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Tried to leave a comment on someone's post today on tumblr...got an error... I wonder if it is a glitch of some sort🤔

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If Brenner was forgiven by his abuse victim before he died, Billy Hargrove was not irredeemable

If Neil Hargrove was allowed to quietly slip away after everything he did to Billy, Max and Susan, Billy Hargrove’s death was not penance

If Karen Wheeler was given the editing of one of the heroes in series four, Billy Hargrove was not logically a villain (which he literally wasn’t in narrative) or even an antagonist

If Henry Creel was allowed a faux sympathetic/tragic backstory, Billy Hargrove’s backstory should have given him at the very least the audiences sympathy, if not more

And if Steve, Nancy, Jonathan’s actions (in s1 for Steve and Jonathan, in s2-4 for Nancy) allowed them not only to be redeemed but to be the main protagonists of the older teens, Billy Hargrove was not “too far gone”

That is to say that ALL of these characters created more harm than Billy in narrative and yet it’s the teenage boy who never escaped his abuser who’s “evil”

Just something to think about

@stranger-rants @thediktatortot @gracegrove @adelacreations @shieldofiron @80svhstapes @mrsblackruby @hargrove-mayfields

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STRANGER THINGS 4 4.08 "Papa"

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They give off massive sibling energy to me😄 Maybe it's the hair idk, the puppy eyes, Eden (Heaven) vs (Hell)fire, they are both alt

The vibe is vibing

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Although they're talking about different faults (moving to Hawkins/flaying people) here but it's kind of interesting that this whole FAULT theme is highlighted in both seasons. I feel like Billy actually feels guilty (although he's not guilty, moving was Neil's decision) in S2 but it's too hard for him to admit it because duh, he's been through so much to process things adequately.

And in s3 it's even more unbearable because someone's using his body to hurt people and he can't do anything about it and probably blames himself for it.

It's also interesting how Max's "Yours [fault]" changes to "I believe you" through the series. This might be the sign that their relationship improved between seasons two and three.

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I was rewatching scenes of Billy and Max and when the "You disobeyed me. And you know what happens when you disobey me. I break things" played it struck me that Billy was probably referring to him breaking Nate's arm in Runaway Max. I can't believe how I didn't put two and two together right away but OH MY GOD

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🥺🥺🥺❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

“And I... I was with my band?” “Corroded Coffin!” “Corro-- you do remember!” “Oh my god! Yes, no, of course! With a name like that, how could I forget?” “I dunno, you're a freak.”

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Are we ever gonna talk about the fact that Billy straight up lied to Neil and Susan about Max's whereabouts, even though he knew full well she was off somewhere with Lucas?

He literally told Karen he went to Lucas's house first because he thought she was there. But he lied to Neil and said he didn't know where she went, even though he had a good idea of where she would be.

Susan's child is missing, she's clearly worried, and he deliberately withheld information.

This is the face of man who is about to lie.

"I'm sure she just, I dunno, went to the arcade or something. I'm sure she's fine."

You know where she is. And you're covering it up.

And he wasn't even concerned. He only got mad because it caused him problems.

I'm sure he was protecting himself and Max at that moment, Not only did he withhold information, he didn't bother to cooperate with Neil and Susan in any way that would help them find Max either.

Why do you think that is

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Wish we could get to a point where the ST fandom collectively understood that trauma isn’t just something that happened to Billy, but that it was in progress the entire time he was alive. There was no definitive end point. He didn’t have a traumatic childhood. He was having a traumatic childhood. He wasn’t abused in the past, and then just decided to hurt other people because of it. He was being abused, and he had no healthy coping mechanisms to deal with it. Billy’s life is a trauma response. He was always reacting to trauma, because he was always being traumatized. It wasn’t just incidental, and even Billy’s attempts to escape it had negative consequences. You can’t overcome something that’s still happening to you.

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Are you stupid?

You can be racist and have POC friends, Jason is way worse than Billy any day. Jason isn't the one being abused by his father everyday, he isn't poor, he didn't get taken from his home and live with a step sibling that he didn't know that well.

Jason is a horrible person and got his friend to tackle Erica, then he held a gun at Lucas. You can't tell me that that isn't racist, you can't tell me that's worse than what Billy ever did. Jason said "I thought you were one of the good ones". That. Is. Racist.

Billy got his bad traits from his father. Billy got beat by his father. Billy was crying into the phone for his mom to come home. Billy had no support system. Steve was the only person that Billy bullied and tormented, and in my opinion, Steve is a worse character than Billy.

Steve threw slurs, while Billy got slurs thrown at him by his own father. Just because you don't care about abuse victims, doesn't mean you have to spread your hate.

I think that Billy just wanted Lucas to stop hanging around because if Neil found out, Billy would be the one getting beat. Neil would probably hurt Lucas way more than Billy could have ever done. Billy was protecting Max and himself, he was scared that Neil would find out. He did care and love Max, he just showed it in some confusing ways.

Also, the Duffer brothers are racist, they wanted Dacre to say the N word. Dacre protested and it ended up not happening. Billy saying the N word isn't canon, cause it didn't happen in the show. Stop always going to that excuse for him being a bad person. He never said any slur.

People say "if the actor wasn't hot, then people wouldn't have liked him" and I disagree. His character is very interesting. He has a backstory, he has trauma, he has an actual interesting plot unlike any other character. Dacre is also a very amazing actor, he was able to make Billy even more interesting.

Dacre has said that his art imitates his life. He put his own life into the character, he didn't have a great relationship with his dad, he has said this.

Max is a horrible person too, she drugged Billy with something that she didn't know was in, almost hit him with Steve's bat, screamed at him before leaving and stealing his car. Billy could have died on the floor, he was drugged and had no car. Tell me that that isn't abuse. Just because Billy grabbed her wrist ONE time, doesn't mean it's abuse.

Siblings fight all the time, it's just what happens. Especially how their family dynamics was. I and many others have fights with our siblings. You get over it in like a day. That doesn't make Billy a bad person. He did some really shitty things, yes. But that doesn't excuse all the hate he gets. He's a complex character, no other character is like him.

That's why he's my baby boy. I relate to him, I'm an abuse victim, I love knowing that I have a character to relate to. Stop blaming abuse victims on how they grew up, they can change. He could have changed if he didn't die. He could have, but nobody let him.

Nobody tried to help him. He didn't have a support system. The people who compare Jonathan to Billy are wild, cause Jonathan did have a support system, his mother did so much. Billy had nobody. His father beat him, hi stepmother did NOTHING to stop Neil, she just watched. She was clearly abused too, but she's the adult, she has to be there for Billy. She has to get Max away from all of this, which in season 4, she did. But she turned into an even worse mom.

Right here. He was trying to get help, he was trying to get the MF to get out. He wanted someone to help him. He kept fighting, and that's how he saved everyone on the day he died. He knew he was going to die, he was sobbing.

Try to think before talking bad against Billy.

Why do people say Vecna/Henry/Jason/Troy/James/Angela are better than Billy?

Vecna/Henry literally tried to kill children and the whole world. Billy wanted to have some fun and games, he would never go to prison for killing a child. He was never going to hit Mike, Lucas, Dustin, or Will.

Troy/James made Mike jump off of a fucking cliff while wanting to take Dustins teeth out. Tell me that isn't fucked. MIKE WOULD HAVE DIED IF EL WASN'T THERE!!

Jason held a fucking gun to Lucas's head and got Erica hurt. He sent a witch-hunt over Eddie and that ended up killing that poor boy. Literally, he was poor and Jason is a rich christian white boy. Tell me that isn't classist. Jason also did this to get information out of a kid.

Angela deserved the roller skate to the face for what she did to El. I would have done the same thing, El never deserved any of what she went through there.

Anyone going to object? Cause you can't, my points are spot on. Why aren't we gonna get mad at Jamie Campbell Bower over saying he relates to Vecna/Henry? If Dacre is bad for doing so, why can't we shame Jamie for the same thing?

I would count the MF taking over Billy like that as a reference of sexual assault. His body gets taken away from him, he is crying for help, he is scared and tried to tell someone. I've talked to SA survivors and they agree.

Anyway, I am pissed at Billy antis and I am just so done with them.

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My childhood crush🌹

Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust

dir. Yoshiaki Kawajiri, 2000

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Max compares Billy to Michael Myers

Max when Halloween rolls around:

Billy calls her ‘Mad Max’

Max:

it’s the little sisterism, i don’t know what to tell you

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😭😭😭

thinking about how Max rested her head on Billy's lifeless body after he died and how she'd never gotten a chance to get that close to him or ever hold him while he was alive :)))))

how he looked into her eyes until the moment he died so her eyes are the last thing he saw before dying :))))))))

how she continued to pointlessly shake him while resting her head on him, even after knowing he was gone :)))))))))))

and how she probably wouldn't have left his body if El didn't take her into her arms to comfort her :)))))))))))))))

And the way her hand gripped into his shoulder as they were separated because she didn't want to LOSE HIM :))))))))))))))))))))))

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My OTP😘

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From Runaway Max we learn that after Neil beat Billy Max wanted to tend to his wounds, to apply ice but Billy told her to stay away.

And here Heather wanted to help him too and he refuses...because his father taught him that getting help from women is a sign of being a p*ssy.

This realization hit me like a lightning

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When you remember that out of 4 of them only El is alive (Max is too technically but still, the damage is big) it's even more tragic

#they cared