#“who will nancy end up with?” “will mike and will confess their feelings?” “what about max and lucas-” there are human eating monsters and

[soupinaboot]

Sometimes I forget that Stranger Things is like a sci-fi horror fantasy and not a romance drama

[username0204]

If Byler isn't endgame, I'd assume this has to have happened at some point during a ST crew meeting after S4 dropped:

writers: *storm into the room* WTF guys?! What have you done?! *confused looks* set designers: What do you mean? writers: What do we mean?! Ok, we'll start with you. Why the hell does Mike have a "one way" sign pointing to a closet in his bedroom? People might think he's gay! set designers: Oh, sorry.. were we not supposed to give it away yet? writers: HE'S NOT GAY!! composers: He's not? Well the script and the plot kinda implied it tbh... So what's up with that fight at Rink-O-Mania? Mike being so defensive seemed kinda gay, so we titled the track "In the closet" - smart right? writers: You WHAT?! No, it was supposed to be just 2 platonic bros you know... growing apart a little. He wasn't supposed to be defensive! Finn: No? Oh... I guess I just assumed that since Mike didn't hug Will at the airport and was so dramatic to call their few months apart a year that there is more to it. writers: What do you mean? Finn: Yeah, In the script it says that it was like a few months but in my dialog Mike says it's been a year so... I thought it was on purpose?

writers: Oh fuck... We forgot to change that... shit. Millie: Wait, so if Mike isn't gay then why he can't say he loves El? Isn't that why Nancy and Steve broke up? I already told one interviewer that Mike doesn't love her the way she wants to be loved... I tried to be cryptic though... writers: You did WHAT?! No, no, he just isn't good with words, you know? Shit, we forgot about that Nancy plot... But it's different, ok?! At the end he has this beautiful love confession! Didn't you catch that? Finn: So it was meant to be genuine? Damn... I even did my "lying face"... So the part about love at first sight is for real? I thought you didn't believe in that? writers: Of course we do! While we're at it... who the hell posted on our account that we don't?! writers intern: Sorry boss... I thought the tweet said CORRECT not INCORRECT... composers: Shit, we even titled the track after Will's quote... why the hell he was in the frame then? camera men: Don't look at us, we are as confused as you, hun writers: So you all thought Mike was gay?? costume designers: Yeah... We even sawed a big ass triangle on his shirt just like we added them on Robin's outfit. Wait, Robin IS gay right? writers: Yes, so is Will... it was supposed to be this beautiful heartbreaking story of a suffering traumatized gay boy who sacrifices his feelings so the OG couple can end up together! Noah: dA fUcK? camera men: Really? Damn... and we wasted a whole day on that van scene... editors: We know! We spent days choosing the gayest heart eyes possible! Great work Finn, btw <3

Finn: Awww, thanks <3 subtitle guy: Seriously amazing, Finn! Not just then - the whole season! I just kept adding [tender, emotional music], couldn't help myself tbh Millie: Wait, why didn't El and Mike get a scene together if the confession was genuine? writers: What do you mean? It was on page 458! writers intern: Boss? We run out of printing paper that day, remember? We only printed up to page 451... writers: Holly fuck, we're screwed... Where are the directors? We need to fix it somehow! Finn: No idea, haven't seen them since S2 tbh

[elevenenthusiast]

Stranger Things Characters and What I Think Their Occupation Would Be in the Future

NANCY – DETECTIVE / INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST

Nancy didn’t just stumble into journalism she demanded to be taken seriously. Even when people mocked her at the Hawkins Post, she kept chasing the truth. She was the first to connect the lab to Barb’s disappearance, the first to dig into the rats and fertilizer in Season 3, the first to realize Vecna’s victims shared a pattern. From there, she’s been putting pieces together when no one else would. That kind of persistence doesn’t stop. She’d follow missing persons, expose government coverups, and take on cases that terrify everyone else. After watching Hawkins turn into a warzone and no one reporting the truth she has to keep going.

JONATHAN – DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHER / PHOTOJOURNALIST

From the start, Jonathan used his camera to make sense of the world. He captured emotion, isolation, and humanity not posed or perfect, but real. In Season 1, his photos helped expose the truth about Barb and the lab. In Season 4, he feels aimless, but he’s always been grounded by observing people, not performing for them. After seeing firsthand what fear and loss look like through Will, through Nancy, through the trauma of the Upside Down he’d turn his lens on the kinds of people the world forgets. Shelters. Survivors. Youth without voices. His work wouldn’t just document pain it would see it. And in doing so, help others see too.

WILL – ARTIST

Will has always spoken through images, not words. From the moment he was taken, the world stopped listening to him but he never stopped creating. In Season 4, we see the depth of that his painting for Mike isn’t just art, it’s a confession, a prayer, a self-portrait disguised in dragons and knights. That’s how he processes the world through color, metaphor, feeling. He paints what he can’t say out loud.

As he grows up, art becomes more than therapy it becomes truth. His work is layered with emotion, nostalgia, queerness, loss, and hope. It’s not just fantasy anymore it’s raw, honest, aching. His paintings end up in galleries and museums. Quiet observers see his work and feel understood, like someone finally said the thing they’ve been carrying. One of his most famous pieces? A painting of a boy standing in sunlight, staring at another boy with wonder in his eyes. The world doesn’t know it’s Mike. But he does.

(Imagine this is Mike looking at the painting in a gallery)

MIKE – AUTHOR / STORYTELLER

Mike has always been the one spinning the tale. From the basement table in Season 1 to leading entire D&D campaigns, he’s the Dungeon Master for a reason he builds worlds. But as he gets older, life becomes harder to narrate. Season 4 shows a Mike who struggles to express how he feels especially to the people he loves. He’s emotional, but guarded. He wants to say the right thing and never knows how.

Writing becomes his outlet. It’s where he doesn’t get interrupted. He writes fantasy, because it’s always been about more than dragons and quests it’s about survival, identity, and love. His stories are full of magic, yes, but also about connection. He writes characters who find each other in the dark. And though he doesn’t always realize it, he’s writing about Will. About himself. About the boy in the painting who always believed in him.

He starts off scribbling short stories no one reads. Then books. Then full epics. Somewhere down the line, a fan finds Will’s painting and pairs it with a quote from one of Mike’s books. “He looked at him like he was the sun, and for once, he didn’t look away.” No names. But everyone knows.

EL – SCULPTOR OR INSTALLATION ARTIST

El never had a childhood. She was raised in silence and surveillance, with only small moments of joy one of those moments including arts and crafts. Art gave her a voice when language didn’t. And after everything after Brenner, the lab, the loss of Hopper, and nearly dying in the Upside Down she’d need a way to heal. Sculpture would give her control. Her hands would create what her mind struggled to hold grief, memory, power, transformation. Maybe she works with salvaged materials. Maybe her installations are about memory and light. But in the end, she builds instead of destroys quietly, beautifully. Because she finally can.

LUCAS – PRO BASKETBALL PLAYER

Basketball wasn’t just a hobby for Lucas it was a lifeline. In Season 4, he wasn’t trying to ditch his friends he was trying to find a place where he could be seen. After years of being the sidekick, the nerd, the overlooked one, basketball gave him a way to feel proud, strong, chosen.

But when it mattered, he chose his people. He stood up to Jason, fought for Max, and proved that being an athlete didn’t mean selling out who he was. He trained, he pushed, and he earned it. He goes pro not because it’s easy, but because he worked for it. Because he had something to prove to the world, and to himself. And every time he steps onto that court, it’s not just about the game it’s about survival, loyalty, and becoming more than what Hawkins tried to make him.

MAX – LAWYER OR THERAPIST

Max was always observant, always hiding behind sarcasm and deflection. But she felt everything. She saw her mom suffer. She endured Billy’s abuse. She blamed herself for his death. And then Vecna targeted her because she was hurting, and tried to carry it alone. In Season 4, she confronted her grief head-on. She ran toward it. And she survived barely. That kind of trauma doesn’t fade, but it transforms. Max would grow into someone who fights for the ones no one listens to. As a therapist, she’d sit with kids who are angry and scared and make them feel seen. As a lawyer, she’d take down abusers, systems, and silence. Either way, she becomes the person she needed sharp, empathetic, and unrelenting.

DUSTIN – SCIENTIST OR ENGINEER (ROBOTICS / ASTROPHYSICS)

Dustin’s brain never stops. From building radios to decoding Russian transmissions to explaining alternate dimensions, he’s always been ahead of the curve. But he’s also the heart curious, generous, enthusiastic. He’s the one who brought everyone together and made science fun. He’d grow into a brilliant, slightly chaotic scientist maybe working with robotics, maybe studying wormholes but he’d also make it his mission to teach. He opens a lab that feels like the best parts of a comic shop and a classroom, where kids like him feel seen and celebrated. He builds tech and builds people too.

ROBIN – INVESTIGATIVE PODCASTER

By Season 5, we know Robin’s working at WSQK radio with Steve which honestly feels like the beginning of exactly where she’s meant to be. She’s always been quick, sharp, and a little chaotic, with a brain that doesn’t slow down. She’s the type who asks the uncomfortable questions and actually wants the real answer.

After Hawkins, she turns that instinct into something more starting an investigative podcast that begins local but quickly gains traction. She covers strange disappearances, small-town corruption, and stories no one else is telling. Her voice is fast, dry, and compelling part journalist, part storyteller.

Robin uses her platform to spotlight marginalized voices, uncover systemic failures, and take apart everything that doesn’t make sense just like she’s always done. She’s not interested in being the face of anything, but somehow ends up one of the most respected names in underground journalism. It’s the natural evolution of who she’s been from the start a girl who won’t shut up when the world tells her to.

STEVE – COP OR FIREFIGHTER

Steve’s growth was never about becoming cool it was about becoming brave. He started as the selfish guy who bailed when things got hard, but after Season 1, he never stopped showing up. He took a bat to a demogorgon. He drove headfirst into danger to protect kids who weren’t even his responsibility. He’s scared and insecure but puts himself between others and harm anyway. By the end, it’s clear he cares about his town. Becoming a firefighter or even a cop under Hopper’s mentorship would give him a way to protect people in a world without monsters but with real danger still everywhere. It’s not about power. It’s about purpose.

(I had a board for Steve too but Tumblr hit me with the image limit unfortunately)

[queen-of-hawkins-why-ler]

Why I believe that Milkvan will actually be going strong at the beginning of s5

Don’t let the title scare you lmao it’ll be good by the end. 😭 So I know that a lot of ppl are convinced that Milkvan will be bones right at the beginning of s5, but I have reason to believe that this will not be the case and that Mike and El will actually seem to be doing surprisingly well. Key word: SEEM.

The first reason I think this is because Mike Wheeler’s struggle against internalized homophobia and following social norms is not quite over, and where his character ends up in s4 alludes to that. The van scene lead us to believe that maybe Mike really was picking up what Will was laying down in terms of realizing the potential of a romantic connection, but by the end of the season, this hope has been crushed. He took Will’s “don’t stop, you’re the heart” to mean that Will doesn’t actually want him the way Mike hoped he would (romantically). And ultimately, however unhappy it may make him, Mike MAKES THE CHOICE to conform and to choose what people expect from him, which is to save El and be her romantic partner. In the same way that Will “ripped off the bandaid” in the van scene, Mike also ripped off the bandaid by giving in and confessing his love to El. That was him closing the door on the possibility of getting to be with Will. It was all just wishful thinking. Plus, Mike definitely has a complex about needing to be who the people in his life need him to be. His love confession to El was him choosing to conform and choosing to accept that THIS is who he needs to be, even if it doesn’t feel right.

Sure, Mike may know that he loves Will, but by the end of s4 he has already made a choice: the safe choice. The choice to be who people need him to be. He has accepted his place of being by El’s side as a sort of duty. It’s what he MUST do even if it doesn’t make him happy. And I believe that this is the conclusion he came to by the end of s4. Think of the scene of him holding El at the hospital but practically twitching just trying to keep from grabbing hold of Will’s hand. This scene very heavily mirrors the scene in s1 where Steve and Nancy are cuddling, but Nancy is clearly thinking about Jonathan.

Milkvan going strong at the beginning of s5 also makes sense for Will and El’s characters: it’s because Milkvan breaking up and Byler getting together are pivotal pieces of all three characters’ arcs. This story is about El realizing that she doesn’t need Mike, Mike realizing that he doesn’t have to be El’s knight in shining armor and that he can be that for Will, and Will realizing that he can have reciprocal romantic love from the boy he loves. But because the breakup hasn’t happened yet, these three characters still have a ways to go before any of them realize the truth (that Mike and El don’t belong together but that Mike and Will do).

Mike, Will, and El are all complacent in the roles where they see themselves by the end of s4. Mike has decided to dutifully accept his place of standing by El’s side. Will has accepted that “the bandaid has been ripped off” and that Mike and El will be together while he’ll be alone. El came close to realizing that she is able to save herself, but she ends the season comfortable and complacent in the role of being Mike’s girlfriend.

Mike loves El. It’s platonic love, and us Bylers will be able to recognize that right away, but the rest of the GA won’t. I believe that the beginning of s5 will lead us to believe that Mike and El are actually doing quite well in their relationship, because both characters have chosen to close the window and “not look at what lies beneath the curtains.” There is a sense of knightly satisfaction Mike probably gets from being by El’s side, and this will most likely only be propagated by Mike’s parents and his own friends reaffirming for him that he’s good at this role. Saying things like “Good job, Mike.” All of this just reinforces for Mike that this is where he needs to be. It’s not where he wants to be. It’s certainly not what he wants the most, but it’s what he’s the most good at, so he should keep doing it.

So he takes care of El. He consoles her, supports her, probably hugs and kisses her and all that and people will be like, “SEEEE??? I TOLD YOU MIKE AND EL WERE ENDGAME” but the thing is, it’s only a matter of time until someone (say, Vecna *cough cough*) pokes a hole in this illusion and shows Mike that he’s just kidding himself. “I know your secret, Mike Wheeler. Everybody thinks you’re the perfect boyfriend and the perfect son, but that couldn’t be further from the truth, could it?”

Something has to come crashing down; there has to be a moment where Mike is slapped in the face with the reality that he’s a fraud to the people in his life and that he’s lying to everyone. But this is a realization I believe he has to have DURING season 5 and not before, which is why I think Milkvan will “appear” to be going strong initially. Because Mike is, we won’t say happy, but “content” to fulfill the role that the people in his life and society have placed onto him. He has accepted who he must be for El, and I believe he’s going to do everything in his power to do a good job at it.

For comparison’s sake, think of Zuko from ATLA’s character arc. By the end of s2, it seems like he’s had a lot of growth and that he’s starting to deconstruct his views and join the gaang, but he takes a hard left and ends up joining his sister and father instead, not necessarily because it’s what he wants, but because it’s what’s expected of him. And it’s because he takes the hard left that his ultimate redemption is SO satisfying. Mike hasn’t had his last rodeo with conformity and internalized homophobia LOL. He’s got another round to go of being the person people want him to be and actively fighting against himself. This will make the payoff of Byler so much more satisfying, because we’re actually going to see Mike choosing Will and choosing to be himself despite the odds and despite the pressure he feels to conform.

But yeah. Basically, Mike isn’t done being a conformist and denying himself, which is why he will be The Good Boyfriend TM to El at the beginning of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised if we even got a couple’s montage of them going on dates and such. They’re both just so… comfortable. And complacent, being who they are “supposed” to be. I need that illusion ripped out of Mike Wheeler’s hands and stomped on the ground in front of him.

[love-byers]

i had the misfortune of ending up on mileven tiktok by accident and found some gold

dude. how many times do we have to say its not the fact that they're standing next to each other. its the fact that they're standing next to each other when all the other characters are paired off with their significant other with significant space between them. they are SANDWICHED between two couples that they have numerous other parallels with. like you have to be playing dumb if you think we're just saying byler is endgame because they're in the same proximity. and WDYMMMM MIKE ISN'T EVEN LOOKING AT HIM why does that matter?? the whole point is that they're all looking forward at the fucking apocalypse beginning. nancy and jonathan weren't looking at each other, joyce and hopper weren't looking at each other. why does that matter?? and holy shit watching them try to analyze media is hilarious. the byler commenter was very concise an respectful and ofc the mlvn has to be backhanded. no, the 2 minute scene of mike saying i love you is not random, it's actually meticulously crafted so that we're able to tell mike is lying...

uhh because WILL IS THE MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER OF SEASON 5 AND THE WUOLE POINT OF AN ENDING SHOT OF A SEASON IS TO FORESHADOW THE NEXT SEASON???

do they think we're making this up???

he is the center and lead of season 5 and his arc is going to tie the whole series together. but nah they just paired him with mike and left him in the background on the hill just because el needed to be in front. they could've done a million other set ups where it actually comes off that mike and el are a team and in love and want to work together. they could've had those couples together and then had will alone or behind them and done a close up like they did with el in the actual scene, but no, he had to be with mike. and not only is he with mike, he and mike are paired off together and CENTERED. the CENTER of season 5 is CENTERED in the final shot of the season and he is standing with his long time best friend who he is desperately in love with. and all of this is foreshadowing for season 5, which if you've forgotten, is all about connection and finding belonging with others.

"People talk about mythology and The Upside Down, and all that is huge, but the magic of S5 are the characters who find a sense of belonging with other and through that connection, become heroes."

"[Season 5] It's about a group of people who question their value, who find each other, and who find superpowers in connection."

remember when mike beat himself up and questioned his value as a person because he feels weak and powerless and stupid next to el and then will gave him a painting where mike is a literal knight in shining armor and and confessed his own feelings about how mike holds everything together and makes him feel like he's better for being different and gives him the courage to keep fighting and how he'll always need mike and that finally made mike feel reassured

yeah...

alright you guys have to be lying. you can't think of a single reason why people would ship byler?? not a one??? you know what actually, you're right. why on earth would people ship two characters where one is canonically in love with the other, they've been best friends since the first day of kindergarten, they are always a duo, they have a special friendship compared to the others, one said asking the other to be his friend is the best thing he's ever done, one thinks home isn't the same without the other, they hold hands, put their arms around each other, always look out for each other, etc etc ETC. no yeah i don't see it

was the person who confirmed this named mike wheeler...

no yeah we just say random things. those of us using the knowledge we gained in film school/creative writing school to analyze a form of media are just saying random things. i just love making shit up!

mlvns are so silly lol like they really think they know more about film/writing than people who STUDY IT AND DO IT FOR A LIVING

[mousegoesmoo]

Okay I'm sure many of you all have seen this tiktok:

This tiktok has seemingly reached a very broad audience and I'm lowkey beefing with some of the comments. And then comments are stirring some byler doubt in me but I'm just gonna come on here and think through things logically. I'm only going to take into account things that are canon or have been stated by official sources.

Many commenters have stated that Byler will only be one sided, Will in love with Mike. Narratively, this does not make sense. Will's character has been pre-planned to be queer from season 1 episode 1 and in his character description. Additionally, Robin originally was not going to be gay, but that was changed during the filming of Season 3 (Maya Hawke talks about this). So, why would they have the only canonically gay character be used as a plot device to further El and Mikes relationship? It just doesn't make sense for his love to be unrequited. They have stretched out the plot point of Will's sexual orientation and love for Mike for many seasons, it has been slow burned. They could have given Will a sharp rejection in Season 3 during the rain fight, but they didn't. If they did, moving to California would be an opportune time for Will to move on from his love for Mike. But they didn't. Will made an entire painting for Mike and gave him a veiled confession- if it ends in unrequitedness they stretched out this plot line for far to long. It is unnecessary. It would just be unnecessarily devastating for Will to be rejected in the final season. Plus, we have seen it before, entire relationships can form in one season. Mike and El were formed in one season, Nancy and Steve broke up and then Nancy and Jonathan got together, why can't the same happen with Mike and Will?

2. Mike has never been implied or done any actions to suggest he is gay or reciprocates Will's feelings. First of, to quote the byler slides, Mike has more queer coding than Will (slide 7, slides linked). To preface, queer coding is "...when a character’s sexual orientation is implied by significant subtext without being stated outright."(Elizabeth Duarte). So, this doesn't necessarily prove that Mike is in love with Will, but it does imply that he is in the very least bicurious. Personally, I believe that one of the strongest bits of queer coding for Mike is during his initial attraction to Eleven. Eleven was often described to look very similar to Will and boy-ish. A little suspicious if you ask me. To add on to that, the problems in Mike and Eleven's relationship have grown as El has explored her femininity and self. Granted, the problems could have arose due to them both aging, but, it is still another common denominator. But, the byler slides have many instances of queer coding for Mike (some probably better than what I presented), so I would suggest looking into those rather than having me repeat them here. But queer coding implies queerness, therefore, Stranger Things has suggested that Mike is not straight.

2.5 Mike's feelings have never been reciprocated for Will. Now this is a trickier one. We haven't had a scene from Mike's perspective in a while, making it very difficult to have hard evidence that he is into Will as well. However, we can prove that Mike is heavily queer coded (because he is). So, if Mike were gay, who would he direct his affections towards? Lucas, who is trying to rekindle his relationship Max, Dustin, who has had a steady long distance relationship with Suzie, or Will, who has never shown interest in any girls despite having many opportunities (arguably, more opportunities than the other party members)? They would not put Mike into a one sided pining with Lucas or Dustin for the final season, it simply does not make sense. But Will, who has already had a developed crush on Mike for several seasons, the pieces start to click together. Mike liking Will is very dependent on Mike being queer, which we have proven through the fact that he is heavily queer coded. So, the only same sex individual that would make logical sense as his love interest is Will. Also: a huge point about not having a Milkeven endgame is that Eleven was supposed to die and, consequently, so would their relationship.

3. Unlikely for the time, so it will never happen. Girlypops. It is unlikely for someone to be dating someone with superpowers in the 80's. It is unlikely for a parallel dimension to take over and infect this one random town in Indiana in the 80's. ITS FICTION. Additionally, it is know that homophobia exists in the fictional Stranger Things universe (Lonnie, Troy, Robin's extreme hesitance to come out, etc.), ,but on the other hand, the Duffers are actively pursuing a relationship between Robin and Vickie. As of our knowledge right now, Vickie's sole purpose in the show is to be a love interest of Robin's. If they don't end up together it is most likely because Robin either gets a new love interest or one of the two dies in the final season. Ultimately, I do not think that Stranger Thing's taking place in the 80's will have an impact on whether or not byler becomes canon.

So those were the main three points made in the comment section of that tiktok.

I just want to also state that if Byler isn't canon, I would want to consider this to be a case of queerbaiting (but, this still depends on how they wrap up Season 5). Also, I would consider slapping a new love interest for Will to wrap up the season as very sloppy and lazy writing. AND, I think using Will's love for Mike as a stepping stone to progress a heterosexual relationship deeply offensive. If they were going to have Will be rejected, they should have done it way earlier in the series.

Thats all I have to say xx

[sunhufflepuff]

Thinking about how the whole Lover’s Lake theory and the fact that the Painting reveal, making Mike come to terms with his love for Will, could be intertwined all-together.

Let me preface this by pointing this,

In S4Ep4, Dustin takes a look at Max drawing and says this :

Nancy recognises Henry Creel House, because of the door….and where’s El is hold against, during Mike whole monologue to her?

His “love” confession was not enough to motivate her to fight back…since it was mostly a lie (aka : superficial; you’re my superhero, you can move mountains ect……nothing about her as a person)

No, she fought back because of her memories….and because she saw Max struggle against Vecna.

Now, it has been established in the show, that people go to Lover’s Lake because it’s a great hiding spot.

(Who else is great at hiding?

Will)

The poster of the song Boys Don’t Cry is the first thing we notice while El narrates S4EP01 : “Will is painting a lot. Maybe it’s for someone he likes.”

[I tried to laugh about it

Cover it all up with lies]

His painting is a love letter to Mike—From Will.

But, he “used” El name has a veil to lie and hide his true feelings for him.

Mike covered up his true feelings, too, because he has been motivated by Will speech through his painting.

What happens in the end of his speech to El?

The Lover’s Lake has been split in the middle, breaking the heart in two parts.

“See Wheeler right here? She didn’t waste a second. Not one second, she just dove right in (the lake) to save you. That was one of most ambiguous signs of True Love that these cynical eyes have ever seen.”

Eddie has it all wrong on the whole Nancy-Jonathan—Steve love triangle, by pushing him to try to win her back…..since Steve says to Nancy :

“When I was a baby I was crawling backwards. Like in reverse…..before I learned how to walk.”

Brenner also says this to Eleven in episode 7:

“The truth is you’re going backwards. You’re regressing, Eleven. I know you’re afraid. It’s this fear that is holding you back. You cannot hide from the truth…not matter how frightening it might be.”

If Nancy and Steve are going back together….it’s going backwards to what is safe, they’re not moving forward….they’re going backwards.

It will be a regression within the show.

Mike and Will are also running from their true feelings for each-other….because they’re afraid of the truth.

Like it has been pointed by others Byler’s analysts here, it’s interesting that Eddie didn’t mentioned Nancy by her name.

No, he said : “Wheeler”.

To whom this sentence could really apply, though?

It could apply to El—Mike—Will, love triangle.

Brenner also says to Eleven: “Reality. Truth is really so simple. Only by facing all of ourselves, the good and the bad……that we can become all.”

So, seeing Mike diving into Lovers Lake to save Will (who also got his heart broken, literally) to save him because he loves him?

Seeing him finally facing the truth?

It’s going forward, not backward…..for the three of them because they’re going to stop hiding.

“Stop hiding, Eleven.”

God, gotta love all the parallels.

[bylertruth3r]

Bychance does Not make Sense to me :( i can also explain this If you want :) but the Most Important Thing Is: they don't have time to Develope a new Character,and they don't need ANOTHER Love Triangle for Mike to realise and Accept His Feelings for Will.

ok first thing i'll say is i'm not a Bychance warrior, but from what i've read on tumblr s5 Will is based on s1 Nancy and that Nancy was dating a jock who was also a bully (Chance is like that too), plus i agree that making Will date someone else before Mike would give him more agency and more experience in his relationship with Mike, plus it would give Mike a wake up call that he could lose Will to another man if he doesn't hurry up and confess to him, (i could see them making Mike walk in on Bychance kissing and them giving us the same shot they gave us in s4 in the desert but with Mike in the middle this time and him getting jealous and confronting Will about his unhealthy relationship and Will snapping at him and saying that Mike was also in an unhealty relationship, and Will possibly slipping and saying "i deserve someone who could actually love me in the way i want him to" and Mike trying to kiss him and Will saying "you're too late" (he's not, Will is in denial) i could see the Duffers making Bychance happen to show how unhealthy mlvn and stancy were, with the difference that since Chance is a guy Will could possibly be attracted to him, especially if Chance flirts with him (there's a s5 leak that says that a guy is gonna hit on Will, which is how Bychance was born) first, i think that would influence Will because no other guy has ever openly flirted with him like that before and he thought that would never happen to him (as he implied in s3) so i think Will would take that opportunity to finally be with someone (even though he could never get over Mike), plus s5 is really long so they do have some time for another love triangle, i think they're gonna do that only for vol 1 tho which will end with a Bychance break up (because this relationship was just a plot device for Byler and to show the GA that Mike is upset over it) and with Byler finally kissing, vol 2 will only be focused on Byler and their blooming relationship

hope this helped :))

update: forgot to mention that they made Chance have Will's bday (22) on his jersey in s4

update: i also see them only making Byler kiss in episode 6 aka the episode Shawn Levy is directing (and i think there will be a rain fight about the painting before the kiss), i don't think Bychance would be a healthy and good relationship, obviously they have nothing in common (like mlvn) and i think they would only kiss and not talk, an unhealthy relationship, it would show the GA how bad mlvn was

[miwiromantics]

Let’s talk about this.

Why both will and el are so connected is because they both have the same storyline. They both have the same end purpose: acceptance.

!!warning: long post ahead!!

Will’s storyline: acceptance of love.

Unlike what most milevens believe, the duffers aren’t planning to end Will’s story with him accepting that he is gay because he HAS already accepted it. He accepted the fact that he was gay and in love with Mike, hence, the painting.

The painting, from the start, was a way of Will confessing his feelings (etc. you’re the heart) but it was never going to be said out loud. He had just planned to give it to Mike during the airport scene and it was supposed to be over.

But instead, he used it as a way to build up Mike’s confidence in himself and also lead up to say ‘I love you’ to El. He used El as a shadow over his own feelings to help Mike.

Will accepts that he likes men and is attracted to Mike. What he doesn’t accept is that he is going to fall in love. We see this in season 3 when he’s talking with Joyce.

This was a scene directly after a canon couple’s scene. Both Jonathan and Nancy are in fact in love with each other and when Joyce says the words ‘you won’t think it’s gross when you fall in love’ it indicates she meant when Will is in a relationship, not when Will is some one-sided love triangle.

So when Will says he isn’t going to fall in love, he is saying this because he knows he’s feelings in a relationship are not going to be reciprocated. He isn’t saying it because he hasn’t fallen in love with someone, he’s saying that it’s impossible for those feelings to be mutual.

Also to remind you, there was no need to put this scene in the first place if it was not hinting at something. It could’ve just been Jonathan and Nancy getting away and Joyce wiping lipstick off his face, indicating that she knew Nance was there anyway.

Throughout season 3, we can clearly notice that Will is struggling with something not related to the mind flayer. He’s struggling with his childhood, his friends and change. And the most important change is his feelings towards a certain friend.

Because of these feelings we get the rain scene. This was Will struggling to accept that he was different (gay) and in love with Mike. This was season 3’s struggle. But in season 4, through the painting, we see it’s been resolved.

He has accepted this but knows he isn’t going to be in love. He knows he’s feelings aren’t going to be reciprocated. So he does the next best thing other than confessing, and help mileven build up their already broken relationship.

Even more so, the scene with Jonathan and Will in the pizza place was acceptance enough for Will to come out. Both Will and Jonathan knew what they were talking about, the subtexts were very obvious. This was the acceptance of Will being gay and in love with Mike.

Now anybody with a right mind would see that this is clearly building up to something more important. A gay boy who thinks he’s feelings are not going to be accepted using he’s only way of confessing as a tool for a problematic ‘straight’ couple.

We must give the duffers credit as we know they aren’t just going to ignore Will’s feelings next season or slap him with some background character as a way of resolving this. There has to be more.

El's storyline: acceptance of independence.

Throughout her whole life, El has always been told what to do. Whether it has been for positive or negative means, she's never made a decision in her entire life leading up to season 2.

Let's be clear that before this girl knew the word 'friend', 'family' and 'love' meant, she had already gotten into a relationship. That before she ever knew what she liked and disliked, she was already in a relationship with the supposed boy of her dreams.

Anyways, independence is something so rooted in El’s storyline. It’s something repeated throughout the seasons. We see it in season 2 when she goes out on her own to find her mother and sister. It is important to note that Mike was not a part of this journey. Mike was not the sole focus or someone El thought she needed at that time.

Even in season 3, we are given the fact that El has never made a decision for herself. The strongest decision we ever see that season was her breaking up with Mike and even that has been disregarded by milevens, saying that Max influenced her or that she ‘didn’t know what she was doing’ or that ‘she’s just a teenager’.

Let’s be clear that anybody in a relationship is given the option to break up and leave the relationship if they want to. Max did not ‘influence’ her, she merely gave her the option. The option that is rightfully hers. By saying that it wasn’t really her decision or that she didn’t know what she was thinking, it’s like saying she doesn’t have an option.

She has the right to leave a relationship if she wants to.

The words ‘not hopper, not mike, you’ is so important to a character like El. A character that has been locked up and dependent throughout her life, finally given a choice to decide for herself is powerful.

Season 3 is important in El’s arc to independence because unlike what Milevens say, she doesn’t require Mike to be there for her to feel complete. The reason that El went to find Mike in season 2 was because they need each other is debunked in season 3. It shows that even when Mike is within her reach, she doesn’t go find him.

Now in season 4, we see a very big shift in her attitude from the previous seasons. She’s pretending to have a normal life when she clearly isn’t. She’s lying and hiding behind a fake persona to make her seem happy. She is still grieving from hopper while trying to put everything behind her and live a ‘normal’ life.

She, like many milevens, is building a reality where her and Mike are the supposed perfect couple. A reality where they are truly in love. She lies to Mike and herself throughout the rink-o-mania scene. And this all unfortunately breaks when Angela (that bitch) comes into the picture.

She throws El’s persona into the fire and absolutely humiliates her in front of the one person she didn’t want to be humiliated in front of. And this is where we see their relationship break (even more).

We see the first crack when El says that Mike doesn’t understand how she feels. To be honest, she’s right. Mike didn’t know how it felt to move to a whole new side of the country without her father and to be subjected to brutal bullying. But disregarding his feelings towards bullying is also something she does.

Now the curtains are open and everything is shown. We then get a scene of El basically pleading Mike to tell her he loves her. But instead of admitting it, Mike gaslights her and tells her their problems are caused by other people.

Mike says he says he loves her but if this was really the most important couple in the show I’m sure the duffers would’ve included the supposed scenes where Mike and El say they love each other TO EACH OTHER. And when she brings out proof, he calls her ridiculous.

Even in the van scene, he says that he’s scared that El won’t need him anymore. He wants to feel like a hero to her, someone that can protect her when in reality, she is way past it. She wants him to love her but he wants her to need him. He wants her to be dependent on him.

Through the beginning of season 4, we see her define herself in the way Mike sees her. While giving him a false narrative of her life, she pretends she lives in them. Plastering a fake smile just so that Mike would think she’s enjoying herself in Lenora and lying about parties to make herself seem cool.

You can see how defeated she looks when she realises that Mike might not love her at all.

She, like so many more milevens, want Mike to be the perfect lover, the person who is with her through all her problems and a shoulder to cry on. But he isn’t that person and she knows it.

But after she leaves Mike, we can truly see what her goals are. There isn’t a scene throughout her journey where she thinks of Mike and you can see her gain more confidence in herself, once again proving that she doesn’t need him to feel complete.

She does better without him.

Her arc was never about romance. Her arc was about finding who she truly is. It was about her finding a place in this world where she doesn’t have to be the hero or villain in the story. It was about her growing alongside the people she loves and the family she built.

We see that she realises that she is her own superhero, that she can solve her own problems and that she doesn’t need a shoulder to cry on. She can take on a challenge headfirst without letting anyone define who she is.

She doesn’t need Mike telling her that he loves her to realise that she is loved or that she can live a normal and happy life just like how she doesn’t need to forgive brenner to know that she is a good person. She is her own person.

And before anybody comes at me, yes. A woman can be in a relationship and still be independent. But once it come to a point of lying about and to yourself and defining who you are through another person’s feelings, it is not healthy.

She has taken on challenges before Mike, during Mike and will continue to do so after Mike (and all this happened without Mike). She doesn’t need him.

Both Will and El need support and love through their journey. It only comes down to what type of love they need that’s important. El does not need romantic love to thrive while that’s the only love Will is lacking.

Anyways we also clearly see that in the end El is on her own journey and that Mike and Will are a team alongside all the other endgame couples.

So byler endgame and El independent arc era.

(My writing is a bit sloppy here and there so if there are any questions regarding it pls ask. Also again, sorry for long post)

[strangersteddierthings]

Shovel Talk(s) Final Part

Part One 🦇Part Two🦇Part Three🦇Part Four

Steve starts with Dustin. Not for any particular reason. Dustin is just the first person he ends up seeing after an entire weekend spent at Eddie's house. They'd redone their date in Indy on Saturday, getting back into Hawkins late, so Steve stayed the night. He had a morning shift at Family Video but it was Robin's day off so he didn't see her.

Dustin called at 11:00am on Monday to ask for Steve's assistance with his bike's flat tire. He needs a ride to Melvald's for a new tire tube and pump, and since Steve's shift doesn't start until 2:00pm he agrees.

Steve picks him up and listens to him ramble about his weekend and how he the tube got a hole in it. He stays in the car while Dustin runs inside to make his purchases, and then they're back at Dustin's house. Dustin knows how to change out the tube on his bike; he's been raised by a single mother for longer than Steve's known him so he's pretty self-sufficient, but Steve still offers to do it and Dustin lets him.

It's little moments like these that really let Steve feel like Dustin's brother. Which is what makes it easier for Steve to say, as he is peeling the tube from inside the tire out, "hey, do you remember a week or so ago, when you said we were happy for Eddie and me?"

"Yeah," Dustin says as he's ripping open the package the new tube is in.

"You also told me to not hurt him. I- why'd you say that?" Steve halts his progress on peeling the tube out to look up at Dustin.

He watches as Dustin turns sheepish, "I. Well, mostly I said it so that when I talk to Eddie, I might feel less bad about threatening him."

"What? Why did you threaten him?"

Dustin finishes freeing the new tube from its prison before finally looking back at Steve, "I haven't yet. Mike was talking about how Nancy gave you a shovel talk a while ago, as Eddie's 'best friend'," he makes air quotes around the words, "and I'm your best friend, so I have to give Eddie one. But Eddie's also my friend, so I had to say something to you, too."

"That's so-" Steve cuts off, because he was going to say that's so childish but Dustin should be allowed to be childish just a little longer. Part of his childhood was stolen by monsters and Steve can give him a little bit back, "that's a nice thought but please don't shovel talk Eddie. Besides, Erica beat you to it."

"Shit!"

"Language."

"Well, since Erica did it there's really no point in me doing it. She's terrifying when she wants to be."

Steve laughs because Erica can be terrifying. "Give me the tube, or do you want to finish this?"

"No, continue," Dustin thrusts the tube at Steve, who takes it with a grin and gets back to work.

Robin and he are closing on a Wednesday night, so it's been slow all day, and while Steve wants to talk to Robin, he doesn't want to be interrupted. So, they go about their shift like normal and it's only once he's locked the door and flipped the open sign to closed that he seeks out Robin in the back room, where she's counting down the till.

"Can you pause after that? I need to talk," Steve says and feels his stomach churn. He's never.... he and Robin have never had a fight, never really had any issues that required a talk. Not about anything between them anyway. Robin's always just understood him, in the same way he's understood Robin. They've never been the source of each other's pains until now.

"Yeah, of course," Robin finished the coins, marking down the amounts on a piece of paper before shifting to give Steve her full attention. "Are you ready to talk about it?"

"It?"

"Whatever's hurting you," she says. "I don't know what it is, but I knew you'd come to me when you were ready."

"It's been heard to try and talk about," Steve confesses, "because it's never. It was never you that I've been- I still don't know what to say but I know I don't want to be..." he trails off, waving his hands as he grapples for the words he wants.

"Oh," Robin whispers, standing from the desk to approach. "I hurt you. Tell me what I did, so I can properly apologize."

"When you told me to be careful with Eddie," Steve says, "after I told you about our first date. I don't understand why you'd say that me."

Robin looks pained and swallows before she says, "I'm so sorry, Steve. I shouldn't have said that. And I don't- I don't even have a good reason why I did. I know you'd never hurt Eddie. I know you and what I said wasn't even about you. Not the real you, anyway."

"So, why'd you say it, then?"

Robin frowns and looks away from him, shuffling her feet before she says to a point at the wall, "I was friends, or friendly, with a lot of the girls you were with in high school. A lot of one and done dates that I had to hear about, while they cried in the bathroom or on their bedroom floors, wondering what they'd done wrong, why you didn't stay or-" Steve winces as the reminder of who he'd been in high school comes easily out of Robin, but not for the usual reason he winces. It's not because Robin's reminding him he used to be a douche; she's reminding him of all the people he hurt and never cared that he'd done it. He never apologized, and now it's far too late even if all those girls deserve to hear it.

Robin is still speaking, "or whatever. But that doesn't matter now. You aren't that guy anymore; haven't been the entire time I've actually known you and it wasn't fair for me to say what I said. I just- you took Eddie out, and the part of me that spent years of high school consoling friends who felt used by you just spoke. I-I need to work on filtering the words that come out of my mouth, because if I'd waited like, four more seconds to process your words and settle in the fact you went on a date we both thought you'd never be brave enough to ask for, then I never would have said it. I'm so sorry, Steve. I know you and I should have known better."

Steve swallows thickly, because it hurt to hear but he also knows she's sorry and that's enough. He steps forward and sweeps her into a hug, crushing her against him. She squeezes back just as hard.

Steve has never felt really hurt about Wayne's shovel talk. It was the first, and the only one he'd say he deserved. Not because Steve deserved to have a shovel talk given to him, but because Wayne should get to have the honor of giving one. Eddie's never had a boyfriend before, and Wayne had spent so long worried about how this town would treat Eddie if they knew he was gay.

So, when Steve sees Wayne again, he just smiles at the man, and gets a genuine smile back. He and Wayne are ok.

He and Jeff apologize to each other next time they cross paths on a Hellfire night. Steve apologizes for being snappy and rude. Jeff apologizes for automatically assuming the worst of Steve. They agree to a truce and a start over.

Steve's convinced he can win over Eddie's friends eventually.

Steve can't talk to Nancy. There's too much left unsaid between them for him to feel comfortable with telling her she hurt him. But it's okay. He and Nancy aren't close friends, and she's leaving for Boston in a few weeks for college. He's sure that the distance, and not seeing her weekly for Lunch Date Day, will help.

So, he's a bit surprised to answer the knocking on his front door to see Nancy. It's an exact recreation of the day she shovel talked him and immediately Steve tenses.

"Uh, hi," he says.

Nancy takes a deep breath and says, "I'm sorry. I thought I was being funny when I gave you that shovel talk, but I- someone made it clear to me that we aren't friends enough to be able to make jokes like that. That's my fault, too. For everything I've done and never apologized for. So, I want to say that I'm sorry."

Steve's a little stumped, a bit perplexed even, so he speaks on autopilot, "It's fine, Nance. We're good."

Nancy squares her jaw and narrows her eyes and says, "no."

"No?"

"No. Don't forgive me. Not yet. Make me earn it."

Steve don't respond right away. He wants to just forgive Nancy, but when he thinks about it, he just wants to do that so Nancy will quit looking so defensive. He's not sure he does forgive her. "You're right. I- we'll work on that, then. Being friends one day."

"Good. Good," Nancy nods. "I'll see you are Lunch Date day, yeah? Or... or would you like me to stop coming?"

He shakes his head. "No, please keep coming. There's, what, three more before you're off to college? We can work towards friends in that time, yeah?"

"Yeah," Nancy gives him a small smile, "see you then, Steve."

"See you," Steve replies and shuts the door as she heads down the walkway back towards her car.

He wants to know if Eddie or Robin gave her the dressing down that brought her here to say sorry.

(It wasn't Robin or Eddie. It was Mike, learning what Nancy had done and telling her it wasn't her place to do that.)

There is one final shovel talk for the remainder of their relationship.

It's the final day in Steve's room at his parents house. He's moving in with Eddie and Wayne, at least until the kid's all graduate. Then he and Eddie might go off somewhere on their own.

He's finished packing up his things from the bathroom, and looks up in the mirror. He sees himself, and almost doesn't recognize the reflection staring back. He looks happy. Actually, really happy.

Eddie appears behind him in the mirror, leaning himself against the doorjam, smiling softly at Steve through the mirror.

"All done, sweetheart?"

"Yeah, babe," Steve says. "Just one more thing."

"Oh?"

Steve slides his eyes away from Eddie in the mirror, back to himself. He lifts a finger and points one accusingly finger at himself and says, "if you fuck this up, Harrington, I'll kick your ass myself."

Eddie's full belly laughter rings loudly in the bathroom and Steve just smiles.

[demi-god77]

Saw byler doubt on my tl and I won't have it, so I'm here to try and ease your doubts @lucystark12

(English isn't my first language and I'm currently running on zero hours of sleep. This might be a bit incoherent)

BYLER AND CHARACTER ARCS

First of all, you have to think of this in context to El's character arc as well!

Her arc has always been centered around found family and her own sense of self (the things she lacked for most of her life while she was in the lab, especially since her entire identity was reduced to a number.)

Romantic love (ending the show in a relationship with Mike) would not be beneficial for her arc, as it is not something she lacked prior, she didn't even know what a boyfriend IS when she escaped from the lab. It also sets her back on her path of self discovery (+ she is shown to learn the most about herself when she and Mike are apart).

In an arc about found family, self discovery and independence, forcing her into a relationship that actively separates her from said found family and creates conflict (with Hopper and with the rest of their group), that also doesn't let her figure out who she is, what her interests are and overall stuns her self discovery and independence, would make zero sense. It would not be a progression for her character at all. Especially for someone that has been controlled by others (and men specifically) her entire life.

~~~

About Will now, if his arc was actually about moving on, there was absolutely no reason to make him in love with Mike. All of their conflicts COULD be purely platonic, if their purpose was to signify that he needs to move on/grow up. But they weren't. There would be no reason to make him in love with Mike, he arguably wouldn't even have to be gay for this arc. And yet, his sexuality is mentioned even prior to s1, in the pilot script -clearly important for his character. Him moving on from those feelings would not be beneficial for his arc either, especially since he has already tried to. He has tried to hide from the world, he has tried to repress his feelings and it didn't work out. They even straight up told us he's not able to move on ("[I] need you and [I] always will")

Furthermore, he already believes that his feelings will not be reciprocated, that he needs to let go and that he will never experience a romantic relationship, will never find love. To have him be right does not make for a good story. It sets his storyline back to square one. Him coming into his own and confronting his trauma is definitely a part of his arc, no doubt about that. Moving on from his feelings however, giving up on a love he never let himself believe he could have in the first place, is not.

~~~~

Lastly, Mike himself. I honestly don't really think he has that much of a communication issue. His communication skills are of course not great, they are pretty bad yes, and he obviously struggles with verbally explaining his feelings, but he shows his love through actions and not words. That's something that has been shown since s1 and that's always been how he communicates his emotions. Through actions.

But even so, he has been shown to productively communicate using his OWN words and his OWN feelings before, the shed scene in s2 being a prime example of that (arguably the bedroom scene in S4 as well). His parents' main issue with their relationship is not that they don't communicate imo, it's that they never really loved eachother (and that also ties in to Nancy and her relationship with Steve).

Another thing:

Mike needs to be needed, that's when he feels useful, that's when he feels loved. El is coming into her own, becoming independent, realizing she doesn't need to depend on others, on him. But Will in his monologue confessed that he always will need him, something that will never change.

Moreover, if his arc was truly about learning to communicate effectively, I don't think they would put such emphasis on his insecurities, thinking of himself as inferior and trying to conform. (Also, forcing a confession, especially one based on someone else's feelings would be a horrible writing choice in an arc about self expression.)

Mike actively tries to push aside his nerdy interests and the things he enjoys (who he is) while in the relationship, in order to appear cooler, mature, normal. Pretend he's not himself. THAT is something he gets from his parents. And THAT is not something attributed to bad communication skills, but forced conformity.

And after all, forced conformity is killing the kids.

[lestatlioncourtt]

I apologize in advance because this one is really long but here it is! all the stranger things (and some byler) theories I either came up with or saw somewhere in the last weeks!!! please feel free to share your thoughts on them whatever they are just be respectful please! I would be really happy to talk about them!! (I know some on them are conflicting between each other but I just gathered as many theories as possible, I also know some of them are really weird and kind of out of pocket but whatever)

1. max, eleven and will die

2. mike dies

3. will is still some sort of spy for the upside down but now is not for the shadowmonster but to vecna

4. will has powers and that's why he was able to survive in the upside down meanwhile barb died almost instantly

5. vecna is gonna erase every memory that will's friends and family have of him (aka erase him from existence)

6. mike will be vecnas target so he can get to both will and elevens weakness

7. mike and eleven will breakup (still in the beginning of the season)

8. will is gonna die right after confessing his feelings for mike or mike is gonna find out about wills feelings for him right afer will dies

9. eleven is the only one who dies (maybe sacrificing herself bc she may have a connection to vecna and the only way he can die is if she dies too)

10. both will and eleven die

11. my favorite theory: BYLER ANYTHING ABOUT BYLER, BYLER CANON, BYLER CONFESSION, BYLER KISS, MIKE WHEELER REALIZING HE HAS FEELINGS FOR WILL BYERS

12. everyone thinks steve is going to die but i actually think hes pretty safe, and if he were to die i don't think he would be the only one, he would die along with another main character

13. important byler scene in episode 5

14. mike and Lucas sacrificing themselves for will/eleven and max

15. more of a wish than a theory, NANCY NEEDS TO END UP W JONATHAN AND NOT W STEVE PLEASE

16. The dragon in will's painting for mike is actually a new monster they're going to be fighting in season 5 (because we already now the monsters are all after creatures that exists in dnd like the demogorgon and vecna and will's painting is dnd related)

17. byler in a bar in the 90's after they graduate

18. Holly(Mike's sister) goes missing and Mike and will go after her and get closer to each other in the process

19. will is going to be staying at the wheelers when they move back to hawkins now that they probably don't have their own house anymore

20. mike talking with nancy and realizing his relationship with el is falling apart or talking w nancy about will and realizing his feelings for him in the middle of it (maybe nancy is also talking about Steve and Jonathan, making a parallel between their love triangles)

21. byler is going to become canon and shortly after that one of them dies

22. flashback scene of mike and will meeting each other for the first time when they we're 8 years old at a swing

23. the first scene of the first episodes of season 5 showing will as he arrives/falls into the upside in the first episode of season 1

24. in season 4 Eddie has a line that goes "it's forced conformity. That's what's killing the kids" > possibly being a foreshadowing to mike or will dying because they tried to fit and follow the social norms. (aka being straight)

25. will confessing to mike or the other way around while they're battling against vecna or a new monster that is going to be introduced

26. byler kiss with heroes by David bowie playing in the background

27. will and Robin talking with each other about how they understand each other (aka being gay, but maybe they don't even realize the other is talking about this)

28. max is not physically alive but she can still help the party mentality(?) like helping they defeat vecna inside of her mind

29. if eleven doesn't die maybe she surrenders herself to the lab so her friends and family won't be involved in these supernatural stuff anymore

30. mike e will are going to help the kids from the hawkins lab to escape

31. will and holly (Mike's sister) both have powers and were supposed to be two of the kids from the hawkins lab

32. will cleaning Mike's wounds or the other way around

33. byler sharing a bed

34. Mike, Will, Lucas, Dustin and Steve are all going to survive and we'll see them years after the events of season 5

35. hopper is dying for real this time (tbh i don't think so but who knows)

37. ROBIN IS NOT GOING TO DIE THAT'S MY WIFE AND YOU CANNOT TAKE HER FROM ME

36. i saw a girl saying mike, will eleven and hopper all die, but hopper dies before the other 3 (i also dont believe this one but you never know)

38. the upside down was created by vecna FOR WILL

39. the first part releases October 10 and the other releases November 27

40. everyone survives but the party splits apart and everyone goes their own way

41. our 4 divas suffering bullying again at hawkins high school 😭

42. will taking care of Mike's bruises

43. will does NOT have powers and vecna purposefully made him survive the upside down on season 1 just so he can use him as a puppet in season 5

that's it!!! I hope you guys liked some of my theories and feel free to share yours too, we need to occupy our minds while waiting season 5 to drop and what better way than theorizing?

[castlebyersthoughts]

I wonder if vecna is going to taunt Mike with his love confession to El. I feel like since that was the last big thing we see of milkvan it would make sense to breakdown that moment before they have their breakup. What if Vecna turned into El and said “YOU LIE. You don’t love me. I know what you really wanted to say. I know who your heart really beats for.” Or something not vecna related happens before the time jump where El says something about his heart/love confession and it starts to get broken down from there. I just feel like even though people hated his love confession and found it super cringy people will still remember it as fact after they breakup and I don’t want anyone to still be like “wait…but like didn’t he say he loved her why are they breaking up?” For byler to be able to properly grow El can’t be hurt by the breakup. I think it needs to be mutual. She can still be a little upset that it’s over but happy that they’re still friends. He can maybe try to explain himself then about how he was going to say one thing at the pizza place but they got interrupted and then it wasn’t really the time to say it when all hell broke loose. He just wanted to save her so badly that he said what she wanted to hear. Maybe El could say “I thought I wanted to hear you say it or that I needed you to.” Maybe similarly at the end of s3 when she first said it to him and it made him realize something, maybe it did a similar thing for her now when he first said it after all this time.

I completely agree with the fact that the monologue has to come up and be explained in a way in season 5 if they go through with Byler. Those are great ideas for it.

For the Vecna vision thing, I'd love something like that, but I'll be honest: as time passes, I'm becoming less sure that Vecna is even going to taunt Mike at all. I feel like at this point he's definitely more connected to El and Will but also Max, possibly Nancy, and now Holly. I don't really see the writers making him have some kind of relationship with Mike as well, but I'd be happy to be wrong!

I feel like Mike's internal conflict will be handled in a more human, as opposed to supernatural, way. Like him talking to Robin, maybe Vickie, and figuring things out. He's also probably going to be having multiple conversations with Will, yes some about Vecna, but not only, especially if they live together in the Wheeler house as I think they will.

In the end I feel like Mike and El need to have a big talk where they go over everything, for them as characters, and for the audience to really understand what the Duffers were saying with that relationship (if they want it to be crystal clear, but I could also see them wanting to leave some ideas in subtext only). Ideally they would go over how they got into that relationship too quickly, how they both tried to make it work when it obviously wasn't, because they simply didn't know any better, and how they confused their deep bond for romantic love because that was what was expected of them. (A scene like this would be great as the --don't read this if you don't want to know about leaks-- rumored baseball field scene, as baseball is a sign of forced conformity, and even forced "straightness", in the show). And yes, Mike needs to explain whether he intentionally lied during the monologue (I personally don't believe that was the case) or whether he thought he was saying the truth but didn't realize he was confusing other feelings (protectiveness, deep affection...) for romantic love. Or they can even say that he truly did love her but he's learning to let go of this relationship as it just wasn't right for either of them, and he realized now that Will was the right person for him all along. That could work too.

As for what you said about El, I believe she won't be hurt by the break up because when it happens she'll already have arrived at that conclusion herself (is that sentence even correct? English isn't my first language lmao). As I said in my reddit post, I don't believe El is in love with Mike in season 4, I don't even think she ever truly was. Nothing in the whole season makes us believe that, except for the fact that she wrote "Love" on her letters... which were full of lies. Hmm. I totally agree with the fact that when she got what she wanted, hearing "I love you" from her boyfriend, she realized it wasn't what she needed after all. But after that big love declaration from Mike, how could she have the heart (lol) to say something? She's probably gonna keep going through the motions with Mike because it's easier, or maybe she's still not realizing that this isn't real romantic love. They're probably not even gonna be spending that much time together anyway due to the fact that she's in hiding.

I do believe that if El learns about Will's feelings for Mike, and sees what true unconditional romantic love looks like, she would absolutely realize that what she has with Mike isn't that and they shouldn't be together in that way anymore. I could see her explain this to Mike, saying that she used to need him to tell her he loved her for the wrong reasons (because she thought she was unlovable/a monster) but her confrontation with Brenner changed her as she realized she wasn't the monster, and she was so relieved to reunite with Mike in the desert but she was now in a different place. Once again, she experienced personal growth during her time away from Mike. For the record, what I think El was going to tell Mike at the pizza place was something like "Mike, it's okay. It's okay if you don't love me, it doesn't matter anymore", and this could've led to an amicable break up. But this is a TV show so this shit has to be dragged out into the last season, preferably with a lot of drama, and make us lose some hair in the process.

That was a lengthy answer oh my god, sorry for blabbing so much. Thanks for the ask!

[prophecyhaunted]

So if i am not wrong these are the characters who aren't meeting the audience's eyes at all. All the other characters are making eye contact either halfway or entirely.

These characters here also happen to be a part of the endgame couples.

Given that they aren't making eye contact it tells us that they are hiding something. Season 4 is about truths and lies. In fact it even starts with a lie in episode 1 when Mike is reading El's letter filled with lies.

These characters are all hiding something from the audience and from their partners or family and even themselves. Mostly about their problems and their feelings. So we know that Max has been suffering and is trying to hide her pain from her mom, her friends and Lucus and is trying to cope with her brother's death. Joyce too has been struggling with her grief of losing Hopper however she is hiding it by focusing on her work and her children. She also lies to her family about going on a business trip. Jonathan has been struggling a lot too there are clear signs of it he is hesitating to make his decision and is contemplating every single one of his choices about his future including his relationship with Nancy.

And we have Mike— given the pattern we all know mike is also hiding his feelings from everyone even himself. He is confused he is feeling homesick even when he is at home. He is trying to hide his emotions by playing dnd to feel normal again. He is reaching out for everything that makes him feel like his old self he is desperately trying to stop feeling what he is feeling.

As the season ends most of these characters are able to come closer to fulfilling their character arcs— Max is able to come into acceptance with her feelings and is able to stop living in denial she even confesses to vecna about how she really felt about Billy in the end. Joyce is able to feel happy and stop hiding her pain as she tells hopper about what she was really dealing with when he was gone. Jonathan too is realising his arc and is protecting his family while also trying to respect himself and take time for himself and is conveying the truth to Nancy is the last episode.

But Mike—

Mike is also of course coming closer to his final character arc and is trying to fix his mistakes with Will trying to understand his relationship with el but he isn't there yet he hasn't achieved clarity unlike el who has most likely come into terms with the truth about their relationship. Mike is still confused. All of this is due to the fact that he hasn't accepted himself. Not entirely.

In a season filled with truths and lies. Mike's monologue ends up being a lie. I will say not everything is a lie. He is scared of losing El. However his feelings are just not in the right place. Once he accepts his true feelings once he accepts the truth he will be able to achieve his real character arc and fulfill it. And i believe that is going to happen in s5.

[lucystark12]

GUYS holy shit i am literally obsessed with this app good god because your theories have given me faith in good writing again AHH just like AHH hello!?!

here’s what is cannon to me about stranger things season five as of three days ago when i made my tumblr account (this is some stuff i riffed on from other theories and some things i came up with by myself):

- vecna has been singling out will from the beginning because of his connection to joyce when he was still henry creel as seen in the stranger things play

- vecna won’t be using will for the same purpose he did max and chrissy and others, he’ll be using him to turn into a second version of him, because it was henry who got sent into the upside down randomly as a little kid and got powers. will was kidnapped by henry and will be getting powers.

- vecna is going to drive will fucking insane. SO many reasons to believe this. he isn’t even going to be remotely like himself anymore, he will be so far gone. he’s not going to be evil, just like a shell of what he once was

- some of this insane driving will be done during episode four when we get the little will flashbacks.

- the reason will wont succumb to vecna is because he’s got a community of love and support. however, joyce and jonathan and el and the party won’t be quite enough to do it- it’s going to be byler that really gets will out of his trance. it’s going to be essentially a true love’s kiss situation because that’s another thing henry never had

- said kiss or confession will be done “on the other side” (a.k.a the upside down) per what was said in the bowie lyric in heroes. heroes acoustic always plays when mike loses will, and i have serious reason to believe that the actual bowie version of the song will play when we get the confession

- the painting is literally the most important part of mike and will’s entire season because the truth about it is going force mike to confront the situation in a deliberate, intentional way that he’s never had to before because before this point he’s never had will say to him specifically anything about his feelings

- as far as stancy vs jancy goes, i’d prefer jancy of course because i adore my girl nancy (look at my pfp for goodness sake), but i’m starting to think stancy is more likely. jonathan spent most of season four a little bit dumbed down by the writers unfortunately. i think they’re doing this to try and get our heads as the viewers around him not being there. i can see jonathan’s death as another way for vecna to fuck with will, and then there maybe being some kind of reconciliation plot between nancy and steve at the end of the season. i don’t know nearly as much about stancy/jancy as i do byler/mileven, so if anybody has a different perspective lmk!

- i saw a post saying alone by heart and listen to your heart by roxette will play in in this season and i kid you not both of those have been two of my favorite songs since i was like nine (emphasis on alone by heart) so like i would literally die

anyways these theories have just made me more excited for season five so it’s like omg

[stevie-petey]

Can i ask why you don't agree with those theories? I am really curious especially since you said you like byler. What are your theories about those three?

in my humble opinion mike does love el he is the sole reason she never saw their friends in s3 like mans was hogging her and spent an entire year mourning her death - to say he doesnt love her diminishes mikes loyalty as a character and makes him seem really icky and fake. hes the heart of the group for a reason !

ive always been confused by the narrative that mike is staying with el out of pity because 1. that makes els character look pathetic (and i hate that so much shes such a strong character) and 2. we literally see mike lowkey bullying max in s2 lmao like if mans doesnt like someone he lets them know. he doesnt care.

mikes character gets misconstrued so much (nancys too) because, in the nicest way possible, people cant read context clues. their parents are in a loveless marriage. their mom almost cheats on their dad with a teenager because shes so miserable. that isnt normal ! they never see their parents interact, mike has no respect for his dad, only his mom. the wheelers are heavily emotionally repressed because of their parents own miserable lives. its classic childhood trauma and it makes sense for nancy and mike to be so bad at communicating their feelings and love for other people. theyve never seen it done before !!! theyre trying !!! when el and will move, mike has to basically adjust to this huge change right after finally getting el into his life and telling her he loves her. that was hard for him to do. he spends all of s3 agonizing over it. and when he does finally express this, el leaves. so mans is rightfully a bit off kilter after. we cant just forget that.

i love the idea of byler and again wouldve rocked so hard with them had it happened or been built up sooner/better. mikes confusion over his feelings (to me) doesnt read as "do i choose el or will" it reads as "my best friend since first grade who has told me everything and has fought monsters with me and who i have saved countless times is hiding something from me and pulling away and i dont understand what i did wrong" (and this, mind you, is els own conflict in s4 with mike because hes suddenly pulling away and she doesnt know what she did wrong)

i think, quite honestly, theyre using wills character and sexuality to build mileven up (which is super icky). wills dilemma with mike in s4 parallels mikes dilemma with el because its supposed to serve as mikes epiphany of "oh this is why el is mad at me. it sucks when someone i care about wont communicate with me" hence why they have the entire van scene. that was my biggest ick of s4 where will is confessing his feelings to mike purely so that mike can realize why el is mad at him like i was so pissed off for a solid month afterwards ugh

and besides narratives and all that symbolic jazz, the leaks alone (from reliable sources who didnt pay money for a fake byler script) have all pointed to mileven. not even in a cocky haha ur ship lost way !! but it also just makes sense to end with mileven at this point. there is no possible way to fit mikes realization that he loves will, then his guilt to break up with el, then the breakup, then the build up to confessing to will, then confessing, and then maybe a mutual devotion (if we're even lucky) or the ugly cliche "ha gay lovers suffer no happy ending" ALL while still juggling the rest of s5 in a realistic and timely manner. it just isnt possible. and if they for some reason did decide to do this, i will be extremely upset because it wouldnt be done well at. all. it would either make will look like a hopeless devoted suffering character/homewrecker, mike an arrogant asshole/cheater, and el as either a homewrecker/pathetic character who cant be loved. it would be such a huge disservice to all of the characters.

i mean, with peace and love, this fandom cant even tell the difference between nancy dumping steve vs cheating and emotional abuse. so i really do not have the will to watch a love triangle unfold with senstive topics such as sexuality and trauma involving a vulnerable female character who already gets so much fucking misogynistic hate.

long story short: i would only support byler endgame if they somehow manage to uplift all the characters involved but considering the duffers track record - it isnt happening