hydr9

[hydr9]

no one asked but i'm gonna talk about born to be

This album gave me so many conflicting feelings. Everyone has been saying since the last few comebacks that Itzy just needs a good song. Like, they're extremely talented, it's their songs that have been the problem, and if you give them a good song, they'll be back to greatness.

Well. I think untouchable was a good song. Not great, but good, and fit Itzy's image.

Here's the problem: why are their voices... not actually that good?

There's something vixxxo on yt said about aespa's my world album that I end up coming back to a lot: aespa's music is pulled together by the fact that they just have fucking amazing voices.

Personally, I feel similarly about Nmixx. That's why I'm so anti the sentiment that their talent is "being wasted" on weird and unique concepts---everything about them is pulled together by their fucking amazing voies (AND amazing dance, performing, etc)

Itzy, on the other hand... I don't know if this is mean, but honestly, I think that's what they're missing. Their voices just aren't that powerful. Not bad, of course, but not unbeatable. And the songs they're getting are extremely powerful. And I hear a lot of... screaming. (born to be prechorus, untouchable chorus, cheshire chorus, ringo chorus, etc etc)

Itzy are performance powerhouses, there's no doubt about it, and they're talented, but the thought that struck me of: "this song would be better, if it was given to another group"... surprised me!!!

But, this is why I stick by my last opinions about itzy. It's not about the music. It's about the approach. They need something special. And honestly, I do kind of think they're a good fit for something a little silly (ex. cake).

BUT IN THE END, IT'S NOT THAT DEEP! Kill my doubt was great from start to finish, I still listen to it, Born to be was so-so but with a few hits and a great concept refresher that I think everyone enjoyed seeing on itzy, (especially the born to be dance) and I generally have pretty good hopes for them.

[hydr9]

mixx university was AWESOME and this performance got me thinkin that pick n mixx could thrive with subunits 🫣

[hydr9]

i stand corrected: itzy has TWO strengths their creative team needs to be utilizing more: dance AND *this* unique brand of concept.

it's hard to see this strength when their concepts have been so lackluster for the past couple comebacks---itzy gets pigeonholed a lot. itzys concept is this or that, or they always stick to the same thing, or this doesnt feel like itzy anymore; people are very attached to itzy as an idea.

~~more itzy thoughts below the cut~~

thats the thing that makes then unique and hard to get a grasp on: their concept is intertwined with them. it's a double-edged sword. on one hand, they have what everyone wants: a memorable brand that people associate with YOUR name. on the other, the requirements are so specific and subjective and it's very easy to fall out of grace if people don't feel like they're seeing YOU anymore.

mafia in the morning was too over-the-top and silly, sneakers wasn't strong enough to be them. cheshire had none of the feeling of itzy, cake felt like it was trying too hard to be itzy again.

but one thing i'll give this phenomenon with itzy is this: people have their eyes on them. people know who they are and whether they have given up or not, they care. because itzy have made a name for themselves and i guess that means they still have the chance to rise up from the ashes or whatever. the kpop industry moves fast enough for public opinion to change again.

but this concept: RINGO... it does what it does with intention and with efficiency!! even without reading the translated lyrics as a non-japanese speaker i got the gist. a sort of "i'm no snow white i'm no princess i control my story" type of message. THIS IS EPIC

with the lush sultry delicious glowing colors and the styling and the dark eye makeup and freshly bitten red lips... the sound of the song and the calls at the end and yuna's rap and the pronounciation in "bring me RRRINGO"

cake was fun, but cake is as i said it was earlier: it felt like they were trying to bring something back. they were trying to revive "old itzy." fun, quirky, young. it was fun! and if i didn't get this feeling that itzy themselves AND their team are trying for something more, i can enjoy it for what it is.

part of the reason it's hard to enjoy itzy's newer releases (even as someone who has been listening to cake AND loves the entire ep--and i've never listened to itzys bsides before) is because everything they're doing is screaming panic. and you can feel it through the screen. they're clearly trying at something and failing. they're clearly scared of the public's reaction. they're clearly clawing for the success and love of their debut era.

that just can't happen in this state. they need to let loose and do something fresh and let it be itzy's.

in summary... bring me ringo ringo ringo

[hydr9]

honestly, this is a good analysis but i do feel like it relies a lot on the quality and production of the music which is subjective. i would say itzys downfall is caused more by trends... every release since their mafia in the morning has been screaming panic. it's always a response to something, not a direction. jype cant keep strangling itzys image into each new trend and out of what people are hating on them for. they have to find something thats ITZYS. they simply cant compete with the new girl groups at the top, and theres no chance they'll relive their debut/rookie era success. the environment of kpop right now just won't allow it. they need their own game. and its so sad to see the girls get tugged in every direction while they just have to trust that something will land. they're not shining at all in their latest releases. in their debut era, they all stood out, it really showcased their specialties. now, it almost feels sad to watch. i dont want to feel like that when i watch them! because they ARE so talented and i can see that they're driven and they care so much more than jype's releases make them seem.

and i second the comments that say the degradation in performance is DEFINITELY part of it. yes, itzy physically needs a break and they need to take care of themselves. but this is an entertainment industry and they have something special, and it's definitely not whatever new concepts they're doing and it's definitely NOT vocals and mid tier dances. i say if they really take back the respect they had as dancers and performers then they have something on their hands. right now, they have nothing. there are wayyyy to many cracks showing and it's hard to watch. i hope jype can do better for the girls and all the hard work them and their teams have put into this instead of just abandoning them for something new.

(reupload from like a week ago cause i accidentally deleted it oops)

[hydr9]

also!!!! i want to emphasize that fans reactions to these kinds of things is Part of the industry!!!! fans loving an idol so much and coming to their defense and promoting them so that they have more opportunities is all part of this. when it comes to members with less screen time, less lines, less fame, anything. dont forget that the fanbases and their reactions are always a part of it.

the perception of all-rounders and "out-of-place" members in kpop

I watch a lot of full-focused/choreo-focused cams of groups, and 2day I got sucked into a small itzy choreo-cam rabbit hole, and now I'm in the mood to talk out of my ass.

itzy, obviously, as a group of their fame and status, has a lot of expectations, and a constant flood of commentary, praise, and criticism.

so, as the resident advocate for simplification, let me simplify it for you: itzy is a performance-based group

its not about having the best vocals, its about having good and stable vocals. its not about being able to sing flawlessly and with good technique and unique color, its about having good power that you can execute while doing equally good high-energy choreo.

and lia, as we've seen, faces a shitton of criticism. her vocals are too weak, her dancing is too weak, she's out of place in itzy. this gets thrown at soo many different idols, and i honestly think its mostly a downright stupid take. with how cutthroat the trainee system is, and especially with how small itzy is, do you not think there is intention behind every choice?

lia has something to offer that no one else in itzy does. that's the point. it's not about every member excelling at everything---something kpop stans seem to be obsessed with nowadays---its about being greater than the sum of all your parts.

thats why its a group. all-rounders or aces are special, of course, and theyre to be admired, but theyre not necessary. it doesnt make a group better than any other group. positions can be limiting, sure, but its important to acknowledge a member's strengths. before a group becomes famous enough that each idol will be known for what they are good at, they all have a role. something to take care of individually so that when they are together, they mesh and perform something that is the unique combination of them.

lia has this sweet, romantic, honey-voice quality that the other members dont. there are definitely some performances where her stage presence is weaker than others but she is absolutely not incapable of having a special aura about her while shes on stage. her dancing is not as powerful as the rest of the girls. but then again, for example, yuna's voice isnt as powerful as hers either. and ryujin can't capture her sweet and honey-like aura.

being an 'all-rounder' doesnt make you better at any of this. doesnt make you stand out. doesnt give the audience something to chew on, when you have average-to-good singing, dancing, and rapping skills. when idols are pigeonholed into this position, it almost makes me feel more like they dont have any actual standout skills rather than that they are actually good at everything.

this is why, for example, han from stray kids and soyeon from gidle are not all-rounders/aces just because they sing rap and dance (which most idols do, for the record). it's because they have something special to offer in each of these things. they are rappers (something many idols cant claim). and they are singers. they are all of these things, they dont just possess the capability of all of them. this might seem arbitrary and like im just picking at semantics, but i hope my point picks up.

rm from bts, for example, has a good voice. but for most of his career, he was only seen as one thing: a rapper. he didnt fight that, wasnt necessarily trying to break out of that box. he was a rapper, and that was the one thing he really cared about. he dances because he's part of an idol group. he doesn't sing, because that's not what he does. people joked about it, but no one tried to claim he was talentless because all he did was rap.

and then he released his fools cover with jungkook, and the fans were Amazed. years of joke-bad singing, and suddenly, he is singing. maybe his voice is not as strong or versatile as jungkook, but he had his moment to show another skill, and it wasnt a bad thing. because he didnt have to be good at singing. he was good enough at rapping. there wasnt any shame in that, to have one skill, one thing to be proficient at that no one can argue.

and what is this tangent to say? its that now, if an idol is bad at something, its as if its a great shame. its a great shame to say, they're the main vocal, it's okay if their dance isn't as strong as others. they're the main rapper, it's okay if their voice isn't that strong. and any combination of these things!!

i don't understand kpop fans attachment to taking any group you like, or want to support and always claiming it's a group of all-rounders. they're all always main vocals, dancers, rappers, visuals. i don't think there's any pride in that.

i think it's great to let some members step out of the spotlight when there's something they're not good at. i think it's okay, and it should again be acceptable for an idol to joke that they're not a good dancer, or a good singer. and yes, it's never okay to bully or harass or insult them, but i don't think fans should act as if there's shame in it. aren't you making it worse? to say, fuck you, my idol is better, they're all-around perfect singers, rappers, AND dancers? as if being one of these titles isn't enough pride?

and this all goes into my problem with the hate towards lia. maybe there is members of groups that are shoved into a concept that doesnt suit them. but before you jump to that, acknowledge the value they have in that group. how they can show that concept in a way no one else can.

how seungmin from stray kids, with his "pure and romantic" image can portray thunderous, an aggressive and loud song, in a way changbin with his "tough rapper" image can't. how eunchae with her young and cute image can portray antifragile in a way that yunjin with her confident and powerful image cant.

in fact, even chaeryeong has a feminine and graceful quality to her dancing that's different than yeji's powerful and precise one, and even to ryujin's fluid and heavy one.

in FACT, imagine how the fuck seventeen, a group with THIRTEEN MEMBERS, manages to have SO many different concepts, and still manages to excel at all of them, with no one feeling out of place. because there's an intent and a positive to every member, no matter how different they seem.

as usual i'll always end by unnecessarily praising seventeen. have a nice day

[hydr9]

the perception of all-rounders and "out-of-place" members in kpop

I watch a lot of full-focused/choreo-focused cams of groups, and 2day I got sucked into a small itzy choreo-cam rabbit hole, and now I'm in the mood to talk out of my ass.

itzy, obviously, as a group of their fame and status, has a lot of expectations, and a constant flood of commentary, praise, and criticism.

so, as the resident advocate for simplification, let me simplify it for you: itzy is a performance-based group

its not about having the best vocals, its about having good and stable vocals. its not about being able to sing flawlessly and with good technique and unique color, its about having good power that you can execute while doing equally good high-energy choreo.

and lia, as we've seen, faces a shitton of criticism. her vocals are too weak, her dancing is too weak, she's out of place in itzy. this gets thrown at soo many different idols, and i honestly think its mostly a downright stupid take. with how cutthroat the trainee system is, and especially with how small itzy is, do you not think there is intention behind every choice?

lia has something to offer that no one else in itzy does. that's the point. it's not about every member excelling at everything---something kpop stans seem to be obsessed with nowadays---its about being greater than the sum of all your parts.

thats why its a group. all-rounders or aces are special, of course, and theyre to be admired, but theyre not necessary. it doesnt make a group better than any other group. positions can be limiting, sure, but its important to acknowledge a member's strengths. before a group becomes famous enough that each idol will be known for what they are good at, they all have a role. something to take care of individually so that when they are together, they mesh and perform something that is the unique combination of them.

lia has this sweet, romantic, honey-voice quality that the other members dont. there are definitely some performances where her stage presence is weaker than others but she is absolutely not incapable of having a special aura about her while shes on stage. her dancing is not as powerful as the rest of the girls. but then again, for example, yuna's voice isnt as powerful as hers either. and ryujin can't capture her sweet and honey-like aura.

being an 'all-rounder' doesnt make you better at any of this. doesnt make you stand out. doesnt give the audience something to chew on, when you have average-to-good singing, dancing, and rapping skills. when idols are pigeonholed into this position, it almost makes me feel more like they dont have any actual standout skills rather than that they are actually good at everything.

this is why, for example, han from stray kids and soyeon from gidle are not all-rounders/aces just because they sing rap and dance (which most idols do, for the record). it's because they have something special to offer in each of these things. they are rappers (something many idols cant claim). and they are singers. they are all of these things, they dont just possess the capability of all of them. this might seem arbitrary and like im just picking at semantics, but i hope my point picks up.

rm from bts, for example, has a good voice. but for most of his career, he was only seen as one thing: a rapper. he didnt fight that, wasnt necessarily trying to break out of that box. he was a rapper, and that was the one thing he really cared about. he dances because he's part of an idol group. he doesn't sing, because that's not what he does. people joked about it, but no one tried to claim he was talentless because all he did was rap.

and then he released his fools cover with jungkook, and the fans were Amazed. years of joke-bad singing, and suddenly, he is singing. maybe his voice is not as strong or versatile as jungkook, but he had his moment to show another skill, and it wasnt a bad thing. because he didnt have to be good at singing. he was good enough at rapping. there wasnt any shame in that, to have one skill, one thing to be proficient at that no one can argue.

and what is this tangent to say? its that now, if an idol is bad at something, its as if its a great shame. its a great shame to say, they're the main vocal, it's okay if their dance isn't as strong as others. they're the main rapper, it's okay if their voice isn't that strong. and any combination of these things!!

i don't understand kpop fans attachment to taking any group you like, or want to support and always claiming it's a group of all-rounders. they're all always main vocals, dancers, rappers, visuals. i don't think there's any pride in that.

i think it's great to let some members step out of the spotlight when there's something they're not good at. i think it's okay, and it should again be acceptable for an idol to joke that they're not a good dancer, or a good singer. and yes, it's never okay to bully or harass or insult them, but i don't think fans should act as if there's shame in it. aren't you making it worse? to say, fuck you, my idol is better, they're all-around perfect singers, rappers, AND dancers? as if being one of these titles isn't enough pride?

and this all goes into my problem with the hate towards lia. maybe there is members of groups that are shoved into a concept that doesnt suit them. but before you jump to that, acknowledge the value they have in that group. how they can show that concept in a way no one else can.

how seungmin from stray kids, with his "pure and romantic" image can portray thunderous, an aggressive and loud song, in a way changbin with his "tough rapper" image can't. how eunchae with her young and cute image can portray antifragile in a way that yunjin with her confident and powerful image cant.

in fact, even chaeryeong has a feminine and graceful quality to her dancing that's different than yeji's powerful and precise one, and even to ryujin's fluid and heavy one.

in FACT, imagine how the fuck seventeen, a group with THIRTEEN MEMBERS, manages to have SO many different concepts, and still manages to excel at all of them, with no one feeling out of place. because there's an intent and a positive to every member, no matter how different they seem.

as usual i'll always end by unnecessarily praising seventeen. have a nice day

[hydr9]

im going to rain on everyones parade. seventeen is the funniest kpop groip seventeen are the one and only variety masters. i stan many other groups and i see all of you with your "[group] moments leaving all comedians jobless" and let me tell you one thing and thats that those comedians are getting a very handsome paycheck if your idols are their competitors because im not busting a gut. no thats mean point is theyre entertaining and they can be funny but u all build my expectations so high only to get some mid tier silly goosery its okay for your idols to not be funny to everyone okay its gonna be okay

[hydr9]

wait i can post whatever the fuck i want. no one can stop me. i can say all of my unwarranted kpop opinions on here.

[hydr9]

I come on tumblr to talk to myself publicly

[hydr9]

another point onto my self-producing female idols post:

i dont want jyp to just make itzy and nmixx write songs now. i dont want there to be pressure on them, that it's shameful that they don't, or anything like that. itzy and nmixx should be able to do whatever they choose with their music, and for idols, that does not have to mean writing and producing. there are many, many other aspects to being an idol.

from another perspective of mine, i believe this comes from the pure admiration for stray kids that at some point becomes bitterness. cite Brutus by the Buttress. just that whole damn song. "i don't want what you have, i wanna be you."

(another rant/more like a vent under readmore)

i admire them, their dedication, their passion, their music, their performances, obviously i do, and i wouldn't be such a fan if i didn't. but then hits the envy. yes, stray kids worked their fucking asses off to get where they are now, but can we not admit that they have some privilege?

stray kids, like other big jyp groups, is known for having a packed up the fucking wazoo schedule. jyp puts a SHIT TON of funding into stray kids. and do you know why? because jyp trusts them.

i really need to emphasize just how much creative control and liberty stray kids has with their careers. i have yet to find a song by them that does NOT have one of their names cited as a credit. 3racha is credited on damn near every single fucking song they've ever released. EVEN on composing. EVEN on arranging (bang chan you sly dog)

stray kids was FORMED BY BANG CHAN. their concepts were CREATED BY THEM. EVERYTHING was up to them. this is AMAZING! this is a very very very very GOOD thing!!!!

all i'm saying is that this is where i start to get envious. this is where i start to wish we had more. i start to wish that there was a world in which women in the same career had the same playing field, that a company as big as jyp could trust a group of women to do those same things.

bang chan was a trainee for 7 years, and was given the privilege of creating his own group, creating his own future, telling his story. jinni was a trainee for 6, and was put into JYP's failed attempt at an experimental group and left before even hitting the one year anniversary of her debut.

i know bang chan suffered. i know stray kids suffered. i am saying that i mourn women not being given this same freedom. the freedom stray kids had to look for their way, to make unconventional songs that they believed in, to have their own names on every song they put out, and for all this, be able to get the backing of one of the biggest entertainment companies in korea.

g-idle does this, and their only backing is a shit company that steps all over them but only gives them what they need because they are their only money makers. purple kiss aims to do this, and barely gets anywhere near the same amount of input on their music.

this was messy. for the sake of drama i will now put lyrics from the buttress's brutus.

"...or am i just wishing i could be like you? that the people would see me too as a poet, and not just the muse."

"i'll never forget that you showed me to make art, and i know the love you showed me came from a pure and noble heart. i love you, and if you want, i'll call you 'king.' but why do i lie awake each night thinking instead of you, it should be me?"

“what’s more wrong, that i, too, wish to be great, or that my mother wished she’d had a son?”

"what motivates me, hatred, is it love? what's more wrong, that i, too, wish to be great, or my mother wished she'd had a son?"

[hydr9]

you guys dont understand how much im begging begging begging. begging on my hands and KNEES for a jyp to debut a genuinely self-produced girl group.

(rant below the readmore)

let me say this clearly from the start: there is nothing wrong with traditional idol groups. there is nothing wrong with being a (k)pop idol that does not write/produce their own music, and there is nothing wrong with having no desire to.

g-idle is right there yes yes of course they are--point is, there is not only them as female artists who have self-made music and performances they want to put into the world via the idol industry. and g-idle is CONSTANTLY being dragged down into hell by cube.

it doesn't need to be jyp, that's barely even my point here. g-idle are full of talented talented women who have achieved amazing success despite everything that coudlve held them back, but god, their biggest enemy is still clearly their company. constant stories of soyeon fighting for the songs and concepts she wants to be released, mild choreographies, generally terrible working conditions that CANNOT be working in their favor as artists/performers/idols.

purple kiss was marketed as that: a self-produced female idol group. but jesus, rbw, where is the self-producing? where are their writing credits on their titles? their own original ideas? and how can an idol group be self-produced if they're stuck to such a cemented concept for each comeback? is that what they want to be releasing? god knows i love purple kiss and i adore their concept, but that's besides the point here. i always check CCL, check their videos, to see their writing and production credits, and they ARE capable of making good music, *obviously* they are! why would they market them as such anyways? please. these girls have so much potential. i'm not even claiming they're being mistreated here, of course not every idol wants to make their own music, that's not what it's always about, but when it comes to marketing a group as such, how can they come in last as writing credits and have their self-written and self-produced songs be constantly nudged into bsides? their original choreographies like my heart skip a beat?

and jyp. oooooh jyp. you make me so mad. in that japanese skz + park jinyoung interview, JYP explained why stray kids formed the way it did, and let me just use exact quotes here (u can watch vid for everything, credit to STRAY K SUBS on yt for trans).

"we felt like the distance between fans and artists was gradually getting closer. so, it's hard to fool fans now. it's because we saw that it'd be hard to put out something that we planned and packaged nicely. [...] then, in order to show their real selves without any adjustments, we had to make a team that's actually tightly knit and like one body. we came to the conclusion that in order to do that, the company can't organize the members. so we ended up trying that kind of method for the first time."

and how come you went and debuted ITZY and NMIXX with absolutely no hint of these beliefs anywhere?

where is this trust for your female idols? where is this belief in authenticity in your female idols? where is this belief that you can't fool fans anymore?

is it somewhere in the self-love pop itzy sings that they have not even written about themselves?

is it somewhere in the colossal failure of "mixx-pop" that you plastered onto a group of young talented girls and risked their entire career on?

what did you not learn from the massive success of stray kids? what makes JYP think that a group of female artists is not capable of the same thing?

i'm sorry if i sound like i'm ever degrading to other girl groups about this, i promise i don't mean to be. but this subtle and extremely pervasive belief that women are not capable of technical proficiency makes my fucking blood boil. women can write their own lyrics. women can produce their own music. women can arrange their own music if they fucking want to. women are capable of understanding a market, having a message they want to spread, and using the idol industry as their medium.

if stray kids can do it, why the fuck can't any female idol group?

where is the huge amount of funding that goes to stray kids for their constant events, activities, concepts, comebacks, performances, and everything else, going for any other self-producing girl group?

im begging this industry to let women have that kind of freedom.

PS: because i know this wont get any notes but im scared of people missing the point: please god know i love stray kids. i love purple kiss. i love g-idle. and though im not a midzy i have MASSIVE respect for ITZY. and i have so much hope for NMIXX and the talent that those girls have--i only hope for jyp to take their heads out of their asses and truly believe in creativity and innovation, something i dont believe they are doing for NMIXX. i am not trying to bring these groups, or any other groups, down in any way.

PPS: if anything i said here is wrong or you have anything to add, pls do, im very open for discussion on this, it is an important topic to me

[hydr9]

[hydr9]

HARAM / RING MA BELL @ 30TH HANTEO MUSIC AWARDS

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THE END OF THE WORLD AND THE AWAKENING 22.08.25 00:00 AM KST

[hydr9]

suhyeon twitter update.

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suhyeon twitter update.

[hydr9]

211111 ring x ring 🔔 tsuki fancam