#“astarion is evil” “astarion did nothing wrong” THE POINT IS THAT ASTARION IS A FUCKING PERSON WITH DIMENSIONS AND FLAWS

[sometimesraven]

I'm so glad the Sandman fandom are the way they are because I think if every time Desire of the Endless was brought up there was a huge discourse over "they're a BAD EVIL PERSON" "no they're FLAWLESS AND SEXY" I'd lose my fucking mind

[sewermageboy]

I think one thing that BG3 has really helped me consciously embrace is how shitty and rude and sometimes borderline evil characters can be, and that that doesn't take away my enjoyment of them. I don't need to moralize their actions or opinions, I don't need to ignore them. Astarion is a fucking asshole, he's racist, he's selfish, and yet he's one of my favorite characters of all time, partly because of how complex he is, and how much nuance he was given.

Like, retroactively, now that I'm back on my Dragon Age bullshit, I think I downplayed a lot of the negative aspects of Anders in the past, bc the debate around him is so heated, and there's almost that expectation of "if you like him that means you think he did nothing wrong ever" and "if you think he was wrong/cruel/whatever that means you must hate him."

But no. He's an absolute asshole to Fenris and Merrill, he's downright cruel in some of the comments he makes in party banter. Blowing up the Chantry stoked distrust and hostility towards mages across Thedas, and exacerbated the violence that came during the mage-templar war. And yet, it's understandable why he got to that point, why he felt it was the only thing he could do. He's cruel and obsessive, but he's also kind and selfless and loving, and that makes him so complex and multifaceted!

Anyway, the DA Fandom has this tendency to have everyone justify their enjoyment of a character according to both in-world and out-of-world politics, and BG3 with all its fucked up, flawed and lovable characters really helped me to consciously divorce myself from that.

[animentality]

You ever think about how the fandom will go nuts trying to explain how Astarion is ~basically~ an elven child and how he’s absolved of all guilt for everything he’s done by the abuse he endured and yet… on the other hand we also have Gortash, who very literally was a child when sold to the hells and put through who knows what manner of abuse, saw who knows what messed up shit, who has had chances to do better, yes, but has also had to fight to survive and be more than just a beggar on the streets once he escaped. And he’s the totally evil and irredeemable one according to most fans. I’m not trying to woobify him btw, it’s just always interesting how every other character gets defended on the basis of “but cult conditioning/abuse/etc” but Gortash is uniquely the worst man alive. Which he is, but also. Cmon. Astarion has a long list of innocent victims and is a razors edge away from becoming the next cazador in any given play through and yet he’s a perfect uwu angel apparently. This isn’t about saying Gortash isn’t evil, this is about saying he’s not drastically more evil than a lot of other nuanced characters in this game who get defended by the fandom masses.

ANON if I could kiss you, I would commit tax evasion with you.

THIS.

Like I know Gortash is awful, but so is fucking everyone.

Shadowheart can become a Dark Justiciar and do awful things for Shar. Lae'zel and the githyanki are a bunch of pricks who kill their own kids for showing weakness and kill innocent people all the goddamn time. Minthara obviously slaughters a bunch of innocent refugees, if you allow her to, and as a drow, probably committed a cavalcade of evil actions.

Gale's blind ambition could've nuked a fucking town. He might not have intended to become a living bomb, but he did, and by running around Faerun, he WAS putting literally everyone within like five miles of him in mortal danger. Wyll would've killed Karlach if you weren't there, and he expresses this horror, because he has definitely killed innocents for Mizora before.

Astarion would've gladly become Cazador 2.0, if you didn't stop him. He might've started out ok, but he would descend into that same evil, using you until there was nothing left of you, and treating others the way he was treated, because he sees himself as a god now.

Even fucking Karlach...who is a sweetie, and god I love her...well fuck, didn't Gortash accuse her of knowing just how shady his shit was? She was a desperate kid, yes, and he definitely took advantage of her, but he explicitly calls her out for working for him, even though she knew he was shady (if not a Banite). Plus she was his bodyguard for years. As if your bodyguard wouldn't know you were being a peace of shit?

The WHOLE POINT of Baldur's Gate 3 is that you and your companions are defined by your choices.

The option EXISTS to SAVE THESE PEOPLE.

THERE IS NO OPTION TO SAVE GORTASH.

The game gives you the option of seeing him die one way or the other way.

I'm just SAYING it's not totally fair to act as if Gortash is truly irredeemable, when out of all the villains, he at least had an idea of a better world, even if it was still self serving and frankly awful.

He was slightly better than the Dark Urge, and they GET the choice of redeeming themselves.

He never does. And maybe he wouldn't have taken it, but that's really not the point.

You hit the nail on the head, bud.

Gortash is evil, no doubt, this is true, he is not just a victim of circumstances, he made every wrong decision he could've made...

But the fandom has no problem woobifying Astarion even though that scene with Sebastian is fucking soul wrenching.

They raise their hackles at Gortash, as though he's been alive for 200 years and lured thousands to their deaths/vampirism, and they forget that Lae'zel is absolutely awful, and approves every time you murder children in front of her.

And Shadowheart spent her childhood learning to torture people.

You can say well their crimes aren't equivalent- and yes, that is true, HOWEVER.

Remember that you have met them when they were powerless.

If given power...if they had never been mindcontrolled by parasites...well shit, they might've fucking killed you.

They might've become tyrants themselves. I know it's purely conjecture on my part, I just kinda...I don't even necessarily want a redeemed Gortash storyline.

I'm fine with him just being a villain!

I just also have a working brain that doesn't understand the reflexive urge to say, he couldn't redeem himself if he tried.

I think, in this fictional world of course, that redemption should be possible. I think if they are honestly trying, and they repay the debts they incurred, then it might be justified.

But we didn't get that choice, and neither did he, and honestly, with what the game presents...I can whole heartedly say no, he wouldn't have redeemed himself. Even if he could, he would not have done it.

But the possibility does exist.

Trying to deny it makes you look like a hypocrite as you insist Ascended Astarion is still an uwu baby.

Like nah, sweetie. Good luck with that.

[sky-kiss]

Okay, your OC is a love interest, what does their first romance cutscene look like?

A/N: Sassy, this is such an amazing question. I hope it’s alright that I did it for my three main idiots (I have another, but he’s just an old man for Jaheira lol). 

Scrungus: (Cowboy lizard)

Being an Oath of Redemption paladin, Scrungus isn’t overly romantic. He’s very kind, but he’s more focused on the wellbeing of the group. The incident with the goblins leaves him a little down, so he’s melancholy post party. The PC has to seek him out. He gives you a little smile, tips his head. If you offer him wine, he politely declines. 

“Had to be done. Couldn’t have ‘em running along the coast, know that. Still…ain’t sitting right. Coulda done more. Shoulda, I reckon.” 

If you mention you would have liked to dance at the party: “Would have been good to see…ain’t much point killin’ if you’re not enjoy living.” 

If you ask him if he knows how to dance, or would have danced with you, he gives you a little grin. Yeah, he picked it up somewhere along the line. In a little village, years back, after a fight just like this. Used to be pretty good. But don’t hold him to it. He’d hate to step on your toes. 

If you point out that the goblins and the Absolute left you no choice: 

He agrees, but finds it unfortunate. Worse folks have turned their back on evil. 

If you go to hold his hand, he chuckles and moves it away. 

No offense meant, but he’s got one responsibility. Gotta see you through the city. No use muddling things. 

You spend the night talking about your past, his, maybe he tells you a story about some absurd devil or demon he talked round to redemption. It’s ridiculous. He lets the PC lean against his shoulder and doesn’t move them when they doze off against his chest. 

Evoi: (Evil, evil, evil AU!Joi; it’s early, and she’s…untempered) 

Goblin-party only. She’s turned on by the stink of carnage and the way you looked while slaughtering the Grove. She makes this very evident, very early into the party, sidling up to the PC, nosing their throat. 

Blood-slick, hunter-kin—soak in carnage, baptize her in your sweet cries. 

She’s going to fuck you. Consent is optional, sorry. Will lick every drop of blood off your character. It’s a lot of kissing and biting. Going to absolutely devour/go down on the PC. You’re her pet now (and she’s obsessive, crazy, generally the worst). 

Joi: (Amnesia Girl)

Joi still has no idea what’s going on or who she is at this point. The scene will have more variance compared to the above, based largely on player input. Most of  her reactions are going to be emulating the PC’s drive. I.e if you’re interested in talking, she’ll be softer and happily talk, but consistently direct the conversation away from her. If the PC is more forward and wants sex, she’ll fall back into that role. 

Is likely very similar to Astarion in that she’s unsure she wants to have sex at that point, but it feels natural, normal, and a way to like…establish rapport. And since she has nothing personal to offer, why not sex? It’s the best she can do. 

If the PC opts to take things more slowly, she’s comforted. Wants to hold the PC’s hand or sit in their lap/beside them. She’s naturally very physical, and the slow!route still reflects that. If the PC asks whether she enjoyed the party, Joi is puzzled and admits that she doesn’t know. Saving the tieflings felt strange, almost wrong, but she likes it. 

Platonic/Slowburn route: Joi asks your PC to tell her about their life, stroking their hair. She thanks the PC for sharing and kisses them. 

Sex route: Joi is enthusiastic, but distant. Leads the encounter, focused on pleasuring PC. The morning after, she is more conflicted and admits she did not sleep well.

[thenugking]

🌤️🌪️🪐 please!

🌤️How do you interpret the game mechanics in your fic?

I try to avoid going into a lot of detail about game mechanics, because they can make things really clunky and unnatural. I can’t use the phrase “spell slots”, it sounds far too gamified to me, so I stick with a more general “using magic takes energy”. From First Rest we have:

Wyll’s able to convince Shadowheart to use the last of tonight’s spellpower on summoning up a bucket of clean water,

Because I’m not going to fucking say “Wyll gets Shadowheart to use her last available Level One Spell Slot on casting Create Water, and then she needs to have a Long Rest to get some more back.”

Some things that are clearly just there for game balance I ignore. Like, sure, it’s useful in game to be able to pay Withers 200 gold to bring back your party members whenever they drop dead, but in fic, it really cheapens the emotional weight of death to have Withers be doing that all the time. That said, as much as I hate when fics feel beholden to the “only four party members” rule, I do kind of want Gortash telling Lee that nope, sorry, Orin can’t come on this mission, we already have four people, it’s just not possible to bring any more because of Reasons, sorry, I’d love to bring your freak of a sister along but everyone knows adventurers can’t hang out in groups of five.

(Lee: Well that’s all right, Orin’s basically just an extension of me so she’s a Summon actually--)

🌪️Is there a nugget of game lore that fascinates you, but you haven’t written about yet?

Hmm. If something fascinates me enough, I usually have to write something, just to get it out of my head. Although I would at some point like to write pre-game fic about Astarion’s siblings. Astarion too ofc, but there’s six other people here being horrifically abused and developing their own relationships and issues with each other and having their own terrible trauma responses. I want to dig into that and make things horrible for everyone.

🪐Who’s your favourite non-companion character, and why?

Orin Orin Orin my beloved baby girl who has done nothing wrong in her life, except for all the horrifying atrocities.

I will hold up my hands and admit that the reason I started liking her was aghsj Hot Evil Lady. But then I started really getting into exploring Durge, and Lee specifically, and goddd this girl is tragic. She’s my poor little meow meow who’s been groomed and abused by every family member she has, and honestly what fucking chance did she ever have to be a good person, or even a normal person? She’s tragic, and sympathetic, but has also, yknow, hurt so many people, and done shit that’s way too fucking evil to just be excused with, “well she’s an abuse victim.” Which ofc is a big theme of BG3 generally, but the game never fucking explored that fully with Orin, so now I get to do that. 

I’m loving writing her in No Highly Esteemed Deed, having her be very clearly Lee’s victim and, I hope, entirely sympathetic for her eventual decision to stab them right in the brain, but, well. She’s still clearly utterly fucked, she was obviously intending to rape Lee before they raped her, and it’s not exactly a spoiler to say that getting rid of her abuser isn’t going to suddenly fix her. Like, I’m currently writing Ketheric seeing an Innocent Victim and looking out for her, and you might notice that this is very much not the dynamic we see with them at the end of Act 2!! I love writing Orin destroying any positive relationship she has because she doesn’t know how to have a healthy friendship and is too disdainful and afraid of the whole idea to try.

I love putting her in Situations and have her fucking maim her way out of them and then voluntarily go back in them because she maimed everything outside her Situation too and now there’s nothing else left <3

[sylvainahyperfixation]

bro sometimes i get real confused about why so many people straight up hate minthara when they havent even TRIED her route. oh there's your answer right there. how could they like her when they have no idea what kind of person she is? also the fact that she's not fleshed out because of all the bugs, which is a damn shame.

and then there's also the reality some people live in that if you arent willing to commit war crimes for drussy (ugh, it's not like i didn't do it for this too but reducing a whole ass character to one sex scene is so disgusting) she's not "worth it". i would kill for larian to make her recruitable in a regular party because there's SO MUCH to her. i would wait years if it means there's as much content for her as there is for origin characters. and to the people who're gatekeeping her bc "if you cant handle being evil you dont deserve minthara" listen. fair. but i want more people to see her beyond The Sex Scene and The General Power Hungry Evilness. she's so much more than a one dimensional character a lot of people think she is and it's real obvious when they never take a look beyond her surface. but theyre willing to make excuses for Other Characters.

no shade on astarion lovers (and there are a lot of those) but what makes it so your traumatized horrible man is more worth exploring than my traumatized horrible woman? the level of devotion she exhibits to tav suggests that while she may disapprove of your actions she'll stand with you no matter what you choose (and honestly the bad ending proves that it's even to HER detriment, not that she knows that but there's an argument to be made for if you knew what would happen, would you still pick it? and therefore opportunities for character development). she's no less of a wonderful companion than all of the origin characters. in fact most people think wyll is bland af and yea, i agree. i romanced that guy in my first playthrough as astarion (which btw completely blinded me to what a Terrible Little Vampy Boi he actually is because i was the one making his choices) and i was like dude can this guy just be interesting. not that that's necessarily a bad thing...and wyll's probably the greenest flag companion there is because of how boring he is.

anyways my POINT is. all of our fucking companions are traumatized in some way and have a shady/sus past. why is minthara not worth "redeeming" (by this i literally mean i want to make her happy and not because i want to fundamentally break what makes her who she is, then i'd be no better than the absolute. but if you WERE to change someone it would be a slow and long process and there would have to be a lost of trust and openness, which from the way she's written i believe she's completely willing to share with tav by the end). i want to say this is because there's simply not enough content for her (and it's true) but also that just leads to the conclusion "my opinion of her is tbd because there's not enough info" and not "minthara evil therefore bad". but even with the content we're given if you think that her upbringing didnt completely fuck her over in a way that would take years and years to unlearn and heal from and That's Why She's Like That...not saying it's an excuse but it's a damn good reason. it's not that hard to recognize what makes a character good and the parts that you can poke and prod at to start making them question their worldview and also at the same time not be an apologist and be like "she did nothing wrong" (i would still say that ironically tho)

this has already been too long im just so fucking tired all the time of people who enjoy Other Terrible But Ultimately Redeemable characters and then turn around to slap a label on minthara when theyre formulaically the same because all of our companions are Problematic in one way or another. i guess some of them are just more palatable to you. i've also tried to keep this civil but i have So Many Words for astarion/shart/laezel enjoyers that dont have anything nice to say ab minthara. there's a reason those characters can make an actual party even if you slaughter the whole fucking grove