#''you just hate him bc you're racist!!'' no i hate him bc he's a sexist asshole. and i hate you for implying that being a sexist asshole

[sage-nebula]

The amount of times this jackass negs her is off the charts. Like this isn't even the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. I remember being okay with this ship when I first played T&T, but I can tell you with certainty I fucking hate it now.

[chaoticbiguysblog]

I feel like initially most people were on the same page about Tommy Kinnard, they were like ok let's see where it goes and we got Bi Buck!! Like, in April, I was on top of the world bc of Bi Buck, and I was so excited for him and eager to see where it goes, even the ones who didn't want him for Buck from the start were indifferent to him.

But I feel like the divide and the ship wars intensified was when people started using the "healthy male friendship" and "why can't two men just be friends" argument against Buddie, we have hundreds, if not thousands of those in pop culture and homophobes often use this argument against lgbt rep, so to see a group, some if not most of which are queer themselves use the same argument is off putting.

Then, whether you're his fan or a hater, you gotta agree that Tommy's character is a blank slate, he's not been given much to do, besides a few moments, and a significant part of that is him being racist and sexist to two fan favourite characters: Chim and Hen respectively (similarly people disliked Taylor for what she did to Bobby, the redemption and forgiveness before she started dating Buck was implied but it's not enough). Other than that he doesn't have a lot of qualities. And what happens is fans project a lot of things on him. What made me abandon the Tevan ship was people "stealing" Eddie's character traits and projecting it onto Tommy, while labelling him a terrible mentally insane father who uses Buck for his own gain, yada yada yada. And I love Buck and Eddie equally, so to me that was irritating.

Also, since he doesn't have many character traits, his lines, which are intended as sassy can come off as him being a dismissive and condescending dick.

Then for the off screen side of things, we were constantly told Buck is straight, by the actors and the showrunner but everyone was like eh whatever, and then our headcannons were proven right, but suddenly theorising about Eddie and that a lot of queer people including myself identify with him is looked down on if not straight up mocked, and that the canon storylines are the only ones that matter have made the fandom a bit toxic.

Buddies are often accused of blindly hating on Tommy, that he's hated only bc he's not the guy we wanted Buck to kiss, so I feel like I should lay it out as to why a lot of us went from being indifferent or open to the guy to straight up hating him.

[aydaptic]

Hi there! Just passing by to ramble about how much I love your take on Gavin since he's also my favorite non-playable character in the game.

(Connor is my fave playable character ((predictable, ig?)) and I know [read it somewhere in your post, at least] you're not very fond of him, and that's okay.)

I know Gavin may not be everyone's favorite, but I just love how you see him differently regardless of what people say. I'm always relieved to read all your posts about him because it makes me feel like I'm crazy for even liking him while others are very against him.

I think some people are just conditioned to hate him instantaneously for being antagonistic towards Connor and Hank. And I think he has a good reason for it too. He's not a saint and I guess it's fine to like a character who's a bit cocky and with a lot of flaws.

But you had to admit that despite how seemingly shallow he is in the game, he does show a bit of his character upon extensive scrutiny and that's the beauty of what you're doing. I'll be reading (quietly) more of your opinions about this lovable jerk and I'll be loving every bit of it. ❤️❤️❤️

Hi :)

I'm glad to hear that. The toxicity/vitriol towards Gav has always made me concerned for humanity. It proves that so many ppl are incapable of thinking logically instead of emotionally. Where are their empathy? Likes/dislikes are subjective, but to say he's "nothing but a bad guy" and/or "has no redeemable qualities" are such brain-dead takes.

Despite his unpleasant attitude, Gav has every right to be canonically concerned about androids, and he has every right to believe they're not alive. It's logical. The guy doesn't have the insider knowledge that we, as players, do. Gav's not a psychic.

I love the gameplay of Con -- the detective aspect -- as well as his journey... but his awkward + overtly positive + doormat personality type annoys the shit out of me, lol. I'm Team Gavin Reed™ in disliking Con. Kudos to you for having enough intelligence to put aside your love for him and recognize that Gav has a point.

These are the reasons I've seen ppl hate Gav for:

some are too blinded by their love for Con and/or Hank (as you say)

some are narcissistic enough to feel entitled to their personal favorite characters having more fandom content (...and thus they take it out on fandom favorites)

some feel envious that Gav has the charisma to get away with being a dick (...and they aren't capable of doing the same bc they don't have charisma)

some try to take some BS moral high ground (...and fail)

some see parts of themselves in Gav and thus desperately try to convince others that, "I'm not like him!" (...and funnily enough, every Gav hater I've interacted with has proven themselves to be worse ppl than he is -- so yeah, they're not like him, they're worse)

some ppl are envious that Gav is better/more beloved than them and/or their favorite characters

some ppl hate white ppl (racists)

some ppl hate men (sexists/misandrists)

some ppl ignore the lead writer's statement that "the game is about androids and not race" so they can make it a modern-day political issue, and get brownie points saying stuff like "androids are real-life POCs meaning anyone who dislikes them is racist," bc they can't separate fiction from reality (...and thus they have the brain-dead take that Gav is "racist." I don't like AI such as ChatGPT taking jobs. Does that make me a racist, too?)

some ppl claim to hate Gav just bc it's popular (pack mentality)

some ppl just wanna create drama

some ppl are so starved for attention that they claim to hate him "just bc"

some ppl lack empathy (...and thus they don't understand what losing a job you love is like -- especially to someone who was just programmed to be better than you -- when you worked your ass off for decades getting said job)

some ppl didn't pay attention (...and thus they don't know that Gav had every right to step in both in The Interrogation and Last Chance, Connor bc Con was literally breaking the law)

some ppl see the world as black and white meaning they only think in extremes (...and are incapable of seeing the greys/finding balance)

some ppl are specifically looking to get triggered and thus bring up completely unrelated topics like "misogyny" bc god forbid you like Gav and not North even when they're completely different ppl (...and it's hypocritical that they protect North for hating humans, while at the same time, cursing Gav out for hating androids -- I don't go around with the false claim that, "you're sexist/misandrist for liking North and not Gav" bc I'm not an idiot)

That hatred is all based on emotions instead of rational thought.

"He's a dick!" So is Hank, North, and Con can be. "They have good reasons for it!" So has Gav. These ppl are in no position to decide who's 'the most' affected/traumatized, etc. bc we all react differently. Some are more distraught by their pet dying than a parent. That doesn't make their pain any less real.

Disliking him is fine, but don't give BS moral reasons for doing so. Sometimes we just don't vibe with a person/character and that's perfectly fine. Not vibing with someone, however, isn't hatred. It's apathy. Ppl who are just "meh" about him and don't spout BS excuses are valid.

[taylortruther]

Honestly the wild thing to me is that, I don’t think it excuses any of the shitty things he’s said, etc, but outside of this stupid fucking “asshole era” (and even during it) matty has made WAY more progressive leftish (not leftist, he’s still a rich white man) statements than taylor has. Loudly and in every country he’s been in, naming names and honestly half their songs are like very ~~~meta and political (almost to the point of being annoying! I say this as a music fan, not a person fan, bc as we all do know or at least Should know here, that’s dicey!) it’s just. Interesting idk. He says lots of things ppl wish taylor would say and also things nobody should say. Idek how to end this lol just curious on your thoughts i guess

yeah i think one of the 'interesting' things about this is that matty is very outspoken and has (apparently) been openly left politically but the side-effect of outspokenness is that he says all the dumb, racist, sexist, bigoted shit he believes too. (or, he doesn't believe it, but he doesn't do a good enough job indicating it's a bit, if that's what you think.) and those opinions have now gotten a much larger audience because of this scandal.

it's a philosophical argument too. can you truly be a leftist if you're a bigot? that's so abstract. but people can do good things for people while also being rancid as fuck in other parts of their lives. that's the challenge of the human experience!

one way i look at it is: if a thousand people hear matty say a politically "left" thing, and know he hates trump and whatnot, that's great. but if ten thousand have now heard him say he jerks off to black women being brutalized... that's, uh, very bad.

unfortunately life is not a points system, so we don't have matty's social impact "score." these are just more thought exercises to figure out how you feel about the situation, i guess.

[penny-anna]

LMAO yeah like. u guys know i love LOTR but it's grossly racist. and it's not something you can just ignore either bcos it's like right down the worldbuilding. 😬 if we're gonna play 'you shouldn't be a fan of anything that has racism in it' LOTR should be one of the first to go.

anyway just gonna stick these tags on here to avoid reblogging this post over n over:

@canutegoodman #diana wynne jones also tracks pretty misogynistic #women with power tend to be evil #and their evil involves shit like being good looking in a fake way #and manipulating men with their evil lady wiles #there's also the book where the main boy's mother is a hypocritical feminist parody #which is the only mention of feminism in her children's work afaik #and some of the details of her books just aged really badly #like when chrestomanci hits cat but we're ultimately meant to consider him a cool dude?#when he hit a child in the face four times? #while his buddy beats a little girl on the ass with a shoe? #like she is a very evil little girl but that just leads back to the misogyny lol #part of what makes it so jarring is that charmed life could otherwise be written today #not dated at all except for a very 1977 take on child beating #anyway ppl should rec her books bc they tend to be fun and interesting fantasy stories #not bc she has impeachable morals

hm yeah. between its massive popularity and JKR's uhh fall from grace HP has had so much scrutiny and its so easy to find people tearing apart every detail of it that they find objectionable and no-one is really doing that with other similar series.

& i agree that if you want a new fantasy series to fill the boy wizard shaped hole HP has left in your life then Chrestomanci is a good bet!! but bcos its author isn't currently spearheading a hate movement not bcos the text itself is more progressive.

@cheeseanonioncrisps #this is how i feel about le guin #ppl who want her to be the Better More Progressive JKR always start by recommending earthsea #and like…#i always wonder how long it's been since they read it #because that book is just so fucking sexist #like le guin herself admitted it later on #and said that she'd had a lot of internalised misogyny going on when she wrote it #so i don't consider it a negative reflection of her overall character #but i wish ppl would stop acting like it's the BEST fantasy story ever

YEAH like i'm reluctant to hold the sexism in her early work again Le Guin too much bcos she did grow & change but if you're looking for a more progressive boy wizard series to give to your kids or something i don't think Earthsea is it either.

ANYWAY my point here is: recommending other similar works that don't have JKR's specific Miasma on them, fine 👍; unilaterally declaring other works classic fantasy works 'more progressive', maybe don't.

seeing ppl holding up Diana Wynne Jones as a more progressive alternative to JKR when u know the Terrible Secret (that 1 instance of egregious homophobia) but there's no point bringing it up bcos it's in 1 single instance in a book that's out of print so who gives a shit but also like. you know.

[tiny-katara]

Imigine shipping Zutara, the racist and offensive ship in the whole show. Out of any ship you piked Zutara. Zukka is right there nd so is Kataang. Both of the mhad such more devolopment ad cemistry. fuk u <3

anon, i'm worried you might need a beta for your asks. this is a disaster.

i really don't understand how zutara is racist but zukka isn't??? i like zukka just fine and you're more than welcome to go apeshit for it, but your argument really doesn't make any sense. my bestie @burst-of-iridescent has already discussed it here and her post is very thorough. i encourage you to read through it.

as for saying kata/ang had more chemistry/cemistry, i really have to ask what you were on. i suppose it is all up to interpretation, but the foundation of ka is that you don't know if katara has feelings for him or not. if there's chemistry between them, it should follow them and we should see a fairly linear change in development in their relationship, but we don't.

on top of that, i personally fail to see how a boy expecting the girl to fall for him simply bc he deserves her and is the hero. that's gross. it's a sexist trope and it genuinely makes me uncomfortable.

as far as zukka goes, i personally don't like as much but they're a fun pair. they didn't have any romantic chemistry in the show as far as i saw and a lot would have to be reworked to make them feel grounded within the show. zukka is a lovely ship, but it's a fanon ship. unfortunately, we weren't lucky enough to get that kind of representation within the show. zutara is technically a fanon ship as well. both have basis in canon, but are only alive because of fanon.

but good god anon you can't even spell an insult correctly. if you're going to send more unwarranted hate asks, at least have someone read through it. maybe they'll have enough common sense to tell you it's a very bizarre thing to waste your time on and that you should focus on actually making enjoyable zukka content. that's what i'd recommend<3

[roostertuftart]

This meta was sent to me during a argument, and while disagreeing with this opinion, I couldn't line up my thought to why. I want to hear ur opinion on this since you're a Kyle fan like OP and has a lot of meta posts about him. thank u for reading this post and sorry for my bad english! https://curiouscat.live/ginzura/post/1191543937

First of all, no need to apologize for your English, and it’s perfectly legible regardless! I’m going to paste the OP’s exact words here because I don’t know exactly how CuriousCat works and I don’t want to original text to get deleted so no one can see what exactly I’m arguing against, so here it is below: 

Ask: What do u think about those ppl who say  shipping kyman is bad bc you’re shipping a jew with a nazi 🧐

Answer: good question! if people really believe that then i can't blame them for not wanting to have anything to do with kyman, however my interpretation is different. buckle up cause this is gonna get kinda long though....

so first of all, cartman is without a doubt, a bigoted person. he's racist, he's classist, he's shown signs of being sexist too (though nowhere as bad as butters lol), etc. the thing is, his anti semitic remarks towards kyle for being a jewish person feel different than his other very backwards beliefs. i'll expand on this. 

take for example the way he treats token, often alluding to the fact he's black, applying stereotypes to him and commenting stuff such as 'your people'. all this because token is black, nothing to do with token's personality or hobbies, it's just because token is a black person. when he shot token it wasn't because token did something to him, it was because token was a black person, and therefore, a threat to him, a white person. with this we can assume that the first thing cartman notes about token is his ethnicity above all else. he doesn't see him as a person but just part of a minority he looks down upon.

now let's address his relationship with kyle. he belittles kyle, calls him a 'goddamn jew', has threatened his life, etc. to the naked eye you would think it's exactly the same to what he does to token but that's where i disagree. he doesn't hate kyle for being jewish, he hates kyle for BEING kyle. is it cause kyle is smarter than him? maybe. is it cause kyle makes has things he doesn't have? maybe. but the point is that kyle's very existence annoys cartman so he has to put him down and the most obvious thing he could possibly remark about kyle is the fact that he's jewish because it's a low hanging fruit. but that's not the only thing cartman has had issue with concerning kyle. cartman tried to make people turn against gingers and emphasized that daywalkers were the worst type. who is a daywalker? kyle, of course. when he found out kyle was partly new jerseyite, he was against that too. he just tries to single out kyle as a menace as soon as he has an excuse for it. and that's why i don't actually think he's a nazi as much as he's a big fucking dick with an unhealthy obsession for kyle. i'm convinced that if kyle wasn't jewish, cartman would still find an excuse to get on his case

furthermore, and this is something that escapes fans a lot, cartman has pretty much stopped calling kyle 'jew' for quite some time now. the development started in s19 where he promised he wouldn't anymore after getting the shit beat out of him by pc principal. he still did in the ninjas episode, same season, but ever since that habit has died. so, in any case, i think cartman is mellowing out…

---

I’m not sure if this is the answer you’re looking for, but honestly, even as someone who really isn’t super fond of both-sided Kyman myself, I kind of agree with a lot of this take and I have for a while, though I don’t think it’s all because of Kyle either. 

Cartman’s feelings towards Judaism seem extremely complicated to me, ranging from fetishizing the religion to outright hating it, and I think in large part this all does come down to his obsession with Kyle. Whether you believe the theory that Cartman is secretly in love with Kyle or not, it’s undeniable that he is obsessed with him and getting his attention. Maybe even having the envy of wanting to be like him in some aspects. 

I’m not going to go into a deepdive into this because I’m not the most well versed about Cartman’s character as a whole, but I can go over how Cartman’s feelings towards Kyle and Judaism seem to work. 

To start off, to say that his anti-semitism entirely comes down to how he feels about Kyle isn’t really true either. In early seasons, Cartman is already spouting out some pretty nasty stuff at Kyle about him being Jewish, and I would argue that this far back, he didn’t yet really hate Kyle or have any real obsession towards him. Not moreso than the other boys anyway- In fact, he even claims to hate Kenny the most, and there seems to be a genuine effort on his part to be liked by Stan and Kyle who tend to pick on him or show their outright hatred towards him- That’s not to say Cartman isn’t an asshole himself, but that seems like how he is towards everyone- He genuinely seems to crave their attention though, especially in episodes like Prehistoric Iceman. We’ve also seen that Liane seemed to have a pretty bad influence on Cartman at this time, teaching him some fairly bigoted shit. It feels likely to me that Liane probably had some if not full influence on Cartman’s opinion on Jews at this time, as she probably did with everything else he believes, leading to his general bigotry towards most minorities that he still holds today. 

What I agree with OP about though is that if Kyle had not been Jewish, Cartman would not be so intent on his anti semitism. I still believe he would probably be in the same way he is racist towards black people like Tolkien, but I can’t see him being nearly as obsessed with it, nor do I think he would fetishize it as much as he sometimes does. Cartman’s hatred of Jewish people in large part is because of Kyle, not the other way around. Of course, this isn’t at all Kyle’s fault and is still extremely egregious on Cartman’s part, but I think it’s important in meta discussions of how Cartman thinks and feels towards Kyle. 

One thing in OP’s post that does bother me however is the last part- Cartman “mellowing out”. I really don’t like the implications that Cartman’s antisemitism becoming more subtle is the equivalent to it being less, or even an improvement on Cartman’s behalf. Like, I do agree that he’s a child who has had a lot of bad influences and that he’s not beyond outgrowing his bigotry, but the show itself hasn’t really given us that just because Cartman doesn’t call Kyle “jew (derogatory)” anymore. We can’t get into his head obviously and see exactly what he thinks of Jewish people now but it’s pretty clear to me that he still holds a lot of antisemitic values and likes to torment Kyle in targeted ways because he’s Jewish. 

Season 21 and the first episode of season 23 are pretty obvious signs of that. In S21Ep7, he straight up told Heidi conspiracy theories about Jewish people and basically convinced her that Kyle has been manipulating her simply because he’s Jewish, as well as even going as far as teaching her that Jewish people are always “trying to get ahead of everyone else”. This isn’t some micro aggression he accidentally dropped despite showing vast improvement most of the time, this is extreme Nazi rhetoric, and it’s just as dangerous and damaging as the shit he was saying before Season 19. In S23Ep1, Cartman uses ICE to have Kyle’s family separated and placed in detention facilities in an extremely targeted act of revenge. He knows what he’s doing, and it’s obvious. He’s not stupid, and I don’t know how anyone can fall for his very clearly fake act in the episode that he somehow suddenly forgot Kyle was Jewish and that this situation would be something Kyle would be extra sensitive to. I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt that OP just forgot about these episodes but this is NOT an improvement in his behavior. It’s just more subtle and manipulative on his part which is disturbing and dangerous in its own right.

And then to talk about Cartman in the recent specials, I think there’s a strong argument for his behavior towards Judaism just seeming really fetishistic and even disingenuous, so even if his hatred isn’t there he’s still pretty antisemitic. 

So yeah, TL;DR, Cartman’s antisemitism seems to mostly revolve around his hatred/obsession with Kyle and he has not mellowed out in any positive ways since Season 19. 

[carletes]

I know we are on a carlando lockdown atm for obvious reasons, but! ever since you made that post about sewis angst, let me tell you I started Thinking - capital T. literally on my notes app writing this. ngl i suck at writing fr.

let's begin...both of being young in the sport which implies a lot of just being young not fully formed people. They just want to go fast ok..."who's this other kid? ok maybe hes nice...ANYWAY...i get to race!!!!!!"

Then Seb starts winning! and like he has his fun ok - do they get together in 2010-11? possibly... once they were both drunk (were they tho??)- it was HOT + unresolved gay feelings for the both of them - they dont think about it for years until...well they do. They never talk about it, is this their first time with a boy? meh I dont think so, still theyre both young experience is limited for the both of them.

But going back to evil child seb, he is immature and not the best at communicating...the whole webber teammate competitiveness, like a bit of a hothead after all. He goes out, he experiences things, he figures his shit out and is relatively chill about it, he can keep it lowkey. Of course, sprinkle some tension of them seeing the other pick someone up at like idk a party, theyre like "uh good for them" but still they LOOK.

2015 happens and years have passed - seb has matured a lil bit, learnt to be professionally mature and maybe more secure in himself, but also he has never had to undergo all the racist abuse LH always had to face - so like liking guys doesnt feels as much as a freak out. + got hurt a little less by people around him?

Seb goes to ferrari in 2016 and LH keeps winning, but! nico...childhood friends turned maybe lovers around 2015 turned enemies. Personally I wont pretend I know what it feels like to be the only black person in a sport, where you're constantly pushing back against undeserved hate - because well Im not a poc so I have 0 knowledge of that nor I feel comfortable pretending that i can imagine it ??? idk how that would factor into lh growth as an individual. But being black and gay? some internalised homophobia must happen somewhere when you're competing in the most sexist of sports( it is sadly).

anyway, the point is...the whole rosberg drama (i hate that anti vaxxer fuck that guy frankly) happens. see THAT interview where lewis almost looks embarrassed of the things nico is saying about seb feeling bad his teammate didnt finish the race...bc well maybe he has got to know seb a bit better and sue him he likes the guy, he respects him and admires him, therefore the "not all of us think like this". They are not romantic feelings he has for him, the relationship with nico and the championship run definitely are definitely enough for him to not have just the mental capacity to even consider that. But, he does feel connected to seb as a person, bc they've both winners ya know - seb in 2016 still had more championships than lewis. So like nico publicly pulling out all the dirty laundry (is this even an english figure of speech?idk) for the world AND seb to see is humiliating. Also, because he did play into all the mind games and over the top macho bs rosberg pulled that year...and that maybe says something about himself just as much as it does for rosberg. for example idk spain 2016 (idk the chronological order between that interview and the spain gp but oh well this is fantasy anyway its doesnt matter). seb being seb sees this, but still they're professionals and competitors! so he makes a joke about it, keeps it not personal bc wtf?! we are f live doing media, leave me out of your pettiness. Still he is very aware of how f up the dynamic is between the 2, say when he talks to lewis pre races and nico is never mentioned - lewis isnt easy to see through but maybe some times he is (poetic description of lewis staring into the void looking very pensive, seb is looking platonically ty very much).

Say towards the end of the season lh and nico stop being intimately involved, things arent good and lh really needs less of whatever the f is going on there.( Lh being more involved in social matters, more outspoken has played a part so far - or at least it should be mentioned, bc you know lewis too did say some ignorant stuff at some point, changing that shows growth and a more open mind...he grows more serene with the idea of being who he is).

2017 and 2018 seb and lewis are both championships contenders, they get together eventually- end of the 2018 season?you choose. But maybe say there's a whole episode about seb showing basic human decency and being able to separate the on track competition from their off track relationship and lewis going "oh". and then they get together again, the sex is still very much HOT, but it just...isnt done with the intention of hurting the other (aftercare happens!) and then lewis goes "OH". Still, because they're still men and obtuse at that they keep it very casual, but they're both clearly falling for one another (i hate having seb being the one pining after lewis during his early ferrari years- let my boy have his love life while those other 2 destroy each other).

ferrari sucks in this universe too, so like seb has to deal with that, bc disappointment is hard to take for so long. Lewis is there, just honestly trying his best, because he has never had to reconcile him winning with also being there and good for someone he's involved with. lewis doesnt know if hes able to step it up...sebastian deserves the best! whilist seb is there being like why is he even there if every weekend im miserable? followed by a misunderstanding about lewis opening up about nico and snapping at seb bc he feels vulnerable. They're a bit distant for like idk a couple of moths, after all this isnt a relationship is it??? we are being adults about this and not acknowledging any of our feelings.

by 2020 they go on winter break with no plans of seeing each other during those months but then one or the other shows up in monaco/switzerland being like "ive never been casual about this like ever pls be my boyfriend? 🫣🫣"and then the other is ":) of course im absolutely not normal about you either:) " 👨🏼‍❤️‍💋‍👨🏾

ty for coming to worst ted talk ever conceived,prolly conveyed 20% of the angst and feelings i was trying to convey but oh well...im going to sleep. Also, hope tumblr staff wakes the f up :) cheers!

holy shit. presented without comment.

ok maybe one comment: i read this last night while i was half asleep and now i'm reading it in the morning and i'm STILL emotional algjakljga I'M ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL ABOUT YOU how is this so romantic LMAO

[weirwoodking]

hi i was wondering if you would be interested in making a meta on the differences between show!sansa and book!sansa bc i know they changed a lot of her storyline but i don't understand why everyone hates on sophie turner? it can be short or inexistent meta if you're not up to it but i would be very interested to know what you have to say

I mean, the differences between the two are pretty simple. After season 4, D&D decided to cut Sansa’s book storyline, and replaced it with their own rewrite. This affected the plots of multiple characters, particularly Show!Theon’s and Show!Jon’s, but most of all, Show!Sansa’s, obviously. George himself has spoken on how much he hated what the show did with Sansa. He said in 2014 that he had “no idea what they were doing with Sansa or where they’re taking her storyline.”

I could go episode by episode and point out everything that’s wrong or is out of character, but it’s kind of useless. The show did not adapt books 4 & 5, it’s as simple as that, everything is different and feels like it’s out of character. For the first 4 seasons, I thought that Sansa’s story was handled fine (I haven’t watched GOT seasons 1-4 in over 4 years, so my memory is a bit foggy on the specifics tho). Sophie Turner isn’t exactly how I picture Sansa to look, but her acting was fantastic, especially for someone so young and for her first television role.

I personally haven’t seen people “hating on Sophie Turner”, but I’m not involved in the GOT side of tumblr, only the ASOIAF side, so I don’t see people talk about the actors that much. I do know that there are people in fandom (not just in the GOT fandom but in fandom in general) who will conflate actors with their characters. I have seen some toxic Show!Sansa stans do this with Show!Dany and Emilia Clarke (mostly last year). It seems to be more of a problem with female characters and actresses (‘cause sexism), and I think it’s really creepy and disturbing. Sophie Turner is not Sansa, so if anyone is “hating on her” because they didn’t like how the show changed Sansa’s story, that’s really fucked up. I don’t know much about the GOT cast, actually, I rarely watched interviews or behind-the-scenes videos. I don’t know if Sophie Turner has said that she likes the show’s ending or something like that, so if that was the case I could see people being critical of her opinion. But even if she did like the ending of the show and the way the writers changed her character after season 4, I still don’t think you should hate on an actor for that. Because the actors didn’t make the show, the showrunners did. It’s not on the actors to get everything right about their characters, it’s on the writers and directors to tell them the story and guide them through their acting. I don’t blame the actors for anything about GOT (no one should), I blame the writers.

What I find is the biggest problem about post-season 4 Sansa is how little regard they had for her character, while simultaneously claiming she was their favorite. I believe their exact quote was “Sansa was the character we cared about more than anyone”. Okay… then why did you cut her storyline? I feel like their whole “she’s our favorite character” act was more to try to defend against the criticism of the cutting of her storyline. What bothers me most is how they just casually threw her into the Ramsay plotline without thinking at all about what that meant. If you’re going to have one of the main characters of the show get serially raped, you need to think about what you’re doing and how to handle that horrific situation. In the books, the Jeyne Poole storyline is handled very carefully. The acts committed by Ramsay against Jeyne and Theon are never really shown, only implied, alluded to, or very briefly described. The show, on the other hand, explicitly showed Theon’s torture scenes, and made Ramsay a much bigger character in seasons 5 & 6 than he is in the books. I feel like they just used him for shock value, because so much of Game of Thrones revolved around shock value and in-the-moment reactions. I think they just saw Ramsay as a character they could turn into Joffrey 2.0, which is why they put Sansa with him. They didn’t care to follow Sansa’s book arc, they just wanted to continue the whole “caged-bird” thing with her, for shock value.

And to deflect against criticism, that’s why they made her so smart and powerful in the final few seasons. There’s next-to-no build up, no character development, no focus on her growth, the show just tells us that Sansa is the smartest character, and the audience is expected to agree. Because D&D did not care about showing her development. There’s a line in season 7, when Sansa and Arya kill Littlefinger, where Sansa says “thank you for all of your lessons, Lord Baelish.” And that immediately stuck out to me, because that sounds like something Book!Sansa would say. The show cut out Sansa’s Vale storyline, where she spends much more time with Littlefinger, and so… what “lessons” is Show!Sansa referring to here? They didn’t spend a lot of time together in the show. I do think that Sansa will defeat Littlefinger in the books, so that line makes sense for Book!Sansa.

What they did was cut Sansa’s storyline, throw her into a horrific situation that they used for shock value, and then expected to be praised when they made her a “girlboss” later on. They basically said “hey, we know we essentially erased this character’s arc and development, but at least we did a feminism, right?” And that’s what really pisses me off. The blatant disregard for female characters, then saying “no, we do care about them! Believe us!”

Lindsay Ellis has a really good video called “Woke Disney” that touches on this. Basically, she talks about how Disney’s recent live action remakes tend to make each of the princesses a “#girlboss” in a very corporate, fake-feminist manner that is very easy to see right through. (I recommend just watching the video, she goes more in-depth into the subject.)

A similar thing occurred with GOT (the show only had one female writer after season 4, by the way, who was a staff writer for season 8. And before that, only 4 episodes were written by a woman). D&D wrote a lot of problematic, misogynistic, homophobic, and racist things. Then they tried to cover that up with (to use a line from Ms. Ellis) a coat of #girlboss paint. For example, I remember after s8e3 (when Arya killed the Night King) came out, that was when the big criticism for season 8 really started. People saw how bad the writing of that episode was, and how ridiculous and anti-climactic it all felt. However, when people criticized the manner in which the Night King was killed (i.e. saying that it would have made more narrative sense for Jon to do it instead of Arya), there was another group of people who called that criticism sexist. “That’s sexist! You’re just upset that a girl did it instead of a guy!” Which… ugh... do I need to explain how idiotic that line of reasoning is?

And that’s kind of how the HBO show tried to get away with its misogyny, not just the misogyny of Dany’s ending, but of the whole show in general. “Look, we can’t be misogynistic, we had Arya kill the Night King! Look, we can’t be misogynistic, we had Sansa become a #girlboss!” Bullshit, you’re just trying to hide your sexism and bad writing behind a facade of fake feminism.

… *sigh* ...

Anyway, nothing but love for Book!Sansa, and nothing but hate for the writers of Game of Thrones. I hate how the show turned Sansa into a very polarizing character, when she shouldn’t be. None of the child characters of ASOIAF should be polarizing, they’re children for fucks sake.

I’m very excited to see where GRRM takes Sansa’s character in TWOW, I feel like she’s got an awesome journey coming up (hopefully involving her discovering her skinchanging powers, taking down Littlefinger, and heading north for home). 

Uh, wow, this got really long… and I’m exhausted after thinking about the sh*w that much. Here, as a treat for reading all the way down to the bottom, have a Sansa WIP drawing that I haven’t finished yet:

[budugaapologist]

bitch you really think you wanna go here with me?? over a meme???? first of all, i don't even like haytham's mike rowe with a pony tail lookin ass, i just put him in memes bc if i dont one of yall is like "oh but where's my templar dad uwu". also, i make this shit in literal minutes and tbh?? dont really care where i put some of the characters since im never gonna enjoy shay or haytham after adéwalé's death in rogue, who of all the people in ac should not of been murdered by some white boy.

and the "smart" end of the spectrum?? uhhh can ya read??? it says "watches the dumbasses argue" not "these are the smart ones" ya can take it as i did, and say "oh haytham is just there watching", or just be a pessimistic shit and assume that i think people who support genocide are 'smart'.

it's really sad that you're trying to start shit with someone you don't know over memes i make just so this fandom can have something to laugh about instead of dealing with people like you who just wanna start drama for nothing, ya really could just ignore my stuff if you hate my content so much.

but yeah if you really want to get my 'views on folks' maybe actually look into my opinions on the characters or actually ASK ME about them instead of being petty and @ ing me. also don't read a meme like it's a fucking biography on the maker, or at the very least understand that different people can interpret things in different ways and not just assume the worst about someone.

rant aside (i wrote this after the tags so im still mad in them so fair warning for that i guess) // anyway i just want you to know that im sorry my meme upset you, it really wasnt my intention as i didnt mean to say the last category as 'smart', if i had henry and a few others would've been there instead (who is in the dumb category as i meant it in the way he flirts and that he's a little goofy). next time just go to my ask box about this kind of stuff please, i don't know how you drew that i was a 'racist trump supporter' from this but if it makes you feel better i'm not a trump supporter and i do my best to stay in my lane and not say anything racist, sexist, etc, this is just an example of me simply not caring enough about haytham's character to look into his political views