#“astarion is evil” “astarion did nothing wrong” THE POINT IS THAT ASTARION IS A FUCKING PERSON WITH DIMENSIONS AND FLAWS

[sometimesraven]

I'm so glad the Sandman fandom are the way they are because I think if every time Desire of the Endless was brought up there was a huge discourse over "they're a BAD EVIL PERSON" "no they're FLAWLESS AND SEXY" I'd lose my fucking mind

[sewermageboy]

I think one thing that BG3 has really helped me consciously embrace is how shitty and rude and sometimes borderline evil characters can be, and that that doesn't take away my enjoyment of them. I don't need to moralize their actions or opinions, I don't need to ignore them. Astarion is a fucking asshole, he's racist, he's selfish, and yet he's one of my favorite characters of all time, partly because of how complex he is, and how much nuance he was given.

Like, retroactively, now that I'm back on my Dragon Age bullshit, I think I downplayed a lot of the negative aspects of Anders in the past, bc the debate around him is so heated, and there's almost that expectation of "if you like him that means you think he did nothing wrong ever" and "if you think he was wrong/cruel/whatever that means you must hate him."

But no. He's an absolute asshole to Fenris and Merrill, he's downright cruel in some of the comments he makes in party banter. Blowing up the Chantry stoked distrust and hostility towards mages across Thedas, and exacerbated the violence that came during the mage-templar war. And yet, it's understandable why he got to that point, why he felt it was the only thing he could do. He's cruel and obsessive, but he's also kind and selfless and loving, and that makes him so complex and multifaceted!

Anyway, the DA Fandom has this tendency to have everyone justify their enjoyment of a character according to both in-world and out-of-world politics, and BG3 with all its fucked up, flawed and lovable characters really helped me to consciously divorce myself from that.

[animentality]

You ever think about how the fandom will go nuts trying to explain how Astarion is ~basically~ an elven child and how he’s absolved of all guilt for everything he’s done by the abuse he endured and yet�� on the other hand we also have Gortash, who very literally was a child when sold to the hells and put through who knows what manner of abuse, saw who knows what messed up shit, who has had chances to do better, yes, but has also had to fight to survive and be more than just a beggar on the streets once he escaped. And he’s the totally evil and irredeemable one according to most fans. I’m not trying to woobify him btw, it’s just always interesting how every other character gets defended on the basis of “but cult conditioning/abuse/etc” but Gortash is uniquely the worst man alive. Which he is, but also. Cmon. Astarion has a long list of innocent victims and is a razors edge away from becoming the next cazador in any given play through and yet he’s a perfect uwu angel apparently. This isn’t about saying Gortash isn’t evil, this is about saying he’s not drastically more evil than a lot of other nuanced characters in this game who get defended by the fandom masses.

ANON if I could kiss you, I would commit tax evasion with you.

THIS.

Like I know Gortash is awful, but so is fucking everyone.

Shadowheart can become a Dark Justiciar and do awful things for Shar. Lae'zel and the githyanki are a bunch of pricks who kill their own kids for showing weakness and kill innocent people all the goddamn time. Minthara obviously slaughters a bunch of innocent refugees, if you allow her to, and as a drow, probably committed a cavalcade of evil actions.

Gale's blind ambition could've nuked a fucking town. He might not have intended to become a living bomb, but he did, and by running around Faerun, he WAS putting literally everyone within like five miles of him in mortal danger. Wyll would've killed Karlach if you weren't there, and he expresses this horror, because he has definitely killed innocents for Mizora before.

Astarion would've gladly become Cazador 2.0, if you didn't stop him. He might've started out ok, but he would descend into that same evil, using you until there was nothing left of you, and treating others the way he was treated, because he sees himself as a god now.

Even fucking Karlach...who is a sweetie, and god I love her...well fuck, didn't Gortash accuse her of knowing just how shady his shit was? She was a desperate kid, yes, and he definitely took advantage of her, but he explicitly calls her out for working for him, even though she knew he was shady (if not a Banite). Plus she was his bodyguard for years. As if your bodyguard wouldn't know you were being a peace of shit?

The WHOLE POINT of Baldur's Gate 3 is that you and your companions are defined by your choices.

The option EXISTS to SAVE THESE PEOPLE.

THERE IS NO OPTION TO SAVE GORTASH.

The game gives you the option of seeing him die one way or the other way.

I'm just SAYING it's not totally fair to act as if Gortash is truly irredeemable, when out of all the villains, he at least had an idea of a better world, even if it was still self serving and frankly awful.

He was slightly better than the Dark Urge, and they GET the choice of redeeming themselves.

He never does. And maybe he wouldn't have taken it, but that's really not the point.

You hit the nail on the head, bud.

Gortash is evil, no doubt, this is true, he is not just a victim of circumstances, he made every wrong decision he could've made...

But the fandom has no problem woobifying Astarion even though that scene with Sebastian is fucking soul wrenching.

They raise their hackles at Gortash, as though he's been alive for 200 years and lured thousands to their deaths/vampirism, and they forget that Lae'zel is absolutely awful, and approves every time you murder children in front of her.

And Shadowheart spent her childhood learning to torture people.

You can say well their crimes aren't equivalent- and yes, that is true, HOWEVER.

Remember that you have met them when they were powerless.

If given power...if they had never been mindcontrolled by parasites...well shit, they might've fucking killed you.

They might've become tyrants themselves. I know it's purely conjecture on my part, I just kinda...I don't even necessarily want a redeemed Gortash storyline.

I'm fine with him just being a villain!

I just also have a working brain that doesn't understand the reflexive urge to say, he couldn't redeem himself if he tried.

I think, in this fictional world of course, that redemption should be possible. I think if they are honestly trying, and they repay the debts they incurred, then it might be justified.

But we didn't get that choice, and neither did he, and honestly, with what the game presents...I can whole heartedly say no, he wouldn't have redeemed himself. Even if he could, he would not have done it.

But the possibility does exist.

Trying to deny it makes you look like a hypocrite as you insist Ascended Astarion is still an uwu baby.

Like nah, sweetie. Good luck with that.

[sky-kiss]

Okay, your OC is a love interest, what does their first romance cutscene look like?

A/N: Sassy, this is such an amazing question. I hope it’s alright that I did it for my three main idiots (I have another, but he’s just an old man for Jaheira lol). 

Scrungus: (Cowboy lizard)

Being an Oath of Redemption paladin, Scrungus isn’t overly romantic. He’s very kind, but he’s more focused on the wellbeing of the group. The incident with the goblins leaves him a little down, so he’s melancholy post party. The PC has to seek him out. He gives you a little smile, tips his head. If you offer him wine, he politely declines. 

“Had to be done. Couldn’t have ‘em running along the coast, know that. Still…ain’t sitting right. Coulda done more. Shoulda, I reckon.” 

If you mention you would have liked to dance at the party: “Would have been good to see…ain’t much point killin’ if you’re not enjoy living.” 

If you ask him if he knows how to dance, or would have danced with you, he gives you a little grin. Yeah, he picked it up somewhere along the line. In a little village, years back, after a fight just like this. Used to be pretty good. But don’t hold him to it. He’d hate to step on your toes. 

If you point out that the goblins and the Absolute left you no choice: 

He agrees, but finds it unfortunate. Worse folks have turned their back on evil. 

If you go to hold his hand, he chuckles and moves it away. 

No offense meant, but he’s got one responsibility. Gotta see you through the city. No use muddling things. 

You spend the night talking about your past, his, maybe he tells you a story about some absurd devil or demon he talked round to redemption. It’s ridiculous. He lets the PC lean against his shoulder and doesn’t move them when they doze off against his chest. 

Evoi: (Evil, evil, evil AU!Joi; it’s early, and she’s…untempered) 

Goblin-party only. She’s turned on by the stink of carnage and the way you looked while slaughtering the Grove. She makes this very evident, very early into the party, sidling up to the PC, nosing their throat. 

Blood-slick, hunter-kin—soak in carnage, baptize her in your sweet cries. 

She’s going to fuck you. Consent is optional, sorry. Will lick every drop of blood off your character. It’s a lot of kissing and biting. Going to absolutely devour/go down on the PC. You’re her pet now (and she’s obsessive, crazy, generally the worst). 

Joi: (Amnesia Girl)

Joi still has no idea what’s going on or who she is at this point. The scene will have more variance compared to the above, based largely on player input. Most of  her reactions are going to be emulating the PC’s drive. I.e if you’re interested in talking, she’ll be softer and happily talk, but consistently direct the conversation away from her. If the PC is more forward and wants sex, she’ll fall back into that role. 

Is likely very similar to Astarion in that she’s unsure she wants to have sex at that point, but it feels natural, normal, and a way to like…establish rapport. And since she has nothing personal to offer, why not sex? It’s the best she can do. 

If the PC opts to take things more slowly, she’s comforted. Wants to hold the PC’s hand or sit in their lap/beside them. She’s naturally very physical, and the slow!route still reflects that. If the PC asks whether she enjoyed the party, Joi is puzzled and admits that she doesn’t know. Saving the tieflings felt strange, almost wrong, but she likes it. 

Platonic/Slowburn route: Joi asks your PC to tell her about their life, stroking their hair. She thanks the PC for sharing and kisses them. 

Sex route: Joi is enthusiastic, but distant. Leads the encounter, focused on pleasuring PC. The morning after, she is more conflicted and admits she did not sleep well.