ramiedersedreamer

[ramiedersedreamer]

Hmmmmm...

Candy John lost his home 

Meat John’s home lost its John

[ramiedersedreamer]

Liked the Upd8? Come chat with us!

We’re a small server that enjoys Homestuck^2 and the Epilogues, as well as all things Homestuck. If you want a place to speculate, share your own work and thoughts on the latest upd8s we’d love to have you! 

https://discord.gg/dgMnG6V

When you join check the rules and introduce yourself on the intros channel, there’s a template in the pins but as long as you put a name, pronouns and tell us if you’re 18 or over (for nsfw access) you’re good to go! Please no joining just to stir up trouble or discourse about HS^2, we’re not here for that.

[ramiedersedreamer]

Jade ate Candy to be free of the narrative dominance on her. Alt!Calliope ate Meat (LE) to be narratively empowered.

[ramiedersedreamer]

The Retcon and How Caliborn’s Masterpiece made everything Dubious

I'm going to focus first on the three aspects of the Retcon powers for this breakdown, super 'time travel', teleportation, and later on Canon. I won't get too deep into the effects on the Three pillars of Canon, just Truth. And then at the end my thoughts on Caliborn's Masterpiece and how Caliborn through his Time aspect indirectly caused the misuse of the Retcon ability. Spoilers for Epilogues and Pesterquest too.

I'm so sorry for the long ass post lamo.

John's retcon powers allow him to move himself and anything he touches around the story/narrative itself. It seems like an OP time travel power with no downsides, despite not being time travel at all. Based off of what we've seen it from its use with John and Reader (MSPAR), Retcon gives one the ability to jump to any point in the previously established narrative. That is, any place or time that has been shown/narrated in Homestuck. Even inside Homosuck, a warped fanfiction Caliborn narrated using his control over the story of Homestuck.

The 'time travel' specifically operates within the confines of the currently explored narrative only, and is chronologically tied to a different plane of existence. That is our chronology the audience. We never see see a Retcon user jump forward into the narrative, in like a "Procon". Like, they don't hop into their own future to see what happens, and then pop back to change the outcome, at least not without us the audience and the narrative following them and seeing the 'future' ourselves. We don't have a yet to be seen 'future' Recton user popping in to change the current narrative, Masterpiece aside (I will get to this). Actions taken by characters using the Retcon ability is and can be followed by us, the audience as it happens.

A key difference with the Retcon ability that it acts almost nothing like time travel in the comic. With time travel you can create and unwillingly be 'commanded' (or otherwise doomed) as part of time loops that sustains themselves. Loops that can exist before you perform the time travel itself, because the loop has always existed that way because of shenanigans. A future self shows up and tells you "time travel back to this spot in five minutes and tell yourself my exact words" and bam, you got a time loop that you didn't start but you sure as hell gotta finish if you don't want to be doomed. The Retcon ability doesn't work that way at all! There is no surprise visit from yours or the audiences perspective. You won't see from your perspective a future self because that's always going to be you already. You can only be the future self, and all other you's that you meet are your past selves. One day you decided to Retcon yourself back in time and tell your past self to follow your exact actions. No one told you do that before. And it doesn't matter if past you follows your advice or not, because there is no loop just a single series of events you and the audience follow linearly.

This Retcon ability is so powerful that its own power itself is a flaw, because the act of traveling back in time is permanent to any alpha or doomed timelines. There isn't a concept of a doomed time line to clean up any mess you make with the alpha, it just becomes the new alpha shitty or not. At best, can go back in time and retcon your own retcon. Either way a Retcon will leave some sort of mark there, even if no one notices you.

(And as a side note, I have no idea how paradox space handles an alpha time line that is retconned to no longer be alpha. Pre-rectonned ghosts still persist even if the time line has been changed, and a Retcon user can still access other previously retconned-but-no-longer-alpha time lines like John does in the Epilogue. The full extent of un-retconning a time line isn't fully explored either, if possible at all. As soon as John gained his Retcon powers he causes a retcon to the alpha time line by loosing the Ring of Life, which made its way into Arania's hands and caused Game Over, not to mention his hand poking everything in existence. Would John even be able to warp to the original alpha timeline where he didn't loose the ring/get retcon abilities?)

I said above the user can travel to any place and time inside the narrative, and without time travel that just becomes teleportation. There are examples in the comic, and especially Pesterquest, where the Retcon ability is used without retconning anything at all, but just as a means of moving the story forward to a new location (or escaping something). All and all it acts like conventional teleportation. The Retcon user can jump to entirely new places, unseen in the previous narrative or by the User them self. For a practiced User, this can plop them anywhere they desire.

We have two examples of the Retcon not working.

The first explicit one we've seen was in the Candy Epilogue. At some point between collecting up Gamzee and John's attempt to save Dirk, John just straight up can't use the Retcon anymore. I will note here that John is not trying to jump back into the comic or anywhere outside of the Candy Epilogue to save Dirk. He's just trying to pop back a week. I think he also attempts to teleport with it maybe? Been a while. But either way, we can assume for now that he has lost all aspects of the Retcon ability.

The second in Pesterquest when Reader attempts to 'skip' ahead to see Nepeta they are blocked by an entity, T-Poser. Instead of teleporting to her, Reader ends up in some weird place repeatedly, unable to accomplish their goal. Upon regaining the memories of their friends from Friendsim, they are blocked once again from being able to time travel back to them as well. Both teleportation and time travel are blocked. Of note here is that when Reader acquires their powers, it happens inside of the Pesterquest game itself.

Theories!

One possible theory for Candy!John's blocked powers is that he is no longer part of the 'Homestuck Canon', and the House Juju's granted abilities only work inside that Canon. Use of the Retcon cannot jump between two different 'Canons'. When John grabbed Gamzee the 'Canon' split between Meat and Candy was dubious. By the time John wanted to prevent Dirk's death, the 'Canons' were fully split apart. This theory clashes with, or confirms the powers and limitations of Retcon in Pesterquest depending on how you look at it. Aradia states that Reader is in not just a doomed timeline, but a doomed universe. Using their abilities Reader has removed the 'Truth' pillar from the universe in the same way that John not using his ability removed the 'Truth' from Candy. Of course, there can be unknown variables at work here that allow this doomed Pesterquest universe to still have access to the Juju's power that aren't in Candy (like the Juju presenting Reader their powers in the Game/narrative).

John's ability loss could be because anything inside the black hole is cut from any sort of Canon changing power (and maybe John was only able to grab Gamzee because the Candy timeline wasn't fully 'transferred' into the black hole at the time). This would imply that the Retcon power comes from a source, and that it transmits to the user in such a way that it can be blocked off. This would also mean that those who have the Retcon power will always have the ability to use that power, assuming it isn't blocked off.

Alt!Calliope could be using her narrative powers to suppress John's abilities either selectively or completely, preventing the attempt to save Dirk (don't think any further attempts are mentioned?). As noted before John wasn't trying to jump back into the Homestuck or Meat Canon, he was trying to retcon inside Candy and Candy alone when he was stopped. This would mean certain powers can completely suppress the OP Retcon abilities, regardless of the Retcon users will. With this we don't know if Alt!Calliope has removed John's power completely, or if she is just blocking it temporarily and he can continue using the Retcon power once she stops narrating Candy.

This matches up with what we've seen in Pesterquest. Who or whatever is preventing Reader from using their abilities to the full effect of their will. T-Poser even tells Reader "Stop fucking trying to skip ahead. It's not going to work." after several attempts at meeting Nepeta before her chapter was released. This T-Poser, instead of shutting down the powers completely, is selectively allowing the Reader to use it to continue the narrative in PQ. While Readers inability to time travel back into Friendsims to see their friends could be seen as 'not being able to jump between canons', it seems just as likely the T-Posers doing. Another possibility is that when one (who still can use their Retcon powers) trys jumping to another canon they are brought to that strange hallway and T-Poser instead. Maybe T-Poser is the source of the Retcon power instead of a narrater? (Or maybe both, Andrew Hussie)

Finally we come to the conspiracy part of this conspiracy-turned-retcon-mechanics-wordvomit.

I think Caliborn's Masterpiece was a Truth Paradox, and it's why the Epilogues and everything after that point are and should be considered dubiously canon. You can't retcon a story that hasn't happened yet, and yet Caliborn narrated it into some weird Truth of Canon. Caliborn's whole THING is time loops, the undeniable truth and essentiality that these loops must be filled or doomed away. And Caliborn, that fucker, his fault or not applied that concept to the only form of time travel that can't have any loops. Hammered in the square into the circle hole.

John is our anchor in this story, we follow his path as he changes things via Retcon. This is true for the entier comic, and for Reader in Pesterquest. Both our timeline and the Main Character's timeline increment together. Maybe not consistently between updates or whatnot, but our timelines are both always going forward together (Flashbacks don't count shush). In the Masterpiece this isn't true. We have a John from the future show up. An unknown. This John has traveled back from an unknown future story, we do not know him. He could be John five minutes after winning Sburb, June in her 40's, John in his 20's, or ultimate!self June who's been alive for a thousand years. But he isn't our John. Any John/June could fill in that clay doll so long as they possess the Retcon ability (or have some way of showing up with "ghost powers"). Hell, even a look alike could, I double Caliborn would know the difference.Any of those clay dolls could be any version of the characters they represent, or look alikes. To further obscure things, when Caliborn is retelling the tale it isn't from personal experience. He hasn't fought the kids at all and it isn't happening to him as he narrates. No, a screen showed him the supposed battle. "I SAW IT ONCE, ON ONE OF MY PLANET'S MANY SCREENS. THE LAND OF "COLOURS". AND THE LAND OF "MAYHEM"." Can we even trust this supposed retelling of an event that happened on a screen? A screen that may or may not have been showing the truth?All these factors make the Masterpiece highly unreliable. The most unreliable Homestuck has ever been. I'm reminded of Equius's Pesterquest route. The moment Reader decides to hop backwards in time to see how Equius broke his horn, we are not given a single cause. Instead, Reader enters into dubious canonical territory showing multiple canons where Equius lost his horn. I think this exactly what the Masterpiece is, and why it's true form was never shown in the comic. Why it had that weird inconstancy with John's Retcon and why the 'Canon' Meat Epilogue addressed it. Even Candy, by using the power of two entier universes in the form of a blackhole to keep these characters alive in a pocket dimension by addressing it indirectly. Like I said, any John/June could fulfil the requirements that the Masterpiece needs to complete the Story. And all of those June's and John's will be, if narrated, the anchor and the true original future John/June predeterminately retconning the story. Every way Equius lost his horn is true: Every way the Masterpiece is and will be narrated/addressed is true.

[ramiedersedreamer]

Who is the Candy Narrator in HS^2?

Since HS2 is happening before the end of the Candy Epilogue I've thought of a couple things for why we are able to peer into it. Possibly alt!Calliope narrated the events of HS2 during her stay inside the black hole, and it's just being shown to us now. Could be Dirk, or some third person (or people).

From the description on the Patreon we can assume that the characters in Candy will at some point be trying to escape the black hole.

But inside the black hole, those who the paradox once discarded seek to claw back to relevance and escape to the Fanontinuum, a new fabric of story and space woven by the hands of new narrators, thousands of voices that fill the vacuum left by the death of the author.

Now 'fanontinuum' could mean a couple things in relation to HS2's story. It could be a completely different, selfcontained multi-universe of Homestuck unrelated to the Meat Universe. Or, Meat itself is a part of this 'fanontinuum'. Since the beginning of HS2 contains a reference to the fanfic Pony Pals I'll assume for now that Meat in it's entirety is part of the fanontinuum and those in Candy will be clawing their way out into Meat.

This is directly opposed to the line alt!Calliope gave us in the postscripts, 'Never again the twain shall meet'. This leaves me thinking that if the Candy side of HS2 is narrated by her, she plans on sending out her key players (Omega kids + whoever) before she leaves Candy, allowing her statement to stay true to her intentions.

Now that's all nice and tidy as a theory, but I don't think that alt!Calliope is the one narrating in HS2 (yet). What I believe to be happening is more in line with narration-related shenanigans that I believe HS2 will be the focus of.

Someone else is narrating the unnarrated sections of the Candy Epilogue, after alt!Calliope has left. Something kinda like a retcon that doesn't change anything in the original text, instead they are inserting their own story into the untouched areas that alt!Calliope never mentioned in her record of Candy, a 'flashback'. (The first example I can think of would be what the novel Ender's Shadow did to Ender's Game (which are books I grew up with before learning that Scott Card was a big old homophobe))

Who this narrator is, is beyond me at the moment.

It could be Dirk, stretching his narrative powers into the black hole now that alt!Calliope is gone. That said, I don't really know the 'reach' of his own powers, the longest range we've seen is the battle with LE just outside of the blackhole. I don't know if he can author in his own flashback, aside from maybe what he did in Pony Pals? (Which was more of a complete rewrite, and was in a physical book of his not his own real life narration) I can safely assume that information at least can escape and enter the blackhole due to John's cellphone, if Dirk needs some kind of feedback for his narrative powers to work. The black hole itself could act as a natural barrier to his powers though, but it could have been just alt!Calliope's powers blocking him while she was present. What his motivations for wanting to pull out certain people from Candy I can't really be certain of (kids to play his sburb session maybe?).

Alternatively there could be some unseen narrator taking advantage of the narrative gaps alt!Calliope left behind, whatever their motivations may be to free the Candy folks into Meat. They too, would be narrating this 'flashback' after alt!Calliope has left. Or they could be someone alt!Calliope has entrusted Candy to, and were narrating alongside her (until she left, which would mean our batch of characters would presumably be escaping after she's gone).

Lastly, the Candy side of HS2 could (currently) be entirely without a single overseeing narrator dictating characters and their actions. I'm not sure this theory is likely, given how things have been set up in the Epilogues. Had we started observing the story of Candy in HS2 after the postscript of the Epilogue, as opposed to before alt!Calliope's exit, it may have been the case that there is no narrator at all. Instead we are seeing a story in Candy well before the main narrator of the Candy universe has left. Seem's too suspicious to me...

[ramiedersedreamer]

Panels and text, their effect on narration

(This was a theory I posted on the homestuck.xyz forums and wanted to post here too)

There have been critiques in a couple placed about how Homestuck^2 describes in its text narration the same things happening in the picture panels. I fell like this additional narration is an intentional thing that will be played around with later on.

In Homestuck the story itself revolved around the concepts of the unyeilding nature of time; the alpha timeline, doomed timelines, time loops and what have you. The Epilogues served, as Andrew described it, as a bridge between stories (which I will also take a moving from one concept to another). It cleaned up loose ends to keep the timeloop stable and 'canon', and then focused moreso on what Homesick previously began poking at before: the narrative.

I believe Homestuck^2 will be focusing heavily on the concepts of narration as it's main concept of tomfoolery. Who the narrator is, their limits and powers on a story, and just plain messing around and subverting the concept. By having the narration plainly speak about what's already happening in the panels the writers are demonstrating and setting up the relationship between what we see happening in the panels and what we read happening in the narrators voice.

We saw previously at the start of HS2 that Dirk was both writing the narration and creating the panels for us to see too (quite literally). He was the single narrator showing us his own happenings going on in Meat. I have no doubts that further into the story we will begin to see the panels (the wordless narration) and the text (the uhh, wordy narration) start to diverge as our narrators begin to fight for control.

The text describing what we already see happening in the panels is a clear sign to me that they are trying to establish a status quo of unity between the panels and narration. A false unity.

[ramiedersedreamer]

Perfection in music form

[S] Dave: Engage Super Bass

Uploading this directly to Tumblr because Youtube won’t lemme holla’.

My YT Channel -> more Homestuck parodies coming up in the future =D

Mp3 Download

[ramiedersedreamer]

Amy, the Seer of Hope.

I was originally going to make her a Seer of Heart, but yellow is definitely more her color. Hope fits her just as well.

Amy is from Space Boy, on Webtoon. It's super good, I promise. I may do one of Oliver when the mood strikes again.

[ramiedersedreamer]

Very out of practice drawing to celebrate Aradia's route coming out. Art still sketchy as fuck. Bluh.

[ramiedersedreamer]

Ranting in the Discord about the Homestuck Patreon cash flow, figured I'd copy past it here

The way I see it is they priced out each update at $2000, if they assumed all of their patreons picked the lowest tier. I choose this number because at 2000 patreons at $2 they would be earning $4000 and would then produce a second update per month at presumably the same length.

Let's just round down and say updates are 20 pages each. That means out of the $2000 per update it costs 100$ per page for art, writing, domain/sever coats, and a fee for the manager/director. Google says writing can pay between 0.10-1.00 per word (let's assume they freelance per word for this) so let's call it 0.50 per. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.clearvoice.com/blog/how-much-to-pay-a-freelance-writer/amp/

The first twenty pages of the latest update, pages 33-52, are 2427 words at an average of 121 per page. 121*0.50 That's a little over 60$ for writing, leaving 40$ per panel for art, domain/sever costs, and whatever Aysha/whoever is getting for acting as director/manager. Keep in mind that is a lower estimate for page count too. All and all that's a fair rate of pay per page.

Any additional cash above that $2000, from patreons who donated for higher tiers, then goes to paying for bonus panels (assuming 8 every update with the same word density, don't feel like copy pasting again for the word count) which is $800, and then the cost of putting together the commentary, whatever that looks like for word counts and additional artwork (which would probably be priced on the lower end of 0.10 per word and a cheaper prices for art/sketches). After all that, the rest of the money left over is funneled into WhatPumpkin paying for Peaterquest, Hiveswap, and whatever else WP is working on.

I understand not liking the content of HS2, or not wanting to fund Hiveswap again after that whole disaster. Even the fear that the bonus content locked behind the $5 Patreon might not be fluff and could be important to the story is a valid concern. But all this money talk about the Patreon donations is just getting exhausting to read and is irrelevant to discussing Homestuck 2's story. Day one they said the money was not going to be spent on just the work for HS2 in the Patreon description.

This Patreon supports What Pumpkin and all authors and artists on this project. Additional funding beyond what's required to create the project will support new projects from What Pumpkin, and a portion of the proceeds will be directly shared with the creative contributors to this comic.

There is no conspiracy. No one is double dipping by having their own Patreons for their own personal projects outside of WP, or having other jobs they do. Irregardless of how much anyone on the team is making from their other jobs or Patrons, wether they're swimming in cash or poor, they deserve to be paid fairly for their work on HS2 (yes, even if you don't like their work on HS2). If you don't think they should be paid, don't donate to the Patreon. But stop whining about it all the time! Free shit is still gonna come out either way for everyone.