#'you cant bring aro experiences into ace spaces because not all aces are aro! we can feel love and have relationships!!!'

[redysetdare]

listen when we say we need aroace rep - we MEAN we need AROACE REP. becuze shock of all shocks, a character being just ACE is not aroace rep! same with a character being just aro is not aroace rep. not all aroace ppl see their aro and ace identities as separate.

I for one, find it difficult to separate my aro and ace identities from each other which is why i am AROACE and not aro and ace. A character being only ace is not representing me. I do not feel represented by only an ace character. they are not even half representing me because my asexuality goes hand in hand with my aromantisism. and Ace character is not half representing aroace people. I'm sorry but i do not relate to the alloace experience because i am not alloace. so a character being only ace is not relatable to me because they are not aroace. the same goes for if a character was only aro or aroallo.

Now before anyone decides to misinterpret this post to hell and back I'm not saying that aroallo or alloace rep is bad or shouldn't exist. I'm saying stop throwing aroace rep under the bus because "Actually we need more just aro/just ace rep" as if that somehow solves the issue of aroace rep being nonexistent.

[colorisbyshe]

I want to start by saying I hope I dont come off as combative or rude. I just want to know how, as an asexual person, how I can not be toxic to the LGBTQ community. Like im bi and ace and I've been told I can join a lgbt group and they cited a post you wrote. They said I couldnt join cause im not part of the LGBT community cause asexuality is toxic. But I cant tell if thats what you meant or not and im genuinely just confused and trying to understand whats going on? Obviously don't answer if you don't want to, you don't owe this a response lol.

So, either you or the people you cited have misread my post and badly. I have never said all asexual people are inherently toxic to the LGBT community or don't belong in the LGBT community even if they are otherwise LGBT.

I have simply said that cisgender, straight aces/aros or cis aroaces do not belong in LGBT spaces and that LGBT aces should be aware that some ace rhetoric is harmful and endeavor to never use it, whether it be for themselves or around LGBT people.

Basically, just don't make LGBT spaces about your asexuality and just... THINK about how terminology you learned in ace spaces affects LGBT people.

Do you use the term biromantic instead of saying you're a bisexual ace? Don't do that. Bisexual is not a term inherently describing sexual attraction. The "sexual" in bisexual (and heterosexual and sexual orientation) refers to sex/gender, not sexy sex. When you bring in terms like "biromantic" you are hurting other bisexuals in that space, since many of them may struggle with being sexualized, reclaiming their seuxal attraction, or might just be ace/sex repulsed.

Do you use terms like "sex positive" and insist you can have sex without sexual attraction? Think about how that mirrors conversion therapy rhetoric. LGBT people are regularly told they can have healthy sexual/romantic relationships to peopel they feel no attraction to. LGBT people are pressured into sex "to make their partner happy" all the time. Accept that if you wanna fuck someone, that is sexual attraction. There is nothing wrong with feeling sexual attraction. Denying this is sexual attraction just harms LGBT people who have struggled to accept what they feel and desire.

Do you use the term allosexual or insist aces are oppressed? Do you genuinely think LGBT people are privileged for feeling sexual attraction over you? That is erasing how LGBT people face violence, discrimination, and isolation for their romantic desires. LGBT people have no capacity to oppress LGBT aces or cishet aces. Terms "allosexual" group us with our oppressors on a front we do not have privilege on. You might balk and go "Doesn't cis do that with cis men and cis women who they oppress!" And the answer is NO. Cis women have privilege over trans men and trans women on the basis of their cisness--they benefit from being cis, even if they do not benefit from being women. LGBT people who experience sexual attraction do not have privilege over cishet aces or LGBT aces. It is not comparable.

And the list goes on.

If you insist children can be asexual because "OMG they can be gay right???" realize that children do NOT feel sexual attraction, therefore it's harmful to classify them as sexual and non-sexual and that is not comparable to children being gay or bisexual, since kids can still have crushes without it having anything to do with sexual feelings.

Do you want to go into LGBT spaces to talk about your experiences as a bisexual or derail meetings to talk about your lack of sexual attraction? LGBT people go into LGBT spaces to talk about LGBT issues, not how you feel sexually.

But that isn't to say your asexuality is a complete nonstarter in LGBT spaces.

You're welcome to talk about the combination of being bisexual and ace makes it even harder to date and find an accepting partner. You can talk about how being ace affected realizing you were bisexual.

Just do these things while thinking about how you say it affects people who are struggling or have struggled with accepting their sexual desires. Don't make sex is gross jokes. Don't insist cishets are LGBT or that your asexuality is "queer" or "LGBT enough."

None of this should be hard. Just be respectful. You're LGBT and you're "bisexual enough" for LGBT spaces. You aren't immediately an enemy to LGBT safety. You just gotta be aware that the ace community is knee deep in rhetoric that can be harmful to LGBT people and make sure you don’t perpetuate that harm. Including to yourself!

[redysetdare]

As another non-split aroace, you're so correct for saying that we're treated as the punching bags of both aro and ace communities. Like if y'all can accept and support straight aros and aces but are hostile towards aroaces, you're just aphobic. Yes even if you're aro/ace yourself. Aro spaces nowadays literally have the same attitude towards aroaces that exclusionists used to have towards asexuals, that we're weird freaks bringing purity culture into their "safe" communities just by existing and therefore need to be pushed out. And ace spaces still act like we're the bad guys and need to be pushed out of their "safe" communities because we can't romantically love other people, which makes us heartless monsters apparently. It's just exhausting. I've never seen aroaces being so hostile towards non-ace aros and non-aro aces, we're always trying to uplift their voices and bring awareness to their issues. But the moment we try to talk about our own issues in aromantic or asexual spaces we're told to shut up and let them speak over us because we somehow have it better than them. Not to mention the pressure to split your experiences into aro vs ace and prioritise one part of your identity over the other if you want to be taken seriously in those spaces. Like sorry but for some of us our aroaceness is interwined not split. But we're still aros and aces, still a part of your community. Stop trying to push us out of our own communities on the basis of aphobic stereotypes.

Honestly I've been kinda biting my tongue on it for a while because I understand why Aro and Ace ppl have been trying to separate the communities. it can be frustrating to constantly be paired with an identity that you don't relate to - but i feel like so many ppl have taken it way to far. They've taken the relatively understandable stance of "Aromantic and Asexual are not the same identity" and pushed it to the extreme of "Aro and Ace are so completely different they have nothing in common and NO overlap" and the worst part is i don't think anyone has particularly noticed.

Idk I was most active in the aro and ace communities when we still kinda shared communities. the idea that aro and ace were separate was still a thing (hell, aroaces were the ones helping to push that distinction. we wanted people to recognize our aro identities too, yknow.) but we recognized the overlap and similarities and supported each other... now it just feels like im seeing post after post reminding people not every aro or ace person is aroace and that people shouldt tag aro posts as ace and vice versa and "no ace people cant relate to aro experiences" "no aro people cant relate to ace experiences" because "They are so different they are completely not the same and don't have any overlapping problems at all" and as an aroace it sucks!

it sucks feeling forgotten in my own communities.

It's almost feeling like they are blaming us for there being this idea that people are are Ace must also be aro and people who are aro must also be ace. Like they know they cant get mad at the allos so they get mad at aroaces and act like we are the reason allos think this way. It's like aroaceness is only brought up to talk about how "Not everyone is aroace" or "aroace characters are so much more prevalent in media (Proceeds to only talk about ace characters)" or how aroace ppl must have an identity that means more to them - how their aro or ace identity must be more important or effect them more because they can't possibly intertwined and overlap and "hey you tagged your post with aro and ace tags but obviously its only about aromanticism/only about asexuality so remove some of those tags because it's annoying me" or worse I see aromantics being acephobic or asexuals being arophobic and it's like.... where do i fit in?

people think aroace ppl ran both communities as 1 community and they say it was bad and that we need to separate - but from my perspective it was two communities who worked together. the only difference now is that aroace ppl are getting pushed to the side. thrown under the bus. "you dont need rep you have tons of rep. society loves giving aroace rep!" and "not everyone is aroace. you're experience isn't universal and so you shouldn't talk about it" Aroace voices just got smaller. we got quieter. because our own communities decided we were privileged. we were more accepted than they were. or worse that we were actually the real freaks for not feeling both sexual and romantic attraction. we weren't palatable enough - there was nothing that could be used to normalize us. and besides, it was easier to just only fight for one set of rights, right?

and part of me understands it. it sucks. it sucks to always be a footnote. but guess what - aro and aces and aroaces are footnotes of the queer community. we're stuck here together and instead we're fighting over who's the more important footnote. we are all in the same boat and we're acting like we're not and trying to sink the ship forgetting we're all on it together.