional enough to say that if billy never died then max wouldn’t have carried this burden where she’s targeted by vecna.

It’s fine, you don’t have to really worry about bothering me. But, yes I can assure you that part of the reason people suddenly hated Eddie was because they thought the fanbase was weird. Now, it’s mostly been on things like YouTube and Tiktok more than Tumblr, but yeah, it was a reason that people hated him.

And, regarding the cafeteria scene, I had interpreted it as he wasn’t necessarily mocking basketball or sports, but he was rather mocking how unfair it was that the Hellfire Club was considered “weird” or “dangerous” or “the freaks” for liking to play Dungeons and Dragons while being interested in things like sports or parties or something was viewed as normal and socially acceptable.

And with the campaign thing, it wasn’t really his intention to plan it on the exact same time at the game, in fact, he wasn’t really unaware of it being championship game, he had the campaign planned out for a while. And, also most of the basketball games, Lucas sat on the bench, so they didn’t really know for sure whether he’d end up playing or not. Also, Mike and Dustin were the ones who got Erica to play for him, since Eddie suggested that if Lucas can’t play, than somebody would just have to sub for him during the campaign.

Although, I feel like some of these scenarios depend on the perspective you look at it from and the interpretation. But, this was just my interpretation of them, but you are entitled to your own opinion.

[himynameis4]

Okay i just. I can’t wait to see what yoy come up with I just really need to talk about my pjo headcanons. I—like, i’m so glad that pjogate is a thing now, but i don’t think you understand, this au has been living rent-free in my head for a WHILE. I have THOUGHTS, and seeing as i’ve seen how you dive into aus with ur atlagate, i just… i’m making your problem, basically. Whether or not anybody actually reads this, idk, but yeah.

Setting this au in a parallel universe, where none of the pjo characters exist but most of the lore/worldbuilding is similar, though i’m considering moving the timing of the Big Three Pact not to have kids, because I like the fact that Hades was one of the only one to never break the oath, and for this to take place in the 80s the oath has to take place later (thinking… “end” of Vietnam war, rather than the end of WWII, so 1973–2 years after Will & El were born).

I have Things to say about Camp Jupiter and legacies and families, but first, I wanna go through my parents for everyone really quick & then I’ll backtrack to give more backstory/plot for the au idea lurking in my head.

Dustin: Hephaestus

Billy, Steve, AND Max: Aphrodite

Robin: Hermes

Lucas: Apollo

Erica: Hermes

Argyle: Demeter

Eddie: Dionysus

Mike: Calliope*

Will: Hades*

El: Hades*

Henry: Arachne*

Jason, Chrissy, Patrick, Jonathan, Nancy, Joyce, Hopper, Troy, James, Lonnie, Ted, Karen, Holly: Roman Legacies*

Murray: Faun

*= will elaborate later

Dustin I think is a no-brainer. Ik ppl were talking about Aphrodite Lucas & Ares Max, Ares Max & Aphrodite Lucas, etc, but here’s the thing: Aphrodite suits Billy, Steve, and Max so perfectly. Shows the darker side of Aphrodite/Aphrodite’s power through Billy (Aphrodite is hardly harmless), Billy def has charmspeak tho lol. Steve is 100% Aphrodite—Imma be honest I was tempted with Poseidon, but even the swim captain bit works because Steve’s mom rose from the sea, so there’s still that connection. Max is like… challenging Aphrodite stereotypes while still enjoying “girlie” things like clothes & magazines (& continuing the Aphrodite tradition of Getting Bitches; see: Lucas & Dustin & El, though she’s only in an active relationship with two of those). Like Lucas, Max can be both. & we get the sibling dynamic between Max & Billy AND Max & Steve, which is perfection imo. Robin’s languages make her SUCH a good fit for Hermes. Plus, she has the chaotic energy necessary. Lucas is Apollo. His basketball skill which is referenced in PJO as an “apollo kid” thing, his SLINGSHOT?!?!?! Not to mention his singing (🎶 turn around… 🎶). Also, Lucas is LITERALLY sunshine, but more importantly, he’s Max’s LIGHT. Plus, Apollo is the god of truth, & we all saw how upset Lucas was at El in season one for lying. Erica, however, is Hermes. Capitalism? That entreprenerual spirit has Hermes written all over it. Here’s the thing. I love the Sinclairs and their marriage. They are one of the ONLY healthy marriages on the show, and I refuse to meddle with that. So, here’s how it went: Apollo had a threesome with the Sinclair parents, from which Lucas resulted. Hermes heard Apollo talking about how cool this couple was, decided he had to meet them, and fell into a whirlwind romance himself. Erica was born. Kiddos are half siblings in different cabins at camp who share 2/3 parents, with a healthy outlook on relationships, communication within relationships, and polyamory. (This will come in handy for Lucas, once his girlfriend gets a girlfriend). Argyle is Demeter, and also the camp weed provider. ‘Nough said, I think? Eddie is Dionysus. The way he channels dramatics into his DMing is so Dionysus-coded. We know he enjoys alcohol when stressed, which his father can relate too, I’m sure. Eddie would be a good Hermes (lockpick, hotwiring the car, hating that he has this skill bc of his criminal father the way Luke Castellan hates having an innate ability to pick locks in the demigod diaries), a good Apollo (his music, Corroded Coffin, etc), but Dionysus ultimately matches his energy best I feel.

This is where it gets interesting. Ik I listed Mike’s before El & Will, but Mike’s is ultimately more complicated than El & Will’s explanations, so I’m going to get to him after.

Will is Hades. “Zombie Boy”? Will is literally perfect for Hades, & it fits with his being ostracized within the community. Will’s connection to the Upsidedown/monsters is a lot like Nico’s ability to sense death. I know Will’s powers aren’t confirmed-confirmed, but the way Will keeps having flashes to the Upsidedown mirror’s Hazel Levesque’s flashbacks incredibly well. Will has the ability to communicate with/sense things that other people don’t understand, gives cryptic warnings based on his powers, etc. Also, I love the way Will parallels both Nico and Hazel, Nico’s struggles with his sexuality & attachment to a geeky game deemed “immature,” Hazel’s love of art & her childhood friend, BOTH of their willingness to sacrifice themselves for the people they love… these are also parallels I lean into further with my outline for some of his plot/backstory that makes me So Happy i can’t. But imma elaborate on that later lol.

El is also Hades. El… idk how many of you read Trials of Apollo, but El is a child of Nero. She had the misfortune of being his child back when Nero was still learning how to do the “raising kids” thing—he mostly wanted weapons, so he left it to a trusted ally, Brenner. “The numbers” were still the numbers—they all have their tattoos, etc, and their childhoods were still incredibly horrifying. Nero’s parenting style for Meg is after he’s worked out the kinks—El was the trial run. But here’s the thing, guys—for both will and el I was torn between Hades & Zeus, because of the lights, etc. But then I thought more about El’s powers. Remember that time Nico TURNED SOMEONE INTO A GHOST? Were y’all there when El banished a demogorgon & a Henry to the Upsidedown with her mind? Kinda reminds me of that time Nico opened a portal to the underworld & banished the unkillable skeletons down there, or the time(s. Plural.) he GHOSTED PEOPLE. Nico’s ghosting people, in turn, reminds me of El making them bleed with her mind. And the way El moves things with her mind? Ngl got me thinking of Hazel using her metal manipulation, and the way Hazel shapes reality around her. El’s ability to get in people’s heads/find people/view their memories reminds me of Nico’s ability to control dreams & find people in dreams, or of Hazel’s ability to share flashbacks and memories. And, y’know, their ability to SENSE people’s location if they’re in the underworld/risk of death. El’s belief that she’s a monster? SO Hades-child coded.

(Also btw remember that time Will talked about El using her powers to rig the games in vegas? Let’s just say the siblings have a lot of fun in the Lotus Casino. No i will not elaborate. Yet.)

Then we get Henry. Henry’s obsession with spiders got me pinning him as a demigod child of Arachne (likely with mist-manipulation skills), also a victim of Nero & Brenner’s parenting as “One”. Henry’s obsession with time sealed his fate as the guy trying to host Kronos & bring about the end of the world (not to mention his willingly merging with the mindflayer).

Now. Mike. Remember when I said Mike was… complicated? So, as a greek demigod, Mike is the child of Calliope. We all know Mike is a storyteller, and as such, I thought the muse of epics was a fitting parent for him. His love of DnD & storytelling & writing matches nicely. This version mike is in fact a musician (singer specifically) which, again, fits with calliope. Another child of calliope, orpheus, used his voice to pull his lover out of the underworld, which… I thought was a nice parallel. There are other reasons Calliope chose to be the mother of this particular child, though…

Because Mike wasn’t ALWAYS a child of Calliope in this universe.

Remember when I said this was set in the 80s? I lied… only a little bit. PART of it is set in the 80s… and part of it is set quite a few years later.

You see, before Mike was a son of Calliope, he was the son of Karen & Ted Wheeler. Before Mike was a Greek Demigod… he was a Roman Legacy.

Not that he remembers it, of course. But forgetfulness is par for the course when it comes to the Lethe, and if you want to be reincarnated, well. You have to pay the price.

OKAY i think i indulged my dramatic tendencies enough now ill elaborate. Basically, our story “starts” (sort of) in New Rome. The Hoppers, Byers, and Wheelers are all very old legacy families. (Exploring this au gave me the opportunity to worldbuild for New Rome which made me so happy I have so many new headcanons). I’ll give a brief breakdown of them (we’ll get to Jason, Chrissy, Patrick, Murray, etc. later).

The Byers:

Lonnie Byers is a Vulcan kid. Undecided if he’s a demigod or a legacy, but leaning towards demigod. (See: Lonnie’s car. I didn’t want to do some shit like make Lonnie a son of Bacchus & have that be an excuse for his alcoholism bc thats bs so I tried to look at what we actually KNOW ab Lonnie. This is what I came up with).

Joyce Byers is a MAJOR legacy. The thing about Camp Jupiter is, there are WAY more legacies than there are demigods. And because legacies have long family lines… you get New Rome families that have journeyed with New Rome/Camp Jupiter since Ancient Rome, since before that, even, families like Frank’s with a deep history. And you also get a lot of families/demigods/legacies intermingling, a lot of legacies related to multiple Roman gods because of this. Such is the case for Joyce Byers. She’s descended from the greek(ish? Don’t quote me on that, I’m not POSITIVE she can be considered greek though she’s in greek mythology) prophet Cassandra, blessed with foresight by Apollo but cursed (also by Apollo, who according to ToA cursed her because she rejected him) so that no one would believe her. This… is very Joyce. Joyce be spitting facts & the men in her life be calling her crazy but she’s like. Always right. Cassandra was said to have two twin sons, Teledamus and Pelops, who were murdered as children. In this au, one survived, and the Byers are descended from that one. On the godly side of things… Apollo decided he really liked Cassandra’s bloodline, I guess, because he had a kid with one of her son’s descendants at some point down the line (or HIS kid or his kid’s kid had a kid with one of her descendants), and so Joyce Byers has some Apollo genes in her. She’s also (potentially) related to Providentia, the minor Roman goddess of foresight, and Iris, the greek goddess of messages & rainbows, though I’m v v torn on that last one.

Jonathan Byers is related to all the godly people his parents are related to. Because Camp Jupiter was said to be so disconnected from the gods (we only really see Camp Jupiter post-Jason going missing, post-Percy making the gods promise to do better, during a time of crisis—and when we see it AFTER that policies have changed even MORE because of Jason. We never see Camp Jupiter in its disconnected from the gods era, but we know it had one from the books, so.) claiming, particularly for legacies, works a bit differently. When you know which gods you’re related to, because Camp Jupiter has records of your family line as a legacy, it’s less a matter of who-is-my-parent (singular) and more a matter of what-relative-likes-me-best (for legacies whose families have a history with New Rome). New Rome is much more comfortable with minor gods, and claiming is much less important. Or rather—it’s a polite lie that claiming aren’t important. They are. Still, you can have successful campers who know full well which gods they’re related to & yet are never claimed. In Jonathan’s case, he didn’t want to be claimed by Vulcan, because he didn’t want the connection to his father. He chose a deity his mother was descended from (Apollo, i think) & prayer to them, instead. Jonathan isn’t defined by his godly heritage—he continues to have a passion for photography. But Apollo is the god of truth & light, & Jonathan likes using photography to illuminate the truth about his subjects (see his rant to season one explaining to Nancy why he photographed her).

Will Byers is, as mentioned earlier, a Hades child. Hopefully, after reading all about his Roman legacy family, and learning that Will grew up in New Rome, and learning about the ban on Big Three kids in ‘73–two years after Will was born—you can see why this might be a problem. Will is the son of Joyce Byers. Joyce & Hades met when Joyce & Lonnie were on a break (it looked like they’d be getting divorced. Unfortunately, they got back together). When Will was born, it was safer to say he was Lonnie’s. Still, when Lonnie said shit like “That’s not my son”… she wondered how good she was at hiding it. (If will’s father had been anyone else, the Lares of new rome, the house ghosts/house gods, would’ve been gossping about his greekness like the gosspied about percy’s in SoN. As it is, Joyce hid Will by the skin of her teeth… and it didn’t last. More on that later.)

The Hoppers:

Hopper is a member of an old New Roman family. He’s related to Mercury, Mars, and Venus, among others.

Hopper’s daughter, Sara, had a mortal mother. When Sara got sick, Hopper brought Sara to New Rome in an attempt to treat her. Sara couldn’t be cured. (Maybe she didn’t have enough godly blood for ambrosia/nectar? I’m curious about toying with that—maybe that’s why New Rome uses unicorn draught more, bc of how many legacies can ONLY use that). Lupa eventually took Sara, as she takes all Roman descendants (whether demigod or legacy) to test them before they can be allowed to join Camp Jupiter. Remember, this is canon: Lupa eats the ones she deems too weak. Lupa eats Sara Hopper, and the talk in New Rome is what it always is when Lupa eats a child: Lupa knows best, it was for the good of us all, it was a kindness.

The Wheelers:

Ted is a legacy of Jupiter—a very, very distant legacy. Still, the connection to Jupiter & his family’s long history with New Rome garner Ted some respect. I haven’t decided if Jupiter claimed Ted (as his legacy, like Apollo did for Octavian) or not. Ted is also related to a minor god called Sancus—the god of honesty and vows, though more related to contracts, look it up its cool (think: friends don’t tell lies. Think: a promise is something you never, ever break). He’s probably also related to Mars & a few others, like Karen & Joyce & Hopper, because Old Families.

Karen is ALSO a member of a respected legacy family, known for being & claimed as a legacy of Venus.

Karen & Ted are a power couple

Nancy is related to all the gods her parents are related to, some of whom i haven’t listed. Nancy advances quickly in New Rome, though isn’t claimed. (The popular theory is that Jupiter and/or Mars are waiting for Nancy to impress them before claiming her). Nancy becomes a praetor, goes on a bunch of quests, is highly proficient in weaponry and as a leader/strategist/intellectual. (More to say on Nancy. A Lot more.)

Mike is also related to all the gods his parents are, just like Nancy, just like Holly. Essentially… Mike has big shoes to fill. And Mike, as he is (un-athletic, slow at running, bad at fighting, “frogface”) doesn’t fit the expectations for a legacy of Jupiter and Venus, for a Wheeler, for the brother of Nancy, for the son of Karen. Most expect that when Lupa summons him, she’ll eat him, and they talk about this openly and loudly around Mike. (See: Troy & James)

I have more lore, but i know i’ve rambled a lot already, so basically: these three families are at camp jupiter. As in canon, mike and will grew up together, and are best friends. The dodge taunts of “zombie boy” and “frogface” together, go to the elementary school in New Rome together, prepare for Camp jupiter together

(Btw, when Joyce & Hop joined Camp Jupiter, they 11, & were in the same cohort)

Then, when they’re 12, Lupa summons Will. Will’s worried. Mike thinks that’s ridiculous. Will’s the strongest person he knows, he’s great with a gun, he’s powerful—Lupa has no reason to reject him.

(Except for that he’s greek. Except for that he’s a son of Hades. Except for that he’s not supposed to be alive. Except for that THIS Big Three child isn’t a pawn in a goddess’ plan, THIS Big Three child isn’t the key to saving the world or Rome, THIS Big Three child isn’t coming to Lupa in years of conflict, or in the years after Percy Jackson got the gods to make Big Three Children legal again. THIS greek Big Three Child is simply a threat.

Not that Mike knows any of that. Even Will doesn’t know all of it before he meets Lupa—he just knows enough to stay hidden.)

Lupa tries to kill Will. Will, as a son of Hades, as a greek demigod, escapes into the Labyrinth. He encounters another demigod called Henry there, but… that’s a story for another day.

When Will doesn’t return, it is treated as par for the course, an acceptable loss. This infuriates Mike, who feels like… like he’s the only one who’s acting normal. Like he’s the only one who cares about Will. This plants the seed of resentment against the gods in Mike, the seed of anti-government leanings we see in canon (in mike and nancy and jonathan and joyce and hopper and—) (anarchist Mike Wheeler, Luke-was-right Mike Wheeler (not that luke exists in this universe but still)—& he starts Nancy down the pipeline, too.)

Joyce calls up Hopper, who she knows will understand having a child taken by Lupa. She’s sure her son is alive, that he’s reaching out to her (in her dreams, perhaps?). The labyrinth takes the place of the upsidedown in this au more or less. Jonathan leaves New Rome with Joyce & Hopper to try & find will. He tries to get nancy wheeler to care, reminding her that it’ll be her in his shoes soon, that everyone expects Lupa to eat Mike—but Nancy gets defensive & lets Jonathan leave. (She’ll regret that, later).

Mike eventually leaves, too. He stumbles upon a girl called eleven, on the run from her papa & Nero. She tells him that she’s a greek daughter of hades, in her season one way of speaking, and Mike outs together some clues about will, will’s power, and will’s heritage that he’d willfully ignored. They enter the labyrinth together, Mike and El. Mike gives El her nickname, tells her about will, tells her how they’re going to go back to new rome once they find him. El keeps mike from getting himself killed with his negative survival skills and utter lack of fighting prowess/athleticism.

Mike doesn’t find will. Mike never finds will, in fact. Not before he dies.

El does, though.

Hopper, Joyce, and Jonathan were able to find will in the labyrinth. Reunited, they make plans for will & jonathan to go to a place called Camp Half Blood, which will be better for greek demigod will (as long as he hides his father). (Jonathan is fine hiding his heritage; camp half blood is a bit of a culture shock for the byers, because of the emphasis of demigods & parentage & cabins-by parentage). I’m unclear on whether they find El in the labyrinth or in the casino itself; regardless, the clan meets el, learns of nero & the trimuvate’s plans, and ends up running into the lotus casino in an attempt to avoid the monsters tracking them down.

El & mike got split up in the maze. Nancy either brought mike home, or mike died. I think mike lived, though. He lived to 15. He lived to grow bitter towards the gods, to be claimed by his godly ancestor Sancus, to be summoned by Lupa. I can’t decide whether Lupa does kill Mike or not—kind of the whole point is that WE know Mike has value, but by Lupa’s standards, his life doesn’t, to show how insane it is to judge kids in this way. & to illuminate the flaws in camp jupiter, same as camp halfblood has its own. (Why a child army if you have adults????? Why eaten children when you can protect them?????).

That, or he jumped off a cliff at 12 in an attempt to save El. One of the two.

Nancy Wheeler lives to become praetor. She mourns Barb, taken by the dangerous lives demigods lead. She mourns Will Byers, pointlessly lost. She mourns her brother, who she didn’t do enough to protect. She tries to change the system from within, fails, wins more accolades, fails to change things, goes on more quests, and fails some more. Nancy’s violent edge that was so out of place in the canon universe, that was non-conformity, here allows her to conform and thrive. But, as in canon, Nancy grows to embrace non-conformity while retaining the aspects of herself that, while valued by general society, SHE enjoys/likes (her femininity, her intelligence, etc). She becomes a radical rather like Mike, and likely joins the Amazons. What I CAN’T decide is if she is blessed as a gift for a successful quest with eternal youth, for what an awful thing that is—most godly descendants never get to grow up, and Nancy’s reward for her efforts, for her blood and sweat and tears, is that SHE will never grow up either. But you can’t reject a gift from a god. Would be great if she could get something useful out of it, a way to change the system they’re stuck in, but…

She & Murray the faun bond over their bitterness.

Meanwhile, the Byers (Joyce Will El Hopper Jonathan) are trapped in the Lotus casino. Willel DO use their abilities to rig games. Willel also cry together when they sense mike die, their minds so foggy from the casino that they can barely understand what it is they’re sensing, why it is they’re crying. Eventually, decades after they first entered, they emerge from the casino in a new world, and resume their quest to camp half blood. (Not the 80s anymore).

Joyce & Hopper are perplexed that adults aren’t allowed in camp half blood, but. While jonathan enters with will and el (who was reluctant to go east, so close to nero), joyce and hopper begin their quest to take down nero (perhaps running into nancy wheeler or murray bauman or bob newby along the way).

Inside camp? Will & El & Jonathan hang in the Hermes cabin, Jonathan obviously (to Chiron) Roman, Will & El obviously powerful & dangerous. They make friends—Max from aphrodite, Dustin from hephaestus, Lucas from apollo, Argyle from Demeter…

And Mike, short for Michael. Son of Calliope, theater enthusiast, Hermes Cabin resident… and the reincarnation of Michael Wheeler, Roman Legacy.

Not that he remembers any of that, of course. Certainly not.

(On an unrelated note, he’s been having some incredibly vivid dreams lately—they feature the new kid, Will, but younger, more innocent, in a strange camp… They feature his sister El, but smaller, quieter, with a shaved head and a frantic edge, in a maze that never ends... )

(Calliope found the tragedy of it all romantic. Mike and Will are less inclined to agree.)

(I did not expect this to be this long jesus christ)

(But its written now ig)

Currently putting together all my thoughts about the pjogate guys... I will never know rest until I do the whole world building. I am obsessed, my mind will not know rest.

[luciusgerard]

How to tell if someone is going to have the absolute worst Stranger Things takes:

If any of the things on this list apply to a user on any social media site (particularly Tumblr, Twitter, or TikTok) or a person IRL, chances are they're not worth engaging with because their opinions and theories regarding the show will be hot garbage.

This is just my opinion by the way, if you disagree you may continue on your merry way and continue having crappy opinions. That said, let's begin.

1. They stan this bitch.

Now, don't get me wrong. When I say this, I don't mean people who like Billy as a character because of what he adds to the show. I'm talking about people who have allowed themselves to become so obsessed that they make excuses for his abusive and racist actions. A place of understanding is not a place of justification. I'm also talking about the people who ship him with Steve (or anyone), believe he and Eddie would be friends, hate Max because she "insulted" their "baby," and the people who shit on Eddie and the Steddie ship as a whole because they view Eddie as some kind of carbon copy of Billy. You know who you are, and you suck.

2. They hate Robin or Lucas.

Neither of these characters have done anything wrong. I've never seen anyone justify their dislike of Robin for a non-ableist or non-homophobic reason (because they don't exist), and Lucas, one of two Black main characters in the show, gets criticised so harshly and so often compared to White characters who have done inarguably worse things. Y'all don't realise how damn quick you are to antagonise a Black boy in situations where he's behaving in entirely reasonable and rational manners, like when he was "mean to El" in season one when he's doing what the majority of people in his situation would do, meanwhile I hardly ever see people calling Mike out for being so needlessly rude to Max in season two. Case in point: If you hate on Robin or Lucas, your opinion is trash.

3. They're strongly against Byler and its shippers.

I honestly don't care whether you personally ship Byler or not, you can't deny that people who are 100% against even the idea of Byler are at least a little homophobic (well, technically you could, but you'd be wrong).

"Mike is straight!"

Has that been confirmed? Did Mike tell you that? Did the Duffer Brothers tell you that? No? Exactly. Besides, even if it were outright confirmed that Mike is only into girls, why is it so difficult for you to let people enjoy things that aren't causing you or anyone else any direct or indirect harm? God, please just make some friends.

"But Mike has only ever shown interest in girls!"

Tell me you have little to no media literacy skills without telling me you have little to no media literacy skills. Seriously, babe, that's not even remotely true. I can guarantee that if Will and/or Eddie were women, people like you would be all over the Byler ship and the Mike-having-a-crush-on-Eddie headcanon.

"Mike and El are in love, didn't you hear his monologue?"

See the first sentence of my last point and shut up.

4. They unironically refer to Will as "the gay one" or a variation of it.

This one is more specifically talking to the allocishets: Why is it that for three seasons Will Byers got to be referred to by his name like every other character, but season four comes out (no pun intended) and all of a sudden he's being reduced to his sexual orientation? Answer quickly.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. If you have anything to add, comment or reblog. Have a good day, people these points don't apply to.

[thewrongmoon]

Mike's conflict in season 5

So I've seen a handful of people who think that we will be let down by the lack of angst or turmoil Mike will go through next season. Like a lot say that it's Will that will be struggling rather than Mike. But I wanna go through why I don't think that makes sense.

Other characters struggles going into s5:

Lucas- had to watch Max die. Feels guilty that he let Max fester in her depression and didn't reach out sooner. Probably feels like he should have stopped her from using herself as bait for Vecna.

Dustin- saw Eddie die. Also probably feels like he could have stopped this from happening. Hates that everyone thinks he's a murderer when he really was trying to save his friends.

El- oh boy, there's a lot. Was bullied in California. Assualted a girl with a skate, which made her feel like a monster. Had her boyfriend not comfort her, which made her feel even worse. Had to relive traumatic memories of someone committing mass murder. Had her abuser forced back in her life again through this. Lost her best friend and feels responsible. Had her boyfriend blatantly lie about loving her. Wasn't able to stop Hawkins from being split in two.

Will- In love with his best friend. His best friend is dating his sister and (from his perspective) loves and cares about her more than him. Still feels connected to the mindflayer. Probably feels responsible for the destruction of Hawkins because his disappearance caused all of this.

Max- Literally in a coma, but we did see her trauma and struggles in the previous season (trauma from Billy's death, dealing with being poor, suicidal ideation.)

And Mike... has... nothing?

Or, at least, some people think Mike will just have no struggles I guess. But how does EVERY other character have some sort of struggle except him? I feel like it would be weird if we see everyone else having a mental breakdown and Mike is just chilling.

Mike's struggles:

Really the only struggle Mike has actually vocalized is his relationship status with El. In season 3 with Lucas, but especially in season 4 to Will.

It's questionable why exactly he decides to vocalize this. Maybe to get advice? Like that definitely seems to be the case with Lucas. He specifically asks Lucas what he should do.

With Will, he seems to be fishing for reassurance or validation. He's not asking Will "how do I tell her I love her?", he's asking "what if she doesn't need me?" Whether he wants Will to say El needs him or that Will needs him remains to be seen, but he's doesn't seem to be searching for a solution like he does with Lucas.

This is actually a big step for Mike. We never see Mike ask anyone for emotional support. His mom is the only exception to this, he does go to her for hugs, but Will is the only person he's opened up to using his words.

Mike has a hard time opening up. Because of this, we literally do not know his struggles, because we can't see into his brain.

Mike's potential unspoken troubles:

Let's go down the list:

-He was bullied prior to the start of the show and probably throughout seasons 1-4

-His best friend was kidnapped in s1

-He jumped off a cliff because of bullies in s1

-He watched El "die" in s1

-Mike seeing Bob die in s2

-He saw Will get possessed in s2, which led to:

-Him watching Will cry

-Him watching Will slowly turn into someone else

-Him watching Will in extreme pain

-Him watching Will kill several bystanders

-Him having to knock Will out via injection

then season 3 (we're not done yet)

-Mike fighting with Will for the first time and very clearing hurting him emotionally

-Mike watching El be injured by the mindflayer

-Mike watching Billy die (he was there too don't forget)

-Mike watching his best friend of 9 years and his girlfriend leave and move to the other side of the country

-Mike isolating himself and showing signs of depression (not cleaning, moodiness) in between seasons 3 and 4

-Mike never getting calls back from Will

-Mike getting lied to by El

-Mike watching El get horrifically bullied

-Mike getting in another fight with Will

-Mike seeing El hit someone with a roller skate

-Fighting with El (in which he gets compared to her bullies and has his own experience with bullying disregarded by El)

-Mike seeing El get taken to prison and not being able to do anything

-Mike getting caught in a shoot-out

-Mike watching another man die

-Mike burying a dead body in a desert

-Mike watching El almost die again and being powerless to do anything

-A man Mike looked up to being killed while he was away

-Mike getting back home and immediately seeing Will be vulnerable to Vecna (where like. a whole slew of his trauma comes from.)

AND that's not even mentioning the internalized homophobia, issues with his parents, conflict with the rest of the party or Nancy, etc.

Mike has a CRAZY AMOUNT of trauma to sort through. Arguably more than some other characters on the show. I think that Mike's leader-complex makes him feel like he can't even open up about more than half this shit I've just listed.

While Will did tell Mike what he needed to hear, I almost think what he said could lead to Mike trying to continue to bury this stuff cause he thinks he has to be the leader.

He's gonna snap eventually. If he doesn't, then Vecna will do something to make him have to. Vecna has a whole arsenal of memories to use against him.

Long story short, if everyone else has shit they're going through, Mike has gotta have something too. And there's plenty of things they can choose from here.

[ladyapplejackdnd]

My Eddie Munson scenarios / Theories of Stranger things 5

Joseph Quinn had recently said "when do we start shooting?" indicating that he's possibly be in the next/last season but with that being said he could also get into so much trouble for letting that slip but with my concerns a side. I just want to say that even thought he could be in the new/last season there are a lot of different ways he could be in Stranger Things 5:

He could be a vampire ( like a lot of fans guessed would be the case ) in other words Eddie does get left behide and the way the upside down works some how he become Kas and kill Vecna which also got me concern cause if that is true what would happen to Eddie once they defeat Vecna? I'm sure Eddie wont be able to survive in the regular world the town already doesn't like Eddie this would give them way more to hate him for properly calling him the true child of Satan and such (we don't care what they think). how would he's Uncle feel about him being semi alive.

Another one is he just comes in flashbacks like with Dustin, Mike,Max, and others.Which although he would still come back to the show I still hate this idea cause they did this with Billy and he didn't have one scene where it wasn't a reused scene from season 3 even if they just remade the scene. I wasn't happy with this cause they could have done something more with this if this was Max's season like they said they should have given us more like her backstory and such like what happen to her dad? did he leave or did he die in someway? I'm hoping they give us more scenes that take place before season 4 like showing us how the gang got into Hellfire Club or how Eddie and Robin truly know each other Whether that be him and her had an Eddie introduction interaction, an Robin introduction interaction, or just a hey and hi interaction.

You also have the " he didn't die he just passed out" Eddie Munson aka Eddie the Banished aka Eddie the Heroic now I know everyone is like but how could he be alive. First of all he could have an in and out moment before he "died" and we just just saw one of them, they could have even got him to the other side of the portal and he is now back to live somehow and is now hiding out until the town is told that he isn't a murder and that he is innocent. which is one that i also like.

then you have the second to last option which is also that Eddie is one of the lab kids. One of which is he turns out to be Vecna's child and they have a "Eddie, I am your father. Noooooo" moment lmao or he is just a lab kid that some how escape(which wouldn't be the first time a lab kid has escape lol like they need to do better) now there is a scene in season 4 leading us to believe he could be a lab kid which was the scene with Eddie and Chrissy meeting up in the woods if you know you know. they somehow erased his memory of being part of the lab and they gave him to his Uncle Wayne and told him to watch him kind of doing an experiment to possible see how Eddie/lab kids will be in the regular world and also see if the wiping his memeories actually worked now I say this cause he's Uncle works at "the plant" never being very specific as to what he actually does. now that Eddie is going though this world and learning and seeing that theirs more to Hawkins then meets the eye he gets his memories of the lab which also causes him to know he has powers and this is how we get interaction between Eddie and Eleven/Jane and/or possibly Kali and or other lab kids who has ran away from the labs ( if the Russians know about the upside down there is a possibility that they also have children and that Hawkins' lab isn't the only lab filled with super-abilities children) and with both of those scenarios we see Eddie Munson with super-abilities.

last option is that Eddie become Vecna's next and possibly last possession and we see him become the Villain the whole town accuses him of. We get another side of him and maybe also see him struggling in the background with watching inside his head as hes doing stuff he doesn't want to do just like Billy was, we also see the look of the gangs faces when they remember what happened in Starcourt Mall and this could end with Eddie either dead or alive

these are just some ideas as to what could be in season 5.

[munsons-maiden]

The thing is that I really really hope Joe comes back in s5 but I’m still very suspicious of them because after season 3 Dacre also used to say in interviews that maybe his character was coming back and they’d somehow find a way that he was still alive (just want to clarify I hate billy but had a huge crush on the actor so that’s why I’ve watched the interviews lmao)

You don't need to clarify anything, dear, it would have been just as fine if you were a Billy stan with all your heart. Liking a fictional character doesn't say anything about your own character. Else, the Hannibal fandom would be cannibals, for example, and without ever encountering anyone from the Hannibal fandom, I'm very certain they're not cannibals 😂

The thing is, I'm not sure that Dacre won't return as Billy. The coke bottle in the end was a reference to Billy and the void, and it would fit for Max to encounter Billy in the place she's lost in. Billy, and the rest of Vecna's victims.

But even that aside, the characters Billy and Eddie are different because Eddie has been built up as a main character from the start, which wasn't the case with Billy, who became a main character in his second season - but he was never part of the main cast like Eddie was.

Furthermore, as far as I remember, Dacre didn't get half the amount of promo and press tours that Joe is getting right now - and the symbolism foreshadowing Eddie's return is there. The characters' deaths are, in my eyes, very much different because while Billy was impaled several times, Eddie's wounds were "intentionally not too deep and gory", to quote the make up artist, and I still stand with my impression after seeing the bts pics that these wounds couldn't have been deadly.

Even if Billy didn't return, the circumstances for Eddie are very different.

Of course Joe could be teasing, of course these cheeky grins are not evidence for anything - but they're very, very suspicious. I don't recall Dacre ever giving any cheeky grins during his own interviews. And I don't see a rational reason for Joe to show these reactions if he didn't know something - which he does, like he already admitted in his interview with Jamie. Which in itself is weird, since all the actors seem to know so far is whether their characters will return, plus Joe who "knows...some things." Add the several interviews he gave in between volumes, telling people he and Charlie Heaton were pushing for Jonathan and Eddie to meet in ST5, Joe wishing he could work with Winona in ST5...another weird thing to say if you know your character will stay dead, especially since he already spoiled that Eddie and Jonathan didn't meet in Vol2 before it was released.

I'm always trying to see if I could connect the dots with another explanation than "Eddie comes back" to be sure I'm building my hopes on realistic thoughts rather than delusional ones and...I can't find an explanation connecting all these dots that doesn't involve Eddie's return. Something sketchy is going on.

[nikiiwi]

some actual predictions

I'm almost never right about shit I call, but I like saying "I knew it!" when I am, so here goes:

DEATH

I'm like 50/50 on whether I think any of these will happen.

Eddie: So much of his arc is about facing his fear. He runs away, he tells the club it's okay to run away during the campaign. I just know we're getting some brave heroics and possibly a sacrificial death.

Hopper: I don't really believe a character can really "finish serving their purpose". If their old arc is over, give 'em a new one. But Hopper has grown so much since S1. We got a fake-out last season and El doesn't know he's alive yet, so I doubt this one. But I think it's possible.

Max: Please I don't want it to be any of the kids. But the fact that Vecna is still gunning for her, the fact that she wandered through his mind? Danger.

Steve: I guess my reasoning is similar to Hopper's. The fact that they're playing Stancy up so hard also feels suspicious to me.

Jonathan: Will looks pissed in that new trailer. He could just be reacting to Vecna/The Mind Flayer in general, but I'm thinking someone close is in danger. Joyce is in Russia and he's talking to Mike. Plus there's something about the way he and Nancy expressed their love for one another but he's being so distant.

Brenner: He fucking better.

VECNA'S CURSE

Mike: If we need a motivator for both Will and El, here it is. I think this is the most likely.

Brenner: He's the source of a lot of Vecna/001's trauma, so I think this is also pretty likely. (hopehesnapshisfuckingneckrip)

Max: She's still being chased. I think she'll get taken again.

Jonathan: If it's not death, it's the curse (or both). I just know he's gonna be targeted.

Jason: It just seems fitting. So many cult themes in this season and Jason is a bonafide cult leader in the making. He can get so many people to turn on a dime. He's not afraid to exploit the deaths of people for personal gain. And he just faced serious trauma. If he's not getting Vecna'd, he's becoming his ally.

SHIPS

Stancy: I don't think it's gonna happen. If anything, it's being telegraphed too hard. I'm not expecting Steddie or Ronance, but I think Steve and Nancy will come very close to something happening before a) Steve pulls back 'cause he's a decent guy or b) Nancy decides she won't do this before talking to Jonathan.

Byler: I think Will is gonna come out. But I'm not so sure about this. I think it's more likely than Mike telling El he loves her, but I don't know how Will would feel about being with Mike now that he and El are siblings. That's a big way to hurt her.

Rickie: I don't think they introduced Vickie just to ignore her in Vol. 2. This is happening in some way.

CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Eddie is 010: Absolutely not. It's such a reach. Based on a buzz cut? I'm being reductive. There's more to it than that, but I think it's tenuous at best.

El is 001's daughter: I fucking hope not. I think this carries a little more weight, but it's so dark. And #problematic as well, tbh. More likely than the last one though.

Kali/008 is returning: I want this so bad and I refuse to hope for it. They're not bringing back the woc that was maligned by the fandom, no matter how relevant her plot is to this season.

Billy will show up again for Max: I MEAN? PROBABLY? I hate this but yeah probably.

[rxpunzelwrites-blog]

what my kiddos are doing for valentine’s day!

laura tagged along with lydia and rosy for a lot of the day because she normally spends the day with lydia and felt a little lonely probably. but then she left the two of them to do their own thing and now she’s scotty’s valentine and eating donuts with him.

audrey isn’t even aware it’s valentine’s day. she was probably alarmed by the all the paper hearts in messina then eventually shrugged it off and went to work.

harper spent it with toby of course, and baked him heart shaped cookies and they probably went for lunch with their kiddies! she also baked rhodes a batch as well and kissed him all over his face and told him she loved him no less than thirty times.

reuben had to help bill pick out a valentine’s day gift from tori and suggested that he take her on a ghost tour. whether or not he took that onboard is up to jenny :’) and then reuben pulled himself to dinner and asked daisy on a second date and probably just took her somewhere nice for dinner.

mickey didn’t celebrate valentine’s day because it’s shane’s birthday which is a hundred times more important to him. he saved up his money and bought him a vintage signed photo of gregory peck.

dennis went right ahead and bought bret flowers and they weren’t crumpled this time and he says that he’s only making up for squashing them on their auction date and that he didn’t even know that it was valentine’s day but he said all this with a stupid smile on his face and probably helped with the rosy surprise even though he complained the whole way through it.

alice spent the whole day making out with jay. probably in front of quinn at some point. i am so sorry.

leon sent an anonymous card to freddie because he’s in way over his head. silly boy.

atticus kissed eeeeeeveryone on the cheek today. but finn and reggie and amelia and annie got TWO kisses. he didn’t get anyone any gifts bc he claimed that he is their gift and that they should feel blessed.

wren claimed quinn as her valentine like she usually does. she made him a card like she usually does. and she kissed him like she usually does. later on, she went birdwatching with henry and tried to ignore all the flutters in her tummy.

rosy spent her day with lydia and got the best surprise EVERRRRR. she definitely cried. and then when laura left them alone she demanded that she and lydia cuddle in bed for the whole night and then told lydia that it’s the best valentine’s day she’d ever had. also realised she’s in love with lydia but didn’t say it out loud because she wants to tell bret first and ask if he thinks she should tell her.

wilhelm literally just spent the day with ringo starr. his ankle still hurts so he couldn’t even dance, poor bb.

felix wrote little valentine’s day cards for raegan, hazel and monica and then he sent one to eddie ‘from mallory’. but yeah it’s mostly from him. felix loves valentine’s day oh my gosh.

jack sang love songs all day, i’m not joking. he probably shyly serenaded ivy as well.

justin definitely asked raegan out on a date. and then as a joke he’d pretend he’d asked colton out as well and then he’d pretend to be worried about being double booked and then insist that indy needs to come now as well so there’ an even number. it probably wasn’t even his idea because he’s too dumb for that so raegan is welcome to take the credit.

callum debated asking what scotty was doing and then decided against it and just wished kai a happy valentine’s day through the wall before ultimately just going to work and spending his night on the docks.

brody lmaaaao okay so brody bought hunter a bunch of the saddest looking daffodils in the whole entire world because that was all he could afford. and he left them at her desk and claimed that it was so he could ‘keep up appearances’ oh my god i’ve been waiting to type this all day.

riley received lots of valentine’s cards from his students and took them all home with him and pinned them on his wall after he conferred with barry just to make sure that none of them were serious love letters. he sent monty a card and said he only did so because that’s what the two of them usually do.

sutton probably went to hang out with kara and ollie fully aware that it was valentine’s day but didn’t mention it and if it was brought up he would feign ignorance like ‘oh??? it’s valentine’s day???’

let’s not talk about how greyson is doing today

elsie kept herself to herself even though she contemplated wishing tara a happy valentine’s day but decided against it. angelica probably tried to corner her for a kiss but she ran away.

wardo is the most loved up fucking goober right now. he spent the whole day kissing louis and then dancing with cecily and ivy and was even nice to ulysses. wardo was in the best mood ever today okay.

elliot cooked chicken nuggets for melody and then took her to a monster truck rally. he asked for a kiss from raegan and was probably denied it, but he definitely gave rhodes a big kiss. and he’s super worried about him after the break up.

pace and cece didn’t give each other valentine’s gifts, but pace wished everyone he came across a happy valentine’s day. he filmed a lot of people getting their gifts and even caught a proposal on camera so he’s had a good day living through other people’s happiness.

angelica gave everyone all the kisses including lizzie, bea, jess, seth, katie, carter, cassie, conrad, melody and nearly elsie. basically if you think there’s a chance that angelica would have reason to kiss your oc then she definitely did.

dean spent the day watching finding nemo with mellie and baby hadley :)

joe hooked up with someone he can’t remember the name of. very romantic.

sybil went ghost hunting as usual, possibly with byron and if anyone tried to suggest something about that she’d threaten to curse them.

ella had class but brought hazel cupcakes home for her to decorate. she probably uploaded the footage to her youtube channel.

aaron is spending the day with his girlfriend but let it be known that he text astrid saying, ‘happy valentine’s day, maine x’

harvey was working but as you can see, he’s talking to kenny which means he’s very happy about that.

nathaniel spent the day with will and jane and kissed them both and basically just tried to keep will’s spirits up.

will isn’t doing good right now and he misses alex a lot and he feels edgy and anxious but he spent time with nathaniel and jane anyway bc he knew it would make nate happy.

dixie was working but when she saw séamus in the lobby, she definitely wished him a happy valentine’s day and then spent the rest of her shift blushing about it. also her momma made a sculpture in her pottery class and ‘in the spirit’ of valentine’s, she gave it to mr croft. innocently, of course, but dixie knows better and wasted no time in telling cassie and david.

cecily spent her day playing with apollo and smiling and giggling at wardo and louis. she let wardo dance with her and she hugged ivy and after some encouragement from her brother, she got brave enough to kiss louis on the cheek and wish him a happy valentine’s day before all the excitement got a bit too much for her and she scurried off to the museum. but then she saw david and got all frazzled again :’)

levi IS GOING ON A SORT-OF DATE WITH AMELIA AND THAT’S THAT ON THAT.

dustin is making fun of all his students’ valentines. because he’s a dick.

diego probably isn’t doing a lot bc when is he ever but i like to think he enlisted caroline’s help to draw a picture of a butterfly so he could give it to cedric.

chase is getting high af and hooking up with whoever wants him. mess.

max is having the time of her fricking life and sent valentine’s to practically all of messina. she’s wearing heart themed everything today and her muse is through the roof so she’s probably planned like six new novels and she’s LIVING. and she’s asking after everyone else’s valentines and how they’re going and fangirling over all the cute things.

holly walked into a novel idea. glared at katie. left.

benji probably got another kiss of david because i say so that’s why.

jutta has no valentine but she plans to find one when she goes out clubbing tonight so really she’ll be fine.

taylor sent valentine’s to both darren and ronnie from BOTH her and james because she knew james wanted to but wasn’t brave enough, and it also helped her feel less guilty about everything that’s happened between her and the boys lately.

bennett got piss drunk then found some randomer to sleep with so he can forget about calvin and hero.

kit is in a surprisingly good mood today. simon gave her chocolates which she didn’t eat, but gave them to cody instead. then she baked cakes for daisy, simon, lo and beau. she was probably super shy about giving lo one but again, she’s in a good mood, she got over herself and did it.

simon woke up feeling sad but he still went into work and bravely wished billy a happy valentine’s day AS A FRIEND before saying the same to everyone else in a novel idea. then he went home and gave chocolate to kit and beau to be a gentleman.

evie demanded that jax be her valentine because she knew he hasn’t quite managed to work up the courage to ask ronan out and ronan remains oblivious.

oz gave out free candy to everyone and tried not to be sad when daisy told him she was going on a date with reuben so there’s that.

caroline heard that amelia and cassie were both otherwise preoccupied but decided that was okay because she woke up and tackled jason and gave him a big kiss on the cheek as well as a card that says ‘i love you to infinity and beyond’. she also bumped into gabe and pretended to not know it was valentine’s day pls just give me this.

mellie is probs very anti-valetine’s day right now. she’s avoiding che and probably pouted if indy did end up giving into justin and going out, so she watched finding nemo with dean instead.

ronan was working and being oblivious about jax and i hate him for it. he probably spent what free time he had attempting to find a date for his cousin, abel.

alfie baked all his friends a heart shaped pie and gave them all kisses even though he’s a little bi awkward around scotty rn because he’s not sure if he’s allowed to kiss his cheek anymore, but his spirits were up anyway!

emma was on set and i’m sure that drew did something charming so there’s that :’)

ellis arranged so many flower bouquets today and you can bet your goddamn ass she went to pick clara up at school and gave one to barry whether he liked it or not. she also graciously camped out in calvin’s room in order to give rory the space should he bring someone home :’) and because of that she probably bulled calvin into letting her braid his hair.

seth spent the day with all of his friend - not just katie. he gave all of his friend a valentine’s day hug - not just katie. he went out at night with all of his friends - not just katie. AND YES HE’S SURE HE STARED LONGINGLY AT /ALL/ OF HIS FRIENDS NOT JUST KATIE, THANKS VERY MUCH.

noah literally spent the whole of rehearsal belting every single iconic broadway love song at isaac just to get a reaction from him.

conrad was bullied by anya into wishing lizzie a happy valentine’s day. he’s going to be embarrassed about this for the next three months.

carter as we know was cassie’s valentine and the two of them shared alllll the candy and chocolate together. and then he met teddy and let a stranger hug him and that’s very important for him. also, he pined over jess. as per.

kevin WAS SNAKED BY CARTER FUCKING HEFFRON. he’s v displeased and pouted at katie for being the mastermind behind the whole thing.

piper probably took a selfie with hunter and sent it to brody saying that she was stealing his valentine. 

robbie spent it with blair and was appalled when jimmy showed up to ask if he could take blair out because EXCUSE ME CATTLE MAN THAT’S MY VALENTINE AND I NEED TO MAKE ALL THE MEMORIES WITH HER. so my headcanon is that he obnoxiously tagged along.

beau got cakes from kit and chocolate from simon and bought lo a big tub of marshmallows :) she’s not really up for celebrating though after her break up.

bailey sent all of her sisters gifts and then went to the stables so she could assist couples going on valentine treks together. she briefly contemplated how lonely single life can be but swiftly got over it.

adam definitely gave mack a card and a teddy literally just to piss off roy because he’s awful.

sawyer was in the ER and probably walked in on bennett and someone on the on-call room and is scarred for life. she debated going to see lux but then realised caleb might be working and decided against it.

micah spent the day at home with jd. he feels bad about not really checking on greyson but he knows he doesn’t treat jd the way he should or spend that much time with him on a good day and he wants to make that up to him on the national day of romance.

foster was working and probably received an inappropriate valentine’s from one of his students that probably left him close to tears because NO THIS IS WRONG WHY CAN’T I JUST HAVE AN EASY LIFE. he probably debated shoving himself back in the janitor’s closet before ultimately deciding to hide away at lunch time and share his babybel with ryke.

jimmy decided to ask out blair for the day and then realised that meant robbie would be tagging along. he was only a little annoyed.